World of Warcraft worship

[Father_Origin]

There is one thing that will kill this game fast, and has sunk more games than any other.

Attempting to copy wow, or its structure, organization, ideals...will kill this game.

wow is lightening...works for them, kills anything else it touches.

If you plan on modeling ship combat after the wow 'raid group' sell the ip please.


lets get something straight

There are no healer ships in star trek
There are no buff ships in star trek
There are no wizzard ships (low armor, high damage) in star trek
There are no CC ships in star trek.

they make no sense..if you have them, might as well add a hunter ship that can tame rocks, as pets

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat


troop transport

science vessel

scout

supply ship

-------------no buff ships, super powerful ships with weak armor, ships that can heal other ships in
combat, no ships that can mezz other ships.

[MagnusTyrel]

if you think that then yer going to be disapointed, there will be healer ships there will be cloth type ships, its the nature of the beast just have to live with it...

[Tamgros]

Zinc has already said that 5 of the same class of ship is viable for PvE so I really don't think it will be as drastic as WoW. Clearly different ships have different functions though, right? Surely you realize that.

I really just think it depends on implementation and how much we can customize to our gameplay and don't have to min/max. That's where the true test lies...

[Hornet331]

:confused:

im rather confused by this post... sure there will be no such classes like in wow, but there will still be "healing ships", eg ships that can transfer energy, support your shields or help your crew.

Also mages... in the navy that would be a carrier, enormous firepower but very fragile and poor defences. If STO sticks somewhat to navy calssifications and we get a carrier it will be by your defninition a "mage".

Brawlers will be escort class a la defint class, strong guns, fast decent defence, but weak at distance....

[Rickyroughneck]

I agree exactly.

I like the idea that ships should be supporting each other in combat, and the idea of having certain ships better at supporting others (Excalibur for instance) is no bad thing. I just hope that the game will not deteriorate with certain ships pigeon-holed into certain roles, and certain "groupings" being infinitely more powerful than others.

A horrendous possibility that spring to mind, is of a really powerful combat orientated ship (such as the NX-91001 say) being supported by 3 Excaliburs all pooling in energy to super-charge it's combat abilities (and all sharing shields to make themselves near invulnerable).

Obviously this is no fun for the people in the Excalibur ships themselves or indeed the opponents to the group... I just really hope scenarios like this do not happen.

[Wallabees]

It's interesting that so many people regard the most successful MMO franchise ever to be such a terrible thing.

While I agree it would be pleasant to see STO break the 'class' mold, what would you suggest they replace it with?

Or would you rather there was no class distinctions as such? Will group play be as satisfying if we do not have specific roles to perform for the good of the team?

[MKIceman]

I agree with the original post's point, but disagree with the implementation.

I think Cryptic is doing well with ship design. Each ship seems more or less capable of sustaining itself in a realistic way while also fulfilling its role (or multiple roles for some).

What we are lacking is more detail about combat mechanics. So it's very easy for us to have misgivings about how combat will work since we are too familiar with the fantasy-style formula (tank, healer, DPS, buff/debuff).

The problem inherent to combat game design is making the combat varied enough to keep players interested. One of the biggest problems is balance, or ensuring that a single winning combination or setup becomes the deciding factor in all combat.

So while I agree that ship combat in real is as the original post outlines, this might not be as feasible for an MMORPG where interaction between players is a driving force of the game.

We will just have to "wait and see". :)

[Silverspar]

You seem to have no concept of what role based designs are then. This is a concept that has existed since time inmemorial.

Needless to say, even modern naval craft are speciallized as support, attack, and much more. Going to go and tell the military they need to stop being like WoW also?

[Starchild]

Well, I do hope they don't make combat a matter stealth with jamming > everything else.

If I'm in a galaxy class starship and some damn stealthed frigate jams my system and spends 15 minutes bombarding me to smithereens while all I can do is just sit there and scream insults.

This game will suck big time.

[Flexen]

if you think that then yer going to be disapointed, there will be healer ships there will be cloth type ships, its the nature of the beast just have to live with it...

I am wrought with heart stopping anticipation for my Star Fleet Enterprise clone ship equipped with the finest cloth robes the universe can offer. Should I go with the classic brown robe and hood?

[Deyvid]

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat


troop transport

science vessel

scout

supply ship



You are forgetting the canonical references to **drumroll** medical ships (a.k.a. hospital ships (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Hospital_ship)).

In the TNG finale, "All Good Things" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/All_Good_Things), we see that the USS Pasteur (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Pasteur) was an Olympic-class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Olympic_class) medical ship, captained by Captain Beverly Crusher.

What's that? This was an alternate future timeline, and not "real"? Okay.

In the DS9 episode, "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Inter_Arma_Enim_Silent_Leges_(episode)), Dr. Bashir attends a conference to discuss a proposal to transfer twenty-five Federation hospital ships (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_hospital_ship) over to Romulan control.


These medical / hospitals ships could easily transport medical teams over to another ship to render medical aid to the crew -- and the STO devs have said that our "general crew" can be injured and killed. We will be able to install advanced bio-beds in our sickbays to reduce and slow crew loss, but if we lose too many crew members we'd have to visit a starbase to pick up crew replacements. Rendering medical aid, via emergency away teams, is one way a player in a support ship could help another player.

The Power Transfer Beam (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Power_transfer_beam) is another way a support ship, like the Excalibur, could assist and support another ship.


I doubt we will see "healer ships", a ship that is just flying around doing nothing but "healing" and "buffing" other ships, the way a healer basically just stands still at the back of a group throwing insta-heals and HoTs at the tank and off-tank. Support ships in STO will probably be able to do a lot of missions on their own without just "being a healer" -- but when we have multiple ships working together against a common threat, it makes sense that some ships will assist other ships.

The USS Defiant was created as a warship, basically a tank / DPSer, and it makes sense that the Federation Starfleet and Klingon Defense Force would have ships that are capable of rendering aid and repairs to their combat ships.

[Silverspar]

I am wrought with heart stopping anticipation for my Star Fleet Enterprise clone ship equipped with the finest cloth robes the universe can offer. Should I go with the classic brown robe and hood?

Go with the violet and gold trim. Might set off the color of your warp nacelles better.

