Death

[kglfdo2]

I have a little question
in the game what happens when, say your ship is destroyed or you are killed
thank you

[mwood1387]

I don't know about your ship being destroyed but when your character is 'killed' you'll get beamed to sickbay just in the nick of time just like in the TV shows.

[Anichent]

I think Cryptic might have it so your ship can't be destroyed either....but I think i read wrong :p

[Tamgros]

They've mentioned ships being destroyed. Daeke mentioned this when he was talking narrating his play on the IRC channel.

This isn't to be confused with permadeath, however. When your ship is destroyed, you won't lose your ship. Not sure of the exact mechanic or explanation, not that there needs to be, it's a game...

There will be lower deck, 'red shirt', loss when you die...

[Beaver8]

I am assuming you will blow up, then respawn at a shipyard or station with some damage that needs to be repaired and crew to be replaced. Your bridge officers won't technically die, and neither will you, your crew though will need to be replaced.

On the ground portion of the game you will be beamed out and not actually ever die as well.

[Zepath]

Yep, they have said your ship can be destroyed.

Of course you can immediately get another ... so what what's the penalty? Who knows. The game is being "dumbed down" so much in the name of "Fun" it seems to me they are taking all the "Fun out of it.

I don't know why it is that Dev's lose sight of the fact that the challenge and risk is what makes the reward satisfying.

I mean hell, how satisfying would it be if you could just buy .... oh wait! :(

[KO_Gilligan]

I am assuming you will blow up, then respawn at a shipyard or station with some damage that needs to be repaired and crew to be replaced. Your bridge officers won't technically die, and neither will you, your crew though will need to be replaced.

On the ground portion of the game you will be beamed out and not actually ever die as well.

The long cruise back to your mission might be a worthy deterrent.

In any event, they said no heavy penalty, so I can see doing what you said.

[Xextreem]

When dead you lose sp points or prestage or whatever perhaps a res sickness like wow or whatever. Ether way you need to get a penalty.

[Existing_Account]

I've read somewhere, I think in one of the "Ask Cryptic"s, the idea of adding/changing the letter after your ship's registration. I believe it may have been said in jest but I think it wouldn't be too bad an idea, unless of course you died so many times that you ended up flying the (exempli gratia) NCC-1701-ZZZZZZZZZZ, which I believe is over sixty-trillion deaths so perhaps there wouldn't be much to worry about.

[Amblin]

No doubt you'll eject in an escape pod, leaving a red shirt trapped under a collapsed celing., but even if caught in an event horizon after ejecting, Q will turn up to save YOU.

YOU are SPECIAL!

No perma death here, look away, LOOK AWAY!

[Tamgros]

I've read somewhere, I think in one of the "Ask Cryptic"s, the idea of adding/changing the letter after your ship's registration. I believe it may have been said in jest but I think it wouldn't be too bad an idea, unless of course you died so many times that you ended up flying the (exempli gratia) NCC-1701-ZZZZZZZZZZ, which I believe is over sixty-trillion deaths so perhaps there wouldn't be much to worry about.
I think they were joking about adding letters. But yeah, people would have to die more than 17.5k times in order to get to 4 letter codes even...

No doubt you'll eject in an escape pod, leaving a red shirt trapped under a collapsed celing., but even if caught in an event horizon after ejecting, Q will turn up to save YOU.

YOU are SPECIAL!

No perma death here, look away, LOOK AWAY!

haha, I don't know if all redshirts die and only the captain/bridge officers are saved. I'd like to see a % of redshirt death. Things like the ship gradually blowing up wouldn't take much crew death, but falling into a black whole or using Ramming Speed would cause a higher % or something.

BTW, do you really have " " as your name? That's pretty funny. Where you the "_" that came on IRC?

[Amblin]

For some reason my tag, Amblin isn't working so I am now the Nameless Traveller or ""

I believe it is because spock time travelled, arrived at Bognor Regis in the 1970's, dated then married my mother and created a different timeline. =)

I personally think they should have perma death.

