Champions Online getting microtransactions?

[Rgoodfel]

This makes me very unhappy. I so do hope this isn't a model in ST:O.


http://www.massively.com/2009/05/08/champions-online-getting-microtransactions/

To be fair to Cryptic it might not be so bad it might just be for extra char slots and such. But it does make me very worried.

[cyris]

Eh. Microtransactions aren't that bad. It seems to be a much more successful evonomic approach than monthly fees...

As long as I'm not required to buy them to get the best stuff in the game its fine.

[ramjam380]

Yeah, if you thought people were worried about the Federation picking up a currency, this is going to be a completely new level of discontent.

I guess I'm open to the idea, and the statement Cryptic gives certainly doesn't commit to that kind of system, but I would be much more comfortable with the standard subscription.

[Tumek]

Im not sure i get it. can some one explain for me?

[dyvimtorm]

I would hope they would have a standard monthly fee that includes everything, then if they want some sort of limited playability microtransactions past that for people who want to use it instead of the monthly fee (ostensibly to save a few bucks), then so be it, but overall I agree, I don't like the idea for this MMO. Just an opinion, though,

[Tamgros]

This is some of the worst news I've heard in a while (from a CO perspective). There a bunch of other systems they could use that don't require people to feel nickel and dimed. People's success in an MMO shouldn't depend on disposable income outside the game. That's part of the reason many people play a game, for uniformity.

If STO institutes this I'll be very skeptical about STO. I like a lot of their ideas, but Cryptic really does have some explaining to do on some of these potential decisions.

[raldar]

If this game goes with micros I won't be playing it.Even if the game is free I'll be damed if I'm going to lose out on playing with better stuff just because I can't afford it. The only things micros does is give an advantage to those with more money. Plain and simple.

[TruthSeer]

Granted we have no idea what this entails, for all we know this could be like it City of Heroes where you can buy additional character slots.

[Rgoodfel]

Im not sure i get it. can some one explain for me?

Microtransactions are small payments, perhaps as low of the order of a cent. They are being considered for digital content on the web (costume options, items, really any item in game potentially) rather than just paying a flat fee to use the entire game .

[Kade]

Eh. Microtransactions aren't that bad. It seems to be a much more successful evonomic approach than monthly fees...

As long as I'm not required to buy them to get the best stuff in the game its fine.

That has been the point of every micro-transaction game I've either played or looked at. If the stuff in the "shop/store" was of inferior quality or wasn't necessary, no one would buy it and there would be no point in having the shop. You'll never sell something unless it has value, is needed. If a shop/store is created, it'll have items that are needed/required.

[CherryTerri]

Im not sure i get it. can some one explain for me?

What microtransaction are, are pretty much items you can buy outside a monthly fee.

Hm, let me see if I can explain.

Let's take EverQuest2 for example. After getting the game and getting a subscription, that will cost you whatever amount of money (usually 30+15) to get the game.

Now they have something called Station Cash. This allows people to spend real money to buy station coins (usually 1$ to 100 coins) in order to buy little "fluff" things like appearance armor with no stats, furnature for decoration, pets for your house, etc or potions that raise your experience for an hour.

These are what microtransactions are.

Many people see these as game breaking, because players can buy items that supposedly ruin their gaming experience.

For me, they don't do anything of the sort. If a person wants to shell out 50 bucks to buy appearance armor good for them. I could give a whoop.

Games like Maple Story (with no subscription) live from microtransactions (Nexxon cash) as people buy items BUT the difference is those items disappear after, I think a week or so. So more money must be spent again.

I think many don't realize that microtransactions can pull in MORE money than subscriptions. There are many articles speaking about just that on the internet

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/27/for-chinese-im-portal-tencent-the-money-is-in-micro-transactions/

I think one of the problems is that we in America are not used to such a structure, but in Asia is is all over in many games.

Of course since we know NOTHING on what would be in the microtransactions of STO or even IF they will have it, kind of dumb to put the cart before the horse now.

[Kade]

What microtransaction are, are pretty much items you can buy outside a monthly fee.

Hm, let me see if I can explain.

Let's take EverQuest2 for example. After getting the game and getting a subscription, that will cost you whatever amount of money (usually 30+15) to get the game.

Now they have something called Station Cash. This allows people to spend real money to buy station coins (usually 1$ to 100 coins) in order to buy little "fluff" things like appearance armor with no stats, furnature for decoration, pets for your house, etc or potions that raise your experience for an hour.

These are what microtransactions are.

Many people see these as game breaking, because players can buy items that supposedly ruin their gaming experience.

For me, they don't do anything of the sort. If a person wants to shell out 50 bucks to buy appearance armor good for them. I could give a whoop.

Games like Maple Story (with no subscription) live from microtransactions (Nexxon cash) as people buy items BUT the difference is those items disappear after, I think a week or so. So more money must be spent again.

I think many don't realize that microtransactions can pull in MORE money than subscriptions. There are many articles speaking about just that on the internet

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/27/for-chinese-im-portal-tencent-the-money-is-in-micro-transactions/

I think one of the problems is that we in America are not used to such a structure, but in Asia is is all over in many games.

Of course since we know NOTHING on what would be in the microtransactions of STO or even IF they will have it, kind of dumb to put the cart before the horse now.

That may be the case for that SOE game, but you are conveniently leaving out all of the other games, a vast amount of micro-transaction games in which the items bought in the shops give a significant bonus to the player over others who have not purchased said items. Atlantica Online is a more well known example of this.

[Tumek]

Microtransactions are small payments, perhaps as low of the order of a cent. They are being considered for digital content on the web (costume options, items, really any item in game potentially) rather than just paying a flat fee to use the entire game .

thank you :) this does not seem liek a good idea to me. I dont have a credit card so with these games ill just go buy a gamecard or w/e but it doesnt sound like ill be able to do that is they use this payment format.

[Tumek]

What microtransaction are, are pretty much items you can buy outside a monthly fee.

Hm, let me see if I can explain.

Let's take EverQuest2 for example. After getting the game and getting a subscription, that will cost you whatever amount of money (usually 30+15) to get the game.

Now they have something called Station Cash. This allows people to spend real money to buy station coins (usually 1$ to 100 coins) in order to buy little "fluff" things like appearance armor with no stats, furnature for decoration, pets for your house, etc or potions that raise your experience for an hour.

These are what microtransactions are.

Many people see these as game breaking, because players can buy items that supposedly ruin their gaming experience.

For me, they don't do anything of the sort. If a person wants to shell out 50 bucks to buy appearance armor good for them. I could give a whoop.

Games like Maple Story (with no subscription) live from microtransactions (Nexxon cash) as people buy items BUT the difference is those items disappear after, I think a week or so. So more money must be spent again.

I think many don't realize that microtransactions can pull in MORE money than subscriptions. There are many articles speaking about just that on the internet

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/27/for-chinese-im-portal-tencent-the-money-is-in-micro-transactions/

I think one of the problems is that we in America are not used to such a structure, but in Asia is is all over in many games.

Of course since we know NOTHING on what would be in the microtransactions of STO or even IF they will have it, kind of dumb to put the cart before the horse now.

Thank you for explaining for me

[Tamgros]

These are what microtransactions are.

For me, they don't do anything of the sort. If a person wants to shell out 50 bucks to buy appearance armor good for them. I could give a whoop.

Games like Maple Story (with no subscription) live from microtransactions (Nexxon cash) as people buy items BUT the difference is those items disappear after, I think a week or so. So more money must be spent again.

I think many don't realize that microtransactions can pull in MORE money than subscriptions. There are many articles speaking about just that on the internet


You gave a pretty solid description. I have no problem with people paying money for purely cosmetic things. If people have to pay for little cosmetic differences on their ship interiors or star bases or something that have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on other content or your ability to be successful.

Yes, microtransactions bring in a lot of money, but that's because some people are willing to pay a lot of money to get an edge. To me, this destroys an MMO experience because I want skill, above all else, to win out.

Conclusion:
Microtransactions on purely cosmetic goods = fine
Microtransactions on necessary goods = game breaker, there are plenty of other games out there.

[TruthSeer]

That may be the case for that SOE game, but you are conveniently leaving out all of the other games, a vast amount of micro-transaction games in which the items bought in the shops give a significant bonus to the player over others who have not purchased said items. Atlantica Online is a more well known example of this.

Or we can look at City of Heroes where micro transactions where a couple of costume pieces and extra character slots.

[Kade]

You gave a pretty solid description. I have no problem with people paying money for purely cosmetic things. If people have to pay for little cosmetic differences on their ship interiors or star bases or something that have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on other content or your ability to be successful.

Yes, microtransactions bring in a lot of money, but that's because some people are willing to pay a lot of money to get an edge. To me, this destroys an MMO experience because I want skill, above all else, to win out.

Conclusion:
Microtransactions on purely cosmetic goods = fine
Microtransactions on necessary goods = game breaker, there are plenty of other games out there.

That I could live with. If even 1 item gives a gameplay boost in anyway, though...I'd be very, very disappointed.

[ransomwk]

I will not play a game that requires that I pay real money to upgrade my toon.

[Kade]

Or we can look at City of Heroes where micro transactions where a couple of costume pieces and extra character slots.

Which is basically what CT said. I pointed that there were many other MT methods/schemes out there and that out of objectivity all needed to be considered as we on the outside have no clue which route they take. Just because they offered that in CoH doesn't mean it won't change to offering stat effecting items in STO.

[MattTreck]

i really hope that they do not do this with STO

unless its just for things like i guess, costume parts for those that have played City of Heroes you should NOT be able to buy important things such as weapon upgrades, all that dose is make the game play worse for people with less money.


i would much rather pay just Monthly Fees

[KL0k]

omg... ...i wont call out names, but i believe i know who cameup with that idea... *rollingeyes* ...

*cough*flagship*cough*

[ngille]

I wouldn't mind the appearance altering stuff or even paying for extra character slots. I would even go so far as being okay with experience enhancing items (if they want to blow through levels and get bored of the game before me, have at it lol ).

Anything that gives a definative advantage, such as sheilds, firepower, etc then I don't want anything to do with it.

[Loekii]

I wouldn't mind the appearance altering stuff or even paying for extra character slots. I would even go so far as being okay with experience enhancing items (if they want to blow through levels and get bored of the game before me, have at it lol ).

Anything that gives a definative advantage, such as sheilds, firepower, etc then I don't want anything to do with it.


I concur. I am fine with 'Fluff' stuff.

However, if people are paying RMT for ship upgrades, ships, weapons, advanced tricorders, and other things that impact the game, then it very may well cause me to pass over STO.

If Cryptic is hurting that bad for the Cash, just increase the monthly by $1.00/mo and give everyone access to those items, instead of nickle and diming players and creating a disparity in the player base.

[Suiko]

Yes, microtransactions bring in a lot of money, but that's because some people are willing to pay a lot of money to get an edge. To me, this destroys an MMO experience because I want skill, above all else, to win out.

Conclusion:
Microtransactions on purely cosmetic goods = fine
Microtransactions on necessary goods = game breaker, there are plenty of other games out there.

Yes, it does bring in a lot of money. I know a guy who spent $2000 on an online game so he could buy/upgrade all his equipment to the best. *Edit: No, it wasn't World of Warcraft :P!

I agree against having microtransaction stores in STO if players are able to buy quick upgrades/skills etc, to out beat other players. That's unfair to the players that cannot afford it.

[jakeguy99]

I dont like the idea of people who have more money to spare getting the better deal of things. The point of playing these games is to get away from those "classifications" in life and give people the opportunity to thrive in something that does not require a real currency leading to a better class status.

[Aethelstan]

First reaction: No.
Second reaction: NOOOOOOOOO!

*cough*

Micro-Transactions are generally horrible for the player base. Not only in terms of 'nickle and diming' but it creates multiple breaches in the community where those who buy their way to the top or 'best' or 'prettiest' become despised by those 'beneath' them and those at the top think they're better than the rest.

Yes, in theory micro-transactions on cosmetic items like a different uniform etc are a okay (though still a bit iffy) idea. However, one of the big things that has been pushed about STO is the Character and Ship customization.

Lets say you finally get STO, you get in game and go to create a character, eager to see all the possible combinations. But wait, you can only make a Human and a Klingon...why? Oh you have to buy other species via micro-transactions. So you shrug it off, buy a vulcan and think 'right lets get on with the game'. Play for awhile and decide 'hm, lets look at my ship options'. And while gazing at your modern looking Miranda complete with bizarre holes in the saucer you decide 'you know, this would look better as an original Miranda, TMP style.' So you try and change it.....more micro-transactions.

Now, maybe I'm just being paranoid but micro-transactions IF implemented in STO, with all the information about customization makes me suspect that that is the route it would take. I don't want to go into a game and find, if I want a ship looking like a late 23rd century style as shown in the ZAM article I have to pay another £5.00 or whatever. I don't want to have to buy 23rd century style nacelles, hull plating etc. I don't want to have to buy a long hair style because theres only 2-3 default hairstyles all of which look stupid.

Ultimately, I doubt I'd play STO if it did use micro-transactions, and I seriously doubt I'm alone in that.

[Tamgros]

Or we can look at City of Heroes where micro transactions where a couple of costume pieces and extra character slots.
This is about the extent I would be willing to play, as long as they give me 6 or more slots to begin with. You really need to give people a chance to experience most if not all classes. 6 character slots is more than reasonable to expect.

If Cryptic is hurting that bad for the Cash, just increase the monthly by $1.00/mo and give everyone access to those items, instead of nickle and diming players and creating a disparity in the player base.
This is exactly my point. Many peolple game in MMOs to enter a somewhat even environment where skill and time investment in the game are what make you good within the game. RL standing is irrelevant. I'm moderately successful in RL, and i feel this way as well. Why should those less fortunate than me ALWAYS be on less of a footing? We can't be equals in a STAR TREK video game?!?!?!? :eek::rolleyes::eek:

Yes, it does bring in a lot of money. I know a guy who spent $2000 on an online game so he could buy/upgrade all his equipment to the best.

I agree against having microtransaction stores in STO if players are able to buy quick upgrades/skills etc, to out beat other players. That's unfair to the players that cannot afford it.
When I was a freshmen in college I decided to bond with my Korean roommate by playing a microtransaction MMO. 2 weeks in, we hit a bit of a wall where we couldn't do much without spending money.

Me roommate dropped 3 THOUSAND DOLLARS on his character (he apparently spent almost $20k over the course of the year). Uhhhhhhhhhh, yeah, couldn't exactly play with him any more...

[Suiko]

Ultimately, I doubt I'd play STO if it did use micro-transactions, and I seriously doubt I'm alone in that.

I think I'd still play, I've been waiting for this too long. I would be disappointed though a bit because of that. But from past experiences when I found a good game that used micro-transactions I usually ended up quitting because it just took a lot of fun out of it. You spend all that time to earn what you have and then someone else just comes along and gets it in a matter of a day or two. I don't plan on being the best but I'd like to have a chance to stand with the best, if I put in the effort.

[Corehaven22]

You've got to be kidding me. If micro transactions are in the game I'll simply have to pass. And I WONT be happy about it. I've been looking forward to this game for years.

Im a big anti micro transactions guy. I HATE the entire concept.

Like I've said before, dont nickle and dime me. I paid my money and I want all the content therein. Dont be a carnie Cryptic. :mad:

[Suiko]

When I was a freshmen in college I decided to bond with my Korean roommate by playing a microtransaction MMO. 2 weeks in, we hit a bit of a wall where we couldn't do much without spending money.

Me roommate dropped 3 THOUSAND DOLLARS on his character (he apparently spent almost $20k over the course of the year). Uhhhhhhhhhh, yeah, couldn't exactly play with him any more...

Good gosh, that's a lot ><! I have faith in Cryptic, I don't think they would want to ruin a game like STO by adding such an in-game market that can affect the skill levels of players that much.

[Loekii]

What are games that use Micro-tranactions and to what extent?

[threeedgedsword]

I will only speak for myself here (though make no mistake about it, there are MANY others that feel as I do), I do have a problem with micro transactions of any kind. Even the ones that are only for "fluff" stuff. I'm sure you've all heard the arguments for both sides of this issue so I'll spare the rehashing and just cut to the chase. I will not play any game that has micro transactions. Period.

Think about it Cryptic, think about it long and hard. For any MMO to succeed in todays market you need to have a great rep to start with. Do MT's and you'll be starting with one foot in the grave before you ever get a box on a shelf.

Q'plah

[ngille]

I would be willing to pay a subscription as high as 20US per month, but I seriously want nothing to do with micro-transactions.

It will (in my opinion) kill the game enough that sooner or later it will have to go to the free to play with item mall crap game that usually comes out of asia and would end up being about the same quality.

[Suiko]

What are games that use Micro-tranactions and to what extent?

The I mentioned before about a guy who spent $2000 on the game was called Conquer Online. It is a free to play game. But to make any kind of money in the game you have to buy batches of items that sell at a high price in game with real money. Because of that, if you jump into the game with no intention of paying any money it will be very hard to get very far equipment/gear wise. That is because all of the valued items are extremely highed priced and are bought by the people that use real money in the game.