[qoona]

medical ship are more for planetary aid and after battle medical help. they were no haler ships. andi would hate havig tank ships... though it would have sense to have taunts aginst klingons... just hail them and say UR MAM HAD FLAT FOREHEAD!
And here you are, all klingo agro goes at your ship <_<

[Marytha]

You seem to have no concept of what role based designs are then. This is a concept that has existed since time inmemorial.

Needless to say, even modern naval craft are speciallized as support, attack, and much more. Going to go and tell the military they need to stop being like WoW also?

I don't think it's 'role based' that I/some am concerned about. It's more like, I would hate to see a ship heal another's hull, or use it's 'taunt' ability to 'tank'. I would prefer to see ships have more real world type roles. Now I'm not going to outline those roles, as I don't know them perhaps as well I should. Yes, your submarine should not plan on sending bombers somewhere, that seem evident, unless you're part of the Hikari mission. So, the submarine's role is different than the carrier, yet I don't they fall into the 'standard' roles of MMOs.

I hope that made sense.

Marytha

[MKIceman]

though it would have sense to have taunts aginst klingons... just hail them and say UR MAM HAD FLAT FOREHEAD!
And here you are, all klingo agro goes at your ship <_<
That one made me laugh out loud in real :D

[Silverspar]

I don't think it's 'role based' that I/some am concerned about. It's more like, I would hate to see a ship heal another's hull, or use it's 'taunt' ability to 'tank'. I would prefer to see ships have more real world type roles. Now I'm not going to outline those roles, as I don't know them perhaps as well I should. Yes, your submarine should not plan on sending bombers somewhere, that seem evident, unless you're part of the Hikari mission. So, the submarine's role is different than the carrier, yet I don't they fall into the 'standard' roles of MMOs.

I hope that made sense.

Marytha

You mean stuff that happened in Star Trek, transfering power, extending shields, sending crews over to repair damage? Really, it's aomsething silly to hate on when it is a staple of Star Trek.

[MKIceman]

You mean stuff that happened in Star Trek, transfering power, extending shields, sending crews over to repair damage? Really, it's aomsething silly to hate on when it is a staple of Star Trek.
I don't recall these things happening in the middle of heated combat. That is the concern here, not the mere existence of such technology for use before or after combat.

[Hagon]

The whole "x game just copied WoW" is a cliche, a myth, shows a complete lack of knowledge about the history of this genre.

[Hornet331]

The whole "x game just copied WoW" is a cliche, a myth, shows a complete lack of knowledge about the history of this genre.

indeed, more like wow copied form game x. :p

[Marytha]

You mean stuff that happened in Star Trek, transfering power, extending shields, sending crews over to repair damage? Really, it's aomsething silly to hate on when it is a staple of Star Trek.

hate on? hate on? not once mid battle have i seen crews sent over to repair damage. are you also willing to expect that the shields around your friends ship will require to stay next to them? Because what I have a problem with, are my ships casting spells. If you really want to get down to it, really I have only a problem with 'feeling' like my ship is casting a spell. for example, look, I clicked a button, a shiny blue energy pulse went to your ship and your hull goes up by hundred points.

*shrugs* Is that really so much to ask?

Marytha

[caspar21]

i cannot see power transfers being used in normal combat due to the linked destruction of ships.

i cannot see one ship "healing" another by sending repair crews over during battle because of the shield transport thing.

same with hospital ships assisting with medical attention.. transport during battle has always been a dangerous thing.

some ships could be robe classes because of the science ship's special attacks.. "fire a polaron beam to disrupt their shields"

there is a place for different classes of ships.. but they are not going to be a overpowered thing like in other mmorpgs.. it would not be cannon.

we all know that balance is what makes or breaks a mmrpg i trust cryptic, they have experience in this kind of thing.
;)

[indigowhale345]

Okay, seriously, WoW did not invent the wheel! Those archetypes the OP mentions existed long before WoW was even conceived, even before the original Warcraft. Yes its a pet peeve of mine when someone says or thinks every MMO is copying WoW, when in fact WoW is totally derivative and unoriginal itself.

I don't know what the game will bring us in this regard, but I'm in wait and see mode. I don't expect them to try and fit that overused holy trinity of archetypes, but I also have a hard time imagining an entirely different set of archetypes. When it comes down to it, there are some basics to boil everything down to in a class based game.

Hopefully every ship does a bit of everything. I certainly don't want to see someone in a taco freighter forced to sit on their hands for hours because they can't find a group that wants them, and they can't do anything on their own. That is what is more important, I think. But then we already know we won't be restricted to one ship either. So who knows what will happen?

[Thibor]

I think you'll have limited "resources", for lack of a better term, to allocate into differnt ship capabilities.

Meaning between how you allocate your ship's power coupled with what bridge crew and what skills of them you've raised along with what technologies you've incorporated into your ship, you'll move in the direction of some of the "traditional roles" found in other mmorpgs.

Raise the combat awareness of your tactical officer, divert 90% of ship's power to phasers (as opposed to shields) and use that new phaser technology you bargained off the Ferengi's ... voila ... "glass canon".
Doesn't mean your ship doesn't have armor.
Doesn't mean you can't throw ship's power back to shields.
Doesn't mean you don't swap out tactical officer out with one with a higher defensive tactics skill (if there is such a thing)
Doesn't mean you aren't working towards acquiring new information or technology to better your shield modulation to improve defensive capabilities.

Just means you tailored certain things to fill a needed role.

I see ships being much more versatile than a single "class" in other games but, I think that also like those classes in other games, you won't be able to max out everything at once. Meaning you won't have the absolute best offensive, defensive, scientific, medical and engineering capabilities at our fingertips all at the same time. You'll have to make choices.

[Matthias_DuBastyra]

I think I'll have my friends name all their ships according to function based on WOW: EM warfare =USS Wizard, Dreadnought =USS Fighter, Medical frigates= USS Cleric, Cloaking vessels= USS Rogue

Oh what fun! We're playing WoW in the stars!

[FltAdmiralZander]

My personal opinion on the combat situation is we all know how combat is from watching Star Trek. We all know that there are only two standard weapons that every ship gets, phasers and photon torpedos. Yes your more powerful ship may get the tri-cobalt or quantum torpedos. I completely agree with NOT being able to transport aide over to a damaged ship during combat.

