Kobayashi Maru Vol. 22 [Archive] - Star Trek Online Forums

ByYourCommand

07-24-2009, 02:43 PM

Stay with the convoy.

Why? You have your orders; furthermore, the captain knew the risks, and he disobeyed you anyways. If you go off from the convoy, there's nothing stopping the Klingons from taking the "route of least resistance" and sidestepping you to massacre the group of ships you left behind to save one. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

However, what I would do is immediately hail the vessel to get back to the convoy right the F away if they want your help. Broadcast it wide-band and in the clear so that the Klingons know you and your ship are in the area -- it should make them think twice, and help them realize you are respecting their territory (even if the mining vessel is not).

If the mining captain decides to be foolish and stick around, and if his crew lets him, they deserve to die. Alternatively, if they flee closer to the convoy and the Klingons pursue, then turn and attack the Klingons for violating Federation territory and tell the rest of the convoy to flee back into friendly space at high warp.

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However, I don't know why the Klingons would attack a defenseless mining vessel in the first place. Aren't they more honourable than that? (Maybe I should emphasize that point in the hail ...)

CaptainKonnerRiley

07-24-2009, 02:43 PM

Problems
1. Why would money matter money has been abolished.
2. Why didn't the First Officer step in and stop the captain.

What I Would do
1. Hail Klingon ships.
2. Negotiate with Klingons.
3. I would let them destroy the ship with only the captain on it, and continue the mission.

hurzysn

07-24-2009, 02:56 PM

1. i would go to the ship and hail the Klingon ships that if they fire i would destroy them all for firing on a federation ship and that this would mean war if they did.
2. tell that mining ship capt. if doesn't move his a** i would kill him personaly for disobeying orders

after that it would be a gamble to see what the Klingons do

Teufelpanzer

07-24-2009, 03:13 PM

Warn the Klingons that you will destroy them if they approach the ships you're escorting, then fire a full spread of torpedoes at the mining vessel, just to show them you're serious.

Wait...which side am I on, again?

BalzOnYer4Head

07-24-2009, 03:22 PM

After broadcasting on all subspace and wide band channels a loud and clear message that the rogue capt is in Klingon Space, and that he has not been authorized to leave the convoy. I would go on to mention that the rogue capt is not acting in accordance to Federation guidelines and that his lack of return renounces any assistance that could be given by the UFoP and its wessels.

For all we know (and like another poster mentioned) an entire armada of Klingon birds could be out there trailing the convoy and just looking for an excuse to go to war.

I would then ensure that all the Capt's in the convoy understood that they were not to break rank under any circumstance. After that was all squared away I'd have the replicator in my ready room dish up some lightly salted butter popcorn, and watch what happens on the view screen.

Then I would report it all to Starfleet. (Sans the popcorn)
:p

krnr

07-24-2009, 03:29 PM

Beam the Crew over to my ship while using the tractor beam to pull the mining ship into one of the enemy ships destroying it creating confusion while i make my escape. if i somehow is to be forced to fight having dealt with 1 ship i focus fire on one until its down and then i do the same to the other ship. lets just face its those ships im facing are to old to be a match for me.

Trekkie

07-24-2009, 04:00 PM

I think that one of my major goals would be to distance myself from being associated with the rogue ship, but at the same time I think that it is rather important to protect nonetheless. I would try diplomacy first and foremost and explain the situation (that the ship's captain was not following orders), but if that was not successful I would take a defensive stance until I can at least beam the crew of the rogue ship onto my own in order to get them to safety -- even if it meant leaving without the resources.

Rakkis

07-24-2009, 04:16 PM

I would hail he captain of the mining vessel and tell to head back for fed space... If he disobeys i would fire my phasers at the mining vessel to disable their shields. I would the hail he klingon captain and explain the situation, and tell the captain to do what he wishes to the mining ship and it's crew and Head back to the convoy

Drexxus3d

07-24-2009, 04:19 PM

You may have been ordered to stay with the convoy, but you have a sworn duty to protect the lives of federation citizens and help those in need. The convoy is in no immediate danger, you should intercept the rogue mining vessel and protect it by trying to explain the situation to the klingons or if required to disable or destroy their ships.

Afterwards, the rogue captain might be more willing to stick with the convoy, if not that crew should be beamed aboard and the captain thrown in the brig for a formal hearing after the mission is over.

Veglargh

07-24-2009, 04:19 PM

Yes, come a save him..... *abush*

Enlaw

07-24-2009, 04:20 PM

I'd hail the lead Klingon ship after alerting Federation officials of the mining ship's plight (and the captain's disobedience), then negotiate with the Klingons for the release of the ship's crew, while Federation diplomats attempt a solution via diplomatic channels. I'd allow for the seizure of the mining vessel, and, if absolutely necessary, the captain, if it helped convince the Klingons to release the crew. They shouldn't all be punished for their captain's ignorance. I'd negotiate firmly, though, making sure they knew that there would be consequences if the ship, and all aboard were destroyed.

Bern

07-24-2009, 04:22 PM

-
-
-
- Hey it is called a 'kobayashi maru', so I would just put my feet up and tell the helm to get us out of harms way in the middle so we can see what happens( They are both lost anyway, no need to loose our ship on the process :-P
-

catacon15

07-24-2009, 04:25 PM

My main goal as a starfleet captain would be to try and prevent as many casualties as possible. Since I would be going against the Klingons whose goal would be to create as many casualties, I would deploy what fighters and runabout like ships I had in my cargo bay to protect the convoy while I went to rescue the other mining ship. In my talks with the Klingons my first course of action would be to emphasize the nature of the mining ship disobeying orders and how it will be severely punished. Along with this I would throw in veiled threats to destroy their ships weakening the already stretched Empire. Should this not work, and it probably wouldn't I would remind the Klingons that though I have no problem destroying their ships, I would have an issue with the crews loss of lives since I am starfleet, and thus would feel the need to incorporate humanitarian aid by beaming aboard the klingon crew straight to the brig after their shields would be disabled. And then go on to talk about how much honor would the klingons have to take back home.

mwood1387

07-24-2009, 04:30 PM

nathan900

07-24-2009, 04:31 PM

I would tell the convoy iam protecting to hide in a near by nerbula to stay off any other ships senors. i would warp to the mining ship and while warping to it i would hail the lead klingon ship and ask them to leave the mining ship alone, and promise them the mining ship will never enter klingon space again and give them my word to insure the mining ship will stay out of klingon space and tell them there is no honour in destroying and defenceless mining ship. when i arrive at the klingons ships and the mining ship i would but my ship inbetween them and hail the klingons and tell them they will have to get through me before they attack the mining ship and tell them would the risk starting an all out war with federation over a worthless mining ship. if the klingons tryed to kill the mining ship i would give the order to open fire on the klingon ships and meanwhile order the mining ship to warp back to federation space or they will get destroyed i would kill the klingons easily as my ship is no match for the klingons after i killed them i would warp back to the convoy and lead them onto the rest of there mission and hail starfleet and inform them what had happened and order the mining ship to stay out of klingon space i would also say it was logical to safe the mining ship and leave the convoy as starfleet needs all the resources it can get. After that i would also so hail the mining ship and warn them to stay away from klingon space as there mightned be any help nearby the next time.

funky_jesus

07-24-2009, 04:39 PM

i would go into the to help out the mining ship whilst keeping my sensors on the convoy as soon as there was trouble with them i would go straight for them and leave the mining ship to its own devices, as it was their own fault anyway.

Breljockey

07-24-2009, 04:45 PM

If the captain of the cargo ship blatantly disobeyed my orders and started to head to Klingon space, he would not have even made it there. I would have targeted his engines and disabled his ship. Then use my tractor beam to tow the ship with the convoy and put the captain on report.

Angelwithsoul

07-24-2009, 04:45 PM

This sounds like a standard Klingon offensive tactic, Try to make me save that idiot captain while they have some additional cloaked ships destroy the mining ships.

I'm going to have to say I stick with the mining ships on this one, Follow my orders. I can't help it if some guy decides to "follow the rainbow to the mythical pot of gold" so to speak.

What I can do is wish him luck trying to fend of several Klingon ships with his severely underpowered ship and tell him Starfleet will look forward to court-martialing him IF he gets out alive. :D

Kheren

07-24-2009, 05:08 PM

Problems
1. Why would money matter money has been abolished.
2. Why didn't the First Officer step in and stop the captain.

[.

Because this has nothing to do with a Star Trek universe scenario; it is obviously an EVE Online scenario.

That being said:

I= PROPER OUTCOME:

1- Starfleet mission is to ensure peace and Security for all citizens of the Federation.
2- No mere civilian ship can hope to match a Starfleet vessel and it's crew or can disobey a Starfleet Captain without dire consequences.

Therefore:
- as soon as the mining ship Captain utters his criminal plan, there is no discussion:he is put on report and under close watch.
- as soon as he tries to break formation (sensors can easily detect an engine power build up even before he moves), he is ordered to stand down; if not, his engines are disabled with the proper transponder code well before he crosses the Neutral zone, or by phaser fire if we have to, then his ship is tractored and the Captain is relieved of command... while his mining and flying rights are immediately revoked as he's placed under arrest, under criminal charges of mutiny with the intent of starting a war.

II- DUBIOUS OUTCOME:

Now if we accept the unlikely event of this scenario: that the Starfleet Captain sits by and let a civilian ship cross the Neutral zone (and flying civilians so near a zone patrolled by cloaked ships is a dumb idea in the first place) up to the point of being legally arrested by the Klingons:

1- Hail the Klingons and explain the situation
2- Reminds them that we are bound to protect all Federation citizens... even those criminals.
3- Assure them that we do not want to cross the neutral zone or violate the treaty
4- Propose this to them: let us beam back the Captain and his crew for prosecution, in exchange for the ship and all of it's cargo... and our sincere apologies about this incident. The Klingon Empire will be authorized to send their own prosecutor to the courts to ensure proper justice is served under Interstellar law.

5- If all else fail, demand through The Federation Council orders of extradition from the Empire.

6- If they open fire (now it would be the Klingons' turn to act dumb as they could capture it easily) they will destroy it well before any rescue attempt or return fire could be done (remember ST III?). Crossing the zone to help them would be as foolish as it would be futile... and in their own territory, Klingon law IS the law.

In the end, whatever the outcome, the Starfleet Captain will face a board of inquiry and certainly loose his command for being so dangerously negligent and incompetent.

All in all, when a ship's complement is in the balance with the entire population of the Federation in the advent of a war, a Captain's duty is crystal clear.

fufuy

07-24-2009, 05:12 PM

I would order my helmsman to fly by the minning ship, then have my transporter guy/girl beam the crew and equipment aboard, while simultaneously having my tactical officer blast the crap out of the Klingon ships (even though that might not go over well woth Starfleet Command) with phasers and torpedos. All the while i'll be sitting calmly in my capn's chair calmly sipping an ice cold pink lemonade. :p

spacecarver

07-24-2009, 05:26 PM

Klingons rarely negotiate, and never in the middle of a fight. Besides, there's no more peace treaty. Shields are up, therefore beaming is not possible. I take my entire convoy of ships into Klingon territory, surround the birds of prey with the caravan, and begin a full scale assault on one of the ships while the caravan ships manipulate the other birds of prey with tractor beams and use whatever other weapons they may have. Once I've mopped up the Klingons, we head back to Federation space at highest possible warp. If the freighter has engine damage, I beam survivors aboard along with as much precious cargo I can carry, then destroy the freighter so that the Klingons won't get the supplies. Since the freighters are likely to be slower than my vessel, and since there is a very good chance the Klingons will follow me into Fed space, and since they can fire while cloaked, I position my ship in the center of the convoy with power diverted to shields and everybody at battlestations until we reach the destination or any available escorts I had requested to join us.

Mailman653

07-24-2009, 05:30 PM

Let the Klingons have at em. I'm not going to abandon a convoy of X many ships and X many "innocent miners" due to the foolishness of a hard headed captain who was motivated by profit.

Vlherg

07-24-2009, 06:00 PM

Offer the cargo ship captain to the Klingons as a sacrificial lamb if they will allow the crew and ship to leave unharmed.
If they don't go for it, leave the cargo ship to its fate. If you want to go disobeying orders and entering Klingon space without permission, be prepared to pay the price for it.

laladiel

07-24-2009, 06:17 PM

leave a few shuttles behind to keep an eye on the convoy and signal if theres an attack, and head to the klingon border, contact the lead klingon ship and try to broker a resalution offering the captain to stand trial but request the safe return of the ship and crew.then return to the convoy making a note to starfleet.

Tylor_Liles

07-24-2009, 06:40 PM

tell the klingons that there is no honor in destroying a defenseless enemy.and that the capt of the mining vessel is relived and tell them this ship comes with me or you die......target klingon ships with full phasers an torpedos and tell them youhave 10 seconds. start counting down....see if they call what they think is a bluff....

Capt on the bridge...-Riker to Picard in 2364 upon his arrival aboard the ENTERPRISE

JamisVargas

07-24-2009, 06:48 PM

This scenario is a bit vague... how far away is the lone mining vessel from the convoy?

Actually, I got it. Assuming my vessel is capable of taking out all 3 enemy craft, it's a cinch. Have the rest of the convoy FOLLOW me at a safe distance, so that they don't get too far away from me while I go rescue the idiotic captain. Depending on how far into Klingon space he was, I may have the others stop right at the border.
After that, i would tell the Klingons to come after me in honorable combat. Knowing them, they'd rather have a good fight than pick on a defenseless enemy.
After that, it's just a matter of making sure my ship is the only warship left standing when it's all over.

joshua_ezell

07-24-2009, 06:49 PM

Nothing you can do on this one, the Klingons are peeved at the Federation at this point in history. As Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." My shiny new ship might save that ship, but there may be any number of other cloaked ships nearby that we can't detect. I would likewise send a signal to the Klingons to try and persuade them that the ship had a navigational error in their systems. Failing that, there is nothing I can do that won't leave my convoy open to enemy attack. I keep shields up and scan for any other cloaked vessels. When I reached Starbase, I would request that two vessels accompany any future convoys near the neutral zone. :cool:

mbrwn2003

07-24-2009, 07:25 PM

i would just start shooting everything i have at the attackers shoot first ask qurestons latter

Shaving_ryans_privates

07-24-2009, 07:25 PM

Problems
1. Why would money matter money has been abolished.

There not getting money there getting materials to build new ships.

Raibart

07-24-2009, 07:39 PM

Hmm,intresting....well my duty is to protect the other convoy ships and the Klingons are clearly in the right to seize the ship.I think in this case even though most of the time I agree with Mr Scott,"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank". ......I would leave the Klingons to their prey but advise them of the importance of releasing the crew to future relations to our governments. Then I'd inform StarFleet Command
of the Incident .

drays917

07-24-2009, 07:58 PM

Haha, I like this one...probably the most Kobayashi Maru-like yet. I think I would go after the ship, telling the rest of the convoy to stay put - if they're attacked, I'll be able to go back and save them immediately. I'd tell the Klingons it was a misunderstanding, and they can have the ship as long as I can take the crew back. If/when they refuse or ignore me, then I'd extend my shields around the mining ship and fight off the Klingons, then escort the ship back to the rest of the convoy. If the captain tries a stunt like that again, though, I'm shooting out his engines and towing him back to starbase myself.

Halciet

07-24-2009, 08:04 PM

I'd shoot the mining ship myself and save the Klingons the hassle.

ZT_Strike

07-24-2009, 08:05 PM

wow, this is a thought one. When you are captain you must anilize the facts of the situation, but quickily, and then act upon them. I look and most people haven't considered all he facts. This is what I would do. I would first contact the safe mining vessels and tell them to pull away at max impulse, reason for doing so is that the majority of Federation mining vessels don't have warp drive and on impulse are quite slow, so they could run away from the attention of the Klingons but not to far away that I couldn't support them. Also I know that 3 Klingon ships have decloaked in front, usually klingons do not travel or hunt in big numbers. Following the first action I will then contact the stray ship and tell them to make their way back to the rest of the convoy while I cover there retreat. Following which I would order full impulse and attack at full speed to cover the mining ship. Reason for doing so is that the Klingon ships are 2 destroyers and a light cruiser, and also at this time period the federation and the klingons are at the brink of war (if they arn't already). The Ex is a cruiser and can dish them a great fight, but not one to stay for. So as I roll in I will attack trying to disrupt as many systems as I can while trying to confuse them also. Hopefully I distract them or take their focus off the mining ships and on to me. So I would stick in and fight till I figured that the mining vessels were clear then bail out at high speed. Usually federation ships are faster than their klingon counter-parts. So I would out run them and rejoin the mining vessels. If I saw that they were continuing to press the attack, I would call for reinforcements. Figuring that since we are on the border of an adversary, there would likely be allied ships within a few moments range. And when the klingons detect that reinforcements are coming, they would pull back or die an un-honorable death (for attacking weak targets).

wingnutf22

07-24-2009, 08:15 PM

I hail any federation ships in the sector as to the status, tell them to move in and escort my convoy as I go off to deal with the klingons, I enter the sector hail the lead ship and request they stand down. If they do not, I ask if they would accept the ship and I can take the captain and crew. ( how much top secret tech is on a mining vessel anyway? Also at the hearing the captain would probably lose the ship.) If that doesn't work I disable the three ships as quickly as possible while extending my shields around the mining ship and then escort it from the nuetral zone.

joshua060995

07-24-2009, 08:23 PM

oh hell ya i would go after the enemy ships cause if you read it carefully there doesn't seem to be any other threats that are around the convoy. no other ships are around the convoy that are stated in the scenario so i would go in there guns blazes or in this case phazer at max. launch all torpedos MUHAHAHAHA :D:D:D

Jeremy5003

07-24-2009, 08:27 PM

I would go to red alert then have the convoy follow me closely.I would then go to the mining vessel,and hail the klingons to retreat or i would attack,if they didnt retreat then i would destroy them.So i save the convoy and the mining vessel.....

but to answer the initial question,i would stay with convoy if i couldnt do both

dahakahacker2000

07-24-2009, 08:51 PM

Well sorry to say, I wouldn't leave the convoy alone for a second. The most I would do is tell the mining vessel to try and get back to the convoy so I could engage the Klingons.

aricthered21

07-24-2009, 09:02 PM

I would just leave the miners there due to that they took the risk of not followinf orders and it's their fault that they entered the kligon territory

Trekkie626

07-24-2009, 09:05 PM

I'd open fire on the mining vessel's engines tractor him into the shuttlebay. Hail the Klingons informing them that you are arresting to crew of the mining vessel and withdraw back to the convoy. Imprison the crew in the brig until I reach a starbase where a full trial may be had.

Tetracobalt

07-24-2009, 09:06 PM

When the Klingons show up I would drop the convoy somewhere safe where they can power down the ships to hide them. Perhaps set the auto destruct on the convoy ships for some appropriate amount of time. Nobody likes to board ships that have an autodestruct counting down. Then I would beam over the crew from the convoy to my ship while I deal with the Klingons. Starship construction supplies can be replaced easily but the crew that get those supplies are harder to replace. Depending on the situation I may even offer up the Captain of the mining ship to the Klingons so they don't have to go home empty handed and they don't feel cheated. The miner captain was after all directly going against every rule in the book and he knew the risk and must be responsible for his actions and the lives of the crew. Then I get back to the supply convoy and disable the auto destruct before it goes off.

DarkCel

07-24-2009, 10:00 PM

I would send 2 runabouts (or shuttles) after the cargo with the chief security officer and his/her men and the ship's counselor (who can act as diplomat in captain's replacement). Their orders would be to get the crew of the cargo a minima without putting their lifes at risk (not crossing the zone without a good reason), if possible to get the ship and the captain of the cargo as well.

I would inform the Klingons the captain of the cargo ship went rogue, I am sending 2 runabouts (or shuttles) with a task force to take back the cargo ship and would add any help is welcome. Then I would let the counselor handle the situation while I continue my mission.

I would also contact any Federation ship in the area asking for assistance. If one or more ships are avaliable I would then warp to protect the runabouts if necessary.

deeboboy

07-24-2009, 10:56 PM

leave the ship and let slip the dogs of war no point stealing of the klingons

louthan1

07-24-2009, 11:32 PM

in this senerio there are a few steps i would take. Before that i have a few questions. First, why is the federation low on income? They don't have currency they abolished it a long time ago during the time of cockrin (sorry I am bad at spelling). Second question where is the nearest starbase? Any way to the question posted.

step 1. hail both minning and klingon ships. enphasie the dishonable conduct of attacking a defensless vessal while reprimanding the other captian for disobeying orders and commanding him to return to the convoy.

Step 2. order science to look for low band tacyon emmisions in the sector (normally this will indicate if there are any more cloaked enemey vessels to worry about.) at the same Time Alert nearest Federation starbase or ships of the situation as thats an ace you can play later if you need it. Klingons arn't stupid they aren't about to go into a battle that will not benifit the empire and small misuderstanding is not large enough especially if outnumbed.

Step 3. Now this isn't an either or as it depends on the actions of the klingons, the mining captian and the scans you just took along with the outcome of the information you recieved earlier. (even if there is a starbase around It wont be helpful except in setting an exit course for your convoy and you self while if there are other ships with in proximity you can use that as tool to avoid a battle altogeather or use it to turn the tide)

First If there are no other ships in the sector and you mining captian regained his senses and is returning to the convoy then I would take it from there with picards favorite tactic diplomacy. assuming they havent opend fire on either you the minning vessel or the convoy.