I played for free for 2 years and someone who spent real money could get to where I finally got within a week. I had fun playing but new patches starting getting releases with new items you can buy and I really didn't want to be an extreme player to just be able to keep up with them.

[DanSeale]

I will not play a game that requires that I pay real money to upgrade my toon.

I agree 100%.

That does not mean that all micro transactions are those that require cash for upgrades, or that options are available for improving your toon for cash.

I DO NOT under any circumstances support even OPTIONAL microtransactions that allow toon upgrades or purchasning of items (ships, etc) that can accelorate the development of a players charactor(s).

IMHO while I could personally make that kind of an investment, there are litterally thousands of folks who could not. That interprits to unfair short cuts and advantages to those who have the extra $$$ to spend.

Charge a simple monthly fee (or anually) ... then the rest is left up to the individuals skill, abilities and the amount of time they can invest into the game.

[Loekii]

I wonder if this is how they are going to add 'ship interiors'?

[KO_Gilligan]

Before everyone goes all Jihad on the developers :eek:.... The article clearly indicates the mechanic is there in the UI for online purchases. This is a capability they would of course program in regardless of the decision to use it, and for what. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. It's a little inside peek at what a new MMO engine would certainly be able to do - let you open your wallet.

Cryptic has consistently stated that they haven't officially decided on pricing or upgraded/added content.

The UI is filled with stuff. Really :D . There is no way any conclusions can be made because somebody stumbled on ("noted") a tab to make an online purchase.

[Suiko]

IMHO while I could personally make that kind of an investment, there are litterally thousands of folks who could not. That interprits to unfair short cuts and advantages to those who have the extra $$$ to spend.
.

Agreed, I don't have a problem as others have put it before to buying fluff* items.

[Suiko]

The UI is filled with stuff. Really :D . There is no way any conclusions can be made because somebody stumbled on ("noted") a tab to make an online purchase.

Yep, conclusions are not being made though, just opinions on what people think about it. That is one of the things forums are for, discussing.

[KL0k]

I wonder if this is how they are going to add 'ship interiors'?

STO with microtransactions = same fate like hellgate:london

[Saerain]

When it comes to microtransactions, the only model I've liked so far has been EVE's PLEX system, although I'm not really sure it counts. Either way, I think it's genius. However, we don't even know whether STO has an economy, and if it does it's probably very unlike EVE's hypercapitalism, so I guess that's moot.

[Suricata]

I'm holding back on judgement until i see how they implement it, I know Perpetual were looking at a similar scheme as well, but its all dependent on what you can buy. But its a great way to bring in extra money, which is good as this can go towards improving the game.

For example, World of Warcraft has the trading card game, you can buy trading cards and get items in game, all cosmetic mind, none have an impact on the game, some people whine about it, but its not a game breaker. Then we have game like Navyfield, its a korean type MMO, its free to play, however, if you subscribe, you get more XP, which ot me is a pretty good deal, since I have no issues paying to play an MMO and those that arn't paying have no right to complain! That said, in Navyfeield you could upgrade your crew and buy some of the best ships in the game, this ruined it a little bit, but again. it wasn't a game breaker.

So, how could this fit into STO? Well, they could have certian hull options you can buy, extra charactor slots, perhaps certain uniform options, maybe even extra options when player housing is introduced. I have no issue with this at all. I know some people will always have the entire equality argument against this, but then we've had the entire casual vs hardcore debate going on for years as well over all content been avaialble for everyone, no matter how much you play or pay, which in my eyes is what has destroyed games like WoW for me, since everything is so easy to get that the players that devote everything to a game don't get much more now than someone putting in any effort at all. Afterall, some things are meant to remain rare and special, thus retianing there rarity and specialness!

[stat]

As long as it's purely aesthetic items, or something else that has ZERO effect on gameplay, I really dont care.

[Interdictor]

Not too happy about this. I don't even like what they are doing in CoH. I mean - what am I giving you a monthly fee for if not new content? And then you expect me to fork over another 15 bucks for a couple stinking costume pieces and an emote? Yeah right. Those "booster packs" are just not worth it.

[Thibor]

If they keep it in the realm of vanity items or things that don't impact gameplay such that it gives others a competitive advantage, they can do with the mechanism as they please. Though they won't be getting any additional money from me through that mechanic.

If they're going to turn it into a "the more money you invest over someone else, the more powerful you'll be in relation to them" type of system then Cryptic can whistle Dixie as they won't see a dime from me.

Paying the same monthly fee as everyone else, with access to the same content as everyone else with the only big difference separating the "haves" from the "have nots" is time investment, I'm perfectly fine with.

In RL i don't play the game of:
If neighbor X has a 46" TV I must get a 50"
Or if they have a 700w home theater system I must get a 1000w system
If neighbor Y has a 16' fishing boat I must get a 20'
If friend Z drives a $35k SUV I must get a $45k SUV
If someone I know has a $70k/yr job I need to have an $80k/yr salary
etc
etc

I don't play "Keep up with the Jones'" in my RL and I'll be damned if I'm going to do it some virtual world where RL currency is the vehicle to achieve it. And if in the future all MMOs gravitate to this pricing structure then I'll go back to simply chatting with my friends on Vent/TS while I play games like Civ4, Sup Com, Oblivion and HL2.

If Cryptic wants to design the "advanced customization module" such that if you pay them an extra x amount (flat fee or monthly) then you have access to additional color schemes or additional things you can customize the look of, that would be perfectly acceptable to me. Or other ideas like that where the person choosing to pay extra may get somethng that looks cool but doesn't give them an advantage over those opting not to.

All of that said, that they're "investigating" it doesn't have me worried yet. Companies need to look at things, understand them and determine if they have some new slant on a mechanic that will make it a winner for them. Whether we see this come to pass in Champion, STO or any future Cryptic title is pure speculation.

[KO_Gilligan]

Yep, conclusions are not being made though, just opinions on what people think about it. That is one of the things forums are for, discussing.

You apparently aren't reading the posts - Look up 2 posts..

People are always making stupid conclusions, it's human nature apparently.

[Corehaven22]

I think I have a pitchfork out in my shed.......gonna go look for it..... and a torch. Need a torch......

[KO_Gilligan]

I think I have a pitchfork out in my shed.......gonna go look for it..... and a torch. Need a torch......

Upgrade to "Torch" by credit card - confirmed :D

[KL0k]

i guess i can say that we all want this game to be succesful. devs, publisher, trek-/mmo-/sci-fi-fans, so i think ppl have the right to voice their opinion, and i for one hope, they will think twice about things like that.
even if the microtransactions dont involve gameplay related things - ppl will hear first that this is in there, and then you cant reach the most of them cause they dont wanna hear anything about it anymore, which makes it harder to advertise the whole thang, and the company has then a hard time selling the game or just keeping the servers up n running, cause no income = losses = dropping = dead horse.

same thing happened to another company. the game itself wasnt bad, to be honest it was pretty good actually, but the "pay extra please"-attitude splatup the community, which lead to the point where it killed the game AND the whole company right afterwards in the long run.

PS: i think i sound like a broken record, but things like this got me sittin here goin ".. no.. No..Noo-NOOOO!"

[Evi1Genius]

Thats an awesome concept assuming there is no subscription fees, this is exactly what a expect from a good game.

GuildWars has an in game store (so I'm use to it). Its mostly aesthetic stuff, extra character slots and the additional campaigns that doesn't usually affect the core advantages over other players. On the 4th anniversary of the game they offered the players an additional extra bank slot for items as a free gift as part of the celebration. Had to register to unlock it from the store but it made me aware of the other in game accessories on offer.

I think it works fine, it gives the player the choice to buy any additional stuff if they want to.

[Aethelstan]

Well I as much as anyone hope my nutty/paranoid rant turns out wrong. But as others have already said, I object to micro-transactions for a number of reasons, the most important of which are 1) If we buy a game and pay a monthly subscription, we shouldn't then have to pay extra for every little customization we want to make. 2) Not everyone will be able to afford it where as most would be able to afford a monthly subscription alone provided it is reasonable (in-line with other mmo's of this standard).

There is also the fact that, as one can guess from the briefest of glances at this very thread, micro-transactions have a VERY BAD reputation. This is not the sort of thing that will attract people to STO, it will drive them away, if not by making them decide not to even touch the game then by making them feel left out come 2 months in and quitting in droves. Doing Micro-transactions would be the equivilant of blowing your whole leg off, never mind shooting yourself in the foot. Star Trek isn't the most popular thing in the world, and although the new movie may turn that around slightly, the game will still need to be at its best to attract and more importantly keep players. Micro-transactions will just be another barrier to people coming into the game and should be avoided.

Simply put - do not do it.

[ZeframCochrane]

I'm a casual player with a couple of nickles to rub together so I'm OK with being able to buy upgrades rather than having to grind game time for them.

HOWEVER, this would likely be a deal breaker for alot of people. Even if the way it is implemented makes perfect sense people may be put off by the mention of it. That could effect the sucess of the game and ultimately everyone's gameplay experience.

If this is true it may end up being a hard sell for Cryptic.

[KL0k]

even atari should see this and step in,since their own rep. suffered through alone in the dark for example

[USS_Parallax]

It matters what kind of microtransactions. Even WoW has it for certain functions like renaming your character, moving your character to another server and a lot more.

Nobody will notice much IF these transactions are ONLY for stuff that's far outside of gameplay like name changing. Additional slots if it's anything like CoH will be buyable BUT you'll have plenty to begin with.

[Corehaven22]

So....I couldnt find the pitchfork. I got a shovel though. That should work right? Now....gasoline.....yea got that. Need to find my hockey mask............

[Suiko]

HOWEVER, this would likely be a deal breaker for alot of people. Even if the way it is implemented makes perfect sense people may be put off by the mention of it. That could effect the sucess of the game and ultimately everyone's gameplay experience.


I wonder how much it would change the success of STO. I know a lot of people are against it but also a lot of people that do spend real money in game don't usually admit it. Also, look at how much money people pend on World of Warcraft for just buying WoW gold. I am against it but I wonder how much it would affect the success of the game.

[KO_Gilligan]

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Service Vessel"

:Spin the wheel: / sorry, Klingons Attack

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Maintenance Cruiser" assigned to space beacon upkeep.

Borg Ship Approaching.

Can I interest you in a Defiant? We also have a special on upgraded Sovereigns...

PayPal account name not recognized.

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Sanitation Vessel"

....

[Tamgros]

I wonder if this is how they are going to add 'ship interiors'?
Haha, honestly, I consider interiors to be 'cosmetic', so I wouldn't mind. But, a lot of people find them necessary for a ST game, I don't know...
Before everyone goes all Jihad on the developers .... The article clearly indicates the mechanic is there in the UI for online purchases. This is a capability they would of course program in regardless of the decision to use it, and for what. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. It's a little inside peek at what a new MMO engine would certainly be able to do - let you open your wallet.

Cryptic has consistently stated that they haven't officially decided on pricing or upgraded/added content.

The UI is filled with stuff. Really :D . There is no way any conclusions can be made because somebody stumbled on ("noted") a tab to make an online purchase.

So....I couldnt find the pitchfork. I got a shovel though. That should work right? Now....gasoline.....yea got that. Need to find my hockey mask............
I went the lazy route and just programmed a virus to destroy Cryptic (we are ST fans, i wanted something a little more techy to express my mob mentality). Don't worry, i put in some nice fire effects for when their hard drives are wiped. :D I was also think of playing "We Didn't Start the Fire" in the background :cool:


Haha, but seriously. I think most people hear are under the "If they do this...":mad: mentality. I think it's good to show Cryptic that this will not be acceptable for much of their die hard player base (us).

[Aethelstan]

See, things like name change/gender change/race change/server transfers and the like such as in Ultima Online and WoW don't bother me too much, probably because they're outside of the game and are something that are traditionally charged for by MMO's so I can accept that and/or ignore it.

Its when it gets in-game that I disapprove, even if it is merely cosmetic. As for buying gold in games like wow, thats not micro-transactions, thats cheating and bannable two different things. I personally have never paid an mmo company a penny outside of buying the box and paying my sub, and I don't intend to change that.


And yes, I'm operating very much under the 'IF they do this' mentality. Better to moan now and possibly be wrong, than wait til its officially announced I say .

[Im-Kris]

As long as anything you buy doesnt give a direct advantage(ship upgrades/more crew) but gives something like char slots im perfectly ok with it.

[Corehaven22]

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Service Vessel"

:Spin the wheel: / sorry, Klingons Attack

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Maintenance Cruiser" assigned to space beacon upkeep.

Borg Ship Approaching.

Can I interest you in a Defiant? We also have a special on upgraded Sovereigns...

PayPal account name not recognized.

Congratulations, thanks for purchasing STO, you are a captain with free monthly play and a Nova class "Sanitation Vessel"

....

Garbage Scows now only a buffalo nickle! Get yours today!

Hate being naked? Pants available for 12.50. Would you like a shirt with that?

Comm Badges now only $45 plus sales tax.

Thank you for purchasing your new ship. Transaction received for the amount of $62. Would you like a warp core with that? Only 18.25!

[Tamgros]

Haha, honestly, I consider interiors to be 'cosmetic', so I wouldn't mind. But, a lot of people find them necessary for a ST game, I don't know...



I went the lazy route and just programmed a virus to destroy Cryptic (we are ST fans, i wanted something a little more techy to express my mob mentality). Don't worry, i put in some nice fire effects for when their hard drives are wiped. :D I was also think of playing "We Didn't Start the Fire" in the background :cool:


Haha, but seriously. I think most people hear are under the "If they do this...":mad: mentality. I think it's good to show Cryptic that this will not be acceptable for much of their die hard player base (us).

EDIT: 'This' meaning making the micropurchased good have in game repercussions beyond cosmetic or adding a few character slots, as long as they provide a reasonable amount of those who don't decide to pay for more.

Edit again: Whoops, i really messed that up. I meant this as an edit to my last post but apparently pushed quote instead.

[Beaver8]

Microtransactions thrive on the wealthy, and torment the poor.

Even if things are all cosmetic it is going to spawn a bunch of jealous people out there wishing they had that kind of money to blow to get purple nacells and a Rebel flag paint scheme on their hull.

There are a lot of MMO's being made right now and I am just not ready to play a game with a microtransaction system. From reading all these posts, almost nobody is.

[Ezmarii]

I'd much rather go from 10-12$/month to 15-17$ a month with no microtransactions if the developers have been forced or decide willingly that they need to quantify their time spent developing extra visual/apperance only in-game items.

Either way, it looks bad at first glance. But we cannot see all profit-increasing moves a company makes as greed based. That wouldn't be fair. If you can do that then you should also consider the entire country of America to be greed-based and that none of us are fit to be morally correct because suddenly we aren't allowed to make moves that increase profits without being called 'greedy'.

So let's drop the pretense a bit and like the gorn said, don't put the cart before the horse until we find out more about Cryptic's plans. Instead, let us express our opinions( in an un-hostile manner) of the matter in hopes Cryptic will use them as an influence on their decision regarding STO M.T.'s. As a matter of opinion, I don't care if they want a little extra money for the extra visual work done to please players and RPers looking for more appearance options ingame. I would just prefer an increased monthly rate so I don't have to look at a bank statement at the end of the month that is half filled with STO fees.

[Tamgros]

Microtransactions thrive on the wealthy, and torment the poor.

Even if things are all cosmetic it is going to spawn a bunch of jealous people out there wishing they had that kind of money to blow to get purple nacells and a Rebel flag paint scheme on their hull.

There are a lot of MMO's being made right now and I am just not ready to play a game with a microtransaction system. From reading all these posts, almost nobody is.

Personally, I have no need for cosmetic things. Actually, i would laugh at people with purple nacelles. It's a giant "i'm an idiot who paid real money for something totally cosmetic". It's part of the reason I never wear my drinking cape in AoC :o

I see what you are saying though. I don't want there to be really any microtransactions that have in game consequences. But, if they do, they better only be cosmetic, or I'm out!

I have managed to get a lot of friends interested in STO (50+). Some could spend a lot more than others. I can't possibly recommend a game to my friends that will highlight their socioeconomic status differences. I just cannot do it.:mad:

[Beaver8]

But I might be willing to pay for extra cargospace lol GIVE ME packrat ability!!!! Unless there is no need to save anything since everything will be worthless that does't come from missions....at least that's how SOME people want the lame....I mean game.

[takiwa]

First I say microtranssactions in general is a POWER FAIL.

But let me add to this.

SWG came out with a card game.
It would have no impact at all on the actual MMO.
It would allow for you to possibly win a bonus item, cosmetic only SOE swears on there life, and since the items will be in game they will be tradeable to other players for in game credits so its really not a micropurchase system.
Everyone will get 2 free card packs per month.

heres what the reality became...
people were buying the card packs from the online store, because the content of the bonus items were the best itemss/buffs in the game.
Things in the card game not only efffected gameplay, they altered it to the point that you were not able to compete in PVP with a person who had the items granted from the card packs.
Things that had been requested and promised to the community like a creature barn to store pets in, were never made for the game, they were constantly shelved.
When the card designers were looking for gimmicky things to include that the players would want they went through these items and started making them, and BTW they effect gameplay.

