I Don't Sense Excitement For STO

[CaptainHoliday]

Maybe its because Star Trek Online has been in production for years already, but I am not picking up much hype or excitement from the online community. I regularly check around the major gaming sites and here.

There is excitement for the new Star Wars MMO. But I concede that's a different crowd and a different type of game.

But even for Trekkers, I find a lot of in fighting and disagreement. (Mostly about ship interiors and player crews).

There is not a lot of red blooded excitement. Some, but not much. And we are moving closer to beta.

Maybe it's too early for that.

But out of 10, I would say the excitement level of 6/10. It should be around 8 or 9!!

[Paulo999]

Maybe its because Star Trek Online has been in production for years already, but I am not picking up much hype or excitement from the online community. I regularly check around the major gaming sites and here.

There is excitement for the new Star Wars MMO. But I concede that's a different crowd and a different type of game.

But even for Trekkers, I find a lot of in fighting and disagreement. (Mostly about ship interiors and player crews).

There is not a lot of red blooded excitement. Some, but not much. And we are moving closer to beta.

Maybe it's too early for that.

But out of 10, I would say the excitement level of 6/10. It should be around 8 or 9!!

lol the star wars mmo looks like WoW in Space

when it comes closer to the release people might start going sto nuts.

[EremiticWolf]

We be a patient crowd........for the most part. :D

[Cormoran]

I think it's mainly because people got excited when perpetual had it. i'm guessing (or atleast hoping) once the beta comes out and people realise it's more than a bunch of BS from a company about to go under they'll start taking notice again.

[CaptainHoliday]

I think it's mainly because people got excited when perpetual had it. i'm guessing (or atleast hoping) once the beta comes out and people realise it's more than a bunch of BS from a company about to go under they'll start taking notice again.

Yes, the disaster that was the Perpetual mission certainly is a sobering effect. I too was very exciting for Perpetual's vision years ago, but then EVERYTHING crumbled and came crashing down, and we were left with very uninspiring screenshots and gameplay previews, and then the financial collapse of the company itself.

I am sure countless thousands were let down.

Cryptic's preview of STO the past year and a half have been nothing but screenshots and one trailer.

Once the game moves into beta phase and close to launch, then I agree excitement will build up. I hope it's not too long a wait. I am ready to play this year.

[k.mpok]

I think it has to do with the fact that a ST MMO has been wanted/hoped for for a very long time. Many have had high hopes for this for so long and had those hopes crushed so many times we take news with a grain of salt.

We as ST fans have seen our share of both good and BAD ST games. This also explains some of the minor complants here also. We know what we like or don't like.

[CaptainHoliday]

I think it has to do with the fact that a ST MMO has been wanted/hoped for for a very long time. Many have had high hopes for this for so long and had those hopes crushed so many times we take news with a grain of salt.

We as ST fans have seen our share of both good and BAD ST games. This also explains some of the minor complants here also. We know what we like or don't like.

But still Cryptic has shown by a magnitude of 100x more than what Perpetual ever showed. There's little chance of STO being cancelled again, this game is sure to go to release, barring some extraordinary circumstance.

Since the Vegas announcement last summer there has not been overwhelming anticipation, which you would expect for a Trek MMO.

Does it have to do with the game Cryptic is making, the graphics and gameplay choices? It could be.

[Paulo999]

But still Cryptic has shown by a magnitude of 100x more than what Perpetual ever showed. There's little chance of STO being cancelled again, this game is sure to go to release, barring some extraordinary circumstance.

Since the Vegas announcement last summer there has not been overwhelming anticipation, which you would expect for a Trek MMO.

Does it have to do with the game Cryptic is making, the graphics and gameplay choices? It could be.

right now i think its because theres no sign of species 8472 in game :O

[Sarevok]

Well, like some ppl here already said: we've been waiting for a LONG time. It's hard to stay excited for 3 years... :(

[CaptainHoliday]

Well, like some ppl here already said: we've been waiting for a LONG time. It's hard to stay excited for 3 years... :(

Agreed. But I don't see many new people who did not follow Perpetual excited.

I see a lot of meh ho hum attitudes. A lot of bickering about features of STO.

Whenever people start talking about features they want in STO, there's always a worry IT WONT MAKE INTO LAUNCH.

Maybe Cryptic is releasing it too early.

[Dominatus]

Well, like some ppl here already said: we've been waiting for a LONG time. It's hard to stay excited for 3 years... :(

LOL, some of us have been loitering for longer than that....

The last time I actively played in any form of Star Trek MMO, was in the mods we all helped out with for SFC3.

