Cryptic: Please Tell Us There is More Than Combat and Action!

[JoeTheEngineer]

Seriously, all we have been seeing in all the gameplay videos, including the new one from Gamecon which those of you who are new can check out in a recent thread, and all the preview articles are centered on combat, both space and ground.

I am not against combat being in STO. Neither am I against it being present in a major way.

But Cryptic is remaining close-lipped on other aspects of STO which I am looking forward too, including the exploration, diplomacy, and socialization aspects.

Where are the exploration information? Do we gain experience points be exploring an uncharted region of space? Do we gain knowledge or skills or tools by initiating first contact with a alien race? Can we meet up with friends at a Space Station and hang out and order drinks? Can I hang out at Starfleet Academy? Are there vacation spots like Risa where one can just chill?

What are the non-combat solutions to problems?

Where is the peaceful and enlightened aspect of STO, that needs to be drawn from the source material.

Too much of what I have seen in kill, kill, kill!

Star Trek games have never had the opportunity to really live up to Star Trek until this MMORPG, and I hope Cryptic lives up to the potential of the IP, instead of using it to skin a standard MMO.

[Paulo999]

when you want to show off Combat is normally the thing that grabs everyones attention.. that or the womenz :O

What are the non-combat solutions to problems?

Get your mate to destroy them :O easy peasy :D

[Anichent]

AMEN! Show us gameplay footage of a noncombat mission. Or at least describe the non-combat missions.

I want to be comfortable with the non-combat. Even if this wasn't Star Trek, non-combat missions and entertainment is very important

[Varrangian]

I heard there was a three hour video on non-combat missions. It was all a bunch of complaining and whining... no wait sorry, I was thinking of these forums.

[Anichent]

I heard there was a three hour video on non-combat missions. It was all a bunch of complaining and whining... no wait sorry, I was thinking of these forums.

To remind you of something YOU once said

Just leave, walk away and don't participate in the forums if you just want to whine and compain about other people :)

[Varrangian]

To remind you of something YOU once said

Just leave, walk away and don't participate in the forums if you just want to whine and compain about other people :)

I'm not complaining about the product. Do you not see the difference?

[Anichent]

I'm not complaining about the product. Do you not see the difference?

I see the difference, AND the similarity. I see you constantly whining and complaining about people.

The important difference? People complain cuz they want something else and offer suggestions....also called constructive criticism. You complain because you enjoy bothering people.

So here's some constructive criticism: Stop trolling

[LordDave]

Well if they did that it would be a 3 min. video of nothing but a ship moving. Or people walking.

To put it simply: it's a waste of time to make it. The audience that wants to see that stuff is a small fraction of the people who want to see a video. And if your a PR person and have to choose between sending out a 3 min. video of walking/flying and nothing else OR a 3 min. video of action designed to draw people in... which are you gonna pick?

(ps. No one is ever drawn in to basic flying/walking videos).

[Varrangian]

I see the difference, AND the similarity. I see you constantly whining and complaining about people.

The important difference? People complain cuz they want something else and offer suggestions....also called constructive criticism. You complain because you enjoy bothering people.

So here's some constructive criticism: Stop trolling

Yes calling me a troll is very constructive. :rolleyes:

I see plenty of good constructive criticism offered here everyday, and then I see stamping of feet happen every time the next "issue" gets brought up.

Yeah I enjoy bothering people, that's why I make threads like this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24693) , this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24577), this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24441), or this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24333).

[bjwalle1]

I have a very funny feeling that this is going to be a great game, including non-combat stuff too.

I see it this way, the way this game is going to have an edge over other MMO's is the exploration aspect, and constantly changing Universe.

I think that the reason they are focusing on explaining combat so much is because it seems to be the most asked about topic. That or Cryptic does not want to give away to much of the story line or the special features of the game. Kinda like giving their competitors information on their secret projects. They need to keep a bit of privacy pollicy on that information until they decide it is safe to reveal. Copyright wise or what not.. They dont want people to copy their concepts before it is produced and copyrights secured.

Not bussiness like for them to give too much info out, cuz it seems to me the fewer bones they throw to us the more desparate the community gets to buy the game.

