STO preview article at IGN.com

[MSG56]

I don't know if anyone has posted this but here is an article from IGN.com. It gives descriptions about their demo at Gamescom.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/101/1016354p1.html

[Vorador]

Exactly what I feared. They mentioned tactical combat so much and it is turning out to be the exact opposite.

[jagerbolt]

Nice read, thanks for the link!

[Rhyder]

Thank you for the link!

[Zepath]

They seem to have the obligatory 'good things' to say, but they don't seem overly impressed do they?

[slingbladez]

nice little introductory preview for people who are unfamiliar with the game. Those who know about it really won't see anything new from it.

[MSG56]

Your right, nothing new but it is nice to hear some out side opinions of the game.

[Varrangian]

They seem to have the obligatory 'good things' to say, but they don't seem overly impressed do they?

No they don't, but I'll be honest the first thing that struck me was the comments about the "bridge view". When they announced that the game would be 3rd person view in space, they didn't tell us that was because the bridge view made it more dogfighter like, but that 3rd person view made it easier to play.

Furthermore if you read their comments they sound like a review of the video we've all seen not like a review of a hands-on game play session.

[Tamgros]

Exactly what I feared. They mentioned tactical combat so much and it is turning out to be the exact opposite.

Furthermore if you read their comments they sound like a review of the video we've all seen not like a review of a hands-on game play session.

Yeah, lots of stuff seems to have been lost on them.

Of course you'll be going faster than a ship on the sea that uses wind as it's only source of power. I think they took the 'tall ship' comparison a bit too far there :rolleyes:

But honestly, it's not much faster than PotBS. It almost sounded like they really had a preconceived notion that the game should play like Bridge Commander, and anything to the contrary meant that it wasn't tactical. "Turn and Burn"? I really don't see how he got that. Jumpage is turn and burn, Black prophecy is turn and burn... Please, get out of here with that weak sauce review.

[Varrangian]

Yeah, lots of stuff seems to have been lost on them.

Of course you'll be going faster than a ship on the sea that uses wind as it's only source of power. I think they took the 'tall ship' comparison a bit too far there :rolleyes:

But honestly, it's not much faster than PotBS. It almost sounded like they really had a preconceived notion that the game should play like Bridge Commander, and anything to the contrary meant that it wasn't tactical. "Turn and Burn"? I really don't see how he got that. Jumpage is turn and burn, Black prophecy is turn and burn... Please, get out of here with that weak sauce review.

I read it again and I honestly believe that they just wrote a review of the trailer being shown.

[Zepath]

No they don't, but I'll be honest the first thing that struck me was the comments about the "bridge view". When they announced that the game would be 3rd person view in space, they didn't tell us that was because the bridge view made it more dogfighter like, but that 3rd person view made it easier to play.

Furthermore if you read their comments they sound like a review of the video we've all seen not like a review of a hands-on game play session.

Well, the thing that people need to remember about these articles ... sometimes they do receive a video, and some PR bullet points and they build their article around that. On some of the less scrupulous sites, they just do a review off the same material and info you and I already have access to.

Its just like the interviews ... a lot (note, not all) of interviews are never face to face. The questions are sent in to the person, they answer them. Then the producer looks them over, PR looks them over, and legal looks them over ... if everyone says they are ok, they get sent back and the publisher publishes it. Sometimes there's a back and fourth (follow up questions) but that's only for the big sites/magazines ... the little guys have to take what they get.

[Tamgros]

I read it again and I honestly believe that they just wrote a review of the trailer being shown.

Well, the thing that people need to remember about these articles ... sometimes they do receive a video, and some PR bullet points and they build their article around that. On some of the less scrupulous sites, they just do a review off the same material and info you and I already have access to.

Its just like the interviews ... a lot (note, not all) of interviews are never face to face. The questions are sent in to the person, they answer them. Then the producer looks them over, PR looks them over, and legal looks them over ... if everyone says they are ok, they get sent back and the publisher publishes it. Sometimes there's a back and fourth (follow up questions) but that's only for the big sites/magazines ... the little guys have to take what they get.

Lol yeah, I looked at both again, and it's pretty evident the author just took the PCGamer article + the trailer, and claimed he had a new and special review. :rolleyes:

[Sorbek]

Nothing new...haven't seen the US PC gamer article but the moment I started reading it felt like the UK PC gamer article.

[Powerhelm]

Yeah it didn't sound like they got much excitement. It sounded more like a "we saw some tech guy do about 10 minutes of gameplay and it looked ok, let's hope they don't screw up." :-/

[Doug3575]

Still it is good to see they are letting the media see more. Let's hope the beta trial provides good feedback and the game becomes awesome. let the trial begin!

[Trekkie]

I didn't think that this article was particularly impressive either considering there was really no ground-breaking information or anything of that sort presented, but at the same time it is nice to hear someone else's opinion (although I do agree that the writer could be a little bit more enthusiastic) while at the same time getting the word out about the game even more. Nothing too special overall though.

[SIMONLEV]

I liked this article and the attitude of the writer can be interpreted differently. Personally i think he was just concerned as am I. This sentence really jumped out at me (in red):

This time around, you'll be relying more on long range weapons and the support of your AI-led crew. You can give them specific orders if you like, or just set general rules of engagement and let the AI handle the specific actions. The combination of various crew specialties and your own captain's skills is likely to allow for lots of tactical variety, but it wasn't clear from our demo that things like posture or position played much of a role in the current build.

It almost sounds like the writer feels this to be important and that after watching the "build" he expected/hoped for it to be included in the next build. Thats just how i see it anyways.

