Carriers in Star Trek?

[copyrights]

I am not saying I dont like the idea. I just don’t seem to remember seeing any carriers in the series. I remember seeing small fighters, mainly on DS9, I always assumed they were launched from star bases though. Can anyone cite an episode in which one was shown?

[ransomwk]

Carriers were never shown. Those fighters were either carried in regular ships, unseen/unmentioned carriers, or they flew on their own from a base.

The Akira was intended by its designer to be a through deck carrier, but that idea was set aside after the CGI people for First Contact made it a torpedo boat.

[marscentral]

I can't think of a canon example, though there was the USS Typhon in Star Trek: Invasion for the PS1. I really liked the Valkyries. I do have carrier envy of the Klingons at the moment.

[marscentral]

Carriers were never shown. Those fighters were either carried in regular ships, unseen/unmentioned carriers, or they flew on their own from a base.

The Akira was intended by its designer to be a through deck carrier, but that idea was set aside after the CGI people for First Contact made it a torpedo boat.

Can't believe I forgot the Akira. Yes, it was intended to be a carrier and some of the schematics show it as one. It's not shown as one on screen, but it's not refuted either.

[DanSeale]

I am not saying I dont like the idea. I just don’t seem to remember seeing any carriers in the series. I remember seeing small fighters, mainly on DS9, I always assumed they were launched from star bases though. Can anyone cite an episode in which one was shown?

I don't believe that the carriers were ever shown. I DO believe that they were neccessary though. (It jsut kinda stands to reason). I'm messin' with a couple ideas to offer as suggestions. Should have them ready soon.

[JacobFlowers]

I am not saying I dont like the idea. I just don’t seem to remember seeing any carriers in the series. I remember seeing small fighters, mainly on DS9, I always assumed they were launched from star bases though. Can anyone cite an episode in which one was shown?

One could argue that the Scimitar in Nemesis was an assault carrier. It had a full compliment of fighters on board.

I would go to Star Trek Conventions when I was younger (like 10 haha) and would always buy these books on federation starships specifications and such. Two such books featured several federation carriers. THEY WERE COOL!

[renderpix]

I am not saying I dont like the idea. I just don’t seem to remember seeing any carriers in the series. I remember seeing small fighters, mainly on DS9, I always assumed they were launched from star bases though. Can anyone cite an episode in which one was shown?

DS9 episode "A Time to Stand" USS Shelley NCC-45610 (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/32581/view/shelley_ncc_45610_/) canon reference for Thru-Deck Carrier
I knew I remembered seeing one in ENT but only for a brief segment without much story behind it.
Reference
Star Trek Chronology (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/chronology.html)
about 3/4 down the page.

There are other Thru-Deck Carriers here Star Trek U.F.P. and Starfleet - Thru-Deck Carriers (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/)

So we have one canon refrerence to carriers, I think less than a minute :p
I'll load up the DVD and see..... lol

edit - DVD update, It is shown in the first 30 seconds of the episode to port and aft of NCC-42111 The USS Fredrickson Excelsior-class being towed, The Shelley is in the right of the screen an only shows for about 4 or 5 seconds. Will need to watch the entire episode to see it it appears again,

[Azurian]

I am not saying I dont like the idea. I just don’t seem to remember seeing any carriers in the series. I remember seeing small fighters, mainly on DS9, I always assumed they were launched from star bases though. Can anyone cite an episode in which one was shown?

Yes, the Federation had the Peregrine. But they weren't brought in on Carriers, but instead they were brought in the shuttlebays of the ships within the Fleet.

The closest cannonically we have is the Scimitar in how it had dozens of Scorpion attack flyers in the Shuttle bay. The next closest was the original intentions of the Akira be a carrier / gunship. Unfortunately, that capability was never shown.

[MajorD]

There is only one carrier in all of Star Trek actually called a carrier, other than the CVN-65, and that is the Kazon Carrier (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Kazon_carrier_vessel). However, it never acted like a carrier, it was always used in a direct fire mode.
DS9 episode "A Time to Stand" USS Shelley NCC-45610 (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/32581/view/shelley_ncc_45610_/) canon reference for Thru-Deck Carrier
I knew I remembered seeing one in ENT but only for a brief segment without much story behind it.
Reference
Star Trek Chronology (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/chronology.html)
about 3/4 down the page.

There are other Thru-Deck Carriers here Star Trek U.F.P. and Starfleet - Thru-Deck Carriers (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/)

So we have one canon refrerence to carriers, I think less than a minute :p
I'll load up the DVD and see..... lol

edit - DVD update, It is shown in the first 30 seconds of the episode to port and aft of NCC-42111 The USS Fredrickson Excelsior-class being towed, The Shelley is in the right of the screen an only shows for about 4 or 5 seconds. Will need to watch the entire episode to see it it appears again,

There is no such reference to a carrier in the episode DS9:"A Time to Stand (http://forums.startrekonline.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=659838)". The Shelley class exists in the shows, but it is never seen to be and never referenced as a carrier of any sort. But, you have the video, so you can tell me if it showed it self to be a through deck carrier.


