STO - Free to Play or Pay to Play?

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Hey there, guys!!!

Listen, this is a question I've had ever since I first found out about STO, but I was never able to directly ask until just now, and I'm hoping someone here can answer me. Is Star Trek Online going to be an MMO that's Free-to-Play (Translation: you buy the software, and are able to play at any time as long as the software is installed in your computer and you have an account)? Or is it going to be Pay-to-Play (Translation: same as Free-to-Play, except that you have to pay a monthly fee in order to keep your account active)? I ask because I don't have a job yet, so I'll have to find one in a hurry if it's Pay-to-Play!!!
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[topekaguy1988]

Its going to be pay-to-play.

[knightofhyrule730]

only good games are pay to play. Assume that there will be a monthly fee, which on average is around $15/month.

[jwood299]

It is pay to play man, but don't worry you have about 6 months min to find a job lol

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Oh, I see:(

*sighs* I guess I'm gonna have to start the job-hunt, then.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[NeoWolf06]

i'll probs do it by yearly sub. i couldn't be arsed with paying each month XD

[Evi1Genius]

only good games are pay to play.

Heh, I'd have to disagree with that. But if it is going to be pay monthly then I'll look forward to when Guild Wars2 comes out and that will be a good game. Now thats an MMO where you can simply buy at the store and expect to play without the worry for having to pay for time rather than actual game content.

I bought all the expansions for Guild Wars without the need to do so, Its more worth the money to actually pay for something rather then your own time...

It will be interesting to see what STO's actual payment method will be but I'm willing to skip this game if its pay to play.

Enjoy.

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Heh, I'd have to disagree with that. But if it is going to be pay monthly then I'll look forward to when Guild Wars2 comes out and that will be a good game. Now thats an MMO where you can simply buy at the store and expect to play without the worry for having to pay for time rather than actual game content.

I bought all the expansions for Guild Wars without the need to do so, Its more worth the money to actually pay for something rather then your own time...

It will be interesting to see what STO's actual payment method will be but I'm willing to skip this game if its pay to play.

Enjoy.

I know what you mean, Evi1Genius!!! I've actually played quite a few Free-to-Play MMOs--Guild Wars among them! I only have the Prophecies and Eye of the North expansions, but that still enables a lot of fun. Other Free-to-Play MMOs that I've played are Rappelz (graphics are pretty darn good, and the gameplay's pretty fun, too), RF Online (also a fairly good game, but it's got a few quirks), and Zero Online (Giant Mecha Action, graphics aren't that good, but it's got some potential). I'm probably not going to skip STO if it's Pay-to-Play, but I probably won't play it as much as if it were Free-to-Play, because I already have 4 Free MMOs to choose from.

So, Cryptic, I hope you're monitoring this thread and make STO Free-to-Play. Otherwise, Star Trek Fans with thin wallets might decide to skip your game--or at least not play it as much as they should.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[raldar]

So, Cryptic, I hope you're monitoring this thread and make STO Free-to-Play. Otherwise, Star Trek Fans with thin wallets might decide to skip your game--or at least not play it as much as they should.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

Not going to happen.

And none of the "mmo" you've mentioned(Guild wars in particular) are considered to be "real mmos". Hell even the developers of Guild Wars has said that thier game isn't an mmo.

[Roy_Vash]

Not going to happen.

And none of the "mmo" you've mentioned(Guild wars in particular) are considered to be "real mmos". Hell even the developers of Guild Wars has said that thier game isn't an mmo.

Real mmo or not, GW is a heck of a bang for your not-mmo buck. GW2 may not be so easy to dismiss for the hack and slash genre. I'm just happy for a sci-fi game.

[woody309]

only good games are pay to play. Assume that there will be a monthly fee, which on average is around $15/month.

In general I would agree with this. A subscription fee encourages development to keep the cash rolling in. :D

[ZeframCochrane]

I hope it's pay to play. Not because I have money to burn but because I think it will affect the content.

I want this game to be epic and I'm willing to pay if that's what it takes to make sure it is.

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Don't get me wrong, guys--I will still play this game even if it's Pay-to-Play!! And I was planning to look for a job anyway, with the hunt starting late next month--after all, I need a reliable source of income!!! But I'm not just an MMO player--I'm an all-out game geek!!! (and I treat the term "geek" like a badge of honor) And so I play all sorts of different games, not just MMOs. The main reason I hope that STO is Free-to-Play is that that will free up more of my earnings for the other games I'll certainly end up getting!!!!

And that's the main reason I hope that STO is Free-to-Play. You can treat it as a bad reason if you want--but I believe it is still a valid reason.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[scroll33]

I think both systems have their merits

Pay to play: provides a continuous drip feeding of fixes and content. Expansions are few and far between due to content coming in the form of patches. Great for those who tend to stick with one MMO at a time.

Free play: You buy the game as is, not so much support and additional content is held back for expansions that come at more regular intervals. This method suits those who get bored quickly and move on to the next new shiny but have the freedom to come back and experience the new content when an expansion is released.

There's no doubt you end up paying more in a monthly subscription but on the whole the quality tends to be far higher and the support is better.

[Dext]

I can see it being pay to play but if they offer a one time fee for a life time sub I will go with that. (This would coust about $300 USD maybe $200 but no less)

[scroll33]

I can see it being pay to play but if they offer a one time fee for a life time sub I will go with that. (This would coust about $300 USD maybe $200 but no less)

I would generally not go for a life time sub but this is Startrek and I can see it being an mmo that I would return to more than any other (if I ever left) so I'd probably end up going for a lifetime sub as well.

[k.mpok]

I hope its going to be p2p as most games of this time get more love from Devs.

[KiraYamatoX20A]

I can see it being pay to play but if they offer a one time fee for a life time sub I will go with that. (This would coust about $300 USD maybe $200 but no less)

Yeah, that's probably the best of both worlds--you get to play the game without worrying about your account going inactive because you missed a payment (plus allowing more earnings to go into other things), and the developers still get lots of money to continue developing more content.

I'll play the game no matter what, but if it isn't Free-to-Play, then I'd prefer this kind of Pay-to-Play.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[Evi1Genius]

I hope its going to be p2p as most games of this time get more love from Devs.

lol thats cute, I can see that start trek fans are desperate for a good star trek game and would pay anything and do anything to get it, has there been a lack of them? I wonder why...

It would be interesting to see if any market research was done for this star trek MMO: If the devs are aiming for only the star trek audience then its understandable to pay to play (it will be a fizzle and a pop). If the game is suppose to be competitive and outreach to other audiences as well for a considerably bigger MMO share, then pay to play may not be too inviting. Go for a free to play, (it will be a big bang) expansion packs is the way forward.

Free to play is beneficial for the many, even a vulcun can see the logic in that...hehe bad pun ;)

[Matteis]

Ummm ok, I HOPE it's pay-to-play to ensure a multitude of content.

Think about it, there won't be any excuse as to why new content is not being released. PtP for the win, imo.

Can't wait, now if we can get some kind of revelation as to when this might be, that would be great. The official ST website still lists this game as being beta-tested in 2006 with a targeted released date of 2007, that's despicable, that means no one has thought to update that part of the site in like 3 years.

Talk about a mothballed project.

[Evi1Genius]

Free to play doesn't seem to stop Guild Wars from being updated everyday...

[raldar]

Free to play doesn't seem to stop Guild Wars from being updated everyday...

It's obvious from your posts that

1: You have no experience with any real mmos.

2: You have no concept of what it takes to run and maintain a good mmo.


This is going to be a pay to play game. That is not up for any debate or vote. If you don't want to pay, that's fine. Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else.

[Tamgros]

It's obvious from your posts that

1: You have no experience with any real mmos.

2: You have no concept of what it takes to run and maintain a good mmo.


This is going to be a pay to play game. That is not up for any debate or vote. If you don't want to pay, that's fine. Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else.

QFT. This poster could use a little more tact IMO ;), but he's right about most of it. MMOs just have so much more content and support than a free to play game, it's not even close.

There are some stigmas involved in paying monthly fees. I don't think a lot of these stigmas should apply to a well run MMO though. But, if you are really worried about this, you could just go month to month. That way you could stop paying at any time and don't have to worry about contracts.

