Implications of Project Genesis

[RookActual]

While it was known for a while that Cryptic had intended to essentially 'instance' discovered worlds, this blog establishes it as fact: Project Genesis (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs.cfm?isapi_rewrite_remap=Awenyddion%2F062009% 2F4006&bhcp=1)

It got me thinking of some future cooperation with the games native customization and instancing tools. As a player will be able to create their own race, where are they from? Is it possible that Project Genesis could draw from this to help instance worlds? What about planetary architecture of inhabited worlds?

I think, long down the road, it would be great if you could actually not only design the standard physiology of your race, but give them a homeworld and eventually even have the tools to give them a cultural personality, as well as parameters for what their structures would be like. I know, it's a lot to ask for....

Is it possible that at a certain point, some of player generated races could be given a home? Some could even cohabitate, and based by their cultural standards, may even be in conflict with eachother. It seems feasible, as the game develops it's content as the game goes on, it could also develop parts of your race for you, if not allowing you to do certain things yourself.

[walker555]

While it was known for a while that Cryptic had intended to essentially 'instance' discovered worlds, this blog establishes it as fact: Project Genesis (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs.cfm?isapi_rewrite_remap=Awenyddion%2F062009% 2F4006&bhcp=1)

It got me thinking of some future cooperation with the games native customization and instancing tools. As a player will be able to create their own race, where are they from? Is it possible that Project Genesis could draw from this to help instance worlds? What about planetary architecture of inhabited worlds?

I think, long down the road, it would be great if you could actually not only design the standard physiology of your race, but give them a homeworld and eventually even have the tools to give them a cultural personality, as well as parameters for what their structures would be like. I know, it's a lot to ask for....

Is it possible that at a certain point, some of player generated races could be given a home? Some could even cohabitate, and based by their cultural standards, may even be in conflict with eachother. It seems feasible, as the game develops it's content as the game goes on, it could also develop parts of your race for you, if not allowing you to do certain things yourself.


This is an extremely optimistic idea that is EXTREMELY possible! This is awsome!

[indigowhale345]

Well you aren't the first one to suggest this. If I recall though, it did garner a dev post that said it was an interesting idea, or something to look into or whatever. Still, it takes a lot of corn and cows to make tacos for an entire race... can their system handle that and all the other minutiae that would help make a world believable?

[RookActual]

Well you aren't the first one to suggest this. If I recall though, it did garner a dev post that said it was an interesting idea, or something to look into or whatever. Still, it takes a lot of corn and cows to make tacos for an entire race... can their system handle that and all the other minutiae that would help make a world believable?

I think the idea is that this content is generated as you explore deeper and more throughly...so the content doesn't have to be developed up front all at once anyways. Rome wasn't discovered in a day, sir!

[jhem99]

Genesis = to boldy create what no man has created before.:p

[Ontas]

I guess my big question is:

How can this procedurally created universe stay interesting without integrating player created content?

The only other game I'm aware of (and I humbly profess that my gaming awareness is rather limited) to utilize procedurally generated playable content to flesh out a whole galaxy to explore was Spore. Now, before this thread devolves into a Spore-bashing fest (yes, yes, it disappointed me too, now let's move on), let's take a look at what this really means.

In Spore, Maxis gave the players the ability to create content including species, outfits (basic), architecture, planet-bound craft, and spacecraft. Although the "parts" that were used to create this content were somewhat limited, the possible configurations were not.

As noted in the blog about the Genesis Program, the devs simply don't have the resources to create a whole galaxy of content where every player can literally discover new worlds. But just because you implement a procedural program to generate planets doesn't mean that they will all be new planets or feel different from one another.

My concern is that without player-created content in this system, the galaxy will become a cookie-cutter lottery. Even in the blog, the dev cites an example of a world with Feddies, Klingons, and a crazed Ferengi. This is all well and good, and I'd love to visit this world, but the real point is creating new worlds, isn't it, to "seek out new lifeforms and new civilizations?"

Okay, so the species creator can help with this. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to create an algorithm that will randomly generate entirely new species by plugging random values into the various modifiable fields of this creator. Depending on how many variables and parts there are, these variations could be almost limitless, even if some of them ended up looking a tad absurd or a bit too much like another race, but there are limits that could be programmed to prevent that as well.

