Gangway!

[RookActual]

There was something I noticed in the new movie that impressed me in the very beginning. A small touch I hope Cryptic applies once you are able to explore the interior of your vessel or other areas populated with NPC Junior Officers. The Gangway!

If you were paying enough attention at the opening scenes of the new film, when Captain Robau was both ingressing the bridge and then later moving to the shuttle bay, crewmen would press their backs to the bulkhead, go to the position of attention and wait for the Captain to pass. This is called giving the 'gangway' or just gangway. I hope to see it incorporated, as the small strokes are the ones that really bring the immersion along.

[perfect_nosferatu]

That'd be brilliant, and not that difficult to do IMHO, but it really didn't happen in the universe we're used to, and neither did saluting, but perhaps it might be there we just don't see it on the shows. I LOVE that idea!

[RookActual]

That'd be brilliant, and not that difficult to do IMHO, but it really didn't happen in the universe we're used to, and neither did saluting, but perhaps it might be there we just don't see it on the shows. I LOVE that idea!

Most directors get saluting wrong anyways. Some have them saluting everything in sight, at the wrong times, or even in the wrong uniform configuration. Marines, for example, do not salute without their cover on(hat), and never wear a cover indoors, unless 'under - arms', meaning they're wearing a duty belt(which typically means a Marine is on watch and therefore there is a sidearm attached to that belt.)...and we never salute in a tactical environment, only in the rear, or in garrison. Yet, the salute is such a familiar military custom that writers and directors misuse it a lot, without understanding the proper application of that custom.

There are right times and wrong times to salute, and typically, aboard a ship, saluting is only done ceremonially. However, going to the position of attention and greeting an officer as they pass is never optional. Besides, it seems the salute has gone to the wayside in the Federation, but I do believe the courtesy of the gangway should still apply. If they outrank you, they deserve that respect...

[Napalm006]

It would be nice to see more military discipline aboard star ships. I remember Janeway going down to a certain deck that didnt get visited often by officers and the crew members showing discipline, and to further point out I think its rather sad that Cadets have shown more discipline then actual officers ever have in the shows. Standing at attention for a sec for senior officers is easy to have in the game and wouldnt be difficult to have AI NPCs do.

[perfect_nosferatu]

Most directors get saluting wrong anyways. Some have them saluting everything in sight, at the wrong times, or even in the wrong uniform configuration. Marines, for example, do not salute without their cover on(hat), and never wear a cover indoors, unless 'under - arms', meaning they're wearing a duty belt(which typically means a Marine is on watch and therefore there is a sidearm attached to that belt.)...and we never salute in a tactical environment, only in the rear, or in garrison. Yet, the salute is such a familiar military custom that writers and directors misuse it a lot, without understanding the proper application of that custom.

There are right times and wrong times to salute, and typically, aboard a ship, saluting is only done ceremonially. However, going to the position of attention and greeting an officer as they pass is never optional. Besides, it seems the salute has gone to the wayside in the Federation, but I do believe the courtesy of the gangway should still apply. If they outrank you, they deserve that respect...

I won't go into this all, I am a Teacher by profession, but have been in the RAF full time as an officer for four years (I left about 3 months ago), and am now in the RAF Auxiliaries, so it's rather different for us, we don't salute a higher rank for the fact they have a higher rank, we salute the Queen or the Monarch because they decided to provide that person with a higher or better commission than them.

Also, the custom of saluting is also very different, but the whole idea of the Hats is almost the same, if the Officer has their hat with the Squadron or RAF Cap Badge on it on their person (whether they're wearing it or not) a Salute must be given.

As to the gangway thing, it's different obviously in the RAF as this seems to be a Naval thing, so i won't say i'm an expert on that, but that's just a different view for you!

[Allerka]

Most directors get saluting wrong anyways.
Not only the situations in which they salute, but how the actors perform the salutes as well. One of the worst offenders I can recall was an anime where one nation's salute was literally identical to Benny Hill's. :D

But yeah, something like the gangway (always wondered where the term came from, heh) in STO would be neat, and I could see it starting to return, given Starfleet gearing up for war once again.

[RookActual]

I won't go into this all, I am a Teacher by profession, but have been in the RAF full time as an officer for four years (I left about 3 months ago), and am now in the RAF Auxiliaries, so it's rather different for us, we don't salute a higher rank for the fact they have a higher rank, we salute the Queen or the Monarch because they decided to provide that person with a higher or better commission than them.

Also, the custom of saluting is also very different, but the whole idea of the Hats is almost the same, if the Officer has their hat with the Squadron or RAF Cap Badge on it on their person (whether they're wearing it or not) a Salute must be given.

As to the gangway thing, it's different obviously in the RAF as this seems to be a Naval thing, so i won't say i'm an expert on that, but that's just a different view for you!

Oh, I definitely acknowledge that there are different prescriptions for rendering respect. Even amongst our(US) Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force the customs are different. Being that our customs and traditions more closely bear a Naval standard, though, I can see why Starfleet doesn't utilize the salute any more. Based in Naval tradition, there was practically nowhere a Starfleet officer could render a salute. However, going to the position of attention for a senior officer is usually standard even in a more relaxed discipline setting such as the US Air Force.

