What Cryptic needs to do with STO's story

[STO]

Greetings,

It has come to attention that Cryptic plans to incorporate a strong story in STO. You can check out more information about that in the thread http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535 . What I want to convey is that a strong story has to be felt and understood by the players.

From the FAQ-
Q: Do I need to be well-versed in Star Trek lore in order to play Star Trek Online?
A: No, even the most casual Star Trek fan will enjoy and appreciate the world. For those not familiar with the Star Trek universe, Star Trek Online will be a new experience with as much depth as each individual is comfortable with exploring. However, the world will be rich with lore from every series and movie that will satisfy even the most devout Trek fan.

Even beyond lore itself, (more than just locations and familiar names) the game needs a strong story for the players to connect to.

I am a little surprised that Cryptic is using The Path stories to get the fans caught up on what is happening in the Star Trek time line. It seems there is a missed opportunity for Cryptic to put what they have designed ingame to use. By showcasing their models for character creation and wonderful ship designs in cinematic type short stories with narration.

Not to compare apples with oranges. However a simmilar genre mmo is going with cinematics to explain it's background and story. Here is the example:

http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer?page=17

Do I think STO will only be successful with this kind of direction? No, I think it can be successful without cinematic pre-story content. However I do think that if Cryptic embraces this to some degree it could help stir up additional early support, something that all designers would call necessary.

my 2 cents

[Marytha]

Just out of curiosity, how much does a cinematic cost to make? Were you suggesting that they have one for each Path story?

Marytha

P.S. Yes I would so love to watch that as a movie. :)

[No1UKnow]

It would be cool to get The Path in cinematics but the argument you are going to most likely hear is that "we" want Cryptic to put all of their resources into making a great game, not cinematics.

[Kinjiru]

I'd much rather that they work on actually making the game, instead of making trailers. A gameplay vid every once in a while is cool, but why spend the time it would take to make "official" looking story-trailers?

They aren't just thrown together. Producing one, even if using ingame footage, is a pretty labor intensive job. I'm completely happy with reading the stories.

Edit: No1 beat me to it, heh.

[No1UKnow]

I'd much rather that they work on actually making the game, instead of making trailers. A gameplay vid every once in a while is cool, but why spend the time it would take to make "official" looking story-trailers?

They aren't just thrown together. Producing one, even if using ingame footage, is a pretty labor intensive job. I'm completely happy with reading the stories.

Edit: No1 beat me to it, heh.

case closed

[Laphtiya]

The problem I've found with MMOs with a story is that they end, then you are just dumped to do whatever you want. With stories you get used to being told what to do and following a path then when it comes to doing your own thing you dunno what to do, you get bored then you log off and leave the game after you decide its not worth paying £8 for something you go on every now and then. Also like AoC you get told that you are the "chosen one" and you get players going around with a God complex. I mean it might be nice to see a plot line or mini adventures or "Orders from Starfleet". Because like SWG that didn't have a story driven plot, it got boring really quick if you couldn't find any quests to complete.

So to sum up, yes I'd like to see some form of plot and storyline and interaction from the admins to keep things fresh and new. But I don't want it to be the only focus of the game, I dont want to be pulled from one sector of space and have to travel to the other side of the galaxy just to progress and keep up with everyone else.

[ramjam380]

I was about to go start a thread on basically the same subject, but more on the question of whether Cryptic is going about promoting the game the right way. SWTOR is going more the way of Warhammer by putting up lots of videos and media and backstory to get attention for the game. STO is focusing on interviews, releasing features rather than media, and building a strong community. There are benefits to both methods.

I think Cryptic is doing fine so far in promoting STO--the movie is a huge help in generating interest in the franchise, and that is obviously spilling over into increased interest in the game. Trek fans tend to run a little older than Star Wars fans, are eager to read five paragraphs about the year 2389, and are (I find) more interested in how the game will work than which of the ships will be there and how they will look. The SWTOR website, perhaps because the game is earlier in development, is a lot of art and video and glitter, but rather short on game features and mechanics.

That said, as release nears, the STO team would benefit by taking some time to seriously beef up the media side of the website and to make everything a bit more comprehensible and exciting for non-fans. To make the game the success it needs to be, it needs to get yours and my lifetime subscription and at the same time be on little Joey Gamer's Christmas list.

Awen tweeted about a community extravaganza this summer, which I'm excited about, but I hope that there's a serious effort to reach outside of the community to potential customers that don't have the depth of experience with Trek or the patience to be full community participants.

[Condemnation]

That's where pvp should come in if they do it right. The storyline should end up in a conflict rather than a resolution. That way you have a reason to fight rather than just being shoved into a few mini battlegrounds and told to have some fun while your waiting for the next installment to the story.

Make pvp matter to the story.