My favorite Trek series was DS9. I loved the story line. It kust appeared to me that once the battle actually started the ships were pretty much on thier own. Only after the battle did the surviveing ships return to render assistance to less fortunate ships.

This is they way I hope to see combat dealt with in game. I hope there are no conventional classes. I also hope the ships are not balanced becuase honestly that not the reality of the situation. If you sennd 5 Galaxy Class ships and 5 Oberth Class ships to combat an enemy who do you suppose is most likely to come home. I, personally, would put my money on the Galaxy Class ships.

I dont know alot has yet to be reveiled. Just my opinion on the situation.

[VengefulTick]

I agree with the original post's point, but disagree with the implementation.

I think Cryptic is doing well with ship design. Each ship seems more or less capable of sustaining itself in a realistic way while also fulfilling its role (or multiple roles for some).

What we are lacking is more detail about combat mechanics. So it's very easy for us to have misgivings about how combat will work since we are too familiar with the fantasy-style formula (tank, healer, DPS, buff/debuff).

The problem inherent to combat game design is making the combat varied enough to keep players interested. One of the biggest problems is balance, or ensuring that a single winning combination or setup becomes the deciding factor in all combat.

So while I agree that ship combat in real is as the original post outlines, this might not be as feasible for an MMORPG where interaction between players is a driving force of the game.

We will just have to "wait and see". :)

What he said.

[Deyvid]

I doubt we will see many "insta-heals" in STO, or the "instant power buff" that makes a ship go from 15% power to 100% power instantly just because an Excalibur used their Power Transfer beam, or a ship whose hull integrity is down to 25% instantly gets back up to 100% because an engineering repair team was beamed over. If a ship takes heavy damage, and suffers lots of crew deaths, I doubt any Excalibur or other support ship will beam over crew replacements (visiting a starbase would be necessary for crew replacements).

Everything in Star Trek seemed to take time to get repaired, re-charged, etc. and it should be the same in Star Trek Online.

So I dont think we'll see a ship that is about to be blowed up to smithereens yelling for a heal from an Excalibur, then *ZAP* they are back in the battle at full power / full defenses. Things will probably take time, more like HoT's that take a few seconds to transfer power, or reinforce a structural integrity field.

[Manta2015]

This game will use the formula that works and not risk a failed system that'd cut subscriptions in half within the first few weeks ~ many other games risk such experimentation at our expense.

Don't like it because it's proven to be a successful system that works? I'd then consider a new genre of gaming, this is just how MMOs are at the moment.


-Manta-

[qoona]

The whole "x game just copied WoW" is a cliche, a myth, shows a complete lack of knowledge about the history of this genre.

Wasnt it same with RTS? Warcraft was a Dune 2 clone, and it was called that for some time, than the Dune 2 players went extinct, and all later RTS were called Warcraft clones <_<. Seem sblizard is good with PR and marketing:P

[J.L.Picard]

one of the most pointless posts i think i've ever seen...

[Marytha]

This game will use the formula that works and not risk a failed system that'd cut subscriptions in half within the first few weeks ~ many other games risk such experimentation at our expense.

Don't like it because it's proven to be a successful system that works? I'd then consider a new genre of gaming, this is just how MMOs are at the moment.


-Manta-

I may, and I'm sooo glad you could point out the trying something new never happens and will never happen.

[CaptainHanson]

There are no healer ships in star trek


-------------no buff ships, super powerful ships with weak armor, ships that can heal other ships in
combat, no ships that can mezz other ships.

There called Medical ships...

[Greenomen]

All I have to say about WoW is... I'm bored. Let the STO beta testing begin!!!

[MKIceman]

Everything in Star Trek seemed to take time to get repaired, re-charged, etc. and it should be the same in Star Trek Online.

So I dont think we'll see a ship that is about to be blowed up to smithereens yelling for a heal from an Excalibur, then *ZAP* they are back in the battle at full power / full defenses. Things will probably take time, more like HoT's that take a few seconds to transfer power, or reinforce a structural integrity field.
The concern is not repair time out-of-combat. The concern for many fans is fast repairs in-combat, and similar mechanics, not instant 'heals' (which most of us agree are unrealistic and imbalancing anyway). Fast in-combat repairs, akin to fantasy heals-over-time, are unrealistic and detract from the pace or excitement of combat by prolonging the fight.

On a clarification note, a medical ship in real and in Star Trek is not a ship that can heal other ships; it is a ship that carries medical personnel who can render medical aid to the wounded (i.e., living beings, and not the ships). Concerned players using the 'healer' term are referring to engineering ships that can repair other ships in-combat.

EDIT: Clarification note in response to Captain_Christian

EDIT: A little more to add.

Much of the fan dislike for this healer and buff concept revolves around the realism aspect, and much of the gamer dislike for this concept revolves around balance (i.e., the prolonged battle point). Another fan point I would like to raise is that we all revere Scotty. Scotty was able to jury-rig just about anything to get the Enterprise out of danger just in the nick of time. I think most fans and gamers alike would like to have their own personal Scotty, but some of us would prefer not to have someone else be a Super-Scotty for everyone in place of our own personal Scotty.

In gameplay terms, we should need to rely more on our own crews and skills in-combat, but again the danger here is marginalising the need to group with other players, which would seem to be a pre-requisite for any MMORPG.

[Deyvid]

The concern is not repair time out-of-combat. The concern for many fans is fast repairs in-combat, and similar mechanics, not instant 'heals' (which most of us agree are unrealistic and imbalancing anyway). Fast in-combat repairs, akin to fantasy heals-over-time, are unrealistic and detract from the pace or excitement of combat by prolonging the fight.
Ships should definitely have to disengage from active combat in order to receive power transfers and engineering repairs from support ships. It should not be a case of a support ship giving "heals" and power-ups to ships mid-combat the way a healer heals and buffs a tank in combat in traditional fantasy MMORPGs. And the HoTs in STO should take longer than the HoTs in traditional fantasy MMORPGs.


On a clarification note, a medical ship in real and in Star Trek is not a ship that can heal other ships; it is a ship that carries medical personnel who can render medical aid to the wounded (i.e., living beings, and not the ships). Concerned players using the 'healer' term are referring to engineering ships that can repair other ships in-combat.
Yeah, people are talking about "healing" a ship meaning to repair physical damage and damage to critical systems like propulsion, shields, etc., but the devs have also said that our Bridge Crew and general crew can also be injured and even killed (deaths would only apply to the "general crew"), which would reduce our efficiency, so medical aid (healing injured crew) may also be part of the help rendered by support ships.


