"The Tribbler Maneuver"

[Tribbler]

This may have been brought up before, but I don't know how complex the discussion was or if it was even an in-game option.

I would think that a list of "maneuvers" available in a pop-up screen would be available on your HUD that lists a predetermined set of maneuvers made by the player.

For instance:

As you are flying about in your Miranda, you are confronted by a Romulan Warbird. You are outmatched!

Your first reaction is to run, but would you do an about turn, shields full on the rear of your ship, and race away in a straight line? Would you bank left or right 90 degrees and zig zag? Go straight at him, front shields to full, then as you pass him divert shields to the rear full, using his slower turning speed to gain distance?

These are actions that in the long run are not complex when you are attacked by a greatly superior enemy.

But what if the match was even and no matter what, the enemy was after you? Many times there have been the "Picard Maneuver" (Enterprise VS Stargazer) and the "Ryker Maneuver" (Enterprise VS Borg Cube).

To do this prior to flying in space in your new Miranda, you could set up a list of maneuvers and we will call this one "The Tribbler Maneuver".

When confronted by a Klingon "Vorcha" class ship coming at you dead ahead at impulse speed .75, .

HUD (Heads Up Display) You click Tribbler Maneuver from the menu.

Programming Tribbler Maneuver =

#1 Turn 90 degrees port, speed .25 impulse, shields full to starboard, (within firing range)fire starboard phasers full

#2 Increase speed to .50 impulse, turn 180 degrees, shields full port, fire port phasers full

Manually slow speed to .10 impulse, the Klingon ship overtakes and passes you, now you line up on his tail and divert all power to the front shields, fire front phasers full

Now all this was done automatically and all you had to do was press the #1, #2 key to position yourself in behind him.

Each key was pressed at your choice time to implement that maneuver.

Your ship will have taken damage sure, but as your ship is doing the maneuvering, changing speeds and firing, you are sending repair teams to the damaged areas instead of manually making the maneuvers, setting speeds, and charging weapons, and then firing them.

A number of maneuvers can be done and you will have choices to choose the maneuver that fits best for the fight that you are about to have.

You should be able to independently, chain maneuvers together, in case the opponent stops before getting into firing range etc.

Just a thought, not knowing how engagements will turn out, and something that each player could customize their own ship for Fight Maneuvers.

[dyvimtorm]

Sounds like fun, basically an easily programmable macro function. Hard to say how much utility at this point, but certainly could be a useful thing to have, and fun to name your own maneuvers, lol. I'll sign.

Tribbler maneuver should shut down all weapons and shields but generate multiple copies of the ship, right?

[Tribbler]

Sounds like fun, basically an easily programmable macro function. Hard to say how much utility at this point, but certainly could be a useful thing to have, and fun to name your own maneuvers, lol. I'll sign.

Tribbler maneuver should shut down all weapons and shields but generate multiple copies of the ship, right?

OMG! I'll have to sign that, and lets call that one the "Tribbler Infinity Manuever".

Can't see---Laughing so hard!!!

[Casta_Rasa]

If you could customize your own evasive maneuvers, you wouldn't have all the same. You could still have the specific ones like you see within the movies and tv shows but having your own would allow for some interesting pvp battles.

So im in for any and all evasive maneuvers in STO!; )

[Chopa1]

I would agree....How many times did we hear "evasive manuver beta"? I would also agree that because it is you making the call on the desired maneuver that it would be legal.

I would worry about add ons that would be created to subvert this nice idea.

[Greenomen]

Sounds like fun, basically an easily programmable macro function. Hard to say how much utility at this point, but certainly could be a useful thing to have, and fun to name your own maneuvers, lol. I'll sign.

Tribbler maneuver should shut down all weapons and shields but generate multiple copies of the ship, right?

OMG! I'll have to sign that, and lets call that one the "Tribbler Infinity Manuever".

Can't see---Laughing so hard!!!

Sounds good to me. LOL

I agree. Pre-defined maneuver would be a nice thing to have.

