Rogue Captains need one more option

[Blodveard]

I still find it difficult to understand why many MMOs limit the players to a two-faction system. Here in STO it is Federation vs. Klingon; in WOW it is Alliance vs. Horde; in Star Wars the Old Republic it will be Republic vs Sith Empire.

There must be room for a neutral faction in these games. This is particularly true for Star Trek in my opinion.

What faction would Harry Mudd fit into? Lord Garth? Cyrano Jones?

These were just a few of the characters that operated outside of the federation, or at the very least, outside of the federation's rules.

There needs to be the freedom for players to operate on the fringe of the two-factions, outside of a faction (neutral), or completely outside of both factions (universal outlaw).

How can this work? A faction standings system can be used. Based on a character's standing, certain options will be open or closed to them. If we maintain a neutral standing with both Federation and Klingon, we could then trade and do missions with both. If our faction standing raises high enough, then various services and assitance will open up from that faction. The opposite is true as well, the lower your standing, the more services from that faction will be closed to you.

If you are outlawed by both main factions you will have to rely on other players for all of your needs.

[Warston]

I think a system like that would work on a more sandbox based game. Having 2 factions lets you pick your side and when you encounter other players they are either your enemies or your foes.

Having neutral enemies kinda throws pvp for a loop because you have to have a whole rule set for those players. Are they attackable by anybody? Who can they attack? In which sectors of space can they attack those people? Even if they are allied with a faction being a neutral or rogue type of captain wouldn't that also mean that they could betray that faction making tricking "allied" players much easier and most likely causing disrupted not very much fun game play.

[Dr._Sskarno]

I still find it difficult to understand why many MMOs limit the players to a two-faction system. Here in STO it is Federation vs. Klingon; in WOW it is Alliance vs. Horde; in Star Wars the Old Republic it will be Republic vs Sith Empire.

There must be room for a neutral faction in these games. This is particularly true for Star Trek in my opinion.

What faction would Harry Mudd fit into? Lord Garth? Cyrano Jones?

These were just a few of the characters that operated outside of the federation, or at the very least, outside of the federation's rules.

There needs to be the freedom for players to operate on the fringe of the two-factions, outside of a faction (neutral), or completely outside of both factions (universal outlaw).

How can this work? A faction standings system can be used. Based on a character's standing, certain options will be open or closed to them. If we maintain a neutral standing with both Federation and Klingon, we could then trade and do missions with both. If our faction standing raises high enough, then various services and assitance will open up from that faction. The opposite is true as well, the lower your standing, the more services from that faction will be closed to you.

If you are outlawed by both main factions you will have to rely on other players for all of your needs.

There will be more factions in future expansions, just not at Launch...I encourage everyone to read the "what we know about STO " thread BEFORE posting a thread.

[Jack596]

Not all MMO's have only 2 factions.
For example DAOC (Dark Age Of Camelot) had 3 factions and it was very versitile in PVP.
When one of 3 factions attacked the 2nd, you as 3rd faction had the chance to attack the first faction behind their backs. very nice game that was.

[Jack596]

double post...

[BalzOnYer4Head]

Because Starfleet or the IKS would just allow someone to take one of their wessels and claim it as their own.
Relax, you'll be able to play an annoying character soon enough (Feringi?) just not at launch.

[knightofhyrule730]

Because Starfleet or the IKS would just allow someone to take one of their wessels and claim it as their own.
Relax, you'll be able to play an annoying character soon enough (Feringi?) just not at launch.

Ferengi are part of the Federation during STO.

[pacejohntom]

I still find it difficult to understand why many MMOs limit the players to a two-faction system. Here in STO it is Federation vs. Klingon; in WOW it is Alliance vs. Horde; in Star Wars the Old Republic it will be Republic vs Sith Empire.

There must be room for a neutral faction in these games. This is particularly true for Star Trek in my opinion.

What faction would Harry Mudd fit into? Lord Garth? Cyrano Jones?

These were just a few of the characters that operated outside of the federation, or at the very least, outside of the federation's rules.

There needs to be the freedom for players to operate on the fringe of the two-factions, outside of a faction (neutral), or completely outside of both factions (universal outlaw).

How can this work? A faction standings system can be used. Based on a character's standing, certain options will be open or closed to them. If we maintain a neutral standing with both Federation and Klingon, we could then trade and do missions with both. If our faction standing raises high enough, then various services and assitance will open up from that faction. The opposite is true as well, the lower your standing, the more services from that faction will be closed to you.

If you are outlawed by both main factions you will have to rely on other players for all of your needs.

