[Your Opinion] Capturing Player Ships & Bases

[SovWell]

I honestly think that capturing player ships and or bases would be cool/great for additonal resources and or playablity. If we could capture the enemy ship, and turn it in for additional faction credits or rank/skill points - would be good for all palyers. Likewise for enemy bases, we would use them to gain resources or a strong hold to moving forward behind enemy lines. I would love to see us take the technoligy from the enemy player ship/base and use it on our own ships.

You opinion is welcome.

[Redshirt_40067]

I'd be for it so long as it wasn't used as a mechanism to grief other players. In Pirates of the Burning Sea, Cutthroat characters can capture enemy ships as well as NPC ships, and use them. That puts the losing player out of their ship. So long as the losing player here had a means to replace their ship in a reasonable fashion, I'd be all for it, at least in the Neutral Zone. As far as capturing NPC ships for other classes like naval Officer and Privateer, they award different types of commendations based on the level value of the captured ship.

What I'd like to see is something along those lines. Non-engineer characters can capture and get commendations, which can be handed in for tangible rewards, like consumables or special mods for their ship or even crew. Engineers would be able to opt for commendations or salvage, returning scrap parts for sale, raw mats for the eventual crafting system, or special parts that can be reverse engineered to make special items, if only useable a few times, like a cloak for Federation ships.

[IIntrude]

I could support something like this possibly as long as it was confined to the neutral zone. Having starbases change hands and offering bonuses for those controlling them could provide some interesting game play. However it rarely turns out how we envision it. WAR has had several issues since launch with a similar system that the game was designed around.

As for ships, I am less interested in such a concept. I wan't to see Fed ships undergoing warp core breaches, not wasting my valiant crew's time trying to underman their inferior starships. ;)

[Rgoodfel]

I would think any captain of any nation would scuttle their ship before allowing their technology to fall into an enemy hands. Considering that allowing that to happen could endanger the whole nation if their enemies could find some vulnerability in their ships.

As far as capturing bases seems it might be slightly more possible. Just because turning over the base might be because of some sort of agreement. However, I think the ship argument could apply here too.

[Varrangian]

I can see bases being done like a capture the "flag" kind of PvP encounter in the neutral zone where the bases are not owned by those actually participating in the PvP, but rather static. This could be great to develop the faction conflict having more bases in your possession giving your faction some benefit.

I do not see capturing ships as possible for two reasons. First, we don't suffer ship loss and shouldn't. The player investment (especially in regards to things like MT gear) is too great to allow for such loss. Second, this is a faction based game, the ability of someone to fly a ship of the other faction complicates the game to such a degree that it could imbalance the entire faction system. While we've seen Kirk and crew capture a Klingon ship and fly it, this is one area that should be left to NPC missions only.

[USS_Parallax]

What the heck is with all the [Your Opinion] things?

[Redshirt_40067]

He has his opinion, and would like to see other's opinions on said topics.

[overlordthor]

I dont very much like the idea of player bases, and shipyards, I posted a alternative to this, as a mission to protect a starbase for an extended period of time near the border, while you can do other missions while protecting it in the area, you have to head back to protect it from either pvp based attack, or npc based attacks, mission lasting somewhere in the area of an hour or two, with one or two attacks. Players on alternative side pick up an attack mission, during that time.

[Rgoodfel]

What the heck is with all the [Your Opinion] things?

My guess s that SovWell is trying to get us talking about things that might effect the game in a positive way. Rather than the usual: is beta here, the lifetime / six month deal sucks, and all female characters should be dressed like female Frengi threads.

[SovWell]

My guess s that SovWell is trying to get us talking about things that might effect the game in a positive way. Rather than the usual: is beta here, the lifetime / six month deal sucks, and all female characters should be dressed like female Frengi threads.

Yes, you are correct.

However, wrong on the " and all female characters should be dressed like female Frengi threads" ..........
lol notice the [Your Opinion] Skimpy Outfits, or Long Johns? (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24285)

[Rgoodfel]

Yes, you are correct.

