Section 31

[FedCaptain_Jared]

I am sorry if this topic was discussed already i just couldn't find it

But are we going to see Section 31 agents in STO?

If you don't remember section 31 this should remind you http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Section_31

It would be interesting to awoken one day and be in a different spot then your quarters and you have to finnish a mission then discover that it was a holoprogram then Section 31 agents come in tell you about what happen and ask you to join them or not.

And I want to learn about some of their dealings and uncover them and the organization.

Section 31 might even be apart of or caused some of the events that are happening in the path to 2409 story line.

[wrussandrews]

I doubt there is a firm decision on anything like this at this time. Would make for a great mystery though.

[Nytok]

I'd like to see Section 31 content in the game. I'd love to foil some of their plans.

[FedCaptain_Jared]

I doubt there is a firm decision on anything like this at this time. Would make for a great mystery though.

Yeah it would be a good mystery to try and solve

[FedCaptain_Jared]

Another deal they could do is have one of your bridge crew be discovered to be a Section 31 agent who is stopping you or slowing you down from completing a mission like what Reed did on a episode of Star Trek Enterprise

[mdacunha]

I also support this idea, it would be interesting to see an agent approach you and offer a mission. Completing this could lead to a set of missions which unwrap a series of stories detailing the present context of Section 31 and perhaps a little about its history. We could see a counter-part in the Tal-Shiar and Klingon Intelligence. I hope the devs notice this, it won't take much work and could work as a similar thing happened in SWG and the RPG Oblivion (approached by a stranger offering a mission...).

[ramjam380]

If the devs told us about it, they'd have to kill us :)

[FedCaptain_Jared]

If the devs told us about it, they'd have to kill us :)

:D lol it would explain why we haven't heard about them

[MoppyCGDaniels]

Since Section 31 was a part of the Federation Charter, either them weren't Starfleet Intelligance.

This is more a matter likely cloacking technology or stealth spaceships & it's somehow awkward. Personaly I allways was a friend to those ideas, especialy Special Ops.

I could imagine myself in a Runabout or a Peregrine fighter...

[wrussandrews]

If the devs told us about it, they'd have to kill us :)

Ok that settles it. I would rather not know!

[SirReginaldo]

Maybe this could lead to inner conflict within the federation as 31 would push for war to happen so that they could remove the Klingon Empire as a threat, in some way:D Same goes for the Klingon's. While many would actually push for peace in a sense to fight the Romulan Empire, fearing a double front, many would be too proud and find it honorable to fight two of their greatest competitors for supremacy:D

[Janaus]

Seeing as I RP a Section 31 operative, I hope they do! :) As for including them in, it's pretty safe to assume they'd count as a "faction" in Starfleet, and if I remember right the Dev's mentioned factions in passing at one point... sooo... i hope :P

[FedCaptain_Jared]

Maybe this could lead to inner conflict within the federation as 31 would push for war to happen so that they could remove the Klingon Empire as a threat, in some way:D Same goes for the Klingon's. While many would actually push for peace in a sense to fight the Romulan Empire, fearing a double front, many would be too proud and find it honorable to fight two of their greatest competitors for supremacy:D

I don't know about that the klingons are tough and Section 31 is working to protect the Federation in secret ways.

And they can't push for war if they do they would expose themselves and show the whole federation Section 31 if they do push for war it would be in a disguise of a made up person who is a major leader.

[MoppyCGDaniels]

Ok that settles it. I would rather not know!

A assignement with the Aeon timeship for these esential Fed citizens...

[FedCaptain_Jared]

I wonder if Section 31 is apart of some of the events that have been happening in the Path to 2409 time line?

[MoppyCGDaniels]

I wonder if Section 31 is apart of some of the events that have been happening in the Path to 2409 time line?

Let's see how the intruiging situation with the Talshy Jar & Romulan Senators turn out. Especialy with the end of the Dominion War & the results for Humans, Klingons & the Romulans.

Atleast to become a Command like the time investigating Braxton.