But what about ships? What about these new species' architecture? What about the natural flora and fauna of the planet they inhabit? Can Cryptic really design a system that will automatically generate new and diverse starships, buildings, colonies, and environments? What about the personality of these species, or the range of interactions we might be able to have with them (maybe through procedurally generated missions)?

Spore solved some (but certainly not all) of these problems by letting players fill in the blanks and design the aesthetics of the galaxy they would explore. But that would certainly be a bit creation heavy for a Star Trek game... or would it? I honestly don't know.

My concern is that we'll have a massive, endless galaxy to explore that's filled with content that really isn't that diverse. Maybe Cryptic has a lot up their sleeve that they haven't revealed, such as a brilliant procedural architecture, starship, environment, and species personality generating design that will solve all of these issues. But if they don't, will there really be anything in the galaxy worth exploring?

I'm not proposing solutions or claiming that this system won't work--far from it. I'm only curious, truth be told, as to how this will work in the game. Because if it does, and it works well, and it does so completely without player input, well... that would be pretty revolutionary. But as it stands, I have yet to see any evidence that this system will offer a truly unique experience with each new system that you explore.

Is integrating player-created content into this system the answer? I don't know. But I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on the issue. And if player-created content is implemented into the Genesis Program... how much should we have input on? Just the species, or every facet of that species? I honestly don't expect Cryptic to go Spore-happy and include half a dozen or more creators in their game... but what might the other solutions be to creating a truly diverse, logical, and aesthetically pleasing galaxy?

[Haniel]

I love the way you think.
kind of like spore only better cause it's not spore
uh sorry did i say that out loud :confused:

Just kidding sims fans

PS it really is a great idea and well put too

[RookActual]

What I don't want are Mass Effect peripheral missions, where every world had three points of interest, and a facility that was identical on every world not pertinent to the storyline. Certainly there were a few sideline stories, but outside the storyline, the galaxy was pretty much bland. The geography was dissimilar, and that was about it.

[spskeff2]

I have the same concerns, Ontas. Repetitiveness and rearrangement of same/similar visuals and models, etc. is a very valid concern.

This maybe one reason why we continue to wait on baited breath on STO's final stages of development and release. I would bank that Cryptic is taking their time to make something new and innovative. Maybe this is one of those elements of the game that they're hammering out and want to make it...perfect? ;)

Ok I'm done speculating now ;). Let's see what comes down the pipeline! :D

[Manta2015]

Ontas ~ You bring up every point that concerned me regarding this matter -- excellent post =)


-Manta-

[TruthSeer]

I posted this in the other thread:

I think the coolest part of the system is the future potential. If the system really works as well as they say then IMO they've solved their issue on how to implement the holodeck properly. Just give the players an in game version (with some tweaks for the obvious reasons) of the Genesis System.

[Daemonllama]

What I don't want are Mass Effect peripheral missions, where every world had three points of interest, and a facility that was identical on every world not pertinent to the storyline. Certainly there were a few sideline stories, but outside the storyline, the galaxy was pretty much bland. The geography was dissimilar, and that was about it.

I'm right with you there. Of concern from Genesis article you linked to in the OP

“Give me an M class planet with a Federation complex set up in the mountains where some scientists are milling about ...”
“… Now add a bunch of Klingons attacking the complex …”
“... Oh, and make sure the Klingons brought some Targs!”
“… Now make sure one of the Klingons is a badass Dahar master”

Federation complex A......
Klingon Field Command Post C......

Sure, one cabana looks much like the next....but....same-y.

I don't want it to be same-y

[Wallabees]

Ok, long post incoming.

Cryptic bash on about the limitless character customisation possibilities. Lets assume....

Every customisation option is assigned a value (eg head-ridge #1 = HR1, head-ridge #2 = HR2 etc)

Therefore your finished 'species' has a value string assigned to it, essentially a DNA that tells the client how to render your toon.

Now... When creating a 'new' planet with Genesis and populating it with a random 'species' the server checks the player-created database to see if the species string it arrived at randomly matches an existing species.

If it does then the player-created species name becomes the name of the planet perhaps?