Second if you have determined that there are other enemy ships in the area and diplomacy is failing get the convoy out of there and worry about the minnors when the convoy is gone. the captian of the minning vessel knew the risk as did the crew i would attempt to help but not without makeing sure that convoy is safe. hopfully there are other ships nearby or at least a station. Station are heavly armed and guarded a good place to go if under attack.

Third. if the worst case senerio happens and they have already commenced the attack i would instuct the mining vessal to self destuct supplies are easy to replace. Next i would as quickly as possible get close enough to beam them aboard, at the same time i would send the convoy back to or toward a federation station (for reasons listed above) at maxium warp while i took care of our klingon friends. in the end most likely the best you would be able to do is grab the minnors and get the hell out of there because if they have already attacked then its likly that they have more back up as even with what you have already seen your ship if outfitted properly should be more that a match you would likely take some damage but you should win.

these are the solutions that come to mind they might not be perfect but its what spring to mind.

Marvelltrek

07-24-2009, 11:47 PM

Well alright I would send the convoy to the neares cover according to any fitting starchart.
Send 1-2 officer with them to help them in bad situations. Like Harry Kim in Voyager episode "Nightingale".
And the lets show the Klingons what we're made off. We are god damn Tyrannosaurus Rex of the space.:mad::D

kieranloftus

07-24-2009, 11:53 PM

save the miners

Amblin

07-24-2009, 11:58 PM

I'd fire on the mining ship claiming he's a wanted smuggler, throwing off the klingons.

Then see what they'd do, given they won't attack the mining ship as that would be assisting the Federation. Then attempt to tractor the mining ship and lead it to safety.

Better to have a mining ship with need of engine repairs than no mining ship and 3 v 1 fight that I might not win.

Obviously a full volley of quantum torpedoes and phaser fire is overkill so, i'd be choosy and targert the latrines. =p

Ferengi-Used-Auto

07-24-2009, 11:59 PM

Travel to the edge of Klingon Space, hail the Korok. Explain that the captain of the errant mining vessel acted without honor in disobeying orders. Execute the captain of the mining vessel via hand-waving technobabble while the Klingons are on three-way holochat and convince them that the problem has been dealt with, and it would be dishonorable to attack a crew of miners, as they are not warriors fit to die by Klingon hands.

Solves the problem of how to get the ship back, and eliminates a problematic officer with no loss of face on anyone's part.

Avenger_Dragon

07-25-2009, 12:21 AM

The Captain and crew of a ship make each decision knowing the possible consequences. Leaving the convoy could put all of the other ships at risk.

I say: Let the Captain accept his Darwin Award and continue your duty to the convoy.

Yup

Problems
1. Why would money matter money has been abolished.
2. Why didn't the First Officer step in and stop the captain.

1. It;s been proven money still exists and is later explained in #2.
2. Chances are it's a greedy civilian ship and as such don't use a second officer unless it fits the captain's fancy.

What I would do?

Chances are i sent out a message to call the klingons anyways!

Upon receiving the distress signal, i'd send a localized message back to all involved ships.

"By removing himself from our convoy and intentionally crossing into Klingon space, the ship released any protection the federation would grant. I am sure the captain of the unarmed and unworthy vessel would appreciate a slight display of mercy by allowing him to dump his cargo hold of your rocks and letting him return to our task group. And if the ship does not COMPLETELY empty their cargo, i wouldn't be surprised if it was treated as stealing from the empire. Qapla' "

MajorD

07-25-2009, 12:23 AM

I leave the ship to die, because there are no ships near the Klingon neutral zone to die.

All bulk freighters are actually impulse only and within the systems where ships are constructed, collecting all the resources they need from local asteroid belts. Local asteroid belts possess sufficient resources for the production of ships for the next million years, eliminating the need for interstellar transport of resources. The exceptions are unusually rare substances such as dilithium, which is now recycled and artificially grown in large quantities, further diminishing the need of deep space transportation of unfinished goods.

turttleboy

07-25-2009, 12:44 AM

It is a convoy. supplies might be in high demand but that doesn't mean the ships in the convoy dont have weapons and sheilds. the convoy stops, you save the ship, and the klingons hate you for destroying their pretty little ships.

destucto2005

07-25-2009, 03:03 AM

I would hail the klingon vessel and try to persuade them to leave the mining vessel alone. Surely there is no honour in destroying a tiny defensles mining vessel? If the klingons do not give up the ship then im afraid i would have to leave it to the klingons mercy. For all i know it was the klingons plan to lure me away from the convoy so more ships could decloak and destroy the convoy while i was not there. There is near Klingon space afterall.

Kheren

07-25-2009, 03:10 AM

Yup
1. It;s been proven money still exists and is later explained in #2.
2. Chances are it's a greedy civilian ship and as such don't use a second officer unless it fits the captain's fancy.

Sorry Sir but you're still living in the 21st Century

1- In the Federation, money is not used anymore because all necessary goods and material needs are fully and freely provided through planetwide solar energy and replicator technology

'' Economics of the future is somwehay different. You see, the pursuit of material wealth is no longer relevant in our lives.
No money? You mean you don't get paid! ''

Captain Jean-Luc Picard and Lilly
First Contact

2- Currency is used only when dealing with cultures that are still using it (like Ferengis with their gold pressed latinum) usually through the form of Federation Credits: vouchers for any material item requested that would be replicated for them.

'' I'd give him real money if he'd just shut up! ''

Doctor Leonard Mc Coy
The Undiscovered Country

3- it is used only for ''unreplicable materials'' like artwork, very rare elements and complex vaccines etc. when provided by currency-using cultures that would not accept a direct exchange of goods and services.

Did you also ever heard even once technologically equal cultures like Klingons and Romulans speaking of money themselves? They have the same technology too.

''They're still using money here.''

Admiral Kirk
The Voyage Home

That is why this scenario is basically flawed... unless you're referring to something like EVE Online where economics is everything.

'' When I asked him what it was about he said to me:
In the future, their will be no hunger, no poverty, no greed... ''

Jonathan Frakes about
how Gene Roddenberry
defined Star Trek

vonshadow

07-25-2009, 03:32 AM

i will ask the mining vessel to drop their shields for immediate transport . i will enhance the transporters so to not leave the convoy unguarded

Rota

07-25-2009, 03:56 AM

So I outclass the klingons? ok, then it's no problem.

Charge in and target to disable klingon propulsion and warp systems, allowing the mining vessel to escape their grasp. Now I pull every trick I have to create "faux damage" so the klingons think they are winning. I flee, giving the klingons a VICTORY in battle. noone loses a ship and noone loses honor (except that mining captaqin)

Avenger_Dragon

07-25-2009, 04:10 AM

Sorry Sir but you're still living in the 21st Century

1- In the Federation, money is not used anymore because all necessary goods and material needs are fully and freely provided through planetwide solar energy and replicator technology

'' Economics of the future is somwehay different. You see, the pursuit of material wealth is no longer relevant in our lives.
No money? You mean you don't get paid! ''

Captain Jean-Luc Picard and Lilly
First Contact

2- Currency is used only when dealing with cultures that are still using it (like Ferengis with their gold pressed latinum) usually through the form of Federation Credits: vouchers for any material item requested that would be replicated for them.

'' I'd give him real money if he'd just shut up! ''

Doctor Leonard Mc Coy
The Undiscovered Country

3- it is used only for ''unreplicable materials'' like artwork, very rare elements and complex vaccines etc. when provided by currency-using cultures that would not accept a direct exchange of goods and services.

Did you also ever heard even once technologically equal cultures like Klingons and Romulans speaking of money themselves? They have the same technology too.

''They're still using money here.''

Admiral Kirk
The Voyage Home

That is why this scenario is basically flawed... unless you're referring to something like EVE Online where economics is everything.

'' When I asked him what it was about he said to me:
In the future, their will be no hunger, no poverty, no greed... ''

Jonathan Frakes about
how Gene Roddenberry
defined Star Trek

No other major culture never talks about money becaue there is no reason for them to during the show, aside from dealing with quark, so currency does exist. and mining is a less than pleasant thing that nobody "Wants" to do because of risks. So, here come the holograms, and holograms are just programs carrying out their orders., so why would a ship up and leave? logic would be some living commander out to make something, traditionally that would be some kind of money. And since mining is usually a civilian task, not military, possibly even freelance/3rd party to gain resources faster that isn't directly connected with the UFP.

I'm pretending the mission isn't broken, just convoluded.

moppy244f1

07-25-2009, 04:12 AM

I would fire a warning shot with my photon torpedo's if thay star tread firing i would disable one of their ships and say thay had no honor firing on a mining ship :)

Delvas

07-25-2009, 04:15 AM

I'd leave the convoy to save the ship then throw her captain in the brig for the rest of the trip so he can't pull anymore shenanegans.

msbglarry

07-25-2009, 05:21 AM

I would stay with the convoy. The captain of the derelect mining vessel has made his own choice to destroy himself.
My mission is to protect the convoy.:)

Laurelin

07-25-2009, 05:50 AM

MXN

07-25-2009, 05:58 AM

I would hail the Klingon ships and tell them to back down, if then didn't back down and attacked i would stay with the convoy and follow orders, and at the same time call for support. You really have to pick choice one or choice two, and orders rule out every thing else. But i could not see another way around this one.

Kheren

07-25-2009, 06:18 AM

Mining ships are civilian ships, firing on one that has not attacked you will get you court martialed and stripped of command. They are not starfleet vessels and are not under your command, you have no legal authority to detain or arrest their captain for ignoring your "orders", unless he is violating Federation law.
.

Sorry Sir but you have it all wrong:

These are your standing orders:

General Order 24
If a commanding officer deems that an individual or group of individuals pose a threat to Starfleet personnel or Federation civilians, he may take any action deemed necessary (including force) to secure the safety of those threatened.

Crossing the Neutral zone is violating the law and poses a grave threat (war) to Starfleet personel and Federation citizens.

[General Order 33
If a commanding officer deems that an individual or group of individuals pose a direct threat to the safety of Starfleet personnel, Federation citizens, or those under current Federation protection, they may take any actions necessary to safeguard the lives of those threatened. In such cases, the commander may use their discretion in deciding whether to use force. However, care should be taken to avoid unnecessary loss of sentient life.

Risking general war to fulfill criminal intent is more than enough of a threat to intervene.

General Order 34
All Starfleet personnel and/or Federation civilian contractors shall follow a superior's order to the best of their ability, unless said orders should conflict with the regulation laid out in these orders. Special dispensations are granted in emergency situations as per specific orders, with the exceptions of General Orders 1, 2, 3, or 7.

As Escort, you are the superior officer in charge. The safety of the convoy is as much your responsibility as is the safety of the Federation and of your ship and crew. Therefore you are in command.

General Order 36
No Federation vessel, whether civilian or Starfleet, is allowed to visit a planet or star system placed under quarantine by Starfleet or the Federation Council unless the visitation falls under the jurisdictional actions accredited by General Orders 1, 5, and 6.

The Neutral Zone falls under the definition of quarantine: closed to any access. the mining ship is breaking the law and moreover to further commit admitted criminal intent (stealing resources from a neigboring government). You are in command: it is your responsibility. He must obey... or face the consequences.

Draconianknight

07-25-2009, 06:46 AM

Sorry Sir but you have it all wrong:

These are your standing orders:

General Order 24
If a commanding officer deems that an individual or group of individuals pose a threat to Starfleet personnel or Federation civilians, he may take any action deemed necessary (including force) to secure the safety of those threatened.

Crossing the Neutral zone is violating the law and poses a grave threat (war) to Starfleet personel and Federation citizens.

[General Order 33
If a commanding officer deems that an individual or group of individuals pose a direct threat to the safety of Starfleet personnel, Federation citizens, or those under current Federation protection, they may take any actions necessary to safeguard the lives of those threatened. In such cases, the commander may use their discretion in deciding whether to use force. However, care should be taken to avoid unnecessary loss of sentient life.

Risking general war to fulfill criminal intent is more than enough of a threat to intervene.

General Order 34
All Starfleet personnel and/or Federation civilian contractors shall follow a superior's order to the best of their ability, unless said orders should conflict with the regulation laid out in these orders. Special dispensations are granted in emergency situations as per specific orders, with the exceptions of General Orders 1, 2, 3, or 7.

As Escort, you are the superior officer in charge. The safety of the convoy is as much your responsibility as is the safety of the Federation and of your ship and crew. Therefore you are in command.

General Order 36
No Federation vessel, whether civilian or Starfleet, is allowed to visit a planet or star system placed under quarantine by Starfleet or the Federation Council unless the visitation falls under the jurisdictional actions accredited by General Orders 1, 5, and 6.

The Neutral Zone falls under the definition of quarantine: closed to any access. the mining ship is breaking the law and moreover to further commit admitted criminal intent (stealing resources from a neigboring government). You are in command: it is your responsibility. He must obey... or face the consequences.

Ok so your a fanatic and know all of your general orders.
Unfortuantely I have to agree with the basics of the qoute. History has shown that when tensions are high between to opposing factions. The slightest misunderstanding can cause a serious conflict.
Tatically the only solution that I could see is to inform the Klingons that the Captain acted stupidly and on his own accord. Attempt to have them allow the ship to leave peacfully of its own accord under the command of its First Officer. If not then remove the crew as soon as in transporter range. Torpedo the ship so the Klingons can not capture it and throw the captain in the brig. But at no time allow the Klingon ship to endanger the convoy.

deltaraven666

07-25-2009, 07:26 AM

well in the true kobayashi maru someone has to die.
So i would halt the convoy and approach the klingons with weapons offline and sheilds up.
explain what happened then offer the captain to them as it was he who dissobayed a direct order not his crew.
After allowing the klingons to do a full inspection of the freighter i would let them impound the ship if need be and ask that the crew be transported to my ship.

I did it this way to try and smooth relations with the klingons.
Thats why instead of demanding that the captain be released to me.
I let the klingons have him because he crossed their boarders.

Draconianknight

07-25-2009, 07:47 AM

Kheren

07-25-2009, 07:51 AM

Ok so your a fanatic and know all of your general orders.

You bet your pointed ears I am! :p

Draconianknight

07-25-2009, 07:58 AM

You bet your pointed ears I am! :p

HA! well put! It will be a shame to put a torpedo up your tail pipe. But then again I will enjoy it just the same!

Terra_Blade

07-25-2009, 08:34 AM

I would mark the time and place for the freighter's destruction. In a time of war or even heightened tensions if a convoy has orders to a destination and is assigned a military escort, that escort's word is pretty much law. You don't follow it they usually have the right to show you the error of your ways by destroying you.

So if the ship decided to leave the safety of the convoy knowing the risks then that ship can pay for them. My orders were to escort the convoy, not protect idiots from themselves.

screechprime

07-25-2009, 08:38 AM

I would go with the whole "Needs of the many" axiom. Knowing that supplies are in high demand, and knowing that the flotilla I am escorting has said resources onboard, I would maintain position and protect the remaining cargo vessels. What I most certainly do not want to do is:
1) Fly off to engage the Klingons. his would be considered an act of war, and l the excuse the Klingons need to launch a mass invasion of the Federation.
2) Attempt to protect the roge transport. This would put both my ship in the direct fireing line of the Klingons, and leave my, now undefended,transport convoy open to more suprise attacks
3) Hail the Klingons. A waste of time. If three warships decloak in plain sight and attack without provocation, the chances are very slim that I could convince them to stop without either rshing to the defence of the freighter, or shooting p the Klingons.

What I would do, however, is send out a wideband open communication to all ships in the sector, warning them to the lurking Klingon raiders

Conman

07-25-2009, 09:17 AM

I would hail the klingons with a message of appology for the idiocy of the mineing ships craptain and that the crew did not share his foolishness. Then ask them permission to retrieve the ship on our own with there supervision.

Hopefully my belittleing of the mineing ship has helped convince them it wouldnt be an honorable kill.

However if the klingons powered weapons and fired to attack rather then warn i would interceed and proceed with shields tractors and transporters to gain control of the mining ship and fly ourselves out of there.

Telinous

07-25-2009, 09:22 AM

Notify all partys involved that the vessel is in violation of orders and per Star Fleet mandate her captain and crew must be retrieved for trial. I would thank the klingon fleet for obtaining the rouge vessel and apologize for the violation of their territory, emphasizing subtly that any attack on the vessel, my ship, or the convoy is a act of war and will be meet with swift brutal retaliation.

Tiberius_John_Worthing

07-25-2009, 09:58 AM

I would follow orders and stay with the convoy. If some damn fool miner wants to go off and get his ship destroyed, what business is it of mine to interfere.

metl

07-25-2009, 10:17 AM

I would stay with the convoy. The tension is bad enough as it is, and a federation ship crossing into Klingon space would certainly not help things. Plus, I don't have much love for glory hunters. They get what they get.

typhoonjim

07-25-2009, 10:28 AM

My mission is to escort a convoy. As has been said before he knew the risk .
And I have my orders.The need of the many outweigh the need of the few.

TYPHOONJIM

Adster2009

07-25-2009, 10:36 AM

I'd hail the klingons and try to convince them that it was a navigation problem that made them fly into klingon territory. If they can't be convinced, I would do a flyby and beam their crew/captain aboard and get out of there and let the mining ship be destroyed. Afterall, I warned the captain before he went in there that I couldn't protect them, so it was their own fault.

It seems that the best course of action has been submitted, aka this is what I'd do.

Homerider1

07-25-2009, 10:37 AM

i would hail the klingons and tell them that the mining ship went against my orders and i would severly punish the insubordinant captian.
if that didnt work i would tell the convoy to halt and charge weapons meanwhile telling the klingons that if they charge their weapons then i will fire upon all of them with photon torpedos and phasers and if they turn on me the mining ship will get to escape then the rest of the convoy and me would hit warp

Anichent

07-25-2009, 10:46 AM

I leave the Mining Ship and her stupid Captain to die, not because the Captain was belligerent, but because

a) That goes against my orders
b) I have no authority in Klingon space
c) The Klingons have every right to attack the ship since it entered their space
d) 3 Klingon ships against 1 Excalibur class ship is bad odds.

ruggedjohn

07-25-2009, 11:06 AM

i would not leave my convoy. I would attempt to negotiate with the klingons to retrieve the miners, allowing them to retain the vessel and its captain and thus some honour trophies.
However i would be suspicious that the minning captain was part of a plot to lure me away from the convoy.

Onyx135

07-25-2009, 11:30 AM

I would go save the mining ship. and then court-marshal his @$$ back to the stone age.

redsky86

07-25-2009, 11:52 AM

i would stay with the convoy but try to negotiate the whole time running an anti cloak scan to try and detect any other Klingon vessels. if there are no vessels and the Klingons refuse my negotiations fly on and blow those nonnegotiable bipeds back to the hole they crawled out of. the in would take that captain and court marshal him and put him on public display in the main galley of my vessel. humiliation should set him straight (if not there is always a phase or an airlock).

Archangelwoghd

07-25-2009, 12:05 PM

You gotta be kidding with this one, right?
Why would a fully loaded Miner leave the convoy? To deliver cargo to someone other than stated at the start of the convoy?

This is the miner's Kobayashi maru scenario, not yours. Any idiot that leaves the protection of a convoy on a mission of greed deserves whatever they get. The crew isn't so innocent either, they should have tossed their captain out an airlock just for entertaining the bizarre idea. Since they didn't, there is obviously something more to the story.

Anyway, the convoy must move on, there are perfectly sane Federation miners to protect.

EDIT: I'd question the other Captains to see if they knew anything about the guy, and make a report to Starfleet apon our arrival at destination. There is no point in even concerning starfleet at this time, any other starships diverted would only be removed from where they are needed, and there's nothing for them to do here, other than make the Klingons upset. If I radioed anyone, it would be to inform the klingons that they will get no trouble from us.

jhem99

07-25-2009, 12:18 PM

I'd convince the Klingons that it would beneath their honor to shoot a defensless vessel with people onboard, even for target practise, and to let me beam the crew abord. The Klingons can use the empty ship now for target practise.

Allaryn

07-25-2009, 12:38 PM

I'd bring the whole convoy with me into the fight and have them all start firing anything they had at the Klingons, and set a course for ramming speed, throw rocks out the locks if they have to.

J/K I'd leave him and his ship to whatever fate the Klingon chose for him, which is likely capture for him and his ship and release onto a local neutral planet for the crew...Klingons have standards & practices too.

kekvin85

07-25-2009, 01:40 PM

I would take the convoy to the edge of the neutral zone. Hail the kilngons and tell them the truth about the captain disobaying orders. i would then transport the captain and crew to my ship and leave the klingons with the abondend freighter

Darth_Angelus

07-25-2009, 01:44 PM

I'd lock my tractor beam onto the rogue ship before it warped away to begin with, then have the captain beamed over and thrown into the brig for putting the lives of his crew, my ship and the rest of the convoy at risk.

If the ship got away before I could do that, I'd contact the Klingons, tell them the ship is a renegade and negotiate the right to cross their border and arrest the captain and his crew for the same reasons listed above. With the relations between the Federation and Klingon Empire already so unstable, a more aggressive approach would start a war.