[loyaltrekie]

Watching a video about combat is entertaining and insightful; watching a video about talking and selecting responses on screen, not so much. The quality of threads around here has definitely reduced over the months.

[Manta2015]

I'll nitpick about details myself, but I think it's common sense that a combat trailer just like the one we just saw is ten times more practical to attract audiences than selecting exploration options as LT just mentioned ~

We've had an introduction video, a character creation video and now a combat video. They have to finalize the UI to really elaborate on a video for science and exploration, so it's obviously one of the last things we'll see before release.


-Manta-

[Rgoodfel]

Combat makes a more action packed trialer than doing a diplomatic mission. I am not suprised they don't show that aspect of the game to try to get excitment for the game up. We will see if they MMO feels Star Trek enough in due time.

[JoeTheEngineer]

Combat makes a more action packed trialer than doing a diplomatic mission. I am not suprised they don't show that aspect of the game to try to get excitment for the game up. We will see if they MMO feels Star Trek enough in due time.

People people. I am nots saying they should make a 3 minutes video of people walking around or ships just flying around.

But I would like to see Cryptic put some emphasis on the non-combat aspects of STO. At least more emphasis then they are doing right now, which is ZERO. This is causing me anxiety about what to expect in STO.

[loyaltrekie]

People people. I am nots saying they should make a 3 minutes video of people walking around or ships just flying around.

But I would like to see Cryptic put some emphasis on the non-combat aspects of STO. At least more emphasis then they are doing right now, which is ZERO. This is causing me anxiety about what to expect in STO.


Maybe you are not reading user and developer comments clearly enough. They have already said multiple times that there will be loads of "non-combatish" systems in the game; diplomacy, exploration, etc. Not seeing it in a video, is not proof that it doesn't exist. Or maybe quite possibly you are missing the point of a "teaser trailer", they are meant to draw a crowd and "wow" you.

This trailer did what it was meant to do. A video of someone walking around clicking "No don't kill" or something of that sort won't draw nearly as large as a crowd would; as the sound of a photon torpedo, red alert and ships being destroyed. Its quite simple.

What you want to say is; "I sure do hope they do some developer walkthroughs that explain some of the game systems to us!". Since even if they did do a video about "non-combatish" things; it would be better done in a interview/walkthrough/demo rather then in a trailer.

TL;DR action = crowd gathering tooll ; talking/interacting not so much.

[Flatfingers]

For what it's worth, please note that only part of the first sentence of JoeTheEngineer's post was clearly about Cryptic "showing" us non-combat content through a video.

The rest -- including the thread's subject title -- was about Cryptic "telling" us something about non-combat content. That doesn't require waiting for a video. It simply requires that someone has actually worked on some kind of non-combat content at this point, and that Cryptic wants to talk about it.

If they've worked on some non-combat content, why not say something about it?

If they haven't worked on meaningful non-combat content yet, why haven't they?

Personally, I assume that they have done some work on crafting, the economy, exploration, socializing, and possibly diplomacy at this point. So that leaves me wondering why they're choosing not to talk about it.

Maybe they think it has a higher attraction value than mere combat, so they're saving it for closer to launch when revealing it can do more good. ;)

--Flatfingers

[dantivirus]

I agree with Loyaltrekie.

A complete walkthrough of a mission with video would be nice or one showing various skills and gameplay mechanics in action.

[exracon]

Yes calling me a troll is very constructive. :rolleyes:

I see plenty of good constructive criticism offered here everyday, and then I see stamping of feet happen every time the next "issue" gets brought up.

Yeah I enjoy bothering people, that's why I make threads like this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24693) , this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24577), this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24441), or this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24333).

Don't you just love it when the ignoramus' come out?

[Drexxus3d]

They aren't exactly showing "us" any videos period...

Those were videos intended only for people that were there, they were designed more for grabbing the attention of people who have never heard of STO before and so they focused on the most fast-paced and interesting aspects of the game like ship and ground combat.

I really don't know what people expect from a genre of games where your character's advancement revolves around combat. Every other startrek game i've ever played was also based on combat.

