Does Cryptic need to 1up the competition

[Deathclock]

http://swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

This video means nothing. But who having watched it didn't get excited? How many people that were on the fence before, leaning towards STO, but still open to SWTOR, just felt like leaning the other way? Bioware releases new videos, information, etc. all the time. Cryptic gives us, very few screen shots, little game info, & 1 video of game play that is quite old.

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

I know there are gonna be people that try to tell me that they are telling us and showing us everything they have. You cant honestly believe that. If this is everything they have, then this game in nothing but an idea. (There is no spoon)

The way I feel, is after that video, I will be playing both of these games.

[TruthSeer]

The main thing keeping me from that game is the knowledge that the game won't look anything like the movie in any sense. Though I'll still probably try the trial.

[wrussandrews]

Well I am not sure how to answer your question.

I think Sony has more to worry about; if Cryptic was facing another Star Trek game the race would be on. There will still be a race of sorts; the first to go live may get an advantage in the short run. Some people will play one for a while, then the other, perhaps changing back and forth.

Others will pick one, or even both. I am a long time SWG player and SWTOR does not interest me from what I have seen so far. I may still give it a try.

[terranova3y2]

http://swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

This video means nothing. But who having watched it didn't get excited? How many people that were on the fence before, leaning towards STO, but still open to SWTOR, just felt like leaning the other way? Bioware releases new videos, information, etc. all the time. Cryptic gives us, very few screen shots, little game info, & 1 video of game play that is quite old.

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

I know there are gonna be people that try to tell me that they are telling us and showing us everything they have. You cant honestly believe that. If this is everything they have, then this game in nothing but an idea. (There is no spoon)

The way I feel, is after that video, I will be playing both of these games.


I had no real interest in TOR, I knew about it and had seen some screenshots and heard some information but I was really all in for STO but after seeing that cinematic last night it really excited me even though I know it is just a cinematic, gave me that Star Wars feeling again. I'm still all for STO but it definitely made me want to look in on TOR more often to see how it's coming along.

I think Cryptic should be concerned a little about it. TOR will end up being a big competitor with STO but I believe they'll end up being completely different types of games. If I was to put STO up with any other MMO it still would be EvE and that's what people are critics will end up comparing it against in my opinion.

I've already mentioned my concerns over Cryptics information flow to the public and it still stands really.

More info = more hype

[thefrayl]

As far as I'm concerned, they already have 1uped the "Competition" by showing us a movie utilizing the in-game engine, and giving us an in depth look at the history leading to the game. Along with some beautiful screenshots. This TOR video held no substance to me. It was merely a clip of eye candy that shows nothing about what the actual game will be like.

I think that Cryptic is doing a fine job, and will continue to do so.

[Manta2015]

The TOR eye candy showed that Bioware has the additional funding for a great cinematics department. That I sadly think speaks for itself ~ I'd rather Cryptic work on the actual game than a petty intro, but it does get you thinking what we've seen so far of STO, and what people think we should have seen already ~


-Manta-

[Deathclock]

Well really I don't want want to know what game you plan to play. we don't even know if the games will be released close enough to each other, to really fight over customers. I just want Cryptic to know that they have competition, & their competition is doing everything they can to get/keep people excited about their game.

I think Cryptic should show us something new & more exciting then a pic. of a new ship, of a screen shot.
Give us some eye candy video that doesn't mean much, but gets us all back to being as excited as we were when we first herd the game was being made.

[wrussandrews]

I think the more info = more hype is why Cryptic is quiet. They simple do now want to devote resources to managing rumors and dealing with customers that disagree with what they are doing.

[Ballping]

There is no competition until each game goes live and is directly competing for subscriptions.

Both games are in early development. (Pre-beta) So eye candy at this point is just that. Eye Candy, its something the developer chooses to do for the existing fan base. Its not a requirement, and it does little for sales as if the game doesn't release until 2-3 or more months down the road, chances are when it comes time to buy consumers will have completely forgotten any short video or other that they've seen.

Bioware chooses to give their customers alot of eye candy for every game/project that they work on. That is one of the reasons i like them as a developer. The only problem with this is that it takes time/money away from the developement of their games, and alot of Bioware projects end up going over production time schedules. (Alot of their release dates get pushed back)

Cryptic on the other hand keeps eye candy down to a minimum, and plays information very close to the chest. There is nothing wrong with this as it keeps needless hype down to a minimum and they end up not over bloating their games before their even released.

Both ways of operating are perfectly valid.

Unasked for advice: Take a deep breath, realize you have atleast a few more months minimum before you get a really good peek at the game, and find something else to do to bide your time. (Participate more in the forums giving the devs your ideas and feelings that they will read but probably be unable to act upon, or find another game to play until beta kicks up.)

[Deathclock]

As far as I'm concerned, they already have 1uped the "Competition" by showing us a movie utilizing the in-game engine, and giving us an in depth look at the history leading to the game. Along with some beautiful screenshots. This TOR video held no substance to me. It was merely a clip of eye candy that shows nothing about what the actual game will be like.

I think that Cryptic is doing a fine job, and will continue to do so.

I said the clip means noth in my OP. My point is that the clip was fun to watch and gets you excited about the game. & maybe you are excited enough about STO with the few screen shots, but im not. I get more excited about this game watching a movie or talking about it with my friends. I want to feel the excitement watching a STO teaser,that I felt watching the TOR clip.

[Loekii]

I think it is more than just the last Trailer.

Estimated Release:
STO = Dec 09 ~ March 10
SW:TOR ~ Q4 2010

Compare the total Trailers/Videos:
STO Videos (3) (http://www.startrekonline.com/videos)
SW:TOR Videos (6) (http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers)

Compare the Screenshot Pages between STO and SW:TOR:
STO Screenshots (~38) (http://www.startrekonline.com/screenshots)
SW:TOR Screenshots (~46) (http://www.swtor.com/media/screens)

Then further compare the simply layout of the two sites. Information is more easily obtained and laid you. If I asked my wife (who hates both Video games and Sci-Fi, but works for a Web Service Software company) to find information one of the factions or say one of the classes in SW:TOR, she could find it.

If I ask her to do the same on the STO site, she would not be able to find it (and probably throw something at me in the attempt).

So, imo, it not simply that SW:TOR released an impressive trailer, but rather STO is falling behind in the PR department.

[Jester20]

I love Star Trek and I love Star Wars but i think these 2 games offer different style of gameplay and it depends what you want more.

I am 100% going to play both of these games but for different experiences and I dont know why there is so much SWTOR hate here and STO hate over on their forums.

I am just so glad that here are 2 games on the Horizon that will (hopefully) break me out of the mind numbing repetativeness of WOW.

[PicardoManeuver]

Far be it from me to dictate demands, but the PR team really needs to let more info out soon. The fact that they're holding so much back makes me wonder what they are keeping so hush-hush about.

[Deathclock]

There is no competition until each game goes live and is directly competing for subscriptions.

The competition started as soon as we found out that they were both developeing thier gamesat the same time. Even if they dont launch at the same time, it still comes down to most people that are Star Trek fans & Star Wars fans, that are going to play one of these games because thier Star Trek / Star Wars games wont play 2 pay to play games, and their gonig to chose 1.


Bioware chooses to give their customers alot of eye candy for every game/project that they work on. That is one of the reasons i like them as a developer. The only problem with this is that it takes time/money away from the developement of their games, and alot of Bioware projects end up going over production time schedules. (Alot of their release dates get pushed back)


Trust me. Creating this video dident take a cent away from the production of TOR.

[Vuk]

Let's see , this is what SWG would have been had they placed Jedi in the story line right at the beginning . No thanks , been there done that grind , pass. Nothing new with TOR .

[Sark]

I'm really not sure that there ever was much of a battle between the two games. From everything I've seen/heard/read, most of the audience for SWTOR doesn't have much interest in STO and vice-versa. I realize that there are some players who want to play both, but I'd hazard to say that that is the minority.

For my part, I think BioWare will do a fine job with SWTOR, and I think it's a fine idea, but I'm staying away from it on principle. When they chose to create SWTOR at the exclusion of continuing the single-player KOTOR experience, left hanging at the end of KOTOR2, and then have the gall to tell all of the players who want to see that storyline continue and find out what they're hinting at that we'll now have to go online and pay monthly fees to do it is a betrayal. I wouldn't care if there was SWTOR and KOTOR3. But there isn't a KOTOR3. So I care.

But that's my rant about SWTOR. I like what Cryptic's doing so far - I think it's reasonable to avoid building hype for the game, and I know they seem to be trying to keep from having to set a schedule they can't keep. That's what hype tends to do: force you to satiate the clamor for a release date by setting one that you think you can make at the time, but game development doesn't work that smoothly.

Besides, frankly, if Cryptic feels like it needs to make STO all about massive battles and shiny explosions and stuff, then they are clearly not the developer I think they are, and STO will not be the game I hope it is. Not that those things aren't good and fun and should be in the game; they just shouldn't be what the game's about and releasing such will only make me more apprehensive about the entire project.

[Deathclock]

I think it is more than just the last Trailer.

Estimated Release:
STO = Dec 09 ~ March 10
SW:TOR ~ Q4 2010

Compare the total Trailers/Videos:
STO Videos (3) (http://www.startrekonline.com/videos)
SW:TOR Videos (6) (http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers)

Compare the Screenshot Pages between STO and SW:TOR:
STO Screenshots (~38) (http://www.startrekonline.com/screenshots)
SW:TOR Screenshots (~46) (http://www.swtor.com/media/screens)

Then further compare the simply layout of the two sites. Information is more easily obtained and laid you. If I asked my wife (who hates both Video games and Sci-Fi, but works for a Web Service Software company) to find information one of the factions or say one of the classes in SW:TOR, she could find it.

If I ask her to do the same on the STO site, she would not be able to find it (and probably throw something at me in the attempt).

So, imo, it not simply that SW:TOR released an impressive trailer, but rather STO is falling behind in the PR department.

Thank you Loekii. You translated it for me. You da man. Maybe I just get to excited when im posting and I dont make the point im trying to.

[Loekii]

Far be it from me to dictate demands, but the PR team really needs to let more info out soon. The fact that they're holding so much back makes me wonder what they are keeping so hush-hush about.

I feel the same way. Things seemed to have sputtered again -- what happen to the Member perk for registering before 5/22? Nothing big to coincide with the Movie Release. Not attending E3.

I feel as if there are 'issues' we are not being told about - which is understandable. However, beyond that, the message being sent is not really a good one.

I am not a 'fan' per say, but rather a potential customer. Stuff like this, is like when 'interviewing' a potential Accountant and they seem disorganized and not really forth coming with information. I like the staff, but I also like my friends -- some of whom I wouldn't hire to work in the mail room.

Right now, if these two games were perspective employees, SW:TOR had arrived in a pressed Suit, with resume, references and a knowledge of my company, and STO has arrived in a winkled suit and a poorly organized resume.

[uetur]

I think the OP has a valid point. While I am not dying to get tons of new informatation on STO because it is in develepmont, in comparing the two efforts I feel TOR is winning the PR battle. The more hype your game has the more early adopters you will get, if you can combine that with a great game at launch then you will be more successful than if you have one or the other. I may end up playing TOR first and if it is a good game I may not pick up STO, the opposite could happen as well. So hype is important.

However that being said the bottom line is having a great game, WAR was hyped big time and I was an early adopter and it flopped because their game was not ready to go prime time. I think we can all agree that ultimately it will be the game that matters. You can't release a product anymore that is merely finished, it has to be polished and ready to go.

[Ballping]

The competition started as soon as we found out that they were both developeing thier gamesat the same time. Even if they dont launch at the same time, it still comes down to most people that are Star Trek fans & Star Wars fans, that are going to play one of these games because thier Star Trek / Star Wars games wont play 2 pay to play games, and their gonig to chose 1.

Competition doesn't start until one or the other of the games is actually physically making money off of you. I would hope for your sake if all you can afford to play is one game or the other is that you know what you are buying into before you make a purchasing decision. Ie: find out at the very least what the gameplay and story elements will be like, and if the game will actually entertain you before you go whole hog for one or the other.

Trust me. Creating this video dident take a cent away from the production of TOR.

Really? So Bioware didn't hire an art department, software developement department, and a marketing department to make that video? Please tell me how this is done because if i can convince people to work for me for free i'll be able to develope the MMO that i have on my mind. ;-)

Btw, no offence intended by my sarcasm, but you do need to do your homework on MMO developement. I've worked on the sidelines of MMO's and everything they do costs money. You have to pay hourly wages, not to mention operating costs just to produce the smallest things in an MMO, so those videos do indeed cost money.

[Rgoodfel]

It was a really nice video. It does make me curious about SW:tOR. But, a breath taking video doesn't mean breath taking gameplay.

[Loekii]

Really? So Bioware didn't hire an art department, software developement department, and a marketing department to make that video? Please tell me how this is done because if i can convince people to work for me for free i'll be able to develope the MMO that i have on my mind. ;-)

Different accounts/budgets.

The money for the PR comes from an account that is not intended to be used for Development.

It is like how advertising for a Film or TV show, comes from an entirely different budget than the shooting budget.

Or another way to put it,if you and Tom work in the same postion at a job, it is like how Tom's Overtime is not taken out of your Paycheck.

[Deathclock]

But that's my rant about SWTOR. I like what Cryptic's doing so far - I think it's reasonable to avoid building hype for the game, and I know they seem to be trying to keep from having to set a schedule they can't keep. That's what hype tends to do: force you to satiate the clamor for a release date by setting one that you think you can make at the time, but game development doesn't work that smoothly.


I really dident think there would be thesee kind of reactions. I personally dont understand why Cryptic is so "hush hush". If your releaseing a new product, dont you want to get people excited about it. I think if more people were more excited about it, more people would talk about it & that would end up being more sales when you finally do release it. Games and movies do it all the time, it works

And so what if the dont meet a release date. Games get pushed back all the time. I have never not bought a game because the release date was pushed back. Meeting unrealistic deadlines are Dev. problems, and if they dont think they can meet those dates, then dont give us that info. But give us something.

[sblack]

Well, I'm waiting for both. I honestly have a lot more confidence that BioWare will make a game I will /drool over more than Cryptic. BUT I would be happy to be proven wrong.

I also expect STO comes out well before SWTOR. Bioware isn't close to finished as far as I know. But that hardly matters because (god-Kirk-willing), Bioware is also coming out with Dragon Age: Origin and Mass Effect 2, which I will also be purchasing. I can't believe I took a year or so to by Mass Effect 1, and it is just awesome...

IMO about 70-90% of the people that will buy this game, will also buy SWTOR. Then it is just going to be up to which is better, or which one you are in the mood for, or how many subscriptions you are willing to pay for, or who you meet that you want to play with.

[Hagon]

What will be will be, no use fretting over it. Each company just needs to make their games as fun to play as possible, and people's tastes will eventually settle on one or the other, and with some both.

