Too much micromanagement for an MMO???

[BillytheCrayon]

This quote is from a separate topic.
Nope, no bridge function at launch.
Combat is very difficult from the bridge anyway. Especially since you, the player, will be controlling everything.

I'm hoping it's not too much micro management.

It's not easy to do every bit of the navigation tactical and evasion manouvers, managing speed, target which vessel to attack, target the sub system to attack on that vessel, attack it with every weapon you use, manage shields to reinforce, control power managements, conducting sensor scans and sweeps, and managing communications with other ships in the area or in your fleet all at the same time.

I mean that's what helmsman, tactical, communications, and science officers are for arent they???

If we do have to micro manage every single department at the same time, on the fly, in combat, with no way of automating any of these functions, then this game is gonna be a pain to play.

[Dr._Sskarno]

I wouldnt get worried about what a forum member says, its the DEVs that count.

[BillytheCrayon]

I wouldnt get worried about what a forum member says, its the DEVs that count.

that's who i'm hoping this post gets through to. hoping to get some clarification from a dev

[raldar]

I really doubt it's going to be that diffacult. Cryptic is going to want to reach a large audience and if the game is overly complicated combatwise then they will lose a great number of players. The learning curve has to be somewhat small in order to keep players that are not interested in "living the star trek life".

[thefrayl]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Cryptic is trying to create a game that will appeal to a broader, more casual audience AS WELL AS hardcore Trekkie's and gamers.

That being said, I'm sure that there will be a system in place that simplifies matters considerably, but hopefully it also will allow you to manage all the small details down to the T, if you are so inclined...

[LordDave]

This quote is from a separate topic.


I'm hoping it's not too much micro management.

It's not easy to do every bit of the navigation tactical and evasion manouvers, managing speed, target which vessel to attack, target the sub system to attack on that vessel, attack it with every weapon you use, manage shields to reinforce, control power managements, conducting sensor scans and sweeps, and managing communications with other ships in the area or in your fleet all at the same time.

I mean that's what helmsman, tactical, communications, and science officers are for arent they???

If we do have to micro manage every single department at the same time, on the fly, in combat, with no way of automating any of these functions, then this game is gonna be a pain to play.

Ever play bridge commander?
You had to do all of those at once. However, maneuvers were done with your a,s,w,d, keys, speed was like wise easy to increase or decrease. Targeting required you to pick a target from a menu to the side, but it wasn't bad. You fired phasers with your left mouse and torpedoes with your right. It was pretty easy to do.
It's also going to be slower then a dogfight game so the time it takes to redirect power from aft to forward shields is not going to hinder you.

[Hagon]

There was a quote awhile back from a dev (sorry I'm not going digging for it) basically saying that although a player will be able to control all or most functions (micromanage), there will be an option to put many systems on auto.

So, in other words, it would appear they're trying to go for a "make it as complicated or simple as you want" kind of thing.

[Velociraptor]

This is why I liked the idea of guilds running ships, small limited guilds than you don't have to be a captain. Personally I didn't even wish to be a captain at first, of course the problem is suddenly your weapons guy isn't online and your screwed, so I guess I agree with cryptic on that but maybe a version of it could solve the problem. Your crew is an automated group of AI's, like WOW you have a series of quick keys on a panel, they are basic commands for each thing. Perhaps (since it is a little complicated) you can build key combos, like S is shields and S (up arrow) is shields up, S (down arrow) is shields down, S combo with either left or right puts shields forward focus or backwards focus depending on the area of fire. or it could be a series of menus on the bottom with sub menus. Then you click your option and your avatar calls out the command and one of your AI's is like yes captain.

It'll likely be a little customizable by the player just for what's most convenient.