[andrewprofit]

I think this game blows wow and eve away combat wise and all the other games I have seen over the years for that matter. Content wise from what I have read from Ask Cryptic I am excited about the Genesis engine. As far as mission quality there was on shot of non combat ingame play from the time portal from "The City on the Edge of Forever" if they have missions with that kinda attention to detail we are all in for a treat.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

People people. I am nots saying they should make a 3 minutes video of people walking around or ships just flying around.

But I would like to see Cryptic put some emphasis on the non-combat aspects of STO. At least more emphasis then they are doing right now, which is ZERO. This is causing me anxiety about what to expect in STO.
Warning, this is my standard cut and paste response to this subject.


A Statistical Analysis of Star Trek the Original Series by Matt Bailey (http://www.lyrishq.com/index.php/Web-Analytics/Analytics-According-to-Captain-Kirk.html)

Relevant Statistics from that page:
Episodes with fights = 55 (of 80), that's 70% of the episodes.
130 fights over 80 episodes.
Episodes with fights had an average of 2.36 fights per episode.

The above statistics show that 70% of the Star Trek TOS episodes had fights. That's right 70% of Star Trek IS fighting. Only 30% is not.

Please watch the video with Jack Emmert at the Las Vegas Star Trek Convention. (Scroll down to the bottom of the page) (http://www.startrekonline.com/videos)

From the above video at approximately 24 minutes in:
Question: "Are you going to stay true to the feeling of Star Trek and give players the feeling of really being in the Star Trek universe, or just putting a Star Trek skin on it?"
Jack Emmert: "Well obviously we're going to stay incredibly true to the Star Trek universe. It is very important that we don't just make this a typical MMORPG and wrap this into the IP. . . but that's why we're having things like exploration being a major part of game play. So yes, we're pretty obsessed about it. In fact my whole team has assignments. Every single member of my team has to watch an entire series. I've already watched all of the series, so I'm reading the books."

Question: What are you going to do to make sure the game remains like fun and competitive, but not make it a common classic MMO just a grind fest?"
Jack Emmert: "We believe at Cryptic that an MMORPG has to just be inheriently fun. . . we play at work, we play at home, and if the game isn't entertaining to us then we're not going to release it. It's that simple. So our mindset isn't trying to create a system to guarantee that certain people are going to stay online forever. It's just going to be what we think is that people will stay online if the game's just fun."

Jack Emmert (Cryptic's Creative Director) goes on to mention that they are working both exploration and diplomacy into the missions.

Not all Star Trek fans want primarily non-combat missions. I for one have been a Star Trek fan for as long as I can remember, and I want to shoot stuff and conquer planets in the name of the Klingon Empire. Does that make me less of a Star Trek fan than you?

Star Trek fans are a very diverse lot. Just because you want a particular something does not mean that all Star Trek fans want it to be that way.

In order for STO to be successful STO has to appeal to more than just the "die hard fans."

[Mysticone622]

AMEN! Show us gameplay footage of a noncombat mission. Or at least describe the non-combat missions.

I want to be comfortable with the non-combat. Even if this wasn't Star Trek, non-combat missions and entertainment is very important

you scan a class 4 comet in the neutral zone while keeping an eye out for romulans

[Loekii]

For what it's worth, please note that only part of the first sentence of JoeTheEngineer's post was clearly about Cryptic "showing" us non-combat content through a video.

The rest -- including the thread's subject title -- was about Cryptic "telling" us something about non-combat content. That doesn't require waiting for a video. It simply requires that someone has actually worked on some kind of non-combat content at this point, and that Cryptic wants to talk about it.

If they've worked on some non-combat content, why not say something about it?

If they haven't worked on meaningful non-combat content yet, why haven't they?

Personally, I assume that they have done some work on crafting, the economy, exploration, socializing, and possibly diplomacy at this point. So that leaves me wondering why they're choosing not to talk about it.

Maybe they think it has a higher attraction value than mere combat, so they're saving it for closer to launch when revealing it can do more good. ;)

--Flatfingers


Imo, I think it is simply they have not really fleshed it out. We know they started on Space and then moved to combat, that they are working on Fed content first, etc.