[Zopilote3]

I keep looking for more info than just teasers. the article was nice but nothing new was mentioned. I also felt somewhat of a concern from the writer just trying to stay positive i guess. But with so many star trek games that really dissappointed there a very high expectations of STO. the cover of the magazine looks awesome hopefully i can get my hands on one and check out the posters.

[Lethal2damax]

"Steve Butts" LOL!

[ransomwk]

cryptic doesn't make any sense any more. According to this guy, cryptic thought that "system-focused tactical combat" felt like a dog fighter, to they instead did this skill based fast paced laser light show.....

In trying to make it not feel like a dog fighter, they made it look like a dog fighter.


wtf is cryptic doing? they want to avoid making a dog fighter, so they make a dog fighter with four sided shields and call it "tactical".


sigh (http://raoworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/double-facepalm.jpg)

[Oltwentysix]

Exactly what I feared. They mentioned tactical combat so much and it is turning out to be the exact opposite.

Agreed, this game is beginning to sound worse and worse the more articles are written.

[Conman]

The advantage: seen from the eyes of a seemingly non trek fan was mildly impressed with what he had been shown.

The disadvantage: we need someone to really talk in not just trek terms but trek gamer freak terms indeed just a game freak would do.. the obvious notions of a review like this is we want beta!

is it me or is cryptic bracing its self to fail rather then make a great game? all these things about buy for beta. talk but no more trailers. it seems like they are so scared of the crap we would say they arnt putting out anything but QandAs which dont get me wrong is great and informative but we wont be typing our way through the game its eye candy and space ship pew pew with a healthy dose of trekyness we want.

Where are more pics? Trailers? show some confidence in your product.

on a side note i played CoH for a while and it was fun leveling up but i got bored with the end content and exclusivity of the game making me join a band of teeny boppers. boo to that.. i found a good fed fleet that is dedicated to its expansion into STO. we drool at more info on the game and right now our mouths are dry and we find our selfs forgetting whats coming our way.

Get us excited!

[Vorgse]

First off as a Trekker I have to say... "Proton" torpedoes? This isn't Star Wars Mr. Game-Reviewer, here in THIS galaxy in the not-so-distant future it's "Photon" torpedoes...
(sorry, no one noticed that so far so I had to point that out.)
Second, the 4 sided shields make me sad... I know they don't want the Z-axis to play too much a role but they should still have dorsal and ventral shields. If someone is below you and all power is to your forward shields do your shields protect you or not?
Third, I'm glad they made it 3rd person, whatever the reason. I still play Starfleet Academy regularly and there's nothing enjoyable about hearing your ship get hit by a recently decloaked Bird-of-Prey but not knowing where the shot came from until your chief engineer tells you. Also, anyone who has watched a TNG or later episode of Star Trek knows ALL space battles happen in 3rd person. :p
Next, I'm confused when he said positioning wasn't much a part of this build. When it comes to "Tall Ship Style" fighting as he put it there are 3 enemy positions in relation to your ship; Broadside means both your forward and aft arrays can target and attack; Head-on means your forward arrays can attack(most ships have more forward phasers and torpedoes than aft); Then Flank means you're screwed, sure you have some aft weaponry but that's only to keep you from being undefended.
Finally, as everyone said, they didn't write anything that WE didn't already know, but as members of the STO official community we are pretty much the first to know everything.

[loyaltrekie]

Finally, as everyone said, they didn't write anything that WE didn't already know, but as members of the STO official community we are pretty much the first to know everything.

You are very, very, incorrect. If you meant "we are the first to compile all the information into a central location" then yea maybe, but your statement is full of inaccuracy and fallacy.

[Dr._Sskarno]

I just hope we can change the keymapping. I hate the WASD Keys...

[maxgrimberger]

I'm not very impressed by this "review"...
but then again, it's good that they spread the word.
Didn't sound too critical - the writer seemed to have a "wait and see" attitude.
It's a shame there were no new screenies or something exclusive in the article, though.

[Takaralolita]

I am starting get worried about this game

AWSD controls for StarShip, this sounds way to much like non tatic combat,

I know said combat was not going turn based type, but I am starting to fear about the game i spend last year being very very excited about.

[deadpeon]

I've been following this game ever since Perpetual was developing it. I was happy when they tanked and Cryptic picked it up. I even bought the Champions Online preorder with 6 months pre paid just so I could get into the closed beta. But after reading this article I'm not happy anymore. One of the primary reasons MMO's in general fail is when most of the content is "Instanced". This one aspect actually takes the game out of the MMO genre in my opinion. Whenever you go down to an entire planet and you're alone, or when you are doing a mission in space and once again you're alone it removes the MMO element from the game. It killed Pirates of the burning sea, it killed Conan and others. Star Wars Galaxies and Warcraft have been successful because they didn't instance most of their content. Of course theres going to be some, like raids or special solo content, but to have most of the game instanced is a license to fail. MIght as well just make a stand alone copy with multiplay.

[spskeff2]

IGN reviews on anything never really carried a lot of weight with me. If these people didn't get to see anything beyond a trailer, then its all writer's fluff to me.

PC Gamer, on the other hand, was able to play the game first...and ergo were able to give a [halfway] comprehensive review.

[shadowsafer]

I just hope we can change the keymapping. I hate the WASD Keys...

It's already been confirmed that we can. Unfortunately I can't give you an exact quote, but I'd suggest the 'everything we know about sto' thread to start.

[loyaltrekie]

IGN reviews on anything never really carried a lot of weight with me. If these people didn't get to see anything beyond a trailer, then its all writer's fluff to me.

PC Gamer, on the other hand, was able to play the game first...and ergo were able to give a [halfway] comprehensive review.

