New Weapons, or new types of armor or shields?

[tpolspock23]

Has anyone heard of any new weapons, or new kinds of shields or armor? I've heard of quantum pulse cannons, phased plasma torpedoes, and new types of shields that can adapt like borg regenerative hull (I mean like federation shields).

[krnr]

yeah with the new explosive tea Torpedo which we call Tepo.

[MajorD]

A Gatling phaser shotgun was mentioned in an article of a preview of STO. There are going to be light and heavy weapons, and weapon you pick up will determine your combat class but not your main skill set. They also mentioned that shields can't stop physical attack, which doesn't make sense.

[overlordthor]

A Gatling phaser shotgun was mentioned in an article of a preview of STO. There are going to be light and heavy weapons, and weapon you pick up will determine your combat class but not your main skill set. They also mentioned that shields can't stop physical attack, which doesn't make sense.

It is weird, because theres an episode where warf juryrigs a shield to protect himself from a bullet, and maybe there are other episodes, but that comes to mind.

[Commander_Nate]

A Gatling phaser shotgun was mentioned in an article of a preview of STO. There are going to be light and heavy weapons, and weapon you pick up will determine your combat class but not your main skill set. They also mentioned that shields can't stop physical attack, which doesn't make sense.

I dunno, in some way I guess it could.

Kevlar is a modern-day example: It'll stop a decent variety of bullets but a knife will go right through it.

[Ajacat]

I think I heard there's going to be new series with a security team using borg technology, or as said on Tpol45's last thread, borg enhanced quantums. There may also be a new type of armor, but I don't know what it's called or what it's made of. Sorry!:(

[Ajacat]

Oh yeah also, I think the borg have adapted to bullets and hand weapons such as batleths and daggers. Not good for the Klingon Empire!

[Loekii]

Has anyone heard of any new weapons, or new kinds of shields or armor? I've heard of quantum pulse cannons, phased plasma torpedoes, and new types of shields that can adapt like borg regenerative hull (I mean like federation shields).

The SoL Menu mentions the standard equipment of the ships listed, so that might be a start -- not a trekkie so I am not sure if any of it is considered 'new'.

Also, ground combat will employ Personal Defense Shields, and 'stasis' field generators.

[Commander_Nate]

I think I heard there's going to be new series with a security team using borg technology, or as said on Tpol45's last thread, borg enhanced quantums. There may also be a new type of armor, but I don't know what it's called or what it's made of. Sorry!:(

Wait what? New series, Borg enhanced weapons? I approved no such thing.

[lvjayman]

It is weird, because theres an episode where warf juryrigs a shield to protect himself from a bullet, and maybe there are other episodes, but that comes to mind.

Its probably there way of allowing hand to hand combat to continue into the game for players (would think a lot of Klingon players) that wish to run in and bash someone. Thats good though, it allows us to learn the double handed punch, the karate chop to the neck, and we can call in our stunt double to do throws and dropkicks for us. :D

[MajorD]

It is weird, because theres an episode where warf juryrigs a shield to protect himself from a bullet, and maybe there are other episodes, but that comes to mind.
Exactly, and they've been shown to be able to make form fitting force fields of other types. Such as in that episode where the Enterprise and a Romulan ship are trapped in a volume of time frozen space and Geordi needed to make personal shields to protect against the effect. So, physical object stopping field, combined with form fitting field, should result in everything stopping field that you can move around with. Even if only a bubble shield were possible, it would allow movement, it just needs to terminate where it meats the ground, allowing traction.
I dunno, in some way I guess it could.

Kevlar is a modern-day example: It'll stop a decent variety of bullets but a knife will go right through it.
Modern vests are good enough they can stop stabs from an ice pick. But, that's an example not of different forces, but of longer duration force and more of the same force focused into a smaller area: 1/2 inch versus less than 1/32 inch.

It's obvious they're forcing melee combat into the game where it doesn't really belong. They could come up with an elaborate system to make it make sense, so what they have strike me as a poor shortcut. Unless, the more comprehensive solutions are incompatible with net code.

[Commander_Nate]

Hand-to-hand fighting results in 100% casualties. Even if you win, you still lose. I know this from both training and experience.

I hope they have that accurately modeled as well.

[MajorD]

Hand-to-hand fighting results in 100% casualties. Even if you win, you still lose. I know this from both training and experience.