I was bored the other day, and looked back on my forum posts in Battleclinic to see when we were actively all playing that, and it was in mid-2004.

So, it's a little hard to remain at 8/10 excitement levels for 5 years :eek:

[CaptainHoliday]

Could it be that GASP..the hype has gone DOWN since the Vegas announcement last summer?

[Marekofvulcan]

How can one expect excitement when so little is known? Sure we have our hopes and ideas but a great deal has yet to be shown to us, let alone a release date to be announced. Fighting amongst the fans while sitting in the shadow (or even if we knew everything actually) isn't terribly uncommon. The important thing is to enjoy the discussions we do have and if at all possible... help the devs in creating the best possible Trek universe for us all.

[RunnerChase]

well im excited to the utmost, I only found out about STO 2 mnths ago, I was playing grand theft auto
on my ps2 and thought they prob. made good ST game aswell, boy was I let down with encounters.
I remembered my friends ST grid like game for his COMP. from the 80s It had way more depth with
with a bunch of dots and letters, dont remember the name though, would like to download it ,any way
I got online and found this by chance and have been stoked about it since.
how hard would it be for the DEVs to make a short animation every week or two using thier graphics ?
like a short story u see on the holodeck. I would like that.:)

[mdacunha]

Give it time, with trailer just released and an increasing number of images, people will begin to flock to this game and place their faith back in it. With cancellation of the original, I honestly doubted that this game would get to this point, but with the recent release of content, I have no doubt that it will progress and become a massive hit. Like I said, give them something to see and they will start showing interest, that is what got me signed on today. I have been following this game from day one, but only started believing in its viability when I saw physical proof of its development to date (which has me quite excited). :)

[Bigwig]

Could it be that GASP..the hype has gone DOWN since the Vegas announcement last summer?

Your right Holiday, there isn't a lot of hype for STO lately, and it has died down. I often wonder where the marketing team for STO is? I've raised this concern before and came to the conclusion that it will no doubt pick up come Beta time and/or nearer release, but after following WAR for 3 years pre-launch, I've grown accustom to extremely good marketing and i almost expect it now.

STO needs a big marketing push IMO, we're 'still on track for a 2009 release' and Beta this summer - it should be hysterical around here! But its not. The majority of threads are barely hitting two pages and i always see the same people posting which is shocking for an MMORPG forum.

I don't know, maybe all efforts focused on Champions Online right now which is perfectly understandable! I'm happy with how things are going and the 'pace' at the moment, i just really want some new juicy information! :D

[minago]

i thought atari was handling the adverts and such.

either way am still excited

[jbarker82]

I'm pretty sure that once the movie is on general release that will generate further excitement for the game. Hopefully there will be some sort of advertising for the game before the film. That would generate quite a lot of interest. Otherwise it would just be a missed opportunity.

[marscentral]

I, for one, only got on board after the Vegas announcement. I didn't follow it for a day under Perpetual because I never heard about it. I think there is a lot of excitement both here and on other sites, but we are in an intermediate phase of development at the moment. There's very little the team can tell us and Beta is yet to be announced, so there's very little information out to get excited about at the moment.

Anyway, I'm excited and I eagerly await new updates and really want to be in Beta. But for now, all we can really do is wait and that's not exciting.

[evan.is.weyoun]

Every single day I check the STO site for updates (usually more than once, haha). I'd have to say I'm really freaking excited for this game, even moreso than for the movie.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

Well, if you don't sense that, maybe you can shed a little more light on that disturbance in the Force?

[OddjobXL]

We still don't have enough information to get really excited. I know I'm interested in the customization aspects and NPC crew mechanics but even the latter is still vague to me.

As far as "procedurally generated" Duty Mission content goes or Neutral Zone IPvP or FFA PvP arenas we don't know anything at all and that's where the beef is.

Player crews and starship interiors (at least to a reasonable extent) are important to me but even I'm not such a fanatic I think that would sell the game alone. We need to know what gameplay will actually be like first. Episodic missions, sure, we kinda get how that will work (to the extent that we have no detailed information on either ground or space combat and have no idea how diplomatic or scientific elements will function). But everything else? Zip.

As I've said before, I'm on board with what we do know, I'm even excited about it, but I really need a better idea of what's in STO before I go into lobbying/promotion mode. It wouldn't be the first time I bought into a game that sounded fascinating before I understood what was really there. I would like to avoid trying to sell other folks with my excitement about vague ideas expressed by game designers and find out that it's not really what I thought it would be. "My bad, oops." Been there before. Not a good place to be.

