Warp and Gravity or STO Gravity 101

[Arokh72]

In our little planetary rotation thread someone mentioned gravity in game which got me to thinking. As anyone who is into the technical aspects of Trek, one maybe aware that warping in our out of a planets gravity well is a big no no. The idea of activating a warp field and being ripped to shreds doesn't appeal to me. This why you never see a ship warp direct from orbit, granted you never see them leave orbit either you just see them warp off, but based on technical manuals and the like one is unable to warp directly from orbit due to the planet's gravitational pull. Of course warping around a sun is ok as Klingon ships can withstand the forces involved so you can travel back in time to pick up a couple of whales and the mum from 7th Heaven.

Therefore as a community what are the thoughts on this restriction in game, in that you cannot warp away from a planet till you are outside of it's gravity well...which is based on the planet's relative gravity. I can see it both being a nightmare and a good strategic tool. If you are in orbit and a nasty little Klingon comes up on you you'll need to make a choice, either stay and fight or try to outrun them till you can warp out...and hope they don't blast your warp capability away at the same time.

[jakeeyes]

Seems easy enough to code and it enhances gameplay. Sign me up.

[Cochran]

Actually you bring up a valid point. If my memory serves me, they also brought up that going to warp too close to a planet would cause a "wake" effect much like when a jet flies close to water and can severely damage a planet's atmosphere. I don't necessarily think the "no warp zone" needs to really be anything calculated from the planet's gravity zone, as that really is just a waste of processing power that would serve only to bog down server response. Instead I would just say there is a "No warp zone" withing a pre-defined distance from a planet. IE: as long as you are 10,000 Km from the planet you cannot enter warp. Regardless of planet size.

Just my thoughts, but I think your concept is a great one :)

[_Pax_]

Instead of a single distance, though, I think it'd FEEL better if the Warp Exclusion Zone was directly related to teh size of the planet (which, not so incidentally, would relate it to that planet's gravitational field, anyway).

For example: mark out a sphere with the same centerpoint as the planet, but with TWICE the radius. Anywhere within that sphere is a Warp Exclusion Zone.

For Earth, with a radius of ~4,000 miles, it's WEZ woudl have a radius of ~8,000 miles.
For the Moon, with a radius of ~1100 miles, it's WEZ would have a radius of ~2,200 miles.

If those sound too small, just increase the WEZ's multiplier. How about ten times the planet's radius?

For Earth, with a radius of ~4,000 miles, it's WEZ woudl have a radius of ~40,000 miles.
For the Moon, with a radius of ~1100 miles, it's WEZ would have a radius of ~22,000 miles.

... and so on.

[No1UKnow]

Some things sounds really cool to do once or twice, but to be force to do them every time you move becomes less exciting than pulling wisdom teeth.

I can appreciate all the great thought and wanted extras in the game that a few people want, but this game is not a simulation. It's an mmo. I think most players will tire very quickly of having to "idle" away from a planet for a few minutes before they can warp to their next destination.

Some great ideas may be best served or demonstrated on occasion through some episodes, but not every time you leave a planet.

[_Pax_]

You know, "full impulse" is actually quite fast - by some measures, as much as two-thirds lightspeed.

And at that speed? You'd be out of even a 200,000-mile "no Warp here" area in somewhat less than two seconds. *shrug*

Even at one-quarter lightspeed, that's only a ~7-second trip. And to go that slow, you'd have to be at less than half Impulse speed.

[Pest]

Depending on how it was implememted it could be a great tactical feature, even if it only took a few seconds to move to the appropriate distance to engage your warp engines, it would be something you would have to be aware of whenever entering orbit.


Sooooo many possiblities!:)

[Loekii]

Some things sounds really cool to do once or twice, but to be force to do them every time you move becomes less exciting than pulling wisdom teeth.

I can appreciate all the great thought and wanted extras in the game that a few people want, but this game is not a simulation. It's an mmo. I think most players will tire very quickly of having to "idle" away from a planet for a few minutes before they can warp to their next destination.

Some great ideas may be best served or demonstrated on occasion through some episodes, but not every time you leave a planet.

From a Gamming perspective, I agree. It needs to avoid becoming tedious and unfun. I

For the most part, I do not see much being able to happen in that time -- I disagree with the idea of the sneak attack knockign out engines in under 20 secs (remember, combat is tactical and not a swift 'I win' system). So at best, an attacker might get a few shots off before the ship jumps to warp -- effectively no different than the same attack in open space, imo. No real tactical value.