I hope they have that accurately modeled as well.
The last bayonet charge was by British troops in Iraq, in about 2006. None of them died, and the enemy fled or were all killed.

[Commander_Nate]

The last bayonet charge was by British troops in Iraq, in about 2006. None of them died, and the enemy fled or were all killed.

How many of them were injured? I'm a former Marine, and I've been in a few barfights in my day. Unless you totally get the drop on somebody you usually end up with some injuries as well.

[Phantomraptor]

Someone said something about the Borg having addapted to hand to hand weapons like daggers and batleths...how so? Everytime we see a Borg conflict and physical attacks are used, they are able to deal damage to the drone in question. They're shields only activate when an energy attack is used. And as far as shields stopping physical attacks, shields can only offer a limited resistance to physical action. Thus why you see shuttles going through shields in some episodes, but with resistance, or ships ramming each other. A good example is the piece of the Romulan Warbird in Nemesis that hit enterprise, the shield deflected most of the hit and lost some power but there was still physical damage. Force fields are what stop physical attacks. But needless to say, if shields could stop physical damange, you think ships would rupture conduits, bulkheads and get power, computer and lifesupport issues?

[MajorD]

How many of them were injured? I'm a former Marine, and I've been in a few barfights in my day. Unless you totally get the drop on somebody you usually end up with some injuries as well.

Bar fights are nasty messes, not that I can say from experience. From what I've gathered from a search for "British bayonet charge", it happened in 2004, Scotts charged 100 rebels, killed 35-20, and only 3 of themselves were lightly injured. The Brits did that outnumbered, because they were nearly out of ammo after three hours of fighting. As a guess, the main difference between this and a bar fight would be organization of at least one side, second would be a clear this side/that side.

The least Cryptic can do is give phasers bayonets considering they're gimping shields and ranged combat.

[Xenoshaft]

I dunno, in some way I guess it could.

Kevlar is a modern-day example: It'll stop a decent variety of bullets but a knife will go right through it.

Yeah, they said the shield dont stop the physical attacys yet. Or something to that effect. Meaning that is still not done. I mean we are talking about the ground combat here . not the space, that part is almost done.

[MajorD]

Yeah, they said the shield dont stop the physical attacys yet. Or something to that effect. Meaning that is still not done. I mean we are talking about the ground combat here . not the space, that part is almost done.

Yet, as in will? I remember reading it as shields don't stop physical attacks because they intended to be that way, not because they haven't gotten to it yet.

It's actually kind of the same in space combat, ramming is going to be extremely deadly against rammed ships but only somewhat harmful to the ramming ship, and only because killed ships always self destruct on death in a way that damages everything around them. Except, the power 'Brace for Impact' blocks ramming damage if you perform it in time. If they were following canon, it would be the other way. Ramming would be instant death to the rammer and rammed, because the rammer needs to violently self destruct on contact, and the rammed is going to end up with a gaping hole replacing most of its hull. Ramming without killing yourself shouldn't do damage to a shielded ship, and if it is unshielded should take a good amount of damage, but not necessarily a deadly amount of damage. If both ships have shields down, then the damage would be equal, or nearly so, as determined by a ration of armor strength or hit points versus the enemy's armor strength or hit points.

[krnr]

Bar fights are nasty messes, not that I can say from experience. From what I've gathered from a search for "British bayonet charge", it happened in 2004, Scotts charged 100 rebels, killed 35-20, and only 3 of themselves were lightly injured. The Brits did that outnumbered, because they were nearly out of ammo after three hours of fighting. As a guess, the main difference between this and a bar fight would be organization of at least one side, second would be a clear this side/that side.

The least Cryptic can do is give phasers bayonets considering they're gimping shields and ranged combat.

lawls bayonets is soo 18th century

[overlordthor]

Yeah, they said the shield dont stop the physical attacys yet. Or something to that effect.

We've seen at least one episode where Warf juryrigs a shield to protect himself from a bullet, if he can juryrig parts in an old western scenario and parts from his commbadge, then a dedicated designer could create a shield to protect someone for an extended period of time.

[lvjayman]

Exactly, and they've been shown to be able to make form fitting force fields of other types. Such as in that episode where the Enterprise and a Romulan ship are trapped in a volume of time frozen space and Geordi needed to make personal shields to protect against the effect. So, physical object stopping field, combined with form fitting field, should result in everything stopping field that you can move around with. Even if only a bubble shield were possible, it would allow movement, it just needs to terminate where it meats the ground, allowing traction.