Eg - If I have created a species called a 'Testling' and a newly generated planet species matches my string, then the planet is named 'Test' - voila, your species home world has been auto-generated and integrated into the game.


I haven't really thought this through so it's probably full of very large holes, but this is one way 'home-worlds' could be auto-generated and discovered.


Oh also - link to my post in a very old thread where I call the Genesis project!! (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=120093#post120093)

[mistermgd]

I guess my big question is:

How can this procedurally created universe stay interesting without integrating player created content?

The only other game I'm aware of (and I humbly profess that my gaming awareness is rather limited) to utilize procedurally generated playable content to flesh out a whole galaxy to explore was Spore. Now, before this thread devolves into a Spore-bashing fest (yes, yes, it disappointed me too, now let's move on), let's take a look at what this really means.

In Spore, Maxis gave the players the ability to create content including species, outfits (basic), architecture, planet-bound craft, and spacecraft. Although the "parts" that were used to create this content were somewhat limited, the possible configurations were not.

As noted in the blog about the Genesis Program, the devs simply don't have the resources to create a whole galaxy of content where every player can literally discover new worlds. But just because you implement a procedural program to generate planets doesn't mean that they will all be new planets or feel different from one another.



My concern is that without player-created content in this system, the galaxy will become a cookie-cutter lottery. Even in the blog, the dev cites an example of a world with Feddies, Klingons, and a crazed Ferengi. This is all well and good, and I'd love to visit this world, but the real point is creating new worlds, isn't it, to "seek out new lifeforms and new civilizations?"

Okay, so the species creator can help with this. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to create an algorithm that will randomly generate entirely new species by plugging random values into the various modifiable fields of this creator. Depending on how many variables and parts there are, these variations could be almost limitless, even if some of them ended up looking a tad absurd or a bit too much like another race, but there are limits that could be programmed to prevent that as well.

But what about ships? What about these new species' architecture? What about the natural flora and fauna of the planet they inhabit? Can Cryptic really design a system that will automatically generate new and diverse starships, buildings, colonies, and environments? What about the personality of these species, or the range of interactions we might be able to have with them (maybe through procedurally generated missions)?

Spore solved some (but certainly not all) of these problems by letting players fill in the blanks and design the aesthetics of the galaxy they would explore. But that would certainly be a bit creation heavy for a Star Trek game... or would it? I honestly don't know.

My concern is that we'll have a massive, endless galaxy to explore that's filled with content that really isn't that diverse. Maybe Cryptic has a lot up their sleeve that they haven't revealed, such as a brilliant procedural architecture, starship, environment, and species personality generating design that will solve all of these issues. But if they don't, will there really be anything in the galaxy worth exploring?

I'm not proposing solutions or claiming that this system won't work--far from it. I'm only curious, truth be told, as to how this will work in the game. Because if it does, and it works well, and it does so completely without player input, well... that would be pretty revolutionary. But as it stands, I have yet to see any evidence that this system will offer a truly unique experience with each new system that you explore.

Is integrating player-created content into this system the answer? I don't know. But I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on the issue. And if player-created content is implemented into the Genesis Program... how much should we have input on? Just the species, or every facet of that species? I honestly don't expect Cryptic to go Spore-happy and include half a dozen or more creators in their game... but what might the other solutions be to creating a truly diverse, logical, and aesthetically pleasing galaxy?

I don't think it will be completely random; more like a template that you can plug-in diffeent variations of the same things in different configurations on different planets. It wouldn't be hard, for example, to take a basic flower as a template and modify its height, width, color variations. The same would be true for lanscapes; how many different kinds of planets can there really be? so the details are nothing more than taking the template and plugging in diffeent variables to create new things. That seems quite possible without feeling like you are going to the same planet with the same people multiple times.

[JoJimGregory]

Excellent post, Ontas, and I share your hopes that STO gets this right. I think they can, actually.