The closest cannonically we have is the Scimitar in how it had dozens of Scorpion attack flyers in the Shuttle bay. The next closest was the original intentions of the Akira be a carrier / gunship. Unfortunately, that capability was never shown.
I think the Scorpion was mainly for ground attack. The Akira's shuttles bays, depending on various scaling are probably too small to act as shuttle bay access. Considering the fact that the three forward rectangles glow in every iteration, I believe they are in fact windows for a Ten Forward like room.

[TruthSeer]

I think the Scorpion was mainly for ground attack. The Akira's shuttles bays, depending on various scaling are probably too small to act as shuttle bay access. Considering the fact that the three forward rectangles glow in every iteration, I believe they are in fact windows for a Ten Forward like room.

The windows could also have been an effect/feature added after the decision that it wouldn't be a carrier was made. That was the ship didn't have an odd looking opening running through the saucer.

[DanSeale]

Yes, the Federation had the Peregrine. But they weren't brought in on Carriers, but instead they were brought in the shuttlebays of the ships within the Fleet.

The closest cannonically we have is the Scimitar in how it had dozens of Scorpion attack flyers in the Shuttle bay. The next closest was the original intentions of the Akira be a carrier / gunship. Unfortunately, that capability was never shown.

IMHO the fact that there were LARGE numbers of fighters used in DS-9 ( by that I mean not so much as freequently .. but when they were used .. larger numbers) ... indicates to me that there had to have been another means other than just off of shuttle bays.

I DON'T believe that there HUGE numbers of carriers .. in fact quite the opposite... only a hand full. In the first place I don't that the Federation would have had the time to build more than two or three. And the probablility is that as a result the fighters were launhced far enough away not to put the carriers at risk.

YES this is most DEFINATELY speculation AT BEST... but it also makes sense.

Were SOME of the fighters launched off of shuttle bays from larger ships (ie: Galaxie class) .. unquestionably... but not EXCULSIVELY ..

Just my own thoughts ...

[Father_Origin]

Many of the large space fights featured in DS9 had large numbers of attack shuttles, they had to come from
somewhere.

also in the last movie, that Reman ship had a large amount of fighters.

carriers are the given, even if unseen

[THORN74]

Yes, the Federation had the Peregrine. But they weren't brought in on Carriers, but instead they were brought in the shuttlebays of the ships within the Fleet.

The closest cannonically we have is the Scimitar in how it had dozens of Scorpion attack flyers in the Shuttle bay. The next closest was the original intentions of the Akira be a carrier / gunship. Unfortunately, that capability was never shown.

agreed, the Scimitar in Nemesis could be argued to be a carrier or at the very least a carrier/battleship. while it was never called so on screen, the shear volume of fighter craft in the ship would almost certianly class her as a carrier.

[LebowskyBob]

Carriers were never shown. Those fighters were either carried in regular ships, unseen/unmentioned carriers, or they flew on their own from a base.

The Akira was intended by its designer to be a through deck carrier, but that idea was set aside after the CGI people for First Contact made it a torpedo boat.

Actually, there are fore and aft shuttle-bay doors, so the Akira is likely BOTH a carrier and torpedo boat. Its a starship after all, no reason it can't multi-task ;)

[mwood1387]

Lets not forget the Son'a ship in Insurrection which launched fighters to the planets surface to deploy transporter taggers and bombard the caves Picard and the Baku were taking refuge in.

This new Klingon carrier makes a lot of sense if you look at it during a war-time perspective. The Klingons will most likely want to capture Federation planets and outposts and aren't in the habit of using diplomacy to do it. When attacking the surface they probably wouldn't want to destroy the infrastructure nor wipe out the entire population (if only to preserve any information/secrets/technology they may be after) so planetary bombardment would be a little too crude and unwieldy. Having larger ships in the atmosphere would make the ships sluggish and easy targets for planetside defenses. The obvious solution is to deploy nimble, small fighters that can handle well in an atmosphere and don't carry the sheer destructive force of a capital ship. Carriers are the surgeon with a scalpel where as the Negh'var type ships are boxers with big red gloves.

Don't assume I'm suggesting space-to-surface conflicts [in STO] however. I was just pointing out that within the ST universe there is a need for carriers not to mention proof of their existence.

I'd also be tempted to call Suliban Cell-ships fighters as they're only big enough for one pilot and fly in swarms. Too bad they don't seem to have a carrier. (Although in one episode I remember a Suliban freighter deploying a couple of them although that doesn't count much as the cell ships are like limpets and can use anything as a carrier).

[Teleon]

I’m not so sure the Federation would make use of Fighter craft Carriers; as such vessels typically require escorts. Starfleet is not primarily a military organization. Moreover, Star Fleet ship design has typically been in that of self sufficient vessels. It really would not make too much sense for the Federation to change their philosophy in this regard.

I would surmise that the Federation would however need support vessels capable of providing repairs, medical support, logistics, ship to ship protection, perhaps in the form of extended shielding and other tasks that a typical Star Fleet task force lacks. Maybe even such a ship would have a point defense system superior to that of the typical Star Fleet Vessel; as a countermeasure to small attack craft and Troop Transports.

Anyway, even if Star Fleet were to build and implement Carriers into the fleet; it would be in my opinion as a direct response to the impending war with the Klingon Empire.

[DarkOrion69]

II was thinking about Carriers and Fighters from a Starfleet tactical standpoint. Here are some of my thoughts, feel free to enjoy and comment on them.