Make it so your best BO is your new avatar, and your name goes on a plaque on the new ship maybe have a field or Rememberance memorial???

Only thing is no one wants have an Obituary like this; "Captain Ijit, fell in battle against the Stardock 112 doors during his first assignment. Cause of death, failure to understand the concept of perspective. Remembered by his brother Dougal.

Or if it isn't perma death that your carcas is fired onto a new planet along with Project Genesis. Or you're cloned from your last teleporter log. Hopefully there's no flies around at the time or it could get mesy.

Or Q does turn up and save your sorry ass as the blood seeps through your skin in the cold, near vauum of space. (No such thing as a true vaccuum).

Nar, give me perma death. Otherwise how the hell can the Klingons demand vengance and restore their Houses' honour? If you never die, makes it pointless.

[rogerwroten]

Yep, they have said your ship can be destroyed.

Of course you can immediately get another ... so what what's the penalty? Who knows. The game is being "dumbed down" so much in the name of "Fun" it seems to me they are taking all the "Fun out of it.

I don't know why it is that Dev's lose sight of the fact that the challenge and risk is what makes the reward satisfying.

I mean hell, how satisfying would it be if you could just buy .... oh wait! :(

The thing is what may be fun for you might not be fun for the majority. And Cryptic will always go with what would be good for the majority. Yes even MTs. Better to lose a few and please a lot, then lose a lot to please a few.

[rogerwroten]

Yep, they have said your ship can be destroyed.

Of course you can immediately get another ... so what what's the penalty? Who knows. The game is being "dumbed down" so much in the name of "Fun" it seems to me they are taking all the "Fun out of it.

I don't know why it is that Dev's lose sight of the fact that the challenge and risk is what makes the reward satisfying.

I mean hell, how satisfying would it be if you could just buy .... oh wait! :(

For some reason my tag, Amblin isn't working so I am now the Nameless Traveller or ""

I believe it is because spock time travelled, arrived at Bognor Regis in the 1970's, dated then married my mother and created a different timeline. =)

I personally think they should have perma death.

Make it so your best BO is your new avatar, and your name goes on a plaque on the new ship maybe have a field or Rememberance memorial???

Only thing is no one wants have an Obituary like this; "Captain Ijit, fell in battle against the Stardock 112 doors during his first assignment. Cause of death, failure to understand the concept of perspective. Remembered by his brother Dougal.

Or if it isn't perma death that your carcas is fired onto a new planet along with Project Genesis. Or you're cloned from your last teleporter log. Hopefully there's no flies around at the time or it could get mesy.

Or Q does turn up and save your sorry ass as the blood seeps through your skin in the cold, near vauum of space. (No such thing as a true vaccuum).

Nar, give me perma death. Otherwise how the hell can the Klingons demand vengance and restore their Houses' honour? If you never die, makes it pointless.

LOL, I doubt you will ever see perma-death in STO. Especially sine I don't think there is a MMO out there with it.

[moessner]

I have a little question
in the game what happens when, say your ship is destroyed or you are killed
thank you

yes you can die...will it be perma death NO....you will re spawn at space station and probly have to fix ship and then back out into the action......member cryptic said the big thing is they want the game to be fun.

[DoctorX]

Yep, they have said your ship can be destroyed.

Of course you can immediately get another ... so what what's the penalty? Who knows. The game is being "dumbed down" so much in the name of "Fun" it seems to me they are taking all the "Fun out of it.

I don't know why it is that Dev's lose sight of the fact that the challenge and risk is what makes the reward satisfying.

I mean hell, how satisfying would it be if you could just buy .... oh wait! :(

Maybe if we're lucky, quality redshirts will be harder to come by if you constantly blow your ship up. I know the redshirts don't really have attributes but maybe it'll take longer to acquire a complete compliment of crew if you're that "unlucky" captain the entire academy dreads. :)

I'm not sure why everyone is annoyed with the ship respawning. It's basically the equivalent of armor in other games. We didn't need to repurchase armor, weapons, and potions every time we died in the other games. Realistic? No. Common in these types of games? Yes.