[Evi1Genius]

This is going to be a pay to play game. That is not up for any debate or vote. If you don't want to pay, that's fine. Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else.

lol ok i totally agree, its self-centred people like you, who are expected to pay monthly.

I can see where you want this game to go.
"Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else."
wow that must mean the world to you. Less players in the game the better for you right?
Shame I thought this game had potential...

Enjoy

[almeidag]

I think it will be pay to play, but I wouldn't mind a 1 month free trial ;)

[KL0k]

dunno if someone already pointed it out, but the problem with comparing any pay2play-mmo with guildwars free2pay method is simply just because they have no centered server costs, cause its all instanced and the person playing an instance is hosting it. and you just cant realize this with a central-server-based method aslong as you dont have another title that "absorbs losses". like.. blizzard for example could do it, with their WoW-moneycow, and if you dont have a moneycow like this you just have to relate on this.
just try to imagin the number sales and costs for permanent ads needed just to absorb this. thats just BS in a financial way. so you can expect this title to be pay2play. 99,99~%.

still i would love to see this game free2play, since i dont have that much money, too. but thats just how the industry works... sadly.

[raldar]

lol ok i totally agree, its self-centred people like you, who are expected to pay monthly.

I can see where you want this game to go.
"Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else."
wow that must mean the world to you. Less players in the game the better for you right?
Shame I thought this game had potential...

Enjoy

1: If this game is a sucess or a failure means exactly zero to me. It's no skin off my nose. I'm just a casual fan of mmos and Star Trek so I can take it or leave it.

2: Show me proof that fees equal less players.

3: This game has huge potential. A fee is not going to be the cause of it's sucess or failure. The sucess or failure will be based on gameplay, graphics, storyline, and userability.

4: How you figure I'm self centered is beyond me. But *shrug*, whatever. You're nothing but font on a screen to me.

[The_Sisko]

So, Cryptic, I hope you're monitoring this thread and make STO Free-to-Play. Otherwise, Star Trek Fans with thin wallets might decide to skip your game--or at least not play it as much as they should.
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

Wow...

I think you must have built up an immunity to free-to-play MMOs because in my experience they are almost always really bad.

I'm guessing you've never played games like World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, EVE Online, or any of the other pay-to-play MMOs that are on the market.

[knightofhyrule730]

2: Show me proof that fees equal less players.


World of Warcraft. 12+ million players? what? yeah.

[raldar]

World of Warcraft. 12+ million players? what? yeah.

*slaps head* Why didn't I think of that. Without a fee WoW could have had what...100, 200 billion players. Shoot, I guess my stance on fees just gtot tossed out the window.


Stupid Raldar....stupid, stupid,stupid. :)

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Wow...

I think you must have built up an immunity to free-to-play MMOs because in my experience they are almost always really bad.

I'm guessing you've never played games like World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, EVE Online, or any of the other pay-to-play MMOs that are on the market.

Actually, I have played a little bit of World of Warcraft and City of Heroes--the only thing is that for the longest time, I couldn't play MMOs at home (No Wireless Network in the house until last November or December). Plus, like I said, I have limited funds, and those almost always went to single-player games. The only opportunities I have to play WoW and CoH is when I go to visit my Cousin--and he lives about three states away from me, so that trip is done Twice a Year (Once in the Summer, once in the Winter [under normal conditions--sometimes my family {I still live at home with my parents} has to skip one or both trips for a given year]). So, while I HAVE played WoW and CoH, It's not all that often. The first MMO that I actually got on my Laptop was the Free-to-Play MMO Rappelz. And Rappelz is a pretty good game--the graphics are as good as WoW if not better, the gameplay is really intuitive, there's a lot of really good content, and the Auction House System can net a lot of in-game cash. Granted, you need to pay for special in-game currency used to obtain rare items, but you can play without obtaining those items, or purchasing that special currency.

So don't say that Free-to-Play MMOs are almost always really bad--you just never stumbled upon the good ones, that's all. And STO would be one of those good ones if it goes the Free-to-Play route.

However, if it goes the Pay-to-Play route, I'd prefer what Dext was talking about (a lifetime subscription fee) over a monthly fee--heck, I'd prefer a yearly fee, or even a quarterly fee, over a monthly one!!!
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"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[almeidag]

However, if it goes the Pay-to-Play route, I'd prefer what Dext was talking about (a lifetime subscription fee) over a monthly fee--heck, I'd prefer a yearly fee, or even a quarterly fee, over a monthly one!!!


Actually, I think they might be able to give us an option to pay on a monthly basis, trimester basis, semester basis or yearly basis. Perhaps some kind of discount if you pay a whole year, instead month by month.

[Sonaos]

Hm, considering my allowance is the only money I get monthy, I hope that they'll also have the discounted yearly fee.. either way I'm going to try and play this game and stick to it, it just looks too dang fun and quite possibly the only good MMORPG I could play.

And I has my reasons for not liking/being able to play other MMORPGS, so there. ; )

[SelorKiith]

Why does this topic comes up every month? Why do so much people want STO to be a game like Runes of Magic, Taikodom, Runescape or any other generic low profile F2P Game, that won't come with any good updates in years?

[Fenrir55]

[QUOTE=raldar;481425]1: If this game is a sucess or a failure means exactly zero to me. It's no skin off my nose. I'm just a casual fan of mmos and Star Trek so I can take it or leave it.

2: Show me proof that fees equal less players.

im proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month maybe 300$ for life but that is pushing it.

[Fenrir55]

and as for WOW - i dont like the graphics (guild wars graphics are better then WOW)

city of heroes - its ok i wouldn't pay 2 play it though

yet again i stand by the life time fee

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Actually, I think they might be able to give us an option to pay on a monthly basis, trimester basis, semester basis or yearly basis. Perhaps some kind of discount if you pay a whole year, instead month by month.

That's good. *breathes sigh of relief* A yearly fee, especially a discounted one, is MUCH better than a monthly fee!!! I'll probably go with the Yearly Fee Option if they don't have a Lifetime Fee Option.:D

[Tamgros]

I think it will be pay to play, but I wouldn't mind a 1 month free trial ;)
One month usually comes with the game. ie you won't have to start paying the monthly fee until one month after you start playing. I'd imagine they use this for STO because it's pretty common practice.

dunno if someone already pointed it out, but the problem with comparing any pay2play-mmo with guildwars free2pay method is simply just because they have no centered server costs, cause its all instanced and the person playing an instance is hosting it. and you just cant realize this with a central-server-based method aslong as you dont have another title that "absorbs losses". like.. blizzard for example could do it, with their WoW-moneycow, and if you dont have a moneycow like this you just have to relate on this.
just try to imagin the number sales and costs for permanent ads needed just to absorb this. thats just BS in a financial way. so you can expect this title to be pay2play. 99,99~%.

still i would love to see this game free2play, since i dont have that much money, too. but thats just how the industry works... sadly.

This was a very well informed post. I'm sorry that you may not have the funds to play, but you seem to understand why a lot of us like the true MMO system .

Why does this topic comes up every month? Why do so much people want STO to be a game like Runes of Magic, Taikodom, Runescape or any other generic low profile F2P Game, that won't come with any good updates in years?
haha yeah, seriously, what gives? There are a lot of ST mods that not only are free to play, they are free to download. If you want free to play, go to those. If you want a game on the game on the scale of an MMO, come to STO. The difference of scale will obviously cost some money though.


im proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month maybe 300$ for life but that is pushing it.

One observation isn't proof of the 'more popular claim'. The WoW example is much better evidence, but still isn't proof. The only way to truely prove something is to get info about everyone in the world, and everyone who is going to enter the world who could possible play either way. Obviously this isn't feasible. The Vulcan in me knows that logic wins out in situations when we can't prove.

Logic:
The popularity of STO will be determined more by how good the game is, and not its cost structure as long as it is reasonable. If it is P2P, then Cryptic will be able to continually support the game, add content, support its servers, evolve and grow. If it is F2P then It may be set up like Guild Wars and can be sure to have less growth and evolution.

Both systems have their merits, but I'd much rather have a P2P because I like games on an epic scale. Having it be ST based is awesome too :D

[dryzabone]

Heh, I'd have to disagree with that. But if it is going to be pay monthly then I'll look forward to when Guild Wars2 comes out and that will be a good game. Now thats an MMO where you can simply buy at the store and expect to play without the worry for having to pay for time rather than actual game content.