So a little more detail, or better yet a lot more detail, and if things line up in PR and interviews the right way I'll be out there barnstorming for STO. I can be persuasive.

[CalonLan]

We wait in quiet anticipation... the time to get excited is when we're playing the game.

[piponolo]

Have patience. The difference about STO is that they are using their new engine that allows them to pump out content faster and we are relatively early in development for an MMO. A super amount of hype doesn't really start to happen until videos, game trailers, etc. Right now most that follow are hard core trek fans that look for this kind of thing. That and many past Star Trek games have been not very popular or just horrible so I think that the community is in the 'wait and see' mode. I predict that as soon as a game trailer is released and general public knows more, then you will see forum membership jump and excitement increase. Also, remember that although star trek is popular, star wars has more of a following because of the recent movies and 'action movie' style. You also have the new mmo based on a game that was very popular with both console and computer gamers.

I have hope that Cryptic will pull the stigma of star trek games out of the pit of not so goodness and make a really great game. It looks to be so!!

[Roy_Vash]

I think there is a more rational mind set among the fans here. 200 to 300 people are viewing every time I log on. There is always a thread to respond to...meh that's a good solid experience. I don't need false advertising and such to tickle my appetite.

[Sarile]

The excitement will come. Patience!

Live Long and Prosper

[bridgeburner18]

I think if when beta goes out and a release date is set youll find the community is very excited, right now its just the calm before the storm.

Star wars nerds can enjoy their game and get uber excited all they want but sto has been announced in dev much longer than starwars so their entrance is a bit more fresher feeling, sto (if your counting perpetual) has been around for years now and i agree a lot of the steam tended to fizzle out. But when they release we will see who riegns supreme, personally i don't get my jollies seeing a thousand jedis and a faction of jar-jars that the game wont let me kill.

[0wl]

I think it has to do with the fact that a ST MMO has been wanted/hoped for for a very long time. Many have had high hopes for this for so long and had those hopes crushed so many times we take news with a grain of salt.

We as ST fans have seen our share of both good and BAD ST games. This also explains some of the minor complants here also. We know what we like or don't like.

Agreed, caution does it i would say! :)

[Loekii]

Firstly, I don't expect STO to be a 'mega smash' -- but rather a more niche game like EQ2 or LoTRO -- so I am not expecting any giant Buzz about it. Currently, 'Star Trek' is not really that popular among gamer. Abrams Movie might ramp up some interest though -- right audience, right production company, etc. However, with out the movie, Star Trek is a niche.

Also, I think some of it has to do with the lack of solid information about the game at this point. Currently it is mostly conceptual -- feels like a game that is still a year+ away. Only a small group tends to really follow games in development. There is nothing to really 'link' or send to friends about the game. There is not a 'race list', 'career list', 'skill list', 'ship list', etc that you find on other development sites. For example, at this point in development, I believe WAR had its classes, races, and alot of other content about the game posted on their Official Website (not to mention their Newsletters, Pod Casts, Blogs, Videos, etc).

Also comparing the PR of WAR with STO, there is a solid difference imo. I don't think STO is really pushing their marketing right now -- might be so it doesn't overshadow Champions.

I think SW:TOR has more buzz because A) it is star wars (which is popular), and B) it has the success of the KotOR series fueling enthusiasm. Players have something concrete to imagine and build upon. When you think of SW:TOR, you think of KoTOR 1&2 but in an MMO format and much better. With STO, there is nothing to really reference other than a few failed MMOs (SWG and TR) and maybe the SFC game series as a possibility.

[Solomon555]

I know I'm only one person, but I am more excited about this game then I have been about any game in a long, long time. I check this site several times a day and as someone else mentioned, I always see several hundred people browsing, sometimes even in the middle of the night.

Having said that, in my opinion the information about the game we've been given so far has been very flat. I applaud Cryptic for putting in so much time to do interview after interview, and releasing a few random screenshots, but there isn't a whole lot of info out there. I think a lot of people have gotten tired of hearing the same information over and over. We may get 1 or two new tidbits out of every 3 interviews. I expect that to change as they move closer to beta.

[Meehile]

lol the star wars mmo looks like WoW in Space




It would be very difficult to come up with a more wrong statement. Look into Hero Engine some time.

[dyvimtorm]

Excited here. Perhaps even giddy.