So, does someone who is 'neutral' still get a Fed/Klingon ship? Or should a neutral faction have their own line of ships?

[Resistance]

Like the others have said, it would really take a lot of development time to invest in being able to incorporate rogue captains into the game, especiallly when so few people would want to be one in the first place. Perhaps it could happen in a future expansion, but not when the game is released.

[Sark]

I realize it's kind of a design concern and what people look for in MMOs, but I'll admit that conceptually I'm a little bit bothered by the idea of STO having a traditional faction system in place; it just seems ever so slightly counter to the feel of the universe. Not that we shouldn't be able to meet on the field of battle and blow each other to Sto-Vo-Kor, but I'm hesitant about it being as simple as "attackable" and "not attackable".

[LordDave]

A neutral faction would have to have their own set of missions equal to both of the other factions. You can't have them mooch off the other guys because that would unbalance everything.

And if they don't have the time to put in the Romulan faction, then a neutral faction isn't in the time set either.

[RookActual]

I don't believe Cryptic is going to invest the time in developing a 'neutral faction' for that every so often player who absolutely has to do something that's not relevant to the franchise.

[erriku]

I don't believe Cryptic is going to invest the time in developing a 'neutral faction' for that every so often player who absolutely has to do something that's not relevant to the franchise.

I would say that a rogue band of rebels that steals a few hundred ships is relevant to any faction. If they had the ability to be a nonaffiliated faction, you could be sure that should I play one of those, my primary goal would be to upset the balance of one or both factions anyway I could. Up to and including stealing ships. There is a high demand for Empire and Federation vessels and technology, of that I could be certain.

[RookActual]

I would say that a rogue band of rebels that steals a few hundred ships is relevant to any faction. If they had the ability to be a nonaffiliated faction, you could be sure that should I play one of those, my primary goal would be to upset the balance of one or both factions anyway I could. Up to and including stealing ships. There is a high demand for Empire and Federation vessels and technology, of that I could be certain.

It's not relevant to Trek, yes, of course the threat would be relevant....but it's not what Trek or the STO storyline seems to be about. The Maquis, in their prime, were never that powerful. They even had several Starfleet Captains, but never a Starfleet vessel....they used peregrines, which even then were weak. If you want rebellions and guerilla warfare, that's what Star Wars is for.

[JonlyBonly]

Maquis anyone?...or a similar organization. Just a thought.

[RookActual]

Maquis anyone?...or a similar organization. Just a thought.

No need for the Maquis....the Cardassians can barely feed themselves, much less occupy former Federation territories.

[erriku]

It's not relevant to Trek, yes, of course the threat would be relevant....but it's not what Trek or the STO storyline seems to be about. The Maquis, in their prime, were never that powerful. They even had several Starfleet Captains, but never a Starfleet vessel....they used peregrines, which even then were weak. If you want rebellions and guerilla warfare, that's what Star Wars is for.

But I do not care for Star Wars. There are plenty of civilizations within Federation space that are not Federation. It is implausible to visualize someone doing something significant without representing a particular faction? For some reason, the name Nero comes to mind.

[RookActual]

But I do not care for Star Wars. There are plenty of civilizations within Federation space that are not Federation. It is implausible to visualize someone doing something significant without representing a particular faction? For some reason, the name Nero comes to mind.

Rogue factions, in Trek, don't last very long....and while I don't enjoy the logic....the series is not about rebellions. That's just about every other scifi series out there.

[LordDave]

I would say that a rogue band of rebels that steals a few hundred ships is relevant to any faction. If they had the ability to be a nonaffiliated faction, you could be sure that should I play one of those, my primary goal would be to upset the balance of one or both factions anyway I could. Up to and including stealing ships. There is a high demand for Empire and Federation vessels and technology, of that I could be certain.

So your enemies of both factions and everyone else has a "kill on sight" standing order. Oh and 90% of all explored planets are unfriendly to you.

Yeah.... that'll work REALLY well for gameplay... :rolleyes:

[erriku]

So your enemies of both factions and everyone else has a "kill on sight" standing order. Oh and 90% of all explored planets are unfriendly to you.

Yeah.... that'll work REALLY well for gameplay... :rolleyes:

Wow. Did that make you feel superior? How do you figure any of that?

[LordDave]

Wow. Did that make you feel superior? How do you figure any of that?

Any attack by any member of this Neutral Faction on any of the two major factions will result a skirmish. Once it happens often, war breaks out.
So that means no PVP for Neutral Faction. Unless you think a neutral faction should be able to fight anyone without them hating you.