Woodysw

07-25-2009, 01:46 PM

To quote the words of Ambassador Spock "The needs of the many, out weight the needs of the few

It would be illogical to leave the convoy and jeopardize its safety for the chance that the mining ship can be safely returned to the convoy. Three Klingons against a mining ship, it would be unlikely that my ship would arrive before the Klingons have blasted the hell out of that mining ship.
And with the convoy being rather close to the Klingon neutral zone there is a risk that convoy could easily be attacked.
The captain of the mining vessel chose his fate and must suffer the consequences!

DarkOrion69

07-25-2009, 02:22 PM

I will assume that the Federation and the Klingon Empire are still at "Cold War" for the purposes of this KM.

Frankly, Starfleet cannot afford to provoke the Klingon Empire over the minor matter of a transport violating the Neutral Zone. It is most likely that the crew of the transport (and it's arrogant captain) will be spending many fun filled days in a Klingon Labor Camp. I had already told the captain it was a bad idea and that I would have no part in his madness...let the fool rot for his avarice.

Kheren

07-25-2009, 02:22 PM

HA! well put! It will be a shame to put a torpedo up your tail pipe. But then again I will enjoy it just the same!

Attacking without provocation from behind... why am I not surprised?:p

Ryan121

07-25-2009, 02:23 PM

You would instruct the other ships you were protecting to remain at their current position. You can not just let a ship be destroyed even if they did a foolish thing like this.

You would then send out a distress call for assistance while you transport the crew from the ship in Klingon space on to your ship as it's unlikely the mining vessel would survive many hits so you will just have to accept it being lost, the lives are more important.

Return to the other mining vessels and wait for a ship that responds to your distress call to take the captain of the mining vessel and then he can be dealt with for disobeying orders while you continue on with your mission.

Inquizitor

07-25-2009, 02:39 PM

This one is one of the better scenerios I've seen. I have the same answer but two reasonings depending on weather or not we are at war with the klingons. Either way I stay with the convoy.

If we are not at war wiht the klingons then the Klingons have a valid reason to detain teh vessel. It is not a warship so there is no honor in destroying it unless it actualyl tries to escape or fight back. Assuming the Captain isn't a complete idiot he would surrender. The Diplomats would then sort it out. If I entered Klingon space it would create an even alrger incident.

On the flip side let us sa we are at war. I cannot leave the convoy as the convoy is carrying critical supplies for the war effort. The Klingons would jump at the cahnce to take that out as opposed to the ship that doesnt have any cargo yet. It would end very badly for th at ship but he willingly went into Klingon space. We aren't talking about the Kobiashi maru where they accidently drifted into Klingon Space. Furthermore I have no intel on the area In a wartime scenerio such as this I m sure the KDF has been alerted to teh incursion and there may already be cloaked Klingon ships there. Just because only three of them has shown up doesn't mean there wouldn't be more. Should that happen and I am destroyed or diabled then I lose both the errant ship and my convoy.

This isn't your standard distress call. The willingly and intentionally broke the law. Kinda hits close to home with a certain situation we have IRL with North Korea. WE couldn't just charge in with the military and free those two journalists and this fictional captain did far worse than they did since he was intending to commit theft. It's up to the Diplomats now. May God have mercy on their souls...

CaptainGeran

07-25-2009, 03:06 PM

I would warp to the mining vessel. Destroy the Bird-of-preys and damage the other klingon, then say "Booya, klingon!!!" then destroy him. then I would warp back to the colony.

SasukeItachi2486

07-25-2009, 03:51 PM

I would make a note in the ships log and relieve the Captain of his Command. Then I would hail the three Klingon Warships and ask them to stand down or face the Federations newest ship in battle. Extend my shields around the convoy and fire a warning shot across their hulls without hesitation. Then if they proceed to engage in combat. I would arm a full spread of Torpedos aiemd at all three ships and send out one last message to stand down or be destroyed.

picardalpha2clearance

07-25-2009, 03:54 PM

hail the klingons and explain a rogue captain entered their space and we are trying to apprehend thae vessel, and I would act with honor in the punishment of such captain to preserve the empire. If there were no objections I would beam the crew and values onto my ship, just before firing upon the frieghter destroying it. Klingons like action not lip service.

Star_strike

07-25-2009, 04:23 PM

I would assist the mining vessel under attack by the klingon warships, first by hailing the klingons and demand why they are attacking a defenceless mining vessel. Depending on the response, i would the try to reason with the klingons, explaining the incompetence of the Captain and of his actions he shall be punished then lead the mining vessel back to the convoy to continue the primary objective after the escort has been completed, the Captain of the mining vessel would be court marshalled for unnecessary danger to the the mission at hand and for endangering the lives of not only his own crew but the crew of my own ship and that of the other mining vessels

Of course if the klingons persist on attack the mining vessels, i shall once again hail them, informing them of the "misfortune" that will come to them if they continue, then if there is no compliance, open fire on the klingons disabling their weapons and engines so no more pursuit can be made.

getawaybot

07-25-2009, 05:06 PM

I would hail the Klingon vessels, thanking them for finding this dipstick. Cross the boarder, beam aboard the marines to the mining vessel drag it back across the boarder and invite the Klingns to watch an old fashion flogging of the miner captian.

AloneMordakai

07-25-2009, 05:32 PM

I would remain with the rest of the convoy as is my duty. I would attempt to communicate with the Klingons, claiming that the border-crosser is a pirate that attempted to disable and loot one of my ships. I would demand his return so that he could face Federation justice, and that by keeping him they are harboring a fugitive of the Federation. If the Klingons do not fall for my ruse then I can atleast report back to Starfleet that I tried to help him, even though he is an idiot.

Kadentabreu

07-25-2009, 05:42 PM

This week's scenario is inspired by Captain.Thorne. Good luck!
I would tell the enemy ships it was an accident and if they arent convinced i would tell them i would pay them $100. If they say no, i will say "o well i tried" and let the mining ship blow up because i told them not to do it

Kadentabreu

07-25-2009, 05:45 PM

O well itried to help u

blackdue5

07-25-2009, 05:51 PM

I would
1) warn the Klingons that if they did not stop firing on that ship that they would get the honor of dying.
-if they did continue I would destroy them quickly
-I would call for any friendly ships near by to see if they can assist in protecting the convoy while I am busy with saving the reckless captian and his ship.
2) send engineers on that ship to repair the vital system (Warp engines, Life support, things to get it up and moving again) take all wounded on boared everyone else would be repairing the ship
3) take it in tow back to the convoy (I would think by now I could tow a ship in warp :confused:) :eek:

During this I would keep an open channel with the convoy to make sure nothing attacks them as long with make sure my crew did a detail scan around and ahead of the convoy to make sure they will be safe for a few mins. If the convoy gets the slight hint of being in danger than I have all obligaions to stay with the convoy and protect them.

CaptKam

07-25-2009, 06:03 PM

I would chase the frieghter into Klingon space, then hail the Klingon ships. I'd tell them the frieghter captain is a mercenary spy working for the Gorn and I had been tracking him for several weeks and he had just commandeered the frieghter to try to get into Klingon space. I would then let the Klingons take the captian into custody as long as I took custody of the rest of the crew and ship. If the Klingons do not agree I would disable the crusier first and then tractor the frieghter back to Federation space; I doubt the B'rels would follow me into Federation space.

In either case, the frieghter captain will either have to deal with the Federation judical system.... or the Klingon system. :D

damo

07-25-2009, 07:08 PM

Very good scenario, well done for writing it!

Now to the plan:

I'd hail the Klingons and explain that the ship has veered off course due to a malfunction in their navigational array. I'd immediately warp to the ship and send a boarding party to take the captain into custody (to the Klingons, they would only know that we are sending in a repair crew) and redirect the ship back on course.

I would talk to the Klingons down from a fight as there is no honour in destroying a target that cannot fight back. Once the ship is back in the convoy, the freighter Captain will be thrown in the brig for the remainder of the mission and lord help him when he gets back to Starfleet.

If the Klingons did attack the convoy when I go help the freighter then they would be commiting an act of war against the United Federation of Planets and with their currently stretched resources on two war fronts, they can't afford to start trouble. So I'd also make this point clear to them when in communication.

wanobi22

07-25-2009, 07:28 PM

Very good scenario, well done for writing it!

Why thank you ^_^ Not bad for something quick before passing out after work, huh?

I'm glad (the most of) you all like the scenario. I like a lot of the responses. A lot of people putting other thoughts that I didn't even think about, or write out.

Jigarothu

07-25-2009, 10:29 PM

I would hail the Klingon and warn them not to beam aboard cause the crew has a disease, and then beam the crew aboard my ship and scuttle their mining vessel.

Archangelwoghd

07-25-2009, 11:04 PM

I would hail the klingons and tell them that there is great honor in destroying a renegade who does not follow orders and tell them the truth. If they *DIDN'T* end up destroying the mining vessel, I would inform starfleet that the Captain was likely some sort of spy.

TomStryker

07-25-2009, 11:36 PM

Okay first of all how many times have we seen this? A starfleet member with high authority, stubborn in his own ways goes off to do what he desires regardless of regulation or his crew. In all honesty it would be justice for the captain to walk into his demise in spite of his arrogance however death does not seem like a reasonable punishment becuase what would he learn from it? Or us for that matter? I get his butt and his crew aboard my ship, wouldnt waste time trying to convince the Klingons it was a mistake, I'd tell like it is that his own ignorance got him here and he will be dealt with perosnally. If they don't like it to bad. Here is another thought. The high risk high reward thing.... lets go back to the TNG era when a certain Admiral ran an experiment on his ship the Pegaseus. The Admiral literally disregarded everything from lesser grade officers to fulfill his own indulgance on a prototype federation cloaking device ( which was very cool might I add ). The point is, this captain obviously has a motive that is more than meets the eye. I'd like to seriously know what he is hiding. After all, do you believe someone with such ignorance would really tell the truth of his intentions? I think not....

savorybiscuits

07-26-2009, 12:51 AM

trentdaniel92

07-26-2009, 01:00 AM

MikeRice1983

07-26-2009, 01:03 AM

I would negotiate with the Klingons (hopefully the Klingon captain is an old friend of mine). I'd reassure the Klingons that this was a mere navigational error on the Mining Ships behalf. I'd also have the Mining Captain direct his ship back into Federation space and have him beamed to my ship and thrown into the brig for disobeying a superior commander. I'd have his second in command take over command and have him rejoin the convoy.

(( I do see a flaw with the senario itself...the author mentions that you are on an Excalibur-class Starship.....that is kind of impossible, because that ship isn't put into service until 2391 and the current year is 2390. So you would be in essence on a different type of Starfleet vessel.))

Sincerely,
CDR Mikal Rice
CSCI, USS Oathkeeper

Ora

07-26-2009, 03:34 AM

Entering the Neutral Zone is against the law. As soon as the mining ship broke ranks with intent to enter the zone it should have been disbled and the Captain arrested, this situation would never have happened

Father_Origin

07-26-2009, 04:41 AM

I would send a msg to the Captain of the Klingon task force telling them
that the captain of that ship is mentally unstable...and hardly worth expending
the energy to shoot him with a phaser.

I would also inform them it is within thier rights to blow him to space dust however it might
be more ammusing to hand him back to me so we could slip a body restraint on him and
stick him in a low gravity rubber room.......thier call.

UssShadow

07-26-2009, 04:42 AM

well i would start buy hailing the head of the convoy to have them move faster twards the klingons then i would hail them to stall them as the convoy and i got closer mean while i have the convoy hail the mineing ship to alter corse to us even tho kilingons love a good fight that aint moreons they see a strong enoght ship with plenty of back up i know they wont try to pick a fight if they do they get vaperized on spot even if the convoy only has light weps enoght fireing at one ship can even destroy a galxy class star ship

(quick verson for non readers) hail convoy (Dubble time it to minning vesel) Covoy hails mineing ship(alter corse on this heading) Uss Shadow to kingons (This is Captin Ryu of the Uss Shadow break of your attack run or you will be faceing down this convoy of ships over a measly mineing ship) Minning ship meets up with convoy kingons back off if not BOOOOOM kingons get owned

one4chaos

07-26-2009, 04:44 AM

I would:

1. Hail the Klingons and explain the situation. They can be belligerent, but they are not fools, if they believe they might lose the combat (say if you lead them to believe other ships were on the way) they would be more reasonable. They want to die in combat, not throw their lives away. Offer to leave the Captain who broke their laws with them and take the crew with you. They will likely impound the ship. Let it go.

2. If they don't agree, you must follow your orders and defend the convoy. The needs of the many......

Another option,(that I likely wouldn't do unless I was convinced the Klingons wouldn't cross the Neutral Zone) that would require some luck, is to try and get the mining vessel back on your side of the boarder. This would make it possible for you to claim the incident never happened (very Romulan, I know). It's possible that this will cause a fight, but at least you can claim that technically the ship was in Federation space. (If you live)

"How do you define unwarranted?"
Admiral Kirk

UssShadow

07-26-2009, 04:45 AM

well problem occurs with most peoples ideas they dont cover a what if senario what if the kingons what a fight or if the mineing ship dose not change corse now in all these cases is a worst case cause if one thing gose wrong boom no more ship you need to think of the best case at all cost u try to save the ship but dont risk 1000 lifes for 40

UssShadow

07-26-2009, 04:49 AM

well probelm agin new captins like your self have no freinds in the klingons so yea your hope fails and klingons would rather blow some thing up for enter there space then obey an order of a human ok i mean you need to think ever detail tru i mean klingons whant to fight but if they cant win they would rather fight 100 fights then die in one in some case but if u move the convoy to the mineing ship and the mineing ship change corse 10 ships vs 2 10 ships win or will deal alot of dammage before they run

UssShadow

07-26-2009, 04:52 AM

I would hail the Klingon ships telling them that the mining vessel is not following my orders and that they have my permision to tractor the vesel back into Federation space and that they are to go no further. If they do not respond to this idea i would launch a small group of shuttles to warp in and beam aboard the crew of the mining vessel, the shuttles would have to use the mining vessel barrier between them and the klingon ships, once they have the crew onboard they will warp back to the convoy.

ok for one klingons agin would rather kill then do the federation a favor you have to think and not rely on kligons ok i mean i get that you cant think as detailed as me but i dont know ever detail of a ship like in star trek online i can take 4 romulan light curisers agenst 4 battle ships and win with out loseing a ship its all about tactics and makeing sure you can hit them before they hit you

Stink100

07-26-2009, 08:44 AM

Ok heres what I would do, I would order the entire convoy to stay close to me, and head for the mining ship that was surrounded by Klingons and then engage them and I would do this for three reasons:

1.) There may be other cloaked Klingon vessels that are trying to lure me away from the convoy so they can open fire on the bulk of the convoy.

2.) There is no gurantee that if I stay with the convoy it will be safe, as the Klingons may be able to destroy one or two ships anyway before I could manage to eliminate one of their ships with my one vessel.

3.) If I do not assist the vessel in distress I would be giving up my obligation to assist any vessel in distress.

baileysdad

07-26-2009, 08:49 AM

i would continue to protect the convoy while hailing the klingons and letting them know that the captain of the mining vessel did not have permission from me or the federation of planets to violate klingon space. i would then ask the klingons to let me deal with the rogue captain on my own and once they agree move in and use a tractor beam to pull the rogue vessel back to the convoy. the rogue captain would be beamed aboard my ship and put in a holding cell until we reach our final destination and the first officer would be promoted to captain and be warned that if he does not follow my orders i will destroy his ship to prevent him from doing any damage to the reputation of the federation of planets.

WinterRose

07-26-2009, 09:05 AM

My crew of Mechanicals and Holograms would likely run the odds of being able to fly in, beam the captain and his people out before the Klingons could vape them. However, if the Klingons found the errant captain that quickly, I would surmise that they were waiting for an opportunity to strike the rest of the convoy. An opportunity I could not allow on behalf of the errant captain. In the end, the errant captain will serve the rest of the federation better as a bad example. He cut himself loose, he will deal with the consequences.

Vicelance

07-26-2009, 09:39 AM

I would have stopped the mining ships captain from entering the Neutral Zone and crossing the border by taking out his engines and towing the ship the moment he tried to leave the convoy after one warning to stay in line.

If for some reason he managed to cross without me stopping him I would hail the Klingon ships and ask them to release the ships crew with or without the captain if they wanted to keep him to face charges. He planned to enter Klingon territory and commit theft no point trying to deny that to the Klingons. Let the Klingons keep the ship.

The crew of the mining ship gets put in the brig of my ship or sent to one of the other mining ships depending on their role in violating Federation laws.

If the Klingons won't release the crew I will report the incident to Starfleet and continue on my mission, no point risking the entire convoy for one ship.

brigidt

07-26-2009, 09:59 AM

First, I'd hail the Klingons, telling them they plan to destroy what in their eyes would be a dishonorable enemy. He wasn't supposed to be there. I'd tell him that if he wants, I can save him the dishonor of firing upon a coward by arresting the captain of the mining vessel once it returned to neutral or federation space.

If the Klingons disagree with my statement, I'd show them the orders, and then disengage, returning my focus to the convoy. I would send a quick message to the captain of the mining vessel explaining that he went out of line, and then return my attention to the convoy and escorting them.

Archangelwoghd

07-26-2009, 10:33 AM

I still think that the rogue Captain's actions are so irrational that there MUST be something more to the story. Fully loaded Cargo ships just don't leave convoys. What POSSIBLE high risk proposition could the Captain have had in mind? What did he plan to do with the cargo intended for federation operations? Dump it for something he saw as more valuable?

Imagine what would happen to one of today's cargo ship captains who left a convoy, loaded with tank or aircraft parts, to go into enemy waters...it's just insane. Unless it's a spy mission.

I stongly suspect the Captain is a spy (either for, or against the Federation), and the whole scenario a cover for the exchange of information.

coolruningc

07-26-2009, 11:45 AM

hello all first time posting hear so hear what I would do as captian.

I would never leave the convoy. For many reasons I would contact star fleet explane to them what has happned before taken some acation.

To safe gurde the convoy I would leave sorcer sep me star ship if it has that option and take the battle ship side to the kliongs. hailing them to stand down as there is no hornor in killing an unarmed ship.

As for the naughty mining ship once secure in my tactor beem I would then hull it back to the convoy with the captain and first officer in my brige. thus completing the safe retune of the ore and sall ships. My eneglsih is not good with out spell cheacker so bear that in mind thanks.

Calydin

07-26-2009, 11:58 AM

After being alerted to the situation I order my communications officer to contact Star Fleet and make them aware of the current episode. At that point I order my navigation officer to get us as close to the mining vessel as possible while telling the security officer to get ready to lower shields and notify the transporter room to get all transporters ready to bring over the mining crew from their vessel.

I then have the tactics officer evaluate the upcoming confrontation and to give me a review of what we are up against as I order all non-essential personal to their quarters in light of the ensuing fight. After the communications officer has notified Star Fleet, I have them locate other Star Fleet vessels to come and help secure the convoy as we prepare to save the miners.

Once I have done that I contact the Klingons and begin a dialogue to try and give us extra time and bargain the safety of our people. In this I offer them the vessel if they would simply let the people go and that I would send word to Star Fleet of their "gracious" move. However, I do prepare for an attack and have torpedoes ready to fire at a plasma ejection of the warp coil in efforts to create a diversion of plasma fire in space, notifying the tactician to try and place that plasma between us and the two decloaking vessels in hopes to create better odds.

Once I have all the plans laid out I then offer my bargain to the Klingons. Should they say no, we then eject the plasma, ignite it and then fire on the Klingon vessel's weapons system in hopes of disarming them, then we turn and face the remaining vessels and order a stand down or they will be fired upon and destroyed.

Reeves

07-26-2009, 12:23 PM

I would run in to help the miners, disable the lead klingons weapons, wait for the other klingons to withdraw or cloak and transport the miners and possibly their cargo abord.

If the klingons do not withdraw or cloak i would risk lowering my shields to transport the crew ONLY (it would take too long to get the crew and cargo!)

Reeves

07-26-2009, 12:25 PM

Sinson

07-26-2009, 12:48 PM

saber51

07-26-2009, 12:52 PM

This really isnt a tough call,, stay with the convoy this could be a ploy to draw you away.
contact starfleet and any nearby ships for assistance
contact klingons and try to nagotiate with them for the ships return to federation space this also lets them know that federation is aware of the occurance which helps limit their reaction
the captin may loose his ship but it may be possible to work out a release for him and his crew.

wanobi22

07-26-2009, 02:03 PM

Capt.Sundarian

07-26-2009, 02:50 PM

Personally, I have no desire to see anyone needlessly die, but neither me nor the UFP have any room for traitors; LET ME EXPLAIN, by being billigerent to me you direspect me in front of my crew, by pursuing your greed you violate the agreements brought forth by the Federation to more quickly advance peace, then you enter into the KLINGON SPACE to pursue said greed, risking war with your treasonous attitude. FORGET THE SHIP FOR ONE MINUTE, lets focus on the galaxy, by presumably ones decision, he endangers ALL OF US, what we built together, with a race of people who do not back down even when outmatched. My home your home gone all because he wanted currency that doesn't matter once they reenter Fed space. Send a wave to all cloaked and decloaked Klingon ships as well as the convoy, ordering all to sit and watch as I carry out my duty to execute the entire crew by firing on said mining ship, gaining the clear message that I am in charge, per orders of Starfleet, we are a PEACEKEEPING ARMADA, by executing the captain and his crew I just staved off the war one more day, and proved to the Klingons no doubt spying that we are not going to backdown from our ideals.

walltar

07-26-2009, 03:28 PM

I would leave miners to their fate because i cant save everybody and if i leve i voud put every ship in convoy at danger and there are more people in that convoy that is in this one mining ship. If they cant follow orders they should never been allowed on ship. Oh and i dont like miners :D

Arch

07-26-2009, 04:11 PM

This week's scenario is inspired by Captain.Thorne. Good luck!