[NeoWolf]

Well I can't speak for the masses but personally this game has me so excited, that if I were any more so I'd be a quivering gelatinous mass oozing drool from all orifices locked in a state of permanent unequivocable euphoria.

so on the dial my exictement out of ten is probably a 12 and a half :p

[dyvimtorm]

Well I can't speak for the masses but personally this game has me so excited, that if I were any more so I'd be a quivering gelatinous mass oozing drool from all orifices locked in a state of permanent unequivocable euphoria.

so on the dial my exictement out of ten is probably a 12 and a half :p

I thought you were already? ;)

[NeoWolf]

I thought you were already? ;)

Shhh, thats classified information! :D
Damn Tal Shiar they're hidden everywhere

[eNDIE]

well it has died down abit because much of the info about the game is redundant its only like 1 unique fact in every interview and if they made a video like they did in vegas the hype would go up again. As for now 2 screens a month dont realy cut it

[takiwa]

Once the game goes into Beta my excitement will increase. I am following 3 different in developement games ATM, and they are all space based MMO's. I am a Star Wars nut, into Star Trek as well, played SWG for 5 years+ will not play SW: TOR for my own reasons but I am done with SW the franchise for a while. I actually bought ST: Legacies last night just to get in the mood for a Star Trek game.
Beta is when my excitement will begin.
Takiwa

[PattonJ007]

*screams like a schoolgirl seeing N*Sync for the first time*

STAR TREK ONLINE OMG OMG OMG

...better?

[No1UKnow]

Even a dog knows when and when not to get excited.

If I walk into my back yard, my dogs will run up to me with tails wagging, hoping for a reassuring pat on the head.

If however I walk into my back yard carrying a bone, my dogs run to me hopping and jumping around, doing half circles and willing to do whatever tricks necessary to get possession of that bone.

All we need is more bones.. excitement will ensue.

[Hagon]

I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop in this thread and for him to tell us that his perceived lack of interest is because there's no interiors. :rolleyes:

[EnsignSkylarkThibedeau]

Actually there was a lot of excitement when Cryptic first took over but it has died down a bit as you would expect it to when it's realized the game will be released sometime next year.

I think a lot of folks thought at first it would be rushed along to be released to coincide with Star Trek XI. I'm glad they're taking their time. the game will be much better plus the added bonus of no Jedi, No Sith and no Player Borg.

[USS_Parallax]

I Don't Sense Excitement For STO

Are you fudging kidding me?

Here's me:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[moessner]

yea alot of trekie have been waiting for a good star trek mmo for a long time so the wait ill take as long as they get it right and not mess things up. sorry but SWG mmo is horid. before it came out and i seen a dancing wookie to heal him self i went ill never play that.

[Loekii]

*screams like a schoolgirl seeing N*Sync for the first time*

STAR TREK ONLINE OMG OMG OMG

...better?

Isn't it the Johnas Brothers now?

[ZeframCochrane]

Are you fudging kidding me?

Here's me:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:


Ditto for me!

I think everyone is waiting anxiously and some of the disagreements we see on the forums is caused by lack of information. Cryptic has been very general in the information it has been giving out. We have virtually nothing solid about how the game will be played. Yes we have alot of "youl'll be able to do x with your ship or y with you fleet" but no real game dynamics. HOW will we do x and y? How will x and y effect z?

Specifics about character progression, ship design, battle mechanics, mission objectives, and a dozen other things. That's what we are missing. Give us that, even a taste, and the Trekkers out there will be rabid to get their hands on this game.

[SIMONLEV]

I also think that they don't want to overshadow Champions. Personally i think this game will blow champs out of the water just b/c its not your standard 3rd person grindfest mmo. However what can we say to others about this game ... really.. its like eve but we can go to planets? Its like swg but totally not?

"Ohh cool do they have any gameplay and interface trailers?"

"Uhhh no.. they have a pre alpha vid and the developer doing Champions talking about it. There are some cool interviews at comic con, but good luck finding them hahah"

"Uhh huh.."

[SIMONLEV]

There's text! Walls and walls of text about what they are going to do...? So if people do hear about this game and check out the website what will their reaction be?

[PattonJ007]

Isn't it the Johnas Brothers now?

Haha true :)

[Thibor]

I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop in this thread and for him to tell us that his perceived lack of interest is because there's no interiors. :rolleyes:

He already did Hagon. But I'll give him a +1 for cleverness as it's not as over the top as his mornal threads. But still, this thread is really nothing more than the typical drama-queen/attention-monger that he's shown himself to be time and again.

In the original post there's the mention of interiors
But even for Trekkers, I find a lot of in fighting and disagreement. (Mostly about ship interiors and player crews).