Any military help to a faction will undoubtedly invoke the wrath of the other faction, unless you think that the Klingons don't care if someone who says they aren't Federation helps a federation planet. Or a Federations ship.
So there goes doing quests for the other faction. Which leaves having to do solo, non Federation or Klingon missions.
Which brings up back to our point: It takes too much time to make a whole faction. They're probably just barely going to get the two out before launch.

And no, it doesn't make me feel superior. For that, I need a challenge.

[erriku]

And no, it doesn't make me feel superior. For that, I need a challenge.

I'm not really surprised that in your attempt to insult me, you contradicted yourself and did nothing to prove implied superiority. Ho-hum what a baffoon.

[renderpix]

Why not have the neutral faction be a of civilian content? Not enemies to everyone unless they make themselves so. They would be ideal for trade across borders, Cryptic did say there would be an economy and most economies are based by civilian trade mostly.

As for their ships, make them of a civilian class. For those that want to be a headach or a pain in the backside allow older decomissioned military ships (JunkYard aquired) or provided as the same as with other factions. But I would say a neutral faction would never have Federation warships hence the StarFleet guarding over new and old tech.

For missions they would not be sepcific just with different result options or close to the Federations with diplomacy for trade agreements. As were rank is concerned in a civilian fleet your a captain of your own vessel what else would you need?

A faction without the pressures of gaining rank or status. just playing the left out parts of most games. Be a privateer, miner, freight hauler or even a pirate.

[erriku]

Why not have the neutral faction be a of civilian content? Not enemies to everyone unless they make themselves so. They would be ideal for trade across borders, Cryptic did say there would be an economy and most economies are based by civilian trade mostly.

As for their ships, make them of a civilian class. For those that want to be a headach or a pain in the backside allow older decomissioned military ships (JunkYard aquired) or provided as the same as with other factions. But I would say a neutral faction would never have Federation warships hence the StarFleet guarding over new and old tech.

For missions they would not be sepcific just with different result options or close to the Federations with diplomacy for trade agreements. As were rank is concerned in a civilian fleet your a captain of your own vessel what else would you need?

A faction without the pressures of gaining rank or status. just playing the left out parts of most games. Be a privateer, miner, freight hauler or even a pirate.

Very nice.

[LordDave]

I'm not really surprised that in your attempt to insult me, you contradicted yourself and did nothing to prove implied superiority. Ho-hum what a baffoon.

Insult you?
How did I do that? I was saying that thinking of why a neutral faction isn't in game now is no real challenge for me. A challenge for me is trying to figure out why a printer won't print to a specific machine only when that machine is in a specific spot. Regardless of port or driver used. And when 4 other brand new but the same model machines don't work BUT they work when they try to print via the same method in another part of the building.

And please explain where I contradicted myself.


Why not have the neutral faction be a of civilian content? Not enemies to everyone unless they make themselves so. They would be ideal for trade across borders, Cryptic did say there would be an economy and most economies are based by civilian trade mostly.

As for their ships, make them of a civilian class. For those that want to be a headach or a pain in the backside allow older decomissioned military ships (JunkYard aquired) or provided as the same as with other factions. But I would say a neutral faction would never have Federation warships hence the StarFleet guarding over new and old tech.

For missions they would not be sepcific just with different result options or close to the Federations with diplomacy for trade agreements. As were rank is concerned in a civilian fleet your a captain of your own vessel what else would you need?

A faction without the pressures of gaining rank or status. just playing the left out parts of most games. Be a privateer, miner, freight hauler or even a pirate.
Again, this falls under the "needs lots of content" which requires time to make.

Make no mistake, I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's not something any company can do in the span of a weekend.

[renderpix]

I'm not really surprised that in your attempt to insult me, you contradicted yourself and did nothing to prove implied superiority. Ho-hum what a baffoon.

Insult you?
How did I do that? I was saying that thinking of why a neutral faction isn't in game now is no real challenge for me. A challenge for me is trying to figure out why a printer won't print to a specific machine only when that machine is in a specific spot. Regardless of port or driver used. And when 4 other brand new but the same model machines don't work BUT they work when they try to print via the same method in another part of the building.

And please explain where I contradicted myself.


Alright guys you disagree, let's be nice to each other here. This stuff can muck up a thread.


Again, this falls under the "needs lots of content" which requires time to make.

Make no mistake, I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's not something any company can do in the span of a weekend.

Sure not in a week end. Maybe something that could be in a later update like the other faction are suggested to be installed. Who knows it might work well, but it could be a real mess. I just wonder of all of the forum suggestions could be incorperated into this game, what a wonderful nightmare.

