Failed MMOs : AoC (Age of Conan)

[Arokh72]

Just like the SWG one but using AoC as the example.

Keep the bare boobies of AoC out of it too :p

[Beaver8]

Just like the SWG one but using AoC as the example.

Keep the bare boobies of AoC out of it too :p
I fail to see the point in this post.

[dinendae]

AoC hasn't failed yet; it's still running. Tabula Rasa has failed, as has Auto Assualt. Shadowbane has failed and will be shut down soon. Neocron is on its last leg and may very well close as well.

[Silverspar]

AoC hasn't failed yet; it's still running. Tabula Rasa has failed, as has Auto Assualt. Shadowbane has failed and will be shut down soon. Neocron is on its last leg and may very well close as well.

Shadowbane was shut down a while ago. Neocron was never a big name game,a nd didn't get much out of Germany, let alone Europe, though id id love it before they went to the "Neocron 2" version of the game.

[dinendae]

Shadowbane was shut down a while ago.

I had heard they were supposed to shut down last month, but pushed back the shutdown date to this month sometime. It's been a free to play game for a while now.

[eNDIE]

well lately it seems that AOC has stopped the bleeding .

[Citationpilot]

All I read out of this was booby discrimination :(

[dinendae]

All I read out of this was booby discrimination :(

Trust me, there's no such discrimination in AoC; they're either large or quite large, your choice.

[babanathie]

Well, AoC openned with just under a million sales and dropped to 200k subscriptions (per third party estimates) within three months. It strikes me as another example of incomplete (or rather poorly designed) gameplay with a bad public relations department. Sure, the PR department may have gotten them the million sales, but on the same note, the PR within the game framework was lacking (very much like SWG's situation).

While AoC attempted to be innovative in their gameplay (and were depending on who you talked to), there were serious issues in game balance that weren't resolved (may still be unresolved, I quit and due to similar unethical practices seen in SWG; I never looked back) until after the game was released. If you have to do a complete overhaul of a system (crafting for AoC) after release, then your initial game design was obviously flawed at the start. In my opinion, that is a company's failure to its community of players. There were other issues for the game too. The community was horrible and immature especially on the forums. GMs (well at least one) was caught cybersexing with a player. Class balance was like SWG; non-existent and swung between class update to update. GMs refused to enforce rules posted by the development team. GMs enforced rules not posted by the development team and were disruptive to class design. And so many others...

[Rivaris]

aoc can probarly survive and keep the sups they have left if they have finaly changed some stuff.
but i dont see them climb back up and get 300k+ subs again ever.

havent looked at the game since i played it for a few hours at a friends place and alraedy toucht it was a epic incomplete failed game. it could have been good if they pushed release way back and finished the major parts of the game.

i render if pushed back the release date and finshed the game they would have sold more then a mil copies.
because i render 90% of the beta players didnt even buy the release game seeing how bad it was on release.

[Hagon]

I can't really speak personally of why it had such a dismal drop so quickly after release. I followed the game in development, pre-ordered the game and began to play it, but I didn't even make it into Tortage before a RL crisis came up and I stopped playing. By the time I had time to play again everyone was telling me not to bother.

From what most say it simply wasn't ready for release. It had too many bugs, not enough content, and terribly thought out itemization.

I do know from following it when it was in development that they made the same mistake as SWG, WAR, and some others. They thought that the "community" following the development on their forums reflected the "community" they'd have coming to try the game at release.

The AoC forums pre-release were primarily filled with two types of people. RPers (as is always the case for a mmo in development. They go from game to game as it's being built spouting the same old falsehoods) and rather hardcore PvPers. The anomaly of AoC was that the two actually meshed that time. Most of the RPers said that for the game to be "real" and "accurate" to RP in properly, it had to be FFA PvP. Of course the hardcore PvPers wanted that as well. Well they got what they wanted. Poor misguided things. This in a game that could have been perfect for a faction vs faction based conflict system.

They also cried out for items to have little to no bearing on things, and didn't properly test and balance the classes.

