A Klingon Science Vessel?

[seant9]

I was thinking about how Cryptic has mentioned balance between the factions, Klingon houses engaging in PvP, and how science vessels can detect cloaked ships, and how this may allude to the possibility of a Klingon Science vessel. Although I smirk at the idea of this and I'm sure many of you will scoff at it, but, seriously, what do you think about the possibility of a Klingon Science vessel in STO? I realize it's not canonical in that I could not find a single Klingon science vessel listed in Memory Alpha and the only time I've seen a Klingon medical officer was in the ENT episode that explained how some Klingon's lost their forehead ridges. I don't think that I would feel comfortable commanding a Klingon science vessel even if they came in handy by finding cloaked vessels during missions and in Klingon House vs. Klingon House in PvP. Is there anyone here that would be willing to take command of a Klingon science vessel?

[Drexxus3d]

If Klingons get science vessels, feds need carriers :D

[seant9]

I'm wondering how Klingons will detect cloaked Romulans if they are going to be a NPC or an added faction at a later time.

[Drexxus3d]

ALL ships will have a means of detecting cloaked ships.

Science vessels will just be the best at it

[IanD967]

Klingons dont get Science ships.

Feds = Science, Escort and Cruiser
Klingons = Carrier, Scout and Cruiser

[Deyvid]

Klingons should definitely have science vessels, or be able to outfit some of the ships with upgraded scientific equipment like advanced sensors etc.

Klingons aren't stupid like Pakleds. They are just as capable of scientific missions as other races. They may have differing views on science, or differing applications of scientific technology (such as using the Genesis device as a weapon in addition to terraforming planets for colonization, where Starfleet would not use it for both) -- but they are still capable of scientific research.

Going back even to TOS era, Mara was Science Officer of Kang's battle cruiser. If the Klingons have science officers (they do), then it's reasonable to conclude they could have a science officer that achieves the rank of Captain, and conducts scientific missions in a Klingon vessel outfitted for scientific research.

Klingons have scientists and engineers -- and it's not far-fetched for Klingons to have ships which can conduct scientific missions.


Honestly, I would expect the Federation side to have more scientific missions, but I will be very disappointed if the Klingon side has no scientific missions at all.

[seant9]

Klingons dont get Science ships.

Feds = Science, Escort and Cruiser
Klingons = Carrier, Scout and Cruiser

I searched and didn't find any information from Cryptic that indicated this. Could you please post a link to the source you have on this information?

[DanSeale]

It's been suggested that while a dedicated science vessel is something that the Klingons probably would not have in their arsenal, it is VERY probable that they would have ships that would be primarily built for combat ... and "maybe" add a few things on board so that the ship could also double as a science vessel.

I did a model based on that theory. IMHO the ship can still fit the bill as an advanced heavy cruiser .. (just remove the custom attachments and it's a dedicated combat vessel ONLY).

Advanced Cruiser / " Science " vessel (http://www.olbuzzard.net/images/KSV20.jpg)

[seant9]

Klingons should definitely have science vessels, or be able to outfit some of the ships with upgraded scientific equipment like advanced sensors etc.

Klingons aren't stupid like Pakleds. They are just as capable of scientific missions as other races. They may have differing views on science, or differing applications of scientific technology (such as using the Genesis device as a weapon in addition to terraforming planets for colonization, where Starfleet would not use it for both) -- but they are still capable of scientific research.

Going back even to TOS era, Mara was Science Officer of Kang's battle cruiser. If the Klingons have science officers (they do), then it's reasonable to conclude they could have a science officer that achieves the rank of Captain, and conducts scientific missions in a Klingon vessel outfitted for scientific research.

Klingons have scientists and engineers -- and it's not far-fetched for Klingons to have ships which can conduct scientific missions.


Honestly, I would expect the Federation side to have more scientific missions, but I will be very disappointed if the Klingon side has no scientific missions at all.


I realize that there are Klingon science officers. There has simply never been a ST television episode or movie that had a Klingon science vessel. I wonder what one would look like and what type of missions such a vessel would undertake.

[Deyvid]

Klingons dont get Science ships.

Feds = Science, Escort and Cruiser
Klingons = Carrier, Scout and Cruiser

So far, all we have seen officially from the Klingon ships is one Destroyer (the Raptor) and one Super Carrier (the Vo'Quv). And the NX-91001 is listed as an "Exploration ship" (not a cruiser or science ship).