[Ballping]

Different accounts/budgets.

The money for the PR comes from an account that is not intended to be used for Development.

It is like how advertising for a Film or TV show, comes from an entirely different budget than the shooting budget.

Or another way to put it,if you and Tom work in the same postion at a job, it is like how Tom's Overtime is not taken out of your Paycheck.


Actually you're wrong there, unless you go to a truely big company like Blizzard who have budget to spare and hire extra staff.

What you normally have in most companies is one or two PR personnel, who have the job of hyping, or advertising their games. They'll make a decision to create a trailer, take that to the CEO of the company and then with that person's approval will borrow personnel from development (artists and coders) to create the trailer.

The account is the same account that pays for everything else in the game development cycle. The salaries are the same, its just simply and added task to the bottom wrung people who actually do the work.

Watch some video's on companies that ramp up for E3. You'll see time and time again the stories of how they have to pull staff from development just to produce a 30 second trailer to show at E3. It really quite interesting to watch game development cycles. The no sleep cycles that companies put themselves through when they reach important milestones is particularly interesting to watch. Though not from the inside. ;-)

[Deathclock]

Really? So Bioware didn't hire an art department, software developement department, and a marketing department to make that video? Please tell me how this is done because if i can convince people to work for me for free i'll be able to develope the MMO that i have on my mind. ;-)

I'm sure they did. But if that money came out of their budget, how much (%) do you think I really cost them. Also I think (I don't know) that would be more in an advertising budget. I don't think they would have the money they were going to use for the development of the game pooled in with the money meant for advertising. (but again I dont know)

[Reinkaos]

SW:TOR already has the advantage of a very deep and far reaching story and established lore (that's not to say that Star Trek has little of these, but I just think that Star Wars has more), and so they've already got a great palette of Sith abilities, weapons, tactics, even morals, politics, ideals, "classes", professions, ships, and so on and so forth presented from both the films and the community. They've hit the ground running, as far as established lore goes.

Sure, Star Trek has just as deep lore and history, but that's Starfleet-biased, hence the Starfleet bias to STO - right now. While they're working on the game, they need to maintain a PR presence, and what they have right now to run with is Starfleet stuff, as that is what's readily available at first-glance, and what they have the most solid information on.

I imagine Cryptic are gleaning what they can from, well, everywhere, about Klingons and how Klingons would approach everything compared to Starfleet, as well as exploring ways to flesh out their ship roster and gameplay mechanics so that they feel like Klingons. With that said, this is a time-consuming and very touchy subject and it's sure to be undergoing a lot of changes every day i.e, it's not solid, so they can't really present it to us as easily or confidently as they can Starfleet stuff. (Side-question: are there Klingon Technical Manuals akin to the TNG/DS9/VOY counterparts, or are Klingon concerns contained within those manuals?)

I think that this is a little more of a grey area with Klingons, and so Cryptic has to play catch-up by filling in these "holes" in Klingon history and lore (they've been using the same ship hulls for how long?). Star Trek has always been mainly about Starfleet, and while there is a fair amount of history and lore of Klingons, I doubt it's anywhere as rich and detailed as that of the Sith.

This much-fabled Klingon Carrier-class is just one new ship for the Klingons.. Cryptic has to create (hopefully not kitbash :p) a good few more to so much as "break even" with Starfleet's current (and sure to expand) ship roster - and that doesn't even include ships of the races we know to be allied with the Klingons. What will the Gorn have, for example? Crytpic have to sort all of this out before they can truly move onwards and upwards with STO... walk before you can run, build your house on rocks, not sand.

I've a feeling that the Path To.. series will lead up to a "new site" with fleshed out Klingons and, with a full backstory to the STO universe and its two main "sides", with faction-specific backstories for both sides on their respective pages, and general game info on the "main" page. .. just looking at the SW site gives me ideas for STO, right down to the "red vs blue" theme :p

[Ballping]

I'm sure they did. But if that money came out of their budget, how much (%) do you think I really cost them. Also I think (I don't know) that would be more in an advertising budget. I don't think they would have the money they were going to use for the development of the game pooled in with the money meant for advertising. (but again I dont know)

It is indeed the same budget. Let me try explaining it in a different way.

If you're a software developer, would you hire 2 different artists, and 2 different coders. You'll have 1 artist and 1 coder who works on the actual video game your developing.

The other artist and other coder sits around, still getting paid by the hour. The latter artist and coder would only be responsible for producing the on average 6 or 7 trailers that your PR department will ask for during the entire time of development of the game. The rest of the time their just sitting their getting paid.

Or you can just hire 1 artist and 1 coder, who develop the game, and can also be used to produce any trailers you may need to be produced for the game.

Now, if you do the latter, are you going to pay them one hourly salary when you have them work on all projects you give them, or are you going to pay them different salaries depending on what they happen to be working on at any particular time?

[Rillanor]

It was a really nice video. It does make me curious about SW:tOR. But, a breath taking video doesn't mean breath taking gameplay.

Well we've hardly see anything of STO to prove that it will have breath taking gameplay either!

The video aside... SW:TOR also offers a comic and visual archives/timeline narrated by LANCE HENRIKSEN as a backdrop to the game... so I tend to agree that SW:TOR is ahead in the info game!

You can see some good in game footage for TOR in some the developers video updates... just look for them :)

And anyone who believes that BIOWARE can't pull off a breathtaking game obviously has NEVER played any of their games...

I'm following both games :p

[SiskoBell]

I just happened upon the TOR video before I saw this thread. I agree with Deathclock's sentiment regarding the video being exciting. It does make me wonder how TOR will shape up. I then re-watched the old STO trailer. While I think the TOR video scored points for flash and presentation, I think the STO trailer still wins. We know TOR video is using cinematic footage, but STO is using real in game footage.

Also, more than the graphics, I really wonder how close will game play (i.e. character movements, group action, environmental damage/interactions, etc.) in the actual TOR game be to the video. With STO, it looks like we'll get what we see.

So in all, I'm still excited about STO. I may play TOR, but STO is the priority.

[Deathclock]

I just happened upon the TOR video before I saw this thread. I agree with Deathclock's sentiment regarding the video being exciting. It does make me wonder how TOR will shape up. I then re-watched the old STO trailer. While I think the TOR video scored points for flash and presentation, I think the STO trailer still wins. We know TOR video is using cinematic footage, but STO is using real in game footage.

Also, more than the graphics, I really wonder how close will game play (i.e. character movements, group action, environmental damage/interactions, etc.) in the actual TOR game be to the video. With STO, it looks like we'll get what we see.

So in all, I'm still excited about STO. I may play TOR, but STO is the priority.

I just think that Cryptic need to give the STO followers that same exciteing fealing, with a video of thier own. Its just hard for me to believe that Cryptic cant put together a cinematic like the TOR cinematic. Its depressing to have to consider that they might be that farr behind.

[Sark]

I really dident think there would be thesee kind of reactions. I personally dont understand why Cryptic is so "hush hush". If your releaseing a new product, dont you want to get people excited about it. I think if more people were more excited about it, more people would talk about it & that would end up being more sales when you finally do release it. Games and movies do it all the time, it works

And so what if the dont meet a release date. Games get pushed back all the time. I have never not bought a game because the release date was pushed back. Meeting unrealistic deadlines are Dev. problems, and if they dont think they can meet those dates, then dont give us that info. But give us something.

I'm hardly advocating being quiet about the game until the point that suddenly it's release day. But they are giving us things, and I imagine they will give us more things as the opportunity presents itself to do so in the right way. Right now, who knows exactly where Cryptic is with development - far, yes, but how far? I think it's reasonable to release stuff that you know will be in the game as shown rather than make a lot of promises that you may or may not keep. That may not stop people from buying a game, but a player's disappointment when he/she finds out that something Cryptic promised didn't make it in might lead to not playing for long.

Further, the issue with release dates is less the repercussion of missing them, but more the fact that once a release date is set, the developer can't necessarily decide whether or not to keep it. There's a whole business and marketing end of the game industry which cares about the bottom line, not whether or not the game is finished. That's what happened with KOTOR2 - it didn't matter that the developers knew it was an unfinished game, their bosses told them to release what they had on the stated release date. It'd be great if a developer could release a game when it felt like it was finished, but regrettably that's seldom the reality.

Cryptic has released some info recently (via GameSpot) and will continue to release more. When release is closer I'm sure we'll start getting the appropriate flow of stuff to get us and others really excited for the months leading up to release. But right now we don't even have a firm release window. Just be patient for a while - it's coming.

[Manx]

The OP may have a point. I had lost interest in SW:TOR after watching some of the early vids; but that new trailer is just plain awsome! Sure, a good cinematic doesn't mean a good game; but right now, my enthusiasm for all things Star Wars is pretty darn high.

Personally, I think Cryptic have been quite generous with updates, considering how much of the game is still up in the air (false impressions can lead to a lot of grief); but nothing that has been released about STO has got me quite as excited as the SW:TOR movie did.

On the other hand though; SW:TOR is so far from release that the enthusiasm can't possibly be maintained until launch. Not unless Bioware are going to be releasing more movies like that one every couple of months anyway.

[Jsnuk]

Star Wars ships dont have nacelles, im in it for them baby. Seriously though I'll play both and see which i prefer.

[laladiel]

i kind of like the way Cryptic is handling STO, but yes, they could give a little more info.

[Neshy]

They need to do more than 1up the competition. they need to leave it in the dust. STO needs to get out there.

[Manta2015]

It could be worse, folks.

We could be fearing such future behemoths like Stargate WORLDS! (lol)


-Manta-

[AtomicNerd]

Just today there was an article on massively.com called “Is sw:tor hype peaking too early?” that speaks to this exact subject very well.

But yeah I think there’s a happy medium between that and what STO has going on. The whole secrecy until closer to game launch is getting a little stale. Even if a lot of stuff is still up in the air some things have to be finished enough to be able to show. As for more coming out closer to launch The Champions site looks almost exactly like this one and that’s going to launch this September.

This isn’t even as much a website as just forum with a front news page that rarely has news about actual game content.
It does look a little amateurish when you see some of what’s out there.

[Raven0238]

As a matter of fact - i feel Cryptic has made a huge marketing blunder with the E3 conference in not displaying STO and not coming up with a new trailer of sorts. While the video might of meant "nothing" - its getting people excited, and its getting people to talk - which is the point and thus means its successful. SWTOR is going to be STO largest competitor - Cryptic needs to REALLY step up its marketing.

[SiskoBell]

I just think that Cryptic need to give the STO followers that same exciteing fealing, with a video of thier own. Its just hard for me to believe that Cryptic cant put together a cinematic like the TOR cinematic. Its depressing to have to consider that they might be that farr behind.

I see your point about excitement. I do think more could be done in that respect. A new video would go a long way to satisfying some of the pent up demand for news by STO fans. By this time in development, I'm sure Cryptic could put together an awesome video that gives us an exciting glimpse of what's to come.

On the other hand, Picard's admonition to Tam Elbran in "Tin Man (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tin_Man_(episode))" is apropos, "...Being the first at any cost is not always the point." Perhaps Cryptic is doing the right thing by focusing on the game so that we will all be wow'ed by it later. Plus, Star Trek Online has been in development for quite some time. I think we'll soon see some impressive PR updates from Cryptic in the next few months. By then I doubt the TOR video will matter in comparison.

[KirksOtherSon]

If I remember my facts, Bioware has been working on SW: TOR a lot longer than Cryptic has been working on STO.

TOR was in "secret development" (i.e. it was an open secret that Bioware wouldn't confirm or deny) for a couple of years prior to Cryptic acquiring the STO license, at least.

Where Cryptic closed the time gap was in the fact that they already had a game-engine built -- but they're still making _design_ decisions now, if the dev Twitter comments are any indication.

Remember too that Bioware is backed by Lucasarts on this project, which means that they have a _lot_ more promotional money available.

For example, you may have noticed on the TOR website that they've basically "stolen" Cryptic's "Path to 2409" update idea, but while the STO updates are text, the TOR updates are web-based comic book pages, and full flash animations, narrated by the actor, Lance Henriksen.

So, the Lucasarts partnership means that TOR has a lot more promotional effort and money to spare.

And, as has been said, while that trailer was awesome as a piece of promotion, it's not like the game is actually going to _look_ that way when you play it.

Judging from the latest in-game footage, TOR will look good (LINK (http://www.swtor.com/media/vidcasts/devdispatch001)), but it won't look _that_ good! ;)

Me, I plan to try both SW: TOR and Champions Online in addition to STO. Whichever two are the most fun to play, day in and day out, those are the two I plan to keep.

As always, the proof is in the playing with games. Glossy hype will bring people to the game, but only fun gameplay will keep them.

My opinions anyway,

KOS

[No1UKnow]

I've never watched anything Star Wars. I could care less about anything that is Star Wars. I've always been a huge Trek fan, if this game doesn't pan out for me, I most likely won't be trying anything Star Wars. I'm not here for the sci-fi, just for the IP.

[Loekii]

It is indeed the same budget. Let me try explaining it in a different way.

If you're a software developer, would you hire 2 different artists, and 2 different coders. You'll have 1 artist and 1 coder who works on the actual video game your developing.

The other artist and other coder sits around, still getting paid by the hour. The latter artist and coder would only be responsible for producing the on average 6 or 7 trailers that your PR department will ask for during the entire time of development of the game. The rest of the time their just sitting their getting paid.

Or you can just hire 1 artist and 1 coder, who develop the game, and can also be used to produce any trailers you may need to be produced for the game.

Now, if you do the latter, are you going to pay them one hourly salary when you have them work on all projects you give them, or are you going to pay them different salaries depending on what they happen to be working on at any particular time?

The different Artist and coder and additional expenses would fall under two different budget lines.

You may be correct in how software game companies may make their budget, but if the intermix production budget and PR into one 'line/pool', then its how they do it.

The point is that 'SW:TOR' did not sacrifice the quality of their game, just to release that trailer.

It is just not how successful compaines (like Bioware) do business. Perhaps if SW:TOR was being designed by a neophyte company, that might be the case, but given Bioware's success and history, they are not 'that' inexperienced to make such a move.

[Loekii]

If I remember my facts, Bioware has been working on SW: TOR a lot longer than Cryptic has been working on STO.

TOR was in "secret development" (i.e. it was an open secret that Bioware wouldn't confirm or deny) for a couple of years prior to Cryptic acquiring the STO license, at least.

Where Cryptic closed the time gap was in the fact that they already had a game-engine built -- but they're still making _design_ decisions now, if the dev Twitter comments are any indication.

Remember too that Bioware is backed by Lucasarts on this project, which means that they have a _lot_ more promotional money available.

For example, you may have noticed on the TOR website that they've basically "stolen" Cryptic's "Path to 2409" update idea, but while the STO updates are text, the TOR updates are web-based comic book pages, and full flash animations, narrated by the actor, Lance Henriksen.