So all these things combined (lack of content, more bugs than one would usually expect in a new mmo, poor itemization, unbalanced classes, and conflict with no meaning to it) just hit everyone in the face when they were playing that first while, and most left.

I am playing it now though, and enjoying it a great deal. They've made a lot of changes and so far they seem to be going in the right direction. They've fixed most of the bugs, added a lot of content, are starting to re-work the classes and are making items mean something.

[babanathie]

I do know from following it when it was in development that they made the same mistake as SWG, WAR, and some others. They thought that the "community" following the development on their forums reflected the "community" they'd have coming to try the game at release.

The AoC forums pre-release were primarily filled with two types of people. RPers (as is always the case for a mmo in development. They go from game to game as it's being built spouting the same old falsehoods) and rather hardcore PvPers. The anomaly of AoC was that the two actually meshed that time. Most of the RPers said that for the game to be "real" and "accurate" to RP in properly, it had to be FFA PvP. Of course the hardcore PvPers wanted that as well. Well they got what they wanted. Poor misguided things. This in a game that could have been perfect for a faction vs faction based conflict system.


I deleted what I agreed with. I don't think Funcom necessarily followed its community's wishes. That is definitely not the impression I got from them. I think Funcom cultivated a community that it wanted to cater too, and ultimately they didn't do a damn thing they didn't want to (except maybe putting a piece of crap out there for a million people to play). The game from the get go was suppose to be hardcore PvP. That is what the game was designed to be, and that is one reason that it had some limits on content (you don't need as much PvE content for what was expected to be a PvP game).

FFA PvP was in keeping with the flavor of the IP setting (which is based on original Conan novels as opposed to the watered down movies). RPers got what the game world should have had in keeping with the IP, and I think once the developers realised that, they really ran with it. They ran with it so hard they got a million sales.

I do believe that WoW's days of absolute supermacy are numbered. The one thing AoC did illustrate was that there are a large number of WoW players waiting to try the next new shiny toy on the shelf. It's just a matter of when a company gets its head out of its a*s to but together a game that has a recognizable IP and has good gameplay.

PS - As for faction vs faction, they could have put it in, but it probably would not have worked in the frameworks of the IP.

[Buri]

The community was horrible and immature especially on the forums. .

I couldn't agree more.. for a game that was rated mature, it was anything but that in the community. I played on a PvP server from launch day to about the 6-month mark, and while I did like many aspects of the game, I gave it up. Here is a little bit of satire I wrote a while back, but never posted it on the forums, because it would have just been "feeding the trolls":



================================================== =================================
HOW TO BE AN ****** IN AGE OF CONAN

It's come to my attention that there are some poor souls out there that don't know how to behave on PvP servers in the MMO Age of Conan. In order to help facilitate the assimilation of people who may want to fit in with the average players, here are some simple rules to follow:

1) Combat; Avoid fair battles at all costs. Cowardice and cheating work much better. Here are some guidelines:
a. Always kill anyone 10 or more levels lower than you, that way you can rack up a lot of kills and brag about the huge accomplishment.
b. Always kill anyone talking to a Quest NPC.
c. Always kill anyone dealing at a merchant.
d. When you see someone fighting a mob, wait until the battle is almost over, when they're at 10-30% HP and have used up all their good moves, for an easy kill.
e. Always kill a solo person when you have a group with you, at least 3 vs 1 is a sure kill.
f. If you get bored, you can always kill the same person over and over again to see how long it takes them to change instances, then call them stupid.
If anyone gets upset at any of this, just tell them you're role-playing a Homocidal Maniac. You have no back story, but who cares, that's just for RPers anyway.

2) Chat channels; Talk as much as you possibly can so everyone can get to know you. Vulgarity is recommended, because that's the only way to prove how mature you are. If you don't know what to say, every statement can be answered by one of the following helpful phrases:
a. You're Gay
b. ___Your mother___ (fill in the blanks)
c. Go back to WoW
d. Epic Fail
e. Go play on a PVE server (especially if you've just killed them)

If you can't find anything else to talk about, politics or religion are always welcome in a game full of escapists. You could also talk about how other games are better, or how bad AoC is, while you continue to play it.
If you get ganked yourself, be sure and whine about it in your public channel of choice. Surely there's someone out there who cares.
By all means, gloat in OOC or regional channels when you kill someone 6 on 1, or when you are 20 levels above them, because they obviously suck if they can't handle that. After all, how else is anyone going to know how uber you are?

