Switching Sides

[Laphtiya]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, not seen it while looking through the forums. But could you in effect switch sides? For example, you are a Klingon in the Federation and you decide that you want to go back to your roots and joing the Empire. Could you do this? Or is it a case of once you've chosen your faction you are stuck with it?

[Tamgros]

I can say with almost no doubt, no. The devs have said things like "at launch you are either Klingon or Federation". There are definitely shades of grey, but there won't be any neutral faction or defecting as far as I can tell.

At least not at launch anyway ;)

[Laphtiya]

I can say with almost no doubt, no. The devs have said things like "at launch you are either Klingon or Federation". There are definitely shades of grey, but there won't be any neutral faction or defecting as far as I can tell.

At least not at launch anyway ;)


Oh yeah not at launch of course, I mean when SWG was launched you couldn't switch sides at first but it was something they built in later in the game. Not saying I would switch it would just be nice to know you had that freedom if you got tired playing for say the Federation/Klingons and fancied a change without starting all over agian.

[Phunix]

Would you prefer some mission that would give you the choice of defecting? This way the system would control over to whom, when and where it gives the mission option. (as to not have people constantly switch sides)
Or would you rather have a reputation system where you have to build up sufficient rep with whom you're going to?
Or a combination or something else?

I prefer a reputation system that takes into account mission and general gameplay behaviour.
If you like to kill off Klingons, don't expect to defect to them soon f.e..
Also once you defected your reputation with your former faction should plummet to near rock bottom.
Not sure what kind of a rep system is planned for STO...

[TruthSeer]

I don't really think switching sides fits in the game, especially given the faction. If you were to switch to the Federation side (and survive your crew's mutiny) they'd debrief you of everything you know but then never let you near another starship, you've already shown yourself as not trust worthy. If you switched to the Klingon side they torture you for everything you know and then execute you for cowardice.

[No1UKnow]

Would you prefer some mission that would give you the choice of defecting? This way the system would control over to whom, when and where it gives the mission option. (as to not have people constantly switch sides)
Or would you rather have a reputation system where you have to build up sufficient rep with whom you're going to?
Or a combination or something else?

I prefer a reputation system that takes into account mission and general gameplay behaviour.
If you like to kill off Klingons, don't expect to defect to them soon f.e..
Also once you defected your reputation with your former faction should plummet to near rock bottom.
Not sure what kind of a rep system is planned for STO...

I like the idea of a reputation system. I believe that if faction hopping is allowed, there should be a penalty for it. Ultimately, I hope faction hopping isn't allowed at all, but that seems unlikely.l

[Laphtiya]

I don't really think switching sides fits in the game, especially given the faction. If you were to switch to the Federation side (and survive your crew's mutiny) they'd debrief you of everything you know but then never let you near another starship, you've already shown yourself as not trust worthy. If you switched to the Klingon side they torture you for everything you know and then execute you for cowardice.

Why wouldn't it work? You could use that same argument for SWG but it worked in that. Imperial players were joining the Rebels all the time after they got bored of being the bad guy. I don't see how it could be a problem, it worked in Voyager didn't it? And this is a time of war and in REAL wars people switched sides all the time. If it can happen in real life why should it not work in a game?

@Phunix

I think a rep system would work as well. It would also help build on the diversity of the universe, for instance if you are well known by other races to be a shoot first ask questions later kind of captain then you'll get a reputation and this would effect how people recieve you. It would also help with say spies and covert missions.

---

All I am saying is give people the choice to change as the game develops. I am not the kind of person who demands everything on release date, I know this cannot happen with MMORPGs. It would never see the light of day if they tried to add everything that everyone wanted for day 1 of launch. But say I wanted to defect to the Gorn Empire or the Romulan Star Empire. I think it should be possible after all history has taught us that people defect to the winning side in a war.

[SovWell]

Once youve had Klingon, you wont go back :)

[Beaver8]

I don't really think switching sides fits in the game, especially given the faction. If you were to switch to the Federation side (and survive your crew's mutiny) they'd debrief you of everything you know but then never let you near another starship, you've already shown yourself as not trust worthy. If you switched to the Klingon side they torture you for everything you know and then execute you for cowardice.
I agree.

Just my belief but I don't think it should be allowed. It seems like it would be the developers tactic to jumpstart a dying game rather than allowing it for the heck of it. I believe you should stick with your choice and make another character if necessary. Plus what would happen to the current ship you were in command of. The ships in your stable. The wealth/prestige/reputation you had in your faction. So many things would have to go back to zero that you would probably be better off making a new character rather than losing all those things you had accumulated.