Now if a company can do microtransactions for true fluff items, and can limit the greedy B@stards at the company from making everything a microtransaction, then I am ok with this, someone said ship interiors as a microtransaction, I wouldd gladly pay extra for this, but it better be worth my time and money, in other words I would want the entire blueprint of my ship to walk about on, every access port every tube, every bend of pipe, otherwise just include it in an upgrade like Bravo sector, or something.
The card game is one of the reasons I finally closed my SWG accounts (plural) after 5 + years.
I do not abide lying from someone I pay, that includes MMO's.
Takiwa

[Vorador]

If STO gets microtransactions, I will not buy the game no matter how good it is.

[KO_Gilligan]

:mad: NO NEW TAXES :mad:


:p

[LunaticFringer]

Still against it myself. You're still more or less telling your customer we want more money from you for "x" content. Even if it's a jacket. That's stuff everyone should have access to no matter their financial status in a game to me. In that sense maybe I'm the only one that sees it as crooked as opposed to including such content either in an expansion or regular updates.

My worry would then also be that this would promote the monthly "gimmick" item rather than concentrating 100% on just adding to the game for everyone.

But, on the flip side, microtransactions can also refer to the type of subscription fee I've been told. Monthly fees I'm use to and more or less expect now. But having to shell out more money for virtual items (no matter how they effect gameplay) just seems very wrong in my opinion.

[KO_Gilligan]

Nanotransactions only - if anything costs more than 35 cents, I'm not buying it!

[KO_Gilligan]

Except for the Picard dance step emote collection - I'd pay $10 for those in a heartbeat

[Arthurrw]

If they do microtransactions and not a monthly fee, I too will not be playing this game.

[USS_Parallax]

Again, hopefully it will be like other MMOs where the things you can buy don't really affect the game all that much.

Name changes
Additional character slots (we'd probably have a GOOD amount to start out with)
Server transfers (if there's one server this won't be likely)
Character move (to another account under the same name)
Character re-customization (plastic surgery)

etc etc

WoW has some real bling bling items from it's card game. Those are... okay. The only ones that really affect the game at all are some of the mounts but you STILL need to buy the highest mount training and it only saves you a slight amount of in-game gold.

I hope there are no microtransactions that affect my in-game experience. Maybe I'll be jealous of that Card Game prize TOS uniform you and your crew wears but as long as it's only cosmetic it's livable.

[unachris]

Like most people in this thread, I am also against this. If they have a MT system, it sounds like it could be the death of STO. I will not play the game if they are going to nickle and dime me to death. No MT Cryptic!!!!!

[ngille]

I seriously hope the devs are monitoring this thread. I would imagine that champions (haven't checked) is probably having a discussion that mirrors ours.

[KO_Gilligan]

WoW has some real bling bling items from it's card game. Those are... okay. The only ones that really affect the game at all are some of the mounts but you STILL need to buy the highest mount training and it only saves you a slight amount of in-game gold.

I hope there are no microtransactions that affect my in-game experience. Maybe I'll be jealous of that Card Game prize TOS uniform you and your crew wears but as long as it's only cosmetic it's livable.

Orion girls don't care how much bling you have.

Hmmm. I guess you would need to spend something to actually get one though :rolleyes:

[KO_Gilligan]

I seriously hope the devs are monitoring this thread. I would imagine that champions (haven't checked) is probably having a discussion that mirrors ours.

I've been monitoring it.....


Some don't care, or don't want to jump to conclusions. But for some the news is DOOOOOM !!!!

[minago]

Atari's Phil Harrison Talks Cryptic and Online Strategy .

BIZ: Speaking of business models, Disney Online has had success with Pirates of the Caribbean Online as a free game and micro transactions are gaining popularity in this space. How do you decide the right business model?

PH: What we're seeing is fragmentation of the MMO business model. It's no longer the rigid "buy the disc and then buy the subscription with your credit card" that we've seen in the past. I think having a free-to-play or "freemium" business model dramatically increases the potential audience that can play your game and is a compelling way of growing the business for the world. I think it's going to become the preeminent business model for the future, but not all games will work for that style. Some will be subscription-based, some will be micro-transaction-based and some will be a combination of the two.

BIZ: Will you experiment with the different models?

PH: We have not made any announcements about the specific business models but I think it's safe to say that you'll see us pioneer as much as we can.

story (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/features/ataris-phil-harrison-talks-cryptic-and-online-strategy/?biz&page=1)

discussed in this thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=13182

[KO_Gilligan]

[FREEM!].......

[ngille]

I've been monitoring it.....


Some don't care, or don't want to jump to conclusions. But for some the news is DOOOOOM !!!!

I figured as much, just like our thread lol.

Personally I am trying not to jump to conclusions, however I can't help but get the Star Wars "I got a bad feeling about this" vibe going on.

[DanSeale]

Atari's Phil Harrison Talks Cryptic and Online Strategy .

BIZ: Speaking of business models, Disney Online has had success with Pirates of the Caribbean Online as a free game and micro transactions are gaining popularity in this space. How do you decide the right business model?

PH: What we're seeing is fragmentation of the MMO business model. It's no longer the rigid "buy the disc and then buy the subscription with your credit card" that we've seen in the past. I think having a free-to-play or "freemium" business model dramatically increases the potential audience that can play your game and is a compelling way of growing the business for the world. I think it's going to become the preeminent business model for the future, but not all games will work for that style. Some will be subscription-based, some will be micro-transaction-based and some will be a combination of the two.

BIZ: Will you experiment with the different models?

PH: We have not made any announcements about the specific business models but I think it's safe to say that you'll see us pioneer as much as we can.

story (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/features/ataris-phil-harrison-talks-cryptic-and-online-strategy/?biz&page=1)

discussed in this thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=13182

Not trying to jump to conclusions .. HOWEVER if Cryptic follows Disney thinking .. or other micro-what-ever-stick-it-to-the-consumer business models ... it will unquestionably jeapordize the future prospects of STO.

Yes they will stil get some business ... but the scope of their potential audience will deminish significantly.

I really do hope that this message is getting through to the proper folks inside of Cryptic.

[Cormoran]

I'll hold off until there's word from the devs on this. With it being their inhouse engine they could be simply testing a system for it, perhaps with the idea of selling it to other gaming companies who may use microtransactions.

For the record though, talk of microtransactions is what drove me away from perpetuals STO, and it'd likely drive me away from cryptics aswell if it was implemented.

[icemann448]

yeah i'll just throw my 2 cents in there, just like others the fluff stuff would be fine with me, cuz i wouldn't pay for it, but game altering things would not be good for the game, the only reason i'm reiterating what's already been said is i think that maybe, just maybe if enough of us post about it they devs might actually look at it and take it seriously.

[Awarkle]

normally most micro transaction items are things like "teleport scrolls" or "exp booster pots".

when i played archlord it was very much the case that bought items were a necesity. I managed to easily spend WAY above the normaly 15 pounds a month on items in a 2 week period.

Microtransaction games are very very profitable, HOWEVER not all of them force you to buy the items for instance in archlord the items i bought from the real money shop could be traded in game for gold / items from other shops. So there was a direct gold to money conversion.

However i suspect what they mean by microtransactions is similar to what they did in City of heroes/villains in that extra slots, costumes packs added content could be purchased, character transfers, i have no problem with any of those. its when you log into the game and your FORCED into purchasing goods to make the game actually playable.

Anyways we will see the route they go.

[ramjam380]

I'm getting more worried the longer this thread gets without some kind of comment from Cryptic...

[Iwulff]

As long as those microtransactions don't enable some secret superiour equipments/upgrades/etc... only for those who are willing to pay some extra, I don't care that much.

However i suspect what they mean by microtransactions is similar to what they did in City of heroes/villains in that extra slots, costumes packs added content could be purchased, character transfers, i have no problem with any of those.This is something I wouldn't mind either and probably use those options also, as long as it doesn't go berserk.

[Moryan_Sorg]

normaly 15 pounds a month on items in a 2 week period.

Microtransaction games are very very profitable, HOWEVER not all of them force you to buy the items for instance in archlord the items i bought from the real money shop could be traded in game for gold / items from other shops. So there was a direct gold to money conversion.

However i suspect what they mean by microtransactions is similar to what they did in City of heroes/villains in that extra slots, costumes packs added content could be purchased, character transfers, i have no problem with any of those. its when you log into the game and your FORCED into purchasing goods to make the game actually playable.
They are profitable for certain games, but I doubt they would for STO. There are enough arguments about there being money in STO at all, let alone needing to spend Real money on the game for each puchase. I have a feeling this would go over very poorly. :eek:

Things like character slots and aesthetics make a bit of sense, as long as there are reasonable amounts of both for people who pay no money.
yeah i'll just throw my 2 cents in there, just like others the fluff stuff would be fine with me, cuz i wouldn't pay for it, but game altering things would not be good for the game, the only reason i'm reiterating what's already been said is i think that maybe, just maybe if enough of us post about it they devs might actually look at it and take it seriously.

Haha, this is actually the only reason I logged in today. My brother let me know about this and wanted me to show my discontent as well. People may think that the devs have all the power. Per capita they surely do, but the community on the whole has a lot of power. We can kill the game almost as easily simply by not buying it.

That being said, this hasn't changed my opinion of the STO devs. I'm generally happy thus far, and won't change my opinion about STO devs just because of something in CO's UI and a general comment made by Atarii.

[JMD10222]

Well the only thing that is keeping me from panicking is the last sentence from a Cryptic rep from the Massively article.

"At present we do not have any finalised plans for how and if these will be implemented in future releases."

Full article below.
http://www.massively.com/category/champions-online/

[topekaguy1988]

Micropayments equal me playing SWTOR instead.

[DanSeale]

normally most micro transaction items are things like "teleport scrolls" or "exp booster pots".

when i played archlord it was very much the case that bought items were a necesity. I managed to easily spend WAY above the normaly 15 pounds a month on items in a 2 week period.

Microtransaction games are very very profitable, HOWEVER not all of them force you to buy the items for instance in archlord the items i bought from the real money shop could be traded in game for gold / items from other shops. So there was a direct gold to money conversion.

However i suspect what they mean by microtransactions is similar to what they did in City of heroes/villains in that extra slots, costumes packs added content could be purchased, character transfers, i have no problem with any of those. its when you log into the game and your FORCED into purchasing goods to make the game actually playable.

Anyways we will see the route they go.

I could see paying for EXTRA services provided.

ie:
1. Charactor name changes
2. Server transfers
3. Account specfic assistance needed

however .. I can not stress this enough: ANYTHING that interprits to:
1. Player short cuts
2. Equipment up-grades
3. Buffs, or other enhancements
in general things paid for with real money in order to build a charactor. Again (as I have said before) .. this will provide an unfair advantage for those who have the money to spend above and beyond those who are less fortunate.

I could see limiting the number of slots (toons) available for one account to use (say 6 or 7) ... That might make sense.

Beyond that, I sincerly hope that this is one game that the $15 a month (or what ever the anual fee might be) would be enough to satisfy those investers, CEO's and others who are expecting a monitary return on the game.

Look what a can of worms has been opened thus far ..

Most of us are not judging Cryptic, and we understand that they have not gone public with a statement which discloses their positon on this matter. I also believe that a good discussion on this matter might perhaps give the Dev team a proper feed back as to the pitfals of such a system.

From everything I've seen thus far .. MOST DON'T want it !

[Rgoodfel]

I wouldn't mind the appearance altering stuff or even paying for extra character slots. I would even go so far as being okay with experience enhancing items (if they want to blow through levels and get bored of the game before me, have at it lol ).

Anything that gives a definative advantage, such as sheilds, firepower, etc then I don't want anything to do with it.

I am not a fan of the experience enhancing items myself. But, if they sticked to character slots, or costume items (especially if they released them to the general populates after a time) would not break my desire for the game. But if I feel have to spend a lot of extra money to keep up *shakes head* that would disappoint me greatly.

[CherryTerri]

That may be the case for that SOE game, but you are conveniently leaving out all of the other games, a vast amount of micro-transaction games in which the items bought in the shops give a significant bonus to the player over others who have not purchased said items. Atlantica Online is a more well known example of this.

Sadly, I cannot give an example or comment on a subject I do not know about (ie Atlantica Online). But you are correct that there are games that the microtransactions that are bought are for items that do have stats on them that can make them better over things you find in the game.

And would you happen to be a Kade from EQ2? My guild leader on AB name is Kade :D

You gave a pretty solid description. I have no problem with people paying money for purely cosmetic things. If people have to pay for little cosmetic differences on their ship interiors or star bases or something that have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on other content or your ability to be successful.

Yes, microtransactions bring in a lot of money, but that's because some people are willing to pay a lot of money to get an edge. To me, this destroys an MMO experience because I want skill, above all else, to win out.

Conclusion:
Microtransactions on purely cosmetic goods = fine
Microtransactions on necessary goods = game breaker, there are plenty of other games out there.

Yes, I do agree. If the items for money do give more of an edge for a player, especially a new player that could beat a ... say ... level 10 character, then that is a problem.

What does intrigue me is many posters who scream they will not play the game if they put microtransactions in. That is .... sad. But it is their choice I guess.

[jagerbolt]

Well the only thing that is keeping me from panicking is the last sentence from a Cryptic rep from the Massively article.

"At present we do not have any finalised plans for how and if these will be implemented in future releases."

Full article below.
http://www.massively.com/category/champions-online/

Came here to point out that exact same thing. It's not set in stone yet if it even makes the final cut.

Now if it does make it, I would be okay with it as others have said if it's for fluff. Cool costumes, wacky emotes, different ship customization choices, extra toon slots, sure go for it.

But I will be pretty disappointed if people can purchase things to make them more powerful in game. And may have to reconsider my STO purchase if that was the case. :(

[Arokh72]

Even if Cryptic haven't made any decisions on RMT at least they'll know how we the community feel about them.

I too am against them, no only because of lack of money and fear of those with more disposable income getting all the good gear (even if just fluff gear), but the fact with exchange rates and currency conversion fees those of us outside the US can very well be paying more than US players.

[laladiel]

as long as it doesn't interfere with me blowing stuff up indiscriminately, or jack up the monthly fee, or for some reason cause whoever is buying the stuff to become godlike in the game, i don't mind people who have the cash spending it on superficial items like a new decal for their shuttle.

[Aethelstan]

What does intrigue me is many posters who scream they will not play the game if they put microtransactions in. That is .... sad. But it is their choice I guess.

As someone who has basically done exactly that I think I should explain. Part of it is simply my views on micro-transactions even if merely for cosmetic items, part of it is fear of what the reputation of micro-transactions will do to the game is implemented.

Different people have said different things, some saying anything but gameplay affecting items would be fine, others against any form. For me the limit to which I would tolerate micro-transactions is purely cosmetic items, mostly for your character/bridge crew not your ship and only if there was a wide (and more importantly GOOD) selection of alternatives for people who would rather not.

Basically, particularly with ships as it seems like they will be a major part of our 'appearance', I think we must be able to have the style we want. I could understand some minor additions being micro-transactions, maybe certain STO original nacelle or deflector designs and such, but not designs that existed prior to STO (such as the late 23rd century style white/black nacelles, or blue deflector as two examples) and not all of the 'new' designs either.

Ultimately, there must be a wide and good choice in both character customisation, uniform and such, and ship customisation, with any micro-transactions being added extras that aren't 'better' or 'prettier' or more sort after, merely different and optional, not 'unlocking' pre-existing material we should have to start with. That is really where I draw the line and I believe this is what people mean when they mention city of heroes and costumes?

I and I think most other people who are being pretty vocal about this possibility are simply trying to get our views across to cryptic, not condemning or judging them since they haven't made a decision on fees and even if they do implement micro-transactions it may be in a way tolerable to those who dislike the system. So, if the majority of customisations, both for characters and ships are available regardless, and a small-ish selection is only through micro-transactions, I could live with that, provided nothing 'key' appearance wise is only available by paying (such as the general style of different times of ship design etc).

To put it in simple terms. If I get a Miranda looking like the first screenshot of one (all modern and full of holes), I want to be able to make that look like the Reliant in tWoK without paying.

[eneyman]

if STO is going to be free and they charge us for additional upgrades and items, I am totally cool with that. I would much rather play the game for free and actually have the freedom to continue and enjoy it rather than having a few higher level gear or equipment items, or even quests.. really. I hope Cryptic does make the game free to play, with only purchase of the game required.

[KO_Gilligan]

I'm getting more worried the longer this thread gets without some kind of comment from Cryptic...

There is a comment from Cryptic in the original article...

They put the ability for online transactions in the UI, This should not be hard to understand, and it doesn't mean anything yet... the fact that it doesn't mean anything is apparently not good enough for some people.

Honestly, this issue is no more relevant now than it was 6 months ago, and they have said that much.

If they ask me to test it with mock transactions, it still means nothing, except they are preparing their engine for this and other games and other markets in countries that prefer microtransactions.