So, the Lucasarts partnership means that TOR has a lot more promotional effort and money to spare.

And, as has been said, while that trailer was awesome as a piece of promotion, it's not like the game is actually going to _look_ that way when you play it.

Judging from the latest in-game footage, TOR will look good (LINK (http://www.swtor.com/media/vidcasts/devdispatch001)), but it won't look _that_ good! ;)

Me, I plan to try both SW: TOR and Champions Online in addition to STO. Whichever two are the most fun to play, day in and day out, those are the two I plan to keep.

As always, the proof is in the playing with games. Glossy hype will bring people to the game, but only fun gameplay will keep them.

My opinions anyway,

KOS

However, if you look at say WAR, at this point in development, they had a defined website that detailed their classes, loads of screenshots, and were firing off rich Monthly Reports.

Again, I like the staff at STO, but when compared to other companies, their PR efforts are below average.

[AtomicNerd]

It’s not a question of a better IP. The SW site is rich and well developed and succeeding at generating public interest and this site and the CO one frankly look out of date in comparison.

Even if the SW site doesn’t really have much about the game they at least go into some specifics about classes and the equipment and tactics they employ which are all visually displayed and easily accessible instead of needing to root through a linear catalog of pages of text. The SW:TOR site makes me want to look through it despite the fact it’s not even a game I plan to play.

For all the talk of its better to spend money on the game than the advertising, it’s an investment. A necessary one. Word of mouth is how indy game makers work not the ones building a top of the line IP game that shows up on everyone’s “most anticipated” lists.

[Ballping]

The different Artist and coder and additional expenses would fall under two different budget lines.

You may be correct in how software game companies may make their budget, but if the intermix production budget and PR into one 'line/pool', then its how they do it.

The point is that 'SW:TOR' did not sacrifice the quality of their game, just to release that trailer.

It is just not how successful compaines (like Bioware) do business. Perhaps if SW:TOR was being designed by a neophyte company, that might be the case, but given Bioware's success and history, they are not 'that' inexperienced to make such a move.


I never said they sacrificed the quality of the game to produce that trailer. They simply sacrificed the extra budget time to produce that trailer. Meaning the developers that were pulled off of actually developing the game had to spend some of their time to produce that video. Whether that development time lost was worth it or not is up for debate, and that was the main point of my initial argument. Its simply a different philosophy of development between the two companies.

There is nothing inherently wrong with either philosophy, but you have to realize you have to sacrifice resources to work on the fluff that most PR is. Whether that is worth it or not is up to personal opinion.

[Kinjiru]

The main thing keeping me from that game is the knowledge that the game won't look anything like the movie in any sense. Though I'll still probably try the trial.

Same here. Although there's a good chance that I won't go near it if 'm a happy clam playing STO.

[vp21ct]

The main thing is this, STO and SWTOR will take a year AT THE LEAST, almost definetly more, to complete.

Cryptic is releasing so little because they don't want to get us to hyped up about things that may or may not be in game. They learned that lesson with CoH.

SWTOR will find itself running into problems when they enter beta and run into setbacks, can't release on time, and have a massive gap between what and when they gave out info at the begining, and what and when they gave out near the end.

[DanSeale]

It’s not a question of a better IP. The SW site is rich and well developed and succeeding at generating public interest and this site and the CO one frankly look out of date in comparison.

Even if the SW site doesn’t really have much about the game they at least go into some specifics about classes and the equipment and tactics they employ which are all visually displayed and easily accessible instead of needing to root through a linear catalog of pages of text. The SW:TOR site makes me want to look through it despite the fact it’s not even a game I plan to play.

For all the talk of its better to spend money on the game than the advertising, it’s an investment. A necessary one. Word of mouth is how indy game makers work not the ones building a top of the line IP game that shows up on everyone’s “most anticipated” lists.

Let's face it ... the one thing that Lucas and Bioware DO understand quite well ... and that is marketing. Wheather that be toys, models or games, they do a very fine job in that department.

[No1UKnow]

The main thing is this, STO and SWTOR will take a year AT THE LEAST, almost definetly more, to complete.

Cryptic is releasing so little because they don't want to get us to hyped up about things that may or may not be in game. They learned that lesson with CoH.

SWTOR will find itself running into problems when they enter beta and run into setbacks, can't release on time, and have a massive gap between what and when they gave out info at the begining, and what and when they gave out near the end.

QFT. Devs who talk too much, such as EAMythic did with Warhammer Online, had awesome PR but by the time of release, most of their subscribers where extremely po'd because almost everything Mythic hyped was total BS or out right lies or just broken with promises to fix at a later date.

I would rather hear nothing at all and step into an awesome game than to hear tons of hype about what the game will be and step into an unflushed toiled at launch.

[Janaus]

Hm, unfortunately I have to agree with the OP, Cryptic is seriously lacking in the PR department. The developers etc that are here already, interacting with us, either releasing updates, or trying to get our opinions on the forums, are doing the best they can, but, lets be real honest, how many of them have ONLY the web site, or ONLY the forum to deal with? I would bet good money that it's not a large number, and on the other side, it's pretty obvious that the situation is exactly the opposite over at SWTOR.

Cryptic needs to realize that Sci-Fi fans will probably pick BETWEEN the two games, and while the majority of the people in their forums are "assured" joins, it's not them they are trying to grab, it's new people that casually visit the site that they need to grab, and a non-intuitive, undermanned, and all around lacking site just isn't going to do it. :( I'm here, and will be here for the long haul, but I can guarantee that the "casual" players that both games are trying to grab, aren't going to hop into the ST experience after taking a look at even both sites main page side by side.

My biggest fear is that our concerns will go unrecognized, and they won't change their PR program, hurting their sales big time come release time, just because the biggest hype will have been generated for SWTOR, regardless of which is actually the better game...

[DracoPalin]

I have only one thing to say..........HOLY SITH that was Revan and Malak

[MKIceman]

I posted this in another thread but I think it's relevant here:

I agree that there is an impressively small amount of PR going on for Star Trek Online as compared to, say, any LucasArts title. I can think of a few possible reasons:

1) It's Star Trek, which has always had a much more canon-oriented fanbase than Star Wars. Star Wars introduced the concept of 'retcon', not to mention that Star Wars makes a point not to mention real-world science or politics, and so Star Wars fans are generally much more forgiving when something new is created in their universe.

So even the smallest detail that Cryptic releases about Star Trek Online will generate huge amounts of scrutiny from Star Trek fans... Just look around at the other posts for confirmation of that. :)

2) Atari is creating an 'awkward' environment for Cryptic: they -need- this to be a success, but the project's future might depend upon the success of earlier releases (like the upcoming 'Ghostbusters'). While the game is still subject to change, along with release dates and just about everything else, PR has to be even more careful than usual to avoid over-inflated hype (and unrealistic expectations) while also maintaining enough hype to keep gamers' interest high. If release is still half a year away, the last thing they want is to drive impatient or unsatisfied potential customers to SW:TOR, for example. And if earlier releases like 'Ghostbusters' bomb, Atari and Cryptic need to be prepared to deflect any negative PR that might arise about Star Trek Online. (Think of how poorly everyone now views Sony Online Entertainment.)

There are also budget concerns as a result of this situation, so perhaps PR just isn't as high priority on their agenda right now while the game is still being developed.

3) CBS/Paramount is providing guidelines or rules for Cryptic PR to follow. If they want to maintain whatever agenda they have for the new film franchise and followup marketing and merchandising, they will understandably want Star Trek Online to keep a relatively low profile until the popularity peaks (or just before).


I agree that a few screenshots now and then are very good for the game and the community alike, but I also think that Cryptic's current pace of releases is well planned and well executed. Hype ahead of time can be very good for pre-order and launch profits, but if the product bombs afterward, the failure is much more memorable in gamers' minds than any future success will be. (Again, think of Sony Online Entertainment.)

EDIT: Just a disclaimer that these are my own speculations only. I'm sure Cryptic themselves can tell you better. :)



I will add to this thread that the main reason for the PR hype over SW:TOR is to reclaim disgruntled SW:G players. LucasArts has a long way to go to get over the stigma of their failed MMORPG, so they will want to generate as much PR content about the new one as they can.

For this reason, neither Atari nor Cryptic needs to compete with SW:TOR in these early stages, in my opinion.

[AtomicNerd]

Let's face it ... the one thing that Lucas and Bioware DO understand quite well ... and that is marketing. Wheather that be toys, models or games, they do a very fine job in that department.

Of course. George Lucas is basically the father of modern merchandising and tie-ins. That’s how they keep making great money on crappy games. They’ve realized a bad product with good advertising can sell just as well as any good product with insufficient advertising. Not that they think they have a bad product but they know they’re going to make plenty of money before the reviews come out so no need to bend over backwards on production.

Now imagine a better game with a better IP with a website that looked half as good as the SW:TOR one does.

If people put star trek online in a search engine they’ll end up finding a site that looks like a fan made it and they’ll keep looking for the actual website. It isn’t the 90s. A library of text pages and bio’s of the people making the game doesn’t really inspire a lot of excitement for a sci-fi game about technological adventures in the future.

I agree completely with Janaus that the mods here do a good job and this is a good forum but forums are usually a compliment to a website not the entire scope of the advertising plan.

[MKIceman]

That’s how they keep making great money on crappy games. They’ve realized a bad product with good advertising can sell just as well as any good product with insufficient advertising. Not that they think they have a bad product but they know they’re going to make plenty of money before the reviews come out so no need to bend over backwards on production.
I agree. Here is something I had posted in a different thread about Blizzard's success:

Most still continue to play it if only for lack of anything better. Most of the other MMOs failed to 'break' WoW because they were either 1) too similar to WoW (why buy a lesser knockoff when you can pay almost the same amount for the real thing?) or 2) failed to advertise and market well. WoW has TV commercials with celebrities, along with viral marketing and word-of-mouth advertising. It might not be the best product, but it is the best-selling, because Blizzard knows how to market it.

Star Trek has always had a massive fan base, and the new movie's popularity creates an even bigger marketing potential for Star Trek Online. This means that Star Trek Online -- even if it fails to be as good a product as it claims to be -- will already win the marketing contest against WoW.


I will add this. With a new successful film raking in the profits and the fans, Star Trek Online can afford to wait a little longer, until more things are certain (like release dates), before doing a PR blitz.

[AtomicNerd]

I agree. Here is something I had posted in a different thread about Blizzard's success:

Most still continue to play it if only for lack of anything better. Most of the other MMOs failed to 'break' WoW because they were either 1) too similar to WoW (why buy a lesser knockoff when you can pay almost the same amount for the real thing?) or 2) failed to advertise and market well. WoW has TV commercials with celebrities, along with viral marketing and word-of-mouth advertising. It might not be the best product, but it is the best-selling, because Blizzard knows how to market it.

Star Trek has always had a massive fan base, and the new movie's popularity creates an even bigger marketing potential for Star Trek Online. This means that Star Trek Online -- even if it fails to be as good a product as it claims to be -- will already win the marketing contest against WoW.


I will add this. With a new successful film raking in the profits and the fans, Star Trek Online can afford to wait a little longer, until more things are certain (like release dates), before doing a PR blitz.


I don’t think they even need to spend the kind of money TV advertising costs. WOW didn’t start with that kind of PR budget they earned it over time with the revenue that came with a successful product. Half the appeal of web advertising is it’s relatively cheap. You just need to be creative with what you have available.

Somewhere between Mr. T talking about being a night elf Mohawk in primetime and a webpage that reads like book report there’s a lot of real options and potential.

[vp21ct]

I don’t think they even need to spend the kind of money TV advertising costs. WOW didn’t start with that kind of PR budget they earned it over time with the revenue that came with a successful product. Half the appeal of web advertising is it’s relatively cheap. You just need to be creative with what you have available.

Somewhere between Mr. T talking about being a night elf Mohawk in primetime and a webpage that reads like book report there’s a lot of real options and potential.

"I'm William Shatner, And I'm the Captain of the Enterprise."

[eNDIE]

Competition doesn't start until one or the other of the games is actually physically making money off of you. I would hope for your sake if all you can afford to play is one game or the other is that you know what you are buying into before you make a purchasing decision. Ie: find out at the very least what the gameplay and story elements will be like, and if the game will actually entertain you before you go whole hog for one or the other.



Really? So Bioware didn't hire an art department, software developement department, and a marketing department to make that video? Please tell me how this is done because if i can convince people to work for me for free i'll be able to develope the MMO that i have on my mind. ;-)

Btw, no offence intended by my sarcasm, but you do need to do your homework on MMO developement. I've worked on the sidelines of MMO's and everything they do costs money. You have to pay hourly wages, not to mention operating costs just to produce the smallest things in an MMO, so those videos do indeed cost money.

I think he ment that it will be used in the game so no extra cash has been used just to make this trailer.

[Rillanor]

SWTOR will find itself running into problems when they enter beta and run into setbacks, can't release on time, and have a massive gap between what and when they gave out info at the begining, and what and when they gave out near the end.

WoW that is a rather sweeping statement... may I look into your crystal ball too!

So basically you are saying STO will have none of the above problems due to their limited hype and keeping everything under wraps!

Maybe the truth is Cryptic actually DON'T have anything to show! There that's my sweeping and probably inaccurate statement!

[dinendae]

So basically you are saying STO will have none of the above problems due to their limited hype and keeping everything under wraps!

In the context of broken promises, yes.

[Rillanor]

In the context of broken promises, yes.

This is why I never listen to hype! I judge a game when I play it and not before... I do have expectations, but they are my own expectation and for the most part realistic I think :D

All games make promises! Whether people want to take them as fact is completely up to the individual... but the old adage of 'buyer beware' also applies to the developement of MMO's: Buy into the hype, then beware of disappointment!

[tonymetpolice]

TOR has had lots of very snazy media updates (which you would expect with lucas arts helping them) videos from the developers showing live game footage running, lots of information and background and various planets and two classes announced with a third out next week.


STO is probably relaesing just as much but they are doing it in a much "drier" way. just text and some static screen shots. i think to keep people interested they need to liven things up abit.......

some ingame footage and maybe a taped interview with the developers about some aspects of the game with the footage being shown would help

[Galv]

I posted this in another thread but I think it's relevant here:

I agree that there is an impressively small amount of PR going on for Star Trek Online as compared to, say, any LucasArts title. I can think of a few possible reasons:

1) It's Star Trek, which has always had a much more canon-oriented fanbase than Star Wars. Star Wars introduced the concept of 'retcon', not to mention that Star Wars makes a point not to mention real-world science or politics, and so Star Wars fans are generally much more forgiving when something new is created in their universe.