[Enlaw]

Perma death is a bad idea in an MMO..or any other game, really. "Oh YAY! The char I spent 120hrs on has just ceased to be, and I have to start from scratch! *three hours of 'Sorry, that name is in use. Pls select another' later* That's it..this MMO can kiss my butt!". It doesn't work for countless other reasons as well. Suspend disbelief a little. You do for Start Trek, right?:)

Consequences for frequent ship loss should be an aspect of the game though. In a moneyless society, what are they, though/ I'd suggesta '3 strike' system: 3 destroyed ships = demotion. And eventually, you are forced to watch as the new Red Shirts hug the walls on their first days aboard, and tremble in abject terror. Some even need to be dragged kicking and screaming aboard "Oh GOD NO! He's Captain Death!".

[Drexxus3d]

I imagine you can "set your base" so to speak so that when your ship is destroyed it will respawn there. Or perhaps you just automatically respawn at the closest available station. As stated before, when your officers or captain dies (hitpoints hit zero), they are beamed back to the ship and saved before actual real death.

[DoctorX]

Perma death is a bad idea in an MMO..or any other game, really. "Oh YAY! The char I spent 120hrs on has just ceased to be, and I have to start from scratch! *three hours of 'Sorry, that name is in use. Pls select another' later* That's it..this MMO can kiss my butt!". It doesn't work for countless other reasons as well. Suspend disbelief a little. You do for Start Trek, right?:)

Consequences for frequent ship loss should be an aspect of the game though. In a moneyless society, what are they, though/ I'd suggesta '3 strike' system: 3 destroyed ships = demotion. And eventually, you are forced to watch as the new Red Shirts hug the walls on their first days aboard, and tremble in abject terror. Some even need to be dragged kicking and screaming aboard "Oh GOD NO! He's Captain Death!".

lol
Right on.

Even though this is a moneyless economy, materials to rebuild ships over and over again are not free. Those have to be traded for, mined or gathered. So next to the crews performing below average due to intense deep rooted fear of flying with the unlucky captain, maybe he could get orders to gather more materials for ships. Sort of like being given a boring mission flying cargo. Who knows. :) They have to come up with something.

I asked this a while back. What is going to keep a player from repeatedly blowing up his ship [self destruct] when he is losing a battle or just to annoy others? There needs to be some sort of punishment for reckless command.

[Drexxus3d]

Perma death is a bad idea in an MMO..or any other game, really. "Oh YAY! The char I spent 120hrs on has just ceased to be, and I have to start from scratch! *three hours of 'Sorry, that name is in use. Pls select another' later* That's it..this MMO can kiss my butt!". It doesn't work for countless other reasons as well. Suspend disbelief a little. You do for Start Trek, right?:)

Consequences for frequent ship loss should be an aspect of the game though. In a moneyless society, what are they, though/ I'd suggesta '3 strike' system: 3 destroyed ships = demotion. And eventually, you are forced to watch as the new Red Shirts hug the walls on their first days aboard, and tremble in abject terror. Some even need to be dragged kicking and screaming aboard "Oh GOD NO! He's Captain Death!".

It's not really a bad idea, it's just not a playstyle everyone would enjoy. It may put off some people to have a character they spent a lot of time on being killed permanently and having to start over, but for others it adds a new level of excitement and caution to the game, a level of realism that you can't get in any other game.

We've all played games carelessly and recklessly, just "charging in" to a dangerous situation with a high risk of injury or death. But if there were permanent consequences to such actions, people would be much more cautious. There wouldn't be as much carelessness in the way you play because you dont want to lose your character.

The best way this could be implemented is by having a limited number of lives for your character, say 100. That way if you do die once in a while to lag or D/C related things, it doesn't really screw you over. You would have a lot of spare lives left over but once they were gone your character would cease to exist.