It would be a stupid move not to put it in and test it.

[Loekii]

What does intrigue me is many posters who scream they will not play the game if they put microtransactions in. That is .... sad. But it is their choice I guess.


Speaking for myself, one of the reason it would cause me to not buy the game is simply the environment it creates.

It is like choosing to not play cards with someone that chronically cheats. I just politely decline the invitation to the card game, as it is not how I like to play cards.

I am not so starved for STO game, that I would play it no matter what. Microtransactions that give an edge are one of the few things that would turn me away.

I'm getting more worried the longer this thread gets without some kind of comment from Cryptic...

I think they cannot comment, because they have not made a firm decision either way. If they were firmly 100% against it, I think they would make a clarifying comment of some kind.

Also, given this is a heated issue, I could see PR telling them to not say it is included until the very last moment -- hoping to 'hook' (not trick) people into the game enough, that for some it wont be a deal breaker.

[KirksOtherSon]

This makes me very unhappy. I so do hope this isn't a model in ST:O.


http://www.massively.com/2009/05/08/champions-online-getting-microtransactions/

To be fair to Cryptic it might not be so bad it might just be for extra char slots and such. But it does make me very worried.

We may need more information. It may not be microtransaction in the true sense -- where you basically have to buy extra content to stay competitive.

It may be similar to City of Heroes/Villains, where certain optional content (specifically, themed costume pieces and other cosmetic or "social-only" content) was made available to those who wanted it, for a small fee.

For example, in CoH/V you could buy a "Cyborg Pack" of extra tech/cyborg costume elements to use with your character.

They didn't buff you, or do anything to improve your gameplay ability. The pack was simply to give those with specific cyborg-tech characters the option of having even more costume pieces than the hundreds the game already provided for free.

This may simply be a way of making the development time and effort spent on creating "niche market" cosmetic options -- things not in demand for the majority of the player base -- cost-effective to produce.

I'd wait until we have more information, myself,

KOS

[KO_Gilligan]

I think they cannot comment, because they have not made a firm decision either way. If they were firmly 100% against it, I think they would make a clarifying comment of some kind.



They may have made a decision. They are probably not 100% firm against anything. Why constrain yourself? What's with all the entitlement of an answer? I think they should have kept the press the heck out of Beta Testing because of this kind of nonsense exactly

But like I have repeatedly said, they gave a definite answer. As of yet their is no announced plan. Even if you threaten to hit them with a stick.

[KO_Gilligan]

We may need more information. It may not be microtransaction in the true sense -- where you basically have to buy extra content to stay competitive.

It may be similar to City of Heroes/Villains, where certain optional content (specifically, themed costume pieces and other cosmetic or "social-only" content) were made available to those who wanted it, for a small fee.

For example, in CoH/V you could buy a "Cyborg Pack" of extra tech/cyborg costume elements to use with your character.

They didn't buff you, or do anything to improve your gameplay ability. The pack was simply to give those with specific cyborg-tech characters the option of having even more costume pieces than the hundreds the game already provided for free.

This may simply be a way of making the development time and effort spent on creating "niche market" cosmetic options -- things not in demand for the majority of the player base -- cost-effective to produce.

I'd wait until we have more information, myself,

KOS

Yup

Like a poster said in the CO forums, would you rather they try to shoe horn in the ability to do transactions later? They are doing the right thing, and because the press found something they are testing in the interface, two communities are having a meltdown.

I can't believe anyone is behind Cryptic if they are eager to raise a reaction about testing something like a transaction button.

[Arokh72]

I'm just wondering if anyone has thought that maybe Cryptic "leaked" the release themselves to get an idea what the CO and now the STO community feels about micro transactions, before making a firm decision.

[KO_Gilligan]

I'm just wondering if anyone has thought that maybe Cryptic "leaked" the release themselves to get an idea what the CO and now the STO community feels about micro transactions, before making a firm decision.

I'm pretty shocked about the press reporting from Beta.

I really - really - really don't think they would do it to survey a reaction...

Maybe this IS some kind of viral strategy to introduce the idea in CO for in game tchotchkes (Yiddish for cheap showy trinket) - that's not as crazy - still seems crazy though.

I can't imagine the microtransaction model really benefiting STO, but I am not a game publisher or marketer either. I'm gonna leave it to them, I honestly don't believe the average player knows what will turn a better profit - even though we have no shortage of armchair game distributors around here :D

[SenshiBat]

That's the problem with the drive by media.. in minor press terms. They are not major Press outside the game realm.

The symbiotic relationship needed to promote something you get the leakage.
It is dangerous in the wrong hands.

The PR department has their talking points cover sheet hand out to media..

But when the inside stuff that would get an honest Beta tester ban gets out there it is a concern.
I am not claiming a double standard.. I do wish the Press NDA would have a better time stamp on it so its not leaked many months in the advance of a release as The actual game could change in the last Beta phases.

The one test drive really went down the list.. in one sitting in english..

I could split screen it with the NDA for CO and just wonder what they expect from STO that is so very much more well known even in casual circles..

It is a cultural influence across the globe.

The Intellegance saying from WWII may or may not apply.. Hopfully because "Loose Lips Shink ships"
or as to the Micro Oh, You want Wheels with that Car? I think not.. The bait and switch or similar consumer laws are in place.. Its hyperbol viral from some reporterthat played COH o V and did not tell Cryptic prior to that interviw or Testing. or the old tried and true.. Test Ballon.

[Kade]

Sadly, I cannot give an example or comment on a subject I do not know about (ie Atlantica Online). But you are correct that there are games that the microtransactions that are bought are for items that do have stats on them that can make them better over things you find in the game.

And would you happen to be a Kade from EQ2? My guild leader on AB name is Kade :D

Afraid not. While I did beta test and play EQ2 for a short while I never rolled on AB. Can't remember the server name but I have a Darkelf by the name of Khalan.

[Kade]

They may have made a decision. They are probably not 100% firm against anything. Why constrain yourself? What's with all the entitlement of an answer? I think they should have kept the press the heck out of Beta Testing because of this kind of nonsense exactly

But like I have repeatedly said, they gave a definite answer. As of yet their is no announced plan. Even if you threaten to hit them with a stick.

I don't think it's so much an "entitlement of an answer" issue as it is most gamers today frankly have had experience with most schemes by now and know what they like, don't like. I see people talking about "reserving judgment" and I'm like what? I guess they haven't played a variety of MMOs or can't read about a concept and garner an opinion about an idea. *shrug*

Anyway, like I was saying, I think most have had experience with it (MT) and know if they want to play a MT game or not. They just want to know the plan as it affects whether they continue to follow this game or not. TO expect them to not have likes/dislikes and opinions, and moreover to not stick with/stand by their informed opinions is extremely more ridiculous than them ceasing to follow a project because it introduces a part they are at odds with.

I'd say it's a pretty fair, upfront question to ask, really. :cool:

[Boombadil]

I would not like MT , I like the reg monthly fee. jus my 2 cents..

[Neshy]

Don't get me wrong, im a diehard trekkie and will play this game no matter what, but microtransactions? what good games have used it? WoW, Lotro, WAR, Galaxies, Conan, FFXI, all pay by the month.(with the exception that in wow you can play the trading card game to get purely cosmetic items.) someone mentioned possible cheap optional cosmetic items, maybe like ship customizations, uniforms, interior design aspects, etc. i could accept this but would rather not have to.

about actual items that help you...another story. if this is added people will be angered. NO good games do this, and doing it in this kind of way is horrible. make it 10-15 buks a month and be done with it. THIS GAME cannot afford to lose people due to this. lets face it, and as much as i hate to say it, trek is slowly dying. we are relying on this game and the new movie to siphon life back into the franchise. the game can exist within only the star trek community if it is only one big server, but it WILL NOT be able to compete with WoW or other MMOs.

My hope is that the movie will bring in people who dont have intrest in star trek into the mix. then this game will have a very strong chance. but back on topic, Microtransactions could possibly be accepted by us trekkies but if this was anything but trek, and it had MTs, i would not play it.

Thats my take

- Neshy

[Darthkirby707]

No.

Server changes, name changes, etc, I guess that could be passable.

But in game items? No. I hate microtransactions, and I'm in the Champions Online Beta- if microtransactions are in it, especially a game where the character's appearance is so important (no equipment, just costume), I'm not getting it. Even purely cosmetic ones.

[KO_Gilligan]

I don't think it's so much an "entitlement of an answer" issue as it is most gamers today frankly have had experience with most schemes by now and know what they like, don't like. I see people talking about "reserving judgment" and I'm like what? I guess they haven't played a variety of MMOs or can't read about a concept and garner an opinion about an idea. *shrug*

Anyway, like I was saying, I think most have had experience with it (MT) and know if they want to play a MT game or not. They just want to know the plan as it affects whether they continue to follow this game or not. TO expect them to not have likes/dislikes and opinions, and moreover to not stick with/stand by their informed opinions is extremely more ridiculous than them ceasing to follow a project because it introduces a part they are at odds with.

I'd say it's a pretty fair, upfront question to ask, really. :cool:

Ask away. Fair and upfront as it is, they gave an answer. These posts are not asking, they are overwhelmingly indicating opposition to the Microtransaction because of a UI feature seen in Beta. I think it's overreacting, and I said as much.
Overreacting is allowed around here though - so ask away.

I think it's fair that if someone posts that they expect an answer, a release date, or a promise of sorts, I can call them on it. They don't owe us anything, and I'm thanking them for keeping us up to date.

So like I said, ask away. But if you make a case for needing an answer, I'll still be here to counter ;)

[knightofhyrule730]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOO.

Devs, please give us some insight. I highly doubt I will be playing a MT game. It makes it feel like one of those dopey browser mmos that suck.

now why do i perfer a 15 per month to a maybe 4-5 every few? well i dont like thinking "man, this item will cost me $2" id rather just turn on the game and get access to everything.

[KO_Gilligan]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOO.

Devs, please give us some insight. I highly doubt I will be playing a MT game. It makes it feel like one of those dopey browser mmos that suck.

now why do i perfer a 15 per month to a maybe 4-5 every few? well i dont like thinking "man, this item will cost me $2" id rather just turn on the game and get access to everything.


Someone on the CO boards said this: >> (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=447945)

I don't think we have anything to fear with this.

I concur

even more so with STO

It really doesn't seem to fit STO - but either way we'll be better able to judge the idea after they actually implement it. But I'd be very surprised if they use that little button for much in STO - just doesnt seem to fit this game.

[DracoPalin]

I am a huge fan of ST and have been eagerly awaiting STO for years,And up till now have had full faith in Cryptic.

That being said IF they go with a MT system that pays for ANYTHING that is in game,even cosmetic items such as costume or starship hull pieces. (slots,name changes,or server moves would be fine.) I WILL NOT PLAY.

I do not want to have some jack@$$ with the extra $ to spare and only 3 hrs game play to have an advantage over me or anyone else. so I say NO to ship upgrades, NO to XP bonuses, NO to weapon or item upgrades, and NO payment for required items.

I also say NO to MT for ship interior Items (other than minor decorative choices.)

In conclusion, Cryptic..... I believe you can see based on this thread alone that a MT system will spell death for STO. I hope you can make the right choice and not ruin the chances for this game before it ever gets off the ground.

[Corehaven22]

I am a huge fan of ST and have been eagerly awaiting STO for years,And up till now have had full faith in Cryptic.

That being said IF they go with a MT system that pays for ANYTHING that is in game (slots,name changes,or server moves would be fine.) I WILL NOT PLAY.

I do not want to have some jack@$$ with the extra $ to spare and only 3 hrs game play to have an advantage over me or anyone else. so I say NO to ship upgrades, NO to XP bonuses, NO to weapon or item upgrades, and NO payment for required items.

I also say NO to MT for ship interior Items (other than minor decorative choices.)

In conclusion, Cryptic..... I believe you can see based on this thread alone that a MT system will spell death for STO. I hope you can make the right choiceand not ruin the chances for this game before it ever gets off the ground.

Well said Draco. Well said. I feel exactly the same way in every regard. :mad:

[Sumdian]

any game that has micro-transaction's in it = fail in my books and if this game has them i wont be geting it. micro-transaction's only allow kids with mum and dads CC to get the best in game gear and people like me with a few kids and a wife to sapport are screwed and can never get end game gear pls don't have micro-transaction's in STO or it will just become a nother fake MMO like guild wars is and will fail

[Deinbeck]

STO with microtransactions = same fate like hellgate:london

Hellgate was a scam of a different color :D

[Tamgros]

Just thought I'd add a link to the CO forum thread about this subject. They seem to have similar sentiments as we do.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=18104

[indigowhale345]

I remain baffled by all the illogical opposition to microtransactions. I've played those crappy free Asian MMOs with MTs. They sucked, but that had nothing to do with their money making schemes.

Did I feel nickel and dimed, though? Nope. I have the discipline to say no and not toss money at everything that crosses my path! I paid them nothing, not one taco's worth of cash. Whats so hard about not paying for things if you really feel exploited?

In the games I played, not one of the items for sale was actually necessary to play and succeed in the game. XP boosters? Nope not necessary. Mounts? Nope. Some item that recovers more loot or salvage or whatever? Nope, still not necessary. Quick access to high quality armor/weapons that I can get elsewhere in the game? Nope, I'll just get it like every other MMO, earn the gold and buy it from an NPC/player. Seriously, what is ever offered that is necessary in these types of games?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with MTs. They can be setup such that they offer little to affect gameplay. I mean wow, in CoX you can get a handful of unique costume selections and some powers with specious usefulness. Wow. Out of like 2000 different parts, you can buy maybe 20 more. That's SOOO unfair isn't it? Out of say, 60 different powers you can buy maybe 4 more, none of which could ever replace an archetype power.

No one in CoX complains about haves and have nots. No one demands you to have those extra content packs. Its a total non-issue in CoX.

I don't understand the vehement hate of MTs. I understand that some implementations are truly terrible, and I'm not going to say that Cryptic can do no wrong here either. But really, why is it so hard to wait and see what Cryptic comes up with, instead of threatening to quit the game over a very vague word, "microtransactions"?

[Loekii]

Just thought I'd add a link to the CO forum thread about this subject. They seem to have similar sentiments as we do.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=18104

Yet there still is no Cryptic comment about the 'Leak'. Not even simply acknowledging the article, which seems to imply some credibility to the leak. If it were 100% bogus, I would have expected the PR department to correct the information (like if they said CO was going to cost $25/mo.

[Aegross]

Microtransactions:eek::eek:?Isn't that for crappy chinese MMO's?
Please don't embarras the ST franchise this way,otherwise Cryptic wouldn't be worthy the license to make this MMO in my opinion.

[Beaver8]

Maybe they just have the weekend off because of mothers day and won't comment until monday or tuesday.

[Meehile]

I am against any form of microtransaction, even for fluff items. I can live with that as long as microtransactions don't become necessary to reach endgame, be top geared, have the best ship, etc. I will not play this game if micros are necessary for progression.

[USS_Parallax]

Wait and see wait and see. I'll just be doing that. Time to move on until I actually see what they do with it.

[Awarkle]

the thing is with Microtransactions there is a view that if a game has to go the route of being free to play with microtransactions the game has effectivly failed.

As for declaring that you will not be playing if it goes the microtransaction route is a bit harsh, its already been proven to be a viable model with a lot of companies looking towards it as a way of making extra funds of already existing games.

Look at the XBOX live system you can buy extra levels / or costumes for games you already owne. I mean ive got fallout3 on the xbox but im not upset that they have released added content that i pay to play. thats only fair someone has had to sit down and make all that content up.

I do suspect that both champions online and STO will be microtransactions based around, character names, server transfers (unless its just one server) character slots and costumes.

I dont think cryptic will say, well if you want to use the prometheus then give us 5 dollars/pounds. I suspect it will be along the lines of if you want to activate a holodeck program such as khan or so forth or TOS style uniforms.

however i do sort of agree i wont be playing a microtransaction game i end up spending WAY more than what i would on a 15 pound a month one.

[Kade]

Maybe they just have the weekend off because of mothers day and won't comment until monday or tuesday.

At this point in time any comment will most likely be that they have no comment as they have not finalized payment options for the game.

[k.mpok]

I have never been a fan of microtransactions for anything other then cosmetic items. Anything else just kills the game play for me. :(

[Evi1Genius]

Micro transactions are great and if it has no subscription fees the better.

look on the bright side:

Cryptic gets to introduce that idea they had wanted with STO for the holodeck thing. Go inside the holodeck and request Champions online. Fantastic idea playing games inside a game. You could then have Champion players use a special skill to open up a new dimension portal thing called STO. If that can work then the user base for both games are potentially doubled :D

In-game stores can do this and if it works Cryptic can link up other MMO games if they wanted, it could also cut piracy.

But how can Cyprtic do that if the majority of MMO players are not able to pay monthly fees for more than one MMO game at any one time?
Since that is the case in-game stores will do fine.

[Loekii]

Micro transactions are great and if it has no subscription fees the better.



The thing is, I doubt if they would go with the 'no subscription fee'. US MMORPGS tend to have a subscription fee of $15.99/mo.