So even the smallest detail that Cryptic releases about Star Trek Online will generate huge amounts of scrutiny from Star Trek fans... Just look around at the other posts for confirmation of that. :)

2) Atari is creating an 'awkward' environment for Cryptic: they -need- this to be a success, but the project's future might depend upon the success of earlier releases (like the upcoming 'Ghostbusters'). While the game is still subject to change, along with release dates and just about everything else, PR has to be even more careful than usual to avoid over-inflated hype (and unrealistic expectations) while also maintaining enough hype to keep gamers' interest high. If release is still half a year away, the last thing they want is to drive impatient or unsatisfied potential customers to SW:TOR, for example. And if earlier releases like 'Ghostbusters' bomb, Atari and Cryptic need to be prepared to deflect any negative PR that might arise about Star Trek Online. (Think of how poorly everyone now views Sony Online Entertainment.)

There are also budget concerns as a result of this situation, so perhaps PR just isn't as high priority on their agenda right now while the game is still being developed.

3) CBS/Paramount is providing guidelines or rules for Cryptic PR to follow. If they want to maintain whatever agenda they have for the new film franchise and followup marketing and merchandising, they will understandably want Star Trek Online to keep a relatively low profile until the popularity peaks (or just before).


I agree that a few screenshots now and then are very good for the game and the community alike, but I also think that Cryptic's current pace of releases is well planned and well executed. Hype ahead of time can be very good for pre-order and launch profits, but if the product bombs afterward, the failure is much more memorable in gamers' minds than any future success will be. (Again, think of Sony Online Entertainment.)

EDIT: Just a disclaimer that these are my own speculations only. I'm sure Cryptic themselves can tell you better. :)



I will add to this thread that the main reason for the PR hype over SW:TOR is to reclaim disgruntled SW:G players. LucasArts has a long way to go to get over the stigma of their failed MMORPG, so they will want to generate as much PR content about the new one as they can.

For this reason, neither Atari nor Cryptic needs to compete with SW:TOR in these early stages, in my opinion.

Alot of these points worry me, the cannon issue has been IMO a major thorn in the side of Star Trek for a start i think it scares new fans off and is the cause of most ST's bad image and secoundly it almost ruined the new film. Plus there won't be a greater time to get the hype going off the back of the new movie once the summer blockbuster are out (with todays kids and there were loads of kids watching the new movie) ST will be forgotten about. I didn't know anything about STO until i stumbled across a youtube video of last years ST Vegas thingy and even then i was only watching the video because Mr Nimoy and Mr Quinto we're mentioned and i was curious about the new movie. Even my partner(who hates star trek) having looked at the STO video and screen shots said "it looks better than that TNG crap".

[DarkBarron]

Well we are still talking about at least 6-8 months before release. I would say hype it up for the last 2 months. People get bored easy and if you give them to much too soon they will blow thier wad too early :P Better to keep building the back story and give us a few tip bits here and there for now.

[Beaver8]

[ (There is no spoon)
OK there Keanu :p

I agree though that although that cinematic trailer was just that, not actual gameplay and a product of a large budget to create a video like that. DANG though that video made my arm hair stand on end it was awesome.

It was a flashy video and stuff like that does indeed attact people and get them more interested in a game. I linked it to a few of my friends even and they all said "OMG when does the game come out". I wish I could link a new video from STO to get them excited about this game even more though.

I believe in such a competitive market nice flashy videos like this are exactly what helps bring in subscribers early on and Cryptic probably should retaliate in some form with some visual candy of their own.

We have all been pleading for more videos and now would probably be the time to get the word out and lure some people away from SWTOR and back to STO.

[SelorKiith]

Nice flashy videos attracts Neander... Nice flashy Videos cool... no have to make other games... only nice flashy videos *bangs on a skull with a bone*

*coughs*

I don't think there is any need for Cryptic to go down into the fight with ILM, Bioware and LucasArts... in terms of Eye Candy and flashy Videos, they cannot compete against the combined powers of those three... they should remain in the realm of seriousness and don't go the 'Flashy Hype' Way, TOR has obviously to go to attract people...

[AtomicNerd]

For me it’s not even the vid. Look at either of these pages.
http://swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/trooper
http://swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances/sith-empire
If you take out all the moving 3d stuff and blinking lights and you have a great page. Clear informative visually appealing description pages. And I now know more about the SW bounty hunter profession than what my own science officer will be able to do.

Not even going by this site, look at the CO site which is for a game that’s about three months from launch. It’s almost identical to this site except for the coloring.

[Condemnation]

Nice flashy videos attracts Neander... Nice flashy Videos cool... no have to make other games... only nice flashy videos *bangs on a skull with a bone*

*coughs*

I don't think there is any need for Cryptic to go down into the fight with ILM, Bioware and LucasArts... in terms of Eye Candy and flashy Videos, they cannot compete against the combined powers of those three... they should remain in the realm of seriousness and don't go the 'Flashy Hype' Way, TOR has obviously to go to attract people...

Unfair, but i can understand where its coming from.

I agree to an extent, but i think that if your going to release almost no information at all, people will just assume you don't have much. I'm frankly running out of things to talk about on this board. No offense to the mods but they would squash a lot of the rumor and assumptions around here by just releasing some information. No one is asking them to compete with the Lucas machine, but nor can they just ignore it ether. Moderation is the key here, release some of the actual data.

Now if the problem is that they just don't have anything set in stone, then the "assumed" release dates of Q4 09 are completely wrong and the game is still a year or so off. Even telling us that would give us some measure of what is and isn't ready.

[DanSeale]

Of course. George Lucas is basically the father of modern merchandising and tie-ins. That’s how they keep making great money on crappy games. They’ve realized a bad product with good advertising can sell just as well as any good product with insufficient advertising. Not that they think they have a bad product but they know they’re going to make plenty of money before the reviews come out so no need to bend over backwards on production.

Now imagine a better game with a better IP with a website that looked half as good as the SW:TOR one does.

If people put star trek online in a search engine they’ll end up finding a site that looks like a fan made it and they’ll keep looking for the actual website. It isn’t the 90s. A library of text pages and bio’s of the people making the game doesn’t really inspire a lot of excitement for a sci-fi game about technological adventures in the future.

I agree completely with Janaus that the mods here do a good job and this is a good forum but forums are usually a compliment to a website not the entire scope of the advertising plan.


IMHO this is one of those "the lesser of two evils" sort of observation. It takes time MONEY and obviously the personel to generate both a good production trailer and a first class web site. This is also the very thing I have told my son who is a web master ... and he is not listiening either . Consequently his work (award winning I might add) has gradually tapered off. Like it or not in the realm of this type of media things change. It is very important to things that do get the attention of BOTH the casual customer ... and those who are looking for something that "grabs" their attention.

Somewhere in the middle of all of this is that happy median for those in the position of responsibility at Cryptic to make the right call. Do nothing and games like TOR will push ahead. Expend too much of the needed resources for development and that will hurt as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that I personally realize that there is more to this than meets the eye. Too bad Paramount couldn't spring for a little $$$ to assist in the advertising dept. I know they wont .. just saying .. I wish they would.

[Huutini]

Yeah, the trailer's great. So is the WAR Trailer. And the AoC Intro rocks da House!

Won't change anything, that ingame, TOR will still be 1on1 "peew", wait, "crush", wait, "boing", wait, "peew PEEW", wait, "zzzzrt", wait... fighting as in any other MMO.

Trailers often catch the eyes (As this one surely does) but NEVER the feel of fighting. By now, I get pretty wary when trailers like this get released 2 years ahead of release! If often promises a lame fighting system and another WoW clone.

And better Cryptic works on a good game than on mindless (yet good looking) trailers that do nothing more than water your eyes, have nothing to do with the gamestyle and pull out resources best poured into the game...

[Loekii]

I will add to this thread that the main reason for the PR hype over SW:TOR is to reclaim disgruntled SW:G players. LucasArts has a long way to go to get over the stigma of their failed MMORPG, so they will want to generate as much PR content about the new one as they can.

For this reason, neither Atari nor Cryptic needs to compete with SW:TOR in these early stages, in my opinion.

While I think there will be some sWG backlash, the fact that it is Bioware, whose Star Wars games have been widely accepted as successful, will greatly mitigate the negative memories of SWG.

I think their forum is clear indication of that likelihood. Their forums are more popular than STO forums - and their game is still more than a year and a half away from launch (barring unforeseen delays).

Imo, I think it is unwise for STO to 'relax' and bank on getting 'trekkies' to subscribe en masse to STO. They should be treating STO as if it were some unlicensed Sci-Fi MMORPG, and work to capture as many gamers as they can, to ensure a sustaining profit margin.

[Loekii]

In the context of broken promises, yes.

I can see that being the case for things not already said, but what about things already mentioned in interviews and articles?

There is already a lot of stuff 'out there' that they cannot take back. Hopefully not all that stuff is still 'up in the air', so they should be able to post some PR content about it -- ie Information tabs about:

The Two Factions
Gameplay (Space and ground)
Players being Captains
Crew being Bridge Pets
Races (which faction, etc)


They should have enough graphic material to be giving us weekly screenshots (if not almost daily).

Again, I do not men to sound harsh, but there is an expect level of performance that people tend to expect (especially when 'rival' products are providing it). In a sense, it seems like Cryptic satisfied with a lack luster presentation -- which to be honest, worries me.

For a rich and indepth game that was supposed to be released this fall, that certainly is not the message I am getting from their PR. To me, it seems like a game that is on shacky ground or still a year+ away. :(

[eNDIE]

I can see that being the case for things not already said, but what about things already mentioned in interviews and articles?

There is already a lot of stuff 'out there' that they cannot take back. Hopefully not all that stuff is still 'up in the air', so they should be able to post some PR content about it -- ie Information tabs about:

The Two Factions
Gameplay (Space and ground)
Players being Captains
Crew being Bridge Pets
Races (which faction, etc)


They should have enough graphic material to be giving us weekly screenshots (if not almost daily).

Again, I do not men to sound harsh, but there is an expect level of performance that people tend to expect (especially when 'rival' products are providing it). In a sense, it seems like Cryptic satisfied with a lack luster presentation -- which to be honest, worries me.

For a rich and indepth game that was supposed to be released this fall, that certainly is not the message I am getting from their PR. To me, it seems like a game that is on shacky ground or still a year+ away. :(

I agree , and if they are planning a launch q4 this year they should start to hype the game alittle atleast. If they dont have anything set in stone by now its more likely to launch q2 or 3 next year.

[Alfie-Fandango]

Didn't you here?

They are to be merging the 2 games together!

So quit yo jibba jabba...

[zeena07]

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.
I dun agree.

Because Star Trek fans will be 'Star Trek' fans ;)
And if they're Star Wars fans as well, then, I suppose they'd pay for both games ;)

[vp21ct]

Another important thing, this is cryptic after all.

Over the monts of keeping tabs on STO and CO, I have learned that Cryptic lives up to their name, for whatever reason, and that they have a reputation involving being just that. Bioware (and primarily Lucasarts) have a reputation for flashy press relaeases. This is Bioware's debut into the MMO world after decades of RPG fame. They are one of the biggest names in the WRPG world, and have had constant sucsess since Baldur's gate. Anything they do will be noticed, and adding the SW name will take things to a whole new level of people paying attention. If they weren't releasing information as regularly as they were, they would be a lot worse of in PR than Cyptic is.

Cryptic, on the other hand, isn't as well known. Yeah, they are the best people when it comes to character customization, and they did make the first ever Super Hero mmo, but they aren't the biggest name in the industry. And there's also the IP their working with. Star Trek has always used secrecy in its PR. The new movie is the most recent example of that working (to stunning effect). As such, Trekkies have learned to be a bit more pacient with our goodies than Warsies have. (How long did we have to wait for games like BC and KA, and how long have we waited for STO to even be anounced.)

And also remember, CO is months from launch. their updates have been rapid fire compared to what they usually have been, and this isn't their big hit game. I doubt anyone on either forum will dispute the fact that STO is going to be Cryptic's biggest game between the two, it simply already has a well established fan base to back it up, along with a growing amount of people who are interested because of the new movie(s). STO will undoubtldly get more PR once Champions launches, and will also likely have some good reveals as Launch aproaces.

[inXi]

I do not believe STO requires that kind of promotion or should be directly compared to SW: TOR in the first place. I'd be perfectly fine with a game that has no cinematic trailers whatsoever but great gameplay.

I'm looking at SW: TOR and I feel it can fail due to lack of innovation. STO offers something new. And that's basically what's going to decide if a MMO can stay alive. Cinematic trailers may provide a kickoff point but they won't make or break the game (see WAR).

[Captain_Smith]

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

Patients, we will be rewarded soon.

[Ballping]

For anyone that needs some proof about how much work these extra PR things take, check out Rehkan's statement in this thread.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=20858

Also, everyone in this thread needs to go over there and thank Rehkan and the art department for taking the extra time to give us those goodies.

Just saying.

[Rillanor]

I'm looking at SW: TOR and I feel it can fail due to lack of innovation. STO offers something new...

WoW yet another sweeping statement based on... NOTHING!

Look it's this simple... Until you directly experience the gameplay of one or the other or even both... you have absolutely NO IDEA what the gameplay of either game will be like or whether indeed either game brings any NEW Innovations!

I have faith that Cryptic will pull off a great game, but I also believe Bioware will release an equally great game... Bioware are one of the best games developers in the business.

[vp21ct]

WoW yet another sweeping statement based on... NOTHING!

Look it's this simple... Until you directly experience the gameplay of one or the other or even both... you have absolutely NO IDEA what the gameplay of either game will be like or whether indeed either game brings any NEW Innovations!

I have faith that Cryptic will pull off a great game, but I also believe Bioware will release an equally great game... Bioware are one of the best games developers in the business.

Wow, that sounded really..... snide.

Surely you could have said that better.

[Rillanor]

Wow, that sounded really..... snide.

Surely you could have said that better.

If it came across snide then I apologise to InXi... I wasn't meant that way. Honest. :D

I was more annoyed so sorry, it's just these damn human emotions :p

[inXi]

WoW yet another sweeping statement based on... NOTHING!Surely you must be one of the 237 Scanners? My statement is based on long-term examination of games that succeed, and games that fail, especially directly in relation to myself, especially MMO's. I knew that Hellgate would fail while everyone else was saying how successful it's going to be...

I am not saying what will happen but rather what is expected to happen if STO and SW: TOR continue on the same path they are right now. And I am not biased. I prefer SW over ST because I've seen very little of Star Trek so far.

Look it's this simple... Until you directly experience the gameplay of one or the other or even both... you have absolutely NO IDEA what the gameplay of either game will be like or whether indeed either game brings any NEW Innovations!That is false.

Wow, that sounded really..... snide.Either you guys are really nice or the moderators here are really strict, I'm used to much worse comments... xD That was a perfectly normal argumentative comment in my eyes.

[Ballping]

Either you guys are really nice or either the moderators here are really strict, I'm used to much worse comments... xD That was a perfectly normal argumentative comment in my eyes.

You'll find that generally you have adult, constructive posters on this forum who try to help keep the misinformation down to a minimum on this site.







And then you'll meet someone like me. ;-p

Just kidding.