Like I said, that sort of thing is more niche than mainstream and wouldn't appeal to everyone, but for some it would be an exciting and refreshing change of pace from the much more carebearish style that gaming is going these days where nothing you do really matters and you can get away with being careless, lazy, and not knowing whats going on. When there is permanent penalty to playing poorly, it gives incentive to actually play better and pay more attention to what you're doing, you get much more involved and connected to your character.

And most importantly, you experience true fear which you can't in other games.

[revenantsoul]

Yep, they have said your ship can be destroyed.

Of course you can immediately get another ... so what what's the penalty? Who knows. The game is being "dumbed down" so much in the name of "Fun" it seems to me they are taking all the "Fun out of it.

I don't know why it is that Dev's lose sight of the fact that the challenge and risk is what makes the reward satisfying.

I mean hell, how satisfying would it be if you could just buy .... oh wait! :(

I have to disagree with you on this one my friend. I for one don't want to spend days/weeks/months building a ship and crew to lose it in one battle gone wrong.

[Mono75]

I think they should always beam the Captain out, right before he dies or loses his ship. If that happens often in a mission then he should get a message from the Admiral XYZ telling the Captain that he thinks, that he is incapable of commanding a ship.

[Telinous]

When dead you lose sp points or prestage or whatever perhaps a res sickness like wow or whatever. Ether way you need to get a penalty.

I hated res sickness, it was no penalty at all, I like how FFXI has xp loss on death, or eve online you loose SP and any implants you have, I honestly prefer a strong penalty to encourage players not to be stupid. Darwyn FTW

[rogerwroten]

I hated res sickness, it was no penalty at all, I like how FFXI has xp loss on death, or eve online you loose SP and any implants you have, I honestly prefer a strong penalty to encourage players not to be stupid. Darwyn FTW

The problem is, at least with my thinking, it rarely works the way you want it to. Players will still rush in, or they will hold back, because they are afraid of the death penalty, enough that they will eventually just quit because the enjoyment is gone. The stronger the death penalty the more tendency for a player to quit because of it.

[mwood1387]

I loved the death penalties in EVE. It made me want to be more recklace to see if I could get away with it and escape with my life. I launched attacks on so many ships back when I used to play it just to be a nuisance to larger ships (Hit and run ftw). But to be fair the game had open PVP which this wouldn't and losing good gear to a PVE opponent sucked (damn you police!).

[Enlaw]

I hated res sickness, it was no penalty at all, I like how FFXI has xp loss on death, or eve online you loose SP and any implants you have, I honestly prefer a strong penalty to encourage players not to be stupid. Darwyn FTW

I haven't played CoX in a while, but they had a decent penalty system also. At least at first. Xp loss, then debt if you lost it continually (died a lot). Only prob with that system is, it's easy to head out and grind that xp back up reasonably fast.

Who the heck is Darwyn? Is he DARWIN's "handi-capable" relative?

[Telinous]

I haven't played CoX in a while, but they had a decent penalty system also. At least at first. Xp loss, then debt if you lost it continually (died a lot). Only prob with that system is, it's easy to head out and grind that xp back up reasonably fast.

Who the heck is Darwyn? Is he DARWIN's "handi-capable" relative?

lol yeah I make those mistakes sometime XD Getting the xp back isnt the problem, its the lack of punishment for failure that is.

[zipper_face]

i have an idea
if the player died for some reason, then they probably are having trouble in fights. instead of removing a resource that has to be regained in a boring way or something that will make their troubling fights even harder, how about lowering the players ability to get the good stuff?
heres my idea. lets say a captain has been doing missions for a while to gain renown with a couple of factions, thereby netting him experience bonuses, extra resupply points, etc. them a battle goes wrong and his ship explodes. now his renown goes down. instead of directly weakening him, it could lowerhis renown. maybe that resupply station that was right next to a great resource farming area does not trust him enough to give him some more redshirts or expensive quantum torpedos. while this does not really weaken him, it is a drawback worth avoiding.
p.s: if you feel the need to comment on my horrid grammar, please dont.