Even if the Klingons don't get a class that is called "science", Klingon ships should definitely be able to upgrade scientific aspects of their ships such as advanced sensors etc. It would be ridiculous to not allow that. Klingons wouldn't be a super-power in the Alpha and Beta quadrants for so long if they were incapable of scientific research -- even if they use differing methods than humans / Starfleet.

Klingons would have scientists, just as the Ferengi, Bajorans, Cardassians, Romulans, etc. would have scientists and ships who's primary function is scientific missions.

[overlordthor]

Klingons are not fools, they know they require some science oriented vessels, but they prefer combat vessels. We dont see Klingon science vessels in shows because they are rarer then other things, and they arent required in the episode.

Typically, I'd expect it to be more a matter of the klingon's creating a more well rounded ship, that can equip scientific equipment, but not sacrifice all its combat systems. It becomes easier with the larger ships to do science missions, because of the increased space they have the option of having more scientific gear then a Bird Of Prey would.

[DanSeale]

Klingons are not fools, they know they require some science oriented vessels, but they prefer combat vessels. We dont see Klingon science vessels in shows because they are rarer then other things, and they arent required in the episode.

Typically, I'd expect it to be more a matter of the klingon's creating a more well rounded ship, that can equip scientific equipment, but not sacrifice all its combat systems. It becomes easier with the larger ships to do science missions, because of the increased space they have the option of having more scientific gear then a Bird Of Prey would.

I agree .. that is why I suggestd using a "cruiser" to be able to convert to adding science capabilities to its combat readiness.

I also agree that the ship would still be primarily combat .. but also have the capability of preforming scientific gathering missions as well.

[Deyvid]

I realize that there are Klingon science officers. There has simply never been a ST television episode or movie that had a Klingon science vessel. I wonder what one would look like and what type of missions such a vessel would undertake.

There has also never been a ST television episode or movie that depicted a Klingon Super Carrier that launched small fighters like the Battlestar Galactica launching Vipers, or a Star Destroyer launching TIE fighters either.

Perhaps the Klingon ships won't carry the designation "Science Ship", but if we are supposed to be able to customize our ships, then we should definitely be able to outfit one of our Klingon ship classes with lots of scientific equipment.

A Klingon science ship would probably do the same types of missions as a Federation science ship, or a Cardassian science ship, or a Ferengi science ship ... but perhaps for different goals? (Federation for peaceful humanitarian reasons, Ferengi for new forms of profit, Klingons for expanding the Empire and improving weapons and technologies, etc.)

[seant9]

Klingons are not fools, they know they require some science oriented vessels, but they prefer combat vessels. We dont see Klingon science vessels in shows because they are rarer then other things, and they arent required in the episode.

Typically, I'd expect it to be more a matter of the klingon's creating a more well rounded ship, that can equip scientific equipment, but not sacrifice all its combat systems. It becomes easier with the larger ships to do science missions, because of the increased space they have the option of having more scientific gear then a Bird Of Prey would.

I agree with you. I want a well rounded ship that is quite capable of fighting in sustained combat. After all, it is a Klingon ship and should be able to fight when the need arises. However, I know that there will be dedicated science vessels on the Federation side and I feel that we may see these ships as a choice for the KDF. I wouldn't want to command one. Yet, there may be some Klingons that choose to command a science vessel.

[copyrights]

Klingons should definitely have science vessels, or be able to outfit some of the ships with upgraded scientific equipment like advanced sensors etc.
Klingons aren't stupid like Pakleds.


I agree that Klingons are not like Pakleds. However, there are several star trek episodes that explain that science is not considered a priority within the empire. There are even episodes such as (Enterprise, Divergence), where they even explain how the empire steals technology from other races. This is canon.

Science is just not a priority within the Klingon Empire. It's very similair to our modern day in regards to space exploration. There is no profit in space exploration therefore its almost non existent. Why would someone spend 8 years getting their doctorate in astrophysics when they can spend 8 years getting their MD and make 5 times the amount of money? Modern day humans worldwide for the most part are living in a capitalist society that favors profit over space exploration. Klingons in the 24th century favor warriors and honor over scientist.

I am not saying that scientist don’t exist within the Klingon Empire, I am just saying that they are not as abundant as they are in the Federation which values science at this time. Its basic economics, supply and demand.

[Varrangian]

Klingons will have Raiders, Carriers and Cruisers. As we've been told these basic "roles" will only have so much say in the capabilities of a ship, the load out a player loads it with and the skills their bridge crew have will also determine its capabilities.

The klingons will no doubt have some method of cloak detection, but they will not have dedicated science ships, since we've already been told the above are the three basic roles for their faction.