Zinc said playable demos behind closed doors for the press IIRC.

[shadowsafer]

I've been following this game ever since Perpetual was developing it. I was happy when they tanked and Cryptic picked it up. I even bought the Champions Online preorder with 6 months pre paid just so I could get into the closed beta. But after reading this article I'm not happy anymore. One of the primary reasons MMO's in general fail is when most of the content is "Instanced". This one aspect actually takes the game out of the MMO genre in my opinion. Whenever you go down to an entire planet and you're alone, or when you are doing a mission in space and once again you're alone it removes the MMO element from the game. It killed Pirates of the burning sea, it killed Conan and others. Star Wars Galaxies and Warcraft have been successful because they didn't instance most of their content. Of course theres going to be some, like raids or special solo content, but to have most of the game instanced is a license to fail. MIght as well just make a stand alone copy with multiplay.

Hmmm.. you're right yes, if most of the content is instanced you're basicly playing a solo game with a chatbox function added to it.
At least you can bring friends with you in the instances and it might feel awkward to 'camp' a key quest ship for respawning but at least you really do play with other people. It's usually at times like this people join groups so they all get the kill and can move on and during those short groups are oppurtinities to make new friends.

I do have to admit though that most mmorpg's I play are more solo played until I get to the higher levels, but you do see people running around all the time. The only times I'm in favour of seeing nobody else is when I'm farming something and don't want the competition. In Aion you can switch channels when a zone is really busy to quickly do your quests and then move back when you want more social contact.

I think it'll be fun to do a lot of grouping with friends in instances though! However to group up with friends you need to make friends first... This is getting paradoxal.

[RowdyDurango]

Instanced? ouch...... I played POTBS and the instances were crap, It really sucks to feel alone with a chat window! Hopefully every instance dosent have the same background like in POTBS lol

But, maybe its not as instanced as the writer makes it sound, hopefully anyways :)

<---- Gonna maintain faith in Cryptic for now :D

[colethodan]

i have faith in cryptic still... im hopeing alot is not instance... or its just sum 1 sayin it is and it spreads like butter as a bad roumor.

Still earlyish times. :)

[Tamgros]

I've been following this game ever since Perpetual was developing it. I was happy when they tanked and Cryptic picked it up. I even bought the Champions Online preorder with 6 months pre paid just so I could get into the closed beta. But after reading this article I'm not happy anymore. One of the primary reasons MMO's in general fail is when most of the content is "Instanced". This one aspect actually takes the game out of the MMO genre in my opinion. Whenever you go down to an entire planet and you're alone, or when you are doing a mission in space and once again you're alone it removes the MMO element from the game. It killed Pirates of the burning sea, it killed Conan and others. Star Wars Galaxies and Warcraft have been successful because they didn't instance most of their content. Of course theres going to be some, like raids or special solo content, but to have most of the game instanced is a license to fail. MIght as well just make a stand alone copy with multiplay.
WoW doesn't have instances? How about every single Raid/dungeon? That's pretty much the same as it was in AoC. And AoC didn't fail because of instancing, lol, that's a ridiculous statement. In fact, AoC is seeing a pretty nice rebound lately because the fixed many of the problems. Part of this was adding about 15 NEW instances since release.. And Aion is zone instanced just like AoC. Aion is already quite popular.

I think instances are some of the most underrated tools an MMO can use. Especially when you consider that this is an MMO in space. You should feel alone some of the time (or at least alone with your group). That, and you can really craft content to people and make the universe evolve in a story if the story is instanced. (though I do agree that things like territory/resource control, PvP and exploration shouldn't be as instanced)

Open worlds create stupid PvE situations with kill stealing, NPC respawns, storylines that make sense (wait, why is that guy here, and wth is he doing?).

STO has it so you can group in EVERY aspect of gameplaly and invite any level/rank player to join you in a mission, at any time. Think about it. Open worlds aren't all they are cracked up to be

IGN reviews on anything never really carried a lot of weight with me. If these people didn't get to see anything beyond a trailer, then its all writer's fluff to me.

PC Gamer, on the other hand, was able to play the game first...and ergo were able to give a [halfway] comprehensive review.

Yes, clearly PC Gamer got to play the game and has more info. I hold their review in much higher regard.

EDIT:
I recommend the instance lovers to read this:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24302

[Kulnar]

well... like when eve online came out.. there was a lot of things you where missing :) when wow came out there was a lot of things missing.. when COH,COV, and like 99.9% of all mmo games there comes out there will be things missing we have to rember that it is a working progress :) the will keep building new things for the game.. so it migh look like this now.. but lets say year 1 efter release it can look a hole other way :) i think cryp is doing a super job (hate the thing about byeing a beta key, but the need money) but i think there giving all way to "little" info out :P we want somthing to make us get hot dreams about :)

(sorry for my bad english)

Best regarts
Kulnar

[dapaglia]

For most [ground based] MMOs, I would agree that instancing is counter-multiplayer. However, for a space based games such as star trek, it would appear appropriate. People may think it is bad in an MMO to not see anyone around you, and only have a chat window to indicate that there are other players, and I agree. But if you are at a remote system doing research, I would completely expect to be the only ship around, and have only a comm connection (i.e, chat window) as my link to the rest of starfleet. Instancing gives you that feel even though there may be numerous people running that same mission.

Space is huge in comparison with the number of space ships and personnel, and is often lonely (which is quintessential star trek). A traditional, non-instanced MMO will not give you that feel.

[Levry]

There a lot of golf left to be played, but still like what I've read so far.