[vp21ct]

Either you guys are really nice or the moderators here are really strict, I'm used to much worse comments... xD That was a perfectly normal argumentative comment in my eyes.

Really most of the time we're all about as friendly as the goody-two-shoes federation, even the klingon players (though there sometimes the two groups don't always get along between them).

And often if you just point out that someone might have been a little more rude here it gets cleared up later. I myself have even had to clear things up a few times, and I'm about as two shoes as they get.

[Deathclock]

I don't understand how people can feel like STO has nothing to worry about. I want to play both of these games. I have followed STO more closely. I think it will be the game that takes most of my time. & before the video I wasn't actually sure if I was going to plat TOR. But after that video, I am more excited for TOR then I am for STO, & I still want STO more. I feel so confused :confused:

It just seems to me that Cryptic is so confident that people are so excited about STO, that they don't need to do anything. People are impulsive, if you get there attention its not hard to keep it if your competition isn't competing. & I don't care what you say, TOR is competition. If I couldn't afford to play both of these games, I would be going insane trying to decide which one I'm going to play.

I know the video means nothing. But its exciting. I would like to feel the same way about STO :(

[MKIceman]

I don't understand how people can feel like STO has nothing to worry about.
I don't believe anyone feels that Star Trek Online has -nothing- to worry about. I just think that many of us have been fooled by media hype in the past, especially where Star Wars is concerned. And we have also seen the Star Trek franchise dwindle almost to nothing and then come back at the drop of a hat (well, big-budget movie).

So many of us just have faith that CBS/Paramount, Atari, and Cryptic will take the opportunity when they see it and not play copycat with competitors.

[Deathclock]

I don't believe anyone feels that Star Trek Online has -nothing- to worry about. I just think that many of us have been fooled by media hype in the past, especially where Star Wars is concerned. And we have also seen the Star Trek franchise dwindle almost to nothing and then come back at the drop of a hat (well, big-budget movie).

So many of us just have faith that CBS/Paramount, Atari, and Cryptic will take the opportunity when they see it and not play copycat with competitors.

I understand your point. But people are impulsive. I understand that games in the past have pumped people up in the past, just to be let down. I am also have faith in CBS/Paramount, Atari, and Cryptic. But if STO is going to be as good as eceryone thinks it is, then what would it hurt makeing a cinamatic video to pump people up about thier game? & maybe even get some more attention.

[zeena07]

Cuzz it;s too soon for that mahaps?

I dun doubt they'll be playing the hype game come 3 or 4 months from release.

But with the economy as it is atm, people might just forget about it after a few months and opt to think about stuff that matters in the meantime..

Star Trek online isn't set for release until what? 2010?

http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/06/01/star-trek-online-release-date-in-ataris-latest-financial-report/

That's when I'm expecting it anyways-hehe

Lotsa time to do a good job right ;)

[MKIceman]

But if STO is going to be as good as eceryone thinks it is, then what would it hurt makeing a cinamatic video to pump people up about thier game? & maybe even get some more attention.
Well, the potential gain would be hype.

The potential loss would be budget, time, and hype (which others have labelled 'broken promises').

I bet Cryptic are already making a video, if they do not already have one, and are merely on a different timetable than what we expect. After all, such a video would be necessary at some point for advertising, let alone as an in-game trailer or introduction.

But it is unreasonable to assume that they would have one ready to release at the same time as a competitor's release, unless they want to be accused of industrial espionage. We should also remember that releasing a video shortly after a competitor release looks a lot like direct, aggressive, and reactionary competition. I'm sure Atari and Cryptic would not want to go down that path with LucasArts and BioWare, at least not until Star Trek Online is released.

So, who says they will never be releasing a cinematic video? Who says it will not be within the next month or two? Only Cryptic can. We should just keep our eyes open. :)

[Deathclock]

Cuzz it;s too soon for that mahaps?

I dun doubt they'll be playing the hype game come 3 or 4 months from release.

But with the economy as it is atm, people might just forget about it after a few months and opt to think about stuff that matters in the meantime..

Star Trek online isn't set for release until what? 2010?
That's when I'm expecting it anyways-hehe

Lotsa time to do a good job right ;)

All I can do is speak for myself, but I follow a game from the second I hear about them till they release. I also understand most people don't have allot of disposable income right now, but even when my family & I were on hard times, I still found a way to buy WOW and play it for years.

Also I'm hoping they can meet their goal of a trying to get it out for the holidays.

[zeena07]

We should just keep our eyes open. :)And open we shall!

[With toothpicks, if necessary ::D]

[SirReginaldo]

I just think it is weird that that Lucas Arts would fail at making a mmo and pull a Nintendo and get someone else to make the game. Its like that new Metroid game, that is being made by Team Ninja dudes:eek: That sounds like one of the coolest games ever:D
If only I had a WII.... I shall go to my brothers house one day and steal his;)

[Deathclock]

Well, the potential gain would be hype.

The potential loss would be budget, time, and hype (which others have labelled 'broken promises').

I bet Cryptic are already making a video, if they do not already have one, and are merely on a different timetable than what we expect. After all, such a video would be necessary at some point for advertising, let alone as an in-game trailer or introduction.

But it is unreasonable to assume that they would have one ready to release at the same time as a competitor's release, unless they want to be accused of industrial espionage. We should also remember that releasing a video shortly after a competitor release looks a lot like direct, aggressive, and reactionary competition. I'm sure Atari and Cryptic would not want to go down that path with LucasArts and BioWare, at least not until Star Trek Online is released.

So, who says they will never be releasing a cinematic video? Who says it will not be within the next month or two? Only Cryptic can. We should just keep our eyes open. :)

Yeah I guess so. But I still want one lol;)

[inXi]

If STO is a good game, there is nothing to worry about. Nothing. For me. I can elaborate.

If STO is a bad game... well, trust me, it's not SW: TOR's fault. :D

Trailers and the like are irrelevant. They can raise a company's revenue, but unless there's a separate unbothered trailer team in Cryptic, they WILL lower the quality of the game OR further its production. You cannot make trailers out of thin air. Hence, I'm against expensive marketing. Expensive marketing makes me suspicious. It's like a bright colored package. You know where they're spending their money. They benefit. You don't.

[zeena07]

If STO is a good game, there is nothing to worry about. Nothing. For me. I can elaborate.

If STO is a bad game... well, trust me, it's not SW: TOR's fault. :D

Trailers and the like are irrelevant. They can raise a company's revenue, but unless there's a separate unbothered trailer team in Cryptic, they WILL lower the quality of the game OR further its production. You cannot make trailers out of thin air. Hence, I'm against expensive marketing. Expensive marketing makes me suspicious. It's like a bright colored package. You know where they're spending their money. They benefit. You don't.Way ta take a stand for the game d00d :cool:

Less marketing=more money for development, tis a no-brainer :rolleyes:

[wrussandrews]

One has to be careful about hype. A game, a film, or a book seldom lives up to the hype.

Too much hype can leave a feeling of dissapointment, no matter how good the entertainment. Some people have already decided they will not like it.

Consider the Lord of the Rings films. Good movies, with a lot of material cut out. A co-worker denounced them all saying "they ruined it" for all three. Why go see the following two if you hated the first one? The truth is that he had made up his mind. Irrational, but you will see a lot of this.

[zeena07]

One has to be careful about hype. A game, a film, or a book seldom lives up to the hype.

Too much hype can leave a feeling of dissapointment, no matter how good the entertainment. Some people have already decided they will not like it.

Consider the Lord of the Rings films. Good movies, with a lot of material cut out. A co-worker denounced them all saying "they ruined it" for all three. Why go see the following two if you hated the first one? The truth is that he had made up his mind. Irrational, but you will see a lot of this.ESPECIALLY when it comes to cult fan bases, like Star Trek-lol

Canon anyone? :o
[And here I thought Canon only referred to the body of Holy Writ!-ROFL!]

[DanSeale]

IMHO ...

Trailers do not make a game (regardless of how well done). There is no substitute for marketing and advertisement though BOTH must be kept in balance with budgets and other time tables. Other wise these can also be as harmful as good. There is no substitute for quality and contient in ANY game. All of us can list games that "looked promising" but turned out to be real duds and died shortly after release.

Amid all of the flash, and drama and yes even excitement of the TOR trailer we still need to stay focused on the real task at hand... the game.

I do believe that a fresh coat of paint and some updated information on the 'ol web site and Cryptic should be good to go !

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Meehile]

The way I see it, SW:TOR still has to catch up to STO in terms of in game released knowledge. Why do I say this? Well, TOR's trailer is cinematic, and as I stated previosuly has no bearing on actual game play at all. Its useless other than pumping up people who are easily sold anyway. STO has given us 2 trailers, one which shows space travel, and another that demonstrates character creation, both of which are trailers with in game mechanics displayed. We know a lot more about actual STO gameplay than we do about SW:TOR gameplay.

[Loekii]

I'm looking at SW: TOR and I feel it can fail due to lack of innovation. STO offers something new. And that's basically what's going to decide if a MMO can stay alive. Cinematic trailers may provide a kickoff point but they won't make or break the game (see WAR).

I disagree that 'new and innovative' are required for success.

WoW has been a continuing success, despite claims that is system is 'tired and old'. I would say that indicates that good gameplay is successful.

If SW:TOR is able to basically be 'WoW 2.0 in a Sci-Fi/Star Wars Skin', it will be successful.

Bioware+Kotor+StarWars all indicate success, innovative or not, imo.

Also, from what I recall, WAR had a good launch and I believe they have maintained a successful subscription numbers. Has that changed?

[Loekii]

The way I see it, SW:TOR still has to catch up to STO in terms of in game released knowledge. Why do I say this? Well, TOR's trailer is cinematic, and as I stated previosuly has no bearing on actual game play at all. Its useless other than pumping up people who are easily sold anyway. STO has given us 2 trailers, one which shows space travel, and another that demonstrates character creation, both of which are trailers with in game mechanics displayed. We know a lot more about actual STO gameplay than we do about SW:TOR gameplay.

The thing is, the STO information is SCATTERED all over the place, while the SW:TOR info is conveniently Organized on their Website.

Also, while I am not following SW:TOR Directly, I think they might have more information about their game, and certainly more media out there than STO (this is excluding the recent Cinematic). From what I recall, I think there were two "In Game" Videos of two classes already, not to mention the "In Game videos" they have on their site.

Comparing the Two Websites, STO seems like it is still in the Concept Phase, and is not due out for another year+.

[OddjobXL]

I think these titles are going to appeal to completely different kinds of gamers on one hand but heavy MMO players will probably dabble in both. I know a few of those myself that are buying each mainly because of the license without knowing much about what's going to be inside the box.

SW: TOR is going to draw mainly Star Wars fans looking for, as Loekii suggests, a WoW version of Star Wars. It will likely be everything SWG failed to be in terms of story oriented, setting rich, MMO goodness. But it won't be much that SWG was either. I doubt much of the pre NGE stuff we did like will make it in. I haven't even heard if there will be spaceflight or not.

I predict a LOTOR scale of success because that's what it will be most like.

STO's reaching a bit deeper. It will have storylines and a storyarc in the Episodic missions. It will have, instead of rather static sidekicks, a more dynamic collection of customizable bridge crew members. It's going to most definitely have space, and how, along with several modes of play including away teams, endless exploration, competitive PvE and crafting/engineering. There's a huge amount of customization to play around with both on crewmen and ships too. That's alot more meat on the bone in terms of pure gaming pound per dollar.

I predict a long term, rather remarkable, success for STO based both on the license and the gameplay if it's fully realized.

The players will come at first mainly for the license as Star Trek fans but many will be wary of the game for the very same reason. However, if they get out there and hit home how cool the options and variety will be in STO in overall gameplay then I think we'll see a broad mix of folks wandering in. Jaded Eve vets ready to leave, or who have already left, relentless and ruthless PvP behind them. SWG players looking for a new sci fi game with some depth but who weren't quite up for Eve because of the lack of avatars or the aforementioned PvP slant. Anyone who likes starships and characters in the same game. Casual PvPers who are interested in the variety of gameplay with PvP on the side. People who just would love to recreate old school party-based CRPGs in an MMO setting and can do it with ship's crews.

There's really quite a few folks out there who, when the get a whiff of what's going on here, will be lining up. At least if it all works the way I suspect it will.

[Loekii]

I disagree with you OddJob.

I actually see SW:TOR being the much bigger success again based upon the Bioware Kotor fanbase and reputation (which is similar to Blizzard) and the Star Wars franchise brand recognition.

I expect STO to be the one with a more niche or common MMO success (aka 200~400K maintained subscriptions).

Being frank again, while I see a lot of ideas that sound interesting for STO, I do not 'believe' in them until after I have seen them implemented into the game. I have seen Devs come up with great ideas, that never made it into their game, so I am somewhat skeptical about 'talk'.

To clarify, I am not calling Cryptic liars, but rather just acknowleding the reality of the difference between planning and actual delivery. There are always unforseen issues, that torpedo great ideas, thus removing them from retail.

[Elta_and_Zletha]

Anyone who is a true Star Trek fan won't give a flying Targ about Star Wars.

We don't like it.
Star Wars is just jumping around with a glowie stick and trying to kill people.
At least Star Trek is more civilized than that with peaceful exploration and meeting new alien life forms, rather than have ALL life forms in a galaxy far, far away battling for the greater good or evil.

I will wait for Star Trek. I don't care how good that cinematic movie is(and thats the other thing, its a movie... I assure you game play will NOT be like that).

Hate Star Wars. Love Star Trek. I will wait for ST:O

[BreachAndClear]

The thing is, the STO information is SCATTERED all over the place, while the SW:TOR info is conveniently Organized on their Website.

Also, while I am not following SW:TOR Directly, I think they might have more information about their game, and certainly more media out there than STO (this is excluding the recent Cinematic). From what I recall, I think there were two "In Game" Videos of two classes already, not to mention the "In Game videos" they have on their site.

Comparing the Two Websites, STO seems like it is still in the Concept Phase, and is not due out for another year+.

I agree with the first and last points in particular. STO has released a bunch of information in interviews, but it's scattered among different sites and you have to dig up links. And info that is readily available, like the Path to 2409 and Ask Cryptic pages could be organized better.

True, TOR is going to look nothing like that cinematic, just as WoW looks nothing like its cinematics, but they are still have much greater production value and are going to catch people's attention and get them hyped regardless. Bioware is also doing timeline updates like Cryptic is, but they are doing so in comic book format through a deal with Dark Horse (covering events leading up to the game) as well as through animated videos documenting the major events of the past (going backward in time). I've not played a game from Cryptic save for a CoX demo which left me unimpressed, Bioware on the other hand has left me impressed with every game of theirs that I've played, and Mass Effect 2 and TOR both are looking very promising.

