View Full Version : Klingon Bird-of-Prey
will these feature in STO?
I ask because in the Dominion War they appear to be increasingly old fashioned, relying on numbers on to accomplish their goals. since STO takes place decades later- will the BoPs still be around or will there be a new type of BoP- that is more advanced.
Tamgros
05-15-2009, 03:06 PM
They would obviously have to be upgraded, but vessel with a similar design seems probable. So yeah, I'm betting they are going to be much more advanced.
Klingons wouldn't sit idle for 40 years, that's against our nature :p
seeing as the basic design is 90 years old at the time of the Dominion Wars- it would be like 120 years+ by the time of STO.
in the 22nd century the Klingons had a different type of BoP.
so Im thinking the current BoP is the successor to that.
but after the Dominion War the Klingons decide to build a new BoP type ship.
so in STO they should introduce a new type of BoP- not keep reusing the old one.
Gatness
05-15-2009, 03:19 PM
Considering you can have a miranda looking like it always did I wouldn't be surprised if you could have a BoP looking like we know and love as well as all those other options cryptic is promising to have a newer look. I know I'm staying in one as long as I can make it workable for missions myself.
Beaver8
05-15-2009, 03:23 PM
Some people really want to have that old one though. I know that I do. I hope there will be a higher tier refit of a bird of prey that has updated tech.
Much like how fed people want to have a constitution class in the game and it be decent. Lots of klingons want the bird of prey.
The BOP is such a staple of the klingons though that they wouldn't beable to do away with it. It has got to be in the game in some form.
laladiel
05-15-2009, 03:34 PM
im thinking of corse, they have been around since what, enterprise era? their a mainstay for the klingon fleet because they can be mass produced rather quickly and shipped out on a moments notice.
well the raptor (upgraded version) is in game and that was the first/oldest klingon ship encountered by earth so if an upgraded BoP wasn't in game i would be very surprised
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 04:18 PM
I thought both the B'rel and the K'vort were in the dominion wars, the difference being the size of the ship.
That's been the explanation of why bird of preys have sizes vary, larger K'vort, and smaller B'rel, both the larger and smaller were in DS9.
well if you retain the same model that limits you to the current armament of the BoP which is 2 torpedo single fire launchers (1 for 1 aft) and 2 forward disruptor cannons.
thats the main problem with the B'rel & K'vort. exact same model- different size but same armament. (a ship the size of the K'vort would be much better armed)
I would imagine in the STO era - 2 torpedo tubes & 2 disruptors isnt packing much heat
LordDave
05-15-2009, 04:25 PM
ahem...
https://ice-tray.net/gallery/albums/images/star%20trek%20online/star-trek-online-20090206053216210.jpg
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 04:27 PM
well if you retain the same model that limits you to the current armament of the BoP which is 2 torpedo single fire launchers (1 for 1 aft) and 2 forward disruptor cannons.
thats the main problem with the B'rel & K'vort. exact same model- different size but same armament. (a ship the size of the K'vort would be much better armed)
I would imagine in the STO era - 2 torpedo tubes & 2 disruptors isnt packing much heat
Different size photons and disrupters so each pack more firepower. in a K'vort, systems have more space and can be more powerful, computers, sensors and weapons. B'rel, smaller, easier to produce, and still pack a good punch, speeds, maybe the B'rel is faster, and/or more maneuverable. Fewer weapons, and more dedicated to each of them.
Gatness
05-15-2009, 04:27 PM
Nice 404 error dave. :p
Different size photons and disrupters so each pack more firepower. in a K'vort, systems have more space and can be more powerful, computers, sensors and weapons. B'rel, smaller, easier to produce, and still pack a good punch, speeds, maybe the B'rel is faster, and/or more maneuverable. Fewer weapons, and more dedicated to each of them.
you're right but whenever the kvort was used- it was merely a enlarged B'rel- so a single forward torp tube & 2 disruptor cannons (no matter the size) are hardly scary amounts of firepower!
my arguement for STO is yes ok include the old BoP for nostalgia- but also introduce a new modern advanced BoP with modern levels of armament.
LordDave
05-15-2009, 04:43 PM
Nice 404 error dave. :p
DAmnit! Try this one.
http://www.zam.com/Im/image/120295
LordDave
05-15-2009, 04:45 PM
you're right but whenever the kvort was used- it was merely a enlarged B'rel- so a single forward torp tube & 2 disruptor cannons (no matter the size) are hardly scary amounts of firepower!
my arguement for STO is yes ok include the old BoP for nostalgia- but also introduce a new modern advanced BoP with modern levels of armament.
Why?
Two disruptors, one torpedo tube. (I'm sure it doesn't have an aft torpedo)
Great little ship, good for strafing runs or scouting or transport or basically out maneuvering the big ships. The Bird of Prey is exactly what it should be: Cheap and quick to build, fast, maneuverable, and packs a good hit and run punch. What more could you want?
