A very geeky question...

[bav101]

Hi guys, i was watching tv earlier and saw the last episode of TNG where you saw Jean-Luc Picard move into 3 time zones the past present and future, in the future time jump the Enterprise had 3 nacelles and the huge phase cannon, and one of the orders they gave was set course etc warp 13... now i'm gonna assume this is a cruising warp so mebbe max warp for this ship is something around 16 mebbe 17.. also capt beverley crusher's ship the Pasteur was ordered by her captain to set course and hit warp 13.... my question is this, this episode is set 25 years into the future of the series and the game is set alot further into the future, so why are the speeds of the ships not alot faster than the TV shows? because logically ships get faster over time not slow down.. I know i sound geeky but it was a pondering i was having.

[spiderdude1]

Hi guys, i was watching tv earlier and saw the last episode of TNG where you saw Jean-Luc Picard move into 3 time zones the past present and future, in the future time jump the Enterprise had 3 nacelles and the huge phase cannon, and one of the orders they gave was set course etc warp 13... now i'm gonna assume this is a cruising warp so mebbe max warp for this ship is something around 16 mebbe 17.. also capt beverley crusher's ship the Pasteur was ordered by her captain to set course and hit warp 13.... my question is this, this episode is set 25 years into the future of the series and the game is set alot further into the future, so why are the speeds of the ships not alot faster than the TV shows? because logically ships get faster over time not slow down.. I know i sound geeky but it was a pondering i was having.

Dont forget, that future was an alternate future created by Q, so technically it never happened. Its a timetravel thing, dont try to overthink it, it just gives you a headache

[curtst]

Hi guys, i was watching tv earlier and saw the last episode of TNG where you saw Jean-Luc Picard move into 3 time zones the past present and future, in the future time jump the Enterprise had 3 nacelles and the huge phase cannon, and one of the orders they gave was set course etc warp 13... now i'm gonna assume this is a cruising warp so mebbe max warp for this ship is something around 16 mebbe 17.. also capt beverley crusher's ship the Pasteur was ordered by her captain to set course and hit warp 13.... my question is this, this episode is set 25 years into the future of the series and the game is set alot further into the future, so why are the speeds of the ships not alot faster than the TV shows? because logically ships get faster over time not slow down.. I know i sound geeky but it was a pondering i was having.

I always thought that was funny since warp 10 wasn't even supposed to be attainable (which was set into canon by TNG), yet they were able to do 13 lol.

This is why I don't believe canon exists. I mean the series couldn't even maintain their own canon.

[Telinous]

Star Trek is full of time travel and alternate realitys. It is best assumed that by knowing one part of the future it changes that future so as not to exist perhaps by seeing such information, upon returning for any member involved that knowledge changed the development (See the scene between future Spock and Scotty in the newest movie, which resulted in his theory being implemented long before he would have developed it, also it is likely that with his new station he would have never developed the theory as he did originaly aboard the Enterprise)

[bav101]

i agree with all what you guys have said, this surprisingly enough is what i like about star trek, always manages to make you think, but i was thinking more at the aspect of engine evolution, say for example in WW2 the spitfire could manage about 450 mph give or take, now fighter jets today can attain speeds of mach 1.5 and above.

[tonymetpolice]

id always asumed that cause warp 10 isnt attainble without bad side effects (god that was C%$P Voyager episode) that as they kept pushing the warp barrier back the warp cales were revised. so insteadof saying "go to warp 9.99999999638 they revised it "warp 13" i simply an extremely high 9.999.... number. obviuosly that brings its own canon problems!! but thats the only thing that i can think of that fits. maybe bet just to sit back and enjoy it :)

[LordDave]

I can answer the Warp 13 thing easily.

See, Warp 10 is the theoretical limit (broken my tom paris) of warp travel. Warp speeds increase exponentially so the difference between warp 8 and warp 9 is much greater then Warp 7 and Warp 8.
Also, as you get to warp 9.9, 9.99, 9.999, ect... the speeds increase even more. That extra .09 can be a greater speed increase then 0 to Warp 1.

So they could keep saying, "Helm, Warp 9.99999999...." OR they could simply redefine the warp scale so that the Limit is a much higher number.

In case I confused you more:

Imagine Warp 1-10 as a pie cut into 10 pieces. Each slice represents a warp speed. When you use all of the pie, you reach the limit.
Now imagine you cut that pie into 20 pieces. You have the same max speed (which is traveling through every point in the universe at once) BUT you don't have to say Warp 9.5, you just say Warp 19.

Does that make sense?

[bav101]

I can answer the Warp 13 thing easily.

See, Warp 10 is the theoretical limit (broken my tom paris) of warp travel. Warp speeds increase exponentially so the difference between warp 8 and warp 9 is much greater then Warp 7 and Warp 8.
Also, as you get to warp 9.9, 9.99, 9.999, ect... the speeds increase even more. That extra .09 can be a greater speed increase then 0 to Warp 1.