[WikiUltimate]

it might be included, would be cool for a fed player

[seancorycooper]

I want section 31 in the game as a career path for fed captains..not just as npc's. also want the equivalent organization for every race introduced into the game(where there IS an equivalent organization). I want different, harder missions for those who go the black ops route..the potential for behind the scenes, gameworld-changing intrigue could be pretty sweet..depending on implementation.

[seancorycooper]

So, this is what I'm thinking..we all know what section 31 is..what I propose is that it be included(along with the equivalent org for the klingons) as a sub-faction career path at launch, just like the other career paths..except, these missions would have a separate,pvp-oriented mission chain. its black ops; the missions should be harder, and rewards better..not all pvp, but generally difficult missions that require a "special ops" person. with access to special tech. how I envision this is, you have to figure out how to get into section 31, ala the old SWG "jedi" grind(but less of a grind). then you get a visit from an npc section 31 "old man", and you can choose to join or decline. same for other factions. the nature of the grind, and the pvp-centric nature of the missions, will make it so only players who really want this playstle will pursue it, so there won't be a sitch where EVERYONE is section 31......./discuss

[J.L.Picard]

my sig here is against section 31 cos they are gone. and i hope they stay gone

[LordDave]

Section 31 can still exist. Sloan may be dead, but you can bet your starship he left an apprentice.
I wouldn't mind a mission or two, but I don't think it needs to go so far as to be a sub faction.

[J.L.Picard]

LMFAO Dave, "bet your starship" lol tell you what ill bet you a sabre class starship lol

[SirReginaldo]

Problem with that. That would be impossible cause everyone in star fleet would be section 31:D I can see it now. Do you want to join an organization that is all stealth and cool as he flashes the sun in your face with his reflective sun glasses, with what you think is a cool grin:D

[Silverspar]

Section 31 isn't a career path, it's basically what extra board and paranoid security officers become.

[TruthSeer]

I agree with Dave, Section 31 should have some missions but not be a career path. Would kind of go against the point to have them openly recruiting.

[Padriuq]

So, this is what I'm thinking..we all know what section 31 is..what I propose is that it be included(along with the equivalent org for the klingons) as a sub-faction career path at launch, just like the other career paths..except, these missions would have a separate,pvp-oriented mission chain. its black ops; the missions should be harder, and rewards better..not all pvp, but generally difficult missions that require a "special ops" person. with access to special tech. how I envision this is, you have to figure out how to get into section 31, ala the old SWG "jedi" grind(but less of a grind). then you get a visit from an npc section 31 "old man", and you can choose to join or decline. same for other factions. the nature of the grind, and the pvp-centric nature of the missions, will make it so only players who really want this playstle will pursue it, so there won't be a sitch where EVERYONE is section 31......./discuss

I agree that Section 31 should be included in the game.. but it should not be a career path you can choose, especially at characther creation.. section 31 selected their members and put them to the test.. I think what would be a neat idea is certain missions that you get, say for example 5 missions have different outcomes depending how you as captain handle them..., I say if you handle these missions in a certain way(like a combination lock) it then opens up a chance for section 31, after you unlock the combination a section 31 agent approaches you at some point and gives you test missions.... Once you complete them to (section 31 standards) you are then made a section 31 agent and it opens up a whole chain of Black ops missions for you at various levels in your career.
In MMO's to many things are handed out just cause people want them not because they did things to earn them.... lets have something in the game that you have to earn and work for so not every tom, dick and jane in Star Fleet is a Section 31 agent.

Just my opinion///

[J.L.Picard]

the only way id want to see S31 in the game is if it involved the destruction of it forever, if you are so into being someone from S31 Federation is not for you, go be a mindless Klingon instead.

[SirReginaldo]

When you think about it they should exist. However, in all truth, there should be a random generator, where people who have done certain things get accepted into the organization. Basically this would include competitive PvEvP against their own Faction. That and their numbers should be small. So in the case of missions they should be stealthy or in the shadows. While your allies in the Federation do what they need to do, you in the background do something as well:D
There should also be a way to get either kicked/memories erased by a drug or something:D

[Loekii]

I agree with Dave, Section 31 should have some missions but not be a career path. Would kind of go against the point to have them openly recruiting.