[mwood1387]

i have an idea
if the player died for some reason, then they probably are having trouble in fights. instead of removing a resource that has to be regained in a boring way or something that will make their troubling fights even harder, how about lowering the players ability to get the good stuff?
heres my idea. lets say a captain has been doing missions for a while to gain renown with a couple of factions, thereby netting him experience bonuses, extra resupply points, etc. them a battle goes wrong and his ship explodes. now his renown goes down. instead of directly weakening him, it could lowerhis renown. maybe that resupply station that was right next to a great resource farming area does not trust him enough to give him some more redshirts or expensive quantum torpedos. while this does not really weaken him, it is a drawback worth avoiding.
p.s: if you feel the need to comment on my horrid grammar, please dont.

So what happens when you die so many times that there's no point progressing for lack of a sufficient reward?

[WinterPark1701]

The thing of it is that in the series everyone (almost always) gets beamed out at the last second, I'd have to say that in so far as penalties I would say some kind of res sickness where in your stats would be halved and as we've already established that you'll have "prestige" points which you use for promoting crew, getting more powerful and shiner equipment, I'd suggest that you could lose some prestige points for failing at your mission with out necessarily losing equipment or XP.

[zipper_face]

So what happens when you die so many times that there's no point progressing for lack of a sufficient reward?

then you are not yet ready for the high level content and must rely on low difficulty, low reward quests like the other newbies. with the added advantage of a higher level ship to help you along

[Tain]

then you are not yet ready for the high level content and must rely on low difficulty, low reward quests like the other newbies. with the added advantage of a higher level ship to help you along

Or, the far more likely scenario, they give up playing entirely.

[zipper_face]

[QUOTE=Tain;658235]Or, the far more likely scenario, they give up playing entirely.[/QUOTE
there is always that possibility, but it just seems less frustrating then sending a player who is not yet capable enough back to the same battle to get owned over and over, making them weaker after every death, IMO.

[TheMasterpiece]

More details come over time, but no perma death or losing bridge officers.

[Amblin]

The best death penalty is one that's linked to the circumstances.

If you're on a mission and you fail, the penalty is the repercussions. i.e. you die (or rescued at last minute) then the fallout of failing is your penalty. It may take the form of a sector falling to the opposition, the loss of a researcher and a potential technological upgrade. the loss of a diplomat, leading to being unable to broker peace or trade with another species? Make your sucesses and failures should shape your career.

Death penalties as in xp loss are old hat. As are stat debuffs. Personally, if you fail, you should potentially die. This should only happen if you are specatularly stupid though.

I imagine the main result of failing or being beaten will be losing your ship (could lead to catch the pigeon mission, i.e. get it back!) being left on the nearest planet. or jettisoned in an escape pod, or perhaps being left adrift in your crippled ship to limp home.

Problem is unless there is some hard coded limitations, players will not stop when you are crippled. They will almost always destroy you completely. Unless they get better 'bonuses' for capturing you (for ransom) or via their own mission objective.

ie. Platyer A is tasked to broker a trade agreement with the Norns, to accomplish this the Norms ask for 100 tons of unobtanium (or something similar). This point of the mission triggers missions for both sides. 1 for player A's side to supply the material and protect the convoy (be it NPC AI or player based), Player B now has a high priority mission to delay or hijack the convoy or get his own conveoy there quicker or broker a better offer.

This can be done via brute force, deception, bribery etc if the unobtainium is sourced via a third neutral source, the Kurns?

Just some musings.

Thinig is my suggestion is probably to different to implement as players won't 'get it', and Crytptic don't have time to implement such a dynamic mission system.

That and we won't have PVP missions (assumption). Only PVE. Unless we potentially get PVPVE???

fingers crossed.

[Nikka33]

I think the death system will be comparable to other MMOs on the market in that they will not be overly game breaking to the players. Ie. no perma death and nothing so overly done that you will beat your head into the table over one mistake.