EDIT:

Also, I originally mentioned medical ships simply because the OP forgot to include medical ships in the list of what types of ships exist. :)

[Kinjiru]

Attempting to copy wow, or its structure, organization, ideals...will kill this game.

Now, I'm no fan of WoW, but the flaw in your statement is that WoW itself copied the structure, organization and ideals of other games.

The only thing that they did differently than most other MMOs was to make the game more accessible to a wider market share.

And frankly, if Cryptic can make STO fun and engaging then I won't care where the ideas came from. Although in this case, I think we can safely say that there will be some degree of similarity between STO and Cryptic's two other major projects. (CoH/CoV and Champions.)

[Reinkaos]

Does EVE have the typical tank/dps/healer/CC roles? I ask as I'm unsure.. and thinking about how WoW is sort of homogenising all the classes (with dual specs, on top of several classes that can already tank/heal/dps, and even further making the output of these similar to "pure" classes).

STO seems to be doing this (enabling all ships to do all things), which I think is great, but I don't think they should be comparable in all areas; some ships simply do certain things better than others. A Defiant's "dps" will outmatch that of an Olympic class vessel by orders of magnitude (if someone's crazy enough to outfit their Olympic ship to "dps", by all means let them I think), and it will probably out-do an Excalibur.. likewise the medical and repair facilites and capabilities of the latter two ships will out-do that of a Defiant, or even an Intrepid, say (besides the industrious Voyager). An Excalibur will *always* be a better support ship than a Defiant no matter how you juggle things.

STO shouldn't fall into classes per se, but rather how you use your ship to get what you want done..

Infinite diversity, in infinite combinations. But not all things are equal :p

[Greenomen]

In gameplay terms, we should need to rely more on our own crews and skills in-combat, but again the danger here is marginalising the need to group with other players, which would seem to be a pre-requisite for any MMORPG.

I agree. IMO it is a major frustration for gamers trying to balance RL and gamming. I like the queuing system WoW uses for battlegroups, but trying to form 25 or 40 man for WoW raids is just too much of a headache for something that is suppose to be fun.

[Harmony-Jade]

OMG nooooooo. :eek:

I came to STO to get away from WoW.

Seems like the beast that is WoW is just too damned big to escpae. Even in a vast galaxy, there is no hidiing place :p

[wrussandrews]

I have never played WoW but I am stunned by its influence, both perception and reality.

Keep in mind that things are going to be similar, as there are only so many ways to implement a feature. Some make sense, and there are basics common to mmos.

WoW gets a lot of credit (or blame) due to its popularity, but it is not necessarily a pioneer. WoW is by no means the oldest mmo, and I am sure that you can find features in it that resemble other games.

[RanizMurjuri]

I think most of the people on these baords except those who ever played Earth & beyond, EVE, Freelancer, or Any Star trek ship based game. Will be disappointed.

the ship classes:

Frig
cruiser
heavy
dreadnaught
battleship


you have to take the whole Fantasy Class Role and turn it upside down.

there wont be healers, or support classes.

1: healing Ships have no weapons in which to use on normal combat.
they have enough weapons to defend themselves, but not enough to kill ( so exactly who would want to pilot this?)

2: Buff support cant exist in space, Because there is no magic in the Universe. and how do you put a buff ship together?

All of this will be taken care of in the Shipyards/spacedocks.. hence why the arguement of where poeple should respawn after fights.
Since no one would want to fly a medical/healer ship, because they would be forced to find groups.

[Elboulevardo]

There are 2 main problems i find reading through all these combat mechanic type threads
a) too many people are used to WoW and are finding ways to relate too much of WoW to STO...they are 2 different games in 2 different themes/settings/worlds...the mechanic by nature has to be considerably different to support the type of game STO is building up to be

b) the dev's have offered virtually no information on any combat mechanic detail. We dont know how health, mana/energy will work. The ship is as dependant on it's shields as it is on its crew and officers, will there be "health" bars to represent losses in those departmetns? we dont know.

point is, the community continues to see these discussions open up and peoples ideas get lambasted by certain (i wont name names but you know who you are) forum junkies about what is right/wrong when in the end, we just dont know enough about this part of the game to safely make any assumptions on how it's going to be.

WoW works for WoW...will it work for STO? i personally dont think so but who knows till the dev's show us something to prove it, right?

to discuss:
the points about healing/buffing ships not working in the WoW sense makes sense because buffs/heals are based on a Magic Fantasy concept...this is space combat and it would be flat out silly to see a medical ship apply a healing beam to a cruiser to restore it's "health" in combat...so it would make more sense (imo) to apply that mechanic differently, like perhaps sending over medical personnel to improve the crew's resilience during combat, or something more passive like that

engineer ships could send over advanced engineering crews to improve the ships rate of repair during combat, but not so much where allt he engineering ship would be doing is riding the coat tail of a galaxy sending over crew to repair the ship in combat...again that would seem silly (imo).

if there are going to be "buffs" in the game, id really like to see them as passive bonuses and not anything so substantial that you cannot win without them

[Thibor]

I think most of the people on these baords except those who ever played Earth & beyond, EVE, Freelancer, or Any Star trek ship based game. Will be disappointed.

the ship classes:

Frig
cruiser
heavy
dreadnaught
battleship


you have to take the whole Fantasy Class Role and turn it upside down.

there wont be healers, or support classes.

1: healing Ships have no weapons in which to use on normal combat.
they have enough weapons to defend themselves, but not enough to kill ( so exactly who would want to pilot this?)

2: Buff support cant exist in space, Because there is no magic in the Universe. and how do you put a buff ship together?

All of this will be taken care of in the Shipyards/spacedocks.. hence why the arguement of where poeple should respawn after fights.
Since no one would want to fly a medical/healer ship, because they would be forced to find groups.

You're thinking too inside the box I think.

"Buffs" is nothing more than a numeric advantage in the calculations that go on behind the scenes.

Let's say you've formed a group of 5 ships (let's call it a squadron for lack of knowing that Cryptic will define it as.) Infomation can flow between squadron vehicles.