Just an idea to attract those that are solid PvE non-Pvper or I hate to use the term but Carebears. Even tho it has been said that if you don't want PvP you won't see it.

Like the OP with the suggestion of Mudd, he traded with both the Klingon and Federation. As well in other episodes like the one with the beauty drug and found himself introuble with the miners that Kirk had to settle. There's two ways into a mission, what a code nightmare:D

But all in all I'd rather see the other factions that could be involved with factional wars, but then again a civilian faction is something that has always existed in Star Trek and should not be overlooked

[JMD10222]

I would rather see the Romulans then the Dominion added before a "Neutral Faction".;)

[LordDave]

Sure not in a week end. Maybe something that could be in a later update like the other faction are suggested to be installed. Who knows it might work well, but it could be a real mess. I just wonder of all of the forum suggestions could be incorperated into this game, what a wonderful nightmare.

Just an idea to attract those that are solid PvE non-Pvper or I hate to use the term but Carebears. Even tho it has been said that if you don't want PvP you won't see it.

Like the OP with the suggestion of Mudd, he traded with both the Klingon and Federation. As well in other episodes like the one with the beauty drug and found himself introuble with the miners that Kirk had to settle. There's two ways into a mission, what a code nightmare:D

But all in all I'd rather see the other factions that could be involved with factional wars, but then again a civilian faction is something that has always existed in Star Trek and should not be overlooked

Oh I agree. But I think it's a lower priority. Sure I'd like everyone to be happy, but I don't see another faction happening until after launch.

[Blodveard]

I can't help but think that most of the posters here missed my mention of having faction standings.

A "neutral" character would be able to run missions for either side, as long as his/her faction standing does not go so low for one side. Once the faction standing drops to a certain point, that faction will no longer support the "offender" with misisons or market place.

So the "neutral" character would have to maintain a delicate balance. This in itself might be interesting and it could generate its own storylines.

An "outlaw" character would be wanted by both factions. This does not mean that this character would be without support (as it was suggested in a previous post). These outlaws, most likley pirates, would have to band together and have "clean" alts or second accounts to help supply and support their pirate band.

If you think this is not possible, you have obviously not played EVE Online.

The professions or ideologues that would gravitate to a "neutral" faction:

Mercenaries
Bounty Hunters
Pirates
Smugglers
Revolutionaries
Anarchists

If you argue that this does not have a place in Star Trek, but is more in tune with Star Wars, I disagree. It is only logical that in such a vast universe, with literally thousands of inhabited planets, and billions upon billions of people, the Star Trek universe MUST have all of the members I listed above.

[Blodveard]

Why not have the neutral faction be a of civilian content? Not enemies to everyone unless they make themselves so. They would be ideal for trade across borders, Cryptic did say there would be an economy and most economies are based by civilian trade mostly.

As for their ships, make them of a civilian class. For those that want to be a headach or a pain in the backside allow older decomissioned military ships (JunkYard aquired) or provided as the same as with other factions. But I would say a neutral faction would never have Federation warships hence the StarFleet guarding over new and old tech.

For missions they would not be sepcific just with different result options or close to the Federations with diplomacy for trade agreements. As were rank is concerned in a civilian fleet your a captain of your own vessel what else would you need?

A faction without the pressures of gaining rank or status. just playing the left out parts of most games. Be a privateer, miner, freight hauler or even a pirate.

There are some really good ideas in this post.....

Civilian Faction, Civilian Class ships are just two of the main ones.

[RookActual]

This is sounding like an EvE thread in disguise at this point. I highly doubt, and equally hope, they don't start some civilian/neutral catch-all in a Star Trek game. How many episodes did any of the Captains command a civilian vessel? I can understand why they need the Klingons, as an opposing faction...perhaps later the Romulans and whoever else. You have to have multiple angles in an MMO, so that's fine. However, this is Star Trek, not 'Space Corporation in the Stars.'....Except for maybe a few Klingon heavy episodes, though, every single episode of Star Trek was, essentially, from the bridge of a United Federation of Planets Starfleet Starship. Not some privateer or merchantman.

[Velociraptor]

Naturally, even in the two faction system there would already be neutral quests that could be done by either faction. Neutral planets and neutral species that will be friendly or not friendly to both factions. Is it too much to have a system where you build reputation with either group? the more neutral you are the more missions you can do for both groups. If you start in starfleet as a starfleet officer you get pretty high starting with starfleet, and low starting with the empire. It wouldn't be building a separate faction it would just have a more open system for the players IN their own factions.