So they could keep saying, "Helm, Warp 9.99999999...." OR they could simply redefine the warp scale so that the Limit is a much higher number.

In case I confused you more:

Imagine Warp 1-10 as a pie cut into 10 pieces. Each slice represents a warp speed. When you use all of the pie, you reach the limit.
Now imagine you cut that pie into 20 pieces. You have the same max speed (which is traveling through every point in the universe at once) BUT you don't have to say Warp 9.5, you just say Warp 19.

Does that make sense?

yeah makes perfect sense, and also saves time when getting your backside handed to you by the great unknown, or the new Klingon ship.

[Ontas]

I always thought that was funny since warp 10 wasn't even supposed to be attainable (which was set into canon by TNG), yet they were able to do 13 lol.


In TOS, the Enterprise exceeded speeds of "warp 10" on a few occasions (usually under the influence of an outside force). The canonical explanation is that the warp speed scale was rescaled sometime between TOS and TNG, so that these speeds were actually below warp 10 based on the TNG scale. I think it's plausible that in the future we saw in "All Good Things," the warp scale had been modified again to allow for greater than warp 10 speeds.

However, that's the in-universe explanation. The real explanation is that the writers were trying to emphasize that this is the future of TNG, and they threw in a bunch of gimmicks to make the advancement obvious. Gags like warp 13, a cloaking Enterprise-D, and demolishing massive Klingon vessels in a couple of shots all seem intended to make the Enterprise "cooler" and more futuristic.

The writers were playing around in an alternate future, one where they didn't have to follow all the rules that they had to stick to for the previous seven years. So they had some fun. I don't think any of the technical details from this alternate future should be over-analyzed.

For all we know, Q crafted this alternate future reality himself based on a series of extrapolated probabilities. Maybe he threw in some of these details just for fun as the writers did in real life, or just to screw with Picard. I think it's safe to say that seeing is not believing when a Q is involved.

[tonymetpolice]

I can answer the Warp 13 thing easily.

See, Warp 10 is the theoretical limit (broken my tom paris) of warp travel. Warp speeds increase exponentially so the difference between warp 8 and warp 9 is much greater then Warp 7 and Warp 8.
Also, as you get to warp 9.9, 9.99, 9.999, ect... the speeds increase even more. That extra .09 can be a greater speed increase then 0 to Warp 1.

So they could keep saying, "Helm, Warp 9.99999999...." OR they could simply redefine the warp scale so that the Limit is a much higher number.

In case I confused you more:

Imagine Warp 1-10 as a pie cut into 10 pieces. Each slice represents a warp speed. When you use all of the pie, you reach the limit.
Now imagine you cut that pie into 20 pieces. You have the same max speed (which is traveling through every point in the universe at once) BUT you don't have to say Warp 9.5, you just say Warp 19.

Does that make sense?

grea tminds think alike ;)

[HittingSmoke]

id always asumed that cause warp 10 isnt attainble without bad side effects (god that was C%$P Voyager episode) that as they kept pushing the warp barrier back the warp cales were revised. so insteadof saying "go to warp 9.99999999638 they revised it "warp 13" i simply an extremely high 9.999.... number. obviuosly that brings its own canon problems!! but thats the only thing that i can think of that fits. maybe bet just to sit back and enjoy it :)

OMG crap episode indeed... and I'm a Voyager fan. The next stage of human evolution is 4 foot long salamanders?

[spiderdude1]

OMG crap episode indeed... and I'm a Voyager fan. The next stage of human evolution is 4 foot long salamanders?

only if you cross the warp threshhold

[funky_jesus]

why doesnt anyone like that episode i thought it was a good one.

[WinterPark1701]

Dont forget, that future was an alternate future created by Q, so technically it never happened. Its a timetravel thing, dont try to overthink it, it just gives you a headache

ya I mean they blew up the Enterprise-D, so unless they're going to rebuild the old girl out of the bits orbiting Nirenda III it seems unlikely that we'll see that uber-awesome Galaxy refit. The one thing however that may come to be is that in "All Good Things" they stated that the Kligons conquered the Romulan Empire which in light of the distruction of Romulas and Remius might actually come to be.

[Archangelwoghd]

The future Enterprise and Pasteur were from an alternate timeline.

[128hoodmario]

Put simply the producers retconned it for later series. There you go lol

[evan.is.weyoun]

The future Enterprise and Pasteur were from an alternate timeline.

However, as noted by the recent Path To...'s, we see that Dr. Crusher is indeed captain of the Pasteur, and that the Olympic class is a very real class, as noted in the Path To...'s and the Countdown comic, which I consider canon.

[bav101]

Yeah there is alot of contradictions in all the series which people put down to an alternate reality, its a good scape goat, specially when the producers and writers are sat down at the conventions and asked why this happened or that happened.

[WinterPark1701]

However, as noted by the recent Path To...'s, we see that Dr. Crusher is indeed captain of the Pasteur, and that the Olympic class is a very real class, as noted in the Path To...'s and the Countdown comic, which I consider canon.