[STO]

Let me preface this follow up post with saying, If I was not clear in my first post; I do not think that cinematics to tell a story will be the only way STO is successful. What I am interested in, is knowing if perhaps cinematics are more successful at conveying a story and bringing interest into the game. I remember some of my strongest and weakest gameplay moments have been with cinematics. Let me share an example:

GOOD MOMENT: In the original KOTOR (which was not an MMO) there were many cut-scenes that set the stage for epic fights. I felt focused and drawn into each of these fights through these mini-stories that left me playing the role of a character, not just trying to advance to the next area.

BAD MOMENT: In SWG I remember one scene which you could not turn off, it was after a load scene, a flyby of a mining station that took about 10 secs. The problem was that EVERY TIME you visited that planet, you were forced to watch that scene. Above all that, it added nothing to the storyline and just simply was thrown in there to "showoff' the design of the mining station... something that could be achieved by placing it in a quest at some point where you would only be subjected to it once.

So I guess what I am getting at is that there are many ways that visual media could be used in-game to promote the story. Both good ways and bad ways. I do not want it in the game just to BE there like that one cut scene in SWG, nor do I expect to have them for every quest. Perhaps there is a balance in there somewhere that will allow an enhanced experience for all of us.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a cinematic cost to make? Were you suggesting that they have one for each Path story?

Well... cost is relative. In actuality, quality cut-scenes / cinematics can be achieved with no additional cost to production. Additional costs come in the form of time that is necessary to make them. A skilled animator could use ingame models and locations to create interesting cinematics that require only animation of existing models. Basically there are two options, high quality/ textured cinematics or lower quality animations of existing content. Fortunately for game design companies, they are right full of skilled modelers and animators.

It would be cool to get The Path in cinematics but the argument you are going to most likely hear is that "we" want Cryptic to put all of their resources into making a great game, not cinematics.

This is true if you look at the two as separate entities. If you view cinematics as a small portion of gameplay, then it would make it a worthy investment. Can you imagine getting some quests in the form of stories instead of mundane dialogue from NPC's? Things of that nature could be very rewarding to the player.

They aren't just thrown together. Producing one, even if using ingame footage, is a pretty labor intensive job. I'm completely happy with reading the stories.

Anything you do in game design is labor intensive. Even writing the stories takes time. It is not a matter of what takes time or how much time, but what is important to the players and gameplay. Part of that experience is the storyline.[/QUOTE]

So to sum up, yes I'd like to see some form of plot and storyline and interaction from the admins to keep things fresh and new. But I don't want it to be the only focus of the game, I dont want to be pulled from one sector of space and have to travel to the other side of the galaxy just to progress and keep up with everyone else.

You are correct a balance is needed.

That said, as release nears, the STO team would benefit by taking some time to seriously beef up the media side of the website and to make everything a bit more comprehensible and exciting for non-fans. To make the game the success it needs to be, it needs to get yours and my lifetime subscription and at the same time be on little Joey Gamer's Christmas list.

I think that some well designed cinematics could help establish emotional connection to the story far more than the current Path stories.

That's where pvp should come in if they do it right. The storyline should end up in a conflict rather than a resolution. That way you have a reason to fight rather than just being shoved into a few mini battlegrounds and told to have some fun while your waiting for the next installment to the story.

Make pvp matter to the story.

What better to achieve this then by offering cinematics which showcase both factions in conflict; thus allowing the viewers to make attachments to each side.

[Gideon]

I liked the SWTOR cinematic but I'd be more excited if I could see actual gameplay footage. The danger in having a video like that is when the actual gameplay is shown and bounty hunters can't fly around like the one in the video or jedi/sith can't flip/jump/fight like that ... well I wonder how many threads they'll have on their forums complaining about that?

I'm happy with what STO is doing at the moment. I'm enjoying the path updates and the video we have seen so far is from the game itself.

[STO]

I liked the SWTOR cinematic but I'd be more excited if I could see actual gameplay footage. The danger in having a video like that is when the actual gameplay is shown and bounty hunters can't fly around like the one in the video or jedi/sith can't flip/jump/fight like that ... well I wonder how many threads they'll have on their forums complaining about that?

I'm happy with what STO is doing at the moment. I'm enjoying the path updates and the video we have seen so far is from the game itself.

Your missing the point of the thread. It's not about getting cinematics in to showcase game content, but rather to advance storyline. To get the players involved and interested in the story. The video cryptic released so far tells us nothing about the story. The video for TOR that I included as reference may not show game content, but it strongly talks about the story.

[thefrayl]

I think they are already getting us involved with the story more than sufficiently via the path to 2409.

While TOR's pre-rendered cinematic was impressive, did it really shine a spotlight on the in-game story? Not at all. It's Star Wars... ofcourse it's going to be the Sith vs. the Jedi. What else would it be? All it did was ooh and ahh us with the impressive CG.