If a ship in the squadron has a highly trained tactical officer (or perhaps even one of a particular species) then maybe there's so bonus that comes to all ships because of it.

Beaming emergency engineering or medical staff to a damaged ship in your squadron might help bring about field repairs quicker.

Reversing a tractor beam to try and repel to keep a heavy cruiser type enemy out of range would be a form of crowd control.

Extending your shields around a friendly vessel would be another form of a buff

No ... I don't see a group of captains sitting down in their ships before engaging in a fight, eating "buff foods" to give their tactical officer a stat boost or their engineer a stat boost, etc.

But combat gets reduced down a series of computations to determine damage output/taken, etc. And I think anyone who doesn't think there'll be methods for us to enhance our statistics in some way to give us a better chance (ie. "buffs") is naive. No ... it won't be a paladin casting Blessing of Might. But, different captains with different ships, different skill sets (in both captain and crew) etc. is most likely going to bring something more to the fight than just an additional number to the vessel count.

[_Pax_]

There are no healer ships in star trek
Excalibur class, equipped for repair duties.

There are no buff ships in star trek
Excalibur class, at least as far as shields go.

There are no wizzard ships (low armor, high damage) in star trek
Difiant class (abnormally high offense, but still a small ship, so somewhat limited durability)

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Federation Ship Categories
Escort (combat, DPS)
Science (research, ? buff / EW ?)
Explorer (durability/"tank", exploration)

Klingon Ship Categories
Raider (stealth, DPS)
Cruiser (combat, balanced)
Carrier (pet / tank)

Would you like to play again? If so, please insert more quarters ... :rolleyes:

[Arsinoe]

Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon! :D

[wrussandrews]

I think most of the people on these baords except those who ever played Earth & beyond, EVE, Freelancer, or Any Star trek ship based game. Will be disappointed.

the ship classes:

Frig
cruiser
heavy
dreadnaught
battleship


you have to take the whole Fantasy Class Role and turn it upside down.

there wont be healers, or support classes.

1: healing Ships have no weapons in which to use on normal combat.
they have enough weapons to defend themselves, but not enough to kill ( so exactly who would want to pilot this?)

2: Buff support cant exist in space, Because there is no magic in the Universe. and how do you put a buff ship together?

All of this will be taken care of in the Shipyards/spacedocks.. hence why the arguement of where poeple should respawn after fights.
Since no one would want to fly a medical/healer ship, because they would be forced to find groups.

Buffs could simulate morale, expendable resources (this fuel increases speed for example), character abilities (the engineer increasing energy output) and so on.

[Deyvid]

Klingon Ship Categories
Raider (stealth, DPS)
Cruiser (combat, balanced)
Carrier (pet / tank)


Don't forget Destroyer. The Raptor class (http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/raptor_class) is classified as a Destroyer.

[FedCaptain_Jared]

There is one thing that will kill this game fast, and has sunk more games than any other.

Attempting to copy wow, or its structure, organization, ideals...will kill this game.

wow is lightening...works for them, kills anything else it touches.

If you plan on modeling ship combat after the wow 'raid group' sell the ip please.


lets get something straight

There are no healer ships in star trek
There are no buff ships in star trek
There are no wizzard ships (low armor, high damage) in star trek
There are no CC ships in star trek.

they make no sense..if you have them, might as well add a hunter ship that can tame rocks, as pets

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat


troop transport

science vessel

scout

supply ship

-------------no buff ships, super powerful ships with weak armor, ships that can heal other ships in
combat, no ships that can mezz other ships.

Why do you think that Cryptic is copying WoW what evidence says that they are?

Just trust Cryptic, they known what they are doing and are using stuff from the shows and movies.

[Rillanor]

Ooh I can't wait for all these 'buffing' and 'healer' ships to start lowering there shields to apply aid, cos I for one intend to hit them with everything i have as soon as they do!

No buffing or Healing crap during Combat!

I hope they make your bridge crew your ships 'buffers' and 'Healers' through their skills combine with yours!

:p

[_Pax_]

Don't forget Destroyer. The Raptor class (http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/raptor_class) is classified as a Destroyer.


Frigate, Destroyer, Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Dreadnaught, Battleship ... those are SIZES. The Raptor is a Destroyer SIZED Raider. :)

[Fluxion]

There is one thing that will kill this game fast, and has sunk more games than any other.

Attempting to copy wow, or its structure, organization, ideals...will kill this game.

wow is lightening...works for them, kills anything else it touches.

If you plan on modeling ship combat after the wow 'raid group' sell the ip please.


lets get something straight

There are no healer ships in star trek
There are no buff ships in star trek
There are no wizzard ships (low armor, high damage) in star trek
There are no CC ships in star trek.

they make no sense..if you have them, might as well add a hunter ship that can tame rocks, as pets

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat


troop transport

science vessel

scout

supply ship

-------------no buff ships, super powerful ships with weak armor, ships that can heal other ships in
combat, no ships that can mezz other ships.


You have to have SOME sort of ship specializations. Why is Chess an infinitely more complex and interesting game than Checkers? The pieces are specialized. This gives them strengths and weaknesses. It's how you use those specializations that makes it a real game. It increases the challenge, and therefore, the fun.

[LunaticFringer]

I doubt you have just a whole lot to worry about, OP. However, I'd take into consideration that the standard fantasy mmo archtypes do fit into the same category as ship roles. If you break it down to the bare bones they are the same thing.

The shear fact that 5 ships of the same class will be viable in PvE seems to confirm there is little to worry about. Every ship has a role from the sounds of it but also has modular functions you can tailor them to.

It may wind up feeling like a talent/expertise system only for a ship but nonetheless versatile enough to not think of one ship design being the sole damage dealer in relative terms.

[thefreshjedi]

:confused:

im rather confused by this post... sure there will be no such classes like in wow, but there will still be "healing ships", eg ships that can transfer energy, support your shields or help your crew.

Also mages... in the navy that would be a carrier, enormous firepower but very fragile and poor defences. If STO sticks somewhat to navy calssifications and we get a carrier it will be by your defninition a "mage".

Brawlers will be escort class a la defint class, strong guns, fast decent defence, but weak at distance....

This is very true.