Bascially, I can just see this being an automtic system, where when you jump to warp from 'planetary orbit', you ship breaks orbit at full impulse and then jumps to warp a few seconds later (no more than say 20 secs). Thus we get 'trained' that we cannot just 'blip' away from a planet, opening up the possibility of some Episodic content based around he inabilty to warp out of orbit.

[_Pax_]

Depending on how it was implememted it could be a great tactical feature, even if it only took a few seconds to move to the appropriate distance to engage your warp engines, it would be something you would have to be aware of whenever entering orbit.
Especially in PvP areas, actually, this could be important. Zooming in on a hit-and-run against someone already orbiting a large planet becomes less of a cakewalk, when you KNOW you have to survive "under their guns" for an extra four or five seconds while trying to zoom back OUT and escape to warp ...

[THORN74]

yes I agree with the OP, trek canon/tech suggests in-system flight should be a "no-wake" zone reguarding warp travel. It actually has been shown several times on screen, through both dialouge and action shots. its usually pretty subtle, but its there.

i think, for the game, this should either be completly ignored or made automatic. As it would be too complicted/geek-centric for the average player to care about.

[Sumoben]

I don't think warping too close to a planet will be an issue 30 years from Nemesis. Starfleet has always included changes in their warp technology to prevent damage to subspace, and normal space.

[Zomeguy]

Well according to the everything we know sticky:

"You cannot enter warp at a whim within a star system; impulse is the norm. You can warp between planets within a system, however."

So it seems there will be restrictions and when we can go to warp.

[Flatfingers]

Looking at this from a gameplay perspective, rather than a "warp exclusion zone" centered on large gravity wells, how about a "warp danger zone" instead?

Make a red/yellow/green indicator part of the ship control UI, and give players the option of whether to risk damage from going to warp in yellow or red gravity zones. Perhaps having a very good Engineer could lower the risk, or reduce damage if any is taken.

There's also the possibility of gravity generators as a weapon that discourages opponent ships from going to warp to escape a fight.... :D

Thoughts?

--Flatfingers

[ronaldheld]

There should be some penalty for using warp drive when you are not supposed to.

[metl]

If we're talking a two second difference at full impulse, why even bother with it? Hell, in Starfleet Academy you could warp straight INTO a planet at point blank and it would just "fade away." Of course, in Legacy, you had to be so far away. All it has to be is a set calculation based on size. If they classify each object (planets, ships, asteroids or anything floating in space) by a size code then it is as simple as, "WarpZone = (objectsizecode) x 1000" Short, simple, easy to process, and can be applied to any object in space. This would also prevent someone from warping out of a fight unless they are far enough away from you. (perhaps reversed though so a little ship could hit and run without being trapped in a large ship's warp zone)

[_Pax_]

If we're talking a two second difference at full impulse, why even bother with it?
Because that's two seconds time in which your opponent (either NPC ships / stations, or in a PvP area, another thinking human being in their starship) can fire at you. Which means, if you misjudge how long you can last in combat, you might go BOOM, instead of WOOSH.

[Sinclair]

My guess is that gravity will not be modeled in game.

For the most part, all it would do is take up processor power to simulate it, but its effects on players would probably be very difficult to detect and see in game. Afterall we are not our avatars in game, and cannot 'feel' the pull of gravity in a game. On a mission by mission bases, I bet there are ways that the game can make it seem like there is a gravity effect without modeling gravity (i.e., diminishing ships thruster power to pull away from a star, making it seem like gravity but really manipulating an easier stat in game).

It is an interesting idea. But there are many other things that probably need a lot more attention in then game than this. That's my two cents.

[cocoa-jin]

Instead of a single distance, though, I think it'd FEEL better if the Warp Exclusion Zone was directly related to teh size of the planet (which, not so incidentally, would relate it to that planet's gravitational field, anyway).

For example: mark out a sphere with the same centerpoint as the planet, but with TWICE the radius. Anywhere within that sphere is a Warp Exclusion Zone.

For Earth, with a radius of ~4,000 miles, it's WEZ woudl have a radius of ~8,000 miles.
For the Moon, with a radius of ~1100 miles, it's WEZ would have a radius of ~2,200 miles.

If those sound too small, just increase the WEZ's multiplier. How about ten times the planet's radius?

For Earth, with a radius of ~4,000 miles, it's WEZ woudl have a radius of ~40,000 miles.
For the Moon, with a radius of ~1100 miles, it's WEZ would have a radius of ~22,000 miles.

... and so on.


I like...make it so Pax!