Modern vests are good enough they can stop stabs from an ice pick. But, that's an example not of different forces, but of longer duration force and more of the same force focused into a smaller area: 1/2 inch versus less than 1/32 inch.

It's obvious they're forcing melee combat into the game where it doesn't really belong. They could come up with an elaborate system to make it make sense, so what they have strike me as a poor shortcut. Unless, the more comprehensive solutions are incompatible with net code.

Well I agree that melee combat when you have energy weapons that can disintegrate your opponent seems a tad foolish, but they might feel they have to add it because it was depicted in the shows so much. This is especially true with Worf using all his Klingon kung fu in all those DS9 episodes, plus Kirk was always willing to get in a brawl (even when it wasn't so smart like against the Gorn :eek:) Me I suscribe to the 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight' club. Heck if I play Klingon I'll be blasting away with a disruptor, not charging people with a sword. And what ever happened to the body armor shown by starship security in ST2 and ST3. That actually looked sensible with plates protecting the front and back torso and a helmet for head protection. Would have come in handy for the DS9 crew when they got boarded by the Klingons during the one big fight.

[tpolspock23]

Someone said something about the Borg having addapted to hand to hand weapons like daggers and batleths...how so? Everytime we see a Borg conflict and physical attacks are used, they are able to deal damage to the drone in question. They're shields only activate when an energy attack is used. And as far as shields stopping physical attacks, shields can only offer a limited resistance to physical action. Thus why you see shuttles going through shields in some episodes, but with resistance, or ships ramming each other. A good example is the piece of the Romulan Warbird in Nemesis that hit enterprise, the shield deflected most of the hit and lost some power but there was still physical damage. Force fields are what stop physical attacks. But needless to say, if shields could stop physical damange, you think ships would rupture conduits, bulkheads and get power, computer and lifesupport issues?

I think they're getting the idea from Voyager when the portable holo-emitter and the borg technology combined to develop "One". I think that the drone had some kind of armor. Maybe Ajacat heard they're using it in the 25th or 26th century.

[tpolspock23]

Yet, as in will? I remember reading it as shields don't stop physical attacks because they intended to be that way, not because they haven't gotten to it yet.

It's actually kind of the same in space combat, ramming is going to be extremely deadly against rammed ships but only somewhat harmful to the ramming ship, and only because killed ships always self destruct on death in a way that damages everything around them. Except, the power 'Brace for Impact' blocks ramming damage if you perform it in time. If they were following canon, it would be the other way. Ramming would be instant death to the rammer and rammed, because the rammer needs to violently self destruct on contact, and the rammed is going to end up with a gaping hole replacing most of its hull. Ramming without killing yourself shouldn't do damage to a shielded ship, and if it is unshielded should take a good amount of damage, but not necessarily a deadly amount of damage. If both ships have shields down, then the damage would be equal, or nearly so, as determined by a ration of armor strength or hit points versus the enemy's armor strength or hit points.

I have the game star trek shattered universe(2003) and the fighters just bounce right off the shields. There was also a Tng episode that had a shuttle bounce off it also. Also, since defiant and prometheus(i think) have ablative armor, they would be affected less by weapons like missiles(if they went back in time) or by collisions.

[Banar]

I have the game star trek shattered universe(2003) and the fighters just bounce right off the shields. There was also a Tng episode that had a shuttle bounce off it also. Also, since defiant and prometheus(i think) have ablative armor, they would be affected less by weapons like missiles(if they went back in time) or by collisions.

Ablative armor is an anti-energy/heat armor that gives little defense versus physical attacks. It is basically layers of a material that disintegrates under those forces and by doing so takes much of the damage that would otherwise affect the hull.

[Phantomraptor]

I think they're getting the idea from Voyager when the portable holo-emitter and the borg technology combined to develop "One". I think that the drone had some kind of armor. Maybe Ajacat heard they're using it in the 25th or 26th century.

That is true in only that case though, as Tuvok said and I quote "curious, his body plating is composed of polydutonic alloy." Which as Seven and the Doctor realized came from the mobile emitter from the 29th Century. The nano probes adapted the alloy. However, the body armor is "Reactive" body armor as stated from Captain Janeway. Reactive armor serves the purpose of decreasing the effect of projectile weapons. As an example, the M1 Abrahms tank often is equipped with reactive armor, and it is used to to lessen the effect of armor piercing shaped charges by way of exploding when the projectile impacts the armor. I'm certain this would help protect One from knives and such, but I doubt impervious to physical attack, in either case, the Borg of the 25th Century will not have that kind of technology unless there is some sort of canon information that says otherwise.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD View Post
Yet, as in will? I remember reading it as shields don't stop physical attacks because they intended to be that way, not because they haven't gotten to it yet.