Put enough variables in the random generator and the permutations could easily run into the millions. In another thread where we were discussing a Planet Spawning System (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=20529) a few weeks back, my thoughts ran similar to yours and suggested multiple variables of some suggested features:

Planet Size
Color Palette
Atmosphere viewed from orbit (using Palette)
Sky viewed from ground (using Palette)
Illuminating bodies (central star type to tint Palette... Red Giant, Yellow, White Dwarf, Blue Dwarf, and Brown Dwarf for twilight world)
Orbiting Bodies (asteroids, moons, eclipsing body a la "Pitch Black", or None)
Populace & Development Level (or None)
Infrastructure to match Development Level (or None)
Quests (or None)
Resources (or None)
Topography (jungle, desert, oceanic (dead ocean if no moon for tidal), savanna, desolate, etc)
Flora (or None)
Fauna (or None)

... and further conveyed my hope that they make these planets come alive with realistic day and night cycles.

There are many more variables they could include, of course, and I hadn't even considered space travel craft in my post. There's little doubt they have the desire to make these planets as unique as possible, but given their production schedule, will they have the time to put it all in?

I really hope they do, since I believe the Genesis system to be as core to STO game play as their quest, persistent worlds, ships, combat, character or any other major game feature system. Maybe even more so in many ways.

[JoJimGregory]

I'd like to add another hope, that they make the skies overhead utilize multiple shells so that we might experience not only realistic day and night cycles, but atmospheric shells also to display strange, layered weather patterns and flights of avians. Orbital shells also so that star occluding eclipses could occur, meteor showers could be occasionally seen (especially if the planet has an abundance of orbiting debris), distant nebula and galaxies can be viewed. And maybe, just maybe, when the ambient light drops below a certain luminosity, by eclipse or nightfall or just heavy rains, a different set of creatures might venture out. No, not like Pitch Black, although that's no doubt what caused me to think of the idea. But it could be cave dwellers, or a subterranean humanoid race of sorts, or just an elevated activity level of the indigenous surface mammals and avian creatures when it's very dark. Or the flora changes somehow in the dark, much like flower petals that retract during the night, or maybe these would come out instead, or perhaps crystalline plant life glows with an internal luminosity. Strange things can happen at night. Spooky things, lest we forget the TOS "Halloween" episode. These features need not even be dangerous, although they could, but these touches of realism can really help bring a planet to life.

I realize it's a lot to ask, and probably not achievable within their development schedule, but the more alive and realistic and dynamic they can make their Genesis planets, the bigger the rave will be in the MMO world.

One last note of paranoia brought on by certain experiences in other non-Cryptic games. If they do not give us the ability to look up at the sky (90 degrees), that is, to look up at space from the ground, it is epic fail. Let's not forget the the first words of narration in every episode and movie...

"Space, the final frontier ..."

Get this wrong like SWG putting stars between the ground and the moon, or like PotBS not even allowing the characters to look up at the overhead sky, and it's a panorama box we're playing in, not a galaxy.

But I have faith that Cryptic will do this up in fine fashion and truly amaze us.

[shildkrote]

Cryptic made CoH...very customizable characters, but the environments were pulled from a very small cache of tiles. (ie, every warehouse, apartment, sewer looked very similar). Making distinct environments will take LOTS of man hours. If the environments are going to be repetitive (or same-y) there had better be some good gameplay and story to back it up.

Here's to hoping we don't see the same Ferengi running around scared on every third planet. ;P

[Archangelwoghd]

While it was known for a while that Cryptic had intended to essentially 'instance' discovered worlds, this blog establishes it as fact: Project Genesis (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs.cfm?isapi_rewrite_remap=Awenyddion%2F062009% 2F4006&bhcp=1)

It got me thinking of some future cooperation with the games native customization and instancing tools. As a player will be able to create their own race, where are they from? Is it possible that Project Genesis could draw from this to help instance worlds? What about planetary architecture of inhabited worlds?

I think, long down the road, it would be great if you could actually not only design the standard physiology of your race, but give them a homeworld and eventually even have the tools to give them a cultural personality, as well as parameters for what their structures would be like. I know, it's a lot to ask for....

Is it possible that at a certain point, some of player generated races could be given a home? Some could even cohabitate, and based by their cultural standards, may even be in conflict with eachother. It seems feasible, as the game develops it's content as the game goes on, it could also develop parts of your race for you, if not allowing you to do certain things yourself.