1. Transporter technology would allow rapid force deployment and thus landing troops would not require Fighter cover. This makes fighters lose some of their tactical use.

2. Carriers are usually extremely large and require immense well trained crews to maintain combat effectiveness. Starfleet might be reluctant to assign a few thousand officers to a single combat asset.

3. The resources required to build a Carrier and it's Fighter complement would be incredible. This would mean only major galactic powers could afford to build them and run them.

4. The tactical importance of a Carrier as a mobile HQ would make them priority targets from enemy armadas. They would require support fleets that would be tied up merely defending the Carrier, reducing the vessels available for attacking the enemy.

5. If Carriers were a significant Starfleet asset, I think they would have been launched into the Battle of Wolf 359 and used in the Dominion War. Imho, their absence means that they are either non-existent or not a primary tactical presence in combat operations.

6. Perhaps Starfleet mothballs a few Carriers in secret locations in case of war erupting? Such war based vessels, though necessary in war perhaps, would be politically unappealing to Federation citizens.

7. The only roles I can see for a Starfleet Carrier would be for space superiority (interdiction) and to launch fighters to disable transporter jamming devices allowing direct force deployment.

Writing this post has made me consider something new. Wouldn't a new series about two Super-Carriers (one Klingon and one Starfleet) seeking each other out in a huge war be interesting? Think Battlestar Galactica but with more of a Wing Commander vibe(an old game I am referencing admittedly)f. Plenty of time for deep characters, stories, and fast paced space combat.

[Kyias]

I think the natural progression to carrier type starships in Star Trek is an inevitable deal. The series typically followed Earth based naval experiences (even mentioned, exchanged shots and reacted like 18th-21st century naval encounters.)

Star Trek was based off of battleships, cruisers and destroyers. It is only natural that the Carrier element of warfare would be implemented eventually. Even in some of the DS9 episodes we could see Vorcha-class starships with Birds-of-prey beneath them like a carrier mentality. Admittedly, it wasn't a fully developed idea, but that was the symbolism behind that formation.

I find it natural that the Klingons, who used that type of combat and formations would develop a carrier based starship to make that style of combat more effective.

[renef78]

1. Transporter technology would allow rapid force deployment and thus landing troops would not require Fighter cover. This makes fighters lose some of their tactical use.

That doesn't strike me as a viable option. I can't see them ever being able to redeploy an entire army to avoid air fire like that. For one, we've seen how long it takes them to transport just a couple hundred people. Transporter pads come with six spots, and they only have so many transporter rooms. An army of tens of thousands would be impossible to move quickly, even with transporters. Secondly, it'd require that their shields be down. So if they're engaged in battle in orbit, then they can't drop their shields in order to reposition their troops. In which case, their ground troops are vulnerable to aircraft in the atmosphere strafing them.

[Kyias]

That doesn't strike me as a viable option. I can't see them ever being able to redeploy an entire army to avoid air fire like that. For one, we've seen how long it takes them to transport just a couple hundred people. Transporter pads come with six spots, and they only have so many transporter rooms. An army of tens of thousands would be impossible to move quickly, even with transporters. Secondly, it'd require that their shields be down. So if they're engaged in battle in orbit, then they can't drop their shields in order to reposition their troops. In which case, their ground troops are vulnerable to aircraft in the atmosphere strafing them.

Exactly. When you are in pitched combat over a planet, you are not going to drop your shields to beam people down to the surface. It would be a very foolish and suicidal maneuver.

Upon beaming down, you also have the problem of the enemy seeing you beam down and attacking you during that first minute you are trying to figure out your surroundings, which direction to go, finding cover etc. The setup time you give the enemy by doing that is incredible.

[Azurian]

I think the Scorpion was mainly for ground attack. The Akira's shuttles bays, depending on various scaling are probably too small to act as shuttle bay access. Considering the fact that the three forward rectangles glow in every iteration, I believe they are in fact windows for a Ten Forward like room.

As far as I know, there is no mention of ground asssults. Everything I see says it's and "attack" craft.

As for the Akira, I have seen the actual CGI of the Akira on Doug Drexler's Blog and that definitely isn't a window. :p

IMHO the fact that there were LARGE numbers of fighters used in DS-9 ( by that I mean not so much as freequently .. but when they were used .. larger numbers) ... indicates to me that there had to have been another means other than just off of shuttle bays.

I DON'T believe that there HUGE numbers of carriers .. in fact quite the opposite... only a hand full. In the first place I don't that the Federation would have had the time to build more than two or three. And the probablility is that as a result the fighters were launhced far enough away not to put the carriers at risk.

YES this is most DEFINATELY speculation AT BEST... but it also makes sense.

Were SOME of the fighters launched off of shuttle bays from larger ships (ie: Galaxie class) .. unquestionably... but not EXCULSIVELY ..

Just my own thoughts ...

Well they do have their own Warp Drives, so yes they could've flown in on their own. But due to their size, they could easily fit in the Shuttle Bays of even the smallest starship (except the Defiant-class).

agreed, the Scimitar in Nemesis could be argued to be a carrier or at the very least a carrier/battleship. while it was never called so on screen, the shear volume of fighter craft in the ship would almost certianly class her as a carrier.