However, wrong on the " and all female characters should be dressed like female Frengi threads" ..........
lol notice the [Your Opinion] Skimpy Outfits, or Long Johns? (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24285)

Arrrg, well I was impressed...:p

[Kriss]

As a future Klingon Captain, I am for capturing ships and star bases as well. I know this topic was hotly debated many moons ago but is very much worth going back over!

Star bases. Yes! This could be fit into PvP, faction Vs. faction very nicely. Though some sort of game mechanics have to be introduced with more meaning for a capture other than just .." cool, we got a star base....now what do we do with it? Watch it spin on its axis?""

As for ships, most defiantly yes!! While I am all for taking opponents ships, I don't think we would be able to fly them UNLESS they are of the same race. IE- Two Klingon Houses are fighting and once Capt takes control of an enemy ship. This Captain can a) Turn the ship over to his/her faction House for reputation and any rewards given, b) Can put the ship in his/her own fleet/hanger to fly( if they have the necessary skills) or c) What someone else suggested, you can get parts of said ship in return for giving it to your faction. But honestly, this could fit into option (a) as your Faction can give you the choice of a few items from that ship as rewards. Especially if they are upgrades.

The same can be said for taking over another factions ship except I can't see a Klingon piloting a Fed ship and vice versa. So those ships would be turned in for a good reputation gain and perhaps items off that ship.

Now for the people who decry they should not be able to lose their ship. I am in complete disagreement with you. If you decide to partake in PvP or faction/faction action them you sign your little waiver understanding you can lose your ship( most likely any upgrades on that ship). But you can go back to your Faction and get a replacement ship just without the upgrades. Or you would have to repurchase those upgrades using your Reputation points and/or credits.

Thats all part of the gaming process. And as for MT's I could give a rats arse about them. I HATE MT's and really don't care if you lose them. You probably wouldn't but hey, I would like to see you lose them as a lesson to not buy extra crap in a game! ............... Anyways.....

Thats how I see capturing being able to work in this game. Now the only thing that has to happen is Cryptic growing some balls and making it happen.

[Redshirt_40067]

As I thought it out, I could definitely see an opposing faction ship being captured AND FLOWN if done in an instance. The Klingon player manages to board and capture a Miranda-class vessel, and uses it to infiltrate into range of the Federation outpost, and then attacking. Should the Klingon player win the final battle sequence, the ship is too badly damaged to be salvaged, but the Council will reward him and his House greatly, and many songs will be sung of his daring deeds. Should he fail, well he'll probably want to go down with the ship...

In a PvP zone, a player defeated by boarding actions should temporarily lose access to his ship, say a 24 hour window IF he has other ships in his hangar. The capturing player would not gain a new opposing faction ship, but would instead be rewarded with commendations as I suggested earlier, to be handed in for consumables or free ship upgrades or parts. If the losing player only has the one ship, there shouldn't be a penalty though.

[WinterPark1701]

I'd have to say the likelihood of being able to space jack someones ship is fairly remote. In this game with all the customization that goes into ships and the corresponding time and money (even if it is space money) is going to turn peoples ships into high value investments. Besides, what would be to keep all the high level guys who power level in the game from jacking some mid-level casual players stuff and forcing him to start all over again? Its the same way as they've already said there will be no perma-death for people or ships. Really if they let you just run off with other people's ships it would kick the game down a few levels.

What I could see happening is if you do mess up someone's ship you can run off with equipment / money / favorite DVD.

[cocoa-jin]

hopefully the captured ship would require crew...reducing one or both ships below effective crew compliment.

[Kieshdor]

This would add more ways for a person to loose there ship in a fight but not completely loose it, would count as a death. Enemy boarding teams NPC/PC biased boarding teams could attempt to capture a ship or disable it like if the enemy has very hard hitting weapons but terrible shielding, you drop there shields and attempt to disable there weapons with your own but if its too hard for just your ship then send a team over and fight the way to sensors,generators,or weapons and damage the area with demo charges or some sort of explosive device.

[LegateSovereign]

That would be a very good idea. Especially if I could capture a ship from another faction and make myself a hybrid :D But the starbases are even better for capturing, because you could probably build yourself ships there.