[Aerelleus]

Sounds like fun, basically an easily programmable macro function. Hard to say how much utility at this point, but certainly could be a useful thing to have, and fun to name your own maneuvers, lol. I'll sign.

Tribbler maneuver should shut down all weapons and shields but generate multiple copies of the ship, right?


LMAO!! Once again Mr bester you make me laugh.


The manuver should also include having multiple images of the ship just holographically appearing and cooing as well.

[Tribbler]

I see everyone in agreement. I don't know if it should be a player made macro, but a predetermined parameter made by Cryptic to only allow a predefined set of rules such as:

Select Name: "Tribbler Maneuver"

Please Select Choice:

Bind to which key? (F1-F12)

Speed: (Stop, 1/4 impulse, 1/2 impulse, 3/4 impulse, Full impulse)
Move: (Left, Forward, Right)
Shield: (Left, Front, Right, Aft)
Shield Strength: (Minimum, Medium, Maximum)
Phaser: (#1 [Left] #2 [Left frontal] #3 [Front] etc.)
Phaser Strength: (Minimum, Medium, Maximum)
Pitch (Up, Down)
Photon Torpedo (Front, Aft)

Once you make your selections, then anytime you choose your maneuver, these parameters would take place in sequence, maybe even by pressing the space bar to set the timing of each sequence.

[Videofox]

From the title, I pictured a Federation ship keeping a supply of Tribbles on board to beam over to enemy Klingons the moment they lose a shield. That's a Montgomery Scott-worthy tactic if I ever heard one.

I'll buy a box.

[Resistance]

I don't know about having maneuvers you can macro and implement at any time.....

It would be much better in my opinion to be able to learn special maneuvers by doing certain missions or getting enough +prestige or training or something, then being able to tell your navigation officer to implement a maneuver.

[Tribbler]

I don't know about having maneuvers you can macro and implement at any time.....

It would be much better in my opinion to be able to learn special maneuvers by doing certain missions or getting enough +prestige or training or something, then being able to tell your navigation officer to implement a maneuver.

I played games that had player made macros---

You could never get them to work with time and key bindings, and they take way too long imho to figure and not work correctly because you had a colon instead of a semi-colon. not enough gameplay!

[funky_jesus]

But what if the match was even and no matter what, the enemy was after you? Many times there have been the "Picard Maneuver" (Enterprise VS Stargazer) and the "Ryker Maneuver" (Enterprise VS Borg Cube).

what ryker maneuver is this i dont recall him doing a manouver against the borg, i thought one was named after him in the issurection movie.

[Chopa1]

Earning them could have merrits if you got some maneuvers of note. Like a quick warp....very short distance, strainght line -used effectively may put you behind your target. Advanced versions place a small imprint of the user ship for 1.5 seconds to confuse the enemy.

maybe a dumb idea.:cool: Was just brain storming

[Arsinoe]

Give the basics when we start in the game and let us learn more along the way, ofc i'd like to see classics like the Riker and Picard ones included. :)

[Tribbler]

what ryker maneuver is this i dont recall him doing a manouver against the borg, i thought one was named after him in the issurection movie.

It was right after Picard was assimilated, they seperated the saucer section. Ryker issued the command to Ens. Crusher.

[funky_jesus]

It was right after Picard was assimilated, they seperated the saucer section. Ryker issued the command to Ens. Crusher.

was that the bit where he sent an energy beam towards the borg cube or what it where he made the saucer section do a sort of anti matter spray?

[Arsinoe]

There is the unofficial Riker maneuver he used in Insurrection to. (Taking in gass, dump it infront of enemy ship and ignite. :D

[Peteromir]

wasnt the picard manover in the series a flashback, where picard believing he was commanding the stargazer in the battle where he originally used it?

[jhem99]

In this game we'll invent our own maneuvers.