I have always envisioned them operating as an NPC Group (ie Agent Dawn/WoW, or EQ/Cult of X), rather than being a 'career path'.

Basically, players would have to work to gain their 'attention', would be approached and offered side quests, and as they raise their Rep with Section31, they would get other side quests, etc.

However, other groups in the Federation would become 'suspicious', which would be reflected in a decrease in reputation in other Federation Groups -- say 'Elite Forces', and thus closing doors to those group's content. This would be similar to how Group Reputation worked in EQ.

[SirReginaldo]

If you really want to be in "Section 31", why not make a fleet like them. Start a registration thing, but call it something else and start recruiting people through PM's or something. Then people wouldn't know you are Section 31 or anything like that and you can work from the shadows or something.:D
Kinda being a more competitive organization you could affect the game and other fleets/factions through your actions:D I wouldn't be surprised if this is already in effect:D

[Padriuq]

the only way id want to see S31 in the game is if it involved the destruction of it forever, if you are so into being someone from S31 Federation is not for you, go be a mindless Klingon instead.

Wow that is very short sighted of you... if you do not like Section 31 and it is in the game then do not join. but there are people on here that would enjoy the types of missions that being in section 31 would include.. can't say for sure if I am one.. but I can see the possibilities and would not prevent it from being included.

Think about it.. there can be different organizations some secret some not that you have to work to be a part of..
Lets Say Cryptic adds Section 31, it could contain certain Black ops that require a person to be in PVP to complete

Now lets ad Red Squadron (i know it is a Star Fleet Acacemy thing, but it is also a fraternity of sorts) you could join that and as part have certain missions that only Red Squadron members can have...

Doing things like that allow the game to branch out in different directions and allow it to be new for new Characters you create.....

Before you just outright condemn an idea... think about how it can benefit and even enhance game play.. if not for you but then for someone else.. because for this game to be a success it is going to have to appeal to more then just you and I.

[J.L.Picard]

Wow that is very short sighted of you... if you do not like Section 31 and it is in the game then do not join. but there are people on here that would enjoy the types of missions that being in section 31 would include.. can't say for sure if I am one.. but I can see the possibilities and would not prevent it from being included.

Think about it.. there can be different organizations some secret some not that you have to work to be a part of..
Lets Say Cryptic adds Section 31, it could contain certain Black ops that require a person to be in PVP to complete

Now lets ad Red Squadron (i know it is a Star Fleet Acacemy thing, but it is also a fraternity of sorts) you could join that and as part have certain missions that only Red Squadron members can have...

Doing things like that allow the game to branch out in different directions and allow it to be new for new Characters you create.....

Before you just outright condemn an idea... think about how it can benefit and even enhance game play.. if not for you but then for someone else.. because for this game to be a success it is going to have to appeal to more then just you and I.

if you are section 31 you are going to jail. end of discussion.

if you use a S 31 bonus(e.g items or tech) jail, u meet a s31 person,jail. S31 are enemies of Starfleet/Federation whether u like it or not. the idea that starfleet is not going to notice is what is ignorant. Hey picard nice plasma gun... romulun huh, howd u get it JAIL!!!

[Zomeguy]

if you are section 31 you are going to jail. end of discussion.

if you use a S 31 bonus(e.g items or tech) jail, u meet a s31 person,jail. S31 are enemies of Starfleet/Federation whether u like it or not. the idea that starfleet is not going to notice is what is ignorant. Hey picard nice plasma gun... romulun huh, howd u get it JAIL!!!

I'm not sure what you have against the idea of Section 31 being in game. It would add a nice element to the game to have opposing factions within the federation/klingons. As for "JAIL!" it is a SECRET organization for a reason. Also from the DS9 series the were instances of the Federation unofficially supporting section 31 or at least having supporters in high ranking positions.

