'Tanking' role, not so boring in STO?

[Tamgros]

First, I say "tanking" role with the idea that some specialization makes sense for any type of combat, and I don't mean to get too caught up in the Tank/heal/DPS paradigm, and I don't Cryptic is either.

In the latest ship of the line (http://www.startrekonline.com/node/320), it says,
The Vo'Quv leads the fleet, taking the heaviest hits and dealing devastating strikes in return.
[...]
Some Vo'Quv's have even been outfitted with Paratrinic shield generators for additional defense. No Vo'Quv has ever been destroyed by a ramming attack.
[...]
the Vo'Quv packs a powerful tractor beam capable of holding most enemy ships in place for a final assault.

So we have the 'tanking' role being covered by a Carrier class, which obviously has other functionality. Looking back at the excalibur:

tractor beams, allowing it to grapple enemy ships that could easily break away from lesser vessels. It has enough crew to get damaged systems back online quickly, and can even transport repair crews to allied ships. And the Excalibur class's reinforced hull allows it to stay in a fight, even when faced with a coordinated enemy assault.- http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/excalibur

It seems like it can take on much of the tank responsibilities on it's own, or extend it's shield around any ship being fired on. This is good because you don't have to worry about silly agro systems as much.

The Excalibur and Vo'Quv seem to be tanks with amazing functionality. Other games have tried to do this with different types of tank "stances", but STO seems to take this to another level and actually give tanks viable alternatives to taking damage. For example, In PvP, if you don't fire on the Vo'Quv you'll have to deal with fighters, boarding parties, etc (and may have to deal with them anyway :p). If you don't fire on the Excalibur, you'll have to fight through its shields anyway. In away, this combines tanking and healing. In most PvP you'd kill the healer first, and the tank last, what's the protocol if something is both? :eek:

Tanking no longer being worthless/boring in combat = Win, IMHO

Thoughts?

[codeminer]

The sound like a combination of tank and manipulator archtypes, if those terms are understood.

Personally, I love the idea of roles on MMO teams. A tank role, a damage dealer role, and then maybe a counter measure role, would be fun in STO i think.

Only problem is, tanking roles aren't really practical if the opposition has the option NOT to shoot the tank. Shield extension may help in this matter, but only if the beneficiary stays nearby.

I liked City of Heroes tanks, cause of the taunt mechanism that forced enemies to attack the tank. But I do not see an easy reasoning to allow this in STO.

[Tamgros]

I liked City of Heroes tanks, cause of the taunt mechanism that forced enemies to attack the tank. But I do not see an easy reasoning to allow this in STO.

In STO it seams like taunt is replaced with tractor beam, as we've seen that in both of the Ship of the LIne write ups on the tankish classes.

Which is also good because the STO taunt equivalent actually works in PvP. Where it doesn't make sense to force players to be "taunted" in PvP, it does make sense to be tractored.

The main problem with tanks in most MMOs, IMO, is PvP. Tanks have very little viability in PvP in many games unless they are given contrived abilities, which is still lame. Giving Tanks practical things like shield extension and external fighter control makes more sense.

[Cassious]

Even if it may seem like tanking to the most i see it as support rather than tanking .

I would generaly prefer Each ship given it's limitations to be able to keep focused damage on it rather than stick to the common by now rules of fantasy rpg .

Since there is no outside healing here nor endless antimatter or infinate warp cores to keep up your shields and the rest up forever, Seen tanking in fantasy terms is pointless , yes in trek cannon the galaxy class can take a lot of punishment but it cannot do that for ever ,we should better remeber how the fleet in first contact and other numerus occasions behaved , in the end I belivee we will have something like rotation after a point.

sorry if i may not make much sense but i am tired of the old tank/healerwhatever conversation and i cannot explain it better myself.

[jdnix]

It may be the equivalent of the Mastermind archetype in COH/V. Although very different mechanically than the traditional tank they play that role in Villain teams. If the carrier's fighters act as pets like like the Mastermind's henchmen, they could be very similar.

[codeminer]

There is a slight difference in City of Heroes tanker taunt and STO's tractor beams. The taunt was an Area of Effect power, which forced a whole group of enemies( and a 50/50 chance to work even in PvP) to only attack the tank.

Whereas, the tractor beam, from what I understand, can only lock on mabye one? or few? and would still not prevent the tractored ship from firing on the not-so-tanky ECM ships or gunboats.

But again, I do like the tank concept and hope they find some way to implement it. :D

[Tamgros]

in the end I belivee we will have something like rotation after a point.

sorry if i may not make much sense but i am tired of the old tank/healerwhatever conversation and i cannot explain it better myself.

I get what you're saying. I think it would be very interesting to see what tactics people employ to try and get the opponent to have to frequently switch targets (in both PvP and PvE).

From my experience, there have been a lot of PUGs that don't understand this concept and "off tanking", so I'm not sure cryptic will try to encourage this as a necessary tactic. Not that I wouldn't want them to...

There is a slight difference in City of Heroes tanker taunt and STO's tractor beams. The taunt was an Area of Effect power, which forced a whole group of enemies( and a 50/50 chance to work even in PvP) to only attack the tank.

Whereas, the tractor beam, from what I understand, can only lock on mabye one? or few? and would still not prevent the tractored ship from firing on the not-so-tanky ECM ships or gunboats.

But again, I do like the tank concept and hope they find some way to implement it. :D
Didn't realize CoH/V's taunt worked in PvP. Haha, I can see that being frustrating, but much like any CC I suppose...

I dont' think there is any strict limitation from allowing a ship to have multiple tractors. I believe many borg cubes have used multiple tractors at once. But you're right, this does sound more like a immobilizing ability with proximity, and not a pure taunt.

I still think that using the tractor would make it much harder for the tractored ship to fire on the other ships effectively because it would be easier for the other ships to stay out of the tractored ship's firing arcs...

[ransomwk]

It doesn't quite strike me as a "tank" per se, certainly not in any conventional sense.

It does strike me as a ship meant to be in a formation, while it may be capable on its own, as part of a group she could really shine. I can see an aggressive tactician wanting her at the front of a formation, but she may be better off slightly forward of center. Somewhere she can make good use of her support abilities while still being forward enough to be a direct threat to opposing forces.


As to the protocol involved in dealing with someone who is both tank and healer, kill it. This ship sounds like it can provide a strong presence in dps, support and staying power. This would make her a priority target, but taking her out might be tricky. If she's resilient enough to hold her own under heavy bombardment, the other ships in her formation would have an opportunity to do enough damage, that the loss of the Vo'Quv wouldn't be crippling. Stand off attacks and strong formation discipline would be key to taking out a Klingon carrier group, and if the ship really is strongest as part of a formation, then the best way to take out a Vo'Quv would be to remove her escorts from the equation.

Like a saying I once heard, "what's the fastest way to kill a wolf? take it out of the pack". The fastest way to kill a Vo'Quv may be to take her out of the pack.