[seant9]

Klingons will have Raiders, Carriers and Cruisers.

I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that we will only have a choice of these three classes of ships. I've looked through the various postings by Cryptic and have seen the carrier, cruiser, and destroyer; however, I've seen no Raider and I do not believe that we have seen all of the classes that will be offered yet. Perhaps the next Dev Chat will address this.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Lol

Maybe the less honourable have to command the Garbage transports and science ships.

in the Federation Science ships are quite the asset but i think in Klingon space they would be indeed helpfull but less loved ..

Its certainly somethng to think about.

Klingons are more fighters, scouts, carriers, but they have to have a science branch and an engineering arm or they wouldnt be in space in the first place :)

[DanSeale]

I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that we will only have a choice of these three classes of ships. I've looked through the various postings by Cryptic and have seen the carrier, cruiser, and destroyer; however, I've seen no Raider and I do not believe that we have seen all of the classes that will be offered yet. Perhaps the next Dev Chat will address this.

Even if there was something that indicated only 3 groups each .. it seems to be more or less what is available at launch.

As I understand it Cryptic (for example) has not rulled out Feds having carriers all togeather. It may be some time before it happens ... but by that same token it may be something that we can expect later on.

The same thing could be said of Klingon science specfic ships (for lack of a better term) .. IMHO those ships would still be primarily combat with the addition of scientific research capabilities.

[Varrangian]

I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that we will only have a choice of these three classes of ships. I've looked through the various postings by Cryptic and have seen the carrier, cruiser, and destroyer; however, I've seen no Raider and I do not believe that we have seen all of the classes that will be offered yet. Perhaps the next Dev Chat will address this.

Once place it can be found in the Oct. 08 GameInformer article. I believe it was also discussed in one of the Ask Cryptics.

[Ravensshadow]

This is only a guess, but, the "science" and "exploration" vessels mat come from the races that the klingons are allien to.

[Deyvid]

I agree that Klingons are not like Pakleds. However, there are several star trek episodes that explain that science is not considered a priority within the empire. There are even episodes such as (Enterprise, Divergence), where they even explain how the empire steals technology from other races. This is canon.

Klingons definitely conquer planets and incorporate them into the Empire, taking whatever resources and technologies those planets may have to offer -- but Klingons wouldn't just steal things to make them go like the Pakleds. And even when / if the Klingons did steal technologies, they would have the scientific understanding to operate the technology, reverse-engineer it, and improve upon it.

Romulans must have liked what the Klingon scientists and engineers were doing, since the Romulans borrowed the D7 type Klingon battle cruisers in the late 2260s.

Science is just not a priority within the Klingon Empire. It's very similair to our modern day in regards to space exploration. There is no profit in space exploration therefore its almost non existent. Why would someone spend 8 years getting their doctorate in astrophysics when they can spend 8 years getting their MD and make 5 times the amount of money? Modern day humans worldwide for the most part are living in a capitalist society that favors profit over space exploration. Klingons in the 24th century favor warriors and honor over scientist.

I am not saying that scientist don’t exist within the Klingon Empire, I am just saying that they are not as abundant as they are in the Federation which values science at this time. Its basic economics, supply and demand.

Klingons do highly value the warrior tradition and the honor code above all else, but being an honorable warrior and a scientist are not always mutually exclusive.

The Klingons have the proverbs "Brute strength is not the most important asset in a fight" and "A sharp knife is nothing without a sharp eye." Klingons recognize that being a strong warrior also includes having a sharp mind. In TNG: "Redemption" Kurn used a "science-based attacked" to take out two rival Birds of Prey, rather than just shooting torpedoes and disruptors at them. It took scientific research and understanding to know how to use science as an attack.

Klingons may not have dedicated "science ships" that sacrifice weapons in favor of additional sensor arrays the way a Federation science ship would have limited armaments, but Klingons would and should have ships that are capable of scientific missions / research while still maintaining combat readiness.

[DanSeale]

Klingons definitely conquer planets and incorporate them into the Empire, taking whatever resources and technologies those planets may have to offer -- but Klingons wouldn't just steal things to make them go like the Pakleds. And even when / if the Klingons did steal technologies, they would have the scientific understanding to operate the technology, reverse-engineer it, and improve upon it.

Romulans must have liked what the Klingon scientists and engineers were doing, since the Romulans borrowed the D7 type Klingon battle cruisers in the late 2260s.



Klingons do highly value the warrior tradition and the honor code above all else, but being an honorable warrior and a scientist are not always mutually exclusive.