[Loekii]

Actually, as the series demonstrates, Section 31 is able to operate in the shadows.

So players' interaction with 'Section 31' would similar to Malcom Reeds interaction -- where neither Star Fleet, nor even Archer knew of the relationship, nor the actions taken in the Interests of Section 31.

I am sure Kestrel could come up with some interesting plots just along those lines, that would provide interesting gameplay, but also maintain the 'secrecy' of Section 31 (as well as other such covert side operations).

[Padriuq]

if you are section 31 you are going to jail. end of discussion.

if you use a S 31 bonus(e.g items or tech) jail, u meet a s31 person,jail. S31 are enemies of Starfleet/Federation whether u like it or not. the idea that starfleet is not going to notice is what is ignorant. Hey picard nice plasma gun... romulun huh, howd u get it JAIL!!!

I thought these forums where to discuss the game and what future users would like to see not start role playing... my suggestion to you would be think about the game as a game and what would enhance game play, and above all get a LIFE.....

[TruthSeer]

I'm not sure what you have against the idea of Section 31 being in game. It would add a nice element to the game to have opposing factions within the federation/klingons. As for "JAIL!" it is a SECRET organization for a reason. Also from the DS9 series the were instances of the Federation unofficially supporting section 31 or at least having supporters in high ranking positions.

Unless I'm forgetting something, Section 31 is Starfleet's Tal Shiar (sp?) or Obsidian Order just a lot better at their jobs.

[Zomeguy]

Unless I'm forgetting something, Section 31 is Starfleet's Tal Shiar (sp?) or Obsidian Order just a lot better at their jobs.

They function the same but they are not officially supported by the government like the tal shiar and obsidian order were.

[MKIceman]

Unless I'm forgetting something, Section 31 is Starfleet's Tal Shiar (sp?) or Obsidian Order just a lot better at their jobs.
No, the Tal Shiar is sanctioned and recognised to exist by the Romulan government, and is given official authority to act in the manner in which it does. Section 31 is not acknowledged to exist by Starfleet, and they operate beyond any authority or Federation law. In Federation parlance, Section 31 would be considered a self-appointed elitist club that likes to play God.

Should players be allowed to play God? Perhaps not. Should players be allowed to interact with, or at least see, God occasionally? Perhaps so.

It might contradict what the Federation stands for and serve as a nice rallying point for Federation enemies to decry hypocrisy, but those are what make it an interesting plot device if nothing else. Like the Tal Shiar, I see it as remaining a plot device and out of the hands of those who are meant to participate in the plot (i.e., players).

[TruthSeer]

They function the same but they are not officially supported by the government like the tal shiar and obsidian order were.

No, the Tal Shiar is sanctioned and recognised to exist by the Romulan government, and is given official authority to act in the manner in which it does. Section 31 is not acknowledged to exist by Starfleet, and they operate beyond any authority or Federation law. In Federation parlance, Section 31 would be considered a self-appointed elitist club that likes to play God.

Hence why they are better, what is the point of a shadow organization that handles all of the dirty work and is at the same time advertised by the government and known to exist by everyone.

[MKIceman]

Hence why they are better, what is the point of a shadow organization that handles all of the dirty work and is at the same time advertised by the government and known to exist by everyone.
What is the point of having a government if a shadow organisation is allowed to do whatever it wants and answers to no one.

[TruthSeer]

What is the point of having a government if a shadow organisation is allowed to do whatever it wants and answers to no one.

While Section 31 wasn't officially sanctioned they had to be a part of Starfleet since they were able to basically give orders to Admiral Ross. DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"

[MoppyCGDaniels]

Black OPS is in sometimes neccesary by the end justyies the actions.

But I'd could imagine PvP missions given by a Section 31 operative. Alike an operation on the USS Relativity for the time observing nature, to protect the timeline against violations. As a Fed it'll be nead to unlock such department's commands.

To this date it was a good dogfight @ the aircraft carrier in SL where I've my plane btw.