Maybe in a start-up crew they might question some orders since they're undisciplined and unexperienced:rolleyes:

[BillytheCrayon]

Ever play bridge commander?
You had to do all of those at once. However, maneuvers were done with your a,s,w,d, keys, speed was like wise easy to increase or decrease. Targeting required you to pick a target from a menu to the side, but it wasn't bad. You fired phasers with your left mouse and torpedoes with your right. It was pretty easy to do.
It's also going to be slower then a dogfight game so the time it takes to redirect power from aft to forward shields is not going to hinder you.

Yeah Dave, Bridge Commander is by far my favorite star trek game. Yeah, you could do that stuff manually, but at the same time, you can get your officers to take over most of those jobs automatically. it made great use of the bridge interface, and made the game very fun.

I also have some experience with the game Starfleet Command 3, which you did need to do everything manually, and it was very difficult.

[Hagon]

Player crews are epic fail in SWG and would be the same in STO.

[Duckdee]

There was a quote awhile back from a dev (sorry I'm not going digging for it) basically saying that although a player will be able to control all or most functions (micromanage), there will be an option to put many systems on auto.

So, in other words, it would appear they're trying to go for a "make it as complicated or simple as you want" kind of thing.

That was sooo long ago, and quite vague. I'd like to hear something about it, even if it's just something like; "It is still planned, but we haven't started work on it yet."

A bit like the status of my new computer...

[J.L.Picard]

I disagree. Althougn I do understand your point of view I hope that it is possible to select what level of micro management you want.

SFC3 was pretty awsome at combat and from what I've herd STO space combat is going to be similar but with the depth ,I believe, alot of people would have enjoyed in SFC3.

[Tamgros]

That was sooo long ago, and quite vague.
You mean, just like every piece of info we have? ;)
I disagree. Althougn I do understand your point of view I hope that it is possible to select what level of micro management you want.

I'm hoping for the ability to micromanage like crazy. I play RTS games so i'm used to micromanaging hundreds of things at the same time. I don't think STO should be on that level, but at least allow me to keep active in combat. If this game is as simple of CoH/V or any of the fantasy MMO paradigm, I'm going to be supremely disappointed.

I do think that many things should be automated for those who don't want to micro manage. I mean, that's what the NPC officers are for, right?

[Galv]

The OP's point is the only concern i have, it is a mmo so i'm not expecting much from the combat but i'm atleast hoping it will be fun. Really don't want to be messing around with engineering in the middle of a fight, it should only take 1 or 2 keys/buttons to divert engine power to shields and stuff like that, and i hope they steer clear of using BC and SCF3 as examples of how to do combat.

[The_Padre]

There was a quote awhile back from a dev (sorry I'm not going digging for it) basically saying that although a player will be able to control all or most functions (micromanage), there will be an option to put many systems on auto.

So, in other words, it would appear they're trying to go for a "make it as complicated or simple as you want" kind of thing.

Thank God, I thought I'd have to scrub those toilets on deck 6 myself, now I can just let the cleaning staff do it for me.

[WikiUltimate]

This quote is from a separate topic.


I'm hoping it's not too much micro management.

It's not easy to do every bit of the navigation tactical and evasion manouvers, managing speed, target which vessel to attack, target the sub system to attack on that vessel, attack it with every weapon you use, manage shields to reinforce, control power managements, conducting sensor scans and sweeps, and managing communications with other ships in the area or in your fleet all at the same time.

I mean that's what helmsman, tactical, communications, and science officers are for arent they???

If we do have to micro manage every single department at the same time, on the fly, in combat, with no way of automating any of these functions, then this game is gonna be a pain to play.

you just described Klingon Academy in terms of "micro-management" which was not a hard game for anyone who knew how to think on their feet.

Honestly, i think some of you just want a point-click game with no depth at all. This is not targeted at you specifically Billy, but still if it were too easy it would flop cuz theres no challenge, either that or it would be a "for kid +3 " game... not what i want in a ST game.

[knightofhyrule730]

Survival of the Fittest. If you can't manage/control the game, then don't play. this applies me, you, other players, the devs and craig's goat.