Indeed. Because we all know that a Single Galaxy-class starship could easily carry dozens of those Scorpion attack craft, or a squadron's worth of Peregrine-class fighters in the shuttle bay. (Let's not forget how large the Sovereign's is.) And we don't call them "carriers". ;)

[Kudos17]

Carriers, though not shown as cannon, kick ass period. Good show Cryptic!!!

[DarkOrion69]

That doesn't strike me as a viable option. I can't see them ever being able to redeploy an entire army to avoid air fire like that. For one, we've seen how long it takes them to transport just a couple hundred people. Transporter pads come with six spots, and they only have so many transporter rooms. An army of tens of thousands would be impossible to move quickly, even with transporters. Secondly, it'd require that their shields be down. So if they're engaged in battle in orbit, then they can't drop their shields in order to reposition their troops. In which case, their ground troops are vulnerable to aircraft in the atmosphere strafing them.

Picture a Federation assault vessel that consists largely of armor, shields, multiple warp cores for power, and row after row of transporter pads. This Troop Assault Carrier could land thousands of troops in seconds. If transportation is jammed, launch pattern enhancement probes into the insertion point. Those probes could be modified to adjust variably for shield harmonics to ensure their effectiveness. You could even beam armed photon torpedoes into an enemy vessel in this fashion. The probes would be vulnerable to pint defense fire though and that might require fighter cover for the probes.

[Tribbler]

The good thing about the future.

You do not have to live by "canon", you can make your own.
(You do however, need to follow the guidelines of what has been written and shown for the timeframe you are in, in the future though).

For instance, it was seen in the last Star Trek TNG Episode, where the Humans and Klingons were at war, and Captain Ryker was flying a Warp 10 capable ship named (what else?) the Enerprise, blasting from the bottom and tearing up a Klingon ship as it passed through the debris.

This version was at about the same time frame that STO will be entering (2409). This in MHO would be "canononical". and I would want it represented in STO.

If it hasn't been seen in any of the past episodes and no reference has been made to it, then it is fair game to be made into "STO game canon".

Of course, this would assume that sometime after "Nemesis", the Klingons felt the need for such a ship and the Federation did not.

To balance the game though, the Federation will have something that is just as imaginative and impressive.

That is the reason why there is no canon mention of it.

The future is grand, you do not have to go by 'canon". The endless possibilities are for the writers, artists, and of course all the license holders.

[DanSeale]

The good thing about the future.

You do not have to live by "canon", you can make your own.
(You do however, need to follow the guidelines of what has been written and shown for the timeframe you are in, in the future though).

For instance, it was seen in the last Star Trek TNG Episode, where the Humans and Klingons were at war, and Captain Ryker was flying a Warp 10 capable ship named (what else?) the Enerprise, blasting from the bottom and tearing up a Klingon ship as it passed through the debris.

This version was at about the same time frame that STO will be entering (2409). This in MHO would be "canononical". and I would want it represented in STO.

If it hasn't been seen in any of the past episodes and no reference has been made to it, then it is fair game to be made into "STO game canon".

Of course, this would assume that sometime after "Nemesis", the Klingons felt the need for such a ship and the Federation did not.

To balance the game though, the Federation will have something that is just as imaginative and impressive.

That is the reason why there is no canon mention of it.

The future is grand, you do not have to go by 'canon". The endless possibilities are for the writers, artists, and of course all the license holders.

I agree bud .... well said .. keeping things in their perspective !

;)

Also :

Azurain: I agree that those fighters may have came, in part from other ships .... I'm just ruling out the probability of a Fed carrier. I have 3 concept models for carriers I'm working on .. I hope this thread stays alive that long .. I'll post some screenies of "possibilities".

I do believe there should and probably will be a Fed ship equal to the task. A carrier though .. dunno .. depends upon Cryptics intent. If for some reason there is NOT a Fed carrier .. there should be adequate coutermeasures such as gatling phasers (or at least Cryptics version ... )

[Tribbler]

I agree bud .... well said .. keeping things in their perspective !

;)

Also :

Azurain: I agree that those fighters may have came, in part from other ships .... I'm just ruling out the probability of a Fed carrier. I have 3 concept models for carriers I'm working on .. I hope this thread stays alive that long .. I'll post some screenies of "possibilities".

I do believe there should and probably will be a Fed ship equal to the task. A carrier though .. dunno .. depends upon Cryptics intent. If for some reason there is NOT a Fed carrier .. there should be adequate coutermeasures such as gatling phasers (or at least Cryptics version ... )

Or make the ship itself so weak that the only thing the fighters will do effectively, is to provide a defense screen around the carrier.

If you send the fighters out, the carrier will be defenseless possibly?

[DanSeale]

Or make the ship itself so weak that the only thing the fighters will do effectively, is to provide a defense screen around the carrier.

If you send the fighters out, the carrier will be defenseless possibly?

Ive seen some advanced versions in one of the SFC games ( X ships ) that made good escorts .. I would fly as many as 3 ships at a time ... one command ship (The XCA my fav) . with a pair of CLC's or 1 CLC and XDD combination) .. deadly !

Just the same .. your point is well taken.

hmmmm

ya know .. there is ONE hull design that has been suggested that just MIGHT work with multiple rolls both as a heavy escort .. OR a good light crusier capable of as acting a command ship as well. Of coures it would need some updated specs, weapons .. and a NEW hull design ... BUT it could be done !