[Hagon]

I deleted what I agreed with. I don't think Funcom necessarily followed its community's wishes. That is definitely not the impression I got from them. I think Funcom cultivated a community that it wanted to cater too, and ultimately they didn't do a damn thing they didn't want to (except maybe putting a piece of crap out there for a million people to play). The game from the get go was suppose to be hardcore PvP. That is what the game was designed to be, and that is one reason that it had some limits on content (you don't need as much PvE content for what was expected to be a PvP game).

FFA PvP was in keeping with the flavor of the IP setting (which is based on original Conan novels as opposed to the watered down movies). RPers got what the game world should have had in keeping with the IP, and I think once the developers realised that, they really ran with it. They ran with it so hard they got a million sales.

I do believe that WoW's days of absolute supermacy are numbered. The one thing AoC did illustrate was that there are a large number of WoW players waiting to try the next new shiny toy on the shelf. It's just a matter of when a company gets its head out of its a*s to but together a game that has a recognizable IP and has good gameplay.

PS - As for faction vs faction, they could have put it in, but it probably would not have worked in the frameworks of the IP.No, the game wasn't originally going to be a "hardcore PvP" game.

In fact, the game was originally going to be a "casual friendly game" (G.G. made a lot of noise about that in the first few months, then a new lead designer was hired and the tone from Funcom quickly began to change), with PvP only possible in the border regions, and then only during set times in instanced encounters. Essentially what it is on the regular servers now. They originally said that there'd be no need for separate PvP and PvE servers, but that they would offer RP servers. Though those RP servers would have the same rules applied as the rest.

That set the RPers off because, as I alluded to before, they believed that to be accurate to the Hyborian world Robert E. Howard had created players needed to be able to attack other players pretty much anywhere, any time. Then of course the hardcore PvPers started sniffing around when word started to spread about the unique combat system, and they wanted the same thing as well.

They originally talked a lot about all the cool ideas they had for itemization, but the noise on the forums at the time was that people didn't want items/gear to matter. Big mistake. One of the biggest complaints after the lack of content, bugs, and class issues, was that items and gear didn't matter. The crafters were mad that no one needed what they made, and the people doing raids were mad because at first there wasn't any items/gear dropping of of the end game bosses at all, and then when they finally did put those drops in, people saw that fighting fully decked out and fighting pretty much nekkid made little difference.

They thought they would be ok releasing the game without the content fully flushed out because, again, they listened to their forum and the talking heads on their forums were telling them most people that would come to play AOC would be "Conan fans and fans of R.E.H>" and they would be satisfied with just having the world R.E.H had created to exist and RP in.

Yup listening to their pre-release forum community worked out for them alright. :rolleyes:

The game got a million sales from advertising a new combat system (which is actually pretty darn good), large scale siege based PvP (which they've still not been able to deliver), beautiful graphics (It is definitely the best looking MMO on the market to date), and lots and lots of blood & boobies.

It had nothing at all to do with how accurate they were to the world R.E.H. created for Conan. Ask anyone that played the game at release (there a few in our fleet you can ask if you'd like) and they'll tell you that they hardly (if ever) ran into anyone that knew anything at all about Conan besides those that had seen the Arnie movies.

[babanathie]

No, the game wasn't originally going to be a "hardcore PvP" game.

In fact, the game was originally going to be a "casual friendly game" (G.G. made a lot of noise about that in the first few months, then a new lead designer was hired and the tone from Funcom quickly began to change), with PvP only possible in the border regions, and then only during set times in instanced encounters. Essentially what it is on the regular servers now. They originally said that there'd be no need for separate PvP and PvE servers, but that they would offer RP servers. Though those RP servers would have the same rules applied as the rest.