So the Micro-transaction costs would be above and beyond that price.

[Dext]

If they did something like this for STO I would not even buy the game.

All this sets is the haves an the have nots. An right now I would have the cash to do this but I do not play games that do have this set of payment in place.

An with STO being Star Trek it would be funny to see them use that in the game.

[Dext]

The thing is, I doubt if they would go with the 'no subscription fee'. US MMORPGS tend to have a subscription fee of $15.99/mo.

So the Micro-transaction costs would be above and beyond that price.

Yep I am with you an you also have to remember the people that will not play if they did this.

[Chillee]

I remain baffled by all the illogical opposition to microtransactions. I've played those crappy free Asian MMOs with MTs. They sucked, but that had nothing to do with their money making schemes.

Did I feel nickel and dimed, though? Nope. I have the discipline to say no and not toss money at everything that crosses my path! I paid them nothing, not one taco's worth of cash. Whats so hard about not paying for things if you really feel exploited?

In the games I played, not one of the items for sale was actually necessary to play and succeed in the game. XP boosters? Nope not necessary. Mounts? Nope. Some item that recovers more loot or salvage or whatever? Nope, still not necessary. Quick access to high quality armor/weapons that I can get elsewhere in the game? Nope, I'll just get it like every other MMO, earn the gold and buy it from an NPC/player. Seriously, what is ever offered that is necessary in these types of games?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with MTs. They can be setup such that they offer little to affect gameplay. I mean wow, in CoX you can get a handful of unique costume selections and some powers with specious usefulness. Wow. Out of like 2000 different parts, you can buy maybe 20 more. That's SOOO unfair isn't it? Out of say, 60 different powers you can buy maybe 4 more, none of which could ever replace an archetype power.

No one in CoX complains about haves and have nots. No one demands you to have those extra content packs. Its a total non-issue in CoX.

I don't understand the vehement hate of MTs. I understand that some implementations are truly terrible, and I'm not going to say that Cryptic can do no wrong here either. But really, why is it so hard to wait and see what Cryptic comes up with, instead of threatening to quit the game over a very vague word, "microtransactions"?

I concur. Besides, if it allows for a decent second revenue stream to allow for the long term success and viability of STO as a game, I am all for it. Perhaps this will then get us our expansion for interiors faster. How would people feel about that? You can get your interior expansion module delivered faster? Hah.

[ngille]

Yet there still is no Cryptic comment about the 'Leak'. Not even simply acknowledging the article, which seems to imply some credibility to the leak. If it were 100% bogus, I would have expected the PR department to correct the information (like if they said CO was going to cost $25/mo.

Rarely if ever do cryptic post on weekends. I would expect something first thing Monday morning, especially with the attention this thread is getting. I won't panic about this just yet, but to be honest I do have that sense of forboding.

[Dext]

I concur. Besides, if it allows for a decent second revenue stream to allow for the long term success and viability of STO as a game, I am all for it. Perhaps this will then get us our expansion for interiors faster. How would people feel about that? You can get your interior expansion module delivered faster? Hah.

Things would not get done faster with this kind of pay. It takes time to make thing that is why it will not gen in from day one. an Yes most MT payment games are not needed items like clothing that has some art work on it but for a game like this where there is quest an a some what lvling in the game they would be hard purest to get a lot of people to pay for items.

An they would charge us every where they could. all you died in pvp that will be $5:00 Bucks to get new crew. an most people that would get the game would only get what free items the game come with. an I should also add that most games that do this are free to get you do not even have to pay for the game.

[KO_Gilligan]

I remain baffled by all the illogical opposition to microtransactions. I've played those crappy free Asian MMOs with MTs. They sucked, but that had nothing to do with their money making schemes.

Did I feel nickel and dimed, though? Nope. I have the discipline to say no and not toss money at everything that crosses my path! I paid them nothing, not one taco's worth of cash. Whats so hard about not paying for things if you really feel exploited?

In the games I played, not one of the items for sale was actually necessary to play and succeed in the game. XP boosters? Nope not necessary. Mounts? Nope. Some item that recovers more loot or salvage or whatever? Nope, still not necessary. Quick access to high quality armor/weapons that I can get elsewhere in the game? Nope, I'll just get it like every other MMO, earn the gold and buy it from an NPC/player. Seriously, what is ever offered that is necessary in these types of games?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with MTs. They can be setup such that they offer little to affect gameplay. I mean wow, in CoX you can get a handful of unique costume selections and some powers with specious usefulness. Wow. Out of like 2000 different parts, you can buy maybe 20 more. That's SOOO unfair isn't it? Out of say, 60 different powers you can buy maybe 4 more, none of which could ever replace an archetype power.

No one in CoX complains about haves and have nots. No one demands you to have those extra content packs. Its a total non-issue in CoX.

I don't understand the vehement hate of MTs. I understand that some implementations are truly terrible, and I'm not going to say that Cryptic can do no wrong here either. But really, why is it so hard to wait and see what Cryptic comes up with, instead of threatening to quit the game over a very vague word, "microtransactions"?

Very nice post. I'm really thinking you are spot on....

Are you really baffled by this? We've seen hundreds of these threads of:

"Don't do it.... Or DOOM will come to Cryptic"

fine

k thx bye

After reading your post, and the lack of any reasonable conclusion why they shouldn't, I'm starting to think they should get a little Cryptic store feature working right away. Pump some revenue into this thing with silly trinket purchases. I honestly don't think it's a game killer. The vocal majority of wingnuts have spoken, and hereby convinced me...

I've converted to pro-microtransaction.

[Corehaven22]

Very nice post. I'm really thinking you are spot on....

Are you really baffled by this? We've seen hundreds of these threads of:

"Don't do it.... Or DOOM will come to Cryptic"

fine

k thx bye

After reading your post, and the lack of any reasonable conclusion why they shouldn't, I'm starting to think they should make that litlle Cryptic store feature work right away. Pump some revenue into this thing with silly trinket purchases. I honestly don't think it's a game killer. The vocal majority of wingnuts have spoken, and hereby convinced me...

I've converted to pro-microtransaction.

Just because a lot of people are against it? You rebel you! :p

Micro transactions will hurt STO. Because so many folks are against it. Nobodys going to go crazy if they arent in the game. But plenty will if they are. So for Cryptics sake, and for the prosperity of this game, I hope they dont.

Besides, like Ive already said a hundred times, micro transactions could turn STO into the mall parking lot carnival. It should be a top notch amusement park. Not a bunch of carnies trying to nickle and dime me for a bunch of un needed extras.

I respect Cryptic trying to be different and innovative. Thats what good games are about. But lets leave the payment system alone, and micro transactions out. WoW has over 2 million players. Cryptic, if anything, should just model their payment plan after theirs. If it works, use it. And it works very very well. Lets not muddy everything up, and by doing so, ticking off thousands of players. Sure some will like it, or not mind it. But most are likely to hate it. And thats bad for everyone, including Cryptic.

[KO_Gilligan]

Just because a lot of people are against it? You rebel you! :p

Micro transactions will hurt STO. Because so many folks are against it. Nobodys going to go crazy if they arent in the game. But plenty will if they are. So for Cryptics sake, and for the prosperity of this game, I hope they dont.

Besides, like Ive already said a hundred times, micro transactions could turn STO into the mall parking lot carnival. It should be a top notch amusement park. Not a bunch of carnies trying to nickle and dime me for a bunch of un needed extras.

I respect Cryptic trying to be different and innovative. Thats what good games are about. But lets leave the payment system alone, and micro transactions out. WoW has over 2 million players. Cryptic, if anything, should just model their payment plan after theirs. If it works, use it. And it works very very well. Lets not muddy everything up, and by doing so, ticking off thousands of players. Sure some will like it, or not mind it. But most are likely to hate it. And thats bad for everyone, including Cryptic.

Your post is just like so many others though... mostly assumptions about how the mainstream will react.

Even more far fetched is the idea that the game will be so much fail and change it so drastically if people can purchase a few things in game. You have this analogy of a High-Class Theme Park and a Carnival.
Black and White. Right and Wrong. But I see it as selling some extra unnecessary amenities. Theme parks do it.

How could it change the game that much... it's rediculous. Like the poster I quoted said, surely it could be done wrong, but in some games that have a few items of added content, the mechanic is hardly noticed.

Ever buy a $24.99 disposable camera at a theme park, or a $6.00 Coke at the movie? Everyone in the theater will tell you "It's Wrong" if it were a video game they would probably cry "I'm not playing it!"

My understanding is that if movies didn't have concession stands they would be operating at zero or less revenue after paying for the movie and the building alone.

MMOs come and go. There are a lot of things that could kill this game. A few worthy microtransactions is not one of them.

But the game could fall under it's own weight like so many do... and why? not usually because a feature was broke, or pvp sucked, or this feature was missing... that's what people claim... but they failed because it takes big revenue to keep them from failing.

How many think a $6.00 Coke is innovating? Well it is necessary innovation. Either way, it's not a movie killer. Just drink water if you don't like it. You can still enjoy the show just as well as anyone else who paid admission.

[Corehaven22]

Your post is just like so many others though... mostly assumptions about how the mainstream will react.

Even more far fetched is the idea that the game will be so much fail and change it so drastically if people can purchase a few things in game. You have this analogy of a High-Class Theme Park and a Carnival.
Black and White. Right and Wrong. But I see it as selling some extra unnecessary amenities. Theme parks do it.

How could it change the game that much... it's rediculous. Like the poster I quoted said, surely it could be done wrong, but in some games that have a few items of added content, the mechanic is hardly noticed.

Ever buy a $24.99 disposable camera at a theme park, or a $6.00 Coke at the movie? Everyone in the theater will tell you "It's Wrong" if it were a video game they would probably cry "I'm not playing it!"

My understanding is that if movies didn't have concession stands they would be operating at zero or less revenue after paying for the movie and the building alone.

MMOs come and go. There are a lot of things that could kill this game. A few worthy microtransactions is not one of them.

But the game could fall under it's own weight like so many do... and why? not usually because a feature was broke, or pvp sucked, or this feature was missing... that's what people claim... but they failed because it takes big revenue to keep them from failing.

How many think a $6.00 Coke is innovating? Well it is necessary innovation. Either way, it's not a movie killer. Just drink water if you don't like it. You can still enjoy the show just aswell as anyone else who paid admission.

Oh its not about buying 6.00 for a coke, or a camera. Its about paying 10.00 to see the PREVIEWS that come before the movie. Or .50 cents to see the credits. Or 3.00 to see the last ten minutes of the movie.

Its about a theme park where you get to RIDE all the stuff there because you already paid admission, or instead being charged about a fourth as much for every ride they have. If I want to ride the mega roller coaster ten times I can. But at a carnival, I have to pay 4 bucks a turn.

Last time I went to Six Flags I spent about 30 bucks. Had a great time. Last time I went to a carnival I spent around 50. And it sucked. A lot.

Hey, you're entitled to your own opinion. But where do the transactions stop? I see myself dishing out more cash....and more cash....and more cash. I BOUGHT the game. I PAID my monthly fee. Okay, thats where I stop.

Anyone who wants micro transactions likely want them because they know they can afford to pay for all the extra stuff too. Hopefully giving them an edge over others (cause they have more money. Not because they did anything in game to deserve it), or it gives them a swell way to show off.

IF you support this, I also dont think you're going to give a darn if they dont include it. But a lot of folks arent going to like it. There was a poll made recently on the subject. Go read it. Customers need a good deal and need to be made somewhat happy, at least with the way they pay to play.

[Fluxion]

Not a threat...just stating a fact: If Champions Online (or Star Trek Online) is setup in a way where you need them in order to experience part of the game, I won't be playing. MTs are a way for those with a lot of money to have an advantage over those who do not, and for those without a lot of money to still be able to experience a gimped version of the game.

No thanks.

[Kade]

Not a threat...just stating a fact: If Champions Online (or Star Trek Online) is setup in a way where you need them in order to experience part of the game, I won't be playing. MTs are a way for those with a lot of money to have an advantage over those who do not, and for those without a lot of money to still be able to experience a gimped version of the game.

No thanks.

Just wanted to point this out/highlight it. Many in this thread in an attempt to seem "advanced in thought" have been quick to label gamers who have understanding of what MT are and don't like them as "threatening" Cryptic. Well, sorry. It's just as Fluxion says: "just stating a fact". I don't see why some want to try and drum up some drama behind it. It is what it is, and last I checked people were still free to state their opinions in a respectful manner. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you have right to make them out as hysterical or chicken littles, etc.

Before you play a game, be it cards, a boardgame, tag, whatever, you want to know the rules of the game. It's then you decide if you want to play the game or not. Same principle here.

Personally, I very much want to play this game. I've played a few MT games done in various ways and I can say from experience I'd rather pay a monthly fee and have time be the barrier between me and the in-game items, customizations, etc. Make a full on expansion pack for new items, not the little mini-content packages I think SOE did with EQ2.

I'm really not for the gimmicks. Just looking for a solid western made MMO with a monthly fee and expansions every year or so. No other "innovative" purchasing gimmicks.

[Chillee]

Well, we will see. I suspect MT will be in it, and all of you worrying about it will go along in the end... because it may be the only way to play in the Star trek universe.

The likelihood is greater since consoles like XBox 360 and PS3 are very much ready to support microtransactions with XBox Live and PSN. So, unless only the users of consoles are allowed MT (can you imagine that, snooty computer users at a disadvantage over their poor, "immature" console bretheren), you would think it would be in the PC version as well.

I do think MT, if a part of the game, needs to be included right away (since console release for STO will come later).

[Loekii]

Well, we will see. I suspect MT will be in it, and all of you worrying about it will go along in the end... because it may be the only way to play in the Star trek universe.

Speaking for myself, I don't *need* to play in a Star Trek Universe. It just is not that important to me, that I would play a game I don't really enjoy.

SWG was the only 'Star Wars' mmo, and I walked away from that game in the first month, without looking back.

[dinendae]

Again, hopefully it will be like other MMOs where the things you can buy don't really affect the game all that much.

Name changes
Additional character slots (we'd probably have a GOOD amount to start out with)
Server transfers (if there's one server this won't be likely)
Character move (to another account under the same name)
Character re-customization (plastic surgery)

etc etc

I don't really see these items as micro transactions myself; In the couple of micro transaction games I have tried you paid for better equipment, etc. Most MMOs eventually have some of the features listed above become available eventually, without being micro transaction games.

We may need more information. It may not be microtransaction in the true sense -- where you basically have to buy extra content to stay competitive.

It may be similar to City of Heroes/Villains, where certain optional content (specifically, themed costume pieces and other cosmetic or "social-only" content) was made available to those who wanted it, for a small fee.

For example, in CoH/V you could buy a "Cyborg Pack" of extra tech/cyborg costume elements to use with your character.

They didn't buff you, or do anything to improve your gameplay ability. The pack was simply to give those with specific cyborg-tech characters the option of having even more costume pieces than the hundreds the game already provided for free.

This may simply be a way of making the development time and effort spent on creating "niche market" cosmetic options -- things not in demand for the majority of the player base -- cost-effective to produce.

I'd wait until we have more information, myself,

KOS

See, that's the thing though; when MMOs first came out, people complained about the monthly fee. It was explained that the fee paid for not only upkeep but also new content (even if it was months at a time before any type of content was released). If Cryptic (or any other MMO company) needs more money for the content (something the monthly fee is supposed to be paying for), then they need to increase the monthly fee slightly. However I am going to have a hard time buying any argument that they need micro transactions to pay for creating all this new content, considering the very short development cycle of STO.

As for new content created after launch? CoH regularly releases new free content, as does LotRO and others. If operating costs have risen to the point where $15 subscription fees no longer cover expenses, then raise the monthly fee. I'll buy the game and play the free 30 day period that comes with it. If I don't feel the game is worth $17-20 a month, then I will not pay the fee and will move on.

[Corehaven22]

I don't really see these items as micro transactions myself; In the couple of micro transaction games I have tried you paid for better equipment, etc. Most MMOs eventually have some of the features listed above become available eventually, without being micro transaction games.



See, that's the thing though; when MMOs first came out, people complained about the monthly fee. It was explained that the fee paid for not only upkeep but also new content (even if it was months at a time before any type of content was released). If Cryptic (or any other MMO company) needs more money for the content (something the monthly fee is supposed to be paying for), then they need to increase the monthly fee slightly. However I am going to have a hard time buying any argument that they need micro transactions to pay for creating all this new content, considering the very short development cycle of STO.

As for new content created after launch? CoH regularly releases new free content, as does LotRO and others. If operating costs have risen to the point where $15 subscription fees no longer cover expenses, then raise the monthly fee. I'll buy the game and play the free 30 day period that comes with it. If I don't feel the game is worth $17-20 a month, then I will not pay the fee and will move on.

Absolutely. Awsome post.

[starwind99]

I have a sever dislike for Micro-transactions Their is no good reason in my opinion for their existence. I also dont see why people complain about paying Monthly fees when it basically boils down to 50 cents a day. Too add I dont necessarly think 15 bucks is the best price for a monthly fee for once id like to pay 10.