[Alaktyrr]

It was right after Picard was assimilated, they seperated the saucer section. Ryker issued the command to Ens. Crusher.Yes, the orders that were given were Evasive Pattern Riker Alpha, followed by Evasive Pattern Riker Beta. So, obviously Captains can make up their own flight maneuvers.

The episode was The Best of Both Worlds Part 2. And yes; it was when they separated the saucer and stardrive sections, fired the antimatter spread, and "borgnapped" Locutus with a shuttle. One of my favorite episodes ever.

[Tribbler]

wasnt the picard manover in the series a flashback, where picard believing he was commanding the stargazer in the battle where he originally used it?

Yes the Picard maneuver was a coined phrase by Starfleet. The Stargazer Captained by Picard dropped from warp at point blank range and fired on the attacking ship saving his ship and crew.

[Tribbler]

was that the bit where he sent an energy beam towards the borg cube or what it where he made the saucer section do a sort of anti matter spray?

Yep, that would be the one.

[Peteromir]

Yes the Picard maneuver was a coined phrase by Starfleet. The Stargazer Captained by Picard dropped from warp at point blank range and fired on the attacking ship saving his ship and crew.

I'm awar of the manover, was just not sure of how it actually appeared in the shows.

You've simplified it as far as I was aware. I always thought That the Stargazer was already engaged but at a distance where the larger ships extra weapons could be brought to bear so Picard used warp speed to close the gap to point blank range, where the larger ship could bring few weapons to bear and the Stargazer could not miss. The implication was that such a short warp jump was the truely difficult part, an allowed the closing to be achieved.

The only shorter use of warp speed in a named manover i recall was in the invasion books I recall and involved collapsing the warp bubble before it finished forming to aid in a turn.

[Tribbler]

I'm awar of the manover, was just not sure of how it actually appeared in the shows.

You've simplified it as far as I was aware. I always thought That the Stargazer was already engaged but at a distance where the larger ships extra weapons could be brought to bear so Picard used warp speed to close the gap to point blank range, where the larger ship could bring few weapons to bear and the Stargazer could not miss. The implication was that such a short warp jump was the truely difficult part, an allowed the closing to be achieved.

The only shorter use of warp speed in a named manover i recall was in the invasion books I recall and involved collapsing the warp bubble before it finished forming to aid in a turn.

It was and was close to losing the battle until Picard was able to formulate the equation of stopping at point blank range while in battle in the same sector.

Imagine jumping to warp and out of warp and not passing through the ship you are fighting? Will 1000th of a second and not a millionth of a second more or less would be difficult to compute? :D

[thefreshjedi]

A footnote to canonical history: There was no defense for the Picard Manuever.

I hope we get to use it in-game.

On-topic: I would love to see a macro interface that was finally user-friendly. I don't know how many games I've played that had overly-complicated macro interfaces that required you to have an insight into programming to use.

The only exception to this was Final Fantasy XI, the macros there were very user friendly, and even had a /pause script where you could make it wait for x amount of seconds before running the rest of the script. Some game do not allow for pausing to sync multiple lines of code together to perform multiple actions. Unfortunately. I guess they're afraid of the farm-bots out there taking advantage of the system.

I suppose Macroing needs a forum topic of it's own: How will it work? What will be its limitations? Can we use it to perform complicated maneuvers, etc?

-avery

[Tribbler]

A footnote to canonical history: There was no defense for the Picard Manuever.

I hope we get to use it in-game.

On-topic: I would love to see a macro interface that was finally user-friendly. I don't know how many games I've played that had overly-complicated macro interfaces that required you to have an insight into programming to use.

The only exception to this was Final Fantasy XI, the macros there were very user friendly, and even had a /pause script where you could make it wait for x amount of seconds before running the rest of the script. Some game do not allow for pausing to sync multiple lines of code together to perform multiple actions. Unfortunately. I guess they're afraid of the farm-bots out there taking advantage of the system.

I suppose Macroing needs a forum topic of it's own: How will it work? What will be its limitations? Can we use it to perform complicated maneuvers, etc?