[ExpendableCrewman]

In response to LIZARDGUYs post "what is with all the YOUR OPINION things" Well sharing your opinion with others and hearing theres is entertaining, fun, passes the time giving you somethin ggame related to talk about ubtil the game is launched

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY maybe just maybe cryptic might chance upon one of these threads/posts and say well if that many like that idea maybe we should implement it since after all they ARE the onles that are going to be playing this game.

Frankly I like the idea and am all for it for all of those reasons.

[deeboboy]

i like the idea but only if you you are on the same level or within 3-5 levels of that player its no good a level 1 taking a level 50 ship if they haver a few friends who play the game and you all go hunting for a big arse ship....

it could also be made that as yopu gain more powerfull ships you need more skills to operate them so capturing a big gunned ship would prove useless as you could not command it untill you have the skill to work out how the ship works.
as for bases if you get close to a starbase that has or does belong to a fleet then this station would not be safe for long and starbases are alot more pwerfull than in the tv shows and movies with the exception of ds9 after refit. so the best advice is blow it up or make sure you have some friends to help you repair it and hold it for a while.l

overall i think this is an excellant idea

[Zepath]

Well, personally I'm all for player created/built/supported Starbases and Shipyards. I think Cryptic blew off a large portion of potential customers when they made the decision not to support that ... but that's just my opinion, and that along with $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

As for capturing and using ships from the other faction ... I don't support that at all for several reasons;

A) It makes about as much sense as an Orc with all his skills and abilities suddenly being able to capture a dwarf and play as a dwarf.

B) I want visual recognition of who my enemy is .... I don't want to be trying to discern in the middle of combat whether or not that Bird of Prey has Federation markings, or that Constitution class has Klingon markings.

C) Cryptic will have a large enough challenge keeping this game balanced without having to deal with skill sets getting inter-mingled with tools they were never supposed to have (this is why they aren't doing it now).

D) It just doesn't make sense. Allies did not capture German and Japanese planes and fly them, nor do we capture Russian Migs and fly them Iraq.

We fly what we're trained in and on. For very good reasons.

[Sineris]

B) I want visual recognition of who my enemy is .... I don't want to be trying to discern in the middle of combat whether or not that Bird of Prey has Federation markings, or that Constitution class has Klingon markings.



My understanding of space flight is that it's not so much markings as a little thing called IFF.(Identify Friend or Foe) It could be said, that if you board a vessel, one of the defending crew as a last resort locks out the former faction IFF and you'd therefore have to transmit an enemy IFF if you were to continue to commandeer a vessel.

Granted, this is all speculation, but that's my take on it.

[gmbosko1]

Punishing players too much for losing = invariably the player will quit. Online games have too many problems with stability, balance and connectivity issues to risk this.

NOW, defeating players should grant you some kind of token, or turn-in item as a reward to build up to other items. That would be great.

[andrewprofit]

yes I think that would be fun. I think you should only be attackable if you are flagged. Also you should have to particpate in the boarding party to capture all of the enemy crew. Even one uncaptured crew could regain control of the ship. Since some of these ships are huge I think it would be an entertaining minigame once they complete all the ship interiors. A good reson to explore those interiors would be to find the best way for capturing enemy ships. I image some of the largest ships could take hours to find all the enemy crew. At some point it would be nice if the enemy crew ai actaully tried to hide.


Anyway I guess I am trying to say it should be difficult time consuming to capture a large ship and not an easy way to double your firepower.

[Corvak]

Punishing players too much for losing = invariably the player will quit. Online games have too many problems with stability, balance and connectivity issues to risk this.

NOW, defeating players should grant you some kind of token, or turn-in item as a reward to build up to other items. That would be great.

This. This post here.

I think that players should NOT lose any of their hard earned ships/addons/bridge officers due to falling in PvE or PvP. If you want that, go play Eve Online.

I also think you should get some sort of reward for removing said player from the fight. Perhaps some sort of ship addon, temporary buff, or bridge officer designed to aid specifically in PvP. (maybe an officer with experience fighting the klingons/federation that adds damage/improves your shields or something)

[CapTrott]

I am against capturing player ships. I am fine with capturing NPC ships and possibly capturing specific starbases.