[Harmony-Jade]

I have advocated for defection in several posts. My personal reason is that I want to play for a Romulan faction.

I think it would be harsh to play a character for months/years until the Romulan expansion comes out, then have to abandon it and start from scratch. By allowing defection, it would allow those of us who wanted Romulans from the begining to play as them without loosing a hard worked character.

This would bring with it plus and minus points. Defection of high level characters would mean a third faction (please be Romulan :D) would be more quickly balanced against the Klingons and Federation. Meaning things like high level PvP between the new faction (Romulans) and the old two, would be possible in quick time rather then have to wait weeks/months until all the new characters had been rolled and levelled, allowing things like D'deridex Warbirds to face off against Galaxy class ships. It would also help to avoid a mad rush into the Romulan starting area, if thousands of people have to roll a new character to play as the Romulans.

Obviously, the defector must face penalties, such as having to trade that nice big shiny tier 5 ship, for a mush smaller tier 3 ship until they get their reputation up to a point where they can start using the high tier ships.

[TruthSeer]

Why wouldn't it work? You could use that same argument for SWG but it worked in that. Imperial players were joining the Rebels all the time after they got bored of being the bad guy. I don't see how it could be a problem, it worked in Voyager didn't it? And this is a time of war and in REAL wars people switched sides all the time. If it can happen in real life why should it not work in a game?


I think defecting to the Klingon Empire and defecting to the Rebel Alliance is slightly different. The Rebel Alliance pretty much relied on recruits and defectors, the Klingons are a people who value honor and would kill any of their own at the mention of treason.

And while yes it was in SWG, switching back and forth wouldn't work in the Star Wars Universe, how long before either side says forget it and just executes you?

[Laphtiya]

There should be serious downsides to turning on your faction. One of them being you cannot disable pvp against that faction, the other you can never again join them and you lose rep with all other factions making it a one way trip. What happens to your ship? Well if your crew don't want to join you then you just say you ran off is a shuttle. Or beamed up by your new allies from a world you had them meet you at. Its not part of a dying mmo its part of life, people always want to be on the winning side. Look at the Ferengi and the Cardasians who defected from the founders to aid the federation in taking back DS9. Star Trek is full of defections. Star Trek 5, Sybok turns at the end to aid Kirk, 7 of 9 turns to join Voyager not to mention half of the Voyager crew compliment. Its part of Star Trek, the fact that people change isn't that what the Federation is built on ;) look at the alliance between the Klingons and Federation who were enemies for so long joined together. And now it seems they are at war again? It would make sense for players to be able to do this as well.

[Laphtiya]

I think defecting to the Klingon Empire and defecting to the Rebel Alliance is slightly different. The Rebel Alliance pretty much relied on recruits and defectors, the Klingons are a people who value honor and would kill any of their own at the mention of treason.

And while yes it was in SWG, switching back and forth wouldn't work in the Star Wars Universe, how long before either side says forget it and just executes you?

Sorry I made my reply before you posted. I agree its totally different in that case, but to answer your question. In that day and age of technology and records they should never forget. You should never be able to rejoin a faction you've left. And your reputation with other empires drops seeing as you will be branded a trator.

[Beaver8]

It seems like some people arent understanding what you will lose if you were able to switch factions. You might be this highly decorated starfleet admiral with more medals than Master cheif in the federation but it wouldn't mean squat in another faction. Would you expect to just switch sides with all the perks and luxury you had with your pervious faction?

You would have to go through the new factions training and work your way up from the beginning. They wouldn't just say "Oh wow you are captain picard....well here take our flagship and all our secrets" It is likely that anything you had wouldn't transfer over except possibly some standard money. It is likely that you would be best off keeping your awesome character and making a new character.

[TruthSeer]

It seems like some people arent understanding what you will lose if you were able to switch factions. You might be this highly decorated starfleet admiral with more medals than Master cheif in the federation but it wouldn't mean squat in another faction. Would you expect to just switch sides with all the perks and luxury you had with your pervious faction?

You would have to go through the new factions training and work your way up from the beginning. They wouldn't just say "Oh wow you are captain picard....well here take our flagship and all our secrets" It is likely that anything you had wouldn't transfer over except possibly some standard money. It is likely that you would be best off keeping your awesome character and making a new character.

That and at least 99% of your crew would mutiny when they find out you plan to defect.

[Jag-Fell]

You should be allowed 1 time to defect. After that you are locked in to your new faction.

[TruthSeer]

Personally I think you should just make an alt if you want to try out the other faction(s).