Every ship in our current Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_United_States_Navy_ships#Current_ships)has a different role. So let's put it into perspective from the WoW-Arcetype classes and subclasses.

(Warriors) Tanks
Aircraft carriers, capable of withstanding a lot of punishment, but also capable of dealing a lot of damage if needed with various long-range aircraft, missles, torpedoes (essentially these are floating cities which are self sustainable). They are great alone, but deadly when mixed in a multi-role support fleet, with cruisers or frigates as back-up.

STO = Akira class cruiser, or the highly debated Promethius class (for some examples)

(Mages)
Battleships - Long guns, extended range, also great for long-range artillery support from off-shore. Vulnerable to submarines and air superiority vessels, (like carriers, or aircraft bombardments). Great for long range attacks that can be devastating.
Cruisers - long range missle support craft, capable of launching tomahawk cruise missles, etc.

STO = Sovereign class, or Galaxy class. (examples)

(Hunters)
Battleships, Cruisers or Destroyers, depending upon their configuration, can also equally and effectively harass and sustain bombardment from long range, some also have (pets), which are smaller support craft or vessels in tow which work in tandem to maintain protection for close-range attacks.

STO = Sovereigns, Ambassadors, Galaxy Class (just some examples)

(Rogues)
Frigates - ASW (Anti-sub warfare craft) - modern usage: stealth tech, lower radar signatures, capable of launching surface to air, surface to surface, and underwater torpedoes. Coordinate counter strikes against other enemy craft. Various support roles.
Submarines - stealth technology. Strike and fade. Ability to hide for long periods of time, and strike when least suspected: modern usage includes nuclear technology. Capable of unleashing lethal strikes in a single blow. (Backstab)
Littoral attack Frigates (Druid-like cat speed) reflexive adaptive short range attackers, multi-role support. Light and fast attack (also has some stealth-like capabilities), but better know for intercepting smaller enemy craft along the shore as needed.

STO = Bird of Prey (or other Cloaked Tech Vessles), Defiant class, Nova (examples)

(Druids)
Cruisers (multi-role) support and attack crafts, capable of reconfiguring for various roles as needed. Also capable of tanking against other larger craft, (if and when needed). Excellent escort capabilities. All-around powerhouse of capabilities (especially if used in tandem with other multi-role craft).

STO = Sovvy's, Nova's, Intrepids, Miranda's (or other multi-role craft)

(Paladins, Priests) a.k.a. Healers
Hospital ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ship) - floating hospitals that are great for supporting medical care - on site, have a wide range of medical equipment on board, and can perform full operations if needed during times of warfare.
Fast Combat Support Ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_combat_support_ships) - for refueling, re-arming and providing general supplies as needed. (Also capable of some small combat usage for self-defense, etc.)
Salvage Ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvage_ship) - capable of towing and modest repairs to get vessels out of "hot water", capable of performing sea-welding, and other operations at sea to rescue and recover vessels as needed.


STO = Olympic class, (or any other ship that has been modified to fit this role)



So even in STO dynamics, there is the potential to have multi-class craft that are capable of different roles, (depending upon their refits, and individual characteristics or crew), which could work well in a group formation as necessary to perform raids, tactical choke-holds, or parties for instanced missions, etc.

The coolest part is that unlike WoW, STO has the versatility to use the same crafts for various different roles depending upon the players chosen talents, or areas of specialization.

I don't agree with the notion that WoW is a "bad example", of a "flawed group-style play MMO", if anything WoW has set the example for which many MMO's could learn a great deal about groups, grouping, raids, PvP, PvE, and whole range of other characteristics that many companies could glean from.

Now that being said: Do I want WoW in space? Hell no! I want something refreshed and robust, that is akin to WoW's dynamics, that blend many of the popular assets from other games all across the spectrum. And I think that's kind of what Cryptic is already aiming for.

-avery

[WikiUltimate]

I agree exactly.

I like the idea that ships should be supporting each other in combat, and the idea of having certain ships better at supporting others (Excalibur for instance) is no bad thing. I just hope that the game will not deteriorate with certain ships pigeon-holed into certain roles, and certain "groupings" being infinitely more powerful than others.

A horrendous possibility that spring to mind, is of a really powerful combat orientated ship (such as the NX-91001 say) being supported by 3 Excaliburs all pooling in energy to super-charge it's combat abilities (and all sharing shields to make themselves near invulnerable).

Obviously this is no fun for the people in the Excalibur ships themselves or indeed the opponents to the group... I just really hope scenarios like this do not happen.

Well, you have to think of that tacticly. while that is a good tactic if you are trying to repair or escort an important ship, 4 ships flying that close would have no manuverability and no reall fire power. phasers would end up hitting ally ships (and since there inside the shields do extra damage (provided frindly fire is in the game)) or just make them sitting targets.

[RanizMurjuri]

You're thinking too inside the box I think.

"Buffs" is nothing more than a numeric advantage in the calculations that go on behind the scenes.

Let's say you've formed a group of 5 ships (let's call it a squadron for lack of knowing that Cryptic will define it as.) Infomation can flow between squadron vehicles.

If a ship in the squadron has a highly trained tactical officer (or perhaps even one of a particular species) then maybe there's so bonus that comes to all ships because of it.

Beaming emergency engineering or medical staff to a damaged ship in your squadron might help bring about field repairs quicker.

Reversing a tractor beam to try and repel to keep a heavy cruiser type enemy out of range would be a form of crowd control.

Extending your shields around a friendly vessel would be another form of a buff

No ... I don't see a group of captains sitting down in their ships before engaging in a fight, eating "buff foods" to give their tactical officer a stat boost or their engineer a stat boost, etc.

But combat gets reduced down a series of computations to determine damage output/taken, etc. And I think anyone who doesn't think there'll be methods for us to enhance our statistics in some way to give us a better chance (ie. "buffs") is naive. No ... it won't be a paladin casting Blessing of Might. But, different captains with different ships, different skill sets (in both captain and crew) etc. is most likely going to bring something more to the fight than just an additional number to the vessel count.

If ships have skills like a Fantasy MMO..I'll be disappointed and i wont play, I'm playing because it's Star Trek and Not "Fantasy Space simulator" I hope i dont see a "skill bar" while moving around space.
have you ever noticed "Skill bars" limit what a person can do. Star Trek does not have those limits.