The Klingons have the proverbs "Brute strength is not the most important asset in a fight" and "A sharp knife is nothing without a sharp eye." Klingons recognize that being a strong warrior also includes having a sharp mind. In TNG: "Redemption" Kurn used a "science-based attacked" to take out two rival Birds of Prey, rather than just shooting torpedoes and disruptors at them. It took scientific research and understanding to know how to use science as an attack.

Klingons may not have dedicated "science ships" that sacrifice weapons in favor of additional sensor arrays the way a Federation science ship would have limited armaments, but Klingons would and should have ships that are capable of scientific missions / research while still maintaining combat readiness.



I agree


which is why I suggested something like this:

Klingon Ship (http://www.olbuzzard.net/images/KSV20.jpg)


(granted it still needs detail .. ) Take a design that is clearly a combat ship .. and simply add a few "extras" to it for scientific research. DO NOT take off any of the weapons. The end result might be a ship that simply "handles" differently than a ship that is strictly combat .. but it would still be a formatible adversary

[Deyvid]

Maybe Cryptic needs to get a tighter reign on what they're calling these ships.

They had said Federation ships were: science, escort, cruiser .... then they label the NX-91001 "exploration vessel" (Is that a science ship, or cruiser? the description seems to lean toward "heavy cruiser" with laboratory facilities for scientific research)

If they said in that Game Informer article that it would be Raiders, Carriers, and Cruisers for Klingon side,... then they release the Raptor that is listed as a "Destroyer". The Birds of Prey were always listed in Trek books/sites as "scout" and "cruiser" (not Raider).

[Tain]

Of course Klingons will have science ships. Ignoring the fact we have already seen a klingon scientist in TNG, its pretty common sense that a society cannot be all warriors. Someone has to build their cities, someone has to develop and build their weapons. Someone has to do the research to design and build their ships, develop better cloak and engine technology.

[Kyias]

Why wouldn't Klingons have science ships?

So far the class tree is tactical, engineer and Science...does science get replaced in the Klingon class set with something else?

[seant9]

Why wouldn't Klingons have science ships?

So far the class tree is tactical, engineer and Science...does science get replaced in the Klingon class set with something else?

From "Ask Cryptic (July 21, 2009):

marscentral: We know it's Science, Tactical and Engineer for Starfleet types, but what about the Klingons?

The simple answer is they’re exactly the same. No one ever said Klingons don’t have scientists or engineers; somebody built those ships. Klingons will probably have a few distinctions in skills and certain other areas, but the classes will be the same.

[DanSeale]

Why wouldn't Klingons have science ships?

So far the class tree is tactical, engineer and Science...does science get replaced in the Klingon class set with something else?

Well .. frankly while there is nothing set in "canon" so to speak there are a few things we do know that help us to "speculate" with in reason.

1. The Klingon economy is definately geared to war or combat .. as is their culture.
2. Their economy and existance was seriously threatened with the destruction of Praxis

IMHO this does NOT mean that they do not have any interest in science .. only that their interest is geared differently. While some speculate that there would be not honor in scientific research .. I see it exactly the opposite. How much honor would there be in dangerous experimentation or testing a new warp drive system .. or a new weapon. To die for the honor of the empire while seeking to make her greater would surely have its rewards.

The science / combat extrapilation is based on the idea that the Klingons would be less likely to spend the resources to build ships specfically for science or medical research ... it is VERY probable that they WOULD use a combat ship .. such as a cruiser (or the larger version of the BOP) ... and add to or make room for equipment needed for scientific research.

[Archangelwoghd]

Why shouldn't the Klingons have science vessels? They have been demonstrated as geneticists, and of course developed warp drive, etc. So of course they have advanced science! They must be ahead of everyone when it comes to treating injuries, right? Portraying them as "barbarians in space ships" is pretty short sighted. They had warp drive long before humans ever did.

[seant9]

Why shouldn't the Klingons have science vessels? They have been demonstrated as geneticists, and of course developed warp drive, etc. So of course they have advanced science! They must be ahead of everyone when it comes to treating injuries, right? Portraying them as "barbarians in space ships" is pretty short sighted. They had warp drive long before humans ever did.

Would you take command of a Klingon science vessel?

[Archangelwoghd]

Would you take command of a Klingon science vessel?

Funny you should ask, because I thought it would be pretty cool to do that. I'm sure the Klingon science/exploration missions would have a very unique flavor to them. I can think of several pretty cool ideas right off the top of my head. (Cryptic are you reading this?)