But anyone who's played RTSs (and i mean old school ones, not dumbed down versions like Red Alert 3 and Halo Wars) should be able to play the game perfectly fine.

Really, though, the only micro management ive seen is power systems: shields, weapons and engines. im assuming that there will be some kind of simple UI system for it.

[USS_Parallax]

You want a simulator. They're not making a sim because those cater to a specific and small crowd.

[Arsinoe]

Thank God, I thought I'd have to scrub those toilets on deck 6 myself, now I can just let the cleaning staff do it for me.

Haha, thank god we won't go that far. But i think the gameplay schould not be to hard to learn but difficult to master. Micromanaging like crazy might scare alot of people away. Don't make STO EVE2.

[rencal1975]

If they make combat similar to how it was in Bridge Commander then it should be somewhat manageable. You had to micromanage most of the major functions in Bridge Commander, but you could automate certain parts of it so you didn't have to do absolutely everything. Granted the AI wasn't the best in the world, it got the job done. If they could make that system a bit more intelligent for this game then that would make for some fun combat and give you the feeling of being a captain of a starship.

[LockeCPM4]

I think it would be cool for a bit of voice control added down the road. It would be neat if there were some key words you could say, and your AI crew knew what you wanted them to do.

It's wishful thinking, I'm sure, but it would be a neat option that you could enable/disable as your play style sees fit.

[J.L.Picard]

Thank God, I thought I'd have to scrub those toilets on deck 6 myself, now I can just let the cleaning staff do it for me.

LMFAO cleaning staff.

its a starship not a 5 star hotel LOL

[BillytheCrayon]

If they make combat similar to how it was in Bridge Commander then it should be somewhat manageable. You had to micromanage most of the major functions in Bridge Commander, but you could automate certain parts of it so you didn't have to do absolutely everything. Granted the AI wasn't the best in the world, it got the job done. If they could make that system a bit more intelligent for this game then that would make for some fun combat and give you the feeling of being a captain of a starship.


Rencal knows what i mean. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to micromanage everything, but I'd like to see it where if i'm doing something manually, other things should be able to be automated to some degree (or not automated at all if you wish for the challenge of doing everything). And yeah, the AI in Bridge Commander was a bit unintelligent some of the times, but Bridge Commander is like seven years old.

I'm sure they can work it so those old school, hardcore RTS players can have the challenge they are looking for, and newer, or more casual players have the easier management of the game.

[TruthSeer]

Ever play bridge commander?
You had to do all of those at once. However, maneuvers were done with your a,s,w,d, keys, speed was like wise easy to increase or decrease. Targeting required you to pick a target from a menu to the side, but it wasn't bad. You fired phasers with your left mouse and torpedoes with your right. It was pretty easy to do.
It's also going to be slower then a dogfight game so the time it takes to redirect power from aft to forward shields is not going to hinder you.

Agreed, it's actually easier done than said.

[rencal1975]

Rencal knows what i mean. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to micromanage everything, but I'd like to see it where if i'm doing something manually, other things should be able to be automated to some degree (or not automated at all if you wish for the challenge of doing everything). And yeah, the AI in Bridge Commander was a bit unintelligent some of the times, but Bridge Commander is like seven years old.

I'm sure they can work it so those old school, hardcore RTS players can have the challenge they are looking for, and newer, or more casual players have the easier management of the game.

Yeah its an old ass game, but its the only game I could compare what I'd want as far as automation during combat lol. I also like the idea of voice commands that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I used a voice command software for WoW. Made some things easier to manage.

[USS_Parallax]

I'm doubting that it'll be anything like Bridge Commander. Probably much simpler. Idunno anything though.

[Meehile]

I hope that control of the ship is more arcade-like rather than sim-like. I don't want to click options from menu lists then watch as the battle is automated. I would have more fun controlling my ship in a manner more like Star Wars Galaxies or PotBS.

Although a counterpoint to this is to offer both methods if at all feasible for Cryptic to code. The option to either play arcade-like or sim-like would mean more options for a wider range of players.