I bought all the expansions for Guild Wars without the need to do so, Its more worth the money to actually pay for something rather then your own time...

It will be interesting to see what STO's actual payment method will be but I'm willing to skip this game if its pay to play.

Enjoy.
Its pay to play for sure. And really the only reason Guild Wars is for free is because nobody wants to pay for that crap.

[raldar]

2: Show me proof that fees equal less players.

im proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month maybe 300$ for life but that is pushing it.

Ok, you're one person. Prove that your one non-play won't be balanced out by someone who does play.

Not once have any of you "I won't play if I have to pay" people ever proved that fees equal less numbers. Not once.

[raldar]

That's good. *breathes sigh of relief* A yearly fee, especially a discounted one, is MUCH better than a monthly fee!!! I'll probably go with the Yearly Fee Option if they don't have a Lifetime Fee Option.:D

Most mmos I've played offer discounts if you go more than month to month.

Usualy it goes:

1 month
3 months
6 months
1 year

With discounts for everything but the one month. Usualy a buck or two off per month per package.

[Evi1Genius]

Originally Posted by Fang_of_Fenrir
im proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month maybe 300$ for life but that is pushing it.

One observation isn't proof of the 'more popular claim'. The WoW example is much better evidence, but still isn't proof. The only way to truely prove something is to get info about everyone in the world, and everyone who is going to enter the world who could possible play either way. Obviously this isn't feasible. The Vulcan in me knows that logic wins out in situations when we can't prove.



I am also proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99.99991% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month. I could buy an Xbox360 for $300!!.

[KL0k]

This was a very well informed post. I'm sorry that you may not have the funds to play, but you seem to understand why a lot of us like the true MMO system .

thanks :)
and yes, i dunno if i will have the money for it, thats one of the reasons why i would love to get a trial/demo/beta/anything, so i can decide if its worth it or not.
and sure, i can understand it. i was playing matrix online for a half yr with ppl from america and the uk, and it was fun and wouldnt been possible with another system.
on the other hand it would make me sad if i cant play it just cause i cant afford the fee, since im a trek-fan since... man.. i dunno lol.. 20 yrs? and for me, this game seems to get even closer to the "trek-feelin" then bridge commander. so its kinda hard. :)

[Sinclair]

I'm glad its pay for play. To me that means that the devs will receive ongoing funding to continue to upgrade and expand the game. Without that, the dev team would need to turn to in-game advertising or regular boxed-game upgrades, the first of which would not be appropriate in a Trek MMO (if its appropriate in any) and the second of which is ok but not optimimum for this kind of game IMHO.

[lcdman]

I never minded payin to play for a small fee for any good game but here is the problem.......unlike all game collections you buy, all pay to play ones will force you to choose between them its not like you can have a choice what you want to play today its what you can afford to play such as how many games you can afford in your collection of charges on a credit card.
Problem #2 is a larger factor....when you have children want to play and for arguments sake you let them play how much will it cost now on top of the other issues.... :confused:

[Evi1Genius]

I'm glad its pay for play. To me that means that the devs will receive ongoing funding to continue to upgrade and expand the game. Without that, the dev team would need to turn to in-game advertising or regular boxed-game upgrades, the first of which would not be appropriate in a Trek MMO (if its appropriate in any) and the second of which is ok but not optimimum for this kind of game IMHO.

From what iv seen pay to play games are slower to upgrade and expand as there really is no great incentive to do so. I actually want to see regular boxed-game upgrades for this game, that way just like Guild wars and Warhammer 40k I get to pick what upgrade I want when I want (maybe all of them) that could really diversify the game. You could have the 'Romulan pack', the Borg pack, Dominion Wars pack etc.

If subscription fees are applied I can't see the long-term appeal of this game unless it is somehow capable of making every current WoW player pay for another MMO, any chance of most of them being star trek fans too?

[doam]

From what iv seen pay to play games are slower to upgrade and expand as there really is no great incentive to do so. I actually want to see regular boxed-game upgrades for this game, that way just like Guild wars and Warhammer 40k I get to pick what upgrade I want when I want (maybe all of them) that could really diversify the game. You could have the 'Romulan pack', the Borg pack, Dominion Wars pack etc.

If subscription fees are applied I can't see the long-term appeal of this game unless it is somehow capable of making every current WoW player pay for another MMO, any chance of most of them being star trek fans too?

Really? You can't? It's pretty frightening that you're incapable of comprehending such a blatently obvious and factually driven scenario. A little sad, too.

[Evi1Genius]

Really? You can't? It's pretty frightening that you're incapable of comprehending such a blatently obvious and factually driven scenario. A little sad, too.

Mostly every Senior member I have seen in this forum so far are that whacked...how many are there in total cuz I dont think its enough to keep this game running lol

[eNDIE]

well if you cant pay 10-15$ a month to play then you probably have some other concerns in you life that needs to be fixed. Its just a game

[doam]

Mostly every Senior member I have seen in this forum so far are that whacked...how many are there in total cuz I dont think its enough to keep this game running lol

Actually there are a number of adults in the world which work for a living and are capable of spending $15 a month on a video game. Especially since it is cheaper than most other activities and yields much better returns than the more expensive activities. lol.

[Evi1Genius]

It is just a game and I don't buy games with subscription fees, doesn't mean I cant afford it, I buy games based on its quality, sub fees are a drawback.

[eNDIE]

ok i guess you wont be buying it hope you find what you are looking for.

[KO_Gilligan]

log on to http://sendkocookies.com to play

[SenshiBat]

Sell in game Advert rights and or Keep it B.net like Front end box purchase..
Two options to build on

1>Sell Naming Rights Like European Football teams [soccer] Do..
You can customized but never ever cover our sponcers Label :)

2> We love you man.. here's something free.. we now have to make more games to survive so don't worry about us..

3> Small PTP reasonable rates.. >define Reasonable in CA[USA] cost of living terms..

4> Reasons Why, Server time for this large a programme ,DEV Team need to eat man We stimulate their economy they stimulate our gaming exp with a supported product after ship. They pay to fix it
they pay to DEV add-on's ,

They roll over proceeds to advance new projects for Atari..
and the Still to be ID's 3rd game they are hiring to make..
5>Champions on-Line will help get us STO sooner if it goes over well..

8>Why because talent can be re-task. to accelerate the Alpha.
So support you local super hero if You like Vulcans ,Klingons, Tribbles, interiors , Borg or Quark's
--------------------------------------------
promoted form cannon fodder to 'professional meat-sheild".

[Evi1Genius]

Sell in game Advert rights and or Keep it B.net like Front end box purchase..
Two options to build on

1>Sell Naming Rights Like European Football teams [soccer] Do..
You can customized but never ever cover our sponcers Label :)

2> We love you man.. here's something free.. we now have to make more games to survive so don't worry about us..

3> Small PTP reasonable rates.. >define Reasonable in CA[USA] cost of living terms..
--------------------------------------------
promoted form cannon fodder to 'professional meat-sheild".

Sure don't hesitate to give them a blank check ;)

[Captain_Intrepid]

I'd say that waiting for what business/payment model they use for Champions Online would be the best indicator of what it would be like for Star Trek Online, until we find out otherwise when STO is ready to launch.

[raldar]

It is just a game and I don't buy games with subscription fees, doesn't mean I cant afford it, I buy games based on its quality, sub fees are a drawback.

So why are you here? You've already stated you won't be playing so why continue to post? Unless you're intentionaly being a troll you have no reason to be here.

[Evi1Genius]

So why are you here? You've already stated you won't be playing so why continue to post? Unless you're intentionaly being a troll you have no reason to be here.

Trolling? to you I'm just being controversial, I do not have to go by your point of view and by that you take offence? You said this:

4: You're nothing but font on a screen to me.

Why are you now disturbed by me not agreeing with you? don't bother to answer that because you are simply being a troll for insisting to close the topic anyway. You said this:

This is going to be a pay to play game. That is not up for any debate or vote. If you don't want to pay, that's fine. Your bandwqidth useage will be taken up by someone else.

I'd say its a forum to talk about related stuff so there should be no problem in having a debate. Go ahead and advise a moderator but remember you are going off topic.