:D

[seant9]

Funny you should ask, because I thought it would be pretty cool to do that. I'm sure the Klingon science/exploration missions would have a very unique flavor to them. I can think of several pretty cool ideas right off the top of my head. (Cryptic are you reading this?)

:D

I'm glad that someone has answered that question. I'm not sure if I would unless I had more information. Right now, my thoughts are on making a well rounded ship unless this would fall into the catagory of "jack of all trades; master of none." Like I said, I simply want more information like everyone else here does.

[DanSeale]

I'm glad that someone has answered that question. I'm not sure if I would unless I had more information. Right now, my thoughts are on making a well rounded ship unless this would fall into the catagory of "jack of all trades; master of none." Like I said, I simply want more information like everyone else here does.

Not trying to be argumentive .. only asking to gain better insight ..

Why a ship like that need to be a jack of all trade BUT master of none. By simply changing out a few custom parts you could make that ship what ever configuration a player could need. And that is pretty much what Cryptic does best .

[seant9]

Not trying to be argumentive .. only asking to gain better insight ..

Why a ship like that need to be a jack of all trade BUT master of none. By simply changing out a few custom parts you could make that ship what ever configuration a player could need. And that is pretty much what Cryptic does best .

No, I think it's a valid question. I think that, in this game, if you assign certain capabilities to your ship, you cannot make your vessel an amazing science and cruiser that is has extremely fine weaponry and combat ability and is still a great research vessel. I think for this game, certain attributes need to be left out as an option once you begin making your ship an instrument of science or war.

[Archangelwoghd]

Klingons need the same resources as the Federation or any other group. A Klingon Science vessel not only could go on all of the same missions as a Federation vessel, but with a Klingon flavor to them, but also several missions that Federation vessels would never do, like exploiting the resources of conquered planets. A science mission could involve a search of a planet for dilithium crystals while having to deal with a hostile population for example, and that's just one of several scenarios that come immediately to my mind.

[ExpendableCrewman]

I would think that a klingon science ship would be more laong the lines of a biological warfare type vessel, with dozens of stasis containers all containing retrovirus's and toxins, and other deadly virus' and biomatter that can be engineered or used for the purpose of war, but still that requires a significant amount of knowledge, and know how, that could be one type of science ship,

another might be perhaps a ship outfitted with superior sensors, and communications, that could sweep and deploy mines, as well as use it s improved longrange sensors to detect other fleets or ships and it could use its improved communications to realy that information back to the fleet.

The applications are many and they are there I beleive...would I command one?? Nah too boring doesnt sound like theres ebough excitement in it for me if I was playing a Klingon. But then again mebbe thats the reason we never see science vessels in the klingon fleet .... they all feel the same way.

[Archangelwoghd]

The applications are many and they are there I beleive...would I command one?? Nah too boring doesnt sound like theres ebough excitement in it for me if I was playing a Klingon. But then again mebbe thats the reason we never see science vessels in the klingon fleet .... they all feel the same way.

I don't see why Klingon science missions should be any more boring than Federation science missions. In fact, if you look at the scenario I outlined above, I would think they would be that much more exciting.

[DanSeale]

No, I think it's a valid question. I think that, in this game, if you assign certain capabilities to your ship, you cannot make your vessel an amazing science and cruiser that is has extremely fine weaponry and combat ability and is still a great research vessel. I think for this game, certain attributes need to be left out as an option once you begin making your ship an instrument of science or war.

Valid point .. along those lines: Is there a possibility that IF a player wanted to have similar vessels but configure them to different specs: ie: one as science specialty .. the other as combat specialty would that be a possibility ? Granted this would probably be unique to the Klingon Empire .. but there again I see that as a positve thing as Cryptic is looking for charactoristics that would tend to make each faction "unique" as how they are played.

[DanSeale]

I don't see why Klingon science missions should be any more boring than Federation science missions. In fact, if you look at the scenario I outlined above, I would think they would be that much more exciting.

OH yeah ! I can just see it now: exploring a new planet from Klingon perspective vs how the Federation might conduct themselves !

BIG difference !

[IanD967]

[QUOTE=Archangel-Woghd] So of course they have advanced science! They must be ahead of everyone when it comes to treating injuries, right? QUOTE]

and i quote Martok "Klingons make fine warriors but terrible doctors"

edit:
you know what no, i cant be arsed to spend hours finding that tiny bit of information again, its in one of the devchats. not sure what date it is but if you dont believe me other people have read it aswell, Falin to name one person who has


frankly they should of stuck all the devchat transcripts onto some sort of page like the AskCryptic ones

[browngallager]

I dont think it would be acurate for klingons to have a science vessel, but its gonna be set in the future of nemisis so they could have evolved to want to explore science. I mean their empire has grown, why not their knowledge. Also if its a science vessel it should have other races on it.