This is an extremely thought provoking idea. I really don't see how the game can continually be growing without doing this, at least on some level. Obviously we don't want it to turn into a carnival ala second life, but is seems that there could, indeed should, be a way to do this, at least once a player has advanced enough, and provided that STO has final say on any planets, cutures, civilizations, etc. To keep necessary game balance.

[JoJimGregory]

Cryptic made CoH...very customizable characters, but the environments were pulled from a very small cache of tiles. (ie, every warehouse, apartment, sewer looked very similar). Making distinct environments will take LOTS of man hours. If the environments are going to be repetitive (or same-y) there had better be some good gameplay and story to back it up.

Here's to hoping we don't see the same Ferengi running around scared on every third planet. ;P

Here here! LOL

[Loekii]

I think the idea is that this content is generated as you explore deeper and more throughly...so the content doesn't have to be developed up front all at once anyways. Rome wasn't discovered in a day, sir!

I am highly skeptical that the 'Genesis system' is that intricate.

Its more like 'TV Dinner' mass production, rather than having a critically acclaimed Chef prepare your meal.

In order to do what you are suggesting, I think it would take a lot of Dev interaction and lots attention to detail.

I would much rather have devs creating quality content from iconic sources of Star Trek, rather than focusing on content based on player made races -- which is really only 'noval and interesting' to a handfull of players. If asked in general, I am willing to be people would rather see a good Tholian/Breen/Jem'Hadar/Star Trek Series race/etc content patch, than a 'Sporks from Planet Zercon' (aka player created race).

If Cryptic is banking on the 'Genesis' system to be a substitute to quality Dev created content (like what SWG Dev banked on), then STO is definitely not a game for me, and I suspect many others will find such as 'empty' and 'lacking quality'.

[RookActual]

If Cryptic is banking on the 'Genesis' system to be a substitute to quality Dev created content (like what SWG Dev banked on), then STO is definitely not a game for me, and I suspect many others will find such as 'empty' and 'lacking quality'.

I don't think they ever implied this was a content generating application. More like a way to keep the geography expanding.

[TruthSeer]

I don't think they ever implied this was a content generating application. More like a way to keep the geography expanding.

Actually I took it as a content generator but one that was in addition to hand done material.

Anyway, there is no way it can look as bad as SWG, those planets looked like they were made using an RTS map maker and can someone please explain how a transportation vehicle can go up 90 degree angle but can't go over a foot high rock?

[Loekii]

Actually I took it as a content generator but one that was in addition to hand done material.

Anyway, there is no way it can look as bad as SWG, those planets looked like they were made using an RTS map maker and can someone please explain how a transportation vehicle can go up 90 degree angle but can't go over a foot high rock?

I am less worried about the 'planet look', but rather I am worried about the quality of the content.

I think it is a great vehicle to generate lite content -- like the various planets in Mass Effect, that had nothing but minerals/artifacts/etc that you scanned from space. For exploration purposes and science missions, content doesn't really need rich storylines for the most part. Its like how astronomers today are able to look into the galaxy and find wonder, with having to find civilization.

However, when you try to 'write a story' by using a computer code, you get junk and poor quality. There are reasons studios do not simply use 'computers' to write scripts - even though their choices are not much better.

Computers cannot create a believable interesting story. They can do thousands of:

'Hello [insert player name]',
'We are the [insert random race].
'Our culture is [insert random culture type].
'We [insert race reaction] you.
'We need [insert random objective or mission formula]'
In return you may have [insert random reward]'.


I despised the SWG random Mission generator. It was literally a 'bad vending machine' - something you would see in a Sci-Fi spoof about generic mass production. The first time I get a 'Genesis' created 'mission', is the time I create a mod to auto-decline such poor content.

I am paying for Quality Content, not generic content. I don't eat fast food for a reason, and niether do I pay for 'frozen dinners' or 'top bramin noodles'. My money goes for quality, not mass market generic poor quality.

In a sense, it is basically like calling Customer Service and having only a 'computer' answer the phone with no option to talk to a human being (if you cannot log in, press 1....I'm sorry, I did not understand you, please press your choice again.....sorry I cannot understand you, goodbye....click) :rolleyes:

[LordDave]

I am less worried about the 'planet look', but rather I am worried about the quality of the content.

