Progression Through Star Trek Ranks

[dravinian]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would actually like to traverse the Star Trek rank system, even if this means I have to be a crew member for a higher ranking player.....as long as its suitably difficult to reach a higher rank.

You know I would even go so far as to say I would like to see linear game progressions available to players. Those who just want what is on offer, the idea that you are immediately a capt of your own little ship and you get your NPCs and you do your away missions.

And those that want to play within a larger situation where you have to earn your position, work with others on ships etc etc and actually come closer to living the life of an actual Star Trek Federation recruit, not getting to just jump to a command position but having to earn it by working with other players....of course in the early days those other players would have to be NPCs but I seen MMORPGs, some people will race ahead of others, it is natural, I am a student I got nothing to do til Sept 09. If I were playing now i could devote a lot of time to the game, more then people who were working.

Just a though, I would very much like to join as a raw recruit, have to folllow orders and do limited jobs to earn rep and skills to be promoted to higher ranks, until I was actually in command of a small crew of actual players.

[Flatfingers]

Hi, Dafong.

It doesn't look like Cryptic intends to provide anything like the concept you described of players being able to provide content for each other from the earliest ranks. Some players -- they'll probably respond to your post -- are even strongly, strongly opposed to the mere idea that any other player could "tell me what to do in a game."

However, there may be a couple of possibilities for something like what you described.

How do you feel about leading a fleet (Star Trek Online's term for guilds)?

Star Trek Online Executive Producer Craig Zinkievich from a TenTonHammer interview (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64508/page/5):

One of the really cool things about the Trek fans – they have fleets already out there. Trek fan groups called fleets, and they have their order, they have their ranks, they know how to progress through them, and giving them that space in the game where they can do that sort of thing I think is an overlooked part of role playing, but kind of a big part of it in Star Trek.

On the other hand, in that same interview Zinc also said (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64508/page/6):

There will be player admirals in the game, you will be able to achieve the rank of admiral. I doubt that at launch we’ll have it so that you’ll be able to actually task other people with missions in the game. Probably you’ll end up seeing that sort of stuff happening within the fleet system, but not in a game-supported fashion.

Not sure if this helps you, but it's maybe a little information along the lines you were asking about.

--Flatfingers

[dravinian]

Yeah thanks for the info.

I got no problem 'following orders' within the context of Star Trek, because it is a part of the ethos of the genre, working for the greater good. Sure i am not going to take orders on my Wizard in some random fantasy game because it doesn't suit the genre.

Star Trek kinda demands a certain commitment to the Federation as an organisation. perhaps they could add pirates for those people not interested in being part of a larger organisation....even the Klingons are a little stuck with the idea of following the strongest and working for the empire.

[shildkrote]

You saw in the new Star Trek movie that Kirk was on board for five minutes and was promoted to first officer. STO's going to be something like that. :P

[boz75]

As far as we know, there will be no player interactions like that, however I would like to see you start at the lower ranks making your way up. For example starting off as a cadet on the tutorial (Starfleet academy?), then progressing a career something along the lines of Ensign, Lt, Lt-Cmdr, Cmdr, Captain, Admiral and gaining access to the next classes of starships along the way as you progress.
It doesn't conflict with anything as you can stil be captain with one of these ranks - even as an ensign you can start off with a runabout type vessel for the very early stages of the game perhaps.

[Telinous]

You saw in the new Star Trek movie that Kirk was on board for five minutes and was promoted to first officer. STO's going to be something like that. :P

Keep in mind that when a ship is produced and veteran crew are already assigned to their current vessels, raw recruits will be trained and tasked with that new vessel. In the scenario set it sounds like both the Klingon Empire and the Federation will be cranking out ships at a massive level, meaning that all recruits from the acadamy will be assigned to a lighter class ship in all respective roles including captain so as to quickly add the ship to the line rather then reducing the effectiveness of one ship by removing veteran crew and replacing them with raw recruits who still need to learn the ins and outs of actual fleet operation.

In other words it makes perfect sense for a small ship to be tasked with a newly trained crew and bridge crew to gain experience while the ships of the line are tasked with the battle hardened veterans who know their positions so intimately that they are able to preform the same tasks at a alarming speed.