He then tries to stir more drama by making false claims like:
Cryptic's preview of STO the past year and a half have been nothing but screenshots and one trailer.
which says nothings about the "Ask Cryptics" or the various articles in magazines like PC Gamer and Game Informer nor the interviews primarily Craig but others at Cryptic have done.

Pure guess/opinion on his behalf:
Since the Vegas announcement last summer there has not been overwhelming anticipation, which you would expect for a Trek MMO.

Plenty of people get excited for new games. Most however don't start bubbling over with excitement until the launch is imminent. I know lots of people making statements during a games development "I'm keeping an eye on <game X>" but it's usually not until it's into beta or some really in depth game previews come out that people's excitement start to build. And if the game isn't to that stage yet where that kind of information is ready to be released then our <sarcasm on> good Capt. <sarcasm off> is simply showing the same trait he's shown in so many other threads, that of impatience.

Of course, then he points back to what he thinks is lacking which is nothing new to any of us familiar with his ramblings:
Does it have to do with the game Cryptic is making, the graphics and gameplay choices? It could be.

Followed soon after by the:
Whenever people start talking about features they want in STO, there's always a worry IT WONT MAKE INTO LAUNCH.

Maybe Cryptic is releasing it too early.

Which again, for those of us familiar with his past ranting that he's one of the loudest whiners about what won't make it into launch, in particular ship interiors. And of course it's no secret either from previous postings he'd be happier if they delayed the game to put in his much coveted fully explorable interiors.

And then more "let's try to get the mob with torches and pitchforks" all worked up by:
Could it be that GASP..the hype has gone DOWN since the Vegas announcement last summer?

That's hardly any different than, "Could it be GASP that since you said yesterday that it would be sunny today, and it is, that you knew by magic?"
The only thing he left off of it was the follow up of "BURN THE WITCH!" or in this case, "FLAME CRYPTIC!"

Nope Hagon, nothing new to see here. Not a damn thing.

[DarckKnight]

You right, were not a excited about as we have been in the past, or at least I'm not. The biggest reason I not is that there is all this press release and not a lot of real content released with the press interviews to add more fuel to the fire.

I think the other big problem is the first time the game being devolped was back before sony messed up SWG with the NGE. Now Crpyic has had the game for about a year and we have seen more stuff released then from the old company and that is a good thing, but really we need some real meat on the bones here. A new vidoe with some more ground combat with a UI controls in view and some in game ship to ship with the UI as well.(Even if it's ugly and messy) This will get are blood boiling again, I mean really with all the press you would think that beta was here but we just keep hearing the same thing is the game is in pre - production. it's just hype hype and more hype, and that bugs me alot. There been a lot of mmo's that have been hyped out that have just fell really really short. examples War, AoC, the SWG and SWG with NGE (bad bad hype) Tabula Rasa, RF online, Dungon and Dragons, and many other since the release of WOW. Now before I get shot I'm not saying that they are bad games (with the exeption of the NGE) I'm just saying that they did not live up to the press hype, and it has been that way for a every long time in the mmo world. So if you think it's a great game then please show us more, give us more. Don't feed us hype, you want to give us hype then give us something to back up the hype. I really want to point at this web site and say to my friends "See this game is going to kick WOW, SWG, TOR, LOTR, and EVE into the next galaxy and you need to get signed up and ready for the game. :eek:"

But right now I really don't have a lot to be ramped up about, with the exeption that crypic has the game, yes it will finally get done and we will be happy trekkies. :cool:

That being said crypic is a good company, yes i'm happy about them working on the title, i want to play this game, but I'm not as excited as i was 2 months ago.

[Loekii]

yea alot of trekie have been waiting for a good star trek mmo for a long time so the wait ill take as long as they get it right and not mess things up. sorry but SWG mmo is horid. before it came out and i seen a dancing wookie to heal him self i went ill never play that.

However, how many 'Trekkies' are there, and how many are Gamers? Now compare that to the number of MMO gamers out there.

Imo, I just dont see 'Trekkies' to be a real driving force in the gamer market, which is why I do not think that 'trekkies' are who will give STO a buzz or even make it a strong success. In some cases, the Star Trek name might even turn people off (seeing the negative image Star Trek can have).

Cryptic would need to hook into the MMO gamer pool, and create a buzz there, to really create a STO Buzz. It wont be the lisence, but rather the game play, that will get most people interested. Make a good Space MMORPG -- and then you might see more Gamers Buzzing about STO.

That is not to say that being a Trekkie is a bad thing, or that STO will fail, rather it is just more accurately identifying the audience out there - imo.