I think it is a great vehicle to generate lite content -- like the various planets in Mass Effect, that had nothing but minerals/artifacts/etc that you scanned from space. For exploration purposes and science missions, content doesn't really need rich storylines for the most part. Its like how astronomers today are able to look into the galaxy and find wonder, with having to find civilization.

However, when you try to 'write a story' by using a computer code, you get junk and poor quality. There are reasons studios do not simply use 'computers' to write scripts - even though their choices are not much better.

Computers cannot create a believable interesting story. They can do thousands of:

'Hello [insert player name]',
'We are the [insert random race].
'Our culture is [insert random culture type].
'We [insert race reaction] you.
'We need [insert random objective or mission formula]'
In return you may have [insert random reward]'.


I despised the SWG random Mission generator. It was literally a 'bad vending machine' - something you would see in a Sci-Fi spoof about generic mass production. The first time I get a 'Genesis' created 'mission', is the time I create a mod to auto-decline such poor content.

I am paying for Quality Content, not generic content. I don't eat fast food for a reason, and niether do I pay for 'frozen dinners' or 'top bramin noodles'. My money goes for quality, not mass market generic poor quality.

In a sense, it is basically like calling Customer Service and having only a 'computer' answer the phone with no option to talk to a human being (if you cannot log in, press 1....I'm sorry, I did not understand you, please press your choice again.....sorry I cannot understand you, goodbye....click) :rolleyes:

Well judging by what I saw, this has 0 story writing abilities. It has quick mission abilities but I don't think you have to worry about it having any significance. Kinda like a bunch of "Go to x and kill Y". It's there to grind.

[Loekii]

Well judging by what I saw, this has 0 story writing abilities. It has quick mission abilities but I don't think you have to worry about it having any significance. Kinda like a bunch of "Go to x and kill Y". It's there to grind.

I agree.

However, I am still recouping from Raph Koster and SWG -- who felt that the such 'grinding' content and 'player sandbox' was he best way to create content. It was such a bad mistake, that even a strong license like Star Wars couldn't overcome it. :mad:

[RookActual]

Well judging by what I saw, this has 0 story writing abilities. It has quick mission abilities but I don't think you have to worry about it having any significance. Kinda like a bunch of "Go to x and kill Y". It's there to grind.

It seemed to me like it's only purpose was to keep expanding the geography, not the content. It just seems like it has future potential to be developed into a very powerful tool that other MMOs could envy.

[Loekii]

It seemed to me like it's only purpose was to keep expanding the geography, not the content. It just seems like it has future potential to be developed into a very powerful tool that other MMOs could envy.

I see that potential, similar to the potential of computers completely replacing people. Possible, yes. Probable in the next 10 years, no.

There are things that are more than just the assembly of parts. Interesting story telling is one of them. The entertainment industry is full of examples of failed and poor attempts, by qualified individuals. There is a 'spirit' there that computers cannot replicate in our time.

So I think it is a great tool at creating lite content and non-specific fluff -- like randomly planting fauna in the world. So long as players are not expecting each planet the 'discover' (via the Genesis system) be effectively be a new 'Zone' or 'Dungeon Instance', it should go over very well.

[RookActual]

I see that potential, similar to the potential of computers completely replacing people. Possible, yes. Probable in the next 10 years, no.

There are things that are more than just the assembly of parts. Interesting story telling is one of them. The entertainment industry is full of examples of failed and poor attempts, by qualified individuals. There is a 'spirit' there that computers cannot replicate in our time.

So I think it is a great tool at creating lite content and non-specific fluff -- like randomly planting fauna in the world. So long as players are not expecting each planet the 'discover' (via the Genesis system) be effectively be a new 'Zone' or 'Dungeon Instance', it should go over very well.


I've never even thought of it as being able to generate 'content' such as quests and missions. I've only implied that if it can create a planet, it could probably also eventually evolve to create the flora and the fauna. With that,the potential of being able to draw from the database of unique player character races(perhaps some that may have become common), it may be able to populate a world in that way. If content were applied to it later, then it would have to be done with human intuition and intervention...but it has simply made that part much simpler.

[LordDave]

It seemed to me like it's only purpose was to keep expanding the geography, not the content. It just seems like it has future potential to be developed into a very powerful tool that other MMOs could envy.