But I'd rather enjoy one of the orbital spacedocks at the Earth. When Red Squad was send out for a training mission.

[mdacunha]

I personally think they are the real heroes of the Federation, I personally wonder what sorts of activities these guys get into that never get any attention, but I am also the same person who believes that the ends always justiy the means! There are some interesting ideas here and it appears that the majority of us really do want to see some interaction with them to a certain degree...

[MKIceman]

While Section 31 wasn't officially sanctioned they had to be a part of Starfleet since they were able to basically give orders to Admiral Ross. DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"
In any military chain-of-command, there is no 'basically give orders' or ambiguity in authority; either you have the authority to order an admiral, or you do not. Admiral Ross chose to help Section 31 of his own accord, and this is another indication that Section 31 are merely a group of Starfleet personnel who took it upon themselves to act.

In real-world 'black bag' operations, the operation is organised and funded by someone accountable. The operation itself might not have been authorised or acknowledged by a higher authority (e.g., the government), but it would not exist without direction and funding by the immediate authority (e.g., the military or intelligence organisation that created it).

In Star Trek, the details of Section 31 were kept almost as mysterious as the Tal Shiar once were, and mystery fuels the audience's imagination. We can only speculate whether or not Section 31 is a 'rogue organisation' as I describe and not actually created by Starfleet Intelligence or Starfleet Security or somesuch. But I put forth that at least some evidence shows that it is a completely rogue organisation, one that was subverted by other Starfleet officers who would otherwise have been reprimanded if the organisation were sanctioned.

As for heroism, there is initiative and then there is vigilantism. I see the Section 31 concept as embodying an extreme form of vigilantism in order to illustrate the 'greater good' moral and ethical issue in exaggerated detail. It was a wonderful plot device to show that the Federation in practice is not perfect since it cannot adequately police itself (and attempts to police others therefore become hypocritical). I believe it was also meant to show that the Federation's ideals were more important than the 'greater good', otherwise they would not have portrayed Section 31 in such a sinister or 'evil' light.

Because Section 31 represents a clear contradiction in what is easily recognisable as Starfleet and the Federation, I honestly hope this does not become a playable career path. I think a game like this needs relatively clear, simple, and extreme faction differences, and the 'shades of grey' offered by Section 31 confuse those faction differences. (Incidentally, I feel the same way about the Romulans as a playable faction, because of their constantly and opportunistically changing affiliations.)

I think Section 31 would provide some excellent mission content, but otherwise not a playable career path.

[FedCaptain_Jared]

All good posts guys

Section 31 would be a interesting faction in the game. If you join them you would get missions but you can't pick them they would, this is how it would happen, One day you come in to your quarters and there one is a Section 31 agent, you come in he says We have a mission for you and describes it and you would take it.

I like the idea of providing missions to you that make you question your actions and the actions of Section 31

If you want to join Section 31 thats fine but there should be a consequence to joining them, because these guys are not the best in the world they hid in secrets and cover ups and totally cut themselves off from everything.

And i think that those who don't join Section 31 should be able to uncover those who are in it and also be able to try and uncover and expose Section 31.

The decison to join or not should be a tough one in my opinion, it should be a lot like in the epsiodes of DS9.

[seancorycooper]

yeah jared, I think having every factions section 31 in game would add so much to the overall game storyline..love the idea of other players trying to figure out who in it and who's not. this really needs to happen :)

[seancorycooper]

wait..how about this..linked missions. what I mean is, say regular faction player "joe" pulls a mission to uncover a section 31 operation..but joe isn't cleared high enough to know what sec 31 is up to. that mission would generate a counter-mission for a sec 31 player to stop joe from achieving his objective..make these kind of missions non-combat..battle of wits /intrigue instead..could also make pvp missions like this and pit black ops group vs another factions black ops group..I want a secret war going on in this game..man the possibilities..hehe..

[Pyreal]

Pfft, I wanna join Sec31! Get to toture some little piggies... >=)~

/secret handshake