On a console, I may by a sports game, and I may buy a FPS like Call of Duty. The games are nothing a like, and I don't think that the sales of one really effect the sales of another. They are completely different games, but a person might buy both. I like FPS games, but they are not by any means the only games I own. I like to play other types. TOR and STO might be different, but both being MMOs may inherently make them competitors unlike the example of a Madden football game and CoD. Whereas I can purchase both the football game and the FPS, $15 monthly fees would probably dissuade most people from buying both TOR and STO, different though they may be. And I must say that Bioware is a lot more effective at getting the peoples' attention. No it's not going to appeal to everyone, no matter the hype, but I think it will ultimately sell better than STO.

[inXi]

Anyone who is a true Star Trek fan won't give a flying Targ about Star Wars.Fans of multiple franchises are possible, and exist on this very forum.
I disagree that 'new and innovative' are required for success.Depends on what qualifies as success, I guess. I do not consider clones successful, but they do sell well. Success is legacy a game leaves behind. It's games that people play for 5 years or more. Clones leave no such legacy.
[COLOR="Olive"]WoW has been a continuing success, despite claims that is system is 'tired and old'.False claims. WoW is innovative, regardless of how invisible it may be to people.
I would say that indicates that good gameplay is successful.Good gameplay = different gameplay = innovation. It doesn't have to be big and loud, it can be pretty subtle, but if you see a good game, I bet it had some innovation. You'd be surprised how some tiny little detail in a game can change the gameplay.
If SW:TOR is able to basically be 'WoW 2.0 in a Sci-Fi/Star Wars Skin', it will be successful.I doubt that. There is WoW already. And I don't see people dropping WoW.
Bioware+Kotor+StarWars all indicate success, innovative or not, imo.All the indicate is hype. Which may sell the game, but not make it a success.
Also, from what I recall, WAR had a good launch and I believe they have maintained a successful subscription numbers. Has that changed?It has changed last time I was around. People were simply leaving the WAR servers.

https://realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/Index.war
I swear it had MUCH more servers at launch... I was there at launch.

[Rillanor]

Anyone who is a true Star Trek fan won't give a flying Targ about Star Wars.

We don't like it.
Star Wars is just jumping around with a glowie stick and trying to kill people.
At least Star Trek is more civilized than that with peaceful exploration and meeting new alien life forms, rather than have ALL life forms in a galaxy far, far away battling for the greater good or evil.

I will wait for Star Trek. I don't care how good that cinematic movie is(and thats the other thing, its a movie... I assure you game play will NOT be like that).

Hate Star Wars. Love Star Trek. I will wait for ST:O

So I can't be a true (40 years a fan btw) Star Trek fan because I also love Star Wars!

If that post was a joke - Then lol, if it wasn't, then grow up! I love ST and I do give a flying Targ about SW!

[BreachAndClear]

So I can't be a true (40 years a fan btw) Star Trek fan because I also love Star Wars!

If that post was a joke - Then lol, if it wasn't, then grow up! I love ST and I do give a flying Targ about SW!

I agree. STO and SW aren't at all alike, aside from having the same staples (faster than light travel, space ships, aliens, etc.) Aside from that, they are completely different. It's apples and oranges. I like both apples and oranges, and I will buy both and consume both. Now when it comes to yellow bananas and red bananas, they are similar to the extent that the slight preference of one over another will keep me from ever buying the lesser variety.

If Star Wars and Star Trek were similar, with Star Trek being better, then I could see people passing over Star Wars completely, as being some lesser knock off, but they are completely different. I don't have to denounce one when I am the fan of the other. Just because I like a show that takes place in an optimistic future and is about ethical dilemmas, team work, and striving for self betterment; that doesn't mean that I can't like a story about the hero's journey, the war between good and evil, using power responsibly, and mystical powers and mythological elements in a galaxy that is not our own. It's like saying that no true Star Trek fan would care about Lord of the Rings. The two are nothing alike!

[pr1983]

i love both (i even loved wars first), i just love trek just that little bit more...

STO is fine. that trailer for TOR was awesome, but it doesn't change the minds of all the Trek fans dying to play STO.

A few more trailers wouldnt hurt though, cryptic...:p

[Tribbler]

http://swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

This video means nothing. But who having watched it didn't get excited? How many people that were on the fence before, leaning towards STO, but still open to SWTOR, just felt like leaning the other way? Bioware releases new videos, information, etc. all the time. Cryptic gives us, very few screen shots, little game info, & 1 video of game play that is quite old.

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

I know there are gonna be people that try to tell me that they are telling us and showing us everything they have. You cant honestly believe that. If this is everything they have, then this game in nothing but an idea. (There is no spoon)

The way I feel, is after that video, I will be playing both of these games.

No, for me, they are both great stories.

Star Trek gives me hope for the future of mankind.

Star Wars is a classic Good VS Evil story involving 2 perspectives.

Both great and I am a fan of both. I will continue to be a fan, but I will play whats fun for me.

[Elta_and_Zletha]

So I can't be a true (40 years a fan btw) Star Trek fan because I also love Star Wars!

If that post was a joke - Then lol, if it wasn't, then grow up! I love ST and I do give a flying Targ about SW!

This was mostly to the OP who is concerned that if Cryptic doensn't "1up the competition", its Star Trek fan base will move on to Star Wars.

I'm not saying that you can't like both, I'm saying that if you're a true fan of Star Trek, then a new Star Wars game isn't going to pull you away from it.

It sounds like this post was mostly from a gamer perspective, in that the OP just wants to play an MMO as soon as one is released, regardless of what it is.

[Ensign.Ricky]

Pish - posh. Trailers and websites are all dress up for games when it comes down to it.

"hokey religion and ancient weapons are no match for a [variable peak phaser rifle set to vaporize] at your side, kid"

[BreachAndClear]

[COLOR="Plum"]I'm not saying that you can't like both, I'm saying that if you're a true fan of Star Trek, then a new Star Wars game isn't going to pull you away from it.]

While that is most likely true, and I personally do not dispute this, I don't know how well STO would do depending only on "true Star Trek fans" for subscriptions. Zinc has made several references to making a game that appeals to people that aren't necessarily big fans of the show, or may have never seen an episode. But to me, all the appeal of this game and the hype, etc. is being directed back to the "true Star Trek fans" who are almost certainly going to buy the game anyway. Bioware may not rob STO of the "true Star Trek fans" but they might win over fans that like both franchises and are unwilling or can't afford to pay $30 monthly for two MMOs, or those non-fans that may have potentially purchased STO anyway simply for being a good game, if it had not been for TOR. When KOTOR was released, there were quite a few people reviewing the game that loved that game who were not particular huge fans of the SW films, or who strongly suggested the game even for those who may not be too fond of the films. They took an intellectual property and developed a game that they were able to make appealing to those that weren't too fond of the property itself. I don't know if Cryptic has been doing all that they could to hype the game to attract those kinds of people, but rather keep reinforcing the faith of the "true Star Trek fans."

This is somewhat apparent in the word choice. Bioware is emphasizing story, companion characters, that all classes and factions will offer very different gaming experiences. These are generic concepts that could be incorporated into any IP that Bioware was given to work with, and that anybody, SW fan or not can understand. Companions? Sweet. Story? Awesome. No redundant content? Yay.

Cryptic in contrast seems to make greater reference to specifics that only ST fans are going to understand: E.G. (this isn't an exact quote) "You'll start with a Miranda class ship, and eventually work your way up to larger ships like the Galaxy class or Intrepid class. You can't have a Star Trek game with out the iconic Intrepid class from Voyager. Though there won't be variable pylons at launch. You'll be able to visit places like Deep Space Nine. The Borg will invade different regions and players will have to work together to repel them. Space will be huge and there will be transwarp gateways to help players get around, after all this takes place 30 years after Nemesis." All this is candy to the ST fan that actually knows what it being talked about, but what about to someone with only a vague understanding of ST? What's a Miranda class? What's a Galaxy class? What's Deep Space Nine? What are the Borg? What's Nemesis? etc. The Borg? Yay? Cryptic should play to it's strengths as well as to the strengths of the IP and emphasize customization, exploration, etc. all the while dumbing info related to plot down a bit (leave the geekier tid bits here, don't emphasize them in an interview where the readers might not have a clue as to what you're talking about). I mean, even specifying that Nemesis was the last ST film could go a long way to easing understanding rather than simply saying "30 years after Nemesis" and leaving it at that, when the reader might not know if Nemesis is an event in the ST canon, a film, a series, or know the place of said event, film, or series within the continuity.

[Father_Origin]

I will never play a Star War MMO ever again, regardless of whom puts it out...they could give me
a free lifetime subscription and I would never load it.

SOE / LA Destroyed my creature handler that I spent a very long time developing

without warning

in my view, the star wars ip needs to die.



so do I even want to waste my time watching a trailer for it...no

[Elta_and_Zletha]

I will never play a Star War MMO ever again, regardless of whom puts it out...they could give me
a free lifetime subscription and I would never load it.

SOE / LA Destroyed my creature handler that I spent a very long time developing

without warning

in my view, the star wars ip needs to die.



so do I even want to waste my time watching a trailer for it...no

*Zletha hugs Father_Origin* lol! XD

[stevek765]

I for one am getting fed up of coming on this site every day, hoping for something new to look at(not read about) for a change.I really wanna see something different. I dont care wat all you silly nieve people keep saying about you'd rather cryptic spent more time on the game rather then feed there fans some new pics or vids. i and alot of members wanna know whether we are waisting our time or not. especially after all the great things to come outta E3 this week. IL still be eager to get my hands on this game even if cryptic dont answer my prayers but come on we need something hardcore and solid to chat about instead of all the usuall speculation talk that we all keep doing.it was fun but now its boring becuase we all know that no one has really got a clue about anything to expect. Its like we are waiting for alan wake all over again.

[[BOYS AT CRYPTIC,HEAR MY PRAYERS,I ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE SO PLEASE DONT MAKE IT A SLOW AND BORING ONE?PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR MAGIC!!!!

[Arsinoe]

Never mind

[stevek765]

Never mind

Klingon Rimmer!!!

[zeena07]

I doubt that. There is WoW already. And I don't see people dropping WoW.
I do, and they're not going in mass droves to newer MMO's neither, they're coming To Guild Wars :eek

[Centurian]

There is more to life than video games and online forums. Push away from your computer in that blacked out room of yours and go outside and get some sunshine and take up other interests while you still can. Life is only for so long and you never know what lays in wait for you tomorrow.

I have full confidence that Cryptic will produce a fine product in due time and it will be released when their engineers feel comfortable with their product overall.

Semper Fi

[zeena07]

There is more to life than video games and online forums. Push away from your computer in that blacked out room of yours and go outside and get some sunshine and take up other interests while you still can. Life is only for so long and you never know what lays in wait for you tomorrow.I aleady did that ;)

I went to the dentist afterwards and I am high as a kite-lol
No more outoodrs for me today I bet-lol

caCan you say *WWOOOOZZZZYYYYY*?

I have full confidence that Cryptic will produce a fine product in due time and it will be released when their engineers feel comfortable with their product overall.

Semper FiWe can only hope :)

[Rillanor]

This was mostly to the OP who is concerned that if Cryptic doensn't "1up the competition", its Star Trek fan base will move on to Star Wars.

I'm not saying that you can't like both, I'm saying that if you're a true fan of Star Trek, then a new Star Wars game isn't going to pull you away from it.

It sounds like this post was mostly from a gamer perspective, in that the OP just wants to play an MMO as soon as one is released, regardless of what it is.

Then I retract my harshness and send big hugs to both of you :D

[KirksOtherSon]

However, if you look at say WAR, at this point in development, they had a defined website that detailed their classes, loads of screenshots, and were firing off rich Monthly Reports.

Again, I like the staff at STO, but when compared to other companies, their PR efforts are below average.

I hear you, but I think it's important to remember two relevant ideas:

1) WAR is a very different beast from what STO intends to be. Basically, WAR (which I played and enjoyed for what it was) is a mass PvP game rounded out with some PvE content. It's essentially a broad game, but a shallow one, in terms of gameplay options.

2) WAR also fell victim to it's own pre-release hype in a big way. I'm too tired today to cite links here, but use your Google-Fu, and you'll find the post-release evidence of what I'm talking about.

It's a conscious choice whether to "promise less, but deliver more" or the other way around. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, Loekii, but I think Cryptic has made the right choice here -- at least this early in the game's release schedule.

Cheers to ya,

KOS

[inXi]

WAR is totally dying because of its solo management and over hyping.

Some people on this website need to go find themselves an indie project and follow it with no info for 5 years then they'll shut up.

Read a book. Play a game. Go on a walk. News will come when Cryptic says so, but that shouldn't be the point of your life.

[eNDIE]

WAR is totally dying because of its solo management and over hyping.

Some people on this website need to go find themselves an indie project and follow it with no info for 5 years then they'll shut up.

Read a book. Play a game. Go on a walk. News will come when Cryptic says so, but that shouldn't be the point of your life.

More like its lack of contents

[inXi]

More like its lack of contentsIn regards to solo management.

[Loekii]

I hear you, but I think it's important to remember two relevant ideas:

1) WAR is a very different beast from what STO intends to be. Basically, WAR (which I played and enjoyed for what it was) is a mass PvP game rounded out with some PvE content. It's essentially a broad game, but a shallow one, in terms of gameplay options.

2) WAR also fell victim to it's own pre-release hype in a big way. I'm too tired today to cite links here, but use your Google-Fu, and you'll find the post-release evidence of what I'm talking about.

It's a conscious choice whether to "promise less, but deliver more" or the other way around. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, Loekii, but I think Cryptic has made the right choice here -- at least this early in the game's release schedule.

Cheers to ya,

KOS

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is an important difference between 'hype' (Paul Barnett jumping around saying how great the game is -- we have seen Craig act like this in some senses), and 'Information'.

Having a website that actually tells you the game, in simple, clear, and organized fashion, is not 'hype' really, but rather something you'd expect to basically be the standard procedure. The lack of information organization is not 'good marketing theory' -- as the information is already out there -- but rather comes off as sloppy, imo.

While SW:TOR may have some more 'hype' to their site (Cinematic, comicbook prequal, etc), they also have organization and presentation. A person that has zero familarity with either game, looks at each website for 15 mins, will have a much better idea what SW:TOR is about than what STO is about. Again, I am not talking about 'new' information, but rather information that is out there already, but just not displayed on the STO website. Two different posters -- not employees -- have taken it upon themselves to organize the information, better than the website does.

[KirksOtherSon]

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is an important difference between 'hype' (Paul Barnett jumping around saying how great the game is -- we have seen Craig act like this in some senses), and 'Information'.

Having a website that actually tells you the game, in simple, clear, and organized fashion, is not 'hype' really, but rather something you'd expect to basically be the standard procedure. The lack of information organization is not 'good marketing theory' -- as the information is already out there -- but rather comes off as sloppy, imo.