I know someone suggested something similar to this earlier, there was a problem with PVP? In WOW you can set up yourself to not be attacked unless you attack someone who is set to be attacked, I always thought it was a weird system. Perhaps STO should use a version of it that fits the vastness of space better. If you're in an area and you don't want to fight just warp away? If they're doing a neutral quest you are also trying to do perhaps it's a partial instance design, you can see them there but not interact with them.

WOW has a system similar to the variable reputation with factions like I mentioned above only it's for their minor (non-player) factions would it be too much of a stretch to extend this to the main factions?

I don't mean to restate something that was already said, honestly I don't understand PVP too well.

[Velociraptor]

I know I quote WOW methods a lot, but seriously it has one of the largest fan bases in the history of MMO's. You can argue all you want about its merits, and why it's not the best but it is one that had the most players so if you're looking to get more people playing STO then look to the MMO kings ;)

[RookActual]

I know I quote WOW methods a lot, but seriously it has one of the largest fan bases in the history of MMO's. You can argue all you want about its merits, and why it's not the best but it is one that had the most players so if you're looking to get more people playing STO then look to the MMO kings ;)

LOL. ....yet your signature says 'Do Not Conform'....sorry, couldn't allow that to rest.

[Kriss]

This is sounding like an EvE thread in disguise at this point. I highly doubt, and equally hope, they don't start some civilian/neutral catch-all in a Star Trek game. How many episodes did any of the Captains command a civilian vessel? I can understand why they need the Klingons, as an opposing faction...perhaps later the Romulans and whoever else. You have to have multiple angles in an MMO, so that's fine. However, this is Star Trek, not 'Space Corporation in the Stars.'....Except for maybe a few Klingon heavy episodes, though, every single episode of Star Trek was, essentially, from the bridge of a United Federation of Planets Starfleet Starship. Not some privateer or merchantman.

Who really CARES what we saw or didn't see in episodes or movies. It's already FACT that they will have to stray off the straight and narrow path you trekkie fanatics would want out of the game, in order to MAKE it a GAME. So what if you didn't see it in an episode? If we stuck to your logic, then all you would see in game would be something off a TV show. So why the heck pay another 50 bucks to play that when you can go watch it for free? .............

GAMES, especially with MMOs, is about CONTENT. I don't really care if they have to make it up but CONTENT is what sells games and what keeps them alive. If they want to add a civilian faction with a total different rule set than the Feds or Klingons, then SO be it! I'm pretty sure you would be surprised to see how many people would go the neutral route. But then again, it's not YOUR vision of Star Trek, so to hell with it!

Cryptic will do what they see fit to make money. And I hope to God they think outside the box on this one because every other P.O.S. ST game has been, well....a P.O.S! Make this game well and add all the content they can into it and it will succeed! The only thing they need to do is keep it within the ST universe and the possibilities that could be. For this game, thats all they need.

Do us all a favor and get over yourself already.

[RookActual]

Who really CARES what we saw or didn't see in episodes or movies. It's already FACT that they will have to stray off the straight and narrow path you trekkie fanatics would want out of the game, in order to MAKE it a GAME. So what if you didn't see it in an episode? If we stuck to your logic, then all you would see in game would be something off a TV show. So why the heck pay another 50 bucks to play that when you can go watch it for free? .............

GAMES, especially with MMOs, is about CONTENT. I don't really care if they have to make it up but CONTENT is what sells games and what keeps them alive. If they want to add a civilian faction with a total different rule set than the Feds or Klingons, then SO be it! I'm pretty sure you would be surprised to see how many people would go the neutral route. But then again, it's not YOUR vision of Star Trek, so to hell with it!

Cryptic will do what they see fit to make money. And I hope to God they think outside the box on this one because every other P.O.S. ST game has been, well....a P.O.S! Make this game well and add all the content they can into it and it will succeed! The only thing they need to do is keep it within the ST universe and the possibilities that could be. For this game, thats all they need.

Do us all a favor and get over yourself already.

Rage issues. Sorry I don't agree with you and that upsets you so much. You don't mean for me 'to get over myself', you just want me to have the same opinion as you do. Which is understandable, some people are not strong enough to find validity in their own opinions without absolute agreement from their community. I don't mind that you disagree with me, but I do mind that you have a clear lack of respect for diverse or conflicting opinions.

I never brought up my vision of Trek. It's not my perspective, it's the perspective given to us by the entire series. You can argue many opinions of what Star Trek is, but you can not argue that the main cast was always in Starfleet uniform, aside from Kira Nerys, Odo and Neelix, who were all allies.