It's actually kind of the same in space combat, ramming is going to be extremely deadly against rammed ships but only somewhat harmful to the ramming ship, and only because killed ships always self destruct on death in a way that damages everything around them. Except, the power 'Brace for Impact' blocks ramming damage if you perform it in time. If they were following canon, it would be the other way. Ramming would be instant death to the rammer and rammed, because the rammer needs to violently self destruct on contact, and the rammed is going to end up with a gaping hole replacing most of its hull. Ramming without killing yourself shouldn't do damage to a shielded ship, and if it is unshielded should take a good amount of damage, but not necessarily a deadly amount of damage. If both ships have shields down, then the damage would be equal, or nearly so, as determined by a ration of armor strength or hit points versus the enemy's armor strength or hit points.

TPol45 - I have the game star trek shattered universe(2003) and the fighters just bounce right off the shields. There was also a Tng episode that had a shuttle bounce off it also. Also, since defiant and promtheus(i think) have ablative armor, they would be affected less by weapons like missiles(if they went back in time) or by collisions.

You're right, most cases a shuttle and such will bounce off shields, but other TNG and other episodes show ways around that, one is having the same shield frequency, same as when the Klingons in the Genesis movie shot torpedos straight through the shields of the Enterprise D. Another instance to note however which may contradict some expected behavior is the ramming of the Scimitar by the Enterprise E in Nemesis. Enterprise E had no shields virtually and Scimitar had 70% but the damage was just as severe to Nemesis and they lost all weapon power in the process and Enterprise E was not destroyed. So I would have to say the scope of the instance makes a big difference. That being, small ships have much smaller force, especially in shield capabilities, so a shuttle or torpedo unless set to the proper shield frequency would bounce off/impact the shields, but on a ship to ship scale, those forces cause significant physical damage on both ends whether or not shields are active. Armor being the best defense there as in the case of the Scimitar, it had significantly less physical damage however power systems we're significantly damaged causing the use of the Theta Radiation Weapon.

[MajorD]

Well I agree that melee combat when you have energy weapons that can disintegrate your opponent seems a tad foolish, but they might feel they have to add it because it was depicted in the shows so much. This is especially true with Worf using all his Klingon kung fu in all those DS9 episodes, plus Kirk was always willing to get in a brawl (even when it wasn't so smart like against the Gorn :eek:) Me I suscribe to the 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight' club. Heck if I play Klingon I'll be blasting away with a disruptor, not charging people with a sword. And what ever happened to the body armor shown by starship security in ST2 and ST3. That actually looked sensible with plates protecting the front and back torso and a helmet for head protection. Would have come in handy for the DS9 crew when they got boarded by the Klingons during the one big fight.
Star Trek does have loads of melee, but it's mostly when enemies are already pretty close, such as standing together and someone in that group attacking all of a sudden, or walking around a corner and getting punched, or everyone is unarmed so they start throwing fists. So, it didn't even make for a particularly great percentage of the fighting and it generally had its reasons for happening. The way Cryptic has it, we'll probably see melee every single time we get into a fight.

You bring up a good point about armor. If melee were to become common enough because of shields that can't stop objects, then plate armor would make perfect sense. As for the security armor from the movies, I figure phaser technology either got around them, or it was ornamental, or it was an anti-stab and blunt force damage vest. But, if they were armor for knives and bullets, then we would have seen them in, was it, Star Trek 5? They had roll-up plastic shields that could stop bullets. If you can make a bendable plastic that can stop bullets, then you can make an awesome armor that would be all but immune to melee.

Ablative armor is an anti-energy/heat armor that gives little defense versus physical attacks. It is basically layers of a material that disintegrates under those forces and by doing so takes much of the damage that would otherwise affect the hull.
We've seen it work against everything thrown against it, I'm not sure that includes torpedoes, but the Breen had a torpedo or pulse weapon that was used against the Defiant's hull and the hull stood up well enough.

[LegateSovereign]

What about transphase torpedoes and armor that Voyager had in the last episode. Will Cryptic enable us to mount them on our ships in STO?