That set the RPers off because, as I alluded to before, they believed that to be accurate to the Hyborian world Robert E. Howard had created players needed to be able to attack other players pretty much anywhere, any time. Then of course the hardcore PvPers started sniffing around when word started to spread about the unique combat system, and they wanted the same thing as well.

They originally talked a lot about all the cool ideas they had for itemization, but the noise on the forums at the time was that people didn't want items/gear to matter. Big mistake. One of the biggest complaints after the lack of content, bugs, and class issues, was that items and gear didn't matter. The crafters were mad that no one needed what they made, and the people doing raids were mad because at first there wasn't any items/gear dropping of of the end game bosses at all, and then when they finally did put those drops in, people saw that fighting fully decked out and fighting pretty much nekkid made little difference.

They thought they would be ok releasing the game without the content fully flushed out because, again, they listened to their forum and the talking heads on their forums were telling them most people that would come to play AOC would be "Conan fans and fans of R.E.H>" and they would be satisfied with just having the world R.E.H had created to exist and RP in.

Yup listening to their pre-release forum community worked out for them alright. :rolleyes:

The game got a million sales from advertising a new combat system (which is actually pretty darn good), large scale siege based PvP (which they've still not been able to deliver), beautiful graphics (It is definitely the best looking MMO on the market to date), and lots and lots of blood & boobies.

It had nothing at all to do with how accurate they were to the world R.E.H. created for Conan. Ask anyone that played the game at release (there a few in our fleet you can ask if you'd like) and they'll tell you that they hardly (if ever) ran into anyone that knew anything at all about Conan besides those that had seen the Arnie movies.

Yeah, whatever. That's why they took out gems and took 5% resist gems and changed them to 0.7% resist because items had no meaning and didn't break gameplay in the developer's mind. If you're reading sarcasm there, you're a smart a cookie.

You're right about the graphics and gameplay though. Sieges were fun but bugged. However, I didn't stick around to see if those ever got fixed. I played on an RP server and knew plenty of people that knew the lore, and since I played the game at release, you now know someone that knew about the original Conan not related to the movies.

[Hagon]

Yeah, whatever. That's why they took out gems and took 5% resist gems and changed them to 0.7% resist because items had no meaning and didn't break gameplay in the developer's mind. If you're reading sarcasm there, you're a smart a cookie.

You're right about the graphics and gameplay though. Sieges were fun but bugged. However, I didn't stick around to see if those ever got fixed. I played on an RP server and knew plenty of people that knew the lore, and since I played the game at release, you now know someone that knew about the original Conan not related to the movies.Ya.... I've read every single Conan book and comic that's ever been put out. I read my first Conan related comic after sneaking it out of my older brothers room back in 1972, Conan The Usurper is the earliest "grown up" book I remember reading. I know Conan, and I was there on the forums pretty much the first day they went up. I knew quite a few that knew their Conan and R.E.H., and still know them as a matter of fact, since many became online friends through our association on the forums and our shared love of R.E.H.'s works and characters. They'll tell you the same thing I'm telling you. Most people that played the game at release, and that are playing it now, by a huge margin, know nothing to very very little about Conan.

As for the itemization issue, you can go ahead and read the recent letters from the game director where he talks on that subject and explains the mistakes that were made.

Then you can just PM me an apology. You don't need to do it publicity.

[babanathie]

Ya.... I've read every single Conan book and comic that's ever been put out. I read my first Conan related comic after sneaking it out of my older brothers room back in 1972, Conan The Usurper is the earliest "grown up" book I remember reading. I know Conan, and I was there on the forums pretty much the first day they went up. I knew quite a few that knew their Conan and R.E.H., and still know them as a matter of fact, since many became online friends through our association on the forums and our shared love of R.E.H.'s works and characters. They'll tell you the same thing I'm telling you. Most people that played the game at release, and that are playing it now, by a huge margin, know nothing to very very little about Conan.

And that's unexpected how? Actually, how is that even related to the topic at hand?

[Hagon]

And that's unexpected how? Actually, how is that even related to the topic at hand?

Well it was you that said this isn't it?