The irony in this is that for ten years I ran an RPG based around the very principle of a successful revolution against the Federation. So trust me, my 'view' of what Trek is or is not has never been fully represented on these forums.

Who really CARES what we saw or didn't see in episodes or movies. I may put this in my signature. It is quite hilarious.

[Loekii]

Again, this falls under the "needs lots of content" which requires time to make.

Make no mistake, I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's not something any company can do in the span of a weekend.

I agree.

It would need a lot of content, and is not something they could simply 'toss in'.

[erriku]

And please explain where I contradicted myself.

Okay I will make it short and sweet to keep the thread from being derailed. If you meant to critisize me at any given point in this discussion, my previous posts stand. If not, I misunderstood your meaning and I withdraw my previous posts. That is just about it.

[erriku]

I can't help but think that most of the posters here missed my mention of having faction standings.

A "neutral" character would be able to run missions for either side, as long as his/her faction standing does not go so low for one side. Once the faction standing drops to a certain point, that faction will no longer support the "offender" with misisons or market place.

So the "neutral" character would have to maintain a delicate balance. This in itself might be interesting and it could generate its own storylines.

An "outlaw" character would be wanted by both factions. This does not mean that this character would be without support (as it was suggested in a previous post). These outlaws, most likley pirates, would have to band together and have "clean" alts or second accounts to help supply and support their pirate band.

If you think this is not possible, you have obviously not played EVE Online.

The professions or ideologues that would gravitate to a "neutral" faction:

Mercenaries
Bounty Hunters
Pirates
Smugglers
Revolutionaries
Anarchists

If you argue that this does not have a place in Star Trek, but is more in tune with Star Wars, I disagree. It is only logical that in such a vast universe, with literally thousands of inhabited planets, and billions upon billions of people, the Star Trek universe MUST have all of the members I listed above.

This is exactly what I was going for. Thank you for hitting that point perfectly.

[erriku]

This is sounding like an EvE thread in disguise at this point. I highly doubt, and equally hope, they don't start some civilian/neutral catch-all in a Star Trek game. How many episodes did any of the Captains command a civilian vessel? I can understand why they need the Klingons, as an opposing faction...perhaps later the Romulans and whoever else. You have to have multiple angles in an MMO, so that's fine. However, this is Star Trek, not 'Space Corporation in the Stars.'....Except for maybe a few Klingon heavy episodes, though, every single episode of Star Trek was, essentially, from the bridge of a United Federation of Planets Starfleet Starship. Not some privateer or merchantman.

I can certainly see your point. I would like to counter with a question though; How many episodes did any of the Captain deal with civilian vessels in some way or another?

[RookActual]

I can certainly see your point. I would like to counter with a question though; How many episodes did any of the Captain deal with civilian vessels in some way or another?

I have never disagreed that there were civilians. There were civilians aboard the Enterprise for it's entire cruise. There have been civilians present in every capacity, from legitimate to otherwise. I only argue that, as these elements have never been the perspective of the series, they should not receive that treatment in the game, either. Logical exceptions applying to the major Empires, of course.

I'd like to also thank you for ability to be civil in this disagreement.

[erriku]

I have never disagreed that there were civilians. There were civilians aboard the Enterprise for it's entire cruise. There have been civilians present in every capacity, from legitimate to otherwise. I only argue that, as these elements have never been the perspective of the series, they should not receive that treatment in the game, either. Logical exceptions applying to the major Empires, of course.

I'd like to also thank you for ability to be civil in this disagreement.

Okay. I see what you are saying and I admit that I agree with you that as far as Star Trek goes, the perspective has always been from a Federation crew's point of view. But I do not think it would hurt to broaden the horizons a little bit. And you are very welcome. I only bite when I feel I have been bitten first. Lol.

[RookActual]

Okay. I see what you are saying and I admit that I agree with you that as far as Star Trek goes, the perspective has always been from a Federation crew's point of view. But I do not think it would hurt to broaden the horizons a little bit. And you are very welcome. I only bite when I feel I have been bitten first. Lol.

I just have difficulty seeing where a 'neutral' faction or 'civilian' element really has it's place outside of being the NPCs and content they will most likely be.

[erriku]

I just have difficulty seeing where a 'neutral' faction or 'civilian' element really has it's place outside of being the NPCs and content they will most likely be.

As far as a lasting relevance in the game, you are right in that there isn't any. But during my years in MMO's I have often felt it fun to have an alt that was without significant purpose and was more or less a really fun, pointless character. I feel that having say, a smuggler as an alt in this game would suit that purpose. Someone that plays on both sides of the field, deals with both factions and even occasionally spurn one or both sides.