While SW:TOR may have some more 'hype' to their site (Cinematic, comicbook prequal, etc), they also have organization and presentation. A person that has zero familarity with either game, looks at each website for 15 mins, will have a much better idea what SW:TOR is about than what STO is about. Again, I am not talking about 'new' information, but rather information that is out there already, but just not displayed on the STO website. Two different posters -- not employees -- have taken it upon themselves to organize the information, better than the website does.


Respectfully, I can only repeat myself. To wit:

It's a conscious choice whether to "promise less, but deliver more" or the other way around. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, Loekii, but I think Cryptic has made the right choice here -- at least this early in the game's release schedule.

I don't think we're going to agree on this one, but that's cool.

Cheers,

KOS

[DanSeale]

The thing is, the STO information is SCATTERED all over the place, while the SW:TOR info is conveniently Organized on their Website.

Also, while I am not following SW:TOR Directly, I think they might have more information about their game, and certainly more media out there than STO (this is excluding the recent Cinematic). From what I recall, I think there were two "In Game" Videos of two classes already, not to mention the "In Game videos" they have on their site.

Comparing the Two Websites, STO seems like it is still in the Concept Phase, and is not due out for another year+.

yeah ... that was kinda what I ment by putting a fresh coat of paint on the web site...

A few updates .. a new look ... you get the idea !

[Loekii]

yeah ... that was kinda what I ment by putting a fresh coat of paint on the web site...

A few updates .. a new look ... you get the idea !

Definitely.

If Cryptic has released the information - be it Interview, Dev Blog, AskCrytpic, etc - then it should be on the Main Website in an easily accessible format. For example, we know:

There's a Federation Faction
There's a Klingon Faction
We will be in 'command' of a ship, and have 'bridge pets
We start off with lower tier ships and progress into higher tier ships
The game is basically divided between Space and Ground


These things should all be listed in Menu Format on the Front page, not scattered about the internet. Heck the FAQ doesn't really even talk about their being a Klingon Faction as well as a Federation faction.

Imo, the front page should provide easy access to information about the game. Someone that is completely un-familar with the game, should be able to 'get up to speed' by simply reading the front page (and by simply, I mean reading a well laid out format, that clearly lists the 'known' information in a logical format).

[vp21ct]

Kindof out of the blue here, but has anyone noticed how this thread has turned into sort of a 'Hall of Fame' gallery for the fourums.

Seriously, I think we're just missing 16 of 69 and we'd be ready for the 'Veterans' party.

[DanSeale]

Definitely.

If Cryptic has released the information - be it Interview, Dev Blog, AskCrytpic, etc - then it should be on the Main Website in an easily accessible format. For example, we know:

There's a Federation Faction
There's a Klingon Faction
We will be in 'command' of a ship, and have 'bridge pets
We start off with lower tier ships and progress into higher tier ships
The game is basically divided between Space and Ground


These things should all be listed in Menu Format on the Front page, not scattered about the internet. Heck the FAQ doesn't really even talk about their being a Klingon Faction as well as a Federation faction.

Imo, the front page should provide easy access to information about the game. Someone that is completely un-familar with the game, should be able to 'get up to speed' by simply reading the front page (and by simply, I mean reading a well laid out format, that clearly lists the 'known' information in a logical format).


I agree ... you can see the sticky of the list of items we know about the game that has been compiled (super job BTW ... ) ... that's the kinda good stuff that needs to be easily found.

And ... yeah .. maybe some "knock your socks off" eye candy on the front page to to with it.

Back to the topic .. I don't think Cryptic needs a fully Hollywood Cinama quality production of a intro just yet.

We can wait a couple more weeks for that !

:D

[Vuk]

Definitely.

If Cryptic has released the information - be it Interview, Dev Blog, AskCrytpic, etc - then it should be on the Main Website in an easily accessible format. For example, we know:

There's a Federation Faction
There's a Klingon Faction
We will be in 'command' of a ship, and have 'bridge pets
We start off with lower tier ships and progress into higher tier ships
The game is basically divided between Space and Ground


These things should all be listed in Menu Format on the Front page, not scattered about the internet. Heck the FAQ doesn't really even talk about their being a Klingon Faction as well as a Federation faction.

Imo, the front page should provide easy access to information about the game. Someone that is completely un-familar with the game, should be able to 'get up to speed' by simply reading the front page (and by simply, I mean reading a well laid out format, that clearly lists the 'known' information in a logical format).

;)I forsee a project in your future ?:p

[Eddie_Carey]

OP I can see exactly what you mean. I did no pay much attention to SW because it has always been secondary to ST, But!

The vid gave me some excitement like, hummmmm will I get to play toons like that and will those ships and craft be in the game. What some excitment for RP.

There does not need to be alot of pointless blah blah about what the OP was stating. He just want to see more content and there is not a need for a budget for a cinematics department.

I have been here before with PE there came a time when some people wanted to see more and I was one that like alot of you that did not see the need with endings of what was shown "Coming in 2008"

2008 came and then it was "Coming Soon" with no forums to ask wtf!

The only ingame trailer was presented in Aug 2008, which was quick for the dev time. I would like to see updated content like the OP. I believe that STO is doing a great job and I would like to see them in action.

He just wants updated content alot of us want the same

[KirksOtherSon]

Here's what I was trying to remember earlier, to offer Loekii, but I couldn't call up the details in my very-weary state:

I think it's also important to remember that Bioware was working on Star Wars The Old Republic (in secret) at the Bioware Austin studio opened for this purpose from March 2006 (LINK (http://www.bioware.com/bioware_info/about/)).

Cryptic Only acquired the license for Star Trek Online sometime after Perpetual surrendered it in January 2008 (LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online)).

While Cryptic has closed the "development gap" between the two games somewhat, given that they already had the game engine built for Champions Online to use, if you've been following the devs on Twitter, you've noticed that Cryptic is still iterating on certain basic gameplay elements for STO.

The fact that SW: TOR is going to be massively voice-acted, as well as story-driven in an unique way (LINK (http://www.massively.com/2009/06/09/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-hundreds-of-voice-actors/)) may slow that game's release, but it seems Bioware already has enough of their basic implementation down to have offered a playable demo of their game at this year's E3 convention (LINK (http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-e3-demo-preview/)).

Cryptic isn't quite there yet, and I think they'd rather get their game more finished and polished before they start dropping serious gameplay details. I feel this is wise.

Anyway, I hope I've explained myself more clearly this time. :D

Cheers,

KOS

[BreachAndClear]

I figure the site should at least have a section describing the two factions. The TOR website has sections dedicated to the Sith Empire and Republic factions, describing who they are and what they are up to in the time frame of the game. I figure this site should at least have a general info section describing the background of the game, and while a lot of it has to be left a mystery for the Path to 2409 to explain, it could at least be explained just what the Federation and Klingon Empires are for people that may stumble upon this game but not be current fans of the of the series and not know what a Klingon is beyond "those guys with the bony foreheads."

I don't think organization is the only issue. The info, as it is released, usually only caters to the understanding of current STO fans. I mean, even when it is mentioned that the game takes place 30 years after Nemesis, non-ST fans are not going to know what Nemesis is, and it is never explained that it was the ST film that occurred last in the ST timeline. For TOR, you usually hear the game listed as taking place 3,600 years before the movies, if they had said 3,600 years before the Battle of Yavin, that's a more obscure reference point that without explanation isn't going to be understood by non-fans (and even by some casual fans, who might not remember the names of every planet and battle). Similarly, saying 30 years after Nemesis warrants some explanation. Even new fans of ST that the new Abrams film draw in are probably not going to know what Nemesis is. They could probably make do with saying 30 years after the films, and it would probably be understood what they mean.

It's always nice that Cryptic caters to the questions and concerns of ST fans, but as The.Grand.Nagus expressed in another thread, I'm hoping that this game expands beyond ST fans and has a larger gaming community at launch. To do that I think organization of new info needs to be made more user friendly to find, and released details need to be made easier to understand for those that may not know a whole lot about the IP.

[Loekii]

<snip>

Cryptic isn't quite there yet, and I think they'd rather get their game more finished and polished before they start dropping serious gameplay details. I feel this is wise.

Anyway, I hope I've explained myself more clearly this time. :D

Cheers,

KOS

The thing is that I am not only talking about 'NEW' material. I am talking about the poor job they are doing with established Information.

There is a lot of information presented by Cryptic, that is tossed all over the place, rather than being organized and professionally presented by Cryptic on their Website.

Two posts by Forum members (not Cryptic Employees), provide MORE and BETTER information than the 'Official' STO Crytpic Website.

The Customers are doing a better job at supplying information than the business --- its like customers walking around a restaurant explaining the menu to other patrons, because the menu is lacking.

[inXi]

I would agree with Loekii. Trailers and such may be expensive, but they could modify the website to better represent STO's current condition.

[moessner]

http://swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

This video means nothing. But who having watched it didn't get excited? How many people that were on the fence before, leaning towards STO, but still open to SWTOR, just felt like leaning the other way? Bioware releases new videos, information, etc. all the time. Cryptic gives us, very few screen shots, little game info, & 1 video of game play that is quite old.

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

I know there are gonna be people that try to tell me that they are telling us and showing us everything they have. You cant honestly believe that. If this is everything they have, then this game in nothing but an idea. (There is no spoon)

The way I feel, is after that video, I will be playing both of these games.

yea but STO will be out well before SWTOR. STO is shooting for Xmas or beging next year. SWtor will be lucky to be out end of next year more like the year affter that.

[Chastian]

It will take some moves to turn the tide. Crypic will do this, this isnt their first rodeo. TOR trailer gave me goosebumps I must say.

[Loekii]

I would agree with Loekii. Trailers and such may be expensive, but they could modify the website to better represent STO's current condition.

Exactly.

As BreachAndClear pointed out, there isn't anything that even explains that there is a Federation and Klingon Faction, among several other aspects of the game which has been discussed in Dev interviews, blogs, etc.

Rather than attracting people or promoting interest, I feel the current layout pushes people away. The main site convey's the message that the game is still in a 'concept' stage, and work has not really even begun, rather than reflecting the current stage of the game --- or even the Jan 09 stage of the game. :(

Trying to site information in posts, is like shuffling through a disorganized stack of various notes scribbled on a bunch of random papers. There is no concise Organization to the published information.

A new visitor should be able to look at the menu, click on say 'GAME -> Factions' and see there are 2 factions, Feds and Klingons, or click on 'GAME -> Crew -> Bridge Pets, to see how crew is handled and be introduced to the notion of 'Bridge Pets'.

It would help people, especially visitors, get a summary of what 'we' already know about the game.

[ethonastareva]

http://swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

This video means nothing. But who having watched it didn't get excited? How many people that were on the fence before, leaning towards STO, but still open to SWTOR, just felt like leaning the other way? Bioware releases new videos, information, etc. all the time. Cryptic gives us, very few screen shots, little game info, & 1 video of game play that is quite old.

Star Wars will be the main competition for STO, & if they want to win this battle they are gonna have to put out something that's gets us more excited then the competition. Its a competitive market, full of starved sci-fi gamers. Videos like this are eye candy, & are meant to attract attention to their game. Most Trek Fans are SW fans as well. Cryptic needs to put out some eye candy of their own.

Why so secretive? just give us more, we have so little. C'mon Cryptic, show all of us waiting for STO, what you should have shown us already. That were all waiting for the superior game.

I know there are gonna be people that try to tell me that they are telling us and showing us everything they have. You cant honestly believe that. If this is everything they have, then this game in nothing but an idea. (There is no spoon)

The way I feel, is after that video, I will be playing both of these games.

i agree with you! i've already express some like minded feelings in another thread as follows:

"i didn't expect them to be at E3 and i wouldn't expect them to show much about the game off this year. i've follow this game since PE were making it and besides what we've seen from them and the little we seem from cryptic we all really don't know much about this game. cryptic has seem to have done everything in their power to tell us nothing!

after all this time all we've seen are a handfull of screenshots, a few starships which besides 2 or 3 have all been FEDs, a old and vague video, a few dev chats, some vague and short interviews, and so far it seems they are skipping out on game conventions.

cryptic, you can't sell what folks don't know about, and folks that are following this game can't or won't hold onto to a game they know very little about. how many folks out there right now which might not be bless with a lot of free time and money are going mad because they honestly don't know which scifi mmo will come out first and which one to play? a lot of these scifi mmos are coming out this fall and around the holidays. where are you cryptic?

oh and cryptic, startrek is a lot more than just feds. really you need to learn this and start showing off some content for the other races."

that was my reply to another thread but yeah that's how i feel about it. like it or not bioware got something going for them that is the size of a rogue wave.

[AtomicNerd]

Champions has some new site separate from their forum. Maybe STO will be getting something like this soon.

http://championsonlinedailynews.com/

[Opulence]

Not going to lie, I saw the TOR cinematic and it made me want to jump into fast-paced lightsaber combat. Will I be giving this game a shot when it's released? You bet. Bioware has yet to let me down so we'll see. However this is thier first MMO. The production and maintenance are quite different between a single-player and a MMO game.

On the other hand... Cryptic has the very first Star Trek MMO. That in itself is a big thing. With that comes a greater risk of dropping the ball. Though they have the advantage of experience with MMOs. (Personal opinion here, but let's hope they've learned from past mistakes...) Either way I'm onboard to try STO as well.

[SirReginaldo]

I would vote to say that both will be successful. In all truth these 2 franchises have been hyped with movie releases, series and games before hand (even though they mostly do not have anything to do with at least the star wars side of the convo). I would like to try both, however, the only problem with the Star Wars game is the fact that I think it would take at least 8 guys with guns to fight and maybe kill a jedi. That would be if they are smart. Seeing as this is a mmo and the bounty hunters are on the Sith side, I am starting to think it is thus needing some balance:D Maybe it is just me;)

I think over all that I have seen most of what star wars has to give and that we will be seeing more interesting works from cryptic with STO:p

[dmckey]

RE: Does Cryptic need to 1up the competition

With Juggernaut titles like SWTOR and Jumpgate Evolution, even Stargate Worlds might be a possibility. I would have to vote yes. I think Cyptic will need to start showing us more of what we can expect from this game.

[Revenaught]

I will be trying both games and the trailer for SWTOR has nothing to do with that decision.
However, in and of itself that trailer was very awesome! If they made a full length movie of the events leading up the the game I would pay good money for it and watch it over and over if it was the same quality.

[KirksOtherSon]

Exactly.

As BreachAndClear pointed out, there isn't anything that even explains that there is a Federation and Klingon Faction, among several other aspects of the game which has been discussed in Dev interviews, blogs, etc.

Rather than attracting people or promoting interest, I feel the current layout pushes people away. The main site convey's the message that the game is still in a 'concept' stage, and work has not really even begun, rather than reflecting the current stage of the game --- or even the Jan 09 stage of the game. :(

Trying to site information in posts, is like shuffling through a disorganized stack of various notes scribbled on a bunch of random papers. There is no concise Organization to the published information.