[dinendae]

Personally, I very much want to play this game. I've played a few MT games done in various ways and I can say from experience I'd rather pay a monthly fee and have time be the barrier between me and the in-game items, customizations, etc. Make a full on expansion pack for new items, not the little mini-content packages I think SOE did with EQ2.

I really hated what SOE did with those adventure packs, especially considering you were paying a monthly fee as well.

[Tamgros]

Well, we will see. I suspect MT will be in it, and all of you worrying about it will go along in the end... because it may be the only way to play in the Star trek universe.


Speaking for myself, I don't *need* to play in a Star Trek Universe. It just is not that important to me, that I would play a game I don't really enjoy.

SWG was the only 'Star Wars' mmo, and I walked away from that game in the first month, without looking back.

Exactly. I think the ST universe is a great place for an MMO. That doesn't make it necessary to play. I can watch one of the hundreds of episodes if I get more enjoyment from them than I do than STO. STO needs to be a good game, it won't last if it's not good.

And yes, the pay structure plays inot that. I am looking to play games with friends. There is no way I can encourage a bunch of my friends to play a game that highlights differences in their socioeconomic status. I cannot do it and will find another game to play with my friends if need be. It's that simple...

[Sjet]

Well, we will see. I suspect MT will be in it, and all of you worrying about it will go along in the end... because it may be the only way to play in the Star trek universe.

The likelihood is greater since consoles like XBox 360 and PS3 are very much ready to support microtransactions with XBox Live and PSN. So, unless only the users of consoles are allowed MT (can you imagine that, snooty computer users at a disadvantage over their poor, "immature" console bretheren), you would think it would be in the PC version as well.

I do think MT, if a part of the game, needs to be included right away (since console release for STO will come later).

Actually, most trek players are very social with other Trekkies. If the game has MT, word will spread fast and besides the people that give the game a shot, many that oppose will probably just mark it off as another failed Trek game.

[Kade]

Exactly. I think the ST universe is a great place for an MMO. That doesn't make it necessary to play. I can watch one of the hundreds of episodes if I get more enjoyment from them than I do than STO. STO needs to be a good game, it won't last if it's not good.

And yes, the pay structure plays inot that. I am looking to play games with friends. There is no way I can encourage a bunch of my friends to play a game that highlights differences in their socioeconomic status. I cannot do it and will find another game to play with my friends if need be. It's that simple...

If true, this would be the irony of all ironies. Star Trek, in specific the Federation, did away with such differences. Would make an interesting talking point in a review, no?

[Tamgros]

If true, this would be the irony of all ironies. Star Trek, in specific the Federation, did away with such differences. Would make an interesting talking point in a review, no?

Yeah, haha, i pointed out as much, but just paraphrased here. Microtransfers that highlighted socioeconomic status in any way would go against very central tenants of the federation.

I mean, there are arguments about whether there should be a monetary system in in STO at all. So yeah, some MT systems would pretty surely be doomed to fail in STO.

[Chillee]

Actually, most trek players are very social with other Trekkies. If the game has MT, word will spread fast and besides the people that give the game a shot, many that oppose will probably just mark it off as another failed Trek game.

Assumptions based on your bias against MT. Why don't we wait to see how Cryptic does it?

[indigowhale345]

I don't really see these items as micro transactions myself; In the couple of micro transaction games I have tried you paid for better equipment, etc. Most MMOs eventually have some of the features listed above become available eventually, without being micro transaction games.



But those are microtransactions, by definition. CoX has regular free updates, but it also has microtransactions for various powers and costume options. A taco by any other name is still a taco.

No, you can't pay real money and get purple recipes/enhancements or inf. or levels or XP boosters or whatever (at least not from NCsoft). But that doesn't make it any less a microtransaction. CoX is not free to play. It does not depend on MTs. But it does have them. They are designed not to create any real enmity or give a serious advantage to the paying players, yet they are still MTs.

Anarchy Online recently adopted MTs. Its debatable whether their expansions could be considered MTs since unlike other MMOs, you have to pay for them, but now they have started offering some extra vehicles for a little bit of real money. It doesn't change the balance of power in the game, or give anyone a real serious advantage. There are plenty of other vehicles available in game that can be bought with in game currency, and function little different than these paid vehicles. There isn't a serious advantage to having these vehicles over the other ones you can get.


I honestly don't know how to say it loud enough, but the bottom line is, no, putting in microtransactions does not instantly create something identical to a crappy free to play Asian MMO.


Microtransactions also have zero to do with anyone's socioeconomic status. You either have disposable income to dump on MTs or you do not, which is purely economic. Its not relevant whether you drive a bike or a car or a plane to work. Its not relevant whether you have a PhD or a GED. It doesn't matter if your friends all have PhDs or are all dropouts. None of those factors are relevant once you're online. You either have spare cash to waste on MTs or you don't. More importantly though, you either have the will to say no to stuff you don't need, or you spend anyways because you fall for the illusion that you need it to keep pace. You don't need it, whatever it is.

[Corehaven22]

Microtransactions also have zero to do with anyone's socioeconomic status. You either have disposable income to dump on MTs or you do not, which is purely economic. Its not relevant whether you drive a bike or a car or a plane to work. Its not relevant whether you have a PhD or a GED. It doesn't matter if your friends all have PhDs or are all dropouts. None of those factors are relevant once you're online. You either have spare cash to waste on MTs or you don't. More importantly though, you either have the will to say no to stuff you don't need, or you spend anyways because you fall for the illusion that you need it to keep pace. You don't need it, whatever it is.

I think the point that a lot of other people have made here is that they dont want to play a game like that. In general, I think just about everyone would rather have content added for the sake of making players happy and interested. Not to make an extra buck. Typically, no, your social / economic status doesnt have any affect on the MMO's you play. Oh yea....except when micro transactions involving game content come into play.

Im very happy to go out and buy an expansion pack. And Im happy to buy the game, and pay a monthly fee. Thats where it ends with me. And a LOT of other folks. We dont want to be nickle and dimed for content. Period. Because we already PAID for the game. Its a rip off. Content should be added to an MMO because it makes the game BETTER, and provides more interest for the player. Its about retaining players. Not charging them more for the little things. Those things should be available to everyone who has already PAID. Not just to those people who dont mind paying MORE.

Its a jip. A rip off. Not good business. It creates jealousy and disdain in players who either cant, or dont want to dish out more cash for some of the options. MOST MMO's dont bother with microtransaction for in game content. There's probably a good reason for that. There are better ways to make money. Yea some do, but they're not ultra popular and or even popular. And probably never will be. Yea....there's a reason for that too. Im sure it goes beyond micro transactions, but I doubt micro transactions helped any.

[Inquizitor]

I am wary of this idea. IF they do it the CoH way....eh. Even then I don't think it is apropriate for a new game. It's something you roll out in a few years as a content update. When you do this right at launch it doesn't jive with me.

another model I would be all for is the Wizard101 model. Pay as you lpay if you choose to do that, and I do. Alternativly you have the monthly fee if you prefer that route.

[USS_Parallax]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't CoX add those insane microtransactions ($10 for a respec and stuff that affects the game a bit) AFTER it was bought from Cryptic?

[dinendae]

But those are microtransactions, by definition. CoX has regular free updates, but it also has microtransactions for various powers and costume options. A taco by any other name is still a taco.

Actually, no they're not microtransactions; most of those options cost $20-50 in most games, there's nothing micro about that cost. Microtransactions charge you a small amount of money in exchange for an in game benefit, such as items, exclusive custimization options, etc. that usually sell for a couple dollars or less. An example of this would be EQ2's adventure packs, which added an adventure/small dungeon (with exclusive items that could only be acquired with said adventure pack). If microtransactions meant extra character slots, server transfers, or character transfers, then most here wouldn't have a problem with them. As I said before, these are fairly standard in MMOs now. As for CoX, I didn't know about the microtransactions they introduced; I stopped playing shortly after the Inventions system was introduced.

No, you can't pay real money and get purple recipes/enhancements or inf. or levels or XP boosters or whatever (at least not from NCsoft). But that doesn't make it any less a microtransaction. CoX is not free to play. It does not depend on MTs. But it does have them. They are designed not to create any real enmity or give a serious advantage to the paying players, yet they are still MTs.

Serious impact on gameplay or not, they do cause some hard feelings with those who can't afford the extra options.

Anarchy Online recently adopted MTs. Its debatable whether their expansions could be considered MTs since unlike other MMOs, you have to pay for them, but now they have started offering some extra vehicles for a little bit of real money. It doesn't change the balance of power in the game, or give anyone a real serious advantage. There are plenty of other vehicles available in game that can be bought with in game currency, and function little different than these paid vehicles. There isn't a serious advantage to having these vehicles over the other ones you can get.

If it's content you pay for (more than just single adventure/short story arc), most people consider it an expansion. If you don't pay for it, it's a (free) content update. If you're talking about what they call the booster packs, that's a microtransaction along the same lines as EQ2's adventure packs. Perhaps in that case the microtransaction may not make any real difference (other than a bit of resentment from those who can't get it), but that is not always the case (and not just with the Korean MMOs).


I honestly don't know how to say it loud enough, but the bottom line is, no, putting in microtransactions does not instantly create something identical to a crappy free to play Asian MMO. QUOTE]

I (and some others) aren't saying that it will either, we are just stating that we don't want to see microtransactions in STO. We have also given an alternate method for Cryptic to increase revenue (raising the monthly fee a modest amount). Here's another: If they absolutely want to sell new content, then save it all until there's enough to release an actual expansion. You don't have a problem with microtransactions. Fine, that's your view. Others do have a problem with them, either through word of mouth or experience, and don't want to see them in the game. You have expressed your view on the subject, and so have we.

[QUOTE=Captain Bob]Microtransactions also have zero to do with anyone's socioeconomic status. You either have disposable income to dump on MTs or you do not, which is purely economic. Its not relevant whether you drive a bike or a car or a plane to work. Its not relevant whether you have a PhD or a GED. It doesn't matter if your friends all have PhDs or are all dropouts. None of those factors are relevant once you're online. You either have spare cash to waste on MTs or you don't. More importantly though, you either have the will to say no to stuff you don't need, or you spend anyways because you fall for the illusion that you need it to keep pace. You don't need it, whatever it is.

Do you realize that you have contradicted your own argument?

[QUOTE=Captain Bob]Microtransactions also have zero to do with anyone's socioeconomic status. You either have disposable income to dump on MTs or you do not, which is purely economic.

The rest of that paragraph was largely irrelevant, but the above quote (my bolds for emphasis) makes it fall apart. It has everything to do with one's socioeconomic status. You create an atmosphere of haves and have nots. You have the people with the cash who can afford to buy in game items with real cash and those who can't. You will have some feelings of resentment and envy because of that (not everyone will feel that way, but some will).

Finally, you seem to be jumping to one specific conclusion in your arguments; you seem to think that everyone speaking out against miscrotransactions are just speaking out against purely cosmetic changes. This is untrue, and a review of the preceeding posts will show that. A lot of the people posting against microtransactions are willing to accept microtransactions that are used to purchase cosmetic changes only. Sure there might be some have/have not issues involved, but there's a lot of posters willing to at least tolerate them. The point is that we don't know what microtransactions Cryptic may be intending to introduce. It could be merely cosmetic changes. It also could be special items that actually enhance gameplay. It is the latter version of microtransactions that many do not want to see (granted, some don't want any at all).

[Kade]

Assumptions based on your bias against MT. Why don't we wait to see how Cryptic does it?

No worse than your assumption that everyone concerned will just play anyway based on your belief that if it doesn't bother you it shouldn't bother anyone else.

But yes, we should wait and see if Cryptic does it.

[indigowhale345]

We can go back and forth arguing about what defines microtransactions, but I understand that's not the real point. There are perceptions surrounding MTs that I'm trying to dispel, because I hold them to be false and imaginary, that is what I'm trying to argue against. I'm not trying to get everyone to vote for microtransactions, and I'm not trying to argue against everyone who doesn't want them for any reason. I personally don't want to see MTs either, since I almost certainly won't use them. But I know from experience they won't have a serious effect on the game either way.

Some people don't want the feeling of "haves" and "have nots", but I have yet to play a game where that was even true. The games I have played have had people who spent more money, and people who did not, yet they would both be at the same place at the endgame. If anything, the illusion could just as easily be attributed to the "original" time issue, where one has a lot more time than the other, and thus can play more to get more. Both types were equally capable of getting to the maximum level, the best items, and getting rich in the in game economy.

Yes the people who spent more may have gotten there faster or easier, but I find that irrelevant. The potential for both is the same in the games I have played, and in some of the games even cash shop items are acquirable by people who don't put down real money for them through in game trading. I don't know of any big name games where MT items give the paying player a real edge.

Keep in mind here that every game with "gold sellers" essentially has a MT marketplace, even if its not officially sanctioned (And there is always the real suspicion that many 'gold sellers' are actually fronts for the game company to draw in extra income.). Many may complain that it gives the buyer an edge, yet what does it really give them when they buy everything they want and get to the maximum level? They are just like everyone else who worked to get there. They really aren't any different or better, they just traded money for time.

But as I alluded to, the exact same feelings exist in every other standard MMO between "haves" and "have nots", where people who either have more time, or use their time more efficiently have more. I remember plenty of people whining constantly about not having enough credits or nanotacos or whatever in AO. Everyone always wants the best loot. No one wants to work hard for it. But more often than not it goes to who spent more time to get the credits for it, the raids for it, or who farmed it more.

The end result, whether its cash or time, if you put in more, you get out more, and there will be those that resent it. There will always be people who resent success, who feel like they aren't getting a fair shake, but that doesn't mean its true. Microtransactions give a very visible outlet for those kind of feelings. And to be real clear, you can have whatever feelings you want, the point is, they are just unfounded because you can get there too without an investment of (extra) money.



Now yes, I've been focusing on a big assumption that MT's won't be much more than fluff or something like XP or loot boosting items. Why? Firstly, because they don't alter the playing field. It is level at the top end where anyone can get there with time. And second, I feel fine making that assumption because I'm not aware of any big name game that uses anything that would create a truly unlevel playing field. This is STO, its not even in beta yet and these forums are more active than tons of released games! Its a mainstream game.

I can entirely agree with and understand anyone who doesn't want to see something like account locked cash shop ships which are tougher and stronger than the top free/subscription only ships. But I don't believe there is any real chance that we will ever see anything like that in STO, which is why I make the assumption. Of course its all wait and see, but I do believe that its fair to assume that a maxed out ship will be equivalent to any other maxed out ship, no matter how much money someone has put into the game.



Now the final point I have to make again since I didn't make it clear enough is that "socioeconomic" is not the word to use. You either have the money or you don't. You either spend it or you don't. It is entirely economic. Socioeconomic and economic are not synonyms because there is a separate social element. It doesn't matter who you know, who you work with, who you talk with when you want to buy MTs. That social element is irrelevant for discussing whether you can or can't purchase MTs. Its really just nitpicking semantics here.

[TruthSeer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't CoX add those insane microtransactions ($10 for a respec and stuff that affects the game a bit) AFTER it was bought from Cryptic?

I was actually just going to ask that. From what I remember the only time CoH asked you for more money under Cryptic's reign was when City of Villains was released and if you wanted those updates you had to buy the game. But then again that was a stand alone game that worked with CoH.

[Corehaven22]

Captain Bob. Nobody said we needed Micro transactions explained to us. I think we all know what they are. That doesnt change the fact I dont want to see them in STO. Or any other game for that mattter.

Nothing you have said in the giant pointless wall of text you just provided is going to change anyones mind whatsoever, or even enlighten anyone as to the subject matter. Pretty darn pointless.

Some of us just hold the opinion that "fluff", game additions, all that stuff that might be involved in MTs should be given to everyone in the game. Because the way I look at it, I already paid for it. Thats what my monthly fee is for. So the devs can continue to work on new content and maintain the server and game world.

Have or have nots really doesnt matter to me. Its the fact that I have ALREADY paid for all content. I bought the game, I pay a monthly fee. The monthly fee is for any new content that arises. Thats why Im paying it. And happily so.

When MTs are involved its a result of devs adding content for extra bucks. Not to make the game better. Not to improve or build upon it. Just for some extra cash. Again, like Ive said before, its a rip off. Its cheap. Nothing is going to change my opinion of that.

[Evertras]

Captain Bob. Nobody said we needed Micro transactions explained to us. I think we all know what they are. That doesnt change the fact I dont want to see them in STO. Or any other game for that mattter.

Nothing you have said in the giant pointless wall of text you just provided is going to change anyones mind whatsoever, or even enlighten anyone as to the subject matter. Pretty darn pointless.

Some of us just hold the opinion that "fluff", game additions, all that stuff that might be involved in MTs should be given to everyone in the game. Because the way I look at it, I already paid for it. Thats what my monthly fee is for. So the devs can continue to work on new content and maintain the server and game world.

Have or have nots really doesnt matter to me. Its the fact that I have ALREADY paid for all content. I bought the game, I pay a monthly fee. The monthly fee is for any new content that arises. Thats why Im paying it. And happily so.