In this situation, I would analyze the resources. Taking out the Klingon ships vs. losing the ships in the convoy. If the value of the mining ships in the convoy outweigh the value of the Klingon ships I would protect the convoy. However, if the value of the Klingon ships were greater I would take them out. Wars are won and loss because of resources.

DMark34

07-26-2009, 07:16 PM

Due to the rapid growth of starship construction in StarFleet, resources required to manufacture these ships are kept in high demand. Your mission is to escort mining vessels along the neutral zone. A disgruntled captain has demanded that you protect his ship on a high-risk, high-reward mining mission into Klingon space. You refuse and elaborate what your mission is, and how it is best exercised. The captain belligerently heads off to Klingon territory anyway. Before the ship can get too far, a Klingon Korok ship encounters the mining vessel, and two Brel class ships decloak closely behind the Korok. The mining vessel is hopelessly defenseless. Your brand new Excalibur class would give the Klingons a run for their money.

Do you leave the convoy you're protecting to save the mining vessel, or do you leave the innocent miners surrounded by Klingon warships to die, just because their captain couldn't follow orders?

Though I think the scenario is interesting, I doubt it would have truly occurred. Since the mining ships are under the Starfleet Captain's authority, any deviation or attempt to deviate from the main orders of Starfleet Command or its presiding commanders (namely me) by one of the other captains is a criminal offense. I would have to assume 2 things:

1. That any venture into enemy territory would allow the enemy to take anything valuable from the ship (the resources, able crewmen, information, etc.) as well as the ship itself.

2. Any such venture would also place all other ships, cargo, and personnel in the convoy (mine included) in jeopardy.

After warning the captain that I will not allow him to leave the convoy and will use any means necessary to preventing him from doing so, I have my ship disable the vessel if it attempts to enter the neutral zone, arrest the ship's captain (as well as any crew that supported him) on charges of refusal to comply with direct Starfleet orders and endangering operations of interest to the Federation (for starters), and tow the ship until it could move on its own under the command of another who wouldn't risk every one and everything else.

However, for the sake of discussion, it is the mining vessel's decision to enter Klingon territory in a time of war, therefore they must assume the risks on their own, and I would utter those words to the captain of that vessel. As has been stated by a great Vulcan officer and diplomat, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". I stay with the convoy. Since Klingons don't generally negotiate in times of peace, I doubt they would do so in times of war, so I hate to say so but that captain just led his crew to their doom.

Telaura

07-26-2009, 08:32 PM

Before I answer this question, I wish to point out that after reading the vast majority of the replies thus far, three very important factors, have not been properly addressed.

1) The question does not state weather the mining vessel is a Federation vessel. I am going to assume that it is NOT a Federation ship, because of two reasons: A) the ship deviated from its mission, and B) the captain was interested in a reward. These tell me the ship was not under the jurisdiction of the Federation, and thus no other command person (the captain of the escort ship) has any sway over what the mining captain decides to do.

2) The question states the mining vessel entered Klingon space. Under Chancellor Martok, the Federation and the Klingon Empire have reinstated their peace treaty, so why do we assume that Klingon space is hostile territory? The Korok-class ship is a destroyer, sure, but there is also a tanker version of the ship (see ENT: "Marauders."). B'rel-class ships are typically used as escorts and scout ships, so I do believe it is safe to say that the Klingon ships encountered were not a hostile force. Perhaps flexing muscles, wondering who is in their territory and why.

3) The question states that my escort mission is along the Neutral Zone. A Federation captain would never pull off an escort assignment along the Neutral Zone. All protective measures must be in place if you're going to be in that region of space, especially if you're escorting materials with high value.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

My missions is to escort the fleet, not to handle angry, renegade captains. While it is regrettable that the outcome of the miner's incursion into Klingon territory would most likely end in loss of life, my duty is to the convoy. As a Starfleet Captain, I would naturally take every course of action I could that did not interfere with my mission.

Attempting to reason further with the captain of the mining vessel, pointing out that he/she is grossly outnumbered and outgunned, in an attempt to save the lives of those onboard. Contacting the Klingons may also be an option. If the Klingons are hostile, trying to talk them out of destroying an honorless and defenseless target will be worth effort. While there's nothing a Starfleet captain can say or do to prevent the Klingons from destroying the mining freighter, throwing the Klingon honor system in their face may prove helpful. If the Klingons are not hostile, informing them of the mining freighters status would probably be the best course of action.

In any case, I would not break off my escort assignment. Protecting those freighters is my top priority. I would attempt to negotiate with the freighter captain and the Klingons. If successful, I continue on my mission and report the incident to Starfleet after the mission is complete. If unsuccessful (which is doubtful), I would notify Starfleet Command immediately and advise them of the situation. Case closed.

WinterPark1701

07-26-2009, 11:16 PM

Due to the rapid growth of starship construction in StarFleet, resources required to manufacture these ships are kept in high demand. Your mission is to escort mining vessels along the neutral zone. A disgruntled captain has demanded that you protect his ship on a high-risk, high-reward mining mission into Klingon space. You refuse and elaborate what your mission is, and how it is best excercised. The captain belligerently heads off to Klingon territory anyway. Before the ship can get too far, a Klingon Korok ship encounters the mining vessel, and two Brel class ships decloak closely behind the Korok. The mining vessel is hopelessly defenseless. Your brand new Excalibur class would give the Klingons a run for their money.

Do you leave the convoy you're protecting to save the mining vessel, or do you leave the innocent miners surrounded by Klingon warships to die, just because their captain couldn't follow orders?

All Hands to battle stations! This is Captain Tak'ta of the federation starship Pegasus, stand down immediately or you will be fired apon. (Of course, they don't) Helm, Set course at high warp, wait until the last second to drop us out of warp, Engineering divert auxiliary power to the weapons, Tactical set all weapons for volly fire on the lead war-bird, target their engines. Try to put us between the attacking ships and the mining and keep troughs weapons firing regardless of what else happens, we should be able to fight off the Kligons, two old B'rel Class ships only bring 4 disruptors and 2 torpedo laucnhers to the battle, all in all light fire power but they're quick however waiting to the last second to drop out of warp and the volly shot of all our weapons should disable the first ship allowing us to limit it to a 1 on 1 fight with a much older ship. But if we can't we'll set up an Antimatter Spread (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Antimatter_spread) to cover the retreat of the civilian ship.

The klignons just might think twice before attacking federation ships again, they tend to get bolder and bolder until some one stands up to them, if not one checked them here then the next time it would just be deeped in Feddy space.

alexius

07-26-2009, 11:18 PM

Crossing the neutral zone is an act of war
Engaging Klingon vessels in battle in their space is also an act of war

If I was to do things by the book, Saving the mining freighter with phasers blazing is not an option. we can't drag the Federation into a war because of one person's greed. I would send a message to the Klingons explaining that the Captain was acting against orders and that it would be dishonourable for the crew to die in the name of another man's dishonourable conduct when they don't have the option to refuse his orders. The captain would be left to the Klingons unless I was feeling particularly persuasive. The ship would hopefully accompany the crew.

Alternatively. Bearing in mind that the Klingons are waging war on two fronts already, they can hardly afford to open a third against an enemy like the federation. So dipping across the border giving some ****** noses, saving the crew, placing the captain under arrest and returning to the convoy is possible. I would make lifelong enemies with the of those vessels for letting them live an not killing them in battle. BUT it is possible that this is all a ploy to capture all the mining vessels.

So I'll stick to my first instinct.

Halizar

07-27-2009, 01:04 AM

1. Klingons never just talk thing through so we can say that no navigation #%$^up will work and and kind of sensible dialog would fail, so talking is out.
2. This plan would depend on one thing. A big boom.
THE PLAN
Seeing as the Klingons do not appear to know about the convoy I would tell them to power down to reduce ship Signatures. I would then hail the mining ship captain ( who is neck deep in #$%* from me and the Klingons ) and tell him to get a scan of the Korok class ship ( Klingon Deuterium Tanker ) . If all goes well it will have a good supply deuterium. I would tell the mining ship captain to set a collision course with the Korok and to drop shields when I come out of warp. The Klingon Korok captain would undoubtedly try to revers course taking it even closer to the already close B'rel class (Bird of Prey). Now for the finish.
I have beamed the crew aboard and making a 180 to get the #%%* out of dodge. Just before I go to warp 9.5 I give the Korok a full spread of photon torpedoes from my trusty aft launchers to damage or take its shields down. If all went well the Klingons all made fudge before they went boom and the captain of the mining ship is in the brig to awate court marshal.

Now. If the Korok was empty I would hail the captain of the mining ship and tell him to Launch escape pods best speed to Federation space. Then I would get on subspace to any near Federation ship to help serch for survivors. I would not risk the convoy to go to a fight that would end with me/crew and possibly the convoy up in smoke. My face would be so red ;p.

malikmay

07-27-2009, 01:12 AM

I would have to order my convoy to safer space an then head towards the klingon sand try to negotiate with them telling them that there is no honour in destroying a fed mining ship and that if they did this would be an act of war. But if they didnt pull away from the shiop i would come out of warp drive near to them and then disable there wepons and engines with a few phaser blasts so they can do nothing to stop the mining vessel and my ship from regoning the convoy in fed sace.

easy ;)

lnquisitor

07-27-2009, 02:05 AM

I would issue a direct challenge to the commander of the Krok ship. Engage it and give the mining ship a chance to retreat. I would also make safe passage of the mining ships a requirement of the dual regardless of the outcome.

burgee236

07-27-2009, 03:11 AM

As much as it would pain me to do so, I would have to stay with the convoy. For all I know, there are several other warbards waiting in cloak to attack the convoy if/when I run off to save the one ship. In this case the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Warbards? did you mean Warbirds?
If so, why would ANY Romulan ships be involved with Klingon activity like that?

[Just for info, I don't think the miner actually disobeyed orders by goiung into Klingon territory, as there was no mention of him being ordered not to]

As for what I'd do:

I would take the convoy on a little detour so as to position them just outside of the Kliingon's sensor range, unless we were already within it, in which case, I would leave them where they were. I would the n hail the Klingons and inform them that opening fire on a Federation citizen would have rather nasty repercussions, and If they are there due to him violating their borders (which they may not mind for civilian miners) then they are to inform me and I will take the captain into custody. If they continue to show signs of aggression then I will move toward them, while staying ready to return to the convoy at maximum warp should there be any trouble there. If the Klingons have not withdrawn by the time I reach them, I will instruct them in no uncertain terms, that the mining vessel is a federation ship and firing on it would be very unhealthy for them. If at any point they open/opened fire on the mining ship, I order them to step down, then if no responce after a few seconds, move in to disable their weapon systems. If they do not fire on the mining ship, them I will simply engage the tractor beam and tow it away. If any conflict situation took a turn for the worse (ie. other Klingons decloaking and engaging), then the crew and captain of the miner would be beamed aboard (if they have shields that are still up, a few torpedoes will disable them) and we would return to the convoy. If the Klingons were disabled, then the mining ship would be towed back to the convoy. Once back at the convoy, either towing the mining ship or with it's crew on board, we would proceed as planned, and only after that would I take the ship/crew to the nearest starbase. (The miner would be towed the whole way so as to avoid escape)
If through any of this, the convoy came under attack, as many of the crew from the mining ship would be beamed aboard, but only while the ship was turned round to head back to the convoy, we would not wait to get them out, the priority is the convoy's safety.

I think I've covered every possible event there...

simonpecker

07-27-2009, 03:57 AM

this is simple, tell the mining ships to come with you to rescue the fools, the klingons will think twice about taking on a mining ship convoy that is protected by an Excalibur-class

Ridgelon

07-27-2009, 05:16 AM

Stay with the convoy. Its just social Darwinism, the captain is to stupid to follow orders and cross into enemy space he deserves to die or what ever better fate the Klingons give him. His crew should have stepped up and relieved him of command for being stupid.

Sunleaper

07-27-2009, 05:25 AM

USS Longbow Bridge flight recorder logs: 07-27-2389

Ops: Captain, we are monitoring destress calls from Federation Mining vessel USS Dawn's Venture, they are transmitting in the clear on all channels.

CO: Understood Mr. Presman, begin long range active sensor sweeps of the sector please. Helm hold your course.

Conn: Aye Sir, holding course.

Ex.O.: May I remind the Captain, Starfleet general orders require a responce to all destress calls...

CO.: Commander, I am well aware of both Starfleet regulations and the concerned interstellar laws. Make a note in the ships logs as of this date and time, Captain Seroys of USS Dawn's Venture, chose to ignore recommendations from this command and proceed into Klingon space without escort. We are unable to abandon the convoy to the risk of a single ship and provoke an interstellar incedent when relations with the Klingons are already strained.
Mr. Desoto, Send to USS Dawn's Venture. "Advise you dump your cargo and return to Federation Space at best possible speed, take no aggressive actions towards the Klingons as they will see no honor in attacking a weak opponent."

AncientLegacy

07-27-2009, 05:36 AM

I would Maximum warp to the mining ship and fire a barrage of phasers on it. Destroying the engines.
I would then hail the klingons and tell them that it is an escaped prisoner and thank them for stopping the ship.
Beam the crew and captain aboard, destroy the mining vessel and hightail it back to the larger convoy.

and problem solved.

adonils

07-27-2009, 06:55 AM

I would have the convoy follow me after the rogue mining vessel (but keep their distance). The Klingons if anything should either target me or the stray mining vessel. Beam the crew off the ship and get the heck outta there, defending myself and the convoy if necessary. Then place the Captain of the rogue mining ship in custody.

If there were other ships lying in wait, they could ambush the convoy anyway (and I would then be outnumbered anyway). So I would proceed to rescue the ship (while at the sametime remaining in range of the remainder of the convoy if trouble should head their way).

pittyh

07-27-2009, 07:04 AM

I would wait till the klingons open fire on the mining vessel, approach while they are occupied, bring the shields down on both klingon vessels and teleport boarding crews on each one to secure the bridges, i would then tow both klingon vessels back to starfleet for reverse engineering.

Levry

07-27-2009, 08:07 AM

As a starfleet officer I would arrest the captain for intent to steal resources that he has no permission, permits or authority to do so. But that wasn't part of the scenario..... :)

I would set a course to intercept the mining ship and do your best to get the kingons to agree to hand the captain over for breaking about 6 federation laws. Should the Klingon's refuse, the mining capt, may have to face a klingon court for theft in exchange for the rest of his crews safety.

WonderboyCoz

07-27-2009, 08:17 AM

1)Well, any Starfleet captain worth his salt would know that the best way to deal with klingons is to show them you've got teeth, not some toothless grishnar cat trying to frighten them with its roar. A full spread of tropedoes fired at the klingons should show them you are ready and willing to fight, meanwhile I order my helmsman to place me directly between the klingons and the mining vessel, they would be foolish to attack, and with my ship in the way of their weapons fire and ready to destroy any incoming torpedoes the mining vessel is protected long enough to beam the entire crew and its cargo aboard.

2)While I deal with this problem, I have also left several shuttles behind to aid in defense of the convoy until I can return with ship power left low so not to attract attention, I dont believe in a no-win scenario.

This , I believe would ensure that the convoy is well protected form any cloaked vessels planning an attack while I am occupied long enough to pick up the mining ships crew and cargo and return to the convoy.

swiftomnium

07-27-2009, 08:50 AM

As long as the other mining vessels are not in any danger, I would come to the rescue. Maybe a good lesson for the captain!

cgcatcher

07-27-2009, 09:05 AM

I would have to stay with the convoy while trying to talk to the Klingons trying to save him. If that fails let him be destroyed. No need to risk your tail on someone who fails to follow direct orders anyways.

Tokoth

07-27-2009, 09:46 AM

I would never have let it get to that point. If the captain is under orders to remain with the convoy, and furthermore is straying into Klingon territory, I would target his engines with a low yield burst of phaser fire and take him under tow to the nearest base for charges. He never would have been in the situation to begin with, had I been the convoy leader.

Furthermore, I would be justified in my course of action because the reckless actions of the mining vessel captain endangered the entire convoy. I wouldn't expect a public medal for the action, but I wouldn't face much of anything in discipline either.

belljack95

07-27-2009, 09:48 AM

As Captain, my first thought is Why were three Klingon ships that close to the border in this sector? Could it be they were they planning an ambush of the convoy and the disobedient mining captain's actions forced them to act too quickly?

I would order the remaining ships in the convoy to slow down and then maneuver to the edge of the border and conduct a long range scan of the area while open hailing frequencies to the Klingons and the minimg ship. I would "thank" the Klingon commander for finding the lost mining ship that had strayed from the convoy I was escorting. Since I could not cross over without causing an incident, could the Klingons escort the mining ship back to the border?

If they would not do that I would then remind them there is no honor in attacking an unharmed ship or crew and would they let the ship go and come back to the border on its own so that I could guide it back into the convoy?

If that failed, then the next thing is to remind the Klingon commander they are now responsible for the safety of the mining ship and crew and ask what they would want for the release of the ship and/or crew. If we could not agree upon a satisfactory outcome then I will let the Klingon commander know I will let our diplomatic envoys know so that proceedings can begin to gather the release of the crew and ship. Then I would continue with my mission of escorting the convoy and keep long range senors going to track what happens for as long as possible and inform Starfleet of the details.

Delta4Elite2

07-27-2009, 09:58 AM

Well If the Klingons fire it's war. So I'd tell them that then if they don't "ESCORT" the mining ship or allow me to escort them back. I'll follow wichever corse of action allows me to blow stuff up.:D:D

Tezzle

07-27-2009, 10:43 AM

Well, that captain can screw himself over however he likes, but he's got a whole crew to be responsible for. First and foremost I'd try to explain the situation to the Klingons, say (albeit in a far more formal tone than what I'm about to say) "This man is an idiot and will be dealt with, and having a fight over this single Captain's rash actions is not in either of our interests." They probably wouldn't believe me. I'd need to show them he has disobeyed orders, so I'd fire on his ship in an attempt to disable it, and tow his insubordinate butt back into Federation space.

However, if they just won't listen to reason, which isn't uncommon for a warrior race who doesn't much care for the Federation, I'd certainly fight back if things got violent.

CanQua

07-27-2009, 11:05 AM

I'd hail the Klingon's and inform them that the commander of the vessel was mentally impaired and it would prove such to leave a convoy guarded by me to venture into the neutral zone. There can be no honor in a battle with an unarmed mentally impaired captain. If they would be so kind as to disable his engines and use a tractor beam to nudge him into federation space, we'll be back by in a few weeks to pick him up.

That's assuming this poorly thought out scenario would happen. In all reality, we're already under war. They'd have destroyed the craft before my sensors read them dropping from cloak. Or better yet I'd have disabled his craft and charged him with treason before he had the chance.

Daigith

07-27-2009, 11:08 AM

Simple really, you have the captain put the freighter into the magnetic pole of the closest planet and power down. if all is well the magnetic pole of the planet would sheild the ship from sensors. then engage the klingons in glorious battle!

JadenStriker

07-27-2009, 11:59 AM

The Klingons in this age are hostile against the Federation. Talking will be pointless. You are already at war with the Klingons. Even with a stronge ship, the klingons are known to put up a good fight and "die with honor!" this area of space has been rip with war over resources. You are also entering Klingon space during that time of war against them, so they will be very angry, and will not listen to any deplomacy, because from their point of view, you are trespassing on their terratory to steal their resources. They have ever intent to kill you, and will be acting on the thoughts of having "every right" to kill you.

Best way to deal with this is to deal with this is to go in guns blazing, but not without some planning. The attack on the mining ship could be a trap, to lure you away from the convoy you are protecting, but at the same time, having a Korok class with 2 Brel class decloak along side, may also mean that they don't know you are there.

Before running off to the fight, launch to shuttles from your ship. Have the shuttle crews armed with a set of 8 people, 2 pilots with fighting experiance, and 6 space walkers armed with heavy photo launchers, and land 1 shuttle on the top side of the ship you are suppost to protect, and another on the bottom side. Launch 2 life pods setup with 6 of the same armed space walkers and land them much the same way, either on another ship or on the back side, while the shuddles take the front. Use them as support fire, if the attack on the mining ship is a lure to bait you away.

Have another 2 shuttles ready for lunch, prepped with 5 dumb fire photon torpedos. Strait shot, no targetting, the pilots have to aim their shuttles strait at the ships. This way you can use more powerful photon torpedos that are a great deal smaller in size, because they have no need for navigations systems, targeting computers, or manovering hardware.

Have 4 diffren lifeboats setup as quick lunch bombs. 2 on the top side of the ship, 2 on the bottom side.

Turn the angle of the ship so that when you warp in, your top side will face one of the attacking ships, and the bottoms side faces the others.

Order your Tactical officer to target their weapons system, and to fire as soon as you drop out of warp, and to contune firing until the enemies weapons systems are disabled, then to disable their engines, then disable their communications. Make it where they can't fight, can't move, and can't speak. For the klingons, this would be very insulting and dishonorable.