[Vorgse]

You are very, very, incorrect. If you meant "we are the first to compile all the information into a central location" then yea maybe, but your statement is full of inaccuracy and fallacy.

Forgiveness please, I thought everyone was beyond such technicalities. Also I suppose it was my fault for assuming that people actually read information about the upcoming game on the official site and not just the forums. My bad. :p

[Teleri]

Here's the video played for GamesCon audiences in Germany. :D


http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency

[Cruis.In]

i think a perfect balance of instancing and open play is what is required.

the way they are designing it borrows a bit from the show. missions begin like episodes, they take place on the ground, they basically have a beginning, middle and end.

if your doing a mission you cant have people coming in and shooting up the place going ahahah pwned, etc etc.

instancing is for grouping etc. you can be traveling through sector see another ship, group up and tackle a mission together, this play alone/chat box thing is being blown out of proportion.

and also a good reason why they dont like showing off such previews. people jump to stupid conclusions wayyyy before release.

the space combat still looks shakey. but theyve got months to polish.

[tazdax]

i think a perfect balance of instancing and open play is what is required.

the way they are designing it borrows a bit from the show. missions begin like episodes, they take place on the ground, they basically have a beginning, middle and end.

if your doing a mission you cant have people coming in and shooting up the place going ahahah pwned, etc etc.

instancing is for grouping etc. you can be traveling through sector see another ship, group up and tackle a mission together, this play alone/chat box thing is being blown out of proportion.

and also a good reason why they dont like showing off such previews. people jump to stupid conclusions wayyyy before release.

the space combat still looks shakey. but theyve got months to polish.


I agree we need balance with instancing and open play. Although the video showed mostly combat and combat can be fun, I also like to explore, customize my environment, socialize, solve mysteries, etc etc.

[jer08k2]

Here's the video played for GamesCon audiences in Germany. :D


http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency

Okay lol is anyone else laughing when you say how the ground combat was? I mean really, how they walk, how they fight. Why do people have shields around them? And a klingon went up to a officer and hit him 5 times with a bath' leth and he didn't die, he shot the klingon and he died. Worst Ground Combat I've seen in a while. For the ship combat, wow. Wow as in wtf is this? Its stupid, I mean really.I mean I know there is still a year of work but i mean really guys come one!

[NyQuil]

Another lackluster update and a sub par review. This is not tactical combat. Way too fast for that. They introduce WASD controls and say it's NOT a dogfighter? Come on, man. Star Wwars: TOR is looking so much better now. Guess we just have to wait and see. Cryptic, you have an opportunity here!!! A big one!! Just make the most of it and stop looking at it like a cash cow. It's not important to just establish a revenue stream for the near future. you gotta look at the big picture and right now, doesn't look like you are. I hope you guys don't mess this up. It would be a real shame and would set Star Trek gaming right back to square one. Anyone remember how good the Interplay games were? I do. Let's get that feeling back in the game.

[GozerTC]

If they're reviewing the sped up combat in the video I can see why they could call it turn and burn and not tactical. If it's slower in game like folks in the video said mentioned it'll be more like what we want. Who knows though? :\

I look forward to the PC gamer review, hopefully they got to see the Alpha and not just the videos.

As for Ground combat I sure hope they add more to it then the City of Heroes fighting that we saw in the video. :(

[Crowtac]

Mmm After viewing that video I'm kinda thinking I might need a Xbox 360 controller in my hands rather that my beloved mouse and keyboard. Say NO to dumb downed versions and put the Tact back into Tactical!

[Teleri]

Okay lol is anyone else laughing when you say how the ground combat was? I mean really, how they walk, how they fight. Why do people have shields around them? And a klingon went up to a officer and hit him 5 times with a bath' leth and he didn't die, he shot the klingon and he died. Worst Ground Combat I've seen in a while. For the ship combat, wow. Wow as in wtf is this? Its stupid, I mean really.I mean I know there is still a year of work but i mean really guys come one!


I wasn't so disappointed by the video, but I will admit that it'll be interesting to see how ship combat really feels (WASD? Really? I'm used to the mouse control of EVE.... but for all I know WASD could serve STO well.)

It's important to mention the main point of this video is to feature combat, both on and off ship. When featuring combat in a game trailer, the emphasis ends up being to make the game look "intense." This is done by using such cinematic tactics as a constantly moving camera angle, many short clips of highly populated battles, and possibly even sped up game speed.

Point being: I think it's safe to say this trailer isn't entirely indicative of how the game will feel, and in my personal opinion I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, when have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek this "Intense"? I'm excited to explore, study, and make first contact!

[Peteromir]

Theres a IGN video from GC to not sure if its the same as the youtube one.
http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14270158/star-trek-online/videos/gcom09_startrek_trl_082009.html

edit: it is but alot clearer

[Fester]

the space combat looks like crap. When they call bridge commander a dog fight game, they must not have played it. Rotating your ship so you can absorb torpedoes with your strongest shields (they have six in BC) and targeting the right ship systems and regulating power to your shields, sensors, weapons and engines is not a dog fighter. Maybe they only ever played the game from the bridge and never went to 3rd person. Or online against seasoned players. BC is free online with great ship combat I doubt this will win me over after all.
Ive been following this game since it was just a rumor from perpetual and now its letting me down.

[SovWell]

Its about time.... why do you put up the video now when it was published from an indepindant source days before this here. Maybe you were hold out on us for some reasons and now was forced to release it??? Come on folks... lets get down to the point your media department is slacking on PR. You need to get hyper on all of this.