Reversing a tractor beam to repel is standard on a starship. i haven't played a Star trek sim that doesn't have Repel, on it's tractor beam.

again i haven't played a ST sim without Tranportable repair kits, and ships that carry at the least 10 repair kits.

You really cant say i'm thinking inside the box if you dont know what i'm thinking.
My inside the box thinking, has to do with "What you can do and what you cant do in a Non magic MMO"
Extending your shield is not a buff. it's an Engineering "trick" that can be accomplished, the downside is your shields are weaker protecting 2 ships.

Your "wingman" will be your support class.
How many weapons/power/shields ratio depicts the better ship. and seperates the "classes". like others have posted.

Monks have limited damage they can do. The very same hospital ship has they very same limited damage...eerrr
Well actually according to today's Military
Any ship Designated Hospital ( and i'll have to look it up) cannot carry guns, as it's only primary use is to help the wounded.
I did see one live hospital ship during Katrina.. and it sure didn't look like it had any form of defense, because militaries Aren't allowed to attack hospital ships.

[Silverspar]

I don't recall these things happening in the middle of heated combat. That is the concern here, not the mere existence of such technology for use before or after combat.

They did actually, quite regularly. And I doubt you will want to wait till after combat for your friends to give you power or send repair crews either.

[MKIceman]

They did actually, quite regularly. And I doubt you will want to wait till after combat for your friends to give you power or send repair crews either.
Can you give us some episode examples? Just to be clear, we are talking about in-combat (i.e., in the middle of a heated exchange of fire between ships) power transfers, shield extensions, and crew transfers.

Shield extensions I can see as I recall they had taken a phaser hit or two in a few episodes, but not during prolonged combat. But the other two?

[_Pax_]

Reversing a tractor beam to repel is standard on a starship.
No, it's not. In the TNG episode The Naked Now (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Naked_Now_(episode)), it is anything BUT "standard" to do such a thing:

With the fragment homing in on the Enterprise, Wesley develops the idea to turn the starship's tractor beam into a repulsor beam. MacDougal says it would take weeks to lay out new circuits for the idea to work.

[RanizMurjuri]

I don't agree with the notion that WoW is a "bad example", of a "flawed group-style play MMO", if anything WoW has set the example for which many MMO's could learn a great deal about groups, grouping, raids, PvP, PvE, and whole range of other characteristics that many companies could glean from.

Actually Lotro has a much better group dynamic than WoW, IMO.
And a much better skill system that compliments the group rather than just the player.

Now that being said: Do I want WoW in space? Hell no! I want something refreshed and robust, that is akin to WoW's dynamics, that blend many of the popular assets from other games all across the spectrum. And I think that's kind of what Cryptic is already aiming for.

I agree, I need something other than a "Fantasy MMO", something different and fresh.
Something just as addictive, but not at all the same.

[RanizMurjuri]

No, it's not. In the TNG episode The Naked Now (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Naked_Now_(episode)), it is anything BUT "standard" to do such a thing:

With the fragment homing in on the Enterprise, Wesley develops the idea to turn the starship's tractor beam into a repulsor beam. MacDougal says it would take weeks to lay out new circuits for the idea to work.

I said game.. not episode, not movie.. but game

[Silverspar]

Can you give us some episode examples? Just to be clear, we are talking about in-combat (i.e., in the middle of a heated exchange of fire between ships) power transfers, shield extensions, and crew transfers.

Shield extensions I can see as I recall they had taken a phaser hit or two in a few episodes, but not during prolonged combat. But the other two?

Picard or Riker ordered the shields to be extended around several craft throughout the series run of TNG. This was also done in TOS. Power transfering has happened a couple of times, in combat, in the episode, hence why the Excalibur has those abilities.

[nwtampaguy34]

WOW came out in nov 2004 and most people are playing since then. I played it but i stopped after 2 years as i wanted to try other mmo's. Most people dont play two different mmo's ! So also alot of people who have invested in 5 years playing mmo are too afraid to play anything else so they keep alot of people based on this fact. Im not saying WOW is a bad game. I just like to expand my mind a little more often then every 5 years

[_Pax_]

I said game.. not episode, not movie.. but game

You said NONE of those terms, you said only and exactly "Reversing a tractor beam to repel is standard on a starship." You did not qualify that as being "in games". On top of which, if you are so die-hard to have a Trek sim (and not a Trek MMO), you should be in favor of canon ... regardless of what otehr games have or have not done.

[RanizMurjuri]

You said NONE of those terms, you said only and exactly "Reversing a tractor beam to repel is standard on a starship." You did not qualify that as being "in games". On top of which, if you are so die-hard to have a Trek sim (and not a Trek MMO), you should be in favor of canon ... regardless of what otehr games have or have not done.

Well if your going to personally attack me on a non-edited post

Reversing a tractor beam to repel is standard on a starship. i haven't played a Star trek sim that doesn't have Repel, on it's tractor beam.


And exactly what point did i say i wanted to play a Star Trek Sim?
MMO has no difference, the MMO only stands for "Massively Multiplayer Online"
Anything can be a MMO it just requires a bunch of other poeple playing it at the same time on the same server.

[LordDave]

Eve has ships that assist in repair.
And just because we don't generally see huge fleet battles with ships repairing other ships...
(you know since the only fleet battles we've seen are DS9)
then it's safe to say that there probably are support ships floating about. Hell, we have it in the Air Force and the Navy. So why the hell not in Star Trek?

[MKIceman]

Picard or Riker ordered the shields to be extended around several craft throughout the series run of TNG. This was also done in TOS. Power transfering has happened a couple of times, in combat, in the episode, hence why the Excalibur has those abilities.
Yes, shield extensions I have seen, as I said. :) But what about power transfers and beaming crew during combat?

I fail to find any episode where power transfers happened in-combat.

The closest I can find is in TNG 'Timescape' when the Enterprise-D was transferring power to a Romulan warbird out-of-combat, but the warbird began firing on the Enterprise mid-transfer in order to terminate the beam.

And in several episodes it was made very clear that they were unwilling to beam personnel to or from the Enterprise because they would have to drop their shields and risk destruction.