[Strandberg]

I honestly think that capturing player ships and or bases would be cool/great for additonal resources and or playablity. If we could capture the enemy ship, and turn it in for additional faction credits or rank/skill points - would be good for all palyers. Likewise for enemy bases, we would use them to gain resources or a strong hold to moving forward behind enemy lines. I would love to see us take the technoligy from the enemy player ship/base and use it on our own ships.

You opinion is welcome.

Your forgetting it has already been stated that you will not be able to lose your ships

[Kriss]

This. This post here.

I think that players should NOT lose any of their hard earned ships/addons/bridge officers due to falling in PvE or PvP. If you want that, go play Eve Online.

I also think you should get some sort of reward for removing said player from the fight. Perhaps some sort of ship addon, temporary buff, or bridge officer designed to aid specifically in PvP. (maybe an officer with experience fighting the klingons/federation that adds damage/improves your shields or something)

And why should people NOT be able to lose something they worked for? Isn't that the bane of life itself? I'm sorry to disappoint you my friend but in life you always have the chance to lose everything including the shirt on your back.

Now, as I have previously stated in this thread, you should not lose "everything". But losing nothing is not an acceptable response either. And all the threads and the previous thread-naught this topic was discussed in many moons ago made this very apparent!

If you decide to enter into PvP you sign on the dotted line that you have a risk of losing stuff on your ship. You may not lost the whole ship but you can very likely lose upgrades you have on it. Especially if I capture your ship and decide I like those upgraded sensors or torpedo bays. I'll take them! kthnxby!

If I capture your ship, your crew just gets immobilized just like in ground combat. You and the rest of your BOs will find yourselves back at the star base you last left or whatever spawn system they have. You can get a replacement ship or whatnot but you won't have the upgrades.

This has always been the main rotation around PvP! You go into a battle fully knowledgeable that you just might lose what you are flying! I take your ship ( in reality I only can take some upgrades if I so choose) and I also get rewarded by the Empire for my deeds. You get your ship back but without the neat stuff you had in it. Risk Vs Reward for those who don't know the term.

For PvE....eh, I don't know how you can work that system when it comes to ship upgrades but with PvP, the above listed is the only way to fly!! For PvP to be rewarding to the PvPers, there must be something you can lose. If you don;t anything then it just becomes another zerg-fest with absolutely NO meaning whatsoever. And it's not just me saying that.

[rogerwroten]

And why should people NOT be able to lose something they worked for? Isn't that the bane of life itself? I'm sorry to disappoint you my friend but in life you always have the chance to lose everything including the shirt on your back.

Isn't that what this is really all about. This is a game and not life. Most people play games not because they mimic life, but because they do not.


Now, as I have previously stated in this thread, you should not lose "everything". But losing nothing is not an acceptable response either. And all the threads and the previous thread-naught this topic was discussed in many moons ago made this very apparent!

If you decide to enter into PvP you sign on the dotted line that you have a risk of losing stuff on your ship. You may not lost the whole ship but you can very likely lose upgrades you have on it. Especially if I capture your ship and decide I like those upgraded sensors or torpedo bays. I'll take them! kthnxby!

Again. most MMOs you do not lose things, they might take damage, and need repair, but you usually do not lose anything. The only MMO I can think of that you do is DFO, Eve, and to some extent PotBS. Any others?


If I capture your ship, your crew just gets immobilized just like in ground combat. You and the rest of your BOs will find yourselves back at the star base you last left or whatever spawn system they have. You can get a replacement ship or whatnot but you won't have the upgrades.

This has always been the main rotation around PvP! You go into a battle fully knowledgeable that you just might lose what you are flying! I take your ship ( in reality I only can take some upgrades if I so choose) and I also get rewarded by the Empire for my deeds. You get your ship back but without the neat stuff you had in it. Risk Vs Reward for those who don't know the term.

I take it you are talking Eve? I doubt STO will be like Eve.


For PvE....eh, I don't know how you can work that system when it comes to ship upgrades but with PvP, the above listed is the only way to fly!! For PvP to be rewarding to the PvPers, there must be something you can lose. If you don;t anything then it just becomes another zerg-fest with absolutely NO meaning whatsoever. And it's not just me saying that.