[bjwalle1]

I realize that there are Klingon science officers. There has simply never been a ST television episode or movie that had a Klingon science vessel. I wonder what one would look like and what type of missions such a vessel would undertake.


I don't think there are movies about Klingon Science vessels because they would obviously be cloaked and why would they want to attack someone? I find it unlikely a cloaked Klingon science vessel would be in as much Danger as a non- Cloaked Federation Science vessel. So there is not as much adventure to the klingons science missions. They simply can walk up and take some scans under cloak being completely undetected by enemy ships.

I don't think it would have been in any movies best interest to depict a bunch of angry Klingons doing a science mission.. They are probably only doing the science missions as punishment of some kind. lol

Most klingons do not find such science missions as a priority unless it is about someone's survival. They do not have an the exploration driven mind like humans. It is more glory driven.

In Star trek Armada 1 and 2 Klingons had a couple of science ships.. One of them was capable of a repulsion wave Im sry I do not remember the name of the ship. The other one was kind of a suicidal weapon. Top of the Line..... Super Weapon.

[seant9]

There is a post here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=13131) that has listed all of the ships that the Cryptic has officially announced. Even the stickied "Everything we know about STO" mentions very little about Klingon ship classes. I see no mention of a Klingon science vessel and the only Klingon ships shown appear to be for war, not science. I think the problem is that Cryptic has been mainly giving information out on Federation configurations. I realize that this has been dicussed at great length, but I sitll wonder if we will indeed see a Klingon science vessel. Perhaps the Gorn or the Orions will undertake that role within the KDF. Hopefully, we will start getting some more information about the Klingon ships and what roles they will have besides their main focus of fighting in battle.

[Archangelwoghd]

OH yeah ! I can just see it now: exploring a new planet from Klingon perspective vs how the Federation might conduct themselves !

BIG difference !

EXACTLY!

We saw Klingons exploring the Genesis planet, remember? Hardly boring.
"Maltz, nothing happenning down here." LOL!

[Archangelwoghd]

I dont think it would be acurate for klingons to have a science vessel, but its gonna be set in the future of nemisis so they could have evolved to want to explore science. I mean their empire has grown, why not their knowledge. Also if its a science vessel it should have other races on it.


Ummmmm.no. The Klingons are more advanced than humans, not less. We know that they had warp drive a long time before humans, and we know they are expert geneticists. Evolved enough to explore science? How do you think they invented their space ships?

If Cryptic is smart enough to offer a Klingon Science Vessel, and I'm sure they are, I will be the first to break it in.

Good lord, Klingons can do other things besides shoot stuff up! They are an advanced space-faring species with advanced technology, a rich culture, and a vast empire!

[DanSeale]

EXACTLY!

We saw Klingons exploring the Genesis planet, remember? Hardly boring.
"Maltz, nothing happenning down here." LOL!

Funny thing .. that was EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Some times we get only one visual of how the game should look ... there's more than just one faction in the game !

With the Klingons: there will be good natured ones ... and some that are more forceful. For the Klingon faction both are correct as there is no prime directive as such. If the captain seems threatened and decides to blast a small city off the face of the map ..... well .... that's just how it is. The inhabitants simply picked a fight with the wrong one !

:D

[Archangelwoghd]

I can think of at least 3 dozen really cool klingon science missions that would be uniquely klingon.
I've been scribbling them down in case Cryptic reads this and wants my help, J/K :)

[maltzenburgerz]

I think what ppl are forgetting during this conversation is that both factions are _MULTI-RACIAL_ so while it may be hard for some people to see Klingons, Gorn, or Nausicaans having science vessels, how about the Orion? While they are known mostly as pirates and traders, the fact remains they are considered one of the most technologically advanced civilzations in the galaxy. In fact, they are famous for thier Institute Of Cosmology, which takes very advanced technology and scientific knowledge to study. While the Klingons may run the Empire, I see the Orions being the brains to the other three races' brawn.

[Archangelwoghd]

I think what ppl are forgetting during this conversation is that both factions are _MULTI-RACIAL_ so while it may be hard for some people to see Klingons, Gorn, or Nausicaans having science vessels, how about the Orion? While they are known mostly as pirates and traders, the fact remains they are considered one of the most technologically advanced civilzations in the galaxy. In fact, they are famous for thier Institute Of Cosmology, which takes very advanced technology and scientific knowledge to study. While the Klingons may run the Empire, I see the Orions being the brains to the other three races' brawn.

