Space Combat

[9ofClubs]

I was wondering about the space combat.

Will it be 3D? What I mean by this: Will you be able to go under the other ships during combat? Will you have the full range of movement throughout space or will everybody be on the same plane?

I hope I got my meaning across well enough. I just read an article and it made nervous that the Space Combat is all going to be on one plane like fighting on the sea is in pirate games. So that you can go around each other but not over or under.

Can anyone clarify?

[curtst]

From my understanding of it no. The environment will be 3d but you will only be able to maneuver in 2d. This makes sense since there is no dorsal or ventral shielding quadrants. It was on an Ask Cryptic article. I think it is time for them to update their FAQs with this info.

[TFO_KillSwitch]

look threwe the aske criptic post they acerd your question there
http://www.startrekonline.com/dev_blog
dont knwo wich one it is in but some one asked the same question in there some were

[curtst]

I think this is it.

It was explained that interstellar flight will basically be a type of "over world" view. Can we get a further clarification on this? Would this mean that gallivanting around the galaxy will be similar to Pirates of the Burning Sea in that when not engaged in combat or other special case scenarios we will be in an over world view that basically is a sped up version of travel time? Will solar systems and planetary orbits be personalized instances or will everyone be able to enter it without an invitation? Will combat with other ships be instanced that others can join in from the "over world" map?
Yes, in some ways it will be similar. We actually have three levels of maps. There’s the sector space map, which you’ll be in when you’re going across the galaxy and traveling from one system to another. It’s not entirely flat, but also not completely 3D. There are dimensions to it. You’ll see sector grids, planets, solar systems, space stations, nebulas, anomalies and all sorts of different points of interest. You’ll see and interact with other players in sector space. You’ll also be doing a lot of your exploration in sector space. For example, you may be traveling across the galaxy when your com officer suddenly says, “Captain, there’s a distress call!” At that point, you get to follow up on that distress call, enter that system and engage in that mission.
That’s the second level of map. When you go into points of interest the game opens up a 3D space map (or system map) where you can engage in combat. Many of these will be instanced just for you. Some of them will be persistent so that you can go in and other people can join you. For example, there will be a persistent Klingon battlefront where the Klingons are fighting the Romulans. Something will always be going on there and anyone can join in. In instances you can go in alone or your team members can join you.
From system space (either persistent or instanced) you can transport to a ground map, like the surface of a planet or the inside of a space station.

Doesn't really answer it though. Didn't notice that combat in space maybe instanced. Not sure if I like that too much.

We also know that rolls, and flips will not happen in game.

[triguy616]

They answered this already. I can't remember where exactly I saw it; I'll try to find it quick and link. Combat is definitely in 3D. They said specifically that you can go over, under, and all around during combat. The thing they emphasize is that it's about tactics, not flying around real fast like a dogfighter. You can hide behind asteroids, come up from the "bottom" of the flyable space to get a jump on your opponent, etc. Okay, lemme try to find where they said that.

[triguy616]

You can move around and fight in three dimensions, but often players will just naturally choose to keep fairly "level" during combat. Cryptic doesn't "want it to be a dogfight". [CCMG]

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535 (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535)

This is the "Everything we know about STO" Thread. Lots of info here, with links to all the articles. Many, many of the articles reiterate a lot of the same things, so it's pretty reliable. I spent half a day reading/watching all that stuff, and it was well worth the time.

Hope that helps!

[curtst]

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535 (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535)

This is the "Everything we know about STO" Thread. Lots of info here, with links to all the articles. Many, many of the articles reiterate a lot of the same things, so it's pretty reliable. I spent half a day reading/watching all that stuff, and it was well worth the time.

Hope that helps!

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can't loop but you can move above the plane of where your enemy is. So we will be seeing ships raise/lower vertically rather than the nose of the ship pointing in the direction and going like the shows?

I have to see what Cryptic actually said and not just a paraphrase of it.

[triguy616]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can't loop but you can move above the plane of where your enemy is. So we will be seeing ships raise/lower vertically rather than the nose of the ship pointing in the direction and going like the shows?

I have to see what Cryptic actually said and not just a paraphrase of it.

Well, read the articles. There's a lot of information there, use it! They have said that the ship will go where you point it, so no raising/lowering. You point up, you go up.

[TFO_KillSwitch]

they all so sead there will be no looping . you can not do that i remeber that in the irc chat
some one made a reference to brigecommander .if i rember wright they sead not like bc were you could loop a ship and soforth

[Esgar]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can't loop but you can move above the plane of where your enemy is. So we will be seeing ships raise/lower vertically rather than the nose of the ship pointing in the direction and going like the shows?

I have to see what Cryptic actually said and not just a paraphrase of it.
I'm pretty sure your ship will angle up. I have no idea why Cryptic would overlook something so basic and equip every ship with an elevator. You just won't be able to loop-de-loop or barrel roll with said angles as I understand it.

It may just be the trailer, but you can catch some glimpses of the space combat being 3D and how it might concievably work in the final version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Ug52fz5_k

[Azurian]

From what they described in the Dev Chat, space combat was like SFC, but with the additional ability to go up and down in the Z axis. But fighting still fighting in 2d. So you won't be able to come from above and strike the Dorsal Shields or below and strike the Ventral shields, because they don't exist in STO. :(

[Tain]

MOVEMENT is in 3d. Combat is NOT. You can go under or over a ship in combat, however, it grants you nothing. If you are in front of a ship for instance, there is no difference in damage or anything to your target if you shoot it from straight ahead, or 500 meters above- all your shots will still do damage to the front shield quadrant. The game apparently won't care what your altitude on the Z axis is as far as combat goes, its purely for looks.