-avery

If they don't have an on-screen, user friendly "Maneuver Maker", some bright comp savvy person will come up with one.

How I hate the trial and errors of macros. I'm with you Fresh.

[Alaktyrr]

Actually, the Picard Maneuver, was used to trick a Ferengi ship only equipped with light speed sensors, the quick jump into and out of warp made it appear that there were 2 ships, allowing the Stargazer to fire before they knew which "ship" to target.

More about it on Memory-Alpha (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Picard_Maneuver)

[thefreshjedi]

Actually, the Picard Maneuver, was used to trick a Ferengi ship only equipped with light speed sensors, the quick jump into and out of warp made it appear that there were 2 ships, allowing the Stargazer to fire before they knew which "ship" to target.

More about it on Memory-Alpha (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Picard_Maneuver)

True, but there was an episode, (I believe the same episode in question), where Riker asks Data if there is any know defense against the Picard Manuever, to which data responds "None sir". But then again, Data was able to figure out a way around it, *edit... Data calculated the exact point of re-entry for the warp-manuever and was able to successfully launch a tractor beam to repel the attack.

-avery

[Vuk]

Interesting that folks are for complex manuver names and setting these things up , but you mention true 3-D manuvers and people start saying " They don't want it to become a sim " or this excuse or that, blah , blah , blah . Anyone else see the irony in the this thread ?

[RE-Kirk]

Posting the Macro/Maneuvers into a shared space on the server would be cool

That way you can Name those maneuvers and others in your fleet can use/share them

Crafting with a useful application - tactics

Your rep goes up the more people successfully use your named maneuver, and your macro can be rated simply by use and in-combat results
One caveat being that a qualifying named macro should have to have a minimum number of actions.
"Drop down and reverse direction!" - Lur of Omicron Persei 8

[Tribbler]

Interesting that folks are for complex manuver names and setting these things up , but you mention true 3-D manuvers and people start saying " They don't want it to become a sim " or this excuse or that, blah , blah , blah . Anyone else see the irony in the this thread ?

What do you mean Vuk, Irony? I don't see it.

[Vuk]

The irony is that what you're suggesting could and would be so much richer an experience if you indeed had full 3-D movement . Just find it ironic that it's linked , that's all . That creative part of the game ( the OP ) is definitely already nerfed however. This would be a reason that roll thread went 115 pages , why people argued for it, before they closed it. Incidently I'm all for the idea and would envisage this as part of the game. The reality sadly may be very different.

[Tribbler]

The irony is that what you're suggesting could and would be so much richer an experience if you indeed had full 3-D movement . Just find it ironic that it's linked , that's all . That creative part of the game ( the OP ) is definitely already nerfed however. This would be a reason that roll thread went 115 pages , why people argued for it, before they closed it. Incidently I'm all for the idea and would envisage this as part of the game. The reality sadly may be very different.

Well there is no vertical movement, but there is definately depth on the horizontal axis which allows for maneuvers to take place on the horizontal plane. Yes the full immersion of 3D play is not there, but there is 50% at least.

[Solomon_Kane]

Wow, I am really disappointed with this maneuver... I thought it would including transporting a ton of tribbles onto your enemy ship... where they would be no tribble at all.

[Tribbler]

Wow, I am really disappointed with this maneuver... I thought it would including transporting a ton of tribbles onto your enemy ship... where they would be no tribble at all.

LOL, thats the Tribbler 2 Maneuver, just fingers were tired of typing :D

[Xenoshaft]

The really cool thing is that they told us that we would fly our own ship in combat. Also they said PVP is very fun even for those people who dont normally like to play pvp games.

[Colm]

Well there is no vertical movement, but there is definately depth on the horizontal axis which allows for maneuvers to take place on the horizontal plane. Yes the full immersion of 3D play is not there, but there is 50% at least.
Actually 75%, dimension speaking, incuding time of course. So it is 3D, just not the usual 3.
Anyway, love the idea, where do I sign ?