[knightofhyrule730]

ive been thinking about this topic for a long time before i typed up my input.

Looking at the current conversation about Civillian ships, I can say, that It directly reminds me of the Neutral players from Star Wars Galaxies. In SWG, the Neuts could not partcipate in Faction PVP (Rebels v Imperials), but at the same time, they did not have to worry about going into cities and getting hassled by Faction NPCs or Faction'd players. (note: I played before the combat upgrade thing. I dont know how it works now) Anyway. I actually liked that Idea. However, I don't feel that works in STO. In SWG you could team hop with enough work, which entire guilds did in that game. In STO I highly doubt that the klingons would be accepting of a former Federation captain.

Now, as for rogue captains. I really dont know. The idea is interesting, but i feel that youd end up trapping the rogue captains by themselves (and with each other). I guess if they wanted to "rejoin" the Federation, they might be able to, but I doubt the klingons would be so accepting.

So yeah...idk. its a good idea, but i feel that it limits the players a bit too much.

[RookActual]

As far as a lasting relevance in the game, you are right in that there isn't any. But during my years in MMO's I have often felt it fun to have an alt that was without significant purpose and was more or less a really fun, pointless character. I feel that having say, a smuggler as an alt in this game would suit that purpose. Someone that plays on both sides of the field, deals with both factions and even occasionally spurn one or both sides.

It would be difficult for Cryptic to implement any factor in this license just because of the 'fun factor' though, I would imagine. Not sure I'm comfortable with that, but the launch of this game will likely be as important to the franchise as the recent movie. So I have a feeling Paramount is not exactly standing back and watching. I'm certain they are having quite a deal of correspondence. I could be very wrong, but I doubt it.

Of course, as best I can tell, the only people responsible for the future of Trek right now would be Cryptic, as no one else is really on the clock.

[renderpix]

I can't help but think that most of the posters here missed my mention of having faction standings.

A "neutral" character would be able to run missions for either side, as long as his/her faction standing does not go so low for one side. Once the faction standing drops to a certain point, that faction will no longer support the "offender" with misisons or market place.

So the "neutral" character would have to maintain a delicate balance. This in itself might be interesting and it could generate its own storylines.

An "outlaw" character would be wanted by both factions. This does not mean that this character would be without support (as it was suggested in a previous post). These outlaws, most likley pirates, would have to band together and have "clean" alts or second accounts to help supply and support their pirate band.

If you think this is not possible, you have obviously not played EVE Online.

The professions or ideologues that would gravitate to a "neutral" faction:

Mercenaries
Bounty Hunters
Pirates
Smugglers
Revolutionaries
Anarchists

If you argue that this does not have a place in Star Trek, but is more in tune with Star Wars, I disagree. It is only logical that in such a vast universe, with literally thousands of inhabited planets, and billions upon billions of people, the Star Trek universe MUST have all of the members I listed above.

STO should not have factions standings, this really is a reference to Eve-Online's mechanics as you mentioned and I have played that game far too long. Not disagreeing with you but I believe that there is another system that could be done that would be better and more realistic where the dynamics of faction come into play and where there given time there will be more than 3 or two as it is now.

A neutral character should also have limitations, example a Klingon that is neutral should never be able to run military mission for the Federation while hostile thowards KDF or Romulans when that faction exists.

Oh I agree. But I think it's a lower priority. Sure I'd like everyone to be happy, but I don't see another faction happening until after launch.

I think that given time everyone will get what they want. But I don't think anyone suggested that this would happen at launch. But in any case I believe that Cryptic has already built into their code many options for expanding on multi factions. Face it, if STO stays Federation against Klingons it will become a very boring game.

But what I think will be funny is if at launch there is an addition of another faction or it is announced before launch That Romulans will be playable, Their are as many Romulan ships in the Screenshots are there are Klingon. Be it they are for mission content but the ships are designed.

It will or can never happen is at most the start of a bet that can be lost. :D

[Blodveard]

Now, as for rogue captains. I really dont know. The idea is interesting, but i feel that youd end up trapping the rogue captains by themselves (and with each other). I guess if they wanted to "rejoin" the Federation, they might be able to, but I doubt the klingons would be so accepting.

So yeah...idk. its a good idea, but i feel that it limits the players a bit too much.

In my thoughts when writing this topic / thread, I mostly had Lord Garth as my model. Harry Mudd and Cyano Jones also came to mind (yes, I'm more of an Original Series fan).

My definition of a "rogue captain" is not one who switches sides. A "rogue captain" would be someone who defies Star Fleet Command or the Klingon equivelent, and strikes out on their own. Prime Directive.....who cares? Patrol some neutral zone....ponderous!