[Laphtiya]

I get what your saying, why would anyone want to switch and why would the other faction accept them. Which is why I started this topic to find out what you guys thought. I know some people here seem to have the idea that it shouldn't be in because they wouldn't want to switch or because of everything they'd lose. And that you would have to start all over anyway so why even bother.

But it boils down to if your character has skills and abilities that effect the ships performance. If your character is very charismatic and has really high technical skills but you've decided you're sick of the federation and want to switch sides why should you lose your characters abilities? Some people don't like making multiple characters. But I agree that you should at least try out every faction before going and developing one above others. But you might find later down the line that you're not enjoying your faction and you really dont want to start over again so why not allow a switch?

[wrussandrews]

I doubt this will happen. It adds complexity and could make the game difficult to balance.

[Tribbler]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, not seen it while looking through the forums. But could you in effect switch sides? For example, you are a Klingon in the Federation and you decide that you want to go back to your roots and joing the Empire. Could you do this? Or is it a case of once you've chosen your faction you are stuck with it?

I don't know about you guys, but I plan on having a "darkside" and a "lightside" account. :)

[Laphtiya]

I do as well, I was just curious to know if this would be something that could be possible.

[wrussandrews]

Well as for the number of accounts it depends on the number of character slots.

If lifetimes are available I will probably purchase two or three.

[Beaver8]

But it boils down to if your character has skills and abilities that effect the ships performance. If your character is very charismatic and has really high technical skills but you've decided you're sick of the federation and want to switch sides why should you lose your characters abilities?
I might be the best engineer in starfleet and know every schematic to everything from toasters to warp cores. But doesn't mean you will even know how to turn the lights on in a romulan bathroom. You may be mechanically inclined but you defentally wouldn't know the tech to warrent keeping all your skills.

[Laphtiya]

I might be the best engineer in starfleet and know every schematic to everything from toasters to warp cores. But doesn't mean you will even know how to turn the lights on in a romulan bathroom. You may be mechanically inclined but you defentally wouldn't know the tech to warrent keeping all your skills.

While that might be true, you have a general understanding of why things work on a starship. But you'd have a better understanding over some one who has no knowledge at all in engineering. We're getting bogged down into technical details here, when we really don't need to be. If you were going to defect to the Romulans you would at least be able to speak/read their language and have at least some technical knowledge of their ships giving you a head start. If I give an example here it might help. You're Cardasian and you find out that your commanding officer is planning on attacking a Federation colony wiping out the population of women and children for what ever reason. You decide that you're going to warn the Federation because you don't agree with his/her actions. If you give up the information and get caught you'll be executed so you decide to defect to the federation providing them with all you know. This gains the trust of the federation (with possibly some limits at first) but cuts all ties with Cardassia.

[JDltc34]

I think maybe i should introduce another possiblity of faction swaping, after reading through the topic it seems to go back and forth so hears another direction. Maybe the alliance between the federation and klingons will still be in effect in someway and allow switching sides by way of that alliance. Or they might do that later in the game if realtions improve after hostilites/war. After all the borg are still out there as a potential major enemy.
Which reminds me, can you be assimalated in this game?

[TruthSeer]

Ok how about this as a compromise, say somewhere down the line as the story evolves the Klingon/Fed relations go back to what they were in the TNG era. A "transfer program" mission arc could be kind of cool, like what Riker did.

[Laphtiya]

Ok how about this as a compromise, say somewhere down the line as the story evolves the Klingon/Fed relations go back to what they were in the TNG era. A "transfer program" mission arc could be kind of cool, like what Riker did.

Nice example, that I could see working and would be a very good character development/story line.

[JDltc34]

Ok how about this as a compromise, say somewhere down the line as the story evolves the Klingon/Fed relations go back to what they were in the TNG era. A "transfer program" mission arc could be kind of cool, like what Riker did.

That does sound like a pretty cool compromise. Hopefully they come up with something like that for the game

[Hagon]

I wouldn't be adverse to a one time opportunity to defect being offered. Maybe a choice being given at the end of a special mission everyone does kind of halfway in their character's progression.

I'm still holding out hope that they don't go with the one server concept for STO. I'm hoping that Cryptic realizes that since it is supposed to be a faction vs faction conflict going on at the core of the game, and what players do in a lot of the game will effect the standing of their faction, they need to nurture the feelings of loyalty and dedication with the players within each faction. So to that end, I hope they see they must restrict faction played per server played on, and have multiple servers to accommodate people wanting to create alts of the opposing faction to see that side of the game.