[Alaktyrr]

Well there is no vertical movement, but there is definately depth on the horizontal axis which allows for maneuvers to take place on the horizontal plane. Yes the full immersion of 3D play is not there, but there is 50% at least.Correct me if I'm wrong here, it has happened before. But I can move my ship up and down; left and right; forward and backward, correct? How is that not movement in 3 dimensions? No where have I seen anything indicating that vertical movement is not possible. True rolls are not, but that does not mean 3-D movement isn't.

[Marytha]

The really cool thing is that they told us that we would fly our own ship in combat. Also they said PVP is very fun even for those people who dont normally like to play pvp games.

I'm certain PvP is fun when everyone knows each other or is part of the same community. They aren't anonymous, people become jerks more so when they can remain anonymous. I love playing all sorta of games against people I know, it's the behavior shift when you don't the other people that causes problems, i believe.

Marytha

[Tribbler]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, it has happened before. But I can move my ship up and down; left and right; forward and backward, correct? How is that not movement in 3 dimensions? No where have I seen anything indicating that vertical movement is not possible. True rolls are not, but that does not mean 3-D movement isn't.

In essence, you can tilt a bit and move towards above and below, but you can't actually look down on a ship from above or look up at it's beely from below.

It has been said that ity is similar to ST Legacy, where as the closer you get to other ships, the playing field becomes level.

[Alaktyrr]

In essence, you can tilt a bit and move towards above and below, but you can't actually look down on a ship from above or look up at it's beely from below.

It has been said that ity is similar to ST Legacy, where as the closer you get to other ships, the playing field becomes level.I played Legacy, but I don't remember Legacy being anything like that, even at close range to another ship. True in Legacy, space wasn't very big, but it didn't force you on level with anyone. I know for sure I was firing at Romulans from above and below. Also I have a hard time believing that what you said is the case in this game because of a quote from the June 16th Dev Chat:

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Loekii> In 3D Space view (not mapview) What is the Ceiling/floor Height Size/Scale? Will it be large, like say a ship at the 'Ceiling' will not be able to even see a ship directly below them at the 'Floor' (ie its like +1000' tall), or is it much smaller (like 100' tall).

<CrypticZinc> Huge. Although we're in space - it's also a video game and that comes with certain limitations. : )
<CrypticZinc> There are "edges" to the maps.
<CrypticZinc> However, your example is great. If you're at the "top" and I'm at the "bottom" - we can't detect each other. THAT big.
<CrypticZinc> (Well, unless we're on the same team - then you'll know I'm there.)

[Tribbler]

I played Legacy, but I don't remember Legacy being anything like that, even at close range to another ship. True in Legacy, space wasn't very big, but it didn't force you on level with anyone. I know for sure I was firing at Romulans from above and below. Also I have a hard time believing that what you said is the case in this game because of a quote from the June 16th Dev Chat:

Your right. I recently re-installed Legacy (believe it or not) to try to get some memory of what it was like and fully remember why i stopped playing it.

You have to manipulate your mouse to see above and below, but your ship cannot take a hard dive or anything like that.

You have to gradually get to the same level as the enemy if you want to fight on level ground per se.

[Alaktyrr]

You have to manipulate your mouse to see above and below, but your ship cannot take a hard dive or anything like that.Yes, it can. Yes, you can use the free look camera by moving the mouse; but you can also pitch up with the S key and down with the W key. After a couple seconds, you'll find yourself going completely vertical, either up or down. Sometimes when actually engaged in a fight it's hard to tell because the camera locks on to your target, or simply because they are trying to out-maneuver you at the same time you're trying to do it to them. I just hopped into a campaign mission before typing this, and before anything else had a chance to happen; I attempted a dive and a climb (without touching my mouse). Now if you don't move the camera, you'll find yourself looking at the dorsal side (if you do a climb) or ventral side (if in a dive) of your ship. Then when returning to level flight you will find that things (other ships, planets, etc.) are either above or below you.