[Tokoth]

the space combat looks like crap. When they call bridge commander a dog fight game, they must not have played it. Rotating your ship so you can absorb torpedoes with your strongest shields (they have six in BC) and targeting the right ship systems and regulating power to your shields, sensors, weapons and engines is not a dog fighter. Maybe they only ever played the game from the bridge and never went to 3rd person. Or online against seasoned players. BC is free online with great ship combat I doubt this will win me over after all.
Ive been following this game since it was just a rumor from perpetual and now its letting me down.

BC is free online and it's legal? Please share where that is so I can pick it up. I miss BC greatly! :D

[commanderholdan13]

Okay, me... being me... i didn't like this review at all.... for one it sounds like he just took what we have already seen and done a dumb review about what we already know.... (duh its going to be 3rd person we've seen pictures of space battles and ships warping around IN 3RD PERSON!) whats worse is i bet this review guy isn't even a trek fan... seriously..? I didn't like his attitude torward it... it was the "wait and see" type attitude mentioned earlier... i don't like that. so because of this guy's no trek-ness i still have a small glimer of hope that the game wont be a complete fail... I think it will still be amazing... everyone is still forgeting about the other things that we are looking forward to... i for one am looking forward to exploring the ship, being able to role play, being able to customizing the ship to fit me, and also the bridge crew. Let us not give up hope yet... =/

[Peteromir]

the space combat looks like crap. When they call bridge commander a dog fight game, they must not have played it. Rotating your ship so you can absorb torpedoes with your strongest shields (they have six in BC) and targeting the right ship systems and regulating power to your shields, sensors, weapons and engines is not a dog fighter. Maybe they only ever played the game from the bridge and never went to 3rd person. Or online against seasoned players. BC is free online with great ship combat I doubt this will win me over after all.
Ive been following this game since it was just a rumor from perpetual and now its letting me down.

You missundrestood, the said a first person view like Bridge Commanders made THEIR game feel too like a dogfighter NOT BC felt like one. A bit of reading comprehension goes along way.

[Banar]

Its about time.... why do you put up the video now when it was published from an indepindant source days before this here. Maybe you were hold out on us for some reasons and now was forced to release it??? Come on folks... lets get down to the point your media department is slacking on PR. You need to get hyper on all of this.

It's not "slacking"... it was wholly intentional. They no doubt have deals with the conventions and sites to give them an exclusive before putting anything on this site. That's how marketing works.

People need to actually read the threads and all the information on them before posting about how it looks like a dogfighter. The videos speed was increased. Even so, this looks a lot like what combat in DS9 and Voyager looked like most of the time.

And people wonder why Cryptic has not released more videos and information. Everyone whines about how it doesn't look perfect, never mind how detailed and beautiful most of it looks. This is an ALPHA build of the game, of course there are problems and gaps and tweaking that needs to be done. People jump to conclusions much to easily without first thinking logically about the situation.

I'm sorry for the rant but seriously this is getting a bit ridiculous.

[Evi1Genius]

Visuals and textures are great but the depth and scale seemed wrong. The explosions should be bigger, brighter and last a lot longer. The transition of deleting ships and replacing them with explosions is a bit tacky and it should not be noticeable.

Where are the shaders? The reflected lighting on the ships is the wrong color, it cant be just white it should match the environment the ships are in. If the sun is purple then the ships should reflect purple. I'm nitpicking this because i experimented with lighting effects before and I know its not difficult...unless DirectX is not being used. Space games made over 5 years ago even achieved that; Nexus, "Earth and Beyond(RIP)" to name a few.

Ground combat is like in-ur-face combat, give them some space...

This game needs a lot more work like 2 more years?
Visuals are great tho.

[Acidrain]

As usual, IGN just rehashes the same sh!t that other sites have reviewed or done an preview!

[Banar]

As usual, IGN just rehashes the same sh!t that other sites have reviewed or done an preview!

And with even less insight.

[Southpaw007]

Man what a let down....."Most of the combat/situations will be instanced, but social hubs blah blah blah.."

I think the key part of most mmos is an open ended world not tons of instanced small ones.

Was really looking forward to just cruising around and seeing people battling npcs.

[Tokoth]

Man what a let down....."Most of the combat/situations will be instanced, but social hubs blah blah blah.."

I think the key part of most mmos is an open ended world not tons of instanced small ones.

Was really looking forward to just cruising around and seeing people battling npcs.

Ugggg.. Believe me I understand that MMO's are primarily social games... but think about Star Trek for a bit. I don't think there is a single episode that would be a good example of 500 starships gathered round a planet with each one waiting to beam down their carbon copy of the Federation negotiator for the same trade talk mediation.

I think the happy medium would be that instanced content is accessed through a mission start point, but otherwise, there is a large and persistant galaxy that can just be traveled with other players. There should be random encounter chances in the persistant world, as well as pvp zones.

I however do want my missions instanced. I don't want to arrive at Theta Epsilon IV only to find I have to wait for an hour because there are 4 groups there ahead of me for the same mission.

Seriously, when I was playing LOTRO, encountering others outside of social hubs was more a pain in the a$$ than a chance to chat. Everyone uses the global chat, zone chat, class chat,. or private chat windows for banter anyway.. so I'm not sure exactly how much is truely lost by instancing missions unless your a griefer. And I do not give a crud about a griefers game enjoyment.

[Kulnar]

It's not "slacking"... it was wholly intentional. They no doubt have deals with the conventions and sites to give them an exclusive before putting anything on this site. That's how marketing works.

People need to actually read the threads and all the information on them before posting about how it looks like a dogfighter. The videos speed was increased. Even so, this looks a lot like what combat in DS9 and Voyager looked like most of the time.