FFA PvP was in keeping with the flavor of the IP setting (which is based on original Conan novels as opposed to the watered down movies). RPers got what the game world should have had in keeping with the IP, and I think once the developers realised that, they really ran with it. They ran with it so hard they got a million sales. That says to me that you believe that it was Funcom's accuracy (which is pretty debatable anyway) to the Hyborian world of R.E.H. that was a major reason the game sold over a million copies.

PS - As for faction vs faction, they could have put it in, but it probably would not have worked in the frameworks of the IP.Have you ever actually read any Conan works?

In pretty much every single one there are major conflicts going on between one nation or the other, and in many of the stories Conan himself is fighting for one or the other, and eventually comes to take the throne of one of them. The Hyborian world that R.E.H. created is almost like it's custom made for a FvF based MMO.

[babanathie]

Well it was you that said this isn't it?

That says to me that you believe that it was Funcom's accuracy (which is pretty debatable anyway) to the Hyborian world of R.E.H. that was a major reason the game sold over a million copies.

Have you ever actually read any Conan works?

In pretty much every single one there are major conflicts going on between one nation or the other, and in many of the stories Conan himself is fighting for one or the other, and eventually comes to take the throne of one of them. The Hyborian world that R.E.H. created is almost like it's custom made for a FvF based MMO.

Point one was an side note. You didn't address the actual point that was at least somewhat relevant to the topic. I'll leave it to you find it; since, you have in the past demostrated a great deal of intelligence in choice of words.

Point two: Never said that Funcom's vision of R.E.H's work was the reason for its initial success. If you read that in my post... Well, you got the point.

Point three: Yes, however, the original work was based on numerous small nations that vie for power and some cultural groups that are (at least in Funcom's estimation) interesting as playable races would be left out in the cold in that set up. For example, Cimmerians were primarily mercenaries (best case scenario - absolutely not involved worst case scenario) when it came to "your" faction versus faction setup (if based on the original works). That is what I base my opinion on in regards to faction versus faction. Their aren't clear dividing lines in the world of Conan, the people in power were too shifty to stay within a faction to make RvR (or if you prefer FvF) viable without making things too complicated in a political sense.

[lordoffiling]

I tried the Age of Conan trial when it came out a couple months ago. This thread, believe it or not, is aimed at me and people like me.

For my part, the simple fact is that the game simply failed to sieze my attention. I tried it, I made a few characters, I went through the first ten levels or so, and the end result was that the game had failed to provide me with anything I couldn't get anywhere else. It was good, but not good enough to get me to drop sixty bucks on the box and fifteen a month on the sub.

Short and sweet. Tried it, liked it okay, wasn't thrilled enough to buy. I'd imagine many are in the same boat as me.

[Ikec]

Conan failed for a few reasons. Too linear. If I wanted to explore the world, well.... I really couldn't. Too much instancing, just like DDO. Lack of class balance. When one class can fight 3 people and not even come close to dieing then I'd say there's a problem. That's three different people with three different classes.

[babanathie]

Conan failed for a few reasons. Too linear. If I wanted to explore the world, well.... I really couldn't. Too much instancing, just like DDO. Lack of class balance. When one class can fight 3 people and not even come close to dieing then I'd say there's a problem. That's three different people with three different classes.

Yeah, I remember a fight once where a Tempest giving 2 or 3 levels against a band of three players wiped the "good" guys (four guys if you count my stealth shots - I hid after the first few seconds of the fight). The Tempest was the bad guy since he was ganking lowbies. It was an unbelieveable lopsided fight that I never really understood. The guy was taking out three higher level characters without breaking a sweat, and he was wasting his time on low level characters.

AoC had many issues. The one that did it for me though was their customer service. I remembered my SWG days, and once certain CS practices became evident, I left the game and never looked back.

[Ricosuave]

Like any MMo's you may like the game or not. I still play AoC and from the Bugged start to now, is been improving. Not as fast like some want to, but is improving. You may not like the game and now are in pain because you wasted money on it. Just remember Funcom did't make you buy the game.

I can Believe i'm feeding the trolls...