Losing something does not always have to be personal. It could be faction oriented.

[andrewprofit]

This. This post here.

I think that players should NOT lose any of their hard earned ships/addons/bridge officers due to falling in PvE or PvP. If you want that, go play Eve Online.

I also think you should get some sort of reward for removing said player from the fight. Perhaps some sort of ship addon, temporary buff, or bridge officer designed to aid specifically in PvP. (maybe an officer with experience fighting the klingons/federation that adds damage/improves your shields or something)

I kinda agree with the no destroying my ship bit. I think NPC ships should be the ones that get blown up and captured most often. I suppose if I am in a pvp area or flagged pvp then I could end by getting blown up or stolen. To make the game feel like were in the IP we need to be successful. So if my ship gets badly damage and is incap the npc's go pick on someone else and let my ship get towed back or self repaired.

[Kriss]

Again. most MMOs you do not lose things, they might take damage, and need repair, but you usually do not lose anything. The only MMO I can think of that you do is DFO, Eve, and to some extent PotBS. Any others?

Losing something does not always have to be personal. It could be faction oriented.

Well, obviously that is where you and I greatly differ in opinion. I am a PvPer but I also PvE for the storyline. I am a firm believer that in any PvP you have to have to be willing to put something in the pot for what you gain. What point is it in a game, or even a fight if all you you are able to do is gain, gain and gain but yet not have any ability to lose anything? That is what I would called being spoiled. Yes, just like the little spoiled brats who cry "I want I want, I want, NOW!" but they aren't willing to give anything to get what it is they want. That is exactly how i see people who say they shouldn't have to lose anything but get all the gain in PvP.

Well, I will flat out say, NO! PvP is about risk and reward. You want the rewards, you better damn well be ready to accept the risk. Period! That is thee ONLY way PvP means anything besides the e-peen contest you see in any other fairy-like games. You want recognition and a name, then you put it all on the line! No if, and or buts.

If you don't want to put your stuff on the line, then skunk off and don't bother getting into PvP. That's your choice. No one is forcing you.

[rogerwroten]

Well, obviously that is where you and I greatly differ in opinion. I am a PvPer but I also PvE for the storyline. I am a firm believer that in any PvP you have to have to be willing to put something in the pot for what you gain. What point is it in a game, or even a fight if all you you are able to do is gain, gain and gain but yet not have any ability to lose anything? That is what I would called being spoiled. Yes, just like the little spoiled brats who cry "I want I want, I want, NOW!" but they aren't willing to give anything to get what it is they want. That is exactly how i see people who say they shouldn't have to lose anything but get all the gain in PvP.

Well, I will flat out say, NO! PvP is about risk and reward. You want the rewards, you better damn well be ready to accept the risk. Period! That is thee ONLY way PvP means anything besides the e-peen contest you see in any other fairy-like games. You want recognition and a name, then you put it all on the line! No if, and or buts.

If you don't want to put your stuff on the line, then skunk off and don't bother getting into PvP. That's your choice. No one is forcing you.

Yes, we are opposites. I am a PvEer who dabbles in PvP. :D

The problem I see (from my point of view) is that if you have harsh death penalties, you have little or no participation from players like me. Take, for instance, PotBS. The hard core PvPer, basically, drove off the PvEer who sometimes wanted to PvP. And look at the game now... Struggling to survive.

And again we differ... To me PvP has nothing to do with risk/reward. To me PvP is proving myself against another person. Proving that I can defeat a person with equal equipment (or close to it).

And lastly... No offense intended. But making a name for yourself or getting recognized is the ultimate e-peen stroking.

[Draconianknight]

I can see bases being done like a capture the "flag" kind of PvP encounter in the neutral zone where the bases are not owned by those actually participating in the PvP, but rather static. This could be great to develop the faction conflict having more bases in your possession giving your faction some benefit.