[raldar]

Trolling? to you I'm just being controversial, I do not have to go by your point of view and by that you take offence? You said this:
Why are you now disturbed by me not agreeing with you? don't bother to answer that because you are simply being a troll for insisting to close the topic anyway. You said this:

I'd say its a forum to talk about related stuff so there should be no problem in having a debate. Go ahead and advise a moderator but remember you are going off topic.

I'm far from "offended" or "disturbed". But I fail to see why you continue to post on a game forum that you have stated time and again that you will not be playing. You put your self worth too high if you believe you bother me in the slightest.

And not once has anyone asked to close this thread(even though it should). This topic comes up every few weeks and nothing has changed .

[lordoffiling]

There are those who have a problem with the "Pay to Play" model, obviously. They insist that since they bought the game they should be able to play it as much as they want on Cryptic servers for free.

Think it through, though. Each user who logs on to play uses a certain amount of bandwidth in his play session. Someone's going to charge Cryptic for it, therefore someone has to pay for it. Your purchase of the original box won't cover it for very long, I assure you. You want to keep playing, you have to keep paying for your usage. Just the facts of the genre. There was a time, a few years back, when I could have quoted you the exact figures, but I've been out of the business for a while. Let me assure you that it is *not* a small number, though.

Plus there are other expenses. All of that hardware they run the game on will need maintenance. Parts will go bad. Upgrades will need to happen. Money needs to come in to pay for those parts and to pay the people who will remove the old and install the new.

If you want fresh content in your MMO, you'd better be prepared to pay a talented group of artists, programmers, animators, and sound guys for their time.

What about Customer Service? If something's wrong with your account, you want someone at a desk at Cryptic to pick up the phone and answer you when you call in asking about it, right? There's some more money they need.

Plus those guys will need a building to work in, computers to work on, electricity to run them, water for their toilets, and a janitorial staff to keep it clean.

The list, my friends, goes on and on and on, and the simple truth is this: Box sales alone will not cover it all. End of story. You want a good, solid MMO? Be prepared to pay the fee.

[Evi1Genius]

I'm far from "offended" or "disturbed". But I fail to see why you continue to post on a game forum that you have stated time and again that you will not be playing. You put your self worth too high if you believe you bother me in the slightest.

And not once has anyone asked to close this thread(even though it should). This topic comes up every few weeks and nothing has changed .

Yet you keep posting on such topics...

[takiwa]

SWG taught me that I will not ever pay for a lifetime subscription. Though for the 5 years I played I spent $900 on one account, though at times I ran as many as 4 accounts, I did not like how they changed the game after releasing it, and I would be upset if I had paid for a lifetime subscription.
But who knows, I will make that decision after I play around with the game a bit first.
Takiwa

[Thibor]

It is just a game and I don't buy games with subscription fees, doesn't mean I cant afford it, I buy games based on its quality, sub fees are a drawback.

Compare it to your other forms of entertainment and hobbies that you enjoy.
MMOs that I get into I tend to play a minimum of 8-10hrs/wk, often quite a bit more. And even at 8hrs/wk it's less than fifty cents an hour for my entertainment.

Your $15/mo comes out to ~$3.75/wk. That's roughly the price of buying one pint and tipping the barmaid (if you'r drinking domestic anyways ... forget the tip if it's an import.)
Or, a new paperback book every two weeks.
Maybe a movie in a theater every three weeks but not enough for a drink-n-popcorn to go with it.
Or after 3mo worth you'd have enough for one UFC ppv.

But hey, it's up to each person to decide what makes it worth it to them. You want to get caught up in your alleged principal of it, power to ya. Plenty of us can look at the amount of entertainment we will get out of it though on an ongoing basis and happily agree to pay $15/mo because it's an entertainment bargain.

[Evi1Genius]

It would be interesting to see how a MMO with subscription fees would work on game consoles, Microsoft and Sony might have their own concerns.

Dreamcast did have something similar...
Anyone know of a game out there presently with 3rd party subscription fees on a console?

[Ytram]

It would be interesting to see how a MMO with subscription fees would work on game consoles, Microsoft and Sony might have their own concerns.

Dreamcast did have something similar...
Anyone know of a game out there presently with 3rd party subscription fees on a console?
Final Fantasy XI and Phantasy Star Universe.

Actually, I don't know if the second one is P2P, but I know FFXI is.

[Ytram]

I'd say that waiting for what business/payment model they use for Champions Online would be the best indicator of what it would be like for Star Trek Online, until we find out otherwise when STO is ready to launch.
They have already said that they will be going with a subscription-based business model with CO. They said it would be competitive with other MMOs out currently, which I'm sure just means it'll be $15/month. There was also mention of 3/6/12 month subs with price breaks.

[raldar]

They said it would be competitive with other MMOs out currently, which I'm sure just means it'll be $15/month. There was also mention of 3/6/12 month subs with price breaks.

Which is a pretty standard business model these day. And one that seems to work quite well no matter what the detractors say.

[KiraYamatoX20A]

OK, since I started this Thread, I guess I should probably be the one to finish it.

I started by asking if STO was going to be Free-to-Play or Pay-to-Play. Judging by most comments, it's going to be Pay-to-Play, with options for Monthly Fees, Tri-Monthly Fees, Semi-Yearly (6-month) Fees, and Yearly Fees, with discounts going for the higher-length subscriptions. I'll probably go with the Yearly Fee Option either when the game comes out or I get a job to pay for it, whichever comes last. I simply opened this thread to figure out what I needed to do in regards to that, and I ended up re-sparking a huge debate on the subject--something I had no intention of doing.:(

Let me just say that I didn't want to drag people into this kind of argument--I just wanted to see what I needed to do in terms of the game and payment options, and I have figured that out. I apologize for any undue aggravation caused by the argument this thread restarted, and I hope you will all forgive me.:o

If anyone knows how, please either remove this thread or lock it so that no further posts on this thread can be made--Preferably the second option, so that people can at least learn from this thread. Thank you!!

[Tamgros]

One observation isn't proof of the 'more popular claim'. The WoW example is much better evidence, but still isn't proof. The only way to truely prove something is to get info about everyone in the world, and everyone who is going to enter the world who could possible play either way. Obviously this isn't feasible. The Vulcan in me knows that logic wins out in situations when we can't prove.


I am also proof right here if its a pay 2 play i write it off 99.99991% of the time but if its like guild wars i would actually buy that or if there were in-game purks that you can buy then i would but i wouldnt pay 15$ a month. I could buy an Xbox360 for $300!!.

I'm really hoping this post of yours was a joke. I just got done explaining to someone why an incomplete set of observations isn't proof for that type of claim, not to mention only one or two observations, then you said the exact same thing.:confused:

I think that your posts just show your general lack of interest in playing one video game. You write off STO for a monthly fee, but would enjoy paying$300 for an Xbox360, which would equate to over a year and a half of STO sub, potentially two years if they add in discounts! It really just seems as if you don't appreciate the type of experience that one MMO can give you for an extended period of time. A lot of people really only need one good MMO to satisfy most of their gaming needs. :D

[Thibor]

A lot of people really only need one good MMO to satisfy most of their gaming needs. :D

A good MMO is generally what allows me, without much of *twitch* factor, to ignore most games the moment they release and instead wait 3 or 4 months until they're on sale for $10-$20 off the original price. MMOs are one of the few, being that your time investment has a lot to do where you sit in the progression chain, that I actually tend to get right at launch, at least if the beta looks promising.

[Evi1Genius]

I'm really hoping this post of yours was a joke. I just got done explaining to someone why an incomplete set of observations isn't proof for that type of claim, not to mention only one or two observations, then you said the exact same thing.:confused:

I think that your posts just show your general lack of interest in playing one video game. You write off STO for a monthly fee, but would enjoy paying$300 for an Xbox360, which would equate to over a year and a half of STO sub, potentially two years if they add in discounts! It really just seems as if you don't appreciate the type of experience that one MMO can give you for an extended period of time. A lot of people really only need one good MMO to satisfy most of their gaming needs. :D

I don't entirely understand your post but yea I was just messing, I just followed on the quote of Fang_of_Fenrir (was a good comment)
But i would rather pay $300 for an Xbox360 than for a 1lifetime subscription on a single game.
Even if it was $1 a month, I wouldn't buy-in cuz I think its the wrong paying method for any game (not competitive, doesn't appeal).