[curtst]

Then what is the point of putting it in there? I understand why most traveling will be done in 2d. But just add slight 3d movement just to give the appearance of 3d without it really doing anything is just silly. I now see why they said most folks will just keep the ship "fairly level." There won't be a reason to do so other than maybe avoid slow moving projectiles. Did read you can dodge or "shoot down" slower moving projectile weapons like plasma torpedoes.

[maltzenburgerz]

Yes, I would be disappointed if this was the case, it was the use of the Z-Axis that allowed Kirk to get the one up on Khan, and I think it was also used in the "Picard Manuver" along /w Warp of course. X-S

[KODudna]

The only existing games I can think of that had true 3D space combat are the homeworld series. However, it really didn't matter except in the 'cool' factor. The only edge you got was a psychological one (in multiplayer) for outmaneuvering your opponent and taking advantage of 3D space (i.e. coming from above or below). As far as the game mechanics were concerned, it didn't actually change anything. There were no in-game, programmed benefits for attacking the dorsal or ventral surface of a vessel, for example.

This is how STO will be I believe. You can move around in 3D space at least to a degree, but if you are under your enemy and shooting at them, and your phaser blasts are hitting near his prow, then the hits are registered on the forward shields. It still looks cool, but it keeps the gameplay simple enough for most players (i.e. they don't have to manage 6 different shield areas and such), and it reduces the programming back-end. Implementing those systems can take a very long time to get right, and it becomes a game design decision - will most players take advantage of it? The answer is likely not, so the decision was made to go part of the way, still make it look good, and save some work time (and processing time too).

[WarpVis]

Yes, I would be disappointed if this was the case, it was the use of the Z-Axis that allowed Kirk to get the one up on Khan, and I think it was also used in the "Picard Manuver" along /w Warp of course. X-S

I believe that kind of advantage can still be had when dealing with people that do not have an actual lock on you and not bothering to watch up or down.

[curtst]

I am fine with the 2d movement. I expected that from the very beginning, even before Cryptic took the IP over. But don't try to fake 3d movement lol.

From what it sounds like, it might be like Earth & Beyond, you can move "up and down" but it really didn't make a difference and there was only so far you could go, which it wasn't much.

I would love to see a video of them testing the combat system.

[indigowhale345]

Yes, I would be disappointed if this was the case, it was the use of the Z-Axis that allowed Kirk to get the one up on Khan

I must point out this isn't true. While Kirk did win using vertical movement, it wasn't useful by itself. Khan was both moving predictably and blindly. Kirk may as well have had a cloaking device and a time machine, because he knew Khan didn't see him, and he knew where he was going to go, and where his vulnerability was. The z axis alone would have been as useless to exploit as throwing tacos at a tank, because Khan could easily have reacted to the maneuver if he had seen it.

[curtst]

I must point out this isn't true. While Kirk did win using vertical movement, it wasn't useful by itself. Khan was both moving predictably and blindly. Kirk may as well have had a cloaking device and a time machine, because he knew Khan didn't see him, and he knew where he was going to go, and where his vulnerability was. The z axis alone would have been as useless to exploit as throwing tacos at a tank, because Khan could easily have reacted to the maneuver if he had seen it.

Not to mention why move upwards to him to get directly behind him (other than the coolness factor of seeing it happen) when he could have just blasted the bottom of the vessel?

[9ofClubs]

Im afraid this might kill this game for me. If you can not move around in three D then what is the point of a Space simulator. If i wanted 2D fighting i would go play that pirate MMO. I wanted a Space game which is 3D. It is really too bad.

I was really excited about this game when i first heard about it. But as the informtion slowly leaks out, my interest takes hits. This would be the final straw for me. There is no point to have a star trek game where you can not use space to its fullest extent. It almost feels lazy to not include it. I hope that they clarify this with a video or something.

[WarpVis]

My impression was that a combat zone would be huge, and while the z-axis would be considerably smaller than the x or y that it was not going to be insubstantial.

I was under the impression that the combat zone would be shaped somewhat like the zones in CoH. So while most of the travel would be in the X and the Y, the Z would still be present and use of it could represent an advantage over those that do not watch above and below.

[Esgar]

I was really excited about this game when i first heard about it. But as the informtion slowly leaks out, my interest takes hits. This would be the final straw for me. There is no point to have a star trek game where you can not use space to its fullest extent. It almost feels lazy to not include it. I hope that they clarify this with a video or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Ug52fz5_k

That's just the trailer, but ships on all Z-levels can be seen at 1:00. I believe the "2d" fighting thing just arises from the fact that there won't necessarily be a hard coded numerical advantage in attacking from above/below .

[Azurian]

Im afraid this might kill this game for me. If you can not move around in three D then what is the point of a Space simulator. If i wanted 2D fighting i would go play that pirate MMO. I wanted a Space game which is 3D. It is really too bad.

I was really excited about this game when i first heard about it. But as the informtion slowly leaks out, my interest takes hits. This would be the final straw for me. There is no point to have a star trek game where you can not use space to its fullest extent. It almost feels lazy to not include it. I hope that they clarify this with a video or something.

Trust me, a good porition of us wanted true 3D Combat like Bridge Commander. But Cryptic put their foot down and refused to listen. Even though STO would end up being an MMORPG version of Starfleet Command or to others, a space version of Pirates of the Burning Sea.