[Tribbler]

Yes, it can. Yes, you can use the free look camera by moving the mouse; but you can also pitch up with the S key and down with the W key. After a couple seconds, you'll find yourself going completely vertical, either up or down. Sometimes when actually engaged in a fight it's hard to tell because the camera locks on to your target, or simply because they are trying to out-maneuver you at the same time you're trying to do it to them. I just hopped into a campaign mission before typing this, and before anything else had a chance to happen; I attempted a dive and a climb (without touching my mouse). Now if you don't move the camera, you'll find yourself looking at the dorsal side (if you do a climb) or ventral side (if in a dive) of your ship. Then when returning to level flight you will find that things (other ships, planets, etc.) are either above or below you.

Sorry, it looks to me as if you are only diving at about 45-70 degrees but not a full 90. Am I not getting something?

[Alaktyrr]

Sorry, it looks to me as if you are only diving at about 45-70 degrees but not a full 180. Am I not getting something?Alright, went back and looked again. You are right, it isn't a complete 180 degree difference between a climb and a dive. If I had to estimate, I would say it's between 150 and 160 degrees. At which point it becomes a discussion about perspective, because personally, I consider a 75 - 80 degree climb or dive to be rather steep. :D

[Tribbler]

Alright, went back and looked again. You are right, it isn't a complete 180 degree difference between a climb and a dive. If I had to estimate, I would say it's between 150 and 160 degrees. At which point it becomes a discussion about perspective, because personally, I consider a 75 - 80 degree climb or dive to be rather steep. :D

yeah, I know, its perspective. So even with that, you could do a "maneuver" based on going down aa you move then coming up to the same heighth say z- 500 meters, then z+ 500 meters later in the maneuver after you have adjusted your speeds in the "Maneuver" box.

[Alaktyrr]

yeah, I know, its perspective. So even with that, you could do a "maneuver" based on going down aa you move then coming up to the same heighth say z- 500 meters, then z+ 500 meters later in the maneuver after you have adjusted your speeds in the "Maneuver" box.Sounds good to me, but going back to one of your earlier posts, how does that mean that you can't look down on another ship from above, or fire at their ventral (belly) side from below?

[Tribbler]

Sounds good to me, but going back to one of your earlier posts, how does that mean that you can't look down on another ship from above, or fire at their ventral (belly) side from below?

From what was mentioned in the IRC dev chat, there would only be a 4 sided shield, which means that your horizontal line of your ship is shielded but the 5th (top) and 6th (bottom) shields are not there, meaning you cannot fire on them until you have leveled with them.

In playing Legacy, it is difficult to make speed changes, keeping your target locked and keeping them within your screen, turning and elevating towrds the other ship, when you look down, sometimes your own ships saucer, nacelles etc. block your view.

[Alaktyrr]

From what was mentioned in the IRC dev chat, there would only be a 4 sided shield, which means that your horizontal line of your ship is shielded but the 5th (top) and 6th (bottom) shields are not there, meaning you cannot fire on them until you have leveled with them.

In playing Legacy, it is difficult to make speed changes, keeping your target locked and keeping them within your screen, turning and elevating towards the other ship, when you look down, sometimes your own ships saucer, nacelles etc. block your view.I must have overlooked that part of the chat. But even with 4 sectioned shields, I don't believe that eliminates the ability to fire from above or below. I would just picture the shields being in a "pie" shape then. Where if you hit the aft portion of the ship either from above, level, or below; then the aft shields would take the damage.

[Tribbler]

I must have overlooked that part of the chat. But even with 4 sectioned shields, I don't believe that eliminates the ability to fire from above or below. I would just picture the shields being in a "pie" shape then. Where if you hit the aft portion of the ship either from above, level, or below; then the aft shields would take the damage.

Good thought! No-one really knows exactly the coverage of a 4 sided shield. Keep up with the chats and new info releases from Cryptic. We may soon get our answer. :)