[Azurian]

Arcade? You're joking right?

If you want to play an arcade version, go play an XBox. I want to have fun with STO being a challenge with controlls, not point and clicking all day.

[Finishthis]

I hope the game will play out like EVE. The EVE system was really easy once you knew what you wanted to do. But I do hope they'll add a more... simulation kind of feel to being the Captain, I mean I want to feel like a Captain not a ship.

[Ruthlessgravity]

Player crews are epic fail in SWG and would be the same in STO.

you must have sucky friends as a crew. I use to have three of my friends to man the turrets and one to repair the ship on the YT-2400 and go into deep space guns blazing without having problems.

[Rivaris]

you must have sucky friends as a crew. I use to have three of my friends to man the turrets and one to repair the ship on the YT-2400 and go into deep space guns blazing without having problems.

tobad a starship needs more then 3 people to crew aship unless you want to fly a shuttle 24/7

[BillytheCrayon]

I mean I want to feel like a Captain not a ship.

I 100 percent agree with that statement there.

[ronaldheld]

Yes must agree.

[BillytheCrayon]

I'm not asking for player crews, i'm just saying there should be options to have the AI automatically take over some important functions so you don't have to feel overworked. especially in a two or three on one scenario.












shameless bump

[imperialforce]

I hope the game will play out like EVE. The EVE system was really easy once you knew what you wanted to do. But I do hope they'll add a more... simulation kind of feel to being the Captain, I mean I want to feel like a Captain not a ship.

I really hope it's nothing like EvE. The combat was a huge disappointment to me in that game, and it was a dealbreaker despite the fact that I loved almost all other aspects. When I played the beta I assumed that the combat was yet to be fleshed out, but it released in that state, and even though the game has improved in content substantially over the last few years, the core combat remains the same: Calculate optimal range for your weapons and do your best to maintain that range, activating abilities as necessary. It's very much the same as all other MMOs, point, click and press a button occasionally until one of you dies.

What the devs have suggested about STO combat in the interviews and previews I've seen seems to suggest a much more thoughtful system, one where positioning is as important as weapon strength, where the ability to manage your ship's power resources will be as relevant as your shield strength. I especially hope to see "3D Maneuvers", for example axial rotation. I would also have direct control over ship movement, rather than a point and click system; the fact that the space combat game will not be "twitch" does not necessarily eliminate manual control.

[Awarkle]

The main issue i had with being in a turret on SWG was that when the ship turned your turret turned with it, unles your pilot was top notch to keep you flying in a sort of straight line (suicidal around corvettes/destroyers) you were constantly trying to keep a bead on your target.

In the end i found it easier just to keep the ship stationary and Hope in hell the gunners knew what to shoot, but that was pve mostly.

I would say the problem in those sorts of games is it always feels like a good idea to be "the gunner" or "the pilot" but if the mechanics between the two is shot to hell then the game just feels broke.

If the turrets remained targetting at what ever you were aiming at while your ship effectivly moved around you unless the line of sight was lost IE if the ship flipped then thats the only time i would have to reaquire a target.

i remember trying to take a mining crew up in the big mining ship. For and aft tractor beams and front loaded mining lasers with a high speed rear gun for shooting ships.

The ship from the oustide looked like a vegas hotel it was rather sad :(

[wrussandrews]

Player crews are epic fail in SWG and would be the same in STO.

It would be nice to have the option, but not mandatory.

I can see that you too have tried to get a crew to mine or operate your gunship. Its hard enough to get people to crew one of the smaller pob's.

[SenatorPardek]

Player crews are epic fail in SWG and would be the same in STO.

Star Wars Galaxy overall is an EPIC fail.

"Lets make a game in which everyone would want to be a Jedi, but set it in a time period where there are no Jedi.....oh ok lets make Jedi, but if you die once thats it, oh wait, people dont like that......screw it. Add all the Jedi you want, be damned if it doesnt make any sense.