A new visitor should be able to look at the menu, click on say 'GAME -> Factions' and see there are 2 factions, Feds and Klingons, or click on 'GAME -> Crew -> Bridge Pets, to see how crew is handled and be introduced to the notion of 'Bridge Pets'.

It would help people, especially visitors, get a summary of what 'we' already know about the game.

Okay. I think I understand now, and this, I _can_ agree with ... the website, as it exists, is not very good at providing clear and ready access to the basic concepts of Star Trek Online.

Among my friends, for example, I've become the STO information guy -- I come here, read in-depth, and provide answers to their questions regarding the basic shape of the game. The website, unfortunately, doesn't do that very well at this time.

A wiki-style compendium of all known details on the game would be equally off-putting to newcomers -- but I realize that this is not what you're asking to see, Loekii. Basically, this website needs a "new and improved" basic FAQ section which actually touches on the questions people keep asking about here, over and over and over and over ...

I think we've reached a peaceful mutual understanding here, Loekii. How very Star Trek of us ;)

Cheers,

KOS

[RookActual]

This is where I get annoyed with the MMORPG branding. SW:TOR always was going to appeal to the higher adrenaline player. That trailer means nothing to me as far as developing a reputation for the game, it just means BioWare made a trailer that was probably a better battle scene than anything LucasArts has presented us with. BioWare hasn't made a singleplayer game yet that has done less than absolutely impress me. They haven't made one single MMORPG yet that has...because they haven't made one.

Does this mean they will fail? I hope not, but releasing impressive decorative hype is not going to lure me into playing a game ever again, not even one based on my favorite franchise built by my favorite RPG developer. 75% of the content BioWare is releasing on their website is just that: hype. BioWare has more credibility with me than just about any two other developers combined, but they won't sell me this game on their reputation and some fancy material you'll never even see in the game.

I'm being cautiously optimistic about SW:TOR. It still has the weight of being an MMO upon it's shoulders, a genre that is more likely to break your back than not, and BioWare has a lot of homework to do before it can shoulder that weight.

[vp21ct]

I find myself constantly trying to tell you guys this.

Cryptic is essentially the veteran in the market right now. They are well known for a fantastic job on City of Heroes, and will be getting alot of attention to CO with its rediculously quick release and the first "Completely Customize it Your Way" MMO that wasn't aimed at a fringe demographic. They will have a 2 for 2 in the Super Hero MMO market (admitedly they gave up CoX, but that's forgivable) and Are currently working on possibly THE biggest IP in the western world. (or most of the world, for that matter.)

They have the added publicity of the Movie(s) and I am completely certain that they will capatalize on this. WHEN THEY ARE READY. If you look at the CO webside you will notice that they are posting fairly signifigant Updates almost at a biweekly basis. And CO IS NOT going to be their flagship. STO is. Atari themselves will make a big deal with STO if Cryptic doesn't, but closer to launch, that way the Casual gamer isn't going to be going "Hey, when is this game coming out Already."

[StuM82]

That SW:TOR trailer means nothing really, it's just a "cinematic" trailer as the site itself says. I don't think the game itself will look anything near as high quality as that.

While it's true that both games will appeal to a similar fanbase some people will already have chosen one over the other. I like Star Wars but I've got no intention of playing SW:TOR, it's 100% STO for me.

[Jester20]

The SWTOR Trailer was (IMO) a fantastic thing to watch but you are all right in saying you can not judge the game from this.

But with all the class / planet releases so far it does look to be a game i would love to play. On saying that it does not mean that i want to play STO any less.

i suspect Bioware and Lucas arts have a lot bigger budget than Cryptic and so they are gonna put the bells and knobs on their advertising but that doesnt mean Crytic cant compete.
When it come down to it people want to know about the game they are going to play it just seems at the moment that Bioware are giving more info (and i dont mean the trailer) than cryptic is.

[BreachAndClear]

That SW:TOR trailer means nothing really, it's just a "cinematic" trailer as the site itself says. I don't think the game itself will look anything near as high quality as that.

While it's true that both games will appeal to a similar fanbase some people will already have chosen one over the other. I like Star Wars but I've got no intention of playing SW:TOR, it's 100% STO for me.

Of course it won't look like that, just as the photorealistic cinematics of WoW don't look anything like the exaggerated, fantasy graphics of the game itself. However, the cinematic doesn't have to look like the game to get people's attention and put the game on their radar, it's still publicity, and a very well done cinematic that gets me excited for the game despite the fact that I know the game will have stylized graphics that don't look anything like that that.

Also, it isn't a game being made from some unknown company. Bioware has made a name for themselves with KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect, and received a lot of attention at E3 with TOR and Mass Effect 2. The expectations are high for TOR, and KOTOR showed that Bioware could take that Star Wars IP and make a game that appealed to people that weren't that fond of the IP itself (i.e. they made a good game that could stand on its own merits and whose success wasn't derived solely from it being a SW game).

It's yet to be seen if Cryptic can do that with STO, and it's been pointed out by several members that Cryptic seems to be catering mostly to ST fans, and could be doing more to get publicity that might attract individuals that have no prior experience with the ST IP, or those that aren't even fans of the ST IP.

[wootage]

Why don't you look at the other trailers? They have like 5 interview trailers out, and they have a lot of actual gameplay footage in them.

I do think that both STO and SWTOR will do well, but I think they'll take people away from other games instead of each other. STO will get a lot of mature gamers that want cooperative play, while SWTOR will get the more soloist RPG'ers.

I'll probably play both - STO with a fleet, and SWTOR with a friend or two.

[Loekii]

Why don't you look at the other trailers? They have like 5 interview trailers out, and they have a lot of actual gameplay footage in them.

I do think that both STO and SWTOR will do well, but I think they'll take people away from other games instead of each other. STO will get a lot of mature gamers that want cooperative play, while SWTOR will get the more soloist RPG'ers.

I'll probably play both - STO with a fleet, and SWTOR with a friend or two.

I agree.

Also, I think the game fundamentally are different games.

STO = Starships (like Eve) + Ground Content
SW:TOR = Ground Content Based (WoW/EQ2/etc)


So I can see STO attracting those players that are looking for a 'starship' based game, like Eve, but don't want the complexity of Eve.

I don't see that to be a vast number that will propel STO to beat SW:TOR (SW:TOR will likely be the 2nd highest MMORPG, imo), but that number should help push STO into profitability if Cryptic makes a solid game.

[RookActual]

I don't think ST:O has to beat TOR to be successful. Cryptic was actually successful with CoX for several years, but overshadowed by WoW. I can't help but think TOR will be more popular, possibly, but I'm still weary about BioWare making an MMO and everyone assuming they'll do that well because they stuck to a winning formula in the past. An MMORPG, no matter how you cut it, is not the same thing as a singleplayer RPG.

[Loekii]

I don't think ST:O has to beat TOR to be successful. Cryptic was actually successful with CoX for several years, but overshadowed by WoW. I can't help but think TOR will be more popular, possibly, but I'm still weary about BioWare making an MMO and everyone assuming they'll do that well because they stuck to a winning formula in the past. An MMORPG, no matter how you cut it, is not the same thing as a singleplayer RPG.

The same could be said about a company that had hits with RTS games, and look what Blizzard did. At least Bioware is a few steps ahead of where Blizzard started, in that they have at least made quality RPGs.

However, I completely agree that STO does not need to beat SW:TOR to be successful. They just need to turn a big enough profit to support the game and future development. That could be a few as maintaining 200K re-subscribing customers.

[RookActual]

The same could be said about a company that had hits with RTS games, and look what Blizzard did. At least Bioware is a few steps ahead of where Blizzard started, in that they have at least made quality RPGs.

However, I completely agree that STO does not need to beat SW:TOR to be successful. They just need to turn a big enough profit to support the game and future development. That could be a few as maintaining 200K re-subscribing customers.

Yes, but many more have failed than suceeded. I do indeed have confidence BioWare will succeed, I even believe TOR may be the first real competitor WoW has had. I am of the opinion that an MMORPG and a single-player RPG are two wholly different monsters to tackle, and are hardly two sides of the same coin.

I, do, however believe we may finally be entering the golden age of MMORPGs. Where more of them succeed than fail, and there will be more variety than just the Tolkien Pattern Fantasy MMO. ST:O and SW:TOR may be both effectively Sci-Fi, but the two games are destined to be absolutely different. I am sure both cases will be on my shelf before it's said and done.

[Vorador]

Seriously, take a look at the SW:TOR site. They have development videos giving glimpses of gameplay, and the game is over a year and a half away.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we have 1 trailer, a bunch of screenshots which are a couple months old, dev team interviews which really don't give much in game information, and every now and then we have dev chats which yields small amounts of information.

Bottom line is if you want STO to succeed, you need to build a community. The couple thousand people that are actively watching the game now will not be enough to recover more than 5% of the development costs, let alone the massive server costs.

[JPJappic]

Seriously, take a look at the SW:TOR site. They have development videos giving glimpses of gameplay, and the game is over a year and a half away.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we have 1 trailer, a bunch of screenshots which are a couple months old, dev team interviews which really don't give much in game information, and every now and then we have dev chats which yields small amounts of information.

Bottom line is if you want STO to succeed, you need to build a community. The couple thousand people that are actively watching the game now will not be enough to recover more than 5% of the development costs, let alone the massive server costs.

No. Let them work on the game please. Their time is more valuable doing that.

[jakeguy99]

Fail. I think they are doing a good job. they have been keeping the community for the most part involved with trivia stories and what not. Yes it would be nice to see more of the game, but they will post them when they feel the screenshots/videos are ready to be viewed by the public. Who knows maybe they are making some drastic changes to the game and videos would be inaccurate.

[Loekii]

There is a topic sort already about this:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=21117&highlight=competition

[Cassidan]

I have to agree with the OP. While SW:TOR is really showcasing it's different aspects and putting out amazing trailers like that of Sith vs. Jedi that recently came out at E3 it does seem like STO is falling behind in the PR department. Many of the negative posts that pop up here and there on the forums is mostly due to lack of knowledge which could be alleviated with some more screenshots or trailers or....something. Though the Dev Chats do help, actually seeing things is nice too.

[Jack596]

SWTOR =/= STO

Star Wars fans are easily amused with major changes in the storyline. You don't wanna try that with Star Trek unless you are prepared for a million questions.

[Loekii]

Fail. I think they are doing a good job. they have been keeping the community for the most part involved with trivia stories and what not. Yes it would be nice to see more of the game, but they will post them when they feel the screenshots/videos are ready to be viewed by the public. Who knows maybe they are making some drastic changes to the game and videos would be inaccurate.

I think looking at the First Page of this site shows they are not doing a good job.

First time visitors to the site:

Are not Told there are Two Sides in the game.
The game is divided up into space and Ground
There are 3 captain Professions: Tactical, Engineering, Science
Your Crew are Bridge Pets and how they work
What race you can be


They must 'dig' through a bunch of DIFFERENT sources to get that BASIC information.

A Thread, made not by Cryptic PR, but by a forum Post provides MORE and BETTER ORGANIZED information that can be found even by looking at Crytpics Front Page for 15 mins. --- Thanks HyorD!

Basically the Store is in complete disarray, with papers and notes scattered all over the place, rather than having things diplayed properly and in a user friendly fashion.

In terms of Noob/User Friendliness, the Front Page gets a 3 out of 10, imo.

I think Wow has a very simple and user friendly layout on their MENU Bar at their mainsite. Crytpic should basically emulate that layout:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml

[dieuwe10]

Star Trek has it's own community. Once the game comes out, that community will enter the game. Or so Cryptic hopes...

[PicardoManeuver]

Star Trek has it's own community. Once the game comes out, that community will enter the game. Or so Cryptic hopes...

That's like saying a kid applying for a summer job starting in the middle of summer. Oh, all these other kids are applying for the job he wants. But he'll apply once summer is in mid-swing.

[Vorador]

I think looking at the First Page of this site shows they are not doing a good job.

First time visitors to the site:

Are not Told there are Two Sides in the game.
The game is divided up into space and Ground
There are 3 captain Professions: Tactical, Engineering, Science
Your Crew are Bridge Pets and how they work
What race you can be


They must 'dig' through a bunch of DIFFERENT sources to get that BASIC information.

A Thread, made not by Cryptic PR, but by a forum Post provides MORE and BETTER ORGANIZED information that can be found even by looking at Crytpics Front Page for 15 mins. --- Thanks HyorD!

Basically the Store is in complete disarray, with papers and notes scattered all over the place, rather than having things diplayed properly and in a user friendly fashion.

In terms of Noob/User Friendliness, the Front Page gets a 3 out of 10, imo.

I think Wow has a very simple and user friendly layout on their MENU Bar at their mainsite. Crytpic should basically emulate that layout:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml



Pretty much sums up the major problems.

[Vorador]

Star Trek has it's own community. Once the game comes out, that community will enter the game. Or so Cryptic hopes...

If that is Cryptic's hope, then STO is going to crash and burn worse than Age of Conan.

[dyvimtorm]

I think looking at the First Page of this site shows they are not doing a good job.

First time visitors to the site:

Are not Told there are Two Sides in the game.
The game is divided up into space and Ground
There are 3 captain Professions: Tactical, Engineering, Science
Your Crew are Bridge Pets and how they work
What race you can be


They must 'dig' through a bunch of DIFFERENT sources to get that BASIC information.

A Thread, made not by Cryptic PR, but by a forum Post provides MORE and BETTER ORGANIZED information that can be found even by looking at Crytpics Front Page for 15 mins. --- Thanks HyorD!

Basically the Store is in complete disarray, with papers and notes scattered all over the place, rather than having things diplayed properly and in a user friendly fashion.

In terms of Noob/User Friendliness, the Front Page gets a 3 out of 10, imo.

I think Wow has a very simple and user friendly layout on their MENU Bar at their mainsite. Crytpic should basically emulate that layout:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml



I agree, whole site needs major revamping, but I'm presuming (hoping) that the current state persistence more reflects they haven't entered a major coordinated PR phase with the game yet, not that they are heading for epic fail.

I would like to see that darn left upper side of screen background graphic with the stars showing through a planet corrected, though :p

[thefrayl]

There is a topic sort already about this:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=21117&highlight=competition


I don't mean to nitpick, but you do realize that you posted a link to this very thread, right? lol

:D

[Cassidan]

I don't mean to nitpick, but you do realize that you posted a link to this very thread, right? lol

:D

That was originally posted in a separate thread that was created. That thread has since been folded into this post since it was about the same thing.

[Kinjiru]

.

I think Wow has a very simple and user friendly layout on their MENU Bar at their mainsite. Crytpic should basically emulate that layout:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml



Oh fine, now we WANT Cryptic to copy WoW??

lol, j/k Loekii, was just too funny to pass up. :D

[Loekii]

Oh fine, now we WANT Cryptic to copy WoW??

lol, j/k Loekii, was just too funny to pass up. :D

:::: SAP! :::
::::BACKSTAB!:::
::::VANISH::::

:D