Well according to the example, buildings and NPCs can be plopped there with great ease as well so I think it may be more of a "create the setting" type of thing.

[Aerelleus]

Genesis, Genesis is forbidden!!!!


ok this is better


SEGA!!!!!


LMAO seriously though i hope its run by the devs and not the players otherwise it will get way to crazy.

[RookActual]

Well according to the example, buildings and NPCs can be plopped there with great ease as well so I think it may be more of a "create the setting" type of thing.

Setting. Yes, that is the word I was trying to use....not enough syllables to remember I suppose.

[jhem99]

Genesis is a computer program, and as we know, ;) computers are the world's smartest idiots

[the_reaper87]

I think when it comes to Home Worlds, that when creating your race and giving it your traits, that those traits are linked to behaviour traits, social traits, architectural traits, and maybe planetary traits.

So if you give traits that make it smarter or what not, then the people will be a studious people and the buildings and what not would reflect that. The same if you were creating a race with traits to make it stronger and better at fighting, the people would be more warrior like.

As for planets them selves, Star Trek already says that there are different classes of planets, so we already have basic templates. I doubt we will be able to explore the whole planet, just cities and places of interest. Cities I've already cover above, as for other places of interest you really just need enough variant pieces so that the likely hood of running into the same configuration of pieces is small. Also they should make sure that the night sky reflects the planets position rather then have a standard sky.

You also have to remember that in sci-fi, planets weren't that varied, I mean they spent years filming alien planets for Doctor Who in quarries.

[JoJimGregory]

I don't expect they would use some sort of "fill in the blanks" style of quest generator for Genesis worlds, at least I certainly hope they wouldn't. Developers are at least as savvy as MMO players regarding what has worked and hasn't worked in other MMOs, or should be. Instead, I am hoping they take a more direct approach to Genesis quests, perhaps using a combination of the following two styles:

1. They hand-craft a couple of hundred quests to be used on Genesis worlds. That may sound like a lot but it's really not. World of Warcraft, as an example, launched their game with around 6,000 quests ready to go. Blizzard's mega MMO has over 8,000 quests (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/questlist.html?1) today.

2. The Genesis planet itself becomes a mega-quest. Say the Genesis system creates this great planet that is all yours to explore and interact with. It randomly chooses it's size, color, topography and indigenous life. It lays down the flora and fauna and fills in some buildings and an alien culture. This new planet has a rich resource that you can trade with the inhabitants for, such as Latinum, and the people that live there are in the 2nd of 6 or 10 possible levels of development, say post-tribal but pre-industrial, and certainly pre-warp. There could be a planetary development quest giver that suggests if they had some better fertilizers, they could produce more food and increase their workers' production of Latinum. So off you go across the galaxy to secure this fertilizer. You do so, and sure enough, they are soon able to trade you more Latinum than ever before. Yippee! After a few days or a week of real time, you may need to get them some more fertilizer, to keep production levels up, but then something interesting happens. After a month or two of real time, the development level of the planet goes up a notch, entering an industrial age. When you next visit, the building styles have changed to something a bit more modern, and now, if you'll but help them acquire an Industrial Heat Pump, they can process the Latinum they mine into Cold-Pressed Latinum, a far more valuable and cargo efficient form of the resource.

Anyway, that's the general idea and only a very raw example; that the development of the planet becomes a mega quest or epic planetary development story arc of sorts.

Whoa, hold on there tiger, what about the Prime Directive?

Well, the Prime Directive works really well for a television or movie series, but may not work so well in an MMO environment. In STO, they'll likely need to adopt a Prime Directive Light, being one that says you don't supply a tribal society with Replicators and Hand Phasers, but can assist in their development along the normal paths and logical steps to help advance their culture for the betterment of their society.

This of course infuriates the Klingons, as they see such interference with newly discovered worlds to be a cheap, insipid ploy to enslave cultures and force them to become wholly dependent upon the Federation. The Klingons prefer a more direct approach, forcing the laborers to do their bidding by having them work in 12 hours shifts 24 hours a day. Sure, the inhabitants' health will suffer, but they'll get their production up as well, and all without the Klingons needing to act as a fertilizer supply scow.