I play Guild wars, il be playing GuildWars2 as well and if "hypothetically" STO were to also run with no subscription fee I would simply get that too including its expansions. I like to play a variety of games I don't want any subscription fee to get in the way of other games.

You could then say "fine don't buy it...n00b" but I won't mind, it just shows the spiteful atmosphere of the STO community. :D

[entrailsgalore]

I don't entirely understand your post but yea I was just messing, I just followed on the quote of Fang_of_Fenrir (was a good comment)
But i would rather pay $300 for an Xbox360 than for a 1lifetime subscription on a single game.
Even if it was $1 a month, I wouldn't buy-in cuz I think its the wrong paying method for any game (not competitive, doesn't appeal).

I play Guild wars, il be playing GuildWars2 as well and if "hypothetically" STO were to also run with no subscription fee I would simply get that too including its expansions. I like to play a variety of games I don't want any subscription fee to get in the way of other games.

You could then say "fine don't buy it...n00b" but I won't mind, it just shows the spiteful atmosphere of the STO community. :D

"Hypothetically" if it was going to be free to play, you would be playing it. Unfortunately it will most likely be subscription based, so that probably means you won't be playing STO. So the question that was asked " Why are you still here if you aren't going to be playing STO?" is a valid one.

I think now a days you should almost assume that a new MMO will be pay to play. Most major MMO's released are pay to play unless they have in game advertising such as Anarchy Online. Guild Wars is a fun and great game, but it is not star trek nor is it a fully persistent MMO. I am sure Guild Wars 2 will be fun as well but I am sure it will most definitely NOT be star trek either. There isn't a lot of good SciFi MMo's out there these days, so STO should be fun. Anyways I already spend too much money a month on MMO subs, whats another 15 bucks?

[KO_Gilligan]

OK, since I started this Thread, I guess I should probably be the one to finish it.

I started by asking if STO was going to be Free-to-Play or Pay-to-Play. Judging by most comments, it's going to be Pay-to-Play, with options for Monthly Fees, Tri-Monthly Fees, Semi-Yearly (6-month) Fees, and Yearly Fees, with discounts going for the higher-length subscriptions. I'll probably go with the Yearly Fee Option either when the game comes out or I get a job to pay for it, whichever comes last. I simply opened this thread to figure out what I needed to do in regards to that, and I ended up re-sparking a huge debate on the subject--something I had no intention of doing.:(

Let me just say that I didn't want to drag people into this kind of argument--I just wanted to see what I needed to do in terms of the game and payment options, and I have figured that out. I apologize for any undue aggravation caused by the argument this thread restarted, and I hope you will all forgive me.:o

If anyone knows how, please either remove this thread or lock it so that no further posts on this thread can be made--Preferably the second option, so that people can at least learn from this thread. Thank you!!


Thread creating regrets much?

not likely that you should post your demand to the developers for an answer to us here, and then demand the discussion end because you aren't getting an answer.

Next time ask Cryptic directly, not us. I say keep the thread, maybe it will still be a topic of discussion in a few days when the next person is thinking about asking, and finds this instead.

[raldar]

Next time ask Cryptic directly, not us. I say keep the thread, maybe it will still be a topic of discussion in a few days when the next person is thinking about asking, and finds this instead.

And you know as well as I do that the next person will see this thread, figure it can't possibly contain the answer and make a new thread. And we will have to go through this all over again.

But to the OPs credit(demand that Cryptic pay attention to this thread aside) did say he'll probably end up playing this game anyway.

[KO_Gilligan]

And you know as well as I do that the next person will see this thread, figure it can't possibly contain the answer and make a new thread. And we will have to go through this all over again.

But to the OPs credit(demand that Cryptic pay attention to this thread aside) did say he'll probably end up playing this game anyway.

word.........

I was going to go on about my ideas for non-immersion breaking, ad sponsored play, but you all have heard that old bit

[SenshiBat]

Sure don't hesitate to give them a blank check ;)

Right some restraint should be shown if they Do a John Romero and all get Red Ferrari's I Would become Concerned ;)

To gain product identity this far out from launch you can run risk of The great Special of hypothesizing..

It is the great think tank of Cryptic Forums.. Where a little information can go along way down a parallel track until corrected.

They see our Ask Cryptics pick a few and if the one we're hot about is not in the mix..
Confusion may and does occur..

To navigate around that Asteroid field takes homework..

That's why I let KO do all the heavy work..

Then sit back at smile at some of the Devils advocates that Followed a we hate Jack Parade to stalk Cryptic.. to their new dream..
Others genuinely confused through lack of knowledge on what Cryptics doing.. Ask Leading or reflective and some probing questions..

Still others use Capitol letters for whole sentences attacking Cryptic Staff by name..

This is just a game forum . If they have been mean to you or you think they have and you are conserned try working with the system. If they fail you in a fair attempt to solve a disagrement with them.. Appeal

[cairdathyl]

I dont think that you can autiomatically rule out the fact that STO might not be pay by the month. I strongly diagreee with the assumption that all good mmos are pay by the month And guild wars is an mmo no matter what some Dumb a's think! i would be disapointed if it is pay by the month because unless you have absolutley no life your not going to play STO forever so why waste hundreds of dollars paying for it by the month?

[Evertras]

Ok, you're one person. Prove that your one non-play won't be balanced out by someone who does play.

Not once have any of you "I won't play if I have to pay" people ever proved that fees equal less numbers. Not once.

I won't play it if it's free to play. I'd rather money go towards content generation that's meaningful and deep.

Now it's even again. :)

[cairdathyl]

I won't play it if it's free to play. I'd rather money go towards content generation that's meaningful and deep.

Now it's even again. :)

SOME PEOPLE NEED TO GET IT UP THEIR FAT HEADS THAT STO IS A BUISNESS AND THAT THE FACT THAT YOU OBVIOSLY ARE EITHER RICH, FAT AND OR HAVE COMPLETELY NO LIFE MEANS THAT YOU WOULD PAY WHAT IT TAKES TO PLAY THE GAME BUT OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE REALTHINGS TO DO DONT SIT AROUND AND PLAY COMPUTER GAMES ALL DAY! STO NEEDS MOMENTUM AND THE AVERAGE PERSON CAN'T RESONABLY PAY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY A GAME THAT THEYRE GOING TO QUIT IN 4-5 YEARS

[cairdathyl]

I won't play it if it's free to play. I'd rather money go towards content generation that's meaningful and deep.

Now it's even again. :)

NOW IT'S EVEN

[Evertras]

SOME PEOPLE NEED TO GET IT UP THEIR FAT HEADS THAT STO IS A BUISNESS AND THAT THE FACT THAT YOU OBVIOSLY ARE EITHER RICH, FAT AND OR HAVE COMPLETELY NO LIFE MEANS THAT YOU WOULD PAY WHAT IT TAKES TO PLAY THE GAME BUT OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE REALTHINGS TO DO DONT SIT AROUND AND PLAY COMPUTER GAMES ALL DAY! STO NEEDS MOMENTUM AND THE AVERAGE PERSON CAN'T RESONABLY PAY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY A GAME THAT THEYRE GOING TO QUIT IN 4-5 YEARS

The caps lock is strong with this one.

[cairdathyl]

The caps lock is strong with this one.

tHE CAPS LOCK IS STRONG BECAUSE YOU OBVOUSLY CANNOT SEE VERY WELL. IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY EVEN VAGUE SENSE OF BUISNESS!

[Condemnation]

I dont think that you can autiomatically rule out the fact that STO might not be pay by the month. I strongly diagreee with the assumption that all good mmos are pay by the month And guild wars is an mmo no matter what some Dumb a's think! i would be disapointed if it is pay by the month because unless you have absolutley no life your not going to play STO forever so why waste hundreds of dollars paying for it by the month?

I love people with no sense of pattern recognition.



Every other quality MMO game has been pay to play. Every single one.

By quality i mean they contain,

-content updates,
-quality community both in numbers and in behavior,
-a story line that goes somewhere,
-end game content that keeps you coming back and is not self defeating,
-pvp that actually means something,

By this definition, WoW has been an abysmal failure, as well as Guild Wars (assuming you can even classify it as an MMO) and i can honestly say that there are no free to play MMO's out there now or in the past that have met the definition of a good quality MMO. Paying for an MMO pays the people who design it, meaning those people will probably go on to build another MMO for you to enjoy and they will do it better the next time. That's what drives innovation and progress. Not getting whatever you want for free.