[Gideon]

Your missing the point of the thread. It's not about getting cinematics in to showcase game content, but rather to advance storyline. To get the players involved and interested in the story. The video cryptic released so far tells us nothing about the story. The video for TOR that I included as reference may not show game content, but it strongly talks about the story.

That's fine but what storyline did it advance? The sith are fighting the jedi? Other than the narrative about deception and the planet falling to the sith there was nothing but the fight. Again I liked the video but the online comic they have on the SWTOR site does more to "advance" the story than the video does (the same thing the Path does here).

[Tamgros]

I'd much rather that they work on actually making the game, instead of making trailers. A gameplay vid every once in a while is cool, but why spend the time it would take to make "official" looking story-trailers?

They aren't just thrown together. Producing one, even if using ingame footage, is a pretty labor intensive job. I'm completely happy with reading the stories.

Edit: No1 beat me to it, heh.

Your missing the point of the thread. It's not about getting cinematics in to showcase game content, but rather to advance storyline. To get the players involved and interested in the story. The video cryptic released so far tells us nothing about the story. The video for TOR that I included as reference may not show game content, but it strongly talks about the story.

I think the main point is that it's just not worth it to me. I agree with Kinjiru (cool name by the way). I want gameplay, not storylike fluff. There is real storyline stuff that we can get by playing the experiencing the game. That I will enjoy (hopefully). A 4 minute vid just isn't worth it IMO.

and IMHO Gamplay >> story. Get that done first ;)

[Highcommander]

I think they are already getting us involved with the story more than sufficiently via the path to 2409. While TOR's pre-rendered cinematic was impressive, did it really shine a spotlight on the in-game story? Not at all. It's Star Wars... ofcourse it's going to be the Sith vs. the Jedi. What else would it be? All it did was ooh and ahh us with the impressive CG.
That's fine but what storyline did it advance? The sith are fighting the jedi? Other than the narrative about deception and the planet falling to the sith there was nothing but the fight. Again I liked the video but the online comic they have on the SWTOR site does more to "advance" the story than the video does (the same thing the Path does here).

I disagree. The cinematic set the stage for the game. It showed the main "villain" in the game, it showed how he destroyed a major Republic gathering and offered a foreshadowing of what was to be expected from the Sith in the game. By destroying Coruscant, the Rebel leaders and the Jedi there to protect them, as a potential player of the game you can invest emotionality in the game and choose a side to support. This is the single event that changed the Old Republic from the power of the Jedi to the power of the Sith.

Seeing Lord Angral (the leading Sith) so easily taking out the Republic’s capital planet establishes the story for all who watch it. It is one thing to read about it, another to SEE it happen. To say that such a cinematic doesn't shed light on the story is crazy. Are we say that Klingon vs. Federation is all we need to know about the STO story? Of course not, we need and want the details shown to us. Just reading about them cannot do it justice.

I think the main point is that it's just not worth it to me. I agree with Kinjiru (cool name by the way). I want gameplay, not storylike fluff. There is real storyline stuff that we can get by playing the experiencing the game. That I will enjoy (hopefully). A 4 minute vid just isn't worth it IMO.

and IMHO Gamplay >> story. Get that done first ;)

This is not true. Gameplay cannot be better than story. Nor can the story cause gameplay to be ignored. It is necessary for both to work together to make the game enjoyable. We know Cryptic has been hard at work designing the structures and content of the game. We know they have been hard at work with the story too. I think cinematic renderings of the story will be great addition to the game.

[KashikoiBaka]

I vote Cryptic ignores us and goes on building the game that they want to make. Most of them are fans of Star Trek as well so they already think of these things. These people know what they are doing.

[Tamgros]

This is not true. Gameplay cannot be better than story. Nor can the story cause gameplay to be ignored. It is necessary for both to work together to make the game enjoyable. We know Cryptic has been hard at work designing the structures and content of the game. We know they have been hard at work with the story too. I think cinematic renderings of the story will be great addition to the game.

This may be true for you, but not for me and many other people. I have played many games that I have no idea what the back story was, but the game was awesome!

There is much more to a game than story. Heck, some games have absolutely no story. In order to be a game there must be gameplay, but there is no need of story. Therefore it is not necessary as you state.

That being said, I totally respect your desire for story. :)

[Gideon]

This may be true for you, but not for me and many other people. I have played many games that I have no idea what the back story was, but the game was awesome!

There is much more to a game than story. Heck, some games have absolutely no story. In order to be a game there must be gameplay, but there is no need of story. Therefore it is not necessary as you state.

That being said, I totally respect your desire for story. :)

Exactly.