;)

:D

[Paulo999]

DS9 episode "A Time to Stand" USS Shelley NCC-45610 (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/32581/view/shelley_ncc_45610_/) canon reference for Thru-Deck Carrier
I knew I remembered seeing one in ENT but only for a brief segment without much story behind it.
Reference
Star Trek Chronology (http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/chronology.html)
about 3/4 down the page.

There are other Thru-Deck Carriers here Star Trek U.F.P. and Starfleet - Thru-Deck Carriers (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-thru-deck-carriers/)

So we have one canon refrerence to carriers, I think less than a minute :p
I'll load up the DVD and see..... lol

edit - DVD update, It is shown in the first 30 seconds of the episode to port and aft of NCC-42111 The USS Fredrickson Excelsior-class being towed, The Shelley is in the right of the screen an only shows for about 4 or 5 seconds. Will need to watch the entire episode to see it it appears again,

right of that start of season 6 of DS9 :P , first time i saw it i liked at it thinking "wtf is that?"

[renderpix]

There is no such reference to a carrier in the episode DS9:"A Time to Stand (http://forums.startrekonline.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=659838)". The Shelley class exists in the shows, but it is never seen to be and never referenced as a carrier of any sort. But, you have the video, so you can tell me if it showed it self to be a through deck carrier.


Guess I made it all up then. Follow the links yourself the info is there, As for did it show itself to be a thru deck carrier, you have access to the video also go watch it, but if you have not done the research or know what to look for you just see another strange ship that's not showing itself to be anything, well it's crusing so what is it then a crusier, the other is being tractored so does that make it a tractor. How does something show itself to be antything, by maybe launching fighters. it's not a battle scene and most likely all destroyed or deployed being surrounded by damaged ships having damage itself but there are quite a few fighters in escort I believe, but the weren't fighting.

If you want to say it does not exist fine, others that can take the time to read and watch a vid and have some degree of ship recoginization will see that it does.

right of that start of season 6 of DS9 :P , first time i saw it i liked at it thinking "wtf is that?"

Finding out what it was is not easy, but looking for what ships exist when it came to carriers lead back to it mostly by what someone before researched and the 3view.
First time I saw it I was wondering why it was flying backwards thinking they really got their butt kicked... lol

[MajorD]

The windows could also have been an effect/feature added after the decision that it wouldn't be a carrier was made. That was the ship didn't have an odd looking opening running through the saucer.
It wasn't a decision to make it a carrier, it was only the designer's intent.
Many of the large space fights featured in DS9 had large numbers of attack shuttles, they had to come from
somewhere.
Only DS9:"Sacrifice of Angels" used fighters and in large numbers, except for the Maquis wh's largist ship was only slightly larger than the Federation attack fighter. Meaning, the fighters had to move themselves interstellar distances.
As far as I know, there is no mention of ground asssults. Everything I see says it's and "attack" craft.

[QUOTE]As for the Akira, I have seen the actual CGI of the Akira on Doug Drexler's Blog and that definitely isn't a window. :p
I have those pictures too, they go in, but in the forward shot from First Contact, you can see light inside and we never see hatches as with every single other shuttle bay on all other ships. If they're windows that only makes them deeply inset.
[EDIT] Reading the Drex Files blog, the guy who designed the Akira says in one of the posts that he doesn't really mean fighter carrier, but shuttle carrier for humanitarian type work, which definitely does fit Trek.
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/alex-jaeger-week-the-akira-class/#comment-13396
Well they do have their own Warp Drives, so yes they could've flown in on their own. But due to their size, they could easily fit in the Shuttle Bays of even the smallest starship (except the Defiant-class). It depends on the size of the fighters from DS9, they're anywhere from 18 to 30 meters long and wide. The small end can fit but if it's toward the big end it would have trouble fitting anything but the Galaxy and Sovereign classes.

[MajorD]

Guess I made it all up then. Follow the links yourself the info is there.
I did follow the links, all I saw were a guy saying the ship was a through deck carrier, twice, without any evidence. Then I saw a list of through deck carriers, none of which were canon except for the Shelley, and even the two drawings of that class had shuttle bay doors added to where the deflector goes. So, where's the evidence? The only actual picture I can find of the ship is here (http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/pagimage.php?shipimages&fedshelley&1).

How does something show itself to be antything, by maybe launching fighters.
Yes, or by launching a few shuttles out either end of the bow structure and shows it has an afte door on the bow structure, and that the shuttle bays are actually a single one with doors at both ends. Or, it could fight using carrier standoff tactics where the fighters to the fighting and the carrier stays as far from the action as it can the entire time.

If you want to say it does not exist fine, others that can take the time to read and watch a vid and have some degree of ship recoginization will see that it does.
The ship exists, I contend that it doesn't have the properties you attribute. I also don't have the episode and didn't see a video link. I haven't seen any evidence out of an episode to show the Shelley functions like or is a carrier.

[renderpix]

The ship exists, I contend that it doesn't have the properties you attribute. I also don't have the episode and didn't see a video link. I haven't seen any evidence out of an episode to show the Shelley functions like or is a carrier.