Goto warp, and come out right in between the klingon ships, launching the shuttles and the lifeboat bombs, and opening fire until the klingons are disabled. Using your main ship to disable the first 2 and having the shuttles start on the 3rd one, while you move around to finish the 3rd one. Have the pair of shuttles land, and while they land, launch another 2 shuttles to keep the disabled klingon ships disabled. If the mining ship needs repair, beam an engineering crew, and launch 2 life pods each with supplies and 3 space walkers, 2 heavy armed, 1 engineer for repair, and have those lifepods land on the surface of the mining ship, and warp back to the convoy to check on them, with weapons ready to fight of an ambush.

If there is no ambush, stick around for 5 minutes, then warp back to the mining ship, to check up on them. Make sure the mining ship has enougyh repaired to warp out of there. Recall the 2 shuttles you left behind to keep the klingons disabled, them shoot all 3 klingon ships a couple times, and beam cannasters of sleeping gas into their ships, waiting for them to goto sleep, and beam their sleeping bodies into the brig. transport any key componants from the klingon ship that will be useful, and then finish what is left of them off.

At least, that is the extreme you could goto, if we are talking about a real, "in a movie or in a TV series" Excalibur class starship.

For the expected in game play, the most you could do is to go in at warp speed, and land at the outside of the attacking klingons, and keep firing until they give up, hopefully targetting their weapons systems, then their engins, then beam a small repair crew on the mining ship, and then warp back to the convoy to see if they are alright. wait for 5 minutes, warp back to the attack area to check on the mining ship, and make a couple pop shots on the klingon ships, to make sure their weapons and engiens stay disabled, then warp back to the convoy again to make sure they stay ok.

Hopefully by then, the mining ship will have enough time to bug out, and enough since to bug out. Have to add that "enough since to bug out" part, because we would be talking about NPC's now wouldn't we. and anyone who has played MMO's before, knows how stupid, NPC's can be.

capt_will

07-27-2009, 12:24 PM

This week's scenario is inspired by Captain.Thorne. Good luck!

1.hail the klingons and let them know that you are on a rescue mission to recover the shiping vessel.
2.beam the minningg vessels crew aboard my ship.
3.let th klingons know that there is 2 brel vessel behind him
4.leave 4 shuttle craft with the convoy make sure the suttles are with fire power set course for the minng vessel tractor beam it because the klingons are going to be worry about the brell put sheilds around the mining vessl warp back to convoy

harden007

07-27-2009, 12:31 PM

I would destroy the PetaQs for their insolence, and any Federation ships willing to make a rescue. :D

baileyw75

07-27-2009, 01:02 PM

What Would James Kirk Do? (WWJKD)

Flex your muscles and scare off the Klingons. Disable the thrusters of the mining vessel with a well placed phaser beam and tow it behind you as you escort the rest of the mining vessels to the mines.

jransom

07-27-2009, 01:03 PM

1. Fire and destroy the mining vessels engines.
2. Send a message to the Klingons that you are bringing this rogue vessel to starfleet to face justice.
3. If the Klingons fight, defeat them.
4. Tow the mining vessel to Starbase.
5. Put the captain on trial for endangering his crew.

ChrisBrehe

07-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Ask Q for a favour :D

Plan B: Ask the Klingons whether they wish to end their lives over a mining freighter when there's still grander battles to be fought elsewhere. Even a Klingon could see the logic in that question.

Q you've got to be kidding that god-wanna-be would rather be a pain in the neck than help you plan B has potential though sometimes one must think like a Klingon to beat a Klingon in addition hand that :mad:flunky:mad: of a Captain over to the Klingons a gesture of good faith in hopes that it will help mend the crumbling alliance.

Wolvan

07-27-2009, 02:14 PM

Due to the rapid growth of starship construction in StarFleet, resources required to manufacture these ships are kept in high demand. Your mission is to escort mining vessels along the neutral zone. A disgruntled captain has demanded that you protect his ship on a high-risk, high-reward mining mission into Klingon space. You refuse and elaborate what your mission is, and how it is best excercised. The captain belligerently heads off to Klingon territory anyway. Before the ship can get too far, a Klingon Korok ship encounters the mining vessel, and two Brel class ships decloak closely behind the Korok. The mining vessel is hopelessly defenseless. Your brand new Excalibur class would give the Klingons a run for their money.
Do you leave the convoy you're protecting to save the mining vessel, or do you leave the innocent miners surrounded by Klingon warships to die, just because their captain couldn't follow orders?

As a Starfleet Officer it is my duty to protect the lives of the Federation civilians in the convoy that I have been ordered to escort, my responsibilities are then to the safety of my crew, and finally my ship.

Since the Klingon ships intercepted the mining vessel fairly quickly, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that this is a task force with orders to make sure that no Federation vessels cross into Klingon territory. As such, no harm should come to the crew or captain, especially since it is an unarmed mining vessel unable to defend himself... it would not be honourable to destroy it.

With that in mind, I would open a channel with the lead Klingon ship and explain the situation in an honest, yet brief manner. The captain and ship have traveled into Klingon space without their express consent and is in violation of the Federation/Klingon treaty. If the ship and crew are allowed to return to the Neutral Zone and into my custody, they will be charged under Federation law.

If that is not a satisfactory outcome for the Klingons, then I would remind them that the crew are Federation citizens and that I do have the means and obligation to protect them from unwarranted aggression. With that in mind, I would offer the vessel in exchange for the crew, which should satisfy Klingon law.

If there were any complaints from the captain of the mining vessel, I would throw him in the brig and tell him that I would let the Klingons deal with him next time.

StarTrekNGFan

07-27-2009, 02:35 PM

SenatorPardek

07-27-2009, 03:42 PM

First things first, hail the Klingons and advise them of the situation. Hopefully, they will not see the honor in destroying an empty, unarmed mining vessel. Second give the whole federation citizens have the protection of starfleet speach regardless of how crappy a captain they have.

As a last resort I would have to leave the mining vessels to take care of the prodical one. However, I look forward to siting in the front row at his court martial/hearing where he is stripped of his command, and having him wash any disrupter burns off of my beautiful new ship.

SenatorPardek

07-27-2009, 03:43 PM

Step One: Stay Put.
Step Two: Call For Back Up.
Step Three: Then Enter The Neutral Zone With Armed Ships And Retrieve The Ship.

Any Excuses on How This Wouldn't Work? Well Where would the Back Up Ships come from?: A Neutral Zone Outpost.
Thank you for reading my answer.

I like it, but whats stopping the klingons from destroying the ships while you wait for backup?

Amonchris

07-27-2009, 03:53 PM

The Klingons would most likely assume any starship entering thier space would be an act of war. I would try to hail the attacking Klingons but if that didnt work i would stay on my side of the border. The bulk of the convoy needs protection more than one rouge vessel.

Kheren

07-27-2009, 04:09 PM

Step One: Stay Put.
Step Two: Call For Back Up.
Step Three: Then Enter The Neutral Zone With Armed Ships And Retrieve The Ship.

Any Excuses on How This Wouldn't Work? Well Where would the Back Up Ships come from?: A Neutral Zone Outpost.
Thank you for reading my answer.

Well since you ask:

Step one: the Klingons destroy the idiot's rogue ship
Step two: the Klingons learn from you of an invasion force coming
Step three: congratulations, you started an interstellar war

macer

07-27-2009, 04:53 PM

I would suddenly accelerated to warp 9 directly toward the Klingon ships. Because the enemy is only equipped with light speed sensors, they had no way of knowing that my ship had moved until it was too late. When the light from the newly-moved ship reached the Klingon ship's sensors, the light from its previous position was still arriving, so the Klingon saw two of my ship. Even if they had figured out that the new image was the genuine one in time, it would have been too late, as my ship opened fire as soon as it dropped out of warp, and the Klingon ships had no time to maneuver out of the way before the phasers and photon torpedoes hit. The Klingon ships were destroyed. AKA the Picard Maneuver.

I would then beam the Capitan directly to the Brig and inform the first officer to take command of the ship and immediately maneuver back to federation space. Once in federation space I would personally go over to inspect the well being and safety of the ladie....err fellow star fleet personnel.

peace
macer

Tostig

07-27-2009, 05:41 PM

I would advise the captain of the mining vessel to rejoin the convoy at top warp speed. I would try to convince the klingons that the ship had suffered a glitch in their guidance system. If this failed, I would defend the ship and convoy should the klingons cross into federation space and open fire.

codeflyer

07-27-2009, 07:31 PM

Or Maybe;

Keep klingons in chat while a FED ship gets closer to beam you aboard. Then after last person leaves start the Auto Destruct sequence. If all else fails use Emergency PODS to escape ship and head for nuetral space.

But the problem is What is a Mining ship doing in Klingon space? Is it possible it could be a Klingon mining ship parading itself for a Federation ship for to be used for spying. This Scenario raises more logical questions than answers.

Good one Spock

MikeRice1983

07-27-2009, 07:33 PM

Hate to bum you out bro, but there is slight flaw with your scenario...the Excalibur-class doesn't get put into service until 2391...the current year is 2390. The scenario itself is very good.

wanobi22

07-27-2009, 08:09 PM

Hate to bum you out bro, but there is slight flaw with your scenario...the Excalibur-class doesn't get put into service until 2391...the current year is 2390. The scenario itself is very good.

There was no specified date in the scenario, now was there? :)

Its a generic scenario. There was no date specified, the rogue mining vessel was not specified as starfleet or civilian (but was intended to be civilian, again I apologize for not specifying) and the reasoning for choosing the Excalibur class was because of its designed role. It's not a war vessel specifically. I read in its introductory description on the main page that it would be mostly utilized for transporting various (and large amounts of) cargo, but had the ability to handle itself in combat situations, as well as in other area's that starfleet would need to deploy. Escort? an Excalibur class is likely not the best of options. That is something that I, personally would throw in a destroyer type vessel-- something fully capable of taking out multiple ships with relative ease. The Excalibur, while capable, is not the ideal escort ship.

Excalibur reference click HERE (http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/excalibur)

In essence, from what I interpreted, it's more of a support craft that would do well with a Task Force but has the capability of holding its own. And thats why I chose it. It's not over-specialized.

Over specialize, and you breed in weakness.

To clarify on the mining vessel, I would like to elaborate that NO it is not a starfleet vessel. and is not necessarily bound to starfleet code. as nero says. "We stand apart."

Anyone put two and two together, yet? Mining Ship? Stands apart? That was kind of the crux of my scenario.

And before I burn myself out (its been a long day), I'll end this with a positive, and genuine 'Thank You' for complimenting the scenario as it is. Even though it's not so clear. Just have to... as someone told me "read between the lines"

seawulf

07-27-2009, 08:14 PM

I would open a channel to the disobedient captain, and tell him "I told you so".

Mojo

07-27-2009, 09:11 PM

Under no circumstances would you be permitted to venture into Klingon space to perform the rescue. TO do so would risk far more than your ship or convoy, as it would be (rightly) construed as an act of war.

However, there are other options.

The safety of the convy is paramount, but you want to save the lone ship from the klingons. Assuming you're going to risk treaty violation and interstellar war, my solution would be to take the convoy with me to the rescue.

If the Klingons had sufficient ships to attack the convoy, they could have done it even if one the ship hadn't wandered off; a little thing like borders wouldn't deter a klingon captain overmuch. The only way to ensure the survival of the whole convoy is to keep it with you.

However, bringing the whole convoy into klingon space gives them a political leg to stand on, and the situation could be leveraged against the Federation.

07-27-2009, 10:59 PM

hehe i know this whould sound stupid but bring the convoy with you lol.

no one said you couldnt bring them along. plus it whould be more for the klingons to shoot at if a fire fight broke out.

cocoa-jin

07-28-2009, 12:28 AM

I would have disabled the vessel the minute it pulled away from the convoy in the direction of Klingon territory.

Back to the scenerio...I would fire on the minning vessel and disable it. The Klingons would think there was something valuable and would actually try and protect it. I'd make a pass or two beaming crew aboard...the captain would be the last one...if possible.

I'd hope that my shields would hold long enough for me to warp out and that I'd have enough power to repel any tractor beams used during the fight. If it could be pulled off, I'd fire an aft torpedo tube on the way out to destroy the frieghter.

weemer

07-28-2009, 02:23 AM

negotiate with klingons.
explain that the ships captain is disobaying orders and will be punished
Move my ship in to transporter range
beam the captain into space (as punishment)
order the ship back into the convoy.
if ship doesnt come back fire on them to let them know your not messing about
if they staill domt obay then fire on them
untill either they obay of they come back
klingons will think your a nutter
starfleet will want to kick you out
so set course for marquee and join them in a nice shiny starship killing everyone on board that dont like the idea!

Powerke

07-28-2009, 02:26 AM

I wonder who's bright idea it was to have a mining ship convoy flying close
to the neutral zone.

The risk of all out stellar war is very great in this scenario....so a cautious aproach is needed.

As a Starship captain..i would act in a way the Klinglons would see as the thing they would do.
Fly in to the neutral zone and fire at the dissobedient miningship.
Targeting engines other vital parts of the ship.
Then hail the Klinglons ...saying that this captain (of the miningship) is now wanted by the
Federations for crimes with the intent of starting a war.

The Captain must be punished accordingly and has to be made an example so other captains
will learn to respect Klingon space.

If the Klingons refuse to let the ship go ....ask them to release the rest of the crew ...as for they
were only folowing orders...but leave the ship and its captain in Klingon hands.

Klingons are not easy to negotiate with .....but they have at least honor.
If all this fails ....send a formal apology and retreat your ship from the neutral zone.
leaving the miningship in the Neutral zone.

Send a formal complaint to the Klingon High Command and send one to Starfleet HQ
No civilian vessel should be this close to the Neutral zone ....and the person who gave this orders
should be sanctioned.

Set a course .....euh .....that away (point finger to somewhere random) .....engage

Kheren

07-28-2009, 03:14 AM

To clarify on the mining vessel, I would like to elaborate that NO it is not a starfleet vessel. and is not necessarily bound to starfleet code. as nero says. "We stand apart."

I'm sorry Sir but that is exactly the basic flaw of the whole scenario.

First of, the citation from Nero is invalid: it refers to Romulan policy, not Federation policy.

Second: Your assessment would be valid only for pre-Federation Starfleet wich at the time did not have any authority over the Space Cargo Authority. That was over 200 years before your Excalibur-time scenario. Therefore we have:

Third: In UFP era, Starfleet is responsible for the safety of the Federation and it's citizens. Any action from within or without threatening that safety falls automatically under Starfleet's authority.

Fourth: Any ship part of a convoy under military escort is bound from the start by the military authority. This is a procedure that goes back as far as the navy of Antique Sumeria.

Fifth; Not even the best civilian ship can match even the smallest Starfleet starship in power, speed, defensive and offensive capabilities, sensor efficiency and crew quality... no more than the best supertanker today can stand to a coast guard destroyer.

Do not make the mistake to assume that mining ships are huge monster-superships able to destroy a fleet of military vessels in minutes as in the latest movie. Nero's ship was enhanced with Borg technology and from nearly 200 years in the future; it was like an atomic aircraft carrier with alien technology meeting a fleet of Spanish Galleons. Here you are talking of standard ships of the same era.

Therefore, in all logical instances, the mining ship would have been disabled well before it would ever had a chance to attempt it's moronic scheme.

Techrat3D

07-28-2009, 03:30 AM

Normally I would let him die, but my Starfleet training would make me do the following:

Hail the Klingons, and ask them not to blow up the ship.
Since the Klingons probably know what has already been spoken to one another, I would not risk lying to them
I would ask them not to kill the crew because their Captain acted very stupidly.
Try to negotiate the release via subspace, but under no circumstance will my ship abandon its post.
If the ship is taken prisoner, then it will be up to the diplomats to resolve this issue. A fight would not resolve anything in this situation.
If the ship is destroyed by the Klingons... C'est la vie.

If nobody likes my decision... tough. ;)

wanobi22

07-28-2009, 09:22 AM

I'm sorry Sir but that is exactly the basic flaw of the whole scenario.

First of, the citation from Nero is invalid: it refers to Romulan policy, not Federation policy.

I wasn't saying it was policy. I as just saying, that the civilian mining ship didn't think it had to follow starfleet code. You are over analyzing this. Just take the scenario for face value. A civilian mining ship went rogue, to go mine for higher grade minerals that could be found on the other side of the fence, or maybe just because they were down right disgruntled. Why? Who the frak knows? Working-class citizens usually have good reasons to get disgruntled and do irrational things.

Second: Your assessment would be valid only for pre-Federation Starfleet wich at the time did not have any authority over the Space Cargo Authority. That was over 200 years before your Excalibur-time scenario. Therefore we have:

Again, you are way over-analyzing.

Third: In UFP era, Starfleet is responsible for the safety of the Federation and it's citizens. Any action from within or without threatening that safety falls automatically under Starfleet's authority.

Fourth: Any ship part of a convoy under military escort is bound from the start by the military authority. This is a procedure that goes back as far as the navy of Antique Sumeria.

Perhaps you don't know about in the Real Life militaries. But not everybody follows rules to the letter, and not everybody follows rules very much. Trust me, I know. I've seen it, and I've done it.

Fifth; Not even the best civilian ship can match even the smallest Starfleet starship in power, speed, defensive and offensive capabilities, sensor efficiency and crew quality... no more than the best supertanker today can stand to a coast guard destroyer.

Do not make the mistake to assume that mining ships are huge monster-superships able to destroy a fleet of military vessels in minutes as in the latest movie. Nero's ship was enhanced with Borg technology and from nearly 200 years in the future; it was like an atomic aircraft carrier with alien technology meeting a fleet of Spanish Galleons. Here you are talking of standard ships of the same era.

Woah woah woah woah woah. This is the biggest jump-to-conclusions if I ever saw one. I never did say the mining vessel was a monster super ship, nor did I say it was able to destroy a fleet of military vessels. If I did, then WhyTF would I bother writing this scenario? If it was anything like Nero's ship, then it would have crushed the Klingon ships with ease. This is not the case. It is a severely defensless ship. Commanded by a disgruntled crew (again, for why? I don't know exactly, but working-class citizens, like I said, usually have good reasons to act irrationally. Perhaps not good reasons, but its understandable why they would act irrational.) and is now in a position where it's either the klingons capture/kill them, or you can read the darn description of the Excalibur class, and find a solution that doesn't involve you firing a single torpedo or phaser beam, and doing your job as a peace keeping starship captain not risking war by just leaving the captain and his crew to their demise, or destroying the klingons.

Therefore, in all logical instances, the mining ship would have been disabled well before it would ever had a chance to attempt it's moronic scheme.

While your information is (surprisingly) accurate, and is a valid argument, it is entirely unnecessary. I would like to see you make a decision to destroy a defenseless, mostly innocent, honest-living mining ship. Making that decision is harder than you would think. Yeah, by destroying it by the time it reaches the neutral zone, would I guess be following some sort of General Order, or even a Special Order, the *human* side of you would likely hesitate, and you would get in this situation where, now the enemy (or whatever you might call this fragile co-existence) is in position to capture/destroy a ship that in your orders, you are responsible for.

And consider the fate of the crew, even those that work deep down in the ship and don't even know whats going on. Male and female sailors, completely oblivious, are then killed. Or captured. And we know what happens to females when they're captured. Jessica Lynch, anyone?

Regaurdless. People, come on, stop over analyzing, and play. It pains me to see people find reasons to not figure out a solution, but instead show their expansive knowledge of Star Trek, such as Starfleet code, Klingon code, Romulan code, and all that. I'm a well-rounded sci-fi fan. I don't specialize in just one area of my favorite sci-fi universes and learn relatively useless knowledge. I mean, there is so much to Star Trek, Star Wars, FarScape, and Battlestar Galactica to know every thing about all of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the intelligence this last poster displayed, however if this were a simulation in the actual game I think he'd play along, and probably not even take a second thought about any of this.

=_=

On the positive side to the excessive analyzing, it is helping me to write my next KM scenario.

Zhivago

07-28-2009, 09:25 AM

Zhivago

07-28-2009, 09:32 AM

Or captured. And we know what happens to females when they're captured. Jessica Lynch, anyone?

Yeah, Jessica Lynch was taken to a hospital and provided much needed care and then OUR government made up a story about it for propaganda purposes because I guess they realized that killing people for their oil was not a good enough reason on its own. Are you saying that the Klingons will take care of the captured and then the Federation will make up stories about them to justify killing more Klingons? Great Scott! This is horrible!

wanobi22

07-28-2009, 09:36 AM

Yeah, Jessica Lynch was taken to a hospital and provided much needed care and then OUR government made up a story about it for propaganda purposes because I guess they realized that killing people for their oil was not a good enough reason on its own. Are you saying that the Klingons will take care of the captured and then the Federation will make up stories about them to justify killing more Klingons? Great Scott! This is horrible!

Now...who determined that it was propaganda?

Zhivago

07-28-2009, 09:42 AM

Now...who determined that it was propaganda?

Well, ok, the story came from 'unnamed' military sources and Lynch herself revealed that they were all bullsh*t. So you could say that it was just a good natured mistake on the part of some people who work in the military. Then again, the executive branch did pay 40 to 50 retired military personal to lie to each and every media network in the U.S. in order to gain support for the latest resource war, so my money is on propaganda. If you want to leave the blinders on, that is your choice. No one can make you see the truth if you prefer to be spoon fed lies.

wanobi22

07-28-2009, 09:50 AM

Well, ok, the story came from 'unnamed' military sources and Lynch herself revealed that they were all bullsh*t. So you could say that it was just a good natured mistake on the part of some people who work in the military. Then again, the executive branch did pay 40 to 50 retired military personal to lie to each and every media network in the U.S. in order to gain support for the latest resource war, so my money is on propaganda. If you want to leave the blinders on, that is your choice. No one can make you see the truth if you prefer to be spoon fed lies.