True. Just like Vulcans are the brains of the federation, while Humans run things...

Still, *NONE* of the spacefaring races got to be where they are without an intimate understanding of advanced science, so surely they ALL have science vessels!

[seant9]

I would really like some feedback by one of the Dev's on this matter.

[Corvak]

I could see Klingon science being a lot of weapons testing - cloaking upgrades etc.

Basically - whatever they can do to make the warriors stronger.

[Archangelwoghd]

I would really like some feedback by one of the Dev's on this matter.


Me too. I mean if the Federation faction has battle vessels as well as exploration vessels, why should klingons be limited to battleships??

[seant9]

Me too. I mean if the Federation faction has battle vessels as well as exploration vessels, why should klingons be limited to battleships??

Right, I know they mentioned that there would be a different feel for each faction, but they have emphasized balance as well. The notion of having the faction balanced is one of the reasons why I posed this question in the first place. I realize balance doesn't equal like for like, yet I wonder how both factions could be balanced if one has science vessels and the other does not. What would offset the balance in this case?

[Varrangian]

Right, I know they mentioned that there would be a different feel for each faction, but they have emphasized balance as well. The notion of having the faction balanced is one of the reasons why I posed this question in the first place. I realize balance doesn't equal like for like, yet I wonder how both factions could be balanced if one has science vessels and the other does not. What would offset the balance in this case?

The concept is known as asymetrical balance. Balance does not have to mean if there is a X on this side there must be an X on the other side. It can mean that because there is an X on one side you need something that is =X, but not X.

[seant9]

The concept is known as asymetrical balance. Balance does not have to mean if there is a X on this side there must be an X on the other side. It can mean that because there is an X on one side you need something that is =X, but not X.

I understand that. Yet, I still wonder how this will be addressed.

[Archangelwoghd]

I'd really like to see what the Devs have to say about this.

[Varrangian]

I understand that. Yet, I still wonder how this will be addressed.

Very simply. Make pluses for each side and minuses for each side. If they make sure each side has the same number of pluses and minuses everything will be fine.

[Draconianknight]

I was thinking about how Cryptic has mentioned balance between the factions, Klingon houses engaging in PvP, and how science vessels can detect cloaked ships, and how this may allude to the possibility of a Klingon Science vessel. Although I smirk at the idea of this and I'm sure many of you will scoff at it, but, seriously, what do you think about the possibility of a Klingon Science vessel in STO? I realize it's not canonical in that I could not find a single Klingon science vessel listed in Memory Alpha and the only time I've seen a Klingon medical officer was in the ENT episode that explained how some Klingon's lost their forehead ridges. I don't think that I would feel comfortable commanding a Klingon science vessel even if they came in handy by finding cloaked vessels during missions and in Klingon House vs. Klingon House in PvP. Is there anyone here that would be willing to take command of a Klingon science vessel?

I would think that a retro fitted BoP would suffice. One failure that the Federation has is adequately defending or protecting it's science vessels.:rolleyes:
That being said, I would be happy to fly escort if not doing anything else:cool:

[maltzenburgerz]

True. Just like Vulcans are the brains of the federation, while Humans run things...

Still, *NONE* of the spacefaring races got to be where they are without an intimate understanding of advanced science, so surely they ALL have science vessels!



Never said they didn't research science (Klingons had warp before humans did amazingly enough. Qapla'!), was just bringing up a point that hadn't been mentioned yet. XD

[Archangelwoghd]

Never said they didn't research science (Klingons had warp before humans did amazingly enough. Qapla'!), was just bringing up a point that hadn't been mentioned yet. XD


It's all good, I figured as much. But I really hope Cryptic offers us a Klingon Science vessel, because if they do, that's what I'm going to do.

:D

[seant9]

I could see Klingon science being a lot of weapons testing - cloaking upgrades etc.

Basically - whatever they can do to make the warriors stronger.

Weapons and cloaking can be tested with any vessel. A vessel dedicated to science type of missions could be used for much more than testing new and improved weapons and/or cloaking devices. Science vessels could be used to research new and unknown phenomena such as wormholes. I'm sure that a battle cruiser would not be the prefered vessel for conducting such missions unless the Klingons wanted to destroy it.

[Draconianknight]

Klingons have had scientist and diplomats etc in the Star Trek shows. In fact thats how Janeway went back in time to get Voyager home.