I forget where I read it, but a real life pirate once described what the sea and a ship meant......"Freedom." Very simple concept to understand. Give me a ship and a galaxy to explore, that is freedom. I see a better ship than what i have, and I can command it and my crew and I can take it, that is freedom.

If piracy is not possible, smuggling will do just fine. If that can't be done, mercenary work will be fine also. For me, playing characters that are slightly to the darker side of human nature are what I enjoy most. Nothing pure evil, just tainted. This is why I would start out my career as a Star Fleet officer, the taint will be that much more pronounced.

[erriku]

It would be difficult for Cryptic to implement any factor in this license just because of the 'fun factor' though, I would imagine. Not sure I'm comfortable with that, but the launch of this game will likely be as important to the franchise as the recent movie. So I have a feeling Paramount is not exactly standing back and watching. I'm certain they are having quite a deal of correspondence. I could be very wrong, but I doubt it.

Of course, as best I can tell, the only people responsible for the future of Trek right now would be Cryptic, as no one else is really on the clock.

No one else is on the clock for the Prime universe anyway. The gears have already started turning for JJ's universe and it is a runaway train now. I am curious if the STO game will be considered canon to the established Star Trek universe as much as the established Star Trek universe is canon to STO. I think it should be personally.

[knightofhyrule730]

In my thoughts when writing this topic / thread, I mostly had Lord Garth as my model. Harry Mudd and Cyano Jones also came to mind (yes, I'm more of an Original Series fan).

My definition of a "rogue captain" is not one who switches sides. A "rogue captain" would be someone who defies Star Fleet Command or the Klingon equivelent, and strikes out on their own. Prime Directive.....who cares? Patrol some neutral zone....ponderous!

I forget where I read it, but a real life pirate once described what the sea and a ship meant......"Freedom." Very simple concept to understand. Give me a ship and a galaxy to explore, that is freedom. I see a better ship than what i have, and I can command it and my crew and I can take it, that is freedom.

If piracy is not possible, smuggling will do just fine. If that can't be done, mercenary work will be fine also. For me, playing characters that are slightly to the darker side of human nature are what I enjoy most. Nothing pure evil, just tainted. This is why I would start out my career as a Star Fleet officer, the taint will be that much more pronounced.

hmm...for some reason i never thought about piracy as a rogue captain. not sure how much QQing would happen if they were allowed to steal from other players...it is something to think about.

also, who is this lord garth people keep talking about? I know the other two (mudd & jones)

[LordDave]

Okay I will make it short and sweet to keep the thread from being derailed. If you meant to critisize me at any given point in this discussion, my previous posts stand. If not, I misunderstood your meaning and I withdraw my previous posts. That is just about it.
Sorry if my tone was not clear. I meant no insult. I don't know you and you have not spoken against me.

When I debate, I don't say that someone's idea is bad or stupid (normally. I've seen some crazy thoughts though) but I do try to reason as to why it's not in launch. Everything is possible in a computer, it just takes time.

[TruthSeer]

IMO if they implement a freelance faction it should be one of (if not) the last faction to be implemented. They should have the other factions and species established within the game and then have the rogue faction have *official* access to all of the species.

Also give them access to rogue style variants of some of the other faction's ships along with unique ones for the faction. The variants, while similar, would still be obviously and easily identified as a rogue variant.

*Official meaning recognized by the game. As opposed to, for example, playing as a Klingon on the Federation side where you'd have to make one with the species creator.

[Blodveard]

also, who is this lord garth people keep talking about? I know the other two (mudd & jones)

"Fleet Captain Garth of Izar, a famous starship captain and one of Kirk's personal heroes. Garth's crew had mutinied against him when he had gone insane; the result of terrible injuries he endured on a tragic rescue mission. Garth also has a unique ability to shapeshift, taking whatever guise he wishes. This ability was taught to him by a race of shapeshifters on the planet Antos (and was intended to heal injuries suffered during the mission referenced above, Garth later taught himself how to shapeshift); which was also the planet Garth tried to attack before his crew went against his orders and took him into custody." - wikipedia

"Lord" Garth is one of my favorite characters from the original series. Episode: Whom Gods Destroy, is particularly funny because Spock never actually refers to Garth as "Lord", but instead tries to have a logical conversation with Garth. I guess Vulcans never heard the expression "Never argue with a fool, because no one can tell you apart." Most likely Spock was just trying to rile Garth up, so he would make a msitake.

Garth is a great example of a "rogue" captain, as I defined it in my previous post.