I'm not saying it's not propaganda. But I'm not going to say it is, either. I was in the Army and they drilled it into our heads in Basic Training-- the Jessica Lynch thing. So since I recently got out, I kinda have to say I never did hear about the propaganda thing. Reguardless on if it was true, or just an exaggurated story, the case remains. I wouldn't risk compromising innocents to whatever fate a race/nation of violent warriors have in store for them. RL or ST.

Zhivago

07-28-2009, 10:09 AM

I'm not saying it's not propaganda. But I'm not going to say it is, either. I was in the Army and they drilled it into our heads in Basic Training-- the Jessica Lynch thing. So since I recently got out, I kinda have to say I never did hear about the propaganda thing. Reguardless on if it was true, or just an exaggurated story, the case remains. I wouldn't risk compromising innocents to whatever fate a race/nation of violent warriors have in store for them. RL or ST.

Good point!

space8798

07-28-2009, 10:53 AM

Due to the fact that the captain is in enemy space there is nothing i can do to help him. If you enter klingon space in an armed vessel and a fleet shows up you didn't know was there they kill you and the mining vessel and then can declare war on the Federation and they will destroy the convoy to.

EricKugota

07-28-2009, 11:06 AM

The salvation of a group of individuals is prevalescent on one.

Winginit

07-28-2009, 12:41 PM

What I might do, possibly against my better judgement, is to cross the Neutral Zone to defend the mining ship. I'm assuming that by now the mining ship would be doing an about face, so that would save me the trouble of having to talk them out of going any further.

If the Klingons decided to start a fight, I'd shoot back without actually destroying them. Just give the mining ship enough time to leave.

If the Klingons backed down, send a priority message to Starfleet asking for orders. If they tell me to continue the mission, ask for back up.

If the Klingons don't back down, disable all of them and tell the convoy to leave the area until given the all clear.

This is all assuming that more ships don't jump the convoy first. Then it's pretty much a matter of holding of the Klingons while the convoy attempts to escape.

Kheren

07-28-2009, 01:26 PM

While your information is (surprisingly) accurate, and is a valid argument, it is entirely unnecessary. I would like to see you make a decision to destroy a defenseless, mostly innocent, honest-living mining ship. Making that decision is harder than you would think. Yeah, by destroying it by the time it reaches the neutral zone, would I guess be following some sort of General Order, or even a Special Order, the *human* side of you would likely hesitate, and you would get in this situation where, now the enemy (or whatever you might call this fragile co-existence) is in position to capture/destroy a ship that in your orders, you are responsible for.

And consider the fate of the crew, even those that work deep down in the ship and don't even know whats going on. Male and female sailors, completely oblivious, are then killed. Or captured. And we know what happens to females when they're captured. Jessica Lynch, anyone?

Regaurdless. People, come on, stop over analyzing, and play. It pains me to see people find reasons to not figure out a solution, but instead show their expansive knowledge of Star Trek, such as Starfleet code, Klingon code, Romulan code, and all that. I'm a well-rounded sci-fi fan. I don't specialize in just one area of my favorite sci-fi universes and learn relatively useless knowledge. I mean, there is so much to Star Trek, Star Wars, FarScape, and Battlestar Galactica to know every thing about all of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the intelligence this last poster displayed, however if this were a simulation in the actual game I think he'd play along, and probably not even take a second thought about any of this.

=_=

On the positive side to the excessive analyzing, it is helping me to write my next KM scenario.

Glad to help ;)

But you know, this is all basic Trek info, not ''minute caracters on a Ferengi contract.'' All of this is basic info every Starfleet cadet at the Academy would have to learn before ever being assigned to a starship, let alone handling the huge responsibility of Captaincy.

And KMs are for cadets, right? If I were really a Starfleet cadet, after 4 years of intense study and training, I would have to know all this, no need to have second thoughts; the more so after years of service to become a captain!

So... over analyzing? How can you solve a problem correctly without analyzing?

More so if there are flaws in the problem.

Well for one, I like my Star Trek to be accurate: that is why I love Star Trek in the first place; the perfect combination of imagination and realism.

The more so if there is a problem to analyse.

You seem to forget that your ''working class mentality'' doesn't exist anymore in a society where money has been abolished and every basic need is fulfilled, In Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future, humanity has evolved beyond our petty needs and is united to discover the universe and achieve it's full potential, down to the individual. In the Federation, no one does a job he doesn't want to do, or just to make a living.

We can thus only assume your mining ship Captain is simply demented.

Finally, who said anything about killing anyone? This is Starfleet; for 200 years Starfleet has the proven technology to accurately pinpoint one's weapon to a specific target and disable a ship without endangering the crew. It is even standard procedure (Starfleet'Rules of Engagement). Another fact known just by watching any of the series or movies, no need for deep research at all.

And I did play along and submitted my solution. Look it up. I don't say it's the best... but it does follow the essence of Star Trek. And many here came up with the same approach. There is a logic to Star Trek. The more it is followed, the better it is for everyone to enjoy... especially in those KMs:D

RagnarIV

07-28-2009, 01:33 PM

First things first, I would eject the warp core. That thing is a ticking time bomb and a serious liability.

I would then have the convoy pull me along via tractor beam. I get all the benefits of warp travel, with none of the risk, and they get an Excalibur class escort. Win/win.

As for the Klingons and the headstrong captain, well. We don't want to go impugning the Klingon's sense of honor by interfering with their right to punish those who trespass in their space.

Maybe I could shoot the warp core at them. Or rig up the main deflector to do something unusual.

Your post is epic win.

Or you could tell them that the freighter is infested with a deadly virus that can spread through open space, which for now is contained on the ship. That way they wouldn't shoot the ship for fear of dying a dishonorable death. I would then offer to tow the ship back into federation space to dispose of it. I would also make it clear to the Klingons that if anything happens to the convoy that I will destroy the freighter in their space and they'll be screwed.

I mean come on, their Klingons! Science/virology isn't exactly their forte.

CommodorePike

07-28-2009, 02:17 PM

DarkxArcher

07-28-2009, 02:27 PM

Well this is my plan i obviously wont leave a helpless ship to be destroyed, even if the captian was being an a**hole and the crew was just following orders. so i would tell all of the ships in the convoy to active there warp drives on full and to met at a secure location,like the closest federation or allied space station. next i would tell the klingons that the miningship is having a problem with its navigation system and that is why it is going off course and to disengage there weapons because we will be moving the ship with a tractor beam, and if they continue it is a declaration of war against the federation and its allies,and that i would have no mercy on them. if the klingons do not believe us or are just hungry for a fight then i would immidiately (picard there a$$ and activite full warp and land right infront of the mining vessel who i can now give support and beam the crew up untill the situation was delt with in which ever way the klingons wish.....:D

preatorShinzon

07-28-2009, 03:07 PM

normal Klingon attack pattern would have been to stay cloaked and not reveal their position , by all three ships decloaking i say they are willing to talk before all hell brakes loose i would order the mining ship to return to formation and hail the klingons to let them know the violation into their space was not an act of war. if all else fails order the mining vessel to leave Klingon space at all possible speed and maintain my position escorting the comboy. if you leave the comboy you will risk the lives of many intead of a few that fail to follow oders...:mad:

kellyicus

07-28-2009, 03:36 PM

rescue the idiot kill the klingons. and then turn the phasers on the minner and kill him to set an example for the rest.

Telaura

07-28-2009, 04:15 PM

I would get within transporter range, beam aboard any personel and cargo...destroy the mining vessel, then hail klingons and persuade them to stand down, then open fire with torpedos and phasers. With them at standby, they should be easy targets.

What is the point of destroying the mining vessel? And why would you open fire on a Klingon ship inside Klingon territory? Are you trying to start a war?

Telaura

07-28-2009, 04:19 PM

rescue the idiot kill the klingons. and then turn the phasers on the minner and kill him to set an example for the rest.

Why all the killing? Is there any need to destroy the Klingons? What is the purpose of destroying the mining freighter?

I'm confused...are you a Starfleet captain? Or a Jem'Hadar commander...

Telaura

07-28-2009, 04:22 PM

groo567

07-28-2009, 06:40 PM

Chances are too high that the klingons that decloaked are a diversion. If I left the convoy alone, more might appear and attack it while I was away helping one ship. I stay with the convoy.

Anaxamenes

07-28-2009, 07:07 PM

Um, that ship wouldn't have left the convoy. I'd have it tractored and the Captain placed in the brig before it got so much as a few thousand kilometers away. We can't be letting some idiot start a war, I just got new rims and tires for my starship!

KlinZha

07-28-2009, 07:54 PM

According to the scenario it did leave the convoy. If I were a Starfleet officer the best I could do would be to attempt to negotiate with the Klingons. I would also inform Starfleet of the situation, and request orders, though I would think Starfleeet would not risk a war with the Empire over this matter.

To the individual who is under the misguided notion that warfare is not part of STO all I can say is " you're obviously Federation". I'm a Klingon and the call of battle is the drumbeat of my heart, the song of war flows through my viens, and a battlecry is the last thing my ememy will hear. Their last vision will be that of my Bat'leth severing their head or my ships disruptors and torps sending them all screaming most ungently to that dread night! War is part of STO when you're a Klingon.

Either fight or die, otherwise whimper and die!

Hawkeyebx3

07-28-2009, 08:33 PM

Chances are too high that the klingons that decloaked are a diversion. If I left the convoy alone, more might appear and attack it while I was away helping one ship. I stay with the convoy.

i agree it woukd be a risk i would signal my fleet(guild) to help the mining vessel then continue with my mission and have a friend record it so we coud watch the outcome later;) then if the captain survived have him incarserated :D

deusdraco

07-28-2009, 10:11 PM

id get the klingons to let the crew of the ship go by letting them keep the cargo ship leaving the crew of it on my ship

Telaura

07-28-2009, 10:19 PM

[DISCLAIMER]--You should assume that everyone you meet while playing interactive internet games is a complete douchebag from the start- so that you're not surprised when someone says or does something that falls into the category of general douchebaggery, and you're blissfully startled when someone says or does something that is nice. This way, you don't get needlessly upset when somebody offends you.

That being said, I have a tendancy to be an a-hole. Please, don't take it personally if I say something that ticks you off. I just have zero tolerance for ignorance, especially willful ignorance (which translates into "dumb on purpose." This is achieved by not caring or taking the time to think about what you say. i.e., trying to sound smarter than you are, or talking out of your butt).--[END DISCLAIMER]

To the individual who is under the misguided notion that warfare is not part of STO all I can say is " you're obviously Federation". I'm a Klingon and the call of battle is the drumbeat of my heart, the song of war flows through my viens, and a battlecry is the last thing my ememy will hear. Their last vision will be that of my Bat'leth severing their head or my ships disruptors and torps sending them all screaming most ungently to that dread night! War is part of STO when you're a Klingon.

I never said that warfare was not part of STO. There are wars in Star Trek, certainly, and the Federation was until recently involved in one with the Dominion. How you conceived "no war in STO" from my statement that said "there's more to Star Trek than just pointless killing" is beyond me.

I understand that this new Star Trek movie has brought a lot of the younger generation onboard the Star Trek bandwagon, and that is wonderful. I love that kids now days are playing with toys that I played with when I was a kid (I'm probably old enough to be the father of 75% of you who are on these forums and are going to play this game). However, games such as Call of Duty and Halo have turned the majority of gamers into "shoot and kill no matter what" gamers. This saddens me. There is SO much more to Star Trek than just going in phasers blazing. Star Trek is about diversity, unity, diplomacy, problem solving and exploration, among other things. War is a part of Star Trek, yes. But it is not the theme of Star Trek. There are times for combat, but those times are few and far between.

And so, dearest friends, I urge you: please try to, in the future, to answer these questions the Star Trek way (this is a Star Trek game, after all), and not just default to "kill the klingons and destroy the ship to set an example." That is not the Star Trek way. Think outside the box, think intelligently, think Trekky. If the question places you into the seat of a Federation Starship, you must play out the scenario as a Federation captain! If the question places you on the bridge of a Romulan Warbird about to drop out of warp into the middle of a battle, you must answer the question as a Romulan commander! To not answer them appropriately ruins everything. It removes imagination, it removes you from the situation, it removes the rationality and thinking from the scenario. It removes Star Trek from the game.

Captain_Glenn

07-29-2009, 03:00 AM

I would finish the escort with the miners who listened and then use a local star to slingshot through time (it works, see the episode "Tommorow is Yesterday") and then go back and save the idiot who went into Klingon Territory :) im in 2 places at once works just fine and it gets the job done... maybe it's not the most peaceful way to end a conflict ,but it works...

Kheren

07-29-2009, 06:45 AM

[DISCLAIMER]--You should assume that everyone you meet while playing interactive internet games is a complete douchebag from the start- so that you're not surprised when someone says or does something that falls into the category of general douchebaggery, and you're blissfully startled when someone says or does something that is nice. This way, you don't get needlessly upset when somebody offends you.

That being said, I have a tendancy to be an a-hole. Please, don't take it personally if I say something that ticks you off. I just have zero tolerance for ignorance, especially willful ignorance (which translates into "dumb on purpose." This is achieved by not caring or taking the time to think about what you say. i.e., trying to sound smarter than you are, or talking out of your butt).--[END DISCLAIMER]

I never said that warfare was not part of STO. There are wars in Star Trek, certainly, and the Federation was until recently involved in one with the Dominion. How you conceived "no war in STO" from my statement that said "there's more to Star Trek than just pointless killing" is beyond me.

I understand that this new Star Trek movie has brought a lot of the younger generation onboard the Star Trek bandwagon, and that is wonderful. I love that kids now days are playing with toys that I played with when I was a kid (I'm probably old enough to be the father of 75% of you who are on these forums and are going to play this game). However, games such as Call of Duty and Halo have turned the majority of gamers into "shoot and kill no matter what" gamers. This saddens me. There is SO much more to Star Trek than just going in phasers blazing. Star Trek is about diversity, unity, diplomacy, problem solving and exploration, among other things. War is a part of Star Trek, yes. But it is not the theme of Star Trek. There are times for combat, but those times are few and far between.

And so, dearest friends, I urge you: please try to, in the future, to answer these questions the Star Trek way (this is a Star Trek game, after all), and not just default to "kill the klingons and destroy the ship to set an example." That is not the Star Trek way. Think outside the box, think intelligently, think Trekky. If the question places you into the seat of a Federation Starship, you must play out the scenario as a Federation captain! If the question places you on the bridge of a Romulan Warbird about to drop out of warp into the middle of a battle, you must answer the question as a Romulan commander! To not answer them appropriately ruins everything. It removes imagination, it removes you from the situation, it removes the rationality and thinking from the scenario. It removes Star Trek from the game.

You just raised my hopes for this game a good notch.

I would only add to your request that it should be extended to the writers of those KM. Not that a war situation is irrelevant (the original KM is exactly that); but when designing the parameters, use Star trek context, not copy paste a Star Wars plot, a Battlestar Galactica scenario, a Stargate SG1 story or an EVE Online context like this one did.

Remember, even the original KM was erroneous (Not entering Klingon Neutral Zone is a stipulation of the ROMULAN Neutral Zone, not of the Organian Peace Treaty between UFP and the Empire... and Klingons DO take prisonners; the ROMULANS didn't, at least in Kirk's time ).

But in all cases, even the worst, if there is at least one officer out there like you, this game will live up to it's name.

Sir, I salute you.

Hawkeyebx3

07-29-2009, 08:35 AM

However, games such as Call of Duty and Halo have turned the majority of gamers into "shoot and kill no matter what" gamers. This saddens me. There is SO much more to Star Trek than just going in phasers blazing. Star Trek is about diversity, unity, diplomacy, problem solving and exploration, among other things. [/U][/I].

Ya but your not thinking of those people who will go in phasers blazing ive played many games where questions were answered with shotgun deplomacy in games were you had a choice. like freelancer(an old space themed game) you could make all your money tradeing matirials to space stations, until another player blew you out of the galaxy

Telaura

07-29-2009, 12:41 PM

Ya but your not thinking of those people who will go in phasers blazing

You're right. I'm not thinking of them because tactics like that do not exist in the Star Trek universe.

ive played many games where questions were answered with shotgun deplomacy in games were you had a choice.

Which games?

like freelancer(an old space themed game) you could make all your money tradeing matirials to space stations, until another player blew you out of the galaxy

Freelancer is not of the style you mentioned above. I played Freelancer when it first hit the shelves (it was my final year of college), and I remember there being a storyline to follow. Freelancer was an amazing game because of the nearly endless possibilities and ways to play that game. But the problem with that was, if you broke from the storyline you never got to finish it, you never got to experience Freelancer the way it was designed. Freelancer gave you the option to do break off the storyline if you wanted to, sure. But if you left the line, all you could do were random missions and build rep with other factions. There was nothing ever to accomplish (except gaining wealth and a fancy new Eagle ship to fly around in. Why would you want to, essentially, remove the core from the game? Remove Trent Edison's story, remove Star Trek from the game?

-----------------------------------------------------BLURB-----------------------------------------------------

I really think that we (plural, indicitive) could just run around in circles all day about this subject. I can appreciate different modes of play, but I may be too old and inconsiderate (especially about Star Trek) to accept that people will just throw cannon away and not play this game like a Star Trek game. Let me make one thing clear about this: It's not because I do not understand the mindset of today's gaming generation. I've been playing World of Warcraft for the past four and a half years, and I interact with that mindset on a daily basis. To be truthful with all of you, I anticipate gaming like that in a Star Trek game and it makes me sad. Listen kids, I grew up on Star Trek. I remember running home from school to catch episodes of TNG when the aired for the first time (you late twenty-somethings can remember doing that with Voyager...?), watching a young Commander Ben Sisko try to get a handle on his new space station when that series premiered for the first time. Star Trek was such a huge part of my childhood that I cannot fathom anyone wanting to play this game in a way that's not the Star Trek way. It's ironic that I say this to you now after I gave my disclaimer about not taking things personally, that I have a hard time taking non-Star Trek play in this game personally. I grew up with a single mother, and I looked up to those characters on the screen. Jean-Luc Picard was a pseudo father figure to me. He taught me right from wrong, how to be strong, how to be a leader. All of you who are going to play this game like children, will be destroying a part of my childhood, a part of my history. But all of you who will play this game the way a Star Trek game should be played- I commend you. I'm not one of those hardcore fans who dresses up in a Starfleet uniform and goes to every convention, who knows how to speak Klingon, and can recite the Federation Charter. I love Star Trek in a different way. I appreciate it for what it teaches us, how it solves problems, and especially how it discusses issues and situations that we deal with in our lives today (racism, sexuality, politics, war, economy, et cetera). I can only pray that this game will have different servers for different modes of play, so that I can play this game with other people like me, where I don't have to watch people ruin my experiences every single day. I also hope that those who are reading this can understand and appreciate where myself and people like me are coming from.

I would be more than happy to discuss these things with you, but perhaps the forums (and especially this KM thread) may not be the appropriate venue. Please feel free to send me a PM here if you wish to discuss anything, or argue with me. Thanks

--------------------------------------------------END BLURB--------------------------------------------------

Feryk

07-29-2009, 12:48 PM

This thread has drifted into other territory, but my answer to this scenario is fairly simple.

1.) Warp into the the conflict zone and thank the Klingons for rounding up the wayward Captain.

2.) Claim the right to punish the offender for yourself. When challenged by the Klingons, challenge the captain of the largest vessel to single combat to decide the issue.

3.) Hope your H2H combat skill is high enough to survive.

4.) When you acheive victory, beam the captain to the brig, and make damn sure the 2IC will fly right.

Telaura

07-29-2009, 12:51 PM

You just raised my hopes for this game a good notch.

I would only add to your request that it should be extended to the writers of those KM. Not that a war situation is irrelevant (the original KM is exactly that); but when designing the parameters, use Star trek context, not copy paste a Star Wars plot, a Battlestar Galactica scenario, a Stargate SG1 story or an EVE Online context like this one did.

Remember, even the original KM was erroneous (Not entering Klingon Neutral Zone is a stipulation of the ROMULAN Neutral Zone, not of the Organian Peace Treaty between UFP and the Empire... and Klingons DO take prisonners; the ROMULANS didn't, at least in Kirk's time ).

But in all cases, even the worst, if there is at least one officer out there like you, this game will live up to it's name.

Sir, I salute you.

This was a good KM, I think. It challenged readers to try to devise a plan that would follow Starfleet code, but not result in loss of life. There were certain details that needed to be looked at in order to solve the problem correctly (my answer can be found here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=23595&page=14), towards the center of the page).

You too have raised my hopes for the game. Thank you for speaking intelligently and for using proper grammar and punctuation.

Riva

07-29-2009, 01:00 PM

As was noted in an earlier post. The mining ship should have never left my convoy. I would have disabled it's engines first. However, since is appears that it did. (which someone will suffer for). My only option is to notify Star Fleet Command of the situation. Hail the Klingons and try to convince them to let my wayward miners return to my convoy. However, I am not leaving the convoy.(I may move my ship between the conflict and the convoy to make it look like I may come to the miners aid but never leave range of my convoy) The mining ship is on it's own if the Klingons refuse to release them.