I for one will be happy to pay 15 bucks a month to play this game since it will benefit me in the long run with better games and quality service. Hell i spend that for a couple burritos from Chipotles. Yea, it's all about greed and self interest and im ok with it. Why should i sacrifice, and why should the developers sacrifice their time and money to make a game just so you can play. They deserve fair value for their work and im an honest guy, i believe in fair value for fair value. If i say 15 bucks a month is a fair price and the developers say its a fair price, then its a fare price and thats the end of it. I'm betting you don't work for free, and i sure as hell don't, Would you be willing to go to work all day and not get payed? I doubt it. Why should you expect the game designers and developers to do something you wouldn't.

Thread over. Find something else to whine about.

[Evertras]

tHE CAPS LOCK IS STRONG BECAUSE YOU OBVOUSLY CANNOT SEE VERY WELL. IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY EVEN VAGUE SENSE OF BUISNESS!

Show me a budget sheet for a continuing development of an MMO based on a pay-once model. This includes a full team of artists, designers, programmers, and QA testers on a reasonably competitive salary. Ready, GO!

You seriously can't find $15 a month? That's the price of a single movie these days. Learn to budget your entertainment.

[cairdathyl]

I won't play it if it's free to play. I'd rather money go towards content generation that's meaningful and deep.

Now it's even again. :)
ONCWE AGAIN SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO LIFE YOU APEAR TO BE ONE OF THEM. PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU CAN!

[Evertras]

ONCWE AGAIN SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO LIFE YOU APEAR TO BE ONE OF THEM. PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU CAN!

You're the one screaming at someone on an internet forum for a game that isn't even out yet. I dunno, you tell me. :)

[cairdathyl]

You cannot scream at somone with letters and words i am simply trying to drive home a point

[cairdathyl]

I could easily find 15 dollars a month but I dont see the reason to if I am going to quit this game in 4-5 years

[Evertras]

You cannot scream at somone with letters and words i am simply trying to drive home a point

Raising the volume of my voice isn't screaming, it's only driving home a point. Why does everyone hate me at meetings?

[cairdathyl]

first of all your not addresing the question an second once again letters on a computer cannot amke any noise whatsoever

[Evertras]

first of all your not addresing the question an second once again letters on a computer cannot amke any noise whatsoever

Which obnoxiously presented question am I not addressing?

[cairdathyl]

The question of why you should blow money on a game your going to quit in 4-5 years

[cairdathyl]

STO could break the traditional mold it is unlikely but possible

[Evertras]

The question of why you should blow money on a game your going to quit in 4-5 years

Why pay for anything you're going to get rid of in 4-5 years? Why do I pay my car payments when I'll get a new car in 4-5 years? Why do I pay for my apartment every month when I'll be moving soon?

A more important question might be, why would I pay for anything I don't explicitly need at all? Because I want to do something more than work, eat, and sleep.

In this case I'm paying for entertainment. I give them money, they give me entertainment. I could instead budget that money towards things like going out to movies, restaurants with friends, buying other games/consoles, maybe a new speaker system would be cool, other electronic gadgets... and I can still do all that, but that $15/month can fit in there nicely on its own.

[OokieSpookie]

The lifetime sub that you can get in Lord of the Rings Online when you are one of the founders is a fantastic idea and made me buy two accounts.
I also have no issue paying for a full expansion as long as there are regular free updates.
Good content takes time and takes resources.

[Deathclock]

Hey there, guys!!!

Listen, this is a question I've had ever since I first found out about STO, but I was never able to directly ask until just now, and I'm hoping someone here can answer me. Is Star Trek Online going to be an MMO that's Free-to-Play (Translation: you buy the software, and are able to play at any time as long as the software is installed in your computer and you have an account)? Or is it going to be Pay-to-Play (Translation: same as Free-to-Play, except that you have to pay a monthly fee in order to keep your account active)? I ask because I don't have a job yet, so I'll have to find one in a hurry if it's Pay-to-Play!!!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

The only way to make a game like this worth playing in this day & age, is to make them pay to play.
Im hopeing for not more then $15.00, but it is Star Trek, & everything Star Trek is usually more expensive.

[Rahyuht]

Kinda of a dumb question :) No Insult Intended.However yeah Star Trek Online will be P2P.Chances are $15.00 a month.I'd like It to be a little cheaper however like $10.00 a month.Doubt that happens & oh well the norm Is fine with me.

I always had this Idea for Family Plan Subscriptions doubt It happens,but would be kinda cool.Like my family can play so I wouldn't have to spend $60.00 a month on one game.Perhaps you can save $5.00 a month per person If related. A SSJN would be required to prove relationship.

I know kinda sounds like a Cell Phone Plan & doubt It happens lol.Just a thought I had like last year or so & kept with me.

Peace... Star Trek Online will be P2P

[Neo4me]

I know what you mean, Evi1Genius!!! I've actually played quite a few Free-to-Play MMOs--Guild Wars among them! I only have the Prophecies and Eye of the North expansions, but that still enables a lot of fun. Other Free-to-Play MMOs that I've played are Rappelz (graphics are pretty darn good, and the gameplay's pretty fun, too), RF Online (also a fairly good game, but it's got a few quirks), and Zero Online (Giant Mecha Action, graphics aren't that good, but it's got some potential). I'm probably not going to skip STO if it's Pay-to-Play, but I probably won't play it as much as if it were Free-to-Play, because I already have 4 Free MMOs to choose from.

So, Cryptic, I hope you're monitoring this thread and make STO Free-to-Play. Otherwise, Star Trek Fans with thin wallets might decide to skip your game--or at least not play it as much as they should.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

The Devs are making STO to make money. Just the way it is.

Harsh, cruel world.

[Evi1Genius]

I dont think that you can autiomatically rule out the fact that STO might not be pay by the month. I strongly diagreee with the assumption that all good mmos are pay by the month And guild wars is an mmo no matter what some Dumb a's think! i would be disapointed if it is pay by the month because unless you have absolutley no life your not going to play STO forever so why waste hundreds of dollars paying for it by the month?

Thank you for trying to give those subscribers some sense. I totally agree with your comments.
GuildWars is a quality MMO.

[MattTreck]

probly pay to play, i don't mind tho, its WORTH IT!

[Marytha]

The question of why you should blow money on a game your going to quit in 4-5 years

Because that's what they charge.

[Valse]

While the possibility of free to play cannot be soundly ruled out of this debate it is only logical that some kind of fee will be introduced to help with the massive costs it takes to maintain the quality of service a good MMO needs to succeed.

Thank you for trying to give those subscribers some sense. I totally agree with your comments.
GuildWars is a quality MMO.

While I will not trash Guild Wars like many might be tempted to, I will say that it could be a lot better if they in fact charged for their services as well.

I dont think that you can autiomatically rule out the fact that STO might not be pay by the month. I strongly diagreee with the assumption that all good mmos are pay by the month And guild wars is an mmo no matter what some Dumb a's think! i would be disapointed if it is pay by the month because unless you have absolutley no life your not going to play STO forever so why waste hundreds of dollars paying for it by the month?

I love the no life argument, really I do and these kind of debates always fall back on that like some kind of crutch. What do you define as a life? Employment, friends, family? I have all that and yet I'm quite inclined to play WoW and pay the subscription fee for it and yet still have time to go out with my friends, work, generally enjoy a social life as I'm sure many of the rest of us willing to flick a buck at Cryptic to keep their quality of service up and keep the competitive with other companies. Please stop playing the crutch card, stand up on your own feet and walk where ever you have to and make a few dollars.

If this offends, I apologize, I'm running out of break time here at work and can't proof read to make it more friendly at the moment.

[Evi1Genius]

If done efficiently running a MMO game server doesn't cost as much as you might think...

[Evertras]

If done efficiently running a MMO game server doesn't cost as much as you might think...

Supply numbers and experience in this regard please. Also, content generation?

[Rahyuht]

Gotta pay for all them employees & you can't say there Isn't a large team.Blizzard Entertainment has many also Sony Online Entertainment.They also work at all hours of the day & night If something occurs like a random shutdown.Then there's shift changes & so on.So yes It takes some money & this game will be P2P!!!