When MTs are involved its a result of devs adding content for extra bucks. Not to make the game better. Not to improve or build upon it. Just for some extra cash. Again, like Ive said before, its a rip off. Its cheap. Nothing is going to change my opinion of that.

You could make the same argument about buying a car. "Would you like leather seats for $X?" "I'm paying for this car already, I want everything that comes with it for no additional fee."

Not entirely the same, and I'd definitely be against MTs myself, but tossing it out there.

[Corehaven22]

You could make the same argument about buying a car. "Would you like leather seats for $X?" "I'm paying for this car already, I want everything that comes with it for no additional fee."

Not entirely the same, and I'd definitely be against MTs myself, but tossing it out there.

Well DONT toss stuff like that out there if you are AGAINST IT!!!!!! And you can keep your fancy smansy leather seats! :mad: :p

[Evertras]

Well DONT toss stuff like that out there if you are AGAINST IT!!!!!! And you can keep your fancy smansy leather seats! :mad: :p

I'm a devil's advocate, I can't help it! I HAVE A PROBLEM! :(

[Corehaven22]

I'm a devil's advocate, I can't help it! I HAVE A PROBLEM! :(

Seriously though, if Cryptic turns into a bunch of car salesmen I quit.

[Evertras]

Seriously though, if Cryptic turns into a bunch of car salesmen I quit.

The day I see a Cryptic Explorer is the day I play a Sony game.

[Tamgros]

The day I see a Cryptic Explorer is the day I play a Sony game.

Actually "Cryptic Explorer" has a nice ring to it. Someone should tell Ford... :p

[Loekii]

You could make the same argument about buying a car. "Would you like leather seats for $X?" "I'm paying for this car already, I want everything that comes with it for no additional fee."

Not entirely the same, and I'd definitely be against MTs myself, but tossing it out there.

For some MT though, its not just cosmetic options, but rather a bigger engine and racing suspense, which skews the game for some of us.

Performance enhancing and shortcutting MT, affect more than just the purchaser, which is why some of us are against them.

[Evertras]

For some MT though, its not just cosmetic options, but rather a bigger engine and racing suspense, which skews the game for some of us.

Performance enhancing and shortcutting MT, affect more than just the purchaser, which is why some of us are against them.



If I see performance-enhancing MTs, I'm out. Totally out, no question. Cosmetic is as far as I'll tolerate, and I won't be buying any myself. I won't mind it, though.

But yeah, performance-altering and I'm out. I highly doubt they'll do that, though, so I have no worries.

[Loekii]

If I see performance-enhancing MTs, I'm out. Totally out, no question. Cosmetic is as far as I'll tolerate, and I won't be buying any myself. I won't mind it, though.

But yeah, performance-altering and I'm out. I highly doubt they'll do that, though, so I have no worries.

You and me both.

Again, I respect if that is someone's cup of tea, but it is not mine -- and its one of the deal breakers for me.

I dislike 'WoW-Baying', and I dislike performance MTing.

I have stopped playing with friends when I have discovered they bought gold.

Its just not my thing, nor something I like to be around.

[Corehaven22]

You and me both.

Again, I respect if that is someone's cup of tea, but it is not mine -- and its one of the deal breakers for me.

I dislike 'WoW-Baying', and I dislike performance MTing.

I have stopped playing with friends when I have discovered they bought gold.

Its just not my thing, nor something I like to be around.

If Im going to play in an MMORPG, I'd like to be on the same ground as everyone else. Even the cosmetic aesthetic stuff.

I want an environment where everyone has the same access to the same content. I dont want to be someone with something someone else doesnt have because I threw more money at the game. I want to earn everything and anything I might have through my game play merits. If another player sees I have something amazing or interesting I want it to be because I earned it. Not payed extra for it.

[Suiko]

CommanderReed, if micro-transactions occur I will cover all of the costs for you!.

Well, this certainly sounds like a nice deal! :D

That's what I like about Star Trek, you can always count on someone to be there for you! *When needed of course.

[ngille]

While I hope beyond hope that MT's won't be in the game (maybe they had that ui element in there for the sole purpose of a just in case scenerio such as a couple of subscription mmo's that went from sub to MT). Its Star Trek, so as much as I hope it's not in there, I'll at least give it a shot if it is.

Its monday so I'm hoping we get some form of dev response soon regarding this issue. Note I said hope as in not demanding.

[Father_Origin]

Here is how I treat microtransactions

IF-
They make the game for free and offer upgrades for money

I will play for free and never buy an upgrade

IF-
They have a purchase the game thing and then no monthly fee thing going...

I will wait til the game gets cheap, buy it and never make a micro purchase

IF-
They make you pay for the game, pay monthly fees AND micropurchase

I will never play the game



IF-
They don't have microtransactions and charge for the game, and have monthly fees

I will wait in line at the store and buy it at 12:01 AM on launch



Microtransactions are evil. I would rather pay $15 a month...because then I can budget for
it..and never worry about it, last thing I need on my bank account is a butt load of tiny
charges and a butt load of not so tiny charges the bank will hit me for having all those
microtransactions.

[Trixxe]

I don't mind if they add micro transactions if it's for items that aren't needed for game play. I'm talking purely aesthetic aspects.

Extra uniform parts, starships designs, etc...etc...

That I won't mind. If they have MTs for items that have actual effects on gameplay (better torpedoes, higher tier crewmen, etc...etc...) then I'll be greatly disappointed. MMOs should reward players for skill and time spent playing. Not which one has the most disposable income at any given moment.

[ComradeWolfie]

Microtransactions is a terrible idea, its essentially rewarding richer players... which is moronic, and annoyingly capitalist. If it goes forward, lets have a revolution, redistribute the products

WARP NACCELS FOR EVERYONE!

[nanf00dl3]

I am looking forward to trying ST online and Champ but I will not play a microtransaction game. This removes allot of skill from the game. Some people have access to unlimited funds to spend and end up with the best gear and items and owning is PVP and PVE. If this is ture I will just wait for DC or Knights of the old Republic.

[DanSeale]

I don't mind if they add micro transactions if it's for items that aren't needed for game play. I'm talking purely aesthetic aspects.

Extra uniform parts, starships designs, etc...etc...

That I won't mind. If they have MTs for items that have actual effects on gameplay (better torpedoes, higher tier crewmen, etc...etc...) then I'll be greatly disappointed. MMOs should reward players for skill and time spent playing. Not which one has the most disposable income at any given moment.

Believe it or not ... we agree !

hmmm I wonder what they would charge me to get my version of a certain ship in here !

:D

Just kidding ... I think some times folks are concerned if that if some things are done : ie the examples you have given .. or for charactor name changes (in other words charge for services rendered) .. that it would be a temptation to start using the others as well. That might be a bit over reaction .

[Loekii]

I am looking forward to trying ST online and Champ but I will not play a microtransaction game. This removes allot of skill from the game. Some people have access to unlimited funds to spend and end up with the best gear and items and owning is PVP and PVE. If this is ture I will just wait for DC or Knights of the old Republic.

It is like seeing March Maddness filled with teams that simply 'paid' for those spots, rather than actually competing, imo.

[DanSeale]

It is like seeing March Maddness filled with teams that simply 'paid' for those spots, rather than actually competing, imo.

LOL !

Dont forge the blue light special on ilse 7 !

(sorry ... just couldn't resist !)

[Kade]

I am looking forward to trying ST online and Champ but I will not play a microtransaction game. This removes allot of skill from the game. Some people have access to unlimited funds to spend and end up with the best gear and items and owning is PVP and PVE. If this is ture I will just wait for DC or Knights of the old Republic.

Ok, I've seen this said twice about waiting for TOR (and by the way it is SW:TOR, not Knights of the Old Republic). TOR has had one of it's executives at EA mention off the cuff in a share holders meeting that they plan to use MT as well. Of course, it was quickly "hush-hushed" with plenty of "We haven't finalized our payments options yet", but it is clear to see MT is a serious player in their decision process.

My question is don't these suits understand how unpopular it is? I mean, with new games struggling as they have for whatever reason (my personal opinion being trying to emulate WoW which noone but Blizzard can do: so don't try) why add another layer that ripples such waves in the payment structure. Just go with what has worked and that the overwhelming majority of future customers/consumers are comfortable with.

I think alot of these suits just try to come up with "something new/different" just to look like they are doing work. They don't have their finger on the pulse of the consumer, which is the industry. If anything they are taking reading from a cold, dead fish. :D

[Trixxe]

Ok, I've seen this said twice about waiting for TOR (and by the way it is SW:TOR, not Knights of the Old Republic). TOR has had one of it's executives at EA mention off the cuff in a share holders meeting that they plan to use MT as well. Of course, it was quickly "hush-hushed" with plenty of "We haven't finalized our payments options yet", but it is clear to see MT is a serious player in their decision process.

My question is don't these suits understand how unpopular it is? I mean, with new games struggling as they have for whatever reason (my personal opinion being trying to emulate WoW which noone but Blizzard can do: so don't try) why add another layer that ripples such waves in the payment structure. Just go with what has worked and that the overwhelming majority of future customers/consumers are comfortable with.

I think alot of these suits just try to come up with "something new/different" just to look like they are doing work. They don't have their finger on the pulse of the consumer, which is the industry. If anything they are taking reading from a cold, dead fish. :D

It may be unpopular, but when you're talking about suits making decisions, there's a classic formula. which will make more money, MTs, regular subs, or regular subs with MTs. Which ever has the highest projection of profit, that's the one they'll go with.

The best two models for MTs I've seen are CoH and SWG.

You don't have to use MTs with either system. If you never make an MT, then you loose nothing.
However, with CoH, you can use MTs to make extra character slots or purchase respec vouchers. Not needed, but nice to have if you have some extra lollie laying about.

With SWG, they added a in-game trading card game, in which certain cards gave you in-game loot. Everyone was given 5 free packs of cards every month. You could also purchase more cards from the system if the 5 freebies a month didn't do it for you.

Players hated the TCG, but it generated a HUGE amount of profit for SOE, so they kept with it.

It may be unpopular, and I believe that Cryptic genuinely cares about it's player base, and wants to put out a product that we'll all love. However, that being said, business is business. These people are spending a fortune on this game, and they want to make their money back and then some. If they think they can do that with MTs, then prepare yourself to have to deal with MTs.

I doubt they'll have MTs for game vital items, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had MTs for fluff items.

[DracoPalin]

Ill say it one more time for emphasis NO MTs for ANY in game content.:mad:

NOT cards
NOT loot
NOT costumes
NOT ship parts
NOT upgrades
NOT avatar parts
NOT XP boosts
NOT cosmetics
NOT decorations
NOT Inteiors
NOT fleet items
NOT temporary abilities
NOT permanent powers
NOT stat boosters

There is more but I think you get the idea.

NOT....NOT.....NOT

NO MTs
NO favoriteism to people with more disposable cash.!!
It is NOT fair to those of us with a limited budget.

That being said, Cryptic isnt stupid, they have a thread here with 19 pages and only 3-4 post in favor of or indiferent to MTs.
I dont think they wanna kill STO from the very begining.

[Loekii]

Players hated the TCG, but it generated a HUGE amount of profit for SOE, so they kept with it.


With regards to SWG, what is considered 'Huge' profit? The subscription numbers were pretty weak to begin with, I don't recall any buzz about a Card Game luring players back to the game.

[Sumdian]

MT's to change servers or extra slots is ok i can live with that but if you need to use MT's to get loot no mater what it is then i wouldn't bother with this game it would be just a bunch of rich kids in all the best gear flying around ganking people like a lot of the free asian MMO's and it would die a fast death i already now of 50+ people in wow who want to have a look at STO and CO but will not if it has MT's of any kind for loot

[Riodan]

Monthly subscriptions are more convenient, do not and will not cause an imbalance, and the payment options are already proven to work. The "number one" MMO on the market today uses them and they rake in massive amounts of money. Using MT at this point under the shadow of the "number one" MMO on the market atm, would easily show the community how greedy the suits are and just how low they would be willing to go to pursue that extra nickel or dime.

[Corehaven22]

Ill say it one more time for emphasis NO MTs for ANY in game content.:mad:

NOT cards
NOT loot
NOT costumes
NOT ship parts
NOT upgrades
NOT avatar parts
NOT XP boosts
NOT cosmetics
NOT decorations
NOT Inteiors
NOT fleet items
NOT temporary abilities
NOT permanent powers
NOT stat boosters

There is more but I think you get the idea.

NOT....NOT.....NOT

NO MTs
NO favoriteism to people with more disposable cash.!!
It is NOT fair to those of us with a limited budget.

That being said, Cryptic isnt stupid, they have a thread here with 19 pages and only 3-4 post in favor of or indiferent to MTs.
I dont think they wanna kill STO from the very begining.

This post represents how I pretty much feel about it. However, I dont think Trixxe's post is without merit.
But we have to also consider the risk involved in ticking off otherwise dedicated consumers by involving MT in STO. Will the extra money made cover the possible loss of a few or even many subscribers? And its worth pointing out that it depends on what KIND of MTs are involved with STO.

If its some stupid card game I could probably keep playing and just ignore it easily. But if it involves costumes, xp boosts, interiors, loot, or anything like that, I probably wouldnt bother to play either. Its just not worth it. I can also go play some other MMO for my fix, where I get all the content therein by just paying my subscription fee.

[DracoPalin]

This post represents how I pretty much feel about it. However, I dont think Trixxe's post is without merit.
But we have to also consider the risk involved in ticking off otherwise dedicated consumers by involving MT in STO. Will the extra money made cover the possible loss of a few or even many subscribers? And its worth pointing out that it depends on what KIND of MTs are involved with STO.

If its some stupid card game I could probably keep playing and just ignore it easily. But if it involves costumes, xp boosts, interiors, loot, or anything like that, I probably wouldnt bother to play either. Its just not worth it. I can also go play some other MMO for my fix, where I get all the content therein by just paying my subscription fee.

This is the BIG question.

[chaintm]

can't beleive this topic went so many pages, the big give here is...

"Win a free account for life!" promotions back when this site launched, so umm, ya. put one and one togather. Topic is silly because the answer is allready known. Argue with me all you want, but giving away a free subscription to a micro game would be false would it not? Read between the lines people :)

[Trixxe]

With regards to SWG, what is considered 'Huge' profit? The subscription numbers were pretty weak to begin with, I don't recall any buzz about a Card Game luring players back to the game.

The TCG had nothing to do with luring players back to the game. It generated profit through micro transactions. In fact, for the first two months of the TCG, the TCG generated more revenue than the regular subscriptions did. It dropped of sharply after that, but still made them a sizeable income.

[KL0k]

The TCG had nothing to do with luring players back to the game. It generated profit through micro transactions. In fact, for the first two months of the TCG, the TCG generated more revenue than the regular subscriptions did. It dropped of sharply after that, but still made them a sizeable income.

and thats the important thing, why this is bad.
if you wanna see your subscribers jump off, then penetrate them with stuff like this, but dont look surprised if your subscriberbase dies off.

[Corehaven22]

can't beleive this topic went so many pages, the big give here is...

"Win a free account for life!" promotions back when this site launched, so umm, ya. put one and one togather. Topic is silly because the answer is allready known. Argue with me all you want, but giving away a free subscription to a micro game would be false would it not? Read between the lines people :)

Thats a good point. Hopefully MT wont be involved. But does every game that involves MT not involve a monthly fee? A free account for life doesnt automatically mean MT wont be there. The monthly fee could just be waived, but all MT in the game could still exist.

But I hope you're correct. It would give me comfort to know STO wont have them.

[SenshiBat]

You could buy an upgrade to your carbon based existence..

But for in-game content.. I feel if they want to build a good game its in the game not in a add-on.

The IP will float or not based on good product not poor excused. .

"Well you should have purchased the Add-on if you want to do that."

Do not feel they are doing a "Stealth" maneuver on us here... unless its too apparent in the UI of the Actual Game not some Beta idea of this game.

[Trixxe]

This is the BIG question.

Indeed it is. Now let me clear one thing up though. I don't like MTs. I'm against them in principle across the board. Like I said, if they make them for unnecessary items, then I won't loose any sleep, but I'll still feel ripped off.

That being said, Cryptic has investors to answer to, and they're a lot more critical than we are. Cryptic's #1 priority, is to turn a profit. Their #2 priority, is to make us happy. It sucks, but that's the way of the world

[Loekii]

The TCG had nothing to do with luring players back to the game. It generated profit through micro transactions. In fact, for the first two months of the TCG, the TCG generated more revenue than the regular subscriptions did. It dropped of sharply after that, but still made them a sizeable income.

Again, how many subscribers did SWG have at that point? From my understanding, SWG did rather poorly to begin with, and then steadily bled off subscribers until they made the 'change'.

[Trixxe]

and thats the important thing, why this is bad.
if you wanna see your subscribers jump off, then penetrate them with stuff like this, but dont look surprised if your subscriberbase dies off.

No, they didn't have a drop in subscribers. it was a drop in the sales generated by the TCG. That's what I was refering too.