And people wonder why Cryptic has not released more videos and information. Everyone whines about how it doesn't look perfect, never mind how detailed and beautiful most of it looks. This is an ALPHA build of the game, of course there are problems and gaps and tweaking that needs to be done. People jump to conclusions much to easily without first thinking logically about the situation.

I'm sorry for the rant but seriously this is getting a bit ridiculous.


Mate I just love your post :) it says all there is neede to say :) so ppl think before typing :P all mmo´s ever made have been remaked like 10b times :P and for a ALPHA this one looks cool.. and i say ****ing good job cryptic

[Southpaw007]

Ugggg.. Believe me I understand that MMO's are primarily social games... but think about Star Trek for a bit. I don't think there is a single episode that would be a good example of 500 starships gathered round a planet with each one waiting to beam down their carbon copy of the Federation negotiator for the same trade talk mediation.

I think the happy medium would be that instanced content is accessed through a mission start point, but otherwise, there is a large and persistant galaxy that can just be traveled with other players. There should be random encounter chances in the persistant world, as well as pvp zones.

I however do want my missions instanced. I don't want to arrive at Theta Epsilon IV only to find I have to wait for an hour because there are 4 groups there ahead of me for the same mission.

Seriously, when I was playing LOTRO, encountering others outside of social hubs was more a pain in the a$$ than a chance to chat. Everyone uses the global chat, zone chat, class chat,. or private chat windows for banter anyway.. so I'm not sure exactly how much is truely lost by instancing missions unless your a griefer. And I do not give a crud about a griefers game enjoyment.

Wow please jump to more conclusions. Its not reference to chatting. I don't run up to everyone i see in life and start a conversation, its not about chat its about interaction. If i see someone in trouble or that wants to accomplish the same thing I don't want to have to say "Looking for group to do mission x" only to wait for no response or do it over and over.

The only time I have ever run into large amounts of people for something in the wild so to speak in an MMO is at launch or when brand new content is released and even then its more of a bring people interact thing than a grief session.

Instancing always seems to give a solo quality to a game. I enjoy soloing and do it in most any mmo ive played, but I don't want another EVE where interaction was limited to corp/guild/global chat and a flying by someone at a warp point or space station.

I was hoping this game would be more along the lines of warp to system x that is a vast area with alot to explore. Not warp to this instance then another. That's the picture they paint and the paint smells like poop........enjoy the smell.

[Tokoth]

Wow please jump to more conclusions. Its not reference to chatting. I don't run up to everyone i see in life and start a conversation, its not about chat its about interaction. If i see someone in trouble or that wants to accomplish the same thing I don't want to have to say "Looking for group to do mission x" only to wait for no response or do it over and over.

The only time I have ever run into large amounts of people for something in the wild so to speak in an MMO is at launch or when brand new content is released and even then its more of a bring people interact thing than a grief session.

Instancing always seems to give a solo quality to a game. I enjoy soloing and do it in most any mmo ive played, but I don't want another EVE where interaction was limited to corp/guild/global chat and a flying by someone at a warp point or space station.

I was hoping this game would be more along the lines of warp to system x that is a vast area with alot to explore. Not warp to this instance then another. That's the picture they paint and the paint smells like poop........enjoy the smell.

While it has happened, I rarely have a fight going that someone just randomly runs up and helps me through a tough patch for the love of the game. If that's what you do and what you enjoy, then more power to you.

What I find overwhelmingly more prevelent (in my own experience) is that the people who say instancing kills interaction as the same people who swoop in and try to steal loot, or wait until a mob is almost dead before attacking to take the experience/quest reward. These are the people I tend to call griefers, and I've seen some get an entire evenings enjoyment out of tormenting other players in a lower level area of a game. This 'interaction' i can do without.

I guess it's all about what you want to get out of a game. Personally I'm liking what I'm hearing about STO, but it's still WAY to early to make vast assumptions one way or the other. I need to see how it comes together before I say it 'smells like poop' as you so eloquently put it.

[Fester]

BC is free online and it's legal? Please share where that is so I can pick it up. I miss BC greatly! :D

I didn't say legal lol, plenty of stable torrents out there. the online play is FREE and that's what i was referring too. No monthly payments to play against other players.

[Fester]

You missundrestood, the said a first person view like Bridge Commanders made THEIR game feel too like a dogfighter NOT BC felt like one. A bit of reading comprehension goes along way.

Actually they have said several times in the past that they have looked at other games which only make ship combat feel like dog fights (any idiot can deduce that BC was one of those games) and that they didn't want that for this one. A little knowledge of what they have been saying for a long time also goes a long way.

[carnagefiend]

cryptic doesn't make any sense any more. According to this guy, cryptic thought that "system-focused tactical combat" felt like a dog fighter, to they instead did this skill based fast paced laser light show.....

In trying to make it not feel like a dog fighter, they made it look like a dog fighter.


wtf is cryptic doing? they want to avoid making a dog fighter, so they make a dog fighter with four sided shields and call it "tactical".


sigh (http://raoworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/double-facepalm.jpg)

Yeah! Man, makes me wonder why they're making a game in the first place.

It's not like they're some game developing company with long term experience with the MMO market.

Sheesh, the nerve!

[Elta_and_Zletha]

I don't know if anyone noticed on that video, but if you freeze at time index 4:19 you clearly see the registery on the galaxy class refit is USS Enterprise NCC 1701- D.

But they're programmers, so someone just put that in there for giggles. =)

*Zletha drools over video*

[Takaralolita]

While it has happened, I rarely have a fight going that someone just randomly runs up and helps me through a tough patch for the love of the game. If that's what you do and what you enjoy, then more power to you.