[Loekii]

<snip>
I really want to point at this web site and say to my friends "See this game is going to kick WOW, SWG, TOR, LOTR, and EVE into the next galaxy and you need to get signed up and ready for the game. :eek:"<snip>


I definitely agree here.

The STO website is seriously lacking, imo. There is really nothing solid about the game. Take away the Forums and you really haven't much at all.

I think the Path Storyline is great, but there is virtually nothing about the game itself. No breakdown about the two factions, no breakdown of races, professions, Pet Positions/Stations, nothing even really giving a sense of Space vs. Ground content.

For a complete outsider, you have to go digging for the information.

It would be nice to see the Website have a Menu bar on the side listing:




CREW
Captain Careers:

Tactical
Engineering
Science

Crew: (talks about Bridge Pets)

RACES:

Federation:

Human
Vulcan
Andorian
Teluride
other (listing other races and Custom races)

Klingon Empire:

Klingons
Nausicaans
Gorn
Orion
other (listing other races and custom races)


SHIPS:

Federation - (link to Fed SoL)
Klingon - (link to Klingon SoL)

SPACE:

Listing various information about SPACE Content, gameplay and faq.
Exploration, Combat, Science, Engineering, etc Content in Space.

GROUND:

Listing various information about GROUND Content, gameplay and faq.
Exploration, Combat, Science, Engineering, etc Content on the ground.

THE GALAXY:

Description of galaxy map, The neutral zone, outer regions, Mining, etc.






Nice, clean, and user friendly information about the game.

Thus visitors to the site will be able to get the information about the game, instead of having to wade through the forums and various articles to still end up without a clear answer of what STO is going to be.

[Sumoben]

Give them some time, STO hasn't even entered Beta yet, and its like people are expecting a full Guide on ship classes, and abilities, and how to level, ect.

[zinc]

Maybe its because Star Trek Online has been in production for years already, but I am not picking up much hype or excitement from the online community. I regularly check around the major gaming sites and here.
...
There is not a lot of red blooded excitement. Some, but not much. And we are moving closer to beta.

Maybe it's too early for that.


I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

[Sumoben]

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

lolz. :D Go Zinc!

[dyvimtorm]

I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

I eagerly await the storm :) Thanks for letting us know it's coming!

[KO_Gilligan]

I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn


I totally agree, and this year at GenCon is gonna rock.....Again :D

[Loekii]

Give them some time, STO hasn't even entered Beta yet, and its like people are expecting a full Guide on ship classes, and abilities, and how to level, etc.

Well Beta is not going to be that long, seeing how they are looking to release this year (so if beta starts in July, thats only 6 months).

I recognize and agree with Zinc - marketing has not started really, but what I am saying is that with the information we do have today, the Website could be better organized/formatted, and thus be more user friendly.

Like I said, the website doesn't convey the information or even the basics of the game all that well. It really feels more like a Dev blog than a game website, imo. Granted, I am also picky about having user-friendly game sites.

[Sumoben]

Well Beta is not going to be that long, seeing how they are looking to release this year (so if beta starts in July, thats only 6 months).

I recognize and agree with Zinc - marketing has not started really, but what I am saying is that with the information we do have today, the Website could be better organized/formatted, and thus be more user friendly.

Like I said, the website doesn't convey the information or even the basics of the game all that well. It really feels more like a Dev blog than a game website, imo. Granted, I am also picky about having user-friendly game sites.

It would, in all honesty, help if Cryptic was handling only one game, but its handling two at the moment, one that is on the cusp of its release. Plus I'm sure they're working as hard as they can, to meet the needs of the community.

[Loekii]

It would, in all honesty, help if Cryptic was handling only one game, but its handling two at the moment, one that is on the cusp of its release. Plus I'm sure they're working as hard as they can, to meet the needs of the community.

I agree.

I think as a community, we are pretty well informed (given what little they can let out).

What I am talking about is the Gamer that is not part of this community.

When they come to the STO website, the lack of organization and information, can be off-putting. If someone is not 'really' interesting in STO, they might just give it a glance, and move on -- instead of sticking around.

If the Current information was better organized into a user-friendly summary on the Main Page, I think more people would become interested -- thus creating a bigger buzz and larger community.

However, also agree how it might be better for STO to not want a Buzz until a month before Launch (hoping to sell more boxes).

[marscentral]

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

Hehehehe, done.

[Beaver8]

"I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it."