I'm sure they make a pretty good profit however though lol

[Jenaside]

Oh, I see:(

*sighs* I guess I'm gonna have to start the job-hunt, then.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"


LOL.... I never heard of anyone only having incentive to GET A JOB just so they can play a video game.
Don't you think (just maybe) that getting a job, paying your bills, helping out mom & dad, is just "THE RIGHT THING TO DO"? Hope you take your job more seriously than you obviously do your life.

[Rahyuht]

Lmao!So true :) Good luck on the job hunt with the economy the way It Is also.

[kalasas]

i wish they would make it 10$ a month... who ever calculated the 15$ being optimal was smoking something. i do not know why someone would pay 180$ a year for a video game...

hopefully STO will be only 10$ or like one of my old time favorite mmorpgs, (runescape) 5$ a month.

it only stands to reason that having a lower price will encourage more people to try the game.

[Arsinoe]

I wouldn't mind paying 20 a month, around here thats the price to go see a movie for 1 person.

The movie i see once and if it turns out bad i wasted 20, if i liked it great, still spend 20.

If i like STO i can play it whenever i want for that same 20. the next month i can build further on what i have, on what i like for another 20. I don't lose it, from this perspective it seems like a good deal to me. (emphasizing me):D

[Rahyuht]

Wow $20.00 a ticket? lol My ticket for Star Trek (2009) was only like $7.00 at most.

However then you count the 4 members of my family & drinks & popcorn.Yeah not cheap.Spent $50.00 that night :(

[halloweenghost]

Almost all free MMO's I've played usually end up ..well junk.. PPP is the way to go sorry folks who want free.

[Rahyuht]

PPP? That a new clan I didn't hear about? We hanging Vulcans :eek: Wow!

[Arsinoe]

20 with popcorn and a drink but still :)

[Kavryn]

My question is, why not make it something like Xbox Live, I pay 50 bucks a year for it, I don't see the need for a 15 dollar bill every month, but like others have said, there are a crap load of people that play WoW at 15, but can someone think of how many more would play if there was a price drop. No matter what, I may not like the price of the P2P, this game will most likely be worth the money either way.

[Arsinoe]

I tend to think, the more we have to pay the more money they can put in developing more content. :D

[Tamgros]

My question is, why not make it something like Xbox Live, I pay 50 bucks a year for it, I don't see the need for a 15 dollar bill every month, but like others have said, there are a crap load of people that play WoW at 15, but can someone think of how many more would play if there was a price drop. No matter what, I may not like the price of the P2P, this game will most likely be worth the money either way.

$50/year for xbox live vs
$180/year for a$15 a month sub.

That means Cryptic would have to expect 3 3/5 times as many people signing up to make as much money. And even then, their costs would be higher. Just thinks: more transaction costs, more memory storage for each character, more Customer support, more server capacity....

They'd probably need somewhere around 5 times the number of people just to make it come out even...

[OokieSpookie]

My question is, why not make it something like Xbox Live, I pay 50 bucks a year for it, I don't see the need for a 15 dollar bill every month, but like others have said, there are a crap load of people that play WoW at 15, but can someone think of how many more would play if there was a price drop. No matter what, I may not like the price of the P2P, this game will most likely be worth the money either way.

Because it takes alot more resources to run an mmo.
All xbox live does is play traffic cop and connect your xbox to another persons.
Good content costs money and development time, continual good content costs continual money and development time.
Not only that but there is server upkeep and grades.


As far as WoW goes, I do not think more would play at a lower price because the lower price would mean that you got fewer updates with new areas and content, higher server lag, less staff working to stop bugs and exploits and all around lower quality of gameplay all around. (I actually despise wow but facts are facts).

People like to think that these games just make themselves and those patches that you get every few weeks or monthly or so just get generated by themselves yet are the first and loudest when something goes wrong and they do not think that the devs are fixing something fast enough.

[KashikoiBaka]

I've always found Free to play mmos lacking in many extents, some will cover it up with micro transaction which don't end up doing much for the game to begin with. There are those that bring up guild wars but you need to buy each expansion and I don't even know if I can call it an mmo. Some of the best moments I've had was running into people in the middle of a quest and that just doesn't happen when everything but the main city is instanced off. WoW, and I know we don't want wowtrek etc etc, has set an excellent example. Sure the monthly is $15 dollars a month with various prepaid options, 1 month, 3 month and 6month, which are cheaper with the more prepaid time you purchase. But with that $15 a month we got many updates which would have qualified as an expansion in any free to play mmo. That and $15 a month isn't at all hard to save up, even for a kid.

[OokieSpookie]

I've always found Free to play mmos lacking in many extents, some will cover it up with micro transaction which don't end up doing much for the game to begin with. There are those that bring up guild wars but you need to buy each expansion and I don't even know if I can call it an mmo. Some of the best moments I've had was running into people in the middle of a quest and that just doesn't happen when everything but the main city is instanced off. WoW, and I know we don't want wowtrek etc etc, has set an excellent example. Sure the monthly is $15 dollars a month with various prepaid options, 1 month, 3 month and 6month, which are cheaper with the more prepaid time you purchase. But with that $15 a month we got many updates which would have qualified as an expansion in any free to play mmo. That and $15 a month isn't at all hard to save up, even for a kid.

Same with LotRO.

As cliche as it is, with an MMO you do get what you pay for.
Besides $15 a month is the price of one dvd and you get infinitely more value from it

[Kavryn]

OK, I admit to defeat, I was just making a suggestion, and I will in all ways still be playing this game, I just will have to suck it up and find the money from somewhere. You all have good points with the WoW things, I just hate to admit it.

[Arsinoe]

They did say they would keep on as much people making more content when the game was out as there are people working on making the game right now. Good to hear but those people have to be payed to, i can't recall the exact number but where there 200+- people working on STO? :)

Anyway i agree you will find the money somewhere. :)

[Fenrir55]

but what about guild wars it is 100 times better then WOW and you only have to buy the game for 30 bucks and they have come up with several updates and games.

how do you think that other companies make their money? assassins creed 2 is coming out and bioshock 2 is coming out fallout 3 has made several new additions to the game and they didnt want 15 a month for their game they just wanted you to buy it and then they make the next one and you buy that and so goes the process if you dont want an update you dont get one. you only get the ones you want.

[Zepath]

Guild Wars rocked, Diablo rocked, Counter-Strike rocked, Halo (everyone of them) rocked, and Team Fortress II is still getting my attention now and then.

There is nothing wrong with Free-to-play games. Nothing.

Yes, some of them suck .... but there's just as many pay-to-play MMOs that suck too!

Pay to play has its advantages as well .... usually the content is more dynamic and expansive, and there's features a pay-to-play can offer the other games just don't have the resources / man-power for.

[pr1983]

Hmm, while talking about prices, i wonder if the game itself will actually be cheaper than the average pc game. i mean, they'd make any losses back through subscription fees, wouldnt they?

[terranova3y2]

but what about guild wars it is 100 times better then WOW and you only have to buy the game for 30 bucks and they have come up with several updates and games.


Thats your opinion ;)



how do you think that other companies make their money? assassins creed 2 is coming out and bioshock 2 is coming out fallout 3 has made several new additions to the game and they didnt want 15 a month for their game they just wanted you to buy it and then they make the next one and you buy that and so goes the process if you dont want an update you dont get one. you only get the ones you want.

Those games are all Single Player games with a multiplayer component. STO is an MMO with no single player component.

Server charges, addition content, customer support. These things are what you pay a subscription for.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that those additions to the games you mentioned aren't free either, Fallout 3 expansion packs are like 15-20 dollars iirc

[DarkOrion69]

I know this is not going to sound nice but I want to be honest. A small fee of $15/month should not cripple the finances of someone who owns a computer that costs $500+. Really if you do not have $15/month to spare you should be concerned more with getting an income than playing an MMO.

GW was free to play and as a result had horrible (basically non-existent) technical support. The content was full of typos and very generic, much like the backstory. The fact that anyone could play eternally after just buying the game was a marketing ploy to get poor people to play GW. Of course, then came lame episodic content that you had to buy to get more content.

This was a way of sneakily getting money out of an economically poor fan base. I still cannot believe people fell for buying expansions after choosing GW because they didn't have to pay each month. Think about the cost of each expansion then divide by the number of months you explored that content. Then you will see how much you really were paying every month.