The OP asked if there was an episode that showed or refrenced a Thru-Deck carrier. Done

The page that it seems you got the image from refers to it as a Carrier The description fits the troop (http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/misc.html)transport/carrier

The Shelley class (same as the Curry class) or USS Shelley is a Thru-Deck carrier sited by others in Star Trek fan fiction and also made as addon to Star Trek games that reference the Shelley. Properties attributed to a Thru Deck carrier is not saying much, a thur deck carrier is not really a carrier more a make shift one that is mainly a cruiser as in the case of the Curry and Shelley.

But if you need links and reference

DS9 episodes online Season 6 Episode 1 (http://tv.blinkx.com/show/star-trek-deep-space-nine-dsn/yV2fDoLkeSnib9fvIq_ERuL-vuU#s6e1)

Online Ship Recognition Manual, Volume 1: The Ships of Starfleet
Curry-Class (http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Curry_class) as the image you gave. Both the USS Curry and USS Shelley are basic the same ship design.
Carrier (http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Carrier) which includes the Akira class
Canon conflicts with itself but all reference on this class refers to it as a troop transport or carrier Good Nuff for me. So don't agree with me I could really care less, I can read and follow what is popular in canon. But If you choose to disagree go do it with them.

But if anyone is following this they probably are wondering the samething I am. Do you haft to see it in actual on the screen for it to be true. it's a freaking SCI-FI TV show.

And if you really haft to have it in visuals to show proof what a ships or vessels class is most canon descriptions just went out the window.
Worker Bee, Ever seen it do anything but zip or float around, it's a small one-man maintance vessel ever seen it working? Your standards seems to make it just a thing with out purpose until it is revealed on the big sreen because we are not bright enough to figure it out be doing alittle research and reading from canon soruces.
StarFleet Tug - I never saw one in use until DS9 but I know what they were and did not need to see on in action to have an idea what it's purpose was.
So if something is referred to as a thru deck carrier, the class design is shown one the screen it really is not hard to figure out, or really isn't for most of us.

edit - most ships in the series only show for a few seconds they cannot showcase everyship. Using canon reference it is not hard to figure out what a ship is and identlfy it. And the USS Shelley was identified long before I done so, and it is accurate when there was no need for troop action in the DS9 battle it was in, it was there as a carrier.

[radman]

The bottom line there will be fighters in this game and carriers. I hope the Federation has there equivalent. I cant wait!

[PaperBackHero]

A well designed carrier is definitely one bad ass piece of fighting machine.

[Captain_Intrepid]

That doesn't strike me as a viable option. I can't see them ever being able to redeploy an entire army to avoid air fire like that. For one, we've seen how long it takes them to transport just a couple hundred people. Transporter pads come with six spots, and they only have so many transporter rooms. An army of tens of thousands would be impossible to move quickly, even with transporters. Secondly, it'd require that their shields be down. So if they're engaged in battle in orbit, then they can't drop their shields in order to reposition their troops. In which case, their ground troops are vulnerable to aircraft in the atmosphere strafing them.

Troop transporters are designed to beam larger numbers of personnel than standard six pad transporters.

With troop deployment in mind, both in boarding parties (where the Carrier and the fighters had worn down the shields of the ship to be boarded) and for planetside deployment, they have protected the Carrier with good armour and probably is capable of quickly raising it's shields after beamouts of the troops. And who's to say they didn't work their way around this by lowering shielding at the transporter arrays while keeping up shielding around the rest of the ship, let alone being able to beam troops with the shields up or at least with reduced power?

Watching Star Wars, you can see how handy it is to have fighters to help capital ships against other capital ships, let alone battle spacestations.

Anyways, Klingons are natural warriors who have been trained from a young age to fight in a variety of conditions. They have enough of a tactical sense not to run willy-nilly in the open to get shot by atmospheric fighters.

[KlinZha]

Fighters in Star Wars or Battlestar Galactica are really effective in those universes, because Captital Ships there are alot like Battleships in WW 2 and todays world since they "are" very volnerable to concetrated airstrikes. However, from what I've seen of the Star Trek Universe, warships have much greater speed, maneuverability, and agility than in the other Universes, and the tech in Star Trek is alot different, so fighters would become in Star trek would become either a novelty or a limited use weapon. Furhter, this is Star Trek.... this is "not" Star Wars nor Battlestar Galactica. Each Universe has it's own flavor and feel which defines it as unique. In my humble opinion carriers do not, for my part, give me a sence or feeling of being in Star Trek. I would hate to see this game become a clone of another Universe. I hope the Devs are careful with maintaining the qualties which make Star Trek the wonderfully unique Universe it is.

[MajorD]

The OP asked if there was an episode that showed or refrenced a Thru-Deck carrier. Done

The page that it seems you got the image from refers to it as a Carrier The description fits the troop (http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/misc.html)transport/carrier
In the site I linked to and the one you linked, the ship is called a carrier only in speculation, not as fact. DITL doesn't even call it a fighter carrier but a cargo and troop carrier, still only as part of his speculation. He goes so far as to say, "Many fans consider that the Shelley must be a fighter carrier, but personally I think this is wishful thinking." (http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/pagship.php?fedshelley) Note, everything written in white in DITL is speculation, only the stuff writen in yellow is canon.

In the site you link, the person being quoted says, "I suspect," in reference to his description of what the ship may be. He does not describe what the ship is, because he does not know.

The Shelley class (same as the Curry class) or USS Shelley is a Thru-Deck carrier sited by others in Star Trek fan fiction and also made as addon to Star Trek games that reference the Shelley.
Games and fanfiction aren't canon.

