Federation Advantages over cloaked ships

[gerheffernan04]

Apologies if this has already been asked, but does anyone know what advantages federation ships will have over cloaked klingon vessels with regard to stealth rather than detection. For example, how would one board a ship if they can see you coming as they would just raise their shields.
I would like to see support craft that are undetectable or known blind spots in certain classes of ships, that way one could launch a shuttle loaded with a strike team from outside of enemy sensor Range and gain access to their ship or more interestingly steal their supplies and get away undetected.

[Tamgros]

You won't have access to shuttles like that. I like your outside the box thinking, but it's just not feasible to implement every tactic that everyone would want to do. You're just going to have to work with the system they give us. As of now that means no shuttle flying (although there is a Klingon Carrier class), and no ship boarding (at least in PvP).

Klingons are notorious for poor firing arcs though. Most of their ships have to be pointed right at something in order for it to be able to be targeted. They also have poor reverse shielding. These things have been hinted as possible solutions to cloak, but it's unclear at this point that the federation won't have cloak. There have been hints that some fed ships will have cloak as well.

[perfect_nosferatu]

three words: Tachyon Detection Grid

and eight more: The thing's got to have a tailpipe!

[knightofhyrule730]

we don't know anything about cloak. for all we know cloak could be easily detectable by players if they use a certian configuration.

[overlordthor]

we don't know anything about cloak. for all we know cloak could be easily detectable by players if they use a certian configuration.

I think it'll come down to them being semi-detectable at close range. But it would be terrible if there was no way for them to sneak up on most ships. Some ships have superior cloaking devices as well, some have "perfect" cloaks, some are imperfect.

Anyway, advantages of the Federation, well, as said above, Federation shields and weapons are more balanced, while still packing a good forward punch, they can fire on all sides, shields are evenly powered on all sides. Some anti-cloak technology, semi-effective at close range, and well, once they know a ship is in the area and seen it once, its easier to detect knowing what it is and what to look for, but still not perfect. Spacial detonation of torpedoes as well help.

[Suiko]

I'm curious about what the federation will be able to do against this... mostly for pvp wise, it's a huge advantage with being able to cloak and I'm sure Klingons will have some pretty strong weaponary.

[Robosham]

Tachyon Detection Is one way of detecting a Romulian Cloaked ship.

Klingon ships use an entirely different type of cloak; at warp you can detect them, but if not in warp they are almost imposable to detect.

Remember they cant fire Cloaked , or Have shelds up in Cloak.
Cloak would not be used as a offensive tactic , but a defensive one. It takes akmost 5-10 seconds to Cloak there shileds are down during this time. If can get a Shot in to disable the Cloaking device or Warp core damaging the warp core will decrease power to the ship Making the cloak less affictive. When coming out of cloak there sheilds are down for 5-10 seconds. Phasers are pin point acuracey. A good polit and tactical officer is all need.

The Cloak then all I see would be for Upclose recon Thats it. :rolleyes:
Cloak in Star Trek isn’t a on and off thing. You hit cloak and disappear in a instance. It takes 5-10 Seconds to Cloak. From a PvP perspective as a federation ship I would have shields up at all times innless for some reason like maintenance or Diplomacy they would be down. Your not going to destroy any federation ship in a Offensive volley with there shields up Even older starships .:o

[knightofhyrule730]

Tachyon Detection Is one way of detecting a Romulian Cloaked ship.

Klingon ships use an entirely different type of cloak; at warp you can detect them, but if not in warp they are almost imposable to detect.

Remember they cant fire Cloaked , or Have shelds up in Cloak.
Cloak would not be used as a offensive tactic , but a defensive one. It takes akmost 5-10 seconds to Cloak there shileds are down during this time. If can get a Shot in to disable the Cloaking device or Warp core damaging the warp core will decrease power to the ship Making the cloak less affictive. When coming out of cloak there sheilds are down for 5-10 seconds. Phasers are pin point acuracey. A good polit and tactical officer is all need.

The Cloak then all I see would be for Upclose recon Thats it. :rolleyes:
Cloak in Star Trek isn’t a on and off thing. You hit cloak and disappear in a instance. It takes 5-10 Seconds to Cloak. From a PvP perspective as a federation ship I would have shields up at all times innless for some reason like maintenance or Diplomacy they would be down. Your not going to destroy any federation ship in a Offensive volley with there shields up Even older starships .:o

all this is old information. its been 30 years. both cloak and counter-cloak have probably improved.

Because this is a game, and it does need balance, i highly doubt you will see super undetectable ships. feds will definitely be able to pick out cloaked ships by setting their deflectors and sensors a certain way. however, like i said balance, by doing this, they may be required to have weaker firepower and shields to power the improved sensor/deflector systems.