Developers of content like getting a paycheck, so a steady stream of revenue is preferable if you want to maintain your talent. You try asking a creative person to work for free...and if they say yes...take a look at what they create and you will get EXACTLY what you have paid for...nothing of merit.

[Zepath]

Hmm, while talking about prices, i wonder if the game itself will actually be cheaper than the average pc game. i mean, they'd make any losses back through subscription fees, wouldnt they?

I doubt it. Publishers charge what they charge because they can. And even then, they just set the retail price, the actual price is set by the outlet handing it over to you.

Most games cost $49 now, because ALL games cost $49. No one seems to want to break that $50 nut. But once they do, you'll see all new games jump there.

I expect the next jump to be to $54 a game, and then we'll see it hang there for a couple of years.

Just like I expect to see the next subscription rate increase to be $19 a month, and then it will hang there for a few years.

Everyone forgets that just a couple of years ago, we were all paying $12 a month ... then Blizzard decided it $12 a month, plus $3 a month for the file update service for WoW .... the instant it became $15 a month for WoW, everyone started charging $15.

:)

[Zepath]

Heck with all the taxes the Obama crew wants to put on the games (a Federal Value Added Tax) and on the internet (A Federal Internet Infrastructure Tax) ... MMO's could be a thing of the past before he gets out of office. We'll all be back to playing stand-alone games and our consoles.

[thefrayl]

Pay to play has its advantages as well .... usually the content is more dynamic and expansive, and there's features a pay-to-play can offer the other games just don't have the resources / man-power for.

Bingo

I would love for this game to be dripping with quality AND be free2play, but it's just not realistic to have both with a large scale MMO like this.

It costs a good chunk of change to host and maintain a MMO, let alone continually improve it and create new content for over time. I don't know about you guys, but I don't like working for free. I don't think it's going to be a bad deal shelling out $15 or less a month for the high caliber title STO appears to be shaping into.

[pr1983]

I doubt it. Publishers charge what they charge because they can. And even then, they just set the retail price, the actual price is set by the outlet handing it over to you.

Most games cost $49 now, because ALL games cost $49. No one seems to want to break that $50 nut. But once they do, you'll see all new games jump there.

I expect the next jump to be to $54 a game, and then we'll see it hang there for a couple of years.

Just like I expect to see the next subscription rate increase to be $19 a month, and then it will hang there for a few years.

Everyone forgets that just a couple of years ago, we were all paying $12 a month ... then Blizzard decided it $12 a month, plus $3 a month for the file update service for WoW .... the instant it became $15 a month for WoW, everyone started charging $15.

:)

hmmm. i guess i'm lucky i'm not in the usa, then... :p

[jhem99]

To sum it all up: free to pay.
No there is no spelling mistake here:D

[Chopa1]

God I hope its pay-to-play. Generaly the games are better when its pay to play.

[Arsinoe]

Indeed, pay to play is best.

And common, 15$ a month, 1 visit to the movies costs more. :D

As long as Cryptic keeps making more and more content i will keep on paying with a smile. :)

[inXi]

I'd prefer pay-to-play which would ensure constant updates of the game.

[Fenrir55]

gamestop already has the pre-order out and it is going to cost 49.99. i do have to say thats giong to be a butt load of cash. If im going to have to pay 15 bucks the first month it'll be $65 just to start playing ><.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product_ID=73923

i know the game is going to be good but i might wait and hope the price goes down for the game itself in the first year its out cause thats alot to be puting out into something right away. maybe it comes with one month free subscription.... i can only hope.

any ideas?

[Tamgros]

gamestop already has the pre-order out and it is going to cost 49.99. i do have to say thats giong to be a butt load of cash. If im going to have to pay 15 bucks the first month it'll be $65 just to start playing ><.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product_ID=73923

i know the game is going to be good but i might wait and hope the price goes down for the game itself in the first year its out cause thats alot to be puting out into something right away. maybe it comes with one month free subscription.... i can only hope.

any ideas?
Most games come with the first month 'free'. People start feeling nickel and dimed if they need to do subscribe before playing. There are also free trials after a while.

In that first month, if you like it enough you can usually buy bulk packages for less $/month. ie, I could buy a year sub and get it for $13/month or something.

The sub cost really isn't that much though. It's all about priorities. I save a lot of money when I get a good MMO because I don't buy other games.

[RanizMurjuri]

Interesting:

that i'm seeing all the arguement for P2P or F2P, boil down to Economics of today.

i'm not buying your arguements.

I'm not buying the arguement:

Play 2 play is better, either.

[raldar]

gamestop already has the pre-order out and it is going to cost 49.99. i do have to say thats giong to be a butt load of cash. If im going to have to pay 15 bucks the first month it'll be $65 just to start playing ><.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product_ID=73923

i know the game is going to be good but i might wait and hope the price goes down for the game itself in the first year its out cause thats alot to be puting out into something right away. maybe it comes with one month free subscription.... i can only hope.

any ideas?

That's not alot. The 50 bucks for the game is pretty standard and the first month is usualy "free".

If the game price goes down in the first year it means that the game itself is horrible and the company is trying to recoup some of it's loses.

[deeboboy]

wow another good thread.

i have to agree with some of the points made in this thread 1 about the cost of the game there is something to be said for having the game to buy in the shops with a manual and the feel and excitement of getting it on the day of release.

however the download option saves money and cost alot less more friendly to the enviorment and means more people should in thoery download it.

the second option do we spend (£$-50) on a game and not have to pay a monthly subcription or do we download the game and pay a monthly quarterly or yearly subscription now my opion on this whole matter is subsription charges work best but if it only come out on the pc then thats the only option we shall have.

ps3 users im pretty sure you can forgett about any mmo coming out on the console as sony released the other day that ff would be the only game to be released as a mmo on the ps3..

360 users of which i am one of i woud love so much the games comes out on the console but if it does not not to worry we can all buy the 360-pc adaptor.

thats my opion

download is the best option and with monthly etc forms of payment

[wrussandrews]

STO is a business. Businesses strive for reoccurring revenue. In fact, many will give away something in a sale to keep the reoccurring revenue.

This revenue keeps people employed and the servers maintained, which brings content and support. It takes money to keep it going, so why would Cryptic just give it away?

[thefrayl]

ps3 users im pretty sure you can forgett about any mmo coming out on the console as sony released the other day that ff would be the only game to be released as a mmo on the ps3..

I think you misunderstood this E3 announcement. Sony stated that you would only be able to play FFXIV Online on the PS3. This turned out to be a false statement, but they have not said anything about FFXIV being the only MMO on the PS3.

That would not be a smart decision on their part, especially considering their current situation. They need all the good titles they can get right now.

[Rivaris]

all this talk about it should be free because i buy the game already i should not have to pay a extra 10 bux to play online because bla bla bla bla.

so you bought the game so what for most fps you buy the game and then you play on a server online and yeah there are a few server setup by the company that made the game but 95% of the servers up are private that cost up to 20+ bux a month to rent. so you play for free on some 1 elses server.

just fase it you pay 10-15 bux a month to help pay for the server maintenece web connection and for replacements parts and what not else.

hell i would pay 20+ bux a month to play sto just so it doesnt end up to be like those other grind fest free mmos out there. with almost no content update exept for 6month later were you can buy an expention pack for a other 50bux.

also for the posters in GW and that are giong to play gw 2 good luck you will probarly be lvl capped again in 1 week untill they put up extra content 2 months afther lauch. if sto were announced as a GW type game sto will be death.

[deeboboy]

I think you misunderstood this E3 announcement. Sony stated that you would only be able to play FFXIV Online on the PS3. This turned out to be a false statement, but they have not said anything about FFXIV being the only MMO on the PS3.

That would not be a smart decision on their part, especially considering their current situation. They need all the good titles they can get right now.

yes there statement was very confusing still is me thinks

i agree they do need some good titles i dont have a ps3 but i know plenty of people who do and they say most of the games have great backgrounds but they are to cartooney thats there opion not mine.

we pay to play thats life i guess

[Homerider1]

It will probably be pay yearly or just buy the software

[raldar]

It will probably be pay yearly or just buy the software

Paying yearly may be an option. But this game will not be free to play.