[LockeFP]

First off, I would remind ya'll that in TOS, Rodenberry's idea was to create a future like a "wagon-train to the stars". Having salutes and all of that military doctrine would not have made sense on TOS. It didn't fit then, because no one wanted to see a show about another military-like future. As a culture, US Americans were fairly sick of that kind of thinking, and Star Trek gave them a way to view a future where we weren't at war with the Soviets, Vietnam was just another place on Earth, and the galaxy was wide-open and waiting.

Fast-forward a couple of decades. TNG focuses more on the military side of things, but that was because no one felt bad about being a little more military-minded. But the idea of exploration for explorations sake was still there. But it began to ebb in the later seasons, opting more for a stronger military presence. I attribute that directly to the death of the Great Bird of the Galaxy.

DS9. I'm not even sure that I need to say much here, but it definitely went off the reservation in terms of military doctrine and procedure. Even going so far as to bring in "Captain on deck!" when Sisko would walk onto the bridge. In the movies and TOS, this was reserved strictly for the first time the captain would show up, or with extremely young crew members.

I'm not going to go into the other series's . . .

But I would like to remind everyone that our traditions in the military would be considerably different than those of 23rd century starships. For all we know, saluting every time you see a captain is what they do. After all, they didn't do it to anyone else: just the captain's of the Kelvin and Enterprise.

[RookActual]

But I would like to remind everyone that our traditions in the military would be considerably different than those of 23rd century starships. For all we know, saluting every time you see a captain is what they do. After all, they didn't do it to anyone else: just the captain's of the Kelvin and Enterprise.

A lot of this conversation has been directed towards saluting, which I think we all agree, is pretty much nonexistent in Star Trek. Giving the gangway, however, has been witnessed now, albeit in a timeline 'alternate' to the one we'll experience at launch. I would almost say it had an extra condition, though. Perhaps at the green-alert status, such customs as gangway are much more relaxed. However, at elevated status, when a greater deal of efficiency is required, this custom may go into effect.

[ParkerHayden]

It'd probably something to choose in your ship's customization. I've noticed that many officers get tired of being saluted everywhere they go, at some point.

[RookActual]

It'd probably something to choose in your ship's customization. I've noticed that many officers get tired of being saluted everywhere they go, at some point.

Saluted, yes, but I've never seen one not enjoy having as many people as possible stay out of their way en route to chow. Again, there typically few opportunities to render a salute aboard a ship anyways, in fact, usually only during a ceremony or when boarding or disembarking when you salute both the National Ensign(Flag) and the Officer of the Deck, in different orders depending on whether you're coming or going.

[47Wasps]

I really wouldn't want to see a feature like that added to regular gameplay.
It seems out of place for the time period,considering Starfleet doesn't have any policies regarding salutes or gangways from ENT to VOY.

Now,I would like that to be a captains decision,and that at a certain rank,a player can set his preferences for those under his or her command. Every captain has a different command style,so it'd be nice to be able to order your crew to certain ship-specific regulations,in this case,ones originating in the military by having an "Options" Menu dedicated to what you want your crew to do.



Also, in there is a Mirror Universe expansion,military protocols like that would work nicely.

[RookActual]

Also, in there is a Mirror Universe expansion,military protocols like that would work nicely.

You mean the PvP expansion!

[billybob442]

Most directors get saluting wrong anyways. Some have them saluting everything in sight, at the wrong times, or even in the wrong uniform configuration. Marines, for example, do not salute without their cover on(hat), and never wear a cover indoors, unless 'under - arms', meaning they're wearing a duty belt(which typically means a Marine is on watch and therefore there is a sidearm attached to that belt.)...and we never salute in a tactical environment, only in the rear, or in garrison. Yet, the salute is such a familiar military custom that writers and directors misuse it a lot, without understanding the proper application of that custom.

There are right times and wrong times to salute, and typically, aboard a ship, saluting is only done ceremonially. However, going to the position of attention and greeting an officer as they pass is never optional. Besides, it seems the salute has gone to the wayside in the Federation, but I do believe the courtesy of the gangway should still apply. If they outrank you, they deserve that respect...

More importantly you need to get out of a senior officer's way because he has bigger fish to fry than you. If a Starfleet bridge officer comes running down a corridor it's not to get the last blueberry muffin in the mess. No, its because someone's planet's about to take it in a very sensitive place.

[funky_jesus]

A lot of this conversation has been directed towards saluting, which I think we all agree, is pretty much nonexistent in Star Trek. Giving the gangway, however, has been witnessed now, albeit in a timeline 'alternate' to the one we'll experience at launch. I would almost say it had an extra condition, though. Perhaps at the green-alert status, such customs as gangway are much more relaxed. However, at elevated status, when a greater deal of efficiency is required, this custom may go into effect.

surely it would be the other way round becausee in red alert everyone will be too busy trying to save the ship to do the gangway or am i just being silly

[Napalm006]

surely it would be the other way round becausee in red alert everyone will be too busy trying to save the ship to do the gangway or am i just being silly

It depends on the situation and where it occurs on the ship. ie like the new Star Trek movie.