[MKIceman]

Eve has ships that assist in repair.
And just because we don't generally see huge fleet battles with ships repairing other ships...
(you know since the only fleet battles we've seen are DS9)
then it's safe to say that there probably are support ships floating about. Hell, we have it in the Air Force and the Navy. So why the hell not in Star Trek?
Sure, but are they used very much in the middle of combat? That is the realism and game balance concern here, not the mere existence of support craft.

[Silverspar]

Sure, but are they used very much in the middle of combat? That is the realism and game balance concern here, not the mere existence of support craft.

Yes, they are used in combat. If you want a flight simulator, then I suggest going and playing that. Most of us actually want a game that is fun and enjoyable for everyone,a nd like it or not, not everyone wants to be flying the Defiant 24/7, some people actually like to support, and like it or not, the concept of transferring power in combat and sending repair crews over, in combat, is not a foreign concept.

I know it's impossible to imagine, that the advanced 24th century could of never thought of putting together ships that were specifically designed to regenerate the shielding of another starship or even help transfer crew over to repair hull breaches though they can mend broken bones with a tricorder and bring people back from near death with a hypospray :p

[dibchib]

Eve pulls off this without much of a hitch although there so far hasnt been a role for this type of ship in star trek so far (i.e shield transfer etc during combat) this doesnt mean the technology cant be written into the story line

and the reason WOW has such a bad rep regardless of its success is more to do with the general stereotype of people playing it

the more mature / older players tend to play eve while wow is basically full of brats

i hope cryptic come up with something new but if any model is chosen to copy then it should be eve and not wow as wow is basically no different than games like lineage or POTBS and they just blow

iin this day and age i expect nothing less than being blown away with visuals and gameplay from a new game...especailly when eve offers this and with ambulation coming in (walking in stations) and other planned expansions into planetary flight and even management cryptic i feel will be hard pushed to provide something "new"

[Silverspar]

the more mature / older players tend to play eve while wow is basically full of brats

Okay, I gotta call you on this one. If this (http://propaganda.eve-razor.com/propaganda19.jpg) represents the greater maturity of the EVE community, then trying to elevate yourself over WOW is a doomed effort.

[MKIceman]

Yes, they are used in combat.
I'm sorry, but I was asking for an on-screen reference, because you stated:
You mean stuff that happened in Star Trek, transfering power, extending shields, sending crews over to repair damage? Really, it's aomsething silly to hate on when it is a staple of Star Trek.
And I cannot find any Star Trek TV show references to what you are saying about transferring power or beaming crews in the middle of combat. So I fail to see how this is 'Star Trek'. It is good gameplay, but not Star Trek.

As for the rest of your post, I think you will find that I have been the one saying all along that I favour a balanced approach for the reason of MMORPG gameplay feasibility:
The problem inherent to combat game design is making the combat varied enough to keep players interested. One of the biggest problems is balance, or ensuring that a single winning combination or setup becomes the deciding factor in all combat.

So while I agree that ship combat in real is as the original post outlines, this might not be as feasible for an MMORPG where interaction between players is a driving force of the game.

So I would appreciate it if we could not make assumptions about what other authors think or desire, and merely stick to the content of the posts.

Thanks :)


Back on-topic, my personal view is that the balance in Star Trek Online should favour a slightly more realistic approach in order to accommodate the 'tall ship' design and fast pace of space combat, but I am uncertain how Cryptic can achieve that while still making combat varied enough to accommodate group gameplay.

[Silverspar]

I'm sorry you want to ignore the facts to. It was mentioned, this isn't a specific episode or even event, this was a common thing that happened regularly in Star Trek.

[MKIceman]

I'm sorry you want to ignore the facts to. It was mentioned, this isn't a specific episode or even event, this was a common thing that happened regularly in Star Trek.
You mention these facts... Can you please show me when they happened in Star Trek? :)

[Tornkool]

Battleship -combat - so this isnt like a rogue or a feral drood or a ret pally ? :D
frig. - combat, fast mover - or maybe thisisnt like a rogue or a feral drood ? :D
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat - this could be the Death Knight pre - nerf! :o
fighter carrier- combat - well whatever one you want that to be .......


troop transport - um yeah Droods cause they can Battle Rez ? :D

science vessel - Priest, pally, drood

scout - Hunter !

supply ship - Mages that can cook LOL . (my wife is this one)


Anyways each of the ships have a utility in every situation they come across.
Like the Excalibur class it will be a "healer" with its super defensive capabilities.
This class will be loved !

OMG I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THIS GAME !!!!!!!

Please Cryptic DO US LIKE YOU WOULD YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS !!!!!!!

[No1UKnow]

Battleship -combat - so this isnt like a rogue or a feral drood or a ret pally ? :D
frig. - combat, fast mover - or maybe thisisnt like a rogue or a feral drood ? :D
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat - this could be the Death Knight pre - nerf! :o
fighter carrier- combat - well whatever one you want that to be .......


troop transport - um yeah Droods cause they can Battle Rez ? :D

science vessel - Priest, pally, drood

scout - Hunter !

supply ship - Mages that can cook LOL . (my wife is this one)


Anyways each of the ships have a utility in every situation they come across.
Like the Excalibur class it will be a "healer" with its super defensive capabilities.
This class will be loved !

OMG I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THIS GAME !!!!!!!

Please Cryptic DO US LIKE YOU WOULD YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS !!!!!!!

Good gawd there are going to be some disappointed people who try this game.....

[Atavax]

There is one thing that will kill this game fast, and has sunk more games than any other.

Attempting to copy wow, or its structure, organization, ideals...will kill this game.

wow is lightening...works for them, kills anything else it touches.

If you plan on modeling ship combat after the wow 'raid group' sell the ip please.


lets get something straight

There are no healer ships in star trek
There are no buff ships in star trek
There are no wizzard ships (low armor, high damage) in star trek
There are no CC ships in star trek.

they make no sense..if you have them, might as well add a hunter ship that can tame rocks, as pets

Here are the ship types:

Battleship -combat
frig. - combat, fast mover
deadnaught - rare, expensive slow combat
fighter carrier- combat


troop transport

science vessel

scout

supply ship

-------------no buff ships, super powerful ships with weak armor, ships that can heal other ships in
combat, no ships that can mezz other ships.



classes such as healer, tank, dps, is not wow. it is most successful mmo's that have ever been created and been in existence far before wow.