SWG had a great story. It took place between A New Hope and Empire but the gameplay was so-so and well...you see what happened to it. SWG should have been what WoW is, a monster MMO. They had a whole universe and an awesome story to draw from and still botched it. And before someone says it was fine before they changed it with the NGE, it wasn't. If it was and they weren't losing players there would have been no need to change it.

Anyway, my point here is that for a game to be successful a strong compelling story doesn't matter. Alot of gamers won't even read the quest text, they'll use spoiler sites etc... So if the game is dull or broken it will tank.

[Reinkaos]

That was a brilliant trailer.. for an action movie :D

[Highcommander]

This may be true for you, but not for me and many other people. I have played many games that I have no idea what the back story was, but the game was awesome! There is much more to a game than story. Heck, some games have absolutely no story. In order to be a game there must be gameplay, but there is no need of story. Therefore it is not necessary as you state. That being said, I totally respect your desire for story. :)

Desire is irrelevant. For a game to be successful it NEEDS a solid story. I challenge you to name one MMO without a story that is considered successful. By the reverse of that I will name some that have amazing stories and are secussful: WOW, SWG, EVE, Dofus, Silkroad, LOTRO

Exactly. SWG had a great story. It took place between A New Hope and Empire but the gameplay was so-so and well...you see what happened to it. SWG should have been what WoW is, a monster MMO. They had a whole universe and an awesome story to draw from and still botched it. And before someone says it was fine before they changed it with the NGE, it wasn't. If it was and they weren't losing players there would have been no need to change it. Anyway, my point here is that for a game to be successful a strong compelling story doesn't matter. Alot of gamers won't even read the quest text, they'll use spoiler sites etc... So if the game is dull or broken it will tank.

SWG still has many subscribers despite the people who don't play it and complain about it. I happen to play SWG actively on a few servers and I will tell you the gameplay is amazingly fun and one of the strongest points of the game. I would even rate the gameplay as superior to the story/plot elements of SWG. Although both are adequate.

It seems to me that again, the point is being missed here. It is necessary to have Either OR. You can have both an amazing story and great gameplay. What I propose is that cinematics are able increase the effect of the plot and story elements.

[STO]

Exactly. SWG had a great story. It took place between A New Hope and Empire but the gameplay was so-so and well...you see what happened to it. SWG should have been what WoW is, a monster MMO. They had a whole universe and an awesome story to draw from and still botched it. And before someone says it was fine before they changed it with the NGE, it wasn't. If it was and they weren't losing players there would have been no need to change it.

Anyway, my point here is that for a game to be successful a strong compelling story doesn't matter. Alot of gamers won't even read the quest text, they'll use spoiler sites etc... So if the game is dull or broken it will tank.

Just to add to what Highcommaner said... I wanted to point out the fact that just because a game has a pre-established IP does not mean that it has a "story." The game itself could be very weak in plot points and thus fail at delivering a Story. Also that brings up another point. You can have a story and be unable to deliver the details of the story to the player in a way that is enjoyable. Elements of cinematics enable a story to be delivered in a way that is both enjoyable and understandable.

I don't think they have to go crazy and make a feature-length movie to supplement plot development, however some nice voice-overs would be wonderful additions to the game. Like, if NPC's actually SPOKE quests to you rather than the boring dull text dialogue that so few actually read until they get stuck on the quest.

[JacobFlowers]

Just out of curiosity, how much does a cinematic cost to make? Were you suggesting that they have one for each Path story?

Marytha

P.S. Yes I would so love to watch that as a movie. :)

It would be a great boon for CBS to contribute to the success of this game by providing support or their own resources to work in conjunction for supplying "Path to 2409" cinematics. That would be a HUGE thrust for us.

[Kazzy]

I think that Cryptic couldn't possibly do a cinematic even if they wanted to, as the amount of information and exposition in each of these paths to 2409 would make it nearly impossible to give the information in any other way apart from how they are doing it at the moment

[Arcticfrost]

So you’re the guy that got the STO screen name…

[dieuwe10]

I think they can make a really cool story with it, I think that The Path is just something to get us into the story, once it stops it is up to us to continue it.

[dyvimtorm]

Actually, once the game is released,I suspect there will be extensive fan made machinma, and one great storyline would be to play out the Path. With the level of customization we seem to see, this game has a huge potential for this, and many other things. I'm curious to see how the CO machinima community develops. I also think the devs might consider giving machinima fans some sort of exposure (maybe a section in the forums after launch where they can post youtube links?) of course, this all comes back to the question of how Cryptic Legal is going to handle machinima clips from their game.

Gosh, think I used that word enough times?

[Tribbler]

Well we know from Jack that an "Ancient Enemy" will return in the new MMO, but everyone is hush hush about who they are referring to.

It could be the Borg from the trailers, all the way to the Andromedans.

But outside of Factional Fighting, you can bet that this will be the prime storyline of the game after 2409.