I haven't read the last few but it also seems as if the Kligons my make a move to conquer the Romulans. I'd actually like to see that myself... I've always loved the Klingons.

[Winginit]

It could be

-A new warp scale
-A new type of warp engine
-Slipstream drive. They just kept the term "warp" for simplicity
-That third nacelle might just be there to make the warp field more stable at higher speeds, allowing for a new range of warp factors

If there's nothing official about it, use your imagination.

[Jamisicus6]

Hi guys, i was watching tv earlier and saw the last episode of TNG where you saw Jean-Luc Picard move into 3 time zones the past present and future, in the future time jump the Enterprise had 3 nacelles and the huge phase cannon, and one of the orders they gave was set course etc warp 13... now i'm gonna assume this is a cruising warp so mebbe max warp for this ship is something around 16 mebbe 17.. also capt beverley crusher's ship the Pasteur was ordered by her captain to set course and hit warp 13.... my question is this, this episode is set 25 years into the future of the series and the game is set alot further into the future, so why are the speeds of the ships not alot faster than the TV shows? because logically ships get faster over time not slow down.. I know i sound geeky but it was a pondering i was having.

There once was a time where the warp factor was the same as the number of times faster than the speed of light you went (warp 2 was 2X light). This was in TOS and ENT (ENT had no mentioning of the warp scale being changed as many people thought it impossible to reach warp 10+). However when a ship reached Warp 10 many people said "no we're not having that. We're changing the warp scale." This lead to the Warp factor to light speed ratio getting higher (instead of 1:1 it was more like 3:1 (not actually sure about the exact figures so don't quote me on it)). In All good things TNG episode the Enterprise was said to be doing Warp 13 even though Warp 10 was impossible. Well it is possible that the warp scale was changed once again or that Warp 10+ was achievable and no one had bothered to change the scale again (there was only a 100-ish time gap between the change of the warp factors and the later era of all good things. In STO however we can only assume that the scientists have had their say once again and have changed the scale again (now about 6:1).

Hope that helped.

[bav101]

you guys are pretty damn awesome all the answers have been a great help thank you very much :)

[Bulwark]

I can answer the Warp 13 thing easily.

In case I confused you more:

Imagine Warp 1-10 as a pie cut into 10 pieces. Each slice represents a warp speed. When you use all of the pie, you reach the limit.
Now imagine you cut that pie into 20 pieces. You have the same max speed (which is traveling through every point in the universe at once) BUT you don't have to say Warp 9.5, you just say Warp 19.

Does that make sense?

Um, no that doesn't make any sense at all. Let's go back to the pie....

If you cut the pie into 10 pieces, and you eat 3. Yum. Now you watch your buddy cut their pie into 20 pieces... but they ate 6 slices. Then youre both bragging about how much pie you ate to some stranger, and you're going to lose cause you only ate 3. The stranger has no idea the slices on the second pie were smaller.

So that said... 2 ships are having a race. One of them is travelling at warp 9.5 - and you guessed it - the other travelling at warp 19. Is that now the same amount of pie, or the same warp factor according to your explaination?

I understand what you're saying about the difference that 0.09 or 0.009 makes when you're at warp 9, but your theory of physically passing warp 10 (from the 10 slice pie) doesn't seem to work.

[LordDave]

Um, no that doesn't make any sense at all. Let's go back to the pie....

If you cut the pie into 10 pieces, and you eat 3. Yum. Now you watch your buddy cut their pie into 20 pieces... but they ate 6 slices. Then youre both bragging about how much pie you ate to some stranger, and you're going to lose cause you only ate 3. The stranger has no idea the slices on the second pie were smaller.

So that said... 2 ships are having a race. One of them is travelling at warp 9.5 - and you guessed it - the other travelling at warp 19. Is that now the same amount of pie, or the same warp factor according to your explaination?

I understand what you're saying about the difference that 0.09 or 0.009 makes when you're at warp 9, but your theory of physically passing warp 10 (from the 10 slice pie) doesn't seem to work.

Yes. Yes it is.
Just on different scales.

Now obviously simply dividing the total warp scale into double the numbers isn't a good idea since it doesn't solve the basic problem. I'm sure you can find a scale that will though.

[HittingSmoke]

It could be

-A new warp scale
-A new type of warp engine
-Slipstream drive. They just kept the term "warp" for simplicity
-That third nacelle might just be there to make the warp field more stable at higher speeds, allowing for a new range of warp factors

If there's nothing official about it, use your imagination.

The Constellation class had 4 nacelles and had a maximum speed of warp 9

[Winginit]

The Constellation class had 4 nacelles and had a maximum speed of warp 9

Further into the future, more advanced technology, different methods of doing things...like I said, use your imagination. If you're going to pick and choose points to dispute, at least consider the other points that were made. That third nacelle could be part of a new model of warp engine.

When I don't have the answer, I speculate. Right or wrong, that's all this is.