I do not see capturing ships as possible for two reasons. First, we don't suffer ship loss and shouldn't. The player investment (especially in regards to things like MT gear) is too great to allow for such loss. Second, this is a faction based game, the ability of someone to fly a ship of the other faction complicates the game to such a degree that it could imbalance the entire faction system. While we've seen Kirk and crew capture a Klingon ship and fly it, this is one area that should be left to NPC missions only.

I can see this type of set up as well. It smacks of WoW but the capture the base thing works.
Taking over an enemy ship and towing it back to base should be left for PvE missions. That being said, I intend to play some PvP as well. I think a possible solution for a ship capture in a PvP encounter would be that after a succesful boarding/capture a loss of status go to the loser and an status bonus be applied to the victor. And the loser would have to respawn at his/her safe zone. This way all the elements are applied, the fight, the bounty and the loss. But the actual loss of ship is not applied.

[SovWell]

Hey ... Kool, one of my posts continues to live.LOL :p

[Amblin]

I agree with the OP. Defeating the opponent and taking the ship is a good idea.

How good would it be to win a battle, then get an option to decide the fate of the loser?

You can leave tthem drifting, drop them on a planet, sell them as slaves sell the ship to a trader, the possibilites.....

Now I would add a caveat that restricts this option, such as if you do too much damage to the ship, it's not worth salvaging and additionally, I would add a surrender option to the gameplay.

Now on the other hand you get beaten, damn it hurts but what if it kicks of a quest arc to get your ship back or a ground mission to escape form a planet or prison?

That would be cool and would help create legends in the game. Also if you escape the land mission, I would give the player the option of getting a copy of their ship back, thus reducing the pain.

It's a good way to add flavour to combat and real consequences. While not all would agree if this were to happen to them repeatedly, I think given the current knowledge on the pvp setup in the game this could be a fun hook.

[jhem99]

We take prisoners, salvage tech from ship and then blow it up into smithereens.:cool:

[tyler1995]

I think certain areas for certain activities (PvP) or Missions Like to Capture a specific Ship Or Starbase (talking in a faction vs faction sense) So you get a more Open battlefeild sense to it, Different objectives each time.

I am for capturing ships but to a certain extent.. In PvP If youre in the wrong place in the wrong time, its still your FAULT. But yes there should be some padded mat for players that have had their ships destroyed / captured to regain their ship. Not all their stuff though.

With starbases, Has anyone here play Armada? Where a specific Building has a specific purpose?
well, I think each Starbase should be outfitted with their own support structures eg. Shipyard for upgrades.
So whoever CAPTURES the Starbase has access to Repairs/Upgrades/Models that Starbase and Shipyard has on offer.

With PvE, I think capturing ships should be allowed but only for salvage. I dont like the idea of a party of low level players suddenly having access to higher level ships then their comrades, i think THATS what could possibly kill off the population that play this game.

Brief Summary PvP - FTW PvE - Limitations and Starbases FTW!!!!!

- CptAwesomatacularistic.

[Phunix]

Ship capture I could accept to a certain extent. It would be like having your ship destroyed basically, you lost your ship, period. But I don't believe that Klingons would prefer to fly in those white saucers, nor would Feds want to trade them in, so a token/reward/tech of some kind for capturing rather than destroying it should be just that, an extra reward, although not the ship itself.

Starbases are another matter. If within a PvP area, then you knew the risk. Starbases outside the predefined PermaPvP areas should be alot safer, but not exempt entirely.
Problem is always, if a player experiences too great a loss of some sort, there is the risk of game-break.

A starbase capture does not have to result in total destruction/obliteration. Alot of times even what seems to be as a total wreck can be restored. And can players own more than a few starbases? Then one is just a strategic, and not total loss.
There are ways to counter if it is total loss, like some form of subsidized rebuild (maybe it was time to overhaul the place anyway) or other form of insurance like compensation.
Cryptic could put in starbase designations, to where you are assigned to a a larger NPC one until you build one yourself. Your first playermade one would always be heavily subsidized.
Once built you get auto-designated to your base, next ones are subsidized by your own starbase (left more to your own devices).

[Kriss]

Hey ... Kool, one of my posts continues to live.LOL :p

We must make the Devs understand!

Long live the Empire!