[Trixxe]

Again, how many subscribers did SWG have at that point? From my understanding, SWG did rather poorly to begin with, and then steadily bled off subscribers until they made the 'change'.


This has been discused before. It's difficult to get exact numbers of SWG subscribers due to the station pass plan. However the TCG had nothing to do with subscribers. It had everything to do with MTs. I really don't see the connection you're trying to make with subscribers here.

Are you suggesting that the TCG chased people away? I was playing the game at the time, and noticed no sudden drop in numbers.

[KL0k]

Cryptic's #1 priority, is to turn a profit. Their #2 priority, is to make us happy. It sucks, but that's the way of the world

and thats why many companies fail at this part. cause they dont realize that you have to make your customer happy to earn money / make profit. otherwise they will turn their backs on you and try to find a better one.

[Loekii]

This has been discused before. It's difficult to get exact numbers of SWG subscribers due to the station pass plan. However the TCG had nothing to do with subscribers. It had everything to do with MTs. I really don't see the connection you're trying to make with subscribers here.

Are you suggesting that the TCG chased people away? I was playing the game at the time, and noticed no sudden drop in numbers.

What I am saying is that the TCG worked, possibly because the game was a bad game for an MMO. It's popularity is probably affected by the problems of SWG.

[Corehaven22]

Indeed it is. Now let me clear one thing up though. I don't like MTs. I'm against them in principle across the board. Like I said, if they make them for unnecessary items, then I won't loose any sleep, but I'll still feel ripped off.

That being said, Cryptic has investors to answer to, and they're a lot more critical than we are. Cryptic's #1 priority, is to turn a profit. Their #2 priority, is to make us happy. It sucks, but that's the way of the world

I totally agree that its a rip off. I just dont think the practice is good business.

As for your second point... I could see it that way. Or.....

Their number one priority is to make us happy. So that they CAN turn a profit.

In reality, perhaps the two are equally important, as they go hand in hand. If they are focused on profit, they need to have a happy player base. If they are focused on a happy player base, they will turn a profit.

Well....thats how I see it anyways. ;)

[Loekii]

That being said, Cryptic has investors to answer to, and they're a lot more critical than we are. Cryptic's #1 priority, is to turn a profit. Their #2 priority, is to make us happy. It sucks, but that's the way of the world

The thing is, if they fail at #2, they lose subscriptions, which them makes #1 not happen.

So in reality, they need to make customers happy, so they keep resubscribing. So in reality, #1 and #2 go hand and hand. You cannot have #1 without #2.

A mark of a bad game is the steady decline in resubs. Selling alot of boxes is easy if you have a decent marketing team. SWG is an example of that. However, if you fail to retain +30% of the box sales, it says you made a bad game.

[Trixxe]

I totally agree that its a rip off. I just dont think the practice is good business.

As for your second point... I could see it that way. Or.....

Their number one priority is to make us happy. So that they CAN turn a profit.

In reality, perhaps the two are equally important, as they go hand in hand. If they are focused on profit, they need to have a happy player base. If they are focused on a happy player base, they will turn a profit.

Well....thats how I see it anyways. ;)

You are correct. 99% of the time, they both go hand in hand. Happy players = renewed subs = big fat paycheck = happy bosses. It's a win/win situation.

However, MTs is one of those tricky areas in which both priorities don't get along well. I'd like to say that MTs will drive enough players away to make it an unmarketable idea, but there's just no hard data to back that up. I know a few people have said that if they go with MTs, then they're going to boycott the game, but are there enough people willing to do that to make MTs unviable? I'd like to say yes, but I'm far from convinced.

Recent games which have used MTs have done so with great success. I can't think of any titles which have used MTs and have suffered from a player exodus. If I'm wrong here, PLEASE someone give me some hard data for evidence, because I WANT to be proven wrong here.

I'm not saying that I like MT, because I don't.
I'm not saying that they're fair, because they aren't.
I'm not saying that they won't make me angry, because they will.

I'm just saying the Cryptic is first and foremost a business. We're not the only people they have responsibilities too. They have investors that expect a return on their investments, and rightly so. If they deem that an MT system is the most efficient way to do that, then that' what's going to happen I'm afraid to say.

[Wardog00]

I don't totally agree with having MT Stores but, it does take the farmers and game currency sellers out of the equation. I have played WoW for the past 4 years and I have friends who's guilds by E-Bay gold to buy there members mounts, gear and training. Think of it from a business point of view (Blizzard in this point) is getting undercut from profits in it's own game. Then they totally control and over price the player based Econ. and normal players can't afford gear.

As far as this game goes, think of it like Ferengi Business. You buy parts, upgrades, High-yield ammo. I don't think it's a horrible idea. I like most other adult players have a job and can't play a game 12 hours a day to grind Epic gear. This will actually allow "Casual" players to still have fun and compete with "Hardcore" players.

My opinion is, if they don't sell items that give a huge advantage or cause severe balance issues then make your money Cryptic. I will still play.

[dinendae]

I don't totally agree with having MT Stores but, it does take the farmers and game currency sellers out of the equation. I have played WoW for the past 4 years and I have friends who's guilds by E-Bay gold to buy there members mounts, gear and training. Think of it from a business point of view (Blizzard in this point) is getting undercut from profits in it's own game. Then they totally control and over price the player based Econ. and normal players can't afford gear.

Actually, it does not take the farmer/sellers out of the equations. In fact, in the few MT games I have played, I found it actually encourages them. There was one Free to Play, MT MMO I tried (can't remember the name, just remember that is was a clone of Lineage II's graphics) where the spam from the sellers was insane; every channel had those 'Buy the Cheapest gold www.whatever.com" coming inand scrolling the chatbox so fast that you could barely read them. At first I thought it was just a few bots, but as I started adding names to the ignore list I saw that there were dozens. Needless to say, the game lasted less than one hour on my hard drive.

As far as this game goes, think of it like Ferengi Business. You buy parts, upgrades, High-yield ammo. I don't think it's a horrible idea. I like most other adult players have a job and can't play a game 12 hours a day to grind Epic gear. This will actually allow "Casual" players to still have fun and compete with "Hardcore" players.

My opinion is, if they don't sell items that give a huge advantage or cause severe balance issues then make your money Cryptic. I will still play.

Actually that is what most people are speaking out against here; most don't want MTs for in-game items that give any kind of advantage. Such items for sale wouldn't even out casual players versus hardcore players either, as it is merely a matter of available money; those with the money to spend, whether hardcore or casual, will be able to purchase an edge versus those who might not have a lot of money to spend on such items. As for evening things out from what Cryptic has said that shouldn't be much of an issue in this game as compared to say WoW, where the twinked characters generally dominated the battlegrounds.

[Kade]

Ok, honestly, yeah, I'd rather them charge $16-18/month than do the MT thing. If they launch a fairly polished game and have 99.9% server up time from the start, I don't think many would object to $16-18. *shrug*

[J.L.Picard]

This is some of the worst news I've heard in a while (from a CO perspective). There a bunch of other systems they could use that don't require people to feel nickel and dimed. People's success in an MMO shouldn't depend on disposable income outside the game. That's part of the reason many people play a game, for uniformity.

If STO institutes this I'll be very skeptical about STO. I like a lot of their ideas, but Cryptic really does have some explaining to do on some of these potential decisions.

yep this is a major downturn if it happens for STO, this seriously ****es me off, the number of noobs is going to increase tenfold with every item bought, this is just plain retarded if it is implemented for STO.

[takiwa]

the thing is with Microtransactions there is a view that if a game has to go the route of being free to play with microtransactions the game has effectivly failed.

As for declaring that you will not be playing if it goes the microtransaction route is a bit harsh, its already been proven to be a viable model with a lot of companies looking towards it as a way of making extra funds of already existing games.

Look at the XBOX live system you can buy extra levels / or costumes for games you already owne. I mean ive got fallout3 on the xbox but im not upset that they have released added content that i pay to play. thats only fair someone has had to sit down and make all that content up.

I do suspect that both champions online and STO will be microtransactions based around, character names, server transfers (unless its just one server) character slots and costumes.

I dont think cryptic will say, well if you want to use the prometheus then give us 5 dollars/pounds. I suspect it will be along the lines of if you want to activate a holodeck program such as khan or so forth or TOS style uniforms.

however i do sort of agree i wont be playing a microtransaction game i end up spending WAY more than what i would on a 15 pound a month one.

Awarkle...

Here's the reasons I dislike the pay to play model as implemented in some MMO games I have played.

1. In addition to spending over $100 on just the game/additional software (booster packs), I am also paying $15/month, now over 5 years that's almost $1000 for one account (in the monthly fees), thing is I ran multiple accounts, and had to buy the game several times, and the bonus packs several times, and then pay the monthly fee several times over, I have already spent enough money on a game, and the fact that I am paying the monthly subscription fee should be covering the additional content costs.

2. There is no agreement from the company that the items that they begin to sell are not going to change, and that's how SWG did it. They started slow, and then ramped into it as they noticed the super rare or amazing items were selling the card packs like hotcakes. You see there is simply no way for me to justify that additional expense, in the pay per month business style, Even without the monthly fee I would have not liked what in SWG's case ammounted to gambling, you bought virtual card packs which you may or may not get anything inside of, That left a sour taste in my mouth.

3. A game worth playing is worth playing fairly, if I spend the time to play the game I get rewarded, buying the best equipment shrtcuts it and ruins play for everyone. I could all ways tell when someone bought an account in SWG, because they didn't know WTH was going on, or what they had, or what they were doing. This ruined not only the buyer of the account but everyone else that was expecting a player of this level to know at a minimum how to play that character, only to find out that they could not.

4. The problem with MT's that I have experienced is quite different from ones I have heard of on WoW and even some other free to play games. The bottom line is the game should stand on its own however they wish to make cash off the game, and in many cases with MT's the game does not, the reasoning is simple, the items someone needs sell better, so it doesn't take long for companies to crank out garbage for the free content and the desirables for the pay pay content.

5. I am not making a decision one way or another until/when its oannounced and I have seen and experienced the system. I gave the system in SWG a chance, and foundd that for me SOE's pattern of telling half-truths, or complete lies, was not broken with relation to the MT system (card game) they adopted. The even began in the forums early by killing any post topic about the card game in the game play forums stating that it did not effect gameplay and therefore did not belong in that forum, that was until the began releasing the best buffs available in the game through the TCG packs. OOPS there goes that rule.
Takiwa

[ngille]

Just wish they would say something letting us know about this so we will know if its a non issue or if we should go into more of a panic mode ;) (figuratively speaking)

[Suiko]

Maybe microtransactions will only be for Ferengi characters :D

[dinendae]

Maybe microtransactions will only be for Ferengi characters :D

I rather think Ferengi would be more interested in macrotransactions! :D

[DracoPalin]

MicroTransactions are simply a way to focus on the people with extra income,
A fucus on shortterm profit at the expence of long term stability.

Facts.
1) If they emplement an MT structure,they will make a large profit quickly from ppl seaking an unfair advantage.
2)That profit will be short lived as the majority of the player base will not tolerate MTs and will either not play beyond the first 30 days or not buy the game at all.(just read this thread.)

so the question Cryptic has to ask itself is this.

Will the short term profit gained by MTs be worth the quick demise of a potentialy great game that could make them a fortune in the long run?

[Signalsgt]

MicroTransactions are simply a way to focus on the people with extra income,
A fucus on shortterm profit at the expence of long term stability.

Facts.
1) If they emplement an MT structure,they will make a large profit quickly from ppl seaking an unfair advantage.
2)That profit will be short lived as the majority of the player base will not tolerate MTs and will either not play beyond the first 30 days or not buy the game at all.(just read this thread.)

so the question Cryptic has to ask itself is this.

Will the short term profit gained by MTs be worth the quick demise of a potentialy great game that could make them a fortune in the long run?

If MT's kept rabble rousers and problem children out of the environment I'm fine with it. Sadly money is the only way to police online environments.

[Kade]

If MT's kept rabble rousers and problem children out of the environment I'm fine with it. Sadly money is the only way to police online environments.

You have got to be kidding me. I knew you guys south of Waco were...well, anyway, but if you think MT is going to keep "rabble rousers and problem children out", you need a big dose of MMO reality. Having large amounts of money does not exclude you from falling into the aforementioned category. If fact, it is easily argued that the spoiled money having individuals act like kids even more, whine and complain more because "I'm paying money so I must be right, I'm the customer!".

Sure, money is the only way to police online environments. The money that corporations pay moderators and GMs, that is. Having competent staff who actually enforce the EULA and TOS is THE way to deal with them. If anything, when you add MT to the equation, you create a "haves and have nots" situation which only stirs up frustration and leads to more CS issues.

[Loekii]

Ok, honestly, yeah, I'd rather them charge $16-18/month than do the MT thing. If they launch a fairly polished game and have 99.9% server up time from the start, I don't think many would object to $16-18. *shrug*

I agree.

If they have 200k subscriptions, thats about $200-$400k/mo income, which is probably far more than what they would get from micro transactions.

[DanSeale]

I agree.

If they have 200k subscriptions, thats about $200-$400k/mo income, which is probably far more than what they would get from micro transactions.

YUP ! I agree ... Better to charge a nominal fee that is well recveived and have a much larger customer base than to add all of the extra expense items and end up with a smaller clientel to work with.

The larger the customer base .. the more stable the income, the better the chance for a longer life span and continued income.

(just my opinion)

[Manta2015]

I believe the census is that micro-transactions are aren't a great thing for top MMOs.

If I'm questing and earning my gear / ship abilities after many hours of gameplay, and then find some complete novice spoiled rich kid get the same thing in seconds because his parents are loaded, that would happen to be the biggest turn-off to playing in the first place. It would make playing seem like a complete waste of time if all I needed was more money.

Cryptic, I'm sure you'll do the right thing.


-Manta-

[Kade]

I believe the census is that micro-transactions are aren't a great thing for top MMOs.

If I'm questing and earning my gear / ship abilities after many hours of gameplay, and then find some complete novice spoiled rich kid get the same thing in seconds because his parents are loaded, that would happen to be the biggest turn-off to playing in the first place. It would make playing seem like a complete waste of time if all I needed was more money.

Cryptic, I'm sure you'll do the right thing.


-Manta-

In which case, why even play? MMOs are supposed to be games and games are supposed to offer up some kind of challenge. Part of that challenge is to better your character in PvE and PvP(for those that like it). If you can just buy the stuff to make your character better and there is no "struggle" to attain character growth through spending time interacting in/with the world, to get a sense of purpose and place, why play?

Most people like know they have a chance to be competitive with other players, be it in PvE or PvP. MT has a large potential to throw that off kilter. Some people want to cite time as a variable, and as a pro for MT. I disagree. Gaming is a hobby. Just like any hobby, you have to put in a certain amount of time to be "good" at it.

I don't know. It's a principles thing for me I guess. Reward should only be given to those that invest the time to being a part of the world the developers created. It cheapens the creation effort and the sense of pride one has in their work in my opinion.

I eagerly await official word on this and hope that Cryptic makes the call to not use MT at all. Like I said, if the game is well done and the launch is relatively smooth, I don't think their would be too much rubbling about a $1-3 increase on monthly subscriptions. *shrug*

[DracoPalin]

In which case, why even play? MMOs are supposed to be games and games are supposed to offer up some kind of challenge. Part of that challenge is to better your character in PvE and PvP(for those that like it). If you can just buy the stuff to make your character better and there is no "struggle" to attain character growth through spending time interacting in/with the world, to get a sense of purpose and place, why play?

Most people like know they have a chance to be competitive with other players, be it in PvE or PvP. MT has a large potential to throw that off kilter. Some people want to cite time as a variable, and as a pro for MT. I disagree. Gaming is a hobby. Just like any hobby, you have to put in a certain amount of time to be "good" at it.

I don't know. It's a principles thing for me I guess. Reward should only be given to those that invest the time to being a part of the world the developers created. It cheapens the creation effort and the sense of pride one has in their work in my opinion.

I eagerly await official word on this and hope that Cryptic makes the call to not use MT at all. Like I said, if the game is well done and the launch is relatively smooth, I don't think their would be too much rubbling about a $1-3 increase on monthly subscriptions. *shrug*

you are absolutly right,I could not have put it better myself.

[Captain.Hunter]

I'm not a big fan of microtransactions.

Its kind of like saying, to really get what you want you have to pay extra for it. No amount of hard work in game will let you do it.

[Aa6338]

If Star Trek Online were to delve into the world of microtransactions, I would be very disappointed.

Granted we have no idea what this entails, for all we know this could be like it City of Heroes where you can buy additional character slots.

This is a good point though.

[CalonLan]

Eh. Microtransactions aren't that bad. It seems to be a much more successful evonomic approach than monthly fees...

As long as I'm not required to buy them to get the best stuff in the game its fine.

My thoughts exactly.

[Fluxion]

Speaking for myself, I don't *need* to play in a Star Trek Universe. It just is not that important to me, that I would play a game I don't really enjoy.

SWG was the only 'Star Wars' mmo, and I walked away from that game in the first month, without looking back.


Agreed. And I also walked away from SWG.