Why?
Two disruptors, one torpedo tube. (I'm sure it doesn't have an aft torpedo)
Great little ship, good for strafing runs or scouting or transport or basically out maneuvering the big ships. The Bird of Prey is exactly what it should be: Cheap and quick to build, fast, maneuverable, and packs a good hit and run punch. What more could you want?
in an episode of DS9 a BoP is seen to fire a torp from aft- which means it must have an aft torp tube.
in many episodes its cannon fodder- completely pwned by the Defiant.
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 05:00 PM
Why?
Two disruptors, one torpedo tube. (I'm sure it doesn't have an aft torpedo)
Great little ship, good for strafing runs or scouting or transport or basically out maneuvering the big ships. The Bird of Prey is exactly what it should be: Cheap and quick to build, fast, maneuverable, and packs a good hit and run punch. What more could you want?
He wants a ship loaded down with weapons facing all directions, maybe he should reroll federation.
The Bird of Prey fits its role quite well, I'm sure the firepower will be acceptable, I'm going to have to keep one around on the Klingon side, even when I have one of my newer favorites, the Vor'cha.
I'm sure smaller federation ships will only have a 3 weapon systems and be very comparable in firepower to a Bird of Prey, only they have a wider arc with which they can fire, fitting the style of the federation. This fits the Klingon style, slightly fewer weapons, mostly forward facing packing a strong punch.
Btw, you forget the Defiant is supposed to be the federations pure warship, it still has some science and other capabilities, but its designed to be a ship for battle, packing a lot of high tech Federation stuff in a small size, in addition to holding a advanced Romulan Cloaking device, which I'm sure the Romulans took back after the war. It's small, slightly larger then a Bird of Prey in length, but it isnt the same class of ship.
well seeing as the Defiant can wipe the floor with the BoP - I was hoping a new BoP with more firepower would even things out. it is afterall only logical.
in the brief klingon federation war & dominion war the klingons saw just how good the defiant was compared to the BoP. they'd be stupid to leave the ageing BoPs as they were.
Kahless_Ruv
05-15-2009, 06:09 PM
I would have one of the great birds as my "travel" ship.
KashikoiBaka
05-15-2009, 06:12 PM
The thing about the klingons is they will design a good ship, the BoP for example and then increase its size or decrease its sized based on what type of ship they want it to be. So you can end up having two ships that look liked BoP of largely differing sizes. Like having a RC Model Plane next to a real one. Only with disrupters.
Jenaside
05-15-2009, 06:20 PM
Isn't the Raptor Class an updated Bird Of Prey? The specs of the ship itself makes me think it is..
If you dont know what it looks like, click my guild link below, its on the Site Logo....
Prospero
05-15-2009, 06:27 PM
What most people FAIL to realize is that the Bird of Prey is a scout ship, I don't believe it was ever built to go one on one in a punch for punch slugfest against another ship.
BrockSamson
05-15-2009, 06:30 PM
What's an older ship design? A shell... big deal... The United States military has used the same class carrier, the Nimitz, for the past how many decades and it proved to be reliable platform to which can be upgraded constantly to meet real world threats.
Same thing with the Bird of Prey, and the D7 for that matter. These aren't P51 Mustangs from WWII fighting in an age of F-22 Raptors and F35 JSF's. Aerodynamics doesn't matter when you're in space. Frankly, a D7 could be gutted, and be just as deadly today as it was 100-150 years ago...
For some reason people think the design is what's outdated... in a vacuum, what does design even matter? Hell a Borg ice cube shape never needs to change, just be upgraded.
I would fully expect to see Birds of Prey, D7's and Romulan D7's in this game, based on the above mentioned points.
Agreed?
Kahless_Ruv
05-15-2009, 06:34 PM
What's an older ship design? A shell... big deal... The United States military has used the same class carrier, the Nimitz, for the past how many decades and it proved to be reliable platform to which can be upgraded constantly to meet real world threats.
Same thing with the Bird of Prey, and the D7 for that matter. These aren't P51 Mustangs from WWII fighting in an age of F-22 Raptors and F35 JSF's. Aerodynamics doesn't matter when you're in space. Frankly, a D7 could be gutted, and be just as deadly today as it was 100-150 years ago...
For some reason people think the design is what's outdated... in a vacuum, what does design even matter? Hell a Borg ice cube shape never needs to change, just be upgraded.
I would fully expect to see Birds of Prey, D7's and Romulan D7's in this game, based on the above mentioned points.
Agreed?
I agree, even if you are a dirty Romulan.
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 06:40 PM
Isn't the Raptor Class an updated Bird Of Prey? The specs of the ship itself makes me think it is..
If you dont know what it looks like, click my guild link below, its on the Site Logo....