It wont be long and everyone will have that quoted, so I will be different before everyone else and NOT do it :p

[thefreshjedi]

Maybe its because Star Trek Online has been in production for years already, but I am not picking up much hype or excitement from the online community. I regularly check around the major gaming sites and here.

There is excitement for the new Star Wars MMO. But I concede that's a different crowd and a different type of game.

But even for Trekkers, I find a lot of in fighting and disagreement. (Mostly about ship interiors and player crews).

There is not a lot of red blooded excitement. Some, but not much. And we are moving closer to beta.

Maybe it's too early for that.

But out of 10, I would say the excitement level of 6/10. It should be around 8 or 9!!

It's got an 8.4 on www.mmorpg.com. I don't know what you consider hype, but it's had a long hard fight to be on that list, and I think that's saying something. I think it's only been till recently that they've really started upping the news and the media information. Not to mention the recent release on MSNBC.com. I'd say that given the wide range of competition they have out there, that they're doing fine, especially with beta coming up soon, and they're still aiming for a 2009 release.

You have to remember that a lot of people left the spectrum when Perpetual did a nose dive, and it's only been up till recently that the more timid fans who felt burnt by the previous collapse have started to stick their necks out again. Once bitten twice shy. Now that we have undeniable proof that this is the real deal, and that it's nearly done, I think you're going to see a huge outpooring of fans.

The market is fickle though, because there are lots, and I mean LOTS of distractions out there. There's XBOX, WII, PS3, and whole mutlitude of other current and soon to be released PC games and MMORPGS in production. So you have to remember that even when STO is released it's not going to turn a whole lot of heads immediately. But as the content develops, and the current fanbase falls in love with the game, I think you'll start seeing a gradual but steady exodus from other games as people come over to check it out.

I highly expect a massive turnover rate from EvE, simply because a lot of EvE players joined EvE, simply because it was the closest thing they could get to a StarTrek like experience in space.

-avery

[Bigwig]

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

Is that a hint, at, like, those of us who were here early, got like, obligatory access to Beta? :D

[CaptainHoliday]

It's got an 8.4 on www.mmorpg.com. I don't know what you consider hype, but it's had a long hard fight to be on that list, and I think that's saying something. I think it's only been till recently that they've really started upping the news and the media information. Not to mention the recent release on MSNBC.com. I'd say that given the wide range of competition they have out there, that they're doing fine, especially with beta coming up soon, and they're still aiming for a 2009 release.

You have to remember that a lot of people left the spectrum when Perpetual did a nose dive, and it's only been up till recently that the more timid fans who felt burnt by the previous collapse have started to stick their necks out again. Once bitten twice shy. Now that we have undeniable proof that this is the real deal, and that it's nearly done, I think you're going to see a huge outpooring of fans.

The market is fickle though, because there are lots, and I mean LOTS of distractions out there. There's XBOX, WII, PS3, and whole mutlitude of other current and soon to be released PC games and MMORPGS in production. So you have to remember that even when STO is released it's not going to turn a whole lot of heads immediately. But as the content develops, and the current fanbase falls in love with the game, I think you'll start seeing a gradual but steady exodus from other games as people come over to check it out.

I highly expect a massive turnover rate from EvE, simply because a lot of EvE players joined EvE, simply because it was the closest thing they could get to a StarTrek like experience in space.

-avery

You could be right. I See STO as a growth title. With expansions and new features like ship interiors and player crews and fleet starbases added post-launch, the game could really have along life.

[CaptainHoliday]

Is that a hint, at, like, those of us who were here early, got like, obligatory access to Beta? :D

you're reaching...

[DoctorX]

Within the next 6 months or so, and as more and more info leaks out, we'll see a surge of people like me :). New to the site, excited about the game, trying to read up on everything available, contributing to the discussions about features and features not included. Oh yeah, and trolls. yay....

Hype is bad. I've seen the insanity that is hype. 99% of the time the hype created before launch leads to massive let downs once the game is released. Even if the game is great, many would have built it up in their heads to be the end-all game of the century and they'll feel let down. Down with hype, up with sudden beta! :)

For the devs. PLEASE do not allow the marketing campaign hijack the beta key process like Sony did with a few games. Having your fans run around registering to every gaming site on the internet just to get a key is insulting and very transparent.

[PattonJ007]

I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

Wait a minute, wait a minute ... how do we know this is really "Zinc" and not some changeling infiltrator?