[Beaver8]

My cloak is perfect, I could fly to within 10km of any federation ship and they would have no idea I was there.

[knightofhyrule730]

My cloak is perfect, I could fly to within 10km of any federation ship and they would have no idea I was there.

uh huh. i see you there. you probably should put on pants....

[ransomwk]

all this is old information. its been 30 years. both cloak and counter-cloak have probably improved.

Because this is a game, and it does need balance, i highly doubt you will see super undetectable ships. feds will definitely be able to pick out cloaked ships by setting their deflectors and sensors a certain way. however, like i said balance, by doing this, they may be required to have weaker firepower and shields to power the improved sensor/deflector systems.

Maybe they could somehow emulate the cloak/sensor battle? Say for a period of maybe two weeks, cloaked ships are impossible to detect, then new sensors develop and cloaks are useless for the next two weeks. Rinse and repeat.

[Robosham]

all this is old information. its been 30 years. both cloak and counter-cloak have probably improved.

Because this is a game, and it does need balance, i highly doubt you will see super undetectable ships. feds will definitely be able to pick out cloaked ships by setting their deflectors and sensors a certain way. however, like i said balance, by doing this, they may be required to have weaker firepower and shields to power the improved sensor/deflector systems.

How is this Old? What has chnanged?

The ship your going to staart out with will be a class 30 years or older:)

" I am a Deltian no pants required":D

[Beaver8]

Maybe they could somehow emulate the cloak/sensor battle? Say for a period of maybe two weeks, cloaked ships are impossible to detect, then new sensors develop and cloaks are useless for the next two weeks. Rinse and repeat.

Then there will always be someone more powerful than the other. Would be a lot of people complaining how they are only worth a darn every two weeks.

EDIT: And I don't wear pants because my mighty python needs to breathe.

[knightofhyrule730]

How is this Old? What has chnanged?

The ship your going to staart out with will be a class 30 years or older:)

" I am a Deltian no pants required":D

well first of all, weve seen the Scimitar, which could fire cloaked. secondly, again, its been 30 years, the time it takes to decloak could have gotten longer, it could have gotten shorter. Etc. we just dont know until we get the game in our hands, or we see some gameplay videos.

[Reinkaos]

well first of all, weve seen the Scimitar, which could fire cloaked. secondly, again, its been 30 years, the time it takes to decloak could have gotten longer, it could have gotten shorter. Etc. we just dont know until we get the game in our hands, or we see some gameplay videos.

I would think yoru crew's skill level with regards to cloaking (or perhaps a trainable skill), and also the amount of power and engineering finesse you have would makes the best sense to affect how long it takes to decloak and get your shields up, or recloak.

[ransomwk]

Then there will always be someone more powerful than the other. Would be a lot of people complaining how they are only worth a darn every two weeks.

EDIT: And I don't wear pants because my mighty python needs to breathe.

and? there's always someone bigger, better, badder, faster, stronger, more powerful.....

it doesn't have to be black and white, ultimate cloak then ultimate sensor....just weighted in favor of one or the other, then back again, cycling based on the actions of the players.

[Robosham]

Affiliation: Reman
Type: Warbird
Active: 2379 (destroyed)
Length: 890 meters
Beam: 1350 meters
Speed: At least Warp 9.7
Armament: 52 pulse disruptor cannons;
27 photon torpedo launchers;
thalaron radiation emitters
Defenses: Primary and secondary shields;
advanced cloaking device
It emitted no tachyons and left no residual anti-protons, the two ways that a cloaked ship could be tracked and located. Thus, when cloaked, the Scimitar was virtually impossible to find. Only a chance hit by an opposing ship's weapons could reveal its location, temporarily disrupting the cloak. The Scimitar could even deploy its weapons and deflector shields and travel at high warp speeds while cloaked, actions which, with less-advanced cloaking technology, necessitated de-cloaking or reduced the effectiveness of cloaking. Its maximum warp factor when cloaked matched that of Starfleet's Sovereign-class starship.


There was only one of these, I Highley dout we will see one of these right off might be a year into the Game , before this ship is introduced.

It was also equipped with a powerful thalaron radiation weapon, capable of stripping the life off a planet in a matter of seconds.
I dont think that this will be a Player Ship. This might be a NPC controlled in Instance mission. Not apart of reguler Play. :o

[Ruzzell]

Without the power of the Romulan military, why does the treay remain in effect. Basically there is no reason for the Federation to continue to honor Romulan treaties.

[Robosham]

Very True ,

Does any one Know the Current Status on the Klingon treaty regarding Cloaking?