I'm not as fond of the Raptor class looks, the big things on the wings for the disrupters... too.... I dont know, the original looks far better in my opinion. The Raptor class also fits the Destroyer role according to http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/raptor_class The Bird of Prey had been a scout ship or a frigate, even though Archer referred to the bird of prey (of his era) as a Battle Cruiser, the Vulcan science database considered it a scout ship.
And yes, the Bird of Prey was a fast scout ship, but it could fight well against many comparable ships, but it wasnt a ship designed for heavy combat like the D7, K'tinga, Vor'cha. Though it was handy to have around, pretty decent firepower, 2 Bird of Preys (not sure which type, K'vort or B'rel) and a Galaxy class can take on a D'deridex, with a single volley, based on a episode of TNG where they said as much when a D'deridex threatened to destroy the Enterprise with a single volley.
The Defiant, is a warship, doesn't have all the science capability, supposed to have been part of a counter to the Borg, Fit all the best systems on a small frame, as compact as possible, I dont think it has a holodeck, and I know it doesn't have spacious quarters.
Edit: I dont think the Romulans will be using the old D7/K'tinga style hulls, they seem to have departed from that style. I think it was a short period where they acquired a lot of Klingon Vessels, in return for cloaking technology, refitted with Romulan weapons.
Kahless_Ruv
05-15-2009, 06:45 PM
In cannon, I believe there are references to the refitting of Birds of Prey. I point to Star Trek: Generations where Riker asks Worf about the Duras Sisters' ship(a BoP). Worf, I believe, said something to the aforementioned effect (there cloaking coil could be effected by a physical effect of some sort).
BrockSamson
05-15-2009, 06:53 PM
Kahless_Ruv,
Watch your filthly Klingon tongue, before I cut it out and pistol whip you with it! LOL
Seriously, people need to ditch the notion that a specific design is obsolete. OBVIOUSLY, the Bird of Prey has proved to be a reliable platform which can be upgraded to meet modern day threats posed by those Federeation sissys.
hehe
Now, we the Romulans, we traded in our D7's because people back in the TOS days couldn't tell us apart from the Klingon scum so, you know... gotta represent!!! LOL
Kahless_Ruv
05-15-2009, 06:55 PM
Kahless_Ruv,
Watch your filthly Klingon tongue, before I cut it out and pistol whip you with it! LOL
Seriously, people need to ditch the notion that a specific design is obsolete. OBVIOUSLY, the Bird of Prey has proved to be a reliable platform which can be upgraded to meet modern day threats posed by those Federeation sissys.
hehe
Now, we the Romulans, we traded in our D7's because people back in the TOS days couldn't tell us apart from the Klingon scum so, you know... gotta represent!!! LOL
You're alright for a Romulan...
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 06:57 PM
Kahless_Ruv,
Watch your filthly Klingon tongue, before I cut it out and pistol whip you with it! LOL
Seriously, people need to ditch the notion that a specific design is obsolete. OBVIOUSLY, the Bird of Prey has proved to be a reliable platform which can be upgraded to meet modern day threats posed by those Federeation sissys.
hehe
Now, we the Romulans, we traded in our D7's because people back in the TOS days couldn't tell us apart from the Klingon scum so, you know... gotta represent!!! LOL
Or maybe The Klingons destroyed all those Romulan ships afterward. Afterall we dont want people mixing up the cowardly Romulans for our great Klingon warriors.
Take the basic hull design of a ship, simple, effective, replace the materials of the hull, all the systems inside and you have a nice new ship that still keeps the basic look of the old ship. They like the style of the ship, they keep it around and update everything except the shape, exterior structure, and the basic type of weapon systems.
BrockSamson
05-15-2009, 07:11 PM
I swear, you Klingons.... before the night is over, I'm going to have my schedule filled with pistol whippings!!
Or maybe the Klingons decided to keep the D7's and just upgrade them to throw off those Federation Intel dogs.... "if they all look the same, they can't tell which ones are more deadly".... eh? EH!???
Jenaside
05-15-2009, 07:24 PM
Ok, well, obsolete or not.... when we start out in this game, my understanding is that we will be given an "Old Clunker" of a ship.. So who's to say that the Old Bird Of Prey isn't that ship for the Klingons?
overlordthor
05-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Ok, well, obsolete or not.... when we start out in this game, my understanding is that we will be given an "Old Clunker" of a ship.. So who's to say that the Old Bird Of Prey isn't that ship for the Klingons?
I dont recall an interview about an "old clunker", only that we'd get a frigate size ship, and a choice of a few different ships, or variants of a single ship.
They've got to have a basic upgraded version of the Bird Of Prey, somewhere, but we might start out with old ships stll surviving from the Dominion war Era, wouldnt be fair if the Federation got nice new shiny ships based on the Miranda with superior weapons and technology