Sir hold out your arm please ... *grabs a hypospray and prepares to take a blood sample*

:)

[Rivaris]

just wait for when the new game trailers hit the gaming sites and people see whats giong on they will all be back.

a lot of people have been waiting for this game since 2004 when they see its giong strong it will be a party again

[CaptainHoliday]

just wait for when the new game trailers hit the gaming sites and people see whats giong on they will all be back.

a lot of people have been waiting for this game since 2004 when they see its giong strong it will be a party again

look forward to that, things have really quieted down here recently. Maybe the news of no ship interiors at release scared away a lot of people?

[Loekii]

just wait for when the new game trailers hit the gaming sites and people see whats giong on they will all be back.

a lot of people have been waiting for this game since 2004 when they see its giong strong it will be a party again

Hopefully we will be getting some more game trailers. Ideally, I would rather see gameplay videos, because they are less staged in some cases.

Also, anyone know if we Cryptic is going to put money into a Game Cinematic (ie WOW or WAR)? For those unfamilar with what those are, they are like 1 min high quality Graphic films based about the game, but not using the game graphics. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7x9ieXr5M

[CaptainHoliday]

Hopefully we will be getting some more game trailers. Ideally, I would rather see gameplay videos, because they are less staged in some cases.

Also, anyone know if we Cryptic is going to put money into a Game Cinematic (ie WOW or WAR)? For those unfamilar with what those are, they are like 1 min high quality Graphic films based about the game, but not using the game graphics. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7x9ieXr5M


I don't see the point in a Game Cinematic. I want to see in-game footage, nothing else. Anything else would be hyping the game up to unrealistic expectations.

Make a Cinemtic Trailer using in-game footage is fine with me.

A new trailer probably will not arrive until close to launch.

[jagerbolt]

I would love to see some more in game videos, or even better, an in game video depicting an event/battle from the Path to 2409. Won't hold my breath but that would be sweeeet! :D

[CherryTerri]

I am thrilled they (Cryptic) are making this game.

I did follow some time with Perpetual, but after the Gods and Heroes thing and then the company going down I lost interest.

When I found out it was picked up again and learning to Gorn were in it, I was excited again ...

But now the posting here is starting to sound like a broken record and kinda boring. So finding new avenues to amuse myself with.

Sure I stop by each day to see if anything interesting has cropped up, like the Mirror Universe Zinc apparently, but other than that, I'm waiting for more information on how Cryptic sees the Gorn.

[JMD10222]

Every single day I check the STO site for updates (usually more than once, haha). I'd have to say I'm really freaking excited for this game, even moreso than for the movie.

Same here. Not a day goes by that I dont check the site at least twice a day. Also I check Twitter ALOT as well :p

[Father_Origin]

The problem is seated with Perpetual.

Unfortunately they made a bunch of promisses that they had no way to keep (or anyone else
for that manner)

couple that with the failure of that vulcan based star trek game to launch has left
many regular MMO players with cold feet...they think it will just be a reskinned CoH.

They are wrong on that, but if cryptic wants to get some excitement going on this. they
will need to shell out some bucks....stick game trailers on big movies, get gammer mags to
try out the pre-beta themselves to report on it....feature testable versions in the
convension circuit...ect.

[CaptainHoliday]

The problem is seated with Perpetual.

Unfortunately they made a bunch of promisses that they had no way to keep (or anyone else
for that manner)

couple that with the failure of that vulcan based star trek game to launch has left
many regular MMO players with cold feet...they think it will just be a reskinned CoH.

They are wrong on that, but if cryptic wants to get some excitement going on this. they
will need to shell out some bucks....stick game trailers on big movies, get gammer mags to
try out the pre-beta themselves to report on it....feature testable versions in the
convension circuit...ect.

having a trailer specially made for the new Star Trek movie would have been an amazing idea, but it's too late for that to happen. Probably too expensive too.

This is the calm before the storm. We will get all that soon.

[Loneshadow]

Hail Friends,
I just signed up to the forums today so this is coming from someone new. I've been a Star Trek fan since I started watching the Original series in the late 70s (I'm 39).

Seeing the trailer for the first time, I was a little let down by the cartoon look of the ships, stations and space. I had hoped for more of an EVE Online look, not Earth and Beyond. When the Borg ship blew up it had no substance and seemed a little hollow. When a ship blows up it should be bigger and brighter with deep bass sounds so you feel it. The stars in the background look like a 2D background not a 3D space you see in other games and movies. I know this is a work in progress, so this might not be the way it looks a year from now. Just want to try and give you some good feedback.

That said, a game does not always do well by just looking good. :D You need gameplay, sound and fun. You did a great job with the sound. I hope to see ship damage modeling system showing