This Tweet from Craig's/Zinc'sTwitter account, suggests they were only recently brainstorming about ideas and such less then a month ago:
Great exploration, collection, non traditional, not exactlly crafting content brainstorm today. 2 cool, solid, easy to add systems in there.
8:25 PM Jul 21st.

Source: http://twitter.com/CrypticZinc

So I would say the absence is based upon not having anything in the hopper yet.

[HERO99]

I am a liitle confused about that product

[helldiver]

Speculation.

70% of your experience will be gained through combat. 30% of your experience will be gained through non-combat.

Examples of Non-Combat experience gain:
1- Like other MMOs you'll gain a chunk of Experience when you enter a new area.
2- You'll earn experience after completing a non-combat quest.
3- You might earn some experience through acheivements; after 10 Romulan kills, discovering 10 Type A Planets, Selling 10 items through the auction house, crafting 10 items.

Examples of Non-combat quests:
1- "Go talk to Admiral XYZ about obtaining your new ship"
2- "Escort this Diplomat to planet XYZ"
3- "Construct a Type II Disruptor Rifle"
4- "Get to Planet ABC at system XYZ within 5 minutes"

There, how hard is it to figure this out? I don't need the CEO of Cryptic to tell me we're going to have those things. I can deduce through my MMO experience that we're going to have such quests and alternate experience gaining methods. I can deduce that they won't be the primary form of experience gain unless I force myself to only do those things. In which case I'll be below the power curve compared to the majority of players.

Can you gain experience through Non-combat missions only? Probably, but you'll be behind most people that do all of the quests including the combat ones.

Will doing only the Non-combat missions be viable for a healthy character? Probably not. You'll more than likely have to do some combat, possibly quite a bit of combat for your character to succeed and be on par with his peers (equivalent rated players). Shoot from what we know thus far the first mission you do is a combat mission.

I think what some folks want, and what this game just might not provide (or any MMO for that mater) is the ability to do Non-combat diplomatic meaningful missions throughout the entiriety of their character's career.

I wager 70% of your experience will come from combat, and 30% will come through non-combat methods. That 30% can be deduced by looking at any other video game for examples of auxiliary experience gaining methods.

[.Spartan]

I think it has more to do with the marketing guys than anything else. The traditional thinking is that action, like sex, sells. So almost every game that puts out a pimp reel or some hype always focus on that element. It is almost always the number one reason why people 13-22 buy things. However I think the primary age demographic for this title is well into the 30s if not older.

[Manta2015]

Peregrine, You simply rock.

That is all =)


-Manta-

[Bigwig]

Yes calling me a troll is very constructive. :rolleyes:

I see plenty of good constructive criticism offered here everyday, and then I see stamping of feet happen every time the next "issue" gets brought up.

Yeah I enjoy bothering people, that's why I make threads like this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24693) , this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24577), this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24441), or this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24333).

Anichent owned you, get over it and stop trolling. This thread is about non-combat, you are just whining at people who are discussing game features? Go back to your bridge troll!

As for the topic at hand, i concur! So far STO looks like nothing but an arcade action-shooter with space-ships and crazy ground combat. It doesn't look very star trek to me at all. Show us something we can sink our teeth into. The new video just looks like all the old screenshots/video's we've had so far mashed up. Nothing new.

[ExpendableCrewman]

Yeahz I agree with borat guy we need more info about actual STAR TREK not just "well if youll notice we used this game engine here so we could PEW PEW there" I mean im all for combat and whatnot what would star trek b without it?? But, I also would like a post or two or mebbe a chat or ask cryptic explainin the inner workings of gameplay that are non-combat related.

[JoeTheEngineer]

Yeahz I agree with borat guy we need more info about actual STAR TREK not just "well if youll notice we used this game engine here so we could PEW PEW there" I mean im all for combat and whatnot what would star trek b without it?? But, I also would like a post or two or mebbe a chat or ask cryptic explainin the inner workings of gameplay that are non-combat related.

hear hear expendable crewman!!