The Defiant could use the Cloaking Device because even though it was command by StarFleet , Sisco gave it to the Bajor(Not Officaly apart of the Federation Yet), The Kilgons Agreed , But I dont know if thats Accurate?:o

[Robosham]

A special amendment to the Treaty of Algeron allowed the Defiant to be fitted with a Romulan cloaking device. (DS9: "The Search, Part I", "Defiant") The Romulans loaned and allowed the limited supervised use of at least one cloaking device. Operation of the cloaking device was to be limited to the Gamma Quadrant. In return, the Federation would provide the Romulans any and all intelligence collected in the Gamma Quadrant and about the Dominion. Though expressing dissatisfaction with intelligence brought back by the Defiant, the Romulans apparently allowed the cloaking device to remain on the vessel even after they discontinued supervision. (DS9: "The Search, Part I", "Visionary"). The Defiant was the only Federation vessel to be seen regularly operating a cloaking device.

Although Captain Benjamin Sisko knew that the cloaking device shouldn't be used in the Alpha Quadrant he cloaked the Defiant in a rescue mission for the Detapa Council in 2372. The Defiant was unable to perform scans for life signs when the cloaking device was in use. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior")
:cool:

[knightofhyrule730]

A special amendment to the Treaty of Algeron allowed the Defiant to be fitted with a Romulan cloaking device. (DS9: "The Search, Part I", "Defiant") The Romulans loaned and allowed the limited supervised use of at least one cloaking device. Operation of the cloaking device was to be limited to the Gamma Quadrant. In return, the Federation would provide the Romulans any and all intelligence collected in the Gamma Quadrant and about the Dominion. Though expressing dissatisfaction with intelligence brought back by the Defiant, the Romulans apparently allowed the cloaking device to remain on the vessel even after they discontinued supervision. (DS9: "The Search, Part I", "Visionary"). The Defiant was the only Federation vessel to be seen regularly operating a cloaking device.

Although Captain Benjamin Sisko knew that the cloaking device shouldn't be used in the Alpha Quadrant he cloaked the Defiant in a rescue mission for the Detapa Council in 2372. The Defiant was unable to perform scans for life signs when the cloaking device was in use. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior")
:cool:

huh. interesting. i always thought it was with the klingons that they had the agreement with. Well, since Romulus is dead, im thinking...yeah. Federation cloak 100% positive. For every ship? possible. Maybe an upgrade you can select at a reduced weapon/shield/power yield? ooooo

[Colm]

The main advantage is that fed ships look way better. :D

[Robosham]

Federation holoship; Used in the movie "Inserction"
Legal Federation Cloaked Ship
I agree Someone Made a Comment I forgot who Sayed that Transprts and non battle vessesls should be cloaked! ;)

[Condemnation]

Stand the problem on its head.

I posted this elsewhere, but forget making sensors detect cloaked vessels while the craft is at impulse. Just make a difference between active and passive scanning. Allow a federation ship to "go dark" so to speak, which would basically limit almost all its emissions and render it invisible to a "passive scan"

Make cloaked vessels only be able to passively scan and remain cloaked. If they actively scan a system, they would be detectable and target able by anyone. Make it more like a hunter / hunted sort of sub combat.

Passive Scanning on the side of the Fed ship would basically make you invisible to the cloaked ship who should also be passively scanning if he wants to remain hidden. You could even go so far as to have them send out sensor pings to find each other. It could bring a very tactical aspect to cloaked vs uncloaked ships. In this way, in order to maintain undetected, a cloaked ship would have to visually find the fed ship in any given system, and then lock weapons manually which should take an extra few seconds. Computer locks should be near instant.

[Sumdian]

It will be very interesting to see how they do this will fed ships now there is a clocked ship around or will they not be able to detect them at all

[Rosebud]

three words: Tachyon Detection Grid

and eight more: The thing's got to have a tailpipe!

... That's only seven words. :p

But yeah, I am sure that there will be countermeasures and counter-countermeasures.

Cloaking may just reset all your timers, so when you turn it off there will be a delay before you could do anything.

[dinendae]

Klingons are notorious for poor firing arcs though. Most of their ships have to be pointed right at something in order for it to be able to be targeted.

In which game? The ones I am familiar with generally have the Feds with the worst firing arcs.

[overlordthor]

In which game? The ones I am familiar with generally have the Feds with the worst firing arcs.

SFC series of games definitely has the federation with the good firing arcs, but not the heaviest forward firepower if thats what your into, some ships have torpedoes in tight angles, but phasers abundant on all sides.

Klingons, heavy forward firing arcs, rear lacking.

[Katana]

Maybe they could somehow emulate the cloak/sensor battle? Say for a period of maybe two weeks, cloaked ships are impossible to detect, then new sensors develop and cloaks are useless for the next two weeks. Rinse and repeat.