What I find overwhelmingly more prevelent (in my own experience) is that the people who say instancing kills interaction as the same people who swoop in and try to steal loot, or wait until a mob is almost dead before attacking to take the experience/quest reward. These are the people I tend to call griefers, and I've seen some get an entire evenings enjoyment out of tormenting other players in a lower level area of a game. This 'interaction' i can do without.

I guess it's all about what you want to get out of a game. Personally I'm liking what I'm hearing about STO, but it's still WAY to early to make vast assumptions one way or the other. I need to see how it comes together before I say it 'smells like poop' as you so eloquently put it.

Greifing can be fun, not to stage where ruins someone else game, but killing someone a few times and having PVP battles with them or just killing them our right is actualy fun. yes there are those who take it too far but most time PVP and Greifing is part of MMO's. for some people PVP is what makes MMO's for others its not. but i hope they will make servers when PVP is totaly open, not faction based and could happen anywhere, for me thats what make space. I could bump into alien vessle and it could attack me, player or AI controled. I want that fear. yes for some thats not what they want and respect that. thats why having few diffrent types of servers normaly is the answer.

As for Instance based,

well first Instance based games are ok but there need to be balance. normaly instances are there to help server hardware. I.e its alot easyer and less Proccess demanding having instances rather than one big hub. Instances also give that solo or small group element to games. where its just you or you and friends v a Dungeon or Instance. I get what people are saying about flying about Galaxy and seeing 200 ships all doing same mission, but there another trick to help deal with that and thats Server size. smaller population caps make that less likely to happen. but then it can make server seem empty.

This problem with most new MMO's its balance between Server Hardware costs, Server population and still making it feel like MMO. AOC did try and do Public Instances. where only 100 people where allowed in one instance then the server would create another. so it never felt overcrowed but still bumped into other people. so this could be way that Cyptic has gone. so you might not be totaly alone, but with just small pubic instances.

So right now i am holding futher judgement until I actualy get to play the game. My biggest fear right now, is that game seems more focused on Combat and StarShip dog fighting. were yes it part of StarTrek. I think for me and alot others out there, it the abbilty to think outside box and come up with other ways of resolving conflict or solving problems.

[naynayz]

I have to admit that today I am ashamed of portions of the STO community that whine so much on here. They gave us more video and Cryptic, I liked it and thank you for sharing the video footage period. Please don't let the haters on here dampen your spirits, the game will be a success.

This thread has gone from people blaming cryptic because "this guy says this" to people comparing SW Galaxies to the same level of success as WOW. That is such a lie and downright uneducated thing to say. But to each his own. But I know SW Galaxies never had WOW's numbers. Then we have people saying that the video is lackluster. Please think before you speak on here! It is an ALPHA build of the game (like other have said but were drowned out by more drones of hate).

*deep breath* and back to the loving place....

I think that cryptic has done a great job, I am happy to have got the CO pre-order/ 6 month sub and think that cryptic's success will be soon at hand. Then none of the haters will matter anymore because the numbers will speak for themselves.

LOVE TO CRYPTIC NOT HATE!!!

Peace ;)

[erriku]

Theres a IGN video from GC to not sure if its the same as the youtube one.
http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14270158/star-trek-online/videos/gcom09_startrek_trl_082009.html

edit: it is but alot clearer

Thanks for the link. I am actually very excited about the game now that I saw how the ship combat is. I was afraid it would have been much slower than that. It is very easy to see how a wider range of people will want to play it not just the hardcore fans, which is what I was afraid of if the ship combat was too slow. Very nice Cryptic. You got my subscription for sure.

P.S. Some of those ships were taking one hell of an @$$ beating. Very fun to watch. So was the part about the Federation toon sweep kicking the Klingon and unloading phaser fire on him.

[Draconianknight]

You guys really need to quit complaining about what you don't know. Cryptic will only release information as they see fit. The rest is purely speculation. Also I am sure that they are doing their absolute best to produce a quality game that is (and this is key) fun to play. I am also sure that they are limited in somethings that they can do because of who actually owns the rights to the Star Trek verse.
Some of you may not 100% approve of the ground combat, admitedly I would like to see something where posture and cover play a part. Ranged heals seem a bit WoW or Evercrackish. But hey it's a GAME!!
One that I am looking forward to. Quit *****ing or just leave in my opinon.:cool:

[Takaralolita]

You guys really need to quit complaining about what you don't know. Cryptic will only release information as they see fit. The rest is purely speculation. Also I am sure that they are doing their absolute best to produce a quality game that is (and this is key) fun to play. I am also sure that they are limited in somethings that they can do because of who actually owns the rights to the Star Trek verse.
Some of you may not 100% approve of the ground combat, admitedly I would like to see something where posture and cover play a part. Ranged heals seem a bit WoW or Evercrackish. But hey it's a GAME!!
One that I am looking forward to. Quit *****ing or just leave in my opinon.:cool:

I think some people are just posting there views on IGN reviews and what they seen so far. I don;t see that neg thing. I see them saying how they feel about what been said and what they have been showen. I hope people keep posting there feelings and views on things. just because there neg does not mean there not valid. I am sure Cryptic are big enought to realise people are just airing there views. thats point of forums is for those who want say something to say something.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Quit *****ing or just leave in my opinon.:cool:

You first ;)

[Nalo]

The actual graphics on the game like fine, but the gameplay motion graphics look cheap and sceatchy. Hopefully they will have a more polished version at the luanch date. What do U thank?

[erriku]

The actual graphics on the game like fine, but the gameplay motion graphics look cheap and sceatchy. Hopefully they will have a more polished version at the luanch date. What do U thank?