DS9 episodes online Season 6 Episode 1 (http://tv.blinkx.com/show/star-trek-deep-space-nine-dsn/yV2fDoLkeSnib9fvIq_ERuL-vuU#s6e1)
Great link. Fighters being in the fleet doesn't mean the Curry is a carrier, if anything if it were a carrier then we wouldn't see those damaged fighters because the damaged fighters would be docked and under repair on the ship or the other ships. That they're flying, especially damaged, is telling.

Do you haft to see it in actual on the screen for it to be true.
Yes, that's how canon works. If I were making my own project then I would use my speculation, but I wouldn't take other people's speculation as facts of the show. It would come to my own determination.

Worker Bee, Ever seen it do anything but zip or float around, it's a small one-man maintance vessel ever seen it working?
Yes, I've seen it pushing stuff, pulling containers, and I think one iteration has arms with graspers. The newer version from Nemesis does have arms.

Your standards seems to make it just a thing with out purpose until it is revealed on the big sreen because we are not bright enough to figure it out be doing alittle research and reading from canon soruces.
My standard is that something can't do something until it does it, unless it bears sufficient resemblance to something else that it might also have the characteristics of the similar object. If a ship never fires phasers but has the phaser strip detail I will feel safe in assuming that it can fire phasers because of the detail's similarity to the detail that fired a phaser. If a ship has no phaser arrays and never fires a phaser, I will feel far less secure in making an assumption that it is armed, yet at the same time even ships with no visible weapon detail frequently fire phasers, so it wouldn't be a bad assumption to claim the universal armament of all Star Trek vessels. However, if Voyager were sitting next to a solid gold asteroid it would be wrong of me to assume Voyager is full of gold based only on proximity.

The sources you cite aren't canon, they are speculative quotes, not even quotes from the designers of the vessels which would at least hold a shred more weight. I don't even take the word of the designers of the ship, because the production of process of a show and the dozens of people everything passes through has such a tremendous effect on every aspect. The artist of a ship may intend one thing, the producer will order something else, the director will decide for themself what is done, the effects people will get the product in one state, and then will orchestrate events the way they think is correct. You may start with a big white medical ship with a big cross on the side and end up with a battle capable circus ship.

StarFleet Tug - I never saw one in use until DS9 but I know what they were and did not need to see on in action to have an idea what it's purpose was.
I can't imagine how you could determine the tug was a tug without it pulling something, it could just have easily and been more likely to be a cargo ship.

So if something is referred to as a thru deck carrier, the class design is shown one the screen it really is not hard to figure out, or really isn't for most of us. No one in the show or movies call it a carrier of any sort. If enough people said the Enterprise-D is a Salamander, and referenced it on their sites and quoted other fans calling it a Salamander, would you consider it canon?
edit - most ships in the series only show for a few seconds they cannot showcase everyship. Using canon reference it is not hard to figure out what a ship is and identlfy it. And the USS Shelley was identified long before I done so, and it is accurate when there was no need for troop action in the DS9 battle it was in, it was there as a carrier.
It's been identified as a new class and not a bad shot of a previously known class, but yes we know nothing concerning most ships and I'm fine with that. Even so, there are some things that can be said about them without having to assume wild variation based on the slightest differences in detail. Recurring details and recurring abilities can be safely applied when carefully considered.

Any decent site will tell you when it is citing canon or speculating or will otherwise write in a way that makes the distinction clear. For example, the site linked below says as much in its Footnotes.
http://www.trekmania.net/the_fleet/utopia/others/curry.htm

[renderpix]

Any decent site will tell you when it is citing canon or speculating or will otherwise write in a way that makes the distinction clear. For example, the site linked below says as much in its Footnotes.
http://www.trekmania.net/the_fleet/utopia/others/curry.htm

Thanks for the link, it classes the Curry as a Carrier. Your first link referenced someone that in fact did not know what it was, he just assumed it was a troop carrier. But did give speculation to it either being troops shuttle or fighter craft. Again something in favor of what you are against but you can't meet half way.

The link you give above classifys it as a Carrier, what it carriers it does not say to be specific but that class has also been classified a Thru-Deck Carrier.

I saw only two damage fighters, the Shelley was damaged herself so is your speculation better than anyone elses, you seem to think so

Great job at twisting words, If it is identified as a Tug and I have reference to that I'm not the type of person that would say I'd need to see it tractoring something to believe it is a Tug.

Go ahead an paraquote me I'm tired of spending time with someone that can't see common sense. And then post a link that disproves their argument, and still can't see it.

So if you like be the king of canon, I can live with that with the provided links, they prove that Carriers do exist. When CBS allows the showing of the bay doors opening with fighter flying out maybe then you can be too.

edit - by the way the designer was Dan Curry himself hince the Curry class

"There was a starship named after you on Star Trek, the U.S.S. Curry, did you choose this ship to be named after yourself and or have a hand in designing it?"

"We had to do a fleet of damaged ships. We got together (Gary Hutzel, and other people from Image G) and we kitbashed* Star Trek models in ways that they were never meant to be put together. Just for fun each person who built a ship named it after him or her self.