Kheren

07-29-2009, 01:11 PM

This was a good KM, I think. It challenged readers to try to devise a plan that would follow Starfleet code, but not result in loss of life. There were certain details that needed to be looked at in order to solve the problem correctly (my answer can be found here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=23595&page=14), towards the center of the page).

You too have raised my hopes for the game. Thank you for speaking intelligently and for using proper grammar and punctuation.

You give high praise to someone who's native language is not English (it's French) ; thank you.

As for the record; I too was raised with Star Trek, running from school as a little boy to watch it even when I didn't understand English a the time (but it was translated a few years later). I had the chance to watch it from the very first episode too...

But i my case, it was the Original series ! :D

Guess I might be old enough to be your father LoL;)

I sincerely hope to see you out there when the game comes out. look for me, I'll be using the same name and a member of Lotus Fleet.

Live long and prosper.

clayaqin

07-29-2009, 03:36 PM

I would reprogram the simulation so it's possible to rescue the ship.

tk104

07-29-2009, 05:03 PM

I would immediately hail the Klingon ships and inform them that the stray freighter was carrying a desperately needed litter of tribbles to the children of the Federation and ask that they kindly escort the vessel...

W-what do you mean the freighter's disappeared? :confused:

CaptainBenjaminAltemus

07-29-2009, 05:22 PM

I would sigh, straighten my uniform, and hail the lead enemy ship and explain that the mining vessel us under the protection of the UFoP and by proxy, me. He has disobeyed orders to stay out of Klingon space and will be punished for his imprudence and utter stupidity for challenging you. Please do not allow things to get out of hand. Let the stray ship return to formation and we will be on our way giving no further trouble to your mighty empire....
Oh, and captain, rest assured that the captain of the vessel will be relieved of command and spend the rest of our mission in my personal brig. To that, you have my word of honor.

Telaura

07-29-2009, 05:56 PM

You give high praise to someone who's native language is not English (it's French) ; thank you.

As for the record; I too was raised with Star Trek, running from school as a little boy to watch it even when I didn't understand English a the time (but it was translated a few years later). I had the chance to watch it from the very first episode too...

But i my case, it was the Original series ! :D

Guess I might be old enough to be your father LoL;)

I sincerely hope to see you out there when the game comes out. look for me, I'll be using the same name and a member of Lotus Fleet.

Live long and prosper.

Merci ! Je ne parle pas français, mais remercie Dieu des traducteurs en ligne libres. Je vous ai ajouté à ma liste de copain. Voyez-toi dans-jeu !

Kheren

07-29-2009, 06:35 PM

Merci ! Je ne parle pas français, mais remercie Dieu des traducteurs en ligne libres. Je vous ai ajouté à ma liste de copain. Voyez-toi dans-jeu !

Online translators are rather clumsy and sometimes make funny mistakes... but your message did come across and I will add you to my friends list as well.

See you out there!

xfunk1

07-29-2009, 08:49 PM

I would go to rescue the mining ship. But first I would have to hail the convoy and let them know of the situation and tell them to stay on high alert until I return. I would also send a shuttle from my ship to patrol the area around the convoy while I am gone and alert me if anything happens. The convoy is in less danger then the mining ship at the moment so that would be my choice. I would hail the lead Klingon ship, the Korok, as I approach them and keep my ship on red alert in case I need to fight. In my hail, I would try to negotiate with the Klingons to let us go unharmed but if they do not comply I would target the Klingon ships weapons array to disable them and send a few photons in their to confuse them while I use my tractor to get the mining vessel out of there. If all else fails, I would beam the crew of the vessel aboard my ship. If the captain of the mining ship causes any more trouble I will have him thrown into the brig so he would not put anyone else at risk again. If the convoy gets into trouble as well when I am dealing with the mining ship, I would just beam the crew aboard and get back to the convoy to help.

KlinZha

07-29-2009, 09:41 PM

Kheren my friend..lol I would argue that English is your native language, one of them anyway...lol From my understanding Canada is a Bi Lingual Nation, and in Canada by Law both French and English are used in public i.e Road Signs, Government Documents and such.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that this is a Star Trek scenario. This is a Star Trek game, play like it. All this needless killing and starting wars is pointless, and it is not the Starfleet (or even the Star Trek) way. If you want to kill people to set an example, or kill people when they're not expecting it, please, go play a different game. This one is not for you.

Talaura, I would say from your wording here that you felt that warfare was no part of Star Trek. Now the reason I'll be playing STO is due to the PvP Cryptic will offer players. Now the quote I use as reference has an overall tone that one reading would reasonably conclude that you feel warfare is not part of Star Trek. Your tone was rather arguementative, and I'm inclined to respond by saying please grow up and get a life. I normally would attempt a more concilitory tone with you, yet your denile of what you said is not something I care for. I detest deception in RL. Now if you were Rping that would be an entirely different matter, yet that was not the case. If you woud've said "not the Starfleet way" I could then say, Feds will be feds....lol Yet to say " not the Star Trek way is an affront to those Races/ Empires inclined to following the Sacred Dictates of Natural Selection.....i.e. only the strongest survive. I assure you that when playing my Warrior I'll paint the Deep with the fiery colors of the burning ships of my foes! Hmmm... Perhaps you're the one who should play a different game, for you do realize STO will have a PvP element ( consensual PvP of course ).

Telaura

07-30-2009, 01:23 AM

I am going to break this reply apart into a few different sections, so that I can respond accordingly to each one.

Talaura, I would say from your wording here that you felt that warfare was no part of Star Trek. Now the reason I'll be playing STO is due to the PvP Cryptic will offer players. Now the quote I use as reference has an overall tone that one reading would reasonably conclude that you feel warfare is not part of Star Trek.

It appears that you misunderstood me for some reason. Perhaps it is because you did not care to read my reply to your previous installment on this thread. I will quote it below for your review. Please feel free to follow the link to see the entire post, since what is below is only an excerpt.

I never said that warfare was not part of STO. There are wars in Star Trek, certainly, and the Federation was until recently involved in one with the Dominion. How you conceived "no war in STO" from my statement that said "there's more to Star Trek than just pointless killing" is beyond me.

I do not believe I can be any more clear than I was there. Read the first sentance again, it's the clincher.

Your tone was rather arguementative, and I'm inclined to respond by saying please grow up and get a life. I normally would attempt a more concilitory tone with you, yet your denile of what you said is not something I care for. I detest deception in RL.

I disagree. Stating a difference in opinion, or trying to explain what Star Trek (notice that I said "Star Trek" and not "STO." This is very important) is about does not constitute an argument. This reply, however, is argumentative, and you may feel free to quote me on it as you wish. And I used no deception whatsoever in my post. There are no lies or other forms of deception anywhere in any of my postings. Perhaps you have confused the word with another.

Now if you were Rping that would be an entirely different matter, yet that was not the case. If you woud've said "not the Starfleet way" I could then say, Feds will be feds....lol Yet to say " not the Star Trek way is an affront to those Races/ Empires inclined to following the Sacred Dictates of Natural Selection.....i.e. only the strongest survive.

The only thing I have to say to this section, is that this attempt at a verbal attack is coming from the person who is RPing as a Klingon warrior. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, and I guarantee you it is, wasn't even the mighty Klingon Empire brought to it's knees, to the brink of death, by a lowly Tribble? Natural selection indeed.

I assure you that when playing my Warrior I'll paint the Deep with the fiery colors of the burning ships of my foes! Hmmm... Perhaps you're the one who should play a different game, for you do realize STO will have a PvP element ( consensual PvP of course ).

Again with the RP. This is all well and good. Crytpic has said many times that there will be separate servesr for PVP and non-PVP modes of play. Please, by all means enjoy yourself on the PVP servers. If that is why you play the game, who am I to interfere or say that you are wrong? Myself, I will NOT be on a PVP server. It's just not for me, it's not my prefered style of gameplay.

__________________________________________________ ________

Now, Klin, do not ever perceive yourself to be smarter more knowledgable about alll things Star Trek than me. I'm not saying that I am all-knowing, because I am not. There are many, many people out there who know a great deal more than I do. But what I am is far more knowledgable regarding Star Trek than you are. It is apparent to me from your misspelled name and House name, and from your poor spelling and grammar that you a new to Star Trek (probably since the Enterprise series was launched) and that you're still in school (9th grade, maybe?). In the future, it may do you well not to attempt to out-smart or out-talk someone who is obviously far more advanced than you are (myself or others, it does not matter. This is a good life lesson to learn). If you wish to continue this line of discussion, please feel free to send me a PM here on the forums, to keep it off the forums and to save yourself any further embarassment.

To those of you who are thinking to themselves, "My God, Telaura/Venona is a complete A-hole..." please refer to my disclaimer, which can be found quoted in it's entirety at the top of the previous page or by clicking here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=663722&postcount=209). Thank you.

Kheren

07-30-2009, 04:27 AM

Kheren my friend..lol I would argue that English is your native language, one of them anyway...lol From my understanding Canada is a Bi Lingual Nation, and in Canada by Law both French and English are used in public i.e Road Signs, Government Documents and such.

Canada has indeed 2 official languages wich are English and French.

But know that a good majority of English speaking people in Canada do not understand French any better than Americans... and much less than the British. And when British and Americans do learn French, they most often speak it way much better than the majority of Canadians do (including many born with it!).

Quebec and New-Brunswick are the only true Bilingual provinces in Canada because of their relatively important concentration of French speaking people (Quebec is largest with 7 millions in population with 80% being Francophones). The main cities of Ontario (at least Ottawa, the capital) have a relatively fair number of Anglophones able to converse in French... but everywhere else, it is all unilingual English; unilingual French citizens cannot even be served in their ''official language'' by legal and government offices!

As for me: I was born in a French only family (my Father was in the navy and perfectly bilingual but my mother didn't speak English at all) in a medium sized town (for Canada!) that is 97.6% French speaking. I learned French at school and among other things, watching... Star Trek! :D

KlinZha

07-30-2009, 06:32 AM

Everyone seems to be forgetting that this is a Star Trek scenario. This is a Star Trek game, play like it. All this needless killing and starting wars is pointless, and it is not the Starfleet (or even the Star Trek) way. If you want to kill people to set an example, or kill people when they're not expecting it, please, go play a different game. This one is not for you.

Telaura, I stand Quoting the original statement you made. Let's be perfectly clear here. You seemed upset in that post that people were not posting in a way you would prefer, and your beligerant tone ended with an invitation for posters to play a different game from Star Trek online. Your current post is nothing more than an attempt at misdirection from what you originally stated. It's rather sad that seemingly you will not admit to this when obviously caught and held to account. lol oh well, each to their own. Now the reply to my post inwhich you refer to above was a denile of what you plainly stated. There is no way anyone could've misinterpreted what you said in your post.

Kheren, I find it weird that Canadians for the most part ( other than yourself ) can't speak both English and French. Then again I've not spoken with Canadians at length until I met you my friend. Still I find it weird. After hearing this I might say " Hmmm.... perhaps Bi Lingual Cultures can't work. Then I think of Sweden which while "not" Bi Lingual does teach it's citizens the English Lanuage. Anyway my friend your English is quite execellent, and I've enjoyed our conversations.It's always a pleasure speaking with you.

Gaian_Bloodfang

07-30-2009, 09:52 AM

Presuming my crew and I were fast enough to notice the ship leaving the convoy. I would have ordered tactical/weapons to disable the rogue ship while having the captain beamed to the brig, leaving the 2IC (Second In Command) in charge. The have the ship towed behind with a tractor beam while sending an engineering team over to effect repairs while continuing on to the mining site.

However, the problem states that the ship crossed the boarder and were then stopped by three ships. Taking into consideration that I have more lives to protect then just one greedy captain and the poor crew forced to serve under him. I would send a message to the nearest star base and starfleet ships in the area asking for asistance informing them of the situation, though I would continue on with the convoy.

KlinZha

07-30-2009, 09:58 AM

Gaian_Bloodfang, I commend your solution. As a Federation Officer you would be a great credit to Star Fleet.

Gaian_Bloodfang

07-30-2009, 10:06 AM

KlinZha, Thank you for the praise, one of my favorite TNG eps is when troy goes for comman and is given "The Impossible Task" of ordering one of her crew (Even if is was a holosimulation) to their death, this is a larger version of the "Needs of the many over the needs of the few" situation in that specific episode.

Silvermax

07-30-2009, 10:58 AM

If you are leaving your current convoy completely unprotected, then the idiot... is a gonner...

Now if the Convoy has adiquite protection without you, then you move to intercept & try to deal with the klingon threat peacefully, even if it means giving them the deliquient capt. to save the miners...

If the kiligons will not deal peacefully then you do what you must do assuming you even arrive in time at this point...

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 11:19 AM

Glad to help ;)

But you know, this is all basic Trek info, not ''minute caracters on a Ferengi contract.'' All of this is basic info every Starfleet cadet at the Academy would have to learn before ever being assigned to a starship, let alone handling the huge responsibility of Captaincy.

If it was basic trek info, I'd know about it. By over-analyzing, I mean being Mr. Spock, citing regulations and such that your standard STO Gamer is not going to know, because they might just enjoy the shows and the movies. Not study every aspect. Gamers like me. I call myself a trekkie, but fact of the matter is, I really only know little. I know starships and uniforms, and the [here's the kicker] moral of each episodes story. Thats why I love star trek. The moral lessons it teaches (usually obvious ones, but with subliminal messages as we) makes the show worth the campy acting and CG (from like..TOS, and the first season of TNG, I do mean). Thats what makes Star Trek so great and sets it apart from other sci-fi shows that are usually just about war, or the journey of a single hero or small group of heros (like Star Wars for example).

And KMs are for cadets, right? If I were really a Starfleet cadet, after 4 years of intense study and training, I would have to know all this, no need to have second thoughts; the more so after years of service to become a captain!

IF it were real, yes. But like I just mentioned, your standard gamer is not going to know these things. You need to go through at least 4 years of Academy, gruelling memorization of intense data, rules, regulations, tactics, strategies, math, science, physics, etc to be the Captain of a starship. Yes, I agree with you. However, this is a video game, and for what its worth, any greasy faced prepubescent kid can be the captain of a ship in STO.

So... over analyzing? How can you solve a problem correctly without analyzing?

More so if there are flaws in the problem.

Well for one, I like my Star Trek to be accurate: that is why I love Star Trek in the first place; the perfect combination of imagination and realism.

The more so if there is a problem to analyse.

You seem to forget that your ''working class mentality'' doesn't exist anymore in a society where money has been abolished and every basic need is fulfilled, In Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future, humanity has evolved beyond our petty needs and is united to discover the universe and achieve it's full potential, down to the individual. In the Federation, no one does a job he doesn't want to do, or just to make a living.

Oh, I beg to differ. There are still people that work (working class= IE, any work that involves much physical activity. Working class jobs usually don't offer the safest of working conditions), and there are still going to be neccessary jobs that need to be done that people don't really want or like to do. I wouldn't want to work around something that can potentially kill me and still be treated like a "Private" [or in star trek; a crewman, who is treated as 100% disposable. you know... the infamous "Red Shirts"?] Just because we remove money, does not mean evil and crime and pride doesn't exist. You remove money, you only increase the need to have material value in everything else. Especially positions of authority, and power. I was in the US Army, not for long, but I was in. I was a Private E-2, and although I was being paid very well (considering what I was doing), I still found myself being treated pretty worthless. And for a well paid volunteer that had to sacrifice personal time, and being seperated from everyone I knew and loved, I would at least expect to be treated as a human. You know... with enough respect to motivate one to do the others bidding. There will always be people that just don't like taking/following orders. Nobody with the slightest respect, dignity, and pride for themselves is going to allow themselves to be treated as discardable slaves. Needless to say, many people develop disgruntled feelings towards figures of authority, simply out of pride, and sometimes bend and break rules just to say "HEY! ... You there..." It may sound juvenile, but even the most perfect soldier (as any human can get) no matter the age, would behave in this manner.

We can thus only assume your mining ship Captain is simply demented.

Finally, who said anything about killing anyone? This is Starfleet; for 200 years Starfleet has the proven technology to accurately pinpoint one's weapon to a specific target and disable a ship without endangering the crew. It is even standard procedure (Starfleet'Rules of Engagement). Another fact known just by watching any of the series or movies, no need for deep research at all.

The other people posting have mentioned anything about killing anyone. This may be starfleet, but your standard gamer is a 15-30 year old without 200 years of rules and technology to accurately pinpoint a subsystem of a hostile (or victim) target. So, I would have to say, there will be some deep research needed for your *current* real life Earthling.

And I did play along and submitted my solution. Look it up. I don't say it's the best... but it does follow the essence of Star Trek. And many here came up with the same approach. There is a logic to Star Trek. The more it is followed, the better it is for everyone to enjoy... especially in those KMs:D

I will have to watch more Star Trek (I only have season 1 of TOS) and see what I can learn. But this scenario was written with the intent to test moral intelligence. Not military-esque "follow orders" ability.

As you can probably see by the majority of given "what I would do"'s, many people come to one of the 3 same solutions.

The majority say "Stay with the convoy and leave the miners to their klingon fate" (or some violation that sounds worse than this)
The next is "Attempt to contact klingons and negotiate." (or some variation)
The other is "Go in firing everything I've got"

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 01:14 PM

Furthermore, I must also mention that in the shows, especially in Star Trek the original series, orders are often bent or broken to achieve some sort of moral solution. I am currently watching Star Trek, the episode is titled "The Conscience of the King". I see that the beginning of the show explains that rules were broken just for Kirk to take the Enterprise 3 Light Years off course just to speculate than an actor is really an infamous butcherer of 4,000 innocent people. Kirk then breaks regulation by staying in orbit, and then breaking more rules by taking on the passengers of a classic theatre crew, of which "The Executioner" is the leader. Kirk was also an eye witness. By not relinquishing command, he violates "Regulation 619". If we've seen the new movie, that regulation covers the protocol if one is "Emotionally Compromised"

Lt. Riley also breaks orders by escaping from sick bay, breaking into a weapons locker, and then attempts to take revenge because he overheard McCoy tell Kirk (if I remember) that the actor (Anton Karidian) was indeed "Kodos the Executioner".

I also noticed in episodes that aired prior to this episode, orders were disreguarded in even more extreme ways (such as in the episode directly prior to the aforementioned one, called The Menagerie part 1, and part 2.). As well as in the movies. Need I mention Star Trek IV: The Search for Spock? *Admiral* Kirk, as well as Captains Checkov, Uhura, McCoy, Sulu, and Scotty steal the Enterprise. THEY FREAKIN STEAL THE SHIP! And Mr. Scott sabotages the Excelsior!

All so that they may find their missing (and potentially alive) friend, Spock.

And yet, due to their heroism in the following film, they are redeemed, and the only punishment is Admiral Kirk is demoted to Captain, and then assigned command of a rebuild of the very ship he stole!

So as far as I can see, violation of orders is acceptable if the reasoning is in turn beneficial to Starfleet, at the discretion of Starfleet Command.

And furthermore, in the episode following The Conscience of the King, called Balance of Terror, the very beginning starts off with a wedding of two command-division officers aboard the Enterprise. This relationship, by even modern day militaries (and the Coast Guard) strictly forbids such a relationship between soldiers. *Especially* under the same chain of command. On the same boat. And even more so, if the husband or wife is the others superior officer, this is strictly forbidden even in business. So it surprises me that Captain Kirk would wed them.

So we see here that more often than not, it is beneficial to violate rules, customs, courtesies, and regulations in name of morality (although I'm not too sure about the marriage thing. thats kind of far out there, for my understanding. perhaps you could explain that better than I).

Now for this scenario, a ship entering the neutral zone would immediately be considered expendable. However for the efforts of starship manufacturing, if the loss of the mining vessel can be avoided, then it should. Now, I might take into consideration the capabilities of my ship, what it can and cannot do. Both theoretically, and actually. But there is no guarantee how the klingons would act. Its up to your imagination, and knowledge of Star Trek, or even the battlefield itself. (whether it be Army, Navy, Air Force).

Kheren

07-30-2009, 02:24 PM

Telaura

07-30-2009, 03:49 PM

Telaura, I stand Quoting the original statement you made. Let's be perfectly clear here. You seemed upset in that post that people were not posting in a way you would prefer, and your beligerant tone ended with an invitation for posters to play a different game from Star Trek online. Your current post is nothing more than an attempt at misdirection from what you originally stated. It's rather sad that seemingly you will not admit to this when obviously caught and held to account. lol oh well, each to their own. Now the reply to my post inwhich you refer to above was a denile of what you plainly stated. There is no way anyone could've misinterpreted what you said in your post.

You are correct, I was upset at the way that people were replying to the KM. However, it seems that my longer blurbs of trying to encourage people to think outside the box seem to have been lost somewhere. Perhaps it is because people are jumping to conclusions, perhaps it is because I challenged them to play a different game if they were unable to think outside the box. In any case, I suggest that (if you are someone who was offended by my statement) you go back and find the sections where I encourage and challenge people to think outside the realm of kill kill kill and murder this guy to set an example. But to understand why I made those challenges, we must understand the reasons that lead me to make them. Those reasons are simple, and I find myself repeating this quite often. The killing of the freighter captain, destruction or loss of his ship and the killing of the klingons is NOT how Starfleet would have handled this situation. "But I'm not going to play as a Starfleet captain, I'm going to be Klingon!" could be a response that many people have. Good, I'm glad for you. BUT the question was posed to answer as a Federation captain. Throwing all of that away to answer how you would have solved it as a Klingon is unacceptable.