[billybob442]

surely it would be the other way round becausee in red alert everyone will be too busy trying to save the ship to do the gangway or am i just being silly

No, I think this is where it would matter most. The highest ranking guys on the ship will have the most important jobs. A red alert situation is exactly the time when they need to get those jobs done as fast as possible, so everyone needs to clear out of their way and let them through.

[PigUp]

TNG era corridors always seemed quite wide, and sparsely occupied even during red alert. I don't see any need for the "gangway" custom unless, for some reason, the hallway was overly crowded.

[Cormoran]

If they do salutes at least one npc on every ship must salute like Rimmer.

Rimmer Salutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMFU_qwnbOo)

[pacejohntom]

So, what would a mulit-cultural Federation salute look like anyway?

Think about all the different traditions of Earth, and how some things (thumbs up, middle finger etc.) mean completly different things in different countries.

Now apply that to the Federation, who has dozens of species. Maybe Starfleet doed not use a salute so as to not offend a certain species/culture.

Just me brainstorming!

[pacejohntom]

No, I think this is where it would matter most. The highest ranking guys on the ship will have the most important jobs. A red alert situation is exactly the time when they need to get those jobs done as fast as possible, so everyone needs to clear out of their way and let them through.

I think the gangway should be used more out of respect for rank/chain of command, not because of a more important job.

One thing that is definitly unrealistic about the TV shows/movies is that the Senior staff have all the problems/solutions/most important tasks to perform. In a real starship, this would not be the case. But whern you are directing a TV show, you gotta give the stars the lines and plot devices.

[RookActual]

I think the gangway should be used more out of respect for rank/chain of command, not because of a more important job.


It really is a mixture of both.

I wish I hadn't used saltuing as an example for how customs and courtesies can be different.....as I think we can all agree, saluting does not occur aboard a Federation vessel.

[ParkerHayden]

So long as there's an "at ease" command to dismiss it, I'm alright. After all, I don't want to walk into the mess hall to converse with my friends with all my crewmembers standing at attention.

[RookActual]

So long as there's an "at ease" command to dismiss it, I'm alright. After all, I don't want to walk into the mess hall to converse with my friends with all my crewmembers standing at attention.

Well, this is why officers have an officer's mess...there are a lot of situations that is not appropriate to go to the position of attention. It's not conducive to interrupt a crewman when they're laboring away at something important. That's why I would limit it to the corridors, anyways, as just a neat way for NPCs to not block my danged way.

[Allerka]

If they do salutes at least one npc on every ship must salute like Rimmer.

Rimmer Salutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMFU_qwnbOo)
Wow, that was awesome. I REALLY need to watch that show in its entirety some time...


That's why I would limit it to the corridors, anyways, as just a neat way for NPCs to not block my danged way.
Agreed. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just something subtle like that. I'd rather have that than me bolting down a corridor ghosting through my crew like in most games. :P

[billybob442]

Well, this is why officers have an officer's mess...there are a lot of situations that is not appropriate to go to the position of attention. It's not conducive to interrupt a crewman when they're laboring away at something important. That's why I would limit it to the corridors, anyways, as just a neat way for NPCs to not block my danged way.

From a game viewpoint this is probably the best argument for the gangway so far... so that NPC's aren't clogging up the halls that the PC's need. I imagine that 99% there'd be room enough to maneuver around them but sooner or later there's gonna be a situation where your own guys are in the road simply because modern artificial intelligence is not always so intelligent. Just a limitation of the state of the technology. There's quite a few times in other games I wished I could order my help to just move aside.

[RookActual]

From a game viewpoint this is probably the best argument for the gangway so far... so that NPC's aren't clogging up the halls that the PC's need. I imagine that 99% there'd be room enough to maneuver around them but sooner or later there's gonna be a situation where your own guys are in the road simply because modern artificial intelligence is not always so intelligent. Just a limitation of the state of the technology. There's quite a few times in other games I wished I could order my help to just move aside.

LOL, whats funny is I didn't realize I left this out of the OP until just now, seeing as it was my entire intent all along. :o

[Falin]

this discussion is moot, there are no interiors at launch, theyre may nto be any interiors at all eer, so there is no reason to debate how NPC's will react to you on a ship.


Oh and BTW, on ENT they did do gangway a few times when the captain was in a rush, usually when the ship was on hightened alert.

[Ora]

this discussion is moot, there are no interiors at launch, theyre may nto be any interiors at all eer, so there is no reason to debate how NPC's will react to you on a ship.


Since STO is still in developement and we have so little information about whats in and what isnt, nearly every topic on this forum is based on speculation. Better to make syuggestions now before something is hard coded and can never be changed.

Besides that, there will be interiors in game at launch though only for some missions, not just for us to wander around. Having friendly NPCs get out of the way has always been something I for one have always looked for