The USS Curry is not supposed to be a specific class, just a model I threw together. "

Then dubbed the USS Shelley in honor of the author of Frankenstein. There has been alot of reference to Thru Deck carriers, this one has fits the bill over and over. I'm happy with that maybe you can't and that's ok too :p

[MajorD]

Thanks for the link, it classes the Curry as a Carrier. Your first link referenced someone that in fact did not know what it was, he just assumed it was a troop carrier. But did give speculation to it either being troops shuttle or fighter craft. Again something in favor of what you are against but you can't meet half way.

The link you give above classifys it as a Carrier, what it carriers it does not say to be specific but that class has also been classified a Thru-Deck Carrier.

I saw only two damage fighters, the Shelley was damaged herself so is your speculation better than anyone elses, you seem to think so
They both say it's a carrier as part of their speculation, both say it's only speculation at the bottom of each page. One of your own links says the through deck carrier idea is speculation on the part of the person who was quoted. Saying the Curry is a troop transport is equally valid as calling it a fighter carrier because it is all speculation.

Great job at twisting words, If it is identified as a Tug and I have reference to that I'm not the type of person that would say I'd need to see it tractoring something to believe it is a Tug.
I didn't realize you meant you had seen the vessel on a site described somewhere first. I thought you said you knew what the vessel as just by looking at it out of context.

So if you like be the king of canon, I can live with that with the provided links, they prove that Carriers do exist. All you have proven is that people think the Curry is a carrier and that if something is repeated enough you will accept is as canon, nothing else.

[selrik]

Oh for pete's sake!

Dude, you are THAT guy.

The guy no one likes to hang around at conventions, parties or the occasional Bar Mitzvah, you know, THAT one.

Give it a rest.

[renderpix]

Oh for pete's sake!

Dude, you are THAT guy.

The guy no one likes to hang around at conventions, parties or the occasional Bar Mitzvah, you know, THAT one.

Give it a rest.

lol, I'm really no better am I? :o but I do try to shower often...... :eek:
But if that statement was meant for me, sorry for the intrusion, I felt my opnion and others had some merit.

They both say it's a carrier as part of their speculation, both say it's only speculation at the bottom of each page. One of your own links says the through deck carrier idea is speculation on the part of the person who was quoted. Saying the Curry is a troop transport is equally valid as calling it a fighter carrier because it is all speculation.

I didn't realize you meant you had seen the vessel on a site described somewhere first. I thought you said you knew what the vessel as just by looking at it out of context.

All you have proven is that people think the Curry is a carrier and that if something is repeated enough you will accept is as canon, nothing else.

Sincerely MajorD I can accept your point as I have already done. But I will not accept you speculation over everyone elses. Because that's all it is..... speculation on your part and it does not matter how many times you repeat it. The subject of this debate has two sides and I never said that it could not be a troop transport. So face it the only one calling anyone wrong here was not me.

There are no such thing as Thru-Deck Carriers, no way a troop transport could ever be taken for one a carrier that is where the aftermath of battle that did not need ground troops. Oh well I guess that it couldn't possibly be either because someone speculating that it could not be because we did not see any fighter being launched or troops being deployed. So foolish of us to think something like that could exist, thinking outside the box putting together a few facts, those heritics they should be flogged for even thinking something could be a possibility.

Why on earth would so many people even speculate that one could exist, their so foolish using their deductive reasoning like that. What's the world coming to?

Now get in the last word because it just speculation on my part that I won't respond to anymore speculation on speculation about speculation that was nothing but speculation on the part of some pretty bright people. You know the kind that when they see only one red rock in a pile of white one they wonder why and generally find out by speculating. :rolleyes:

So if it helps I will say that I am completely wrong and your all right MajorD, well right anyways. ;)

[Pest]

Although I know there were figher type ships in a couple episodes of the different series they were pretty much marginalized, at least thats how it seemed to me.

Combat in all Star Trek series is very shield dependant and a small fighter type craft most likely would not be able to sustain a shield that could take even a single hit from even a medium sized vessel. that coupled with the fact that phaser accuracy is pinpoint at the time this game will be set in makes any large investment in fighters or transports for them to be a waste of resources.

Now ofcourse this is just my opinion, its just this is how I have always thought of carriers/fighters in regards to the Star Trek universe.

Now if we are talking Battlestars and such, well, different mythos.:D

[Father_Origin]

the Breakdown:

Why Klingons would want a carrier :

Fighters provide excellent close ground support to troops
Fighters are the best way to deal with your enemies fighters
Fighters can go places a star ship might have problems going, like asteriod fields
Fighters can deliver a lot of damage on target
Fighters allow for "mono vs mono" 'honorable combat in space "Klingons would LOVE dogfights"

Why Federation MIGHT also have a carrier

The Klingons have them
In a pinch, they would make a very high capacity rescue ship


carriers in a nutshell

[Teleon]

Umm… I just had an awful idea!!! Please do not let the fighter craft cloak!!! It is bad enough that Star Ships will have to waste some energy to shot down fighters, in order to avoid taking a torpedo hits. But to have to divert power to sensor scans and the like also; seems a bit too much.

Just a thought!

[Father_Origin]

fighters don't need to cloak, they are hard to see and detect in the big picture..so they can slip in and attack
undetected..well at least til they attack (the attacked ship would be able to detect them at a certain range)

and

after the attack they could slip away outside detection range...detecting fighters should be
impossible at long range...they are tiny.