Sir, you must be mad. you wanna create havoc every other 2 weeks for federation? :O
thats just mad. and having a perfect cloaked ship is not possible in a game i think and it shouldnt. unless as someo1 suggested its for recon ops. otherwise its impossible to play vs them.
you have to think in packs too u know, what if ur surrounded by a few itchy finger guys and they play a tune on you. cloak/de-cloak/ fire on you from x sides. you will be a sitting duck, sir! :O

[J.L.Picard]

Federation will have cloaks, the Romulans are gone,

[gerheffernan04]

Doesn't the Khitomer accords have a condition that the federation cannot develop cloaking technology, or is it the Romulan non-agression pact only? or both?

[gerheffernan04]

Very True ,

Does any one Know the Current Status on the Klingon treaty regarding Cloaking?

The Defiant could use the Cloaking Device because even though it was command by StarFleet , Sisco gave it to the Bajor(Not Officaly apart of the Federation Yet), The Kilgons Agreed , But I dont know if thats Accurate?:o
it was actually given by the romulans under the condition that it only be used in the gamma quadrant

[gerheffernan04]

Stand the problem on its head.

I posted this elsewhere, but forget making sensors detect cloaked vessels while the craft is at impulse. Just make a difference between active and passive scanning. Allow a federation ship to "go dark" so to speak, which would basically limit almost all its emissions and render it invisible to a "passive scan"

Make cloaked vessels only be able to passively scan and remain cloaked. If they actively scan a system, they would be detectable and target able by anyone. Make it more like a hunter / hunted sort of sub combat.

Passive Scanning on the side of the Fed ship would basically make you invisible to the cloaked ship who should also be passively scanning if he wants to remain hidden. You could even go so far as to have them send out sensor pings to find each other. It could bring a very tactical aspect to cloaked vs uncloaked ships. In this way, in order to maintain undetected, a cloaked ship would have to visually find the fed ship in any given system, and then lock weapons manually which should take an extra few seconds. Computer locks should be near instant.
this could possibly be Passive equals long range, as in you have to right on top of a cloaked ship, i.e in the same spatial grid, to detect them

[gerheffernan04]

Federation will have cloaks, the Romulans are gone,
Remember, the federation is trying to broker talks with the remants of the romulan empire, throwing the treaty of Algeron out the window would send a bad message and quite possibly provoke the Romulans into going quiet again

[thefreshjedi]

My biggest hope is that they are going to be True to Trek: I would like to be able to hide my ship signature around or behind a planet or moon, or use a nearby anomoly to disguise myself, or find a nebula that I could hide in which will give me time to repair or to sneak up on my enemy. Or even the ability to run my ship through an asteroid belt to either lose an enemy or to give myself an advantage. I would love to be in a BoP in cloak hiding behind a large asteroid, or even in a smaller Fed ship like a Miranda, only to rise up over the asteroid, fire a couple of crippline shots and then sneak back behind the asteroid for cover.

Stuff like that.

There are so many little tactics that you can use in space, it's sick, but the real question is, how far will Cryptic take the engine, and will they incorporate those types of elements?


-avery

[xarb]

Oh no, Cloaking Devices. Whence, Cry, curse the gods..

Relax its a game
Usually Cloaking Devices eat energy, and quite frankly are a tactically used for surprise attacks, and moving undetected. Running about having a fit over what if's solves nothing. Im sure the developers are rational beings that already have a nice way of balancing this out, and will tweak things as needed if cloaking becomes the Flavor of the week.

In cannon, Star Fleet had really nice shield technology, and multiple redundant systems , if anything I'm sure advanced damage control will allow Federation Players ships to take a bigger beating on critical systems or some other game balancing effect, that in the end evens the playing field.

[Azurian]

Doesn't the Khitomer accords have a condition that the federation cannot develop cloaking technology, or is it the Romulan non-agression pact only? or both?

That's the Treaty of Algeron.

The Khitomer Accords was a peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

[gerheffernan04]

Oh no, Cloaking Devices. Whence, Cry, curse the gods..

Relax its a game
Usually Cloaking Devices eat energy, and quite frankly are a tactically used for surprise attacks, and moving undetected. Running about having a fit over what if's solves nothing. Im sure the developers are rational beings that already have a nice way of balancing this out, and will tweak things as needed if cloaking becomes the Flavor of the week.

In cannon, Star Fleet had really nice shield technology, and multiple redundant systems , if anything I'm sure advanced damage control will allow Federation Players ships to take a bigger beating on critical systems or some other game balancing effect, that in the end evens the playing field.
Sure thing smarty pants thanks for the advice