[Koroth]

The Klingon Defense Force is a machine of war. Where are the Science vessels?

Simple. They're civilian.

- Koroth

[Draconianknight]

The Klingon Defense Force is a machine of war. Where are the Science vessels?

Simple. They're civilian.

- Koroth

Every war machine has a tech branch....the US military has DARPA for Christ sake.
It just means that the research is more military orientated. It does not mean that it dont exist.
The idea of a Klingon Science vessel actually has some merit. I still think it would be a modified BoP.

[Archangelwoghd]

Klingon scientists could (and prolly do) argue that they are the bravest and most honorable of all, taking on the very forces of nature and learning her secrets. What is more dangerous, a black hole or a single warrior? Klingon scientists face the unknown every day and deal with the primal forces so powerful that they are difficult to even comprehend.

I'm sure that when klingon scientists first split the atom, many died in the laboratories and in subsequent tests. Eventually that enemy was finally dominated and controlled, but not before it killed thousands of Klingons I'm sure. Klingon scientists face enemies that would send some of the bravest warriors into retreat!

[dinendae]

Klingons should definitely have science vessels, or be able to outfit some of the ships with upgraded scientific equipment like advanced sensors etc.

...

Going back even to TOS era, Mara was Science Officer of Kang's battle cruiser. If the Klingons have science officers (they do), then it's reasonable to conclude they could have a science officer that achieves the rank of Captain, and conducts scientific missions in a Klingon vessel outfitted for scientific research.

Klingons have scientists and engineers -- and it's not far-fetched for Klingons to have ships which can conduct scientific missions.





In ST:TNG, in the episode where the Ferengi created the metaphasic sheilding, there was a female Klingon scientist (Kurak) that had been working on the same technology.

[AchillesHeel]

Every war machine has a tech branch....the US military has DARPA for Christ sake.
It just means that the research is more military orientated. It does not mean that it dont exist.
The idea of a Klingon Science vessel actually has some merit. I still think it would be a modified BoP.
I agree.

Also, we have to think like a Klingon when it comes to what the ships are called. A Klingon science vessel might not be called a "science vessel." Even if it performs the same mission, it would probably have a more martial name. I've always imagined that Klingon Scouts would serve the same function as Starfleet's Survey Ships, for instance. In Starfleet, an "escort" is a combat ship that adds firepower alongside the vessel it's escorting. For the Klingons, every ship is a combat ship, so an "escort" would necessarily be something else, such as a science ship. In both cases, the "escort" assists other ships by providing enhanced capabilities that those other ships don't already possess.

[blujester]

I think you guys are missing the point here.

Calling a ship a science vessel means nothing. Lets concider this as a game after all. We have 3 classes for characters : Science/Tactical/Engineer this equates in game terms to Buff/Debuff-DPS-Tank. We have 3 ship archtypes for each faction. One would assume on the federation side that a science vessel would be capable of soft control as in sensor jaming or what not, So which of the 3 ship types on Klingon side fill this role. Thats how the developers are going to look at it. Any vessel with a number of science slots for BOs and the proper module fitted will be a Science vessel for the terms of that mission. My guess is that the Carrier thats been mentioned is the ship which fills that role in the KDF. I would imagine it has more science stations for BOs and less direct fire power than its siblings. It will be your controler role ship where your cruisers are tanks and your raiders are dps or something similer.


Bj

[Jag-Fell]

I thought that Klingons used warships as science vessel. Like the one that blew up in the Ds9 episode Dramatis Personae.

A Klingon Vor'cha-class attack cruiser, the IKS Toh'Kaht, returns from an expedition through the wormhole a month ahead of schedule. Immediately after clearing the event horizon, the vessel explodes.

The Toh'Kaht had been on a bio-survey mission in the Gamma Quadrant, so the final words of Hon'Tihl make little (if any) sense.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dramatis_Personae_(episode)

[Archangelwoghd]

I agree.

Also, we have to think like a Klingon when it comes to what the ships are called. A Klingon science vessel might not be called a "science vessel." Even if it performs the same mission, it would probably have a more martial name. I've always imagined that Klingon Scouts would serve the same function as Starfleet's Survey Ships, for instance. In Starfleet, an "escort" is a combat ship that adds firepower alongside the vessel it's escorting. For the Klingons, every ship is a combat ship, so an "escort" would necessarily be something else, such as a science ship. In both cases, the "escort" assists other ships by providing enhanced capabilities that those other ships don't already possess.

Very good. Well said.
I just hope Cryptic gives us a Klingon Science Vessel.