What that says there, to avoid certain confusion, is that you need to follow directions. My statement says that you need to answer the question in the appropriate form that it was asked. The question asked what would you do as a Federation captain. To answer the question as a Klingon, Romulan, Jem'Hadar, or anyone other than a Federation captain does not follow the instructions inside the question. Therefore, all of the "kill the captain and klingons" answers are inherantly incorrect because that is not how a Starfleet captain would have handled the situation. My statements of "play the game like a Star Trek game" are in reference to this specific reason.

Now, what I have just written (and what I have written in the past) is in no way a misdirection from what I originally said. I do admit, that I could have been more clear and precise, but I am not trying to skirt around what I said, or attempt to transform what I said into something different. I do not deny what I said, I am only clarifying. I never have denied what I said. My postings in response to others have been only for clarity's sake. I stand by what I said.

Klin, how come you have not replied to the other statements I have made in reference to RP language and PvP/non-PvP servers, and also the other rebuttles in my previous statement. Have you overlooked those too?

Again, as you can see from my lengthy replies, I am very willing to continue this line of discussion. However, I ask that if you want to continue, please send me a PM here on the forums, so that we can keep this thread clean.

Kheren, I find it weird that Canadians for the most part ( other than yourself ) can't speak both English and French. Then again I've not spoken with Canadians at length until I met you my friend. Still I find it weird. After hearing this I might say " Hmmm.... perhaps Bi Lingual Cultures can't work. Then I think of Sweden which while "not" Bi Lingual does teach it's citizens the English Lanuage. Anyway my friend your English is quite execellent, and I've enjoyed our conversations.It's always a pleasure speaking with you.

Just an aside here. The vast majority of French-speaking Canadians is centered in the province of Quebec, and the eastern portions of Ontario (and the city of Ottawa). During my frequent visits to Toronto and Victoria, and even my smaller jaunts into Saskatchewan, I have only seen a few road signs in French, mainly along the QEW through Toronto. It is entertaining to me to see that sort of thing, being an American. I enjoy different cultures, and seeing the mix there in Toronto and Ottawa was fun for me while I was there. Having gone to an incredibly multi-cultural university, I have grown an appreciation for different cultures, especially when two cultures intermix. I miss it, from time to time.

EDIT: Did you know that South Africa has 11 (yeah, eleven) OFFICIAL languages? Can you imagine the road signs in downtown Johannesburg?

Mr.Chips

07-30-2009, 03:50 PM

Since Kobayashi Maru scenarios are supposed to be training scenarios that are impossible to win, I'll assume that failing to help the arrogant captain will count as a failure of the exam.

Combat is not the answer here, however, and I believe the solution may be rather simple. The excaliber class has an enhanced power grid and advanced warp core at its disposal. Before warping in to assist, we'll divert power from the weapons and reinforce shields with it. After arriving, deploy a small volley of torpedoes (their power requirements should be almost nil, since they are self contained ordinance), expand shields around the freighter, spend a minute or so synchronizing our warp fields and book it back to the freighter group.

Although a single freighter carries little armament, the Klingon vessels present would be foolish to challenge both my brand new Excaliber class and a half dozen or so freighters.

(Note: Although I shall defer to the author's judgement for this scenario, I think an excaliber would actually be more than a match for two Birds of Prey and a 350 year deuteriuma tanker, even one refitted with modern technology. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Korok_(Captain))

However, in an actual field mission, I simply would not have allowed the captain to leave the convoy. Doing so would put the rest of the convoy at risk precisely because I might have to go out and rescue them, leaving the convoy unprotected. If need be, I would relieve the captain of his command or disable his ship if he attempts to flee anyway. Though the other captains may not like such a heavy handed approach, my superiors will hopefully undersand. My mission is to escort the convoy to their destination, not let them scatter in every direction to fulfill their get-rich-quick schemes.

I have the bigger ship, and I'm protecting the convoy--probably one contracted by the federation, too--so I'm in charge. If the freighter captain doesn't feel like following my orders, he shouldn't have signed up for this run.

mattheweagerton

07-30-2009, 05:41 PM

slimply tell the outer ships to put shealds on and follow me then destory the klingons with torptos and save the outer v

JadenStriker

07-30-2009, 05:55 PM

''There can be no true justice as long as laws are treated as absolutes,''

Captain Jean-Luc Picard]
ST TNG: Justice

This confirms your assessment. However, please note:

James T Kirk is historically famous for bending the rules (starting right with his own KM test!). He is not cited as an example of a model Starfleet Officer even if everyone recognize his heroism and that events proved him right... fortunately for him... and not always ( the Episode A private Little War is an example of this).

Even if we take out the incongruities of your scenario (it's EVE Online obviously wich has no point in common with Star Trek except being set in space), going thrugh the zone gun blazings to save day would not be what even Kirk would have done at all.

Kirk would never have fell asleep on the job.

As soon as Spock's sensors would have detected the mining ship powering up (since he would have been watching the avowed criminal)
Sulu would have intercepted it promptly (of course they are near the avowed fool);
Scotty would have stopped it dead in it,s track with a tractor beam (too powerful for a mere civilian ship);
if need be, Chekov would have disabled it's engines with one phaser shot...
and Kirk would have thrown the idiot in the brig
while Uhura would report the charges to Starfleet (of course a report of his criminal intent has been sent as soon as he uttered it).

End of story before it begins.

No need for flashy heroics and grandstand shenanigans; just simple competence.

And if there is one word that should defines any Starfleet officer, it is competence... A Captain most of all.

Did you ever wonder why there has never been a mutiny in the entire history of Starfleet?

Unfortunatly we where given a senario where the mining ship did get out of reach before it could be stopped, and to top that off, this game already takes place during a time of war between Klingon and Federation. More Federation personal are going to be gun hoe about getting their mining ship to that high reward resource field. The general level of compatance wont be how well you prevent the mining ship from taking off, but how well you deal with the mining ship and klingons after the fact.

It is a time of war, Klingons are no longer the allies they once where. They may not be as senaster as they where in Kirks day, but just because there used to be a friendship between then an now, doesn't mean they wont kill that mining ship without hesitation.

With how the Klingons are about Honor, it would likely be more honorable to go in "gins blazing" and kill them, rather then play deplomate or even take them prisoner like my first idea was. Kill them where they stand when they try to kill the mining ship, and you give them their honorable combat death. The Klingons will still be mad, but they wont be as mad as if you did my idea of disable, harrass, then take prisoners, before obliterating their ships.

The Klingons simply wont listen to diplomacy from their enemies, only power and honorable combat. You will have to shoot first.

As far as trying to be a hero goes. I can tell you now, that I am not, and that is not my intent with my first posted idea on how to deal with this. I am frakking insane, and trying to use any idea to fight, survive, and win. My tactics are not heroic, they are despreat, and psycotic.

To pull off most of my idea's of psycotic "heroism" (sarcasm) I would need to be an engineer, as I would need to design photonic and quantom warheads for use in the manner specified in my first post that answered the question. Other wise a class 2 shuttle couldn't fire off 1 warhead, let alone hold 5 of them, because the shuttle would be way to small to even fire off a single round, because the single round would be the size of the shuttles back door. I would need them designed to be the size of a runnabout miniphoto torpedo, while still having the high power of a normal photo torpedo. that means ripping out most of the hardware that makes most photo torpedos smart and mobile and dumbfiring it in a strait line.

Dirfo_1986

07-30-2009, 06:25 PM

Well I have my orders to protect all the ships in the convoy. I would try and end the dispute diplomaticaly. Diplomacy probably wouldn't work with klingons seeing as they like to fight there enemys rather than talking. Even though I would be putting the other ships at risk, I would plot a coarse in between the rogue ship and the klingons and devise a plan to help protect the convoy. I would then show no threat to the klingons and use a tractor beam to drag the rogue ship to our objective. If the klingons show hostility I would try beaming the captain and the crew as well as as much of the cargo as possible over to my ship. I would then remind the klingons that my ship is stronger then theirs. If they continue I would go to red alert tranfer power to the weapons at full power to show our strengths, not that that would work against the klingons. I would then target the weakest ships first and try to disable there engines then the same with there weapons. with that completed I would attack the lead ship with full weapons power targeting the weakest parts of the ship. hopefully rendering the klingon ships harmless. I would then call for aid from the nearest friendly ships in case the klingons repair there ships and come after us.

cancer313

07-30-2009, 06:37 PM

:cool:I would make the vessles i was assigned to keep close enough to me so that the klingons would not be able to target them without messing with me first and then try to avoid mass conflict the only way I could challenge the klingon commanders to a hand to hand death match.

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Unfortunatly we where given a senario where the mining ship did get out of reach before it could be stopped, and to top that off, this game already takes place during a time of war between Klingon and Federation. More Federation personal are going to be gun hoe about getting their mining ship to that high reward resource field. The general level of compatance wont be how well you prevent the mining ship from taking off, but how well you deal with the mining ship and klingons after the fact.

It is a time of war, Klingons are no longer the allies they once where. They may not be as senaster as they where in Kirks day, but just because there used to be a friendship between then an now, doesn't mean they wont kill that mining ship without hesitation.

With how the Klingons are about Honor, it would likely be more honorable to go in "gins blazing" and kill them, rather then play deplomate or even take them prisoner like my first idea was. Kill them where they stand when they try to kill the mining ship, and you give them their honorable combat death. The Klingons will still be mad, but they wont be as mad as if you did my idea of disable, harrass, then take prisoners, before obliterating their ships.

The Klingons simply wont listen to diplomacy from their enemies, only power and honorable combat. You will have to shoot first.

Thank you for bringing this up. I certainly wasn't going to for the sole fact that I thought I was the only one that knew that it was a time of war in the game. People are slowly beginning to put 2 and 2 together.

The cylinder piece does not go in the star slot. Perhaps this is why the dev used this scenario and not the countless others in the 'Submit your own'. Perhaps they were able to read through the lines. My submission was only up for roughly a day (if that) before it became KM#22. the world may never know why they selected my submission. But I am certainly proud of it, considering the responses to it.

KlinZha

07-30-2009, 08:42 PM

Talaura, below this responce you'll find my solution to this KM thread. As you can see I posted with the mindset of a Star Fleet Officer. As for any of your other posts, well since they did not edify the topic we had at hand I saw no reason to refer to them. You state that you wanted to challenge people...lol well, you could find a less beligerant way to do that. The post in which you and I have contestation over was quite concise and clear. Your wording left no room to interpret your words in any other way than obviously stated. I submit that post had the eloquence of a Tellerite...lol. I find it halarious that you say that you stand by what you said, and on the other hand say you wish to clariy, personally a complete retraction would be best, if indeed it's a different meaning you want to give that post of yours. As for my being offended...lol I was not offended by that post. I was highly amused when you invited people who wanted to practice warfare in STO to play another game..lol However, in your post to me before this last of yours, was I think a deliberate attempt to insult me. Your belittling tone did not bother me, for no one can be made to feel insulted or belittled without their consent, and you do not have that from me...lol Your words, manner of expression, and demeanor are indicative of someone unable to have an intelligent dialog without the use of impolite thought or expression. That's your failing, not mine. To anyone here that is reading this I refer you to page 21 post # 203. I'm quite certain that there is only one interpretation of that post. The only way to alter the meaning would be to rewrite it. As for PMing you I honestly see no reason to do so, you're not the kind of person I would normally associate with. I detest bad manners. Now if you were simply RPing a Tellerite or simular race I could and would understand, yet this was not the case.

According to the scenario it did leave the convoy. If I were a Starfleet officer the best I could do would be to attempt to negotiate with the Klingons. I would also inform Starfleet of the situation, and request orders, though I would think Starfleeet would not risk a war with the Empire over this matter.

To the individual who is under the misguided notion that warfare is not part of STO all I can say is " you're obviously Federation". I'm a Klingon and the call of battle is the drumbeat of my heart, the song of war flows through my viens, and a battlecry is the last thing my ememy will hear. Their last vision will be that of my Bat'leth severing their head or my ships disruptors and torps sending them all screaming most ungently to that dread night! War is part of STO when you're a Klingon.

Either fight or die, otherwise whimper and die!

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 09:49 PM

People, whoa. Slow down now. I'm doing *my* best to do the clarifying of the scenario and such. To the best of my ability. Lets just keep the discussion on just that. The scenario, and *its* details. Keep things focused.

JadenStriker

07-30-2009, 10:23 PM

KlinZha

07-30-2009, 10:23 PM

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 10:34 PM

Oh, oops, sorry. don't apologize, I wasn't referring to you. More to the off-topic banter with insults (whether intended or not) flying every which way. I did not expect it to get as far as it did.

It is just that, in order to win a Kobayashi Maru, you have to think it terms of 20 vs 1 and having the "1" win.

You can't do that when you are sane.

In order to win this, I have to assume that I am going to face 20 ships at one time, that could easily over power me, unless I use the most crazy, but with in realistic possabilities, of insane idea's.

If winning against a Kobayashi Maru requires repeatably using the Picard and Riker Manuvers to the point of burning out the Warp Nacels and over loading the warpcore to the point of ejecting the core, then I will use the core as a bomb to blow up one of the attacking ships while doing a ramming charge for another, with the plan to use the burned out nacels as the battering ram, if I can't hook the attacking ship, and drag it into another attacking ship.

That is the level of insantaty it takes to win a 20 vs 1 Kobayashi Maru when you are the one.

Pending Psycological stability doesn't fail you after you win the simulation.

/me awards JadenStriker the Montgomery Scott citation. Even though its likely not real, but the effort was brilliant.

wanobi22

07-30-2009, 10:44 PM

lol other than the deviation I did quote my solution in my last post here. My solution is probably amoung others that people posted here the best way to proceed as a Star Fleet Officer. Unless the Federation desires War with the Empire the only thing that can be done is to attempt to negotiate with the Klingons. It would be a good idea to inform Star Fleet, and request how they would want me to proceed.

Now that I think about it. Hmm.... it may be possible to open a comm channel to the Klingon Ships, and to joke with them about how fearsome, and glorious a kill the mining ship will be. Such a verbal tactic just might cause the Klingons to pause and think of a possible loss of honor from killing such a defenseless P"tah infested ship. With Luck they might, providing you can get the miningship to stop, declare the mining ship to be unworthy of thier time. Who knows unless you try.

One slight problem. In the game, Star Trek Online, it has already been mentioned that there is already an outbreak of war between the Federation and Klingons. This does negate some of the details I had supplied in previous posts in my attempt to clarify, however I wrote those with the intent to leave out what I could. Part of this scenario was written with a lack of details that you as captain would not know about right away. I can't give away full intent of the mining ships captain or if the crew is involved as well or not. That, in a way, is god-modding, if you suddenly knew this information. Even there already being a war. Perhaps the Klingons didn't fire on the ship because they recognize it as (mostly) defenseless, or perhaps the klingons are out of ammo? when they decloaked, wouldn't they have fired right away? something must be wrong, don't you think?

There is a number of things you must think about, given what details you have. I can't tell you everything, but you must use what you know about Star Trek, StarFleet, Klingons, and their ships (and the stardate implied [while not exact, I do mention that the Excalibur-class is brand new]). Then assess the situation with what you know, and solve it to the best of your ability. If all you can think about is firing everything you've got at the klingons, then perhaps that might work. If all you can think about is destroying the mining vessel yourself, perhaps that might work. You'll likely lose your captaincy if you destroyed the mining vessel, but hey, you never know. Now that it has been exposed that it is a time of war, perhaps those who thought about negotiating with the klingons might rethink their strategy.

as for the klingons... they must have a reason for not destroying the mining vessel on sight.

KlinZha

07-30-2009, 11:11 PM

lol well knowing that a state of war exists with the Empire makes it far easier....it would've been far simpler to have said so. Your wording gave the implication that the Federation and The Empire had not begun hostilities. The best approach would probably be to Transport the crew of the mining ship to my ship, destroy the mining ship then move on. I would not want to risk the convoy more than needed, and I also would not want the miningship captured to be used to aid my enemies. Of course once the Klingon ships were detected I would've sent a message to Star Fleet, and I would send a call to any Fed ships in the area able to help. My 1st priority would be protecting the convoy.

Kheren

07-31-2009, 06:48 AM

Oh, oops, sorry.

It is just that, in order to win a Kobayashi Maru, you have to think it terms of 20 vs 1 and having the "1" win.

You can't do that when you are sane.

In order to win this, I have to assume that I am going to face 20 ships at one time, that could easily over power me, unless I use the most crazy, but with in realistic possabilities, of insane idea's.

If winning against a Kobayashi Maru requires repeatably using the Picard and Riker Manuvers to the point of burning out the Warp Nacels and over loading the warpcore to the point of ejecting the core, then I will use the core as a bomb to blow up one of the attacking ships while doing a ramming charge for another, with the plan to use the burned out nacels as the battering ram, if I can't hook the attacking ship, and drag it into another attacking ship.

That is the level of insantaty it takes to win a 20 vs 1 Kobayashi Maru when you are the one.

Pending Psycological stability doesn't fail you after you win the simulation.

Withold that award, please... some little notes FYI:

PICARD MANEUVER: works only againt ships without FTL sensors like the Ferengi at the time of the infamous ''Battle of Maxia''. When it was applied vs Enterprise, they had no problem at all locating his point of arrival and ignoring his ''visual aftereffect''. Obviously Klingons, Romulans, Gorns etc have FTL sensors since they can fight at warp speeds.

RIKER MANEUVER: works only when a sizable deposit of metryon gas is available, like in the Briar Patch. There are not '' Briar Patches'' every parsec of Federation Space! There is none along the Neutral Zone.
Moreover, it works only if the opponent is a) unable to detect the metryon trail you leave behind you or B) dumb enough to fire anyway. Klingons are not dumb.

A NOTE ABOUT EJECTING THE CORE: Ejecting the warp core is not part of those maneuvers; It is a safety precaution in case of containement failure. it is simply like throwing the gas tank out of your car. It has been on occasion attempted to face a problem (closing a subspace tear, destroy a slow target etc) but it has very limited applications and leaves you only with impulse power afterwards (no FTL drive). It is a desperate act for a desperate situation because it effectively strands you in space (at full impulse it takes 6 to 8 minutes to go one AU = from the Sun to Earth's orbit... and 1.5 to 2 years for just crossing one light year!).

And realistically, especially since they were allies of the Federation for decades, Klingons certainly know all the ''old tricks'' of Starfleet (these last were done over 30 years before the scenario). And if there is one thing Klingons would be interested to learn from the Federation, it is Starfleet Combat Strategies and Tactics!

So people, forget recipe books and think creatively!

wanobi22

07-31-2009, 08:18 AM

Withold that award, please... some little notes FYI:

PICARD MANEUVER: works only againt ships without FTL sensors like the Ferengi at the time of the infamous ''Battle of Maxia''. When it was applied vs Enterprise, they had no problem at all locating his point of arrival and ignoring his ''visual aftereffect''. Obviously Klingons, Romulans, Gorns etc have FTL sensors since they can fight at warp speeds.

RIKER MANEUVER: works only when a sizable deposit of metryon gas is available, like in the Briar Patch. There are not '' Briar Patches'' every parsec of Federation Space! There is none along the Neutral Zone.
Moreover, it works only if the opponent is a) unable to detect the metryon trail you leave behind you or B) dumb enough to fire anyway. Klingons are not dumb.

A NOTE ABOUT EJECTING THE CORE: Ejecting the warp core is not part of those maneuvers; It is a safety precaution in case of containement failure. it is simply like throwing the gas tank out of your car. It has been on occasion attempted to face a problem (closing a subspace tear, destroy a slow target etc) but it has very limited applications and leaves you only with impulse power afterwards (no FTL drive). It is a desperate act for a desperate situation because it effectively strands you in space (at full impulse it takes 6 to 8 minutes to go one AU = from the Sun to Earth's orbit... and 1.5 to 2 years for just crossing one light year!).

And realistically, especially since they were allies of the Federation for decades, Klingons certainly know all the ''old tricks'' of Starfleet (these last were done over 30 years before the scenario). And if there is one thing Klingons would be interested to learn from the Federation, it is Starfleet Combat Strategies and Tactics!

So people, forget recipe books and think creatively!

There is no guarantee that the klingons would know all the old tricks. The alliance was a fragile one. If they were allies, the federation could freely move across the borders. This was not the case. If you must have a Neutral Zone (or DMZ= Demilitarized Zone), there may be a truce, but the slightest of things can set this off. I don't call that an alliance. I guess its just a Treaty. Just like with the Romulans. There is a 'truce', its called an alliance, but there is a neutral zone, where the same rules apply. Cross it, and its an act of war. So with this in mind, I highly doubt federation captains/command is going to just tell the klingons or the romulans about these effective, and unique maneuvers. And I am 100% certain technology would not have been shared with them either.

That would have been the equivalent of the United States handing North Korea the formula for nuclear weapons, super-submarine blueprints or our strategy and tactical training. There is a treaty between the two nations. There is a DMZ separating North Korea from South Korea. And America certainly doesn't share its information with the North Koreans.

I can't personally recall the strength of the alliance between Federation and Klingons, but I never saw anything that made me think "Wow, Starfleet and Klingons are friends!"