[Rillanor]

I have advocated for defection in several posts. My personal reason is that I want to play for a Romulan faction.

I think it would be harsh to play a character for months/years until the Romulan expansion comes out, then have to abandon it and start from scratch. By allowing defection, it would allow those of us who wanted Romulans from the begining to play as them without loosing a hard worked character.

This would bring with it plus and minus points. Defection of high level characters would mean a third faction (please be Romulan :D) would be more quickly balanced against the Klingons and Federation. Meaning things like high level PvP between the new faction (Romulans) and the old two, would be possible in quick time rather then have to wait weeks/months until all the new characters had been rolled and levelled, allowing things like D'deridex Warbirds to face off against Galaxy class ships. It would also help to avoid a mad rush into the Romulan starting area, if thousands of people have to roll a new character to play as the Romulans.

Obviously, the defector must face penalties, such as having to trade that nice big shiny tier 5 ship, for a mush smaller tier 3 ship until they get their reputation up to a point where they can start using the high tier ships.

Okay remind me not to trust ANY Romulan Captains in Starfleet! :p:D especially you Harmony! ;)

[champforce]

Perhaps an espionage mission ? Get cosmetic surgery,(back to character creation) go behind enemy lines, and now you can run cross faction missions until you turn in, or complete your spy mission.

[walker555]

I really, sincerely, hope NOT. That would really be confusing.

"oh look a Klingon Battlecruiser"
"sir, its one of ours"
"okay dont fire"
-federation ship gets destroyed by battlecruiser

[LunaticFringer]

Ultimately I think the character generator and writing your own background is the limit on this one. Assuming we can "clone" a human avatar on the Klingon side or a Klingon avatar on the Federation side. I'm still crossing my fingers on this one since the topic of being a "rogue" has popped up a few times.

It'd be the most simplistic way to let us do it at least.

[Angelphoenix12]

I don't really think switching sides fits in the game, especially given the faction. If you were to switch to the Federation side (and survive your crew's mutiny) they'd debrief you of everything you know but then never let you near another starship, you've already shown yourself as not trust worthy. If you switched to the Klingon side they torture you for everything you know and then execute you for cowardice.

i agree with this, and i really hope we arent allowed to side switch. its not very star trekie.

[No1UKnow]

Personally I think you should just make an alt if you want to try out the other faction(s).

As far as I know, using an alt would be the only way you can faction hop. I don't know any mmo that allows a character from one faction to defect to the other side on the same server. When faction hopping is discussed, it generally means (in this case) logging off of your Federation toon and logging on to a Klingon toon. Your character isn't actually defecting, but you, as the owner of the account is faction hopping because there is a single server. You take with you extensive knowledge of whats happening on the other side.

It's not necessarily your fault if they have 1 server and allow players to make characters from both factions. I would call it a design flaw.

[dinendae]

I don't know any mmo that allows a character from one faction to defect to the other side on the same server.

EQ 2 had a betrayal mission at launch that started around level 15ish; you did a series of quests, ending in you betraying your faction's leader, and then you could go to the other faction anfter talking to that faction's recruiter and doing a series of quests for him.

[Laphtiya]

i agree with this, and i really hope we arent allowed to side switch. its not very star trekie.

Switching sides is not Star Trekie???????

What about 7 of 9, what about the Maquis (including half of Voyagers crew). The Cardassians who helped the Federation in DS9 (I forget his name) These and many more who switched sides at the end.

[dinendae]

Switching sides is not Star Trekie???????

What about 7 of 9, what about the Maquis (including hald of Voyagers crew). The Cardassians who helped the Federation in DS9 (I forget his name) These and many more who switched sides at the end.

Don't forget this guy: Stefan DeSeve (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Stefan_DeSeve)

[No1UKnow]

many Klingons called Worf a traitor, but they lacked understanding. Klingons aren't too bright ya see ;)

[Beaver8]

many Klingons called Worf a traitor, but they lacked understanding. Klingons aren't too bright ya see ;)

That's it...You have insulted Klingons for the last time...IT is time for fisty cuffs.....ON GUARD!!!!!

[No1UKnow]

That's it...You have insulted Klingons for the last time...IT is time for fisty cuffs.....ON GUARD!!!!!

lol Red Alert!

[Beaver8]

lol Red Alert!
OH CRAP!....He called my bluff.....CLOAKING DEVICE NOW!!!!!!! get us the HECK out of here!!!!!!!

[Laphtiya]

Fisty cuffs? Whats this the queensbury rules of Klingon? Now thats a concept I never thought I'd see