I believe they will. This is just a non-playable demo after all. If my knowledge is correct, they haven't even started the closed beta yet (correct me if I'm wrong). I have watched the IGN demo a few times and every single time I do, I become more excited for the game to be released.

[Kriss]

For most [ground based] MMOs, I would agree that instancing is counter-multiplayer. However, for a space based games such as star trek, it would appear appropriate. People may think it is bad in an MMO to not see anyone around you, and only have a chat window to indicate that there are other players, and I agree. But if you are at a remote system doing research, I would completely expect to be the only ship around, and have only a comm connection (i.e, chat window) as my link to the rest of starfleet. Instancing gives you that feel even though there may be numerous people running that same mission.

Space is huge in comparison with the number of space ships and personnel, and is often lonely (which is quintessential star trek). A traditional, non-instanced MMO will not give you that feel.

If you use your own logic, then you don't "need" instances if space is that huge.
It is just like EVE. In the Core Space you have the concentrated player base. You can have anywhere from 1 or 2 others in the same system as you up upwards of 800 or 1000 in the major trading hubs.

Or you can be out in the null-sec space and not see anyone fly by for 4 or more hours. If space is really that big then you don't need instances. And besides, why the hell would you make an MMO and then SEPARATE all the players from each other for half or more of the game? It just ludicrous to even think about it.

MMO= Massive MULTIPLAYER. It does not mean instanced-see someone if you are lucky- game. If its multiplayer I expect to see multiple players! Thats why I am paying my monthly fee. If you want a single player game then they need to make a single player game!

[erriku]

I just got done watching the IGN demo and I noticed something at 4:07. It seems as though the Romulan warbird dropped something after exploding. Just caught my eye. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[Tokoth]

Greifing can be fun, not to stage where ruins someone else game, but killing someone a few times and having PVP battles with them or just killing them our right is actualy fun. yes there are those who take it too far but most time PVP and Greifing is part of MMO's. for some people PVP is what makes MMO's for others its not. but i hope they will make servers when PVP is totaly open, not faction based and could happen anywhere, for me thats what make space. I could bump into alien vessle and it could attack me, player or AI controled. I want that fear. yes for some thats not what they want and respect that. thats why having few diffrent types of servers normaly is the answer.

PVP, or just playing the game as you mention is fun, killing someone and then camping their spawn point to deny them game play for any amount of time is not fun. It's just plain mean, but there are groups of bullys everywere.. whatch'a going to do.

I'll just leave it at I'm completely pleased with what I have heard come from Cryptic thus far, and I can't wait to get into the game and start trying to tear it apart during CB.

[AtomicNerd]

Hey at about 1:17 is the a fight between Fed ships and Cardassian Galor class ships?

[Sythian]

As most have already noticed, from the trailer and from what is being view by this review's author, it would seem that the so called tactical combat being touted looks alot like the combat from ST:Legacy. WASD slower paced dogfight and less of a tall ship style combat from like SFC.

This is basically what I'm getting out of these reviews.

[NyQuil]

A good update would be nice. Perhaps a posting of the video on the website from the conference. Thanks Cryptic!

[Doug3575]

Here's the video played for GamesCon audiences in Germany. :D


http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency


Thanks for the video link. I think it will give some of the people here hope it is going to be a great game.

[Acidrain]

As most have already noticed, from the trailer and from what is being view by this review's author, it would seem that the so called tactical combat being touted looks alot like the combat from ST:Legacy. WASD slower paced dogfight and less of a tall ship style combat from like SFC.

This is basically what I'm getting out of these reviews.


You know iam thinking the same thing as well, i had just thought it was me!

[DouglasKinnaman]

Just read the PC Gamer preview. Much better than the IGN version, imo. More informative and with enough humor to make it a fun read.

Seems like mission content and story arch/level advancement would dictate whether or not to use instances. Some missions you would want (need) instanced, perhaps special missions critical to learning specific skills required for accessing new starships, but not every single mission should require one. A balanced approach would give the game a broader appeal.

[Vorgse]

As most have already noticed, from the trailer and from what is being view by this review's author, it would seem that the so called tactical combat being touted looks alot like the combat from ST:Legacy. WASD slower paced dogfight and less of a tall ship style combat from like SFC.

IDK about ST:Legacy but I've been told it was a glorified version of STA. If that's true I can see where you all are getting at with the demo. However, there were a few small details that showed they kept the tactical part as high as they could without putting you to sleep with 10 min. 1v1 battles. They kept the strategic ship angling, it looks like when you're at certain angles multiple phaser banks and torpedo tubes can fire on your taget at the same time. That's like they told us it would be.
Some things I didn't like: It looked like some of those ships could turn on a dime regardless of speed; at about 1:25 that ship was firing on those cardassians from way to long of a range for anthing other than a Nebula Class' tricobalt torpedoes; and finally where are the shield impact graphics? If a certain shield generator is down or weakening I want to be able to tell!

[cylon8]

not for nothing you know what I'm getting tired of..the constant misinformed ghetoric going on here and the comparison to frankly some of the most boring mmo's I've ever played. Eve sucks, I'm sorry but the 500k people who play that game have an inordinate amount of time on their hands to just sit around mining and looting. The space combat sucks. Drawn out tactical combat would make sto a snore and would deter casual gamers, the ones with alot of disposable incomes that will prop up this game. Frankly what I saw is exactly what I was hoping for and frankly for something that still has a yr to go in development it looks great. I've said it before, if all the naysayers on here can do better go found your own company, secure funding and staff and make your own damn game...otherwise keep your opinions to yourself:mad:

[xcess]

"The majority of content in Star Trek Online will be instanced"

:(
nuff said...