[Drexxus3d]

Following orders doesn't have to be about RPing, raids have a hierarchy and leader who tells everyone what to do in any game. Having a bunch of player crewman serving aboard a large ship under the command of a captain wouldn't be much different.

Some players might prefer that role instead of wanting to move up to captain their own ships too.

In my experience, very few players actually want to lead other players, and most of the ones that do want to lead just want the power and end up being poor leaders as far as organization and how they handle situations. Most people are more than content just following their orders and doing their small tasks that are part of the much bigger picture that only the captain really has to manage.

I think the biggest problem with having that style of gameplay is lack of diversity and options.

I mean in a fantasy game, healers cast various types of heals on their allies to keep them alive such as regrowth, rejuv, nourish, healing touch, swiftmend, wild growth (resto druid spells). It has a certain level of diversity and strategy, and who and how you heal changes somewhat depending on the encounter because different people take differing amounts of damage and such.

Meanwhile if you had player engineers, how exactly would they play? Having different types of "heals" they cast on various stations and objects in engineering would feel a little copy-and-pasted and the fact the scenery never changes and you're always doing roughly the same thing regardless of the encounter, people might get bored with it.

I've tried to imagine that type of playstyle before and how it could be implemented, and I basically came up with in the engineering room you have the warp core, then all over the ship you've got plasma conduits and circuits and isolinear chips. When something breaks, you gotta run to where it is and basically cast a heal on it to repair it. I can just see it now, having the chief engineer constantly analyzing an overview of the ship's damaged systems and shouting out orders on a voice-program telling who to go where to optimize repair times. Being an engineer would require a lot of running around. Perhaps you'd have to replicate damaged parts to carry with you and actually remove the old part, then install the new one in some situations instead of a simple "cast repair".

I dunno, it could be fun but i'm not sure people would want to spend all their time doing that. Then theres the issue of what do engineer players DO when the ship isn't in combat? Basically just roam the corridors of the ship, maybe mess around on the holodeck or goto the mess hall and hang out.


Security officers would have it even worse, the ONE tactical bridge officer handles firing and targeting, the others would be simple security. They would have prettymuch nothing to do most of the time, unless the ship was being boarded by hostiles or if they were sent in to attack another ship or on a ground mission.

And as far as STO, where your only option ever would be playing a bridge officer, and considering the ships have no interiors, you'd be even more bored.

Playing as crew on a ship just isn't viable in a game unless most of the game revolves around that fact, if it was half-assed in as a gimmick it would be terrible. They'd have to spend enormous amounts of development time on a FULL ship interior, all sections, all decks, then all the different "destructable" places in the ship and all the individual spare parts you'd need to replace and so on. STO is more focused on you playing your "ship" as your character, not an actual character inside the ship and away missions are more like just controlling a couple pets. STO would never be a good game to play as crew in.

[Mono75]

As far as we know, there will be no player interactions like that, however I would like to see you start at the lower ranks making your way up. For example starting off as a cadet on the tutorial (Starfleet academy?), then progressing a career something along the lines of Ensign, Lt, Lt-Cmdr, Cmdr, Captain, Admiral and gaining access to the next classes of starships along the way as you progress.
It doesn't conflict with anything as you can stil be captain with one of these ranks - even as an ensign you can start off with a runabout type vessel for the very early stages of the game perhaps.

That’s how I also see it! In the process you get more responsibility you start with a small Transport ship then Runabout and you learn how to command and lead people (Missions with the Away Team).

[tonymetpolice]

i definetly want to see being an admiral having huge benefits in terms of access to high end equipment/crews, your own living quarters at a space staton etc.


gives you something to work toward

[Casta_Rasa]

We'll be able to do away missions in small groups, but does that mean we can do missions together? For example, if we get a mission from starfleet which involves travelling across space to a planet and then beaming down. Does that mean travelling with each ship and then some sort of interface to choose who will beam down out of both players and their npc's???

[The-Traveler]

The way I hope it'll be is that when you first enter the game you choose a profession and begin training(leveling) thru quests. So maybe Level 0 is Ensign then LvL 15 is Lt. JG, then LvL 25 is Lt. But, anyone incharge of a ship regardless of rank is regarded as Captain on that ship. So, ranks would be like levels I hope.

[wanobi22]

Following orders doesn't have to be about RPing, raids have a hierarchy and leader who tells everyone what to do in any game. Having a bunch of player crewman serving aboard a large ship under the command of a captain wouldn't be much different.

Some players might prefer that role instead of wanting to move up to captain their own ships too.

In my experience, very few players actually want to lead other players, and most of the ones that do want to lead just want the power and end up being poor leaders as far as organization and how they handle situations. Most people are more than content just following their orders and doing their small tasks that are part of the much bigger picture that only the captain really has to manage.

I think the biggest problem with having that style of gameplay is lack of diversity and options.

I mean in a fantasy game, healers cast various types of heals on their allies to keep them alive such as regrowth, rejuv, nourish, healing touch, swiftmend, wild growth (resto druid spells). It has a certain level of diversity and strategy, and who and how you heal changes somewhat depending on the encounter because different people take differing amounts of damage and such.

Meanwhile if you had player engineers, how exactly would they play? Having different types of "heals" they cast on various stations and objects in engineering would feel a little copy-and-pasted and the fact the scenery never changes and you're always doing roughly the same thing regardless of the encounter, people might get bored with it.

I've tried to imagine that type of playstyle before and how it could be implemented, and I basically came up with in the engineering room you have the warp core, then all over the ship you've got plasma conduits and circuits and isolinear chips. When something breaks, you gotta run to where it is and basically cast a heal on it to repair it. I can just see it now, having the chief engineer constantly analyzing an overview of the ship's damaged systems and shouting out orders on a voice-program telling who to go where to optimize repair times. Being an engineer would require a lot of running around. Perhaps you'd have to replicate damaged parts to carry with you and actually remove the old part, then install the new one in some situations instead of a simple "cast repair".

I dunno, it could be fun but i'm not sure people would want to spend all their time doing that. Then theres the issue of what do engineer players DO when the ship isn't in combat? Basically just roam the corridors of the ship, maybe mess around on the holodeck or goto the mess hall and hang out.


Security officers would have it even worse, the ONE tactical bridge officer handles firing and targeting, the others would be simple security. They would have prettymuch nothing to do most of the time, unless the ship was being boarded by hostiles or if they were sent in to attack another ship or on a ground mission.

And as far as STO, where your only option ever would be playing a bridge officer, and considering the ships have no interiors, you'd be even more bored.

Playing as crew on a ship just isn't viable in a game unless most of the game revolves around that fact, if it was half-assed in as a gimmick it would be terrible. They'd have to spend enormous amounts of development time on a FULL ship interior, all sections, all decks, then all the different "destructable" places in the ship and all the individual spare parts you'd need to replace and so on. STO is more focused on you playing your "ship" as your character, not an actual character inside the ship and away missions are more like just controlling a couple pets. STO would never be a good game to play as crew in.

Yeah, I agree. While the idea is nice to want to earn your rank and position of captain of a ship, its just not feasible in an MMO to have *all that*. The game is going tp be big enough as it is with just the numerous ships we'll likely be able to choose from. It will likely play like all of the other star trek games, like Dominion Wars and Legacy, but (I hope to all that is holy) in a far better manner.

And again, as you said, people do not like to take orders from other people, especially over the internet/in a game and such. While teamwork is a universal concept, I even have a hard time in the other games I play trying to get others to do what I need them to do. (like to watch my back with an SMG while I sit back in a nice position with a sniper rifle.) And roleplay is not enough to entertain anybody in the slightest, even if some of us prefer Mr. Scott over Captain Kirk.

[WinterPark1701]

The way I hope it'll be is that when you first enter the game you choose a profession and begin training(leveling) thru quests. So maybe Level 0 is Ensign then LvL 15 is Lt. JG, then LvL 25 is Lt. But, anyone incharge of a ship regardless of rank is regarded as Captain on that ship. So, ranks would be like levels I hope.

If I recall they've already said that rank won't necessarily be tied to level. I like the idea of having the choice to forgo promotions to receive things like additional equipment, crew, training, ect ect ect. Personally, I find rank to be hugely overrated any way, there are so many other more interesting things to pursue.

[Sobekeus]

We are all going to be postgraduate USS Valiants basically.