This is opinion only, I claim nothing as fact. The game is not live yet so I cannot speak in any shape or form as such until the game is officially out as to what system they will have in place. This is just general attitudes and such I have picked up from browsing the boards.

My 2 copper on the death system.

My personal thinking is this on the death system.
I don't want the death penalty system to be such the main focus that it takes all the attention away from other qualities of the game.
I don't want one death to be so traumatic that I lose weeks of sleep over the loss of hours upon hours of game play that I had invested.
I don't enjoy losing everything I earned for one mistake.
Exp debt, having to fly back to my mission from the outpost I was sent to, having to wait hours for repairs, and having to wait for a new crew to show up plus waiting on repairs are all viable options among others I am sure the devs are working on and others have mentioned.
Any combination of that list is viable as well.

Deathpenalties should be in place, but they should never be traumatic to the player.

[Strandberg]

I have a little question
in the game what happens when, say your ship is destroyed or you are killed
thank you

Same as in other mmoprgs

You respawn and have your scripted stats reduced for a while

[ryecrash]

I'd like to see a "death" system like this:

In Space:
Your ship is disabled and beyond repair in the field. You respawn at the closest Starbase and are charged the repair costs and towing fees with the small possibility of loosing a piece of equipment. If you do loose a piece of equipment and don't have a replacement in your inventory you can acquire a basic replacement at the starbase for a price. It is added to your repair costs. You fail the mission and might have the opportunity to retry it.

On the Ground:
You are beamed to sickbay and have a temporary penalty to your stats. Personal equipment (phasers and such) may be damaged and you will have to pay to repair them. You fail the mission and might have the opportunity to retry it.

[Loekii]

Here is what Craig/Zinc said during the IGN Voon Chat IGN Vault Chat Transcript and Audio Recording (http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249) :
Q: If we are in the middle of a mission and we die or fail part of it, what happens? Do we resume at the same point or do we have a penalty for the rest of the mission or do we part with the penalty in another step in the mission?

A: It's actually perma-death and we cancel your account and you have to buy the game again.

Someone cracking up laughing in the background

Craig: Naaa that isn't it at all, we're really trying to make it so that death isn't that big of a deal, I now it sounds kind of weird but I think that the MMO industry is kind of moving beyond death as something that is really really painful. We want people to really enjoy the game experience, and experience the game, I think that if death and dying was a gigantic part of the Star Trek universe than we would focus a lot more on making sure that there was a huge penalty to it, but we really do want you to pick up where you left off.. get back in, get that sense of achievement, you know maybe there will be some damage to your ship systems, some of your items may degrade a little bit.. but really it is kind of get right back in and go.

Source: http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249

[tom_riker01]

In my opinion, since you're technically playing the entire crew and not just one character, when your captain gets blown away, he/she is unavailable for X number of hours/days while they recoup in sickbay. However, you can still play as the next ranking officer...i.e. the first officer. So your skills will be a little different, but you will get your captain back and can still play through the mission.

As for space, when your ship is in a battle that it cannot win and you cannot retreat successfully, and we've already decided that losing one's ship is out of the question (because too many people whined that it's not fun), then it seems to me that the only logical compromise is upon being destroyed in battle, your ship respawns at the nearest safe spacestation with ALL of her systems either severely damaged or else destroyed entirely. To me this seems realistic, as your ship somehow managed to get away, but only by the barest stroke of luck. And as a result, you and your crew will have to make several repairs before flying back into battle. To me, that would be fun and challenging. I DON'T want to respawn at full health with full weapons and fly right back into battle again, i.e. Planetside/Star Wars Galaxies.

Death is NOT supposd to be fun, it is supposed to be avoided, ideally at all costs. No quest/mission is truely unwinnable, you just have to find the right approach/tactics.

Fortunately, it sounds like Cryptic is doing something similar for the space combat, but it sounds like the ground death penalty is going to suck like planetsides. Run into a room, die. Wait 5 seconds, run back into the room, die again. Wait 10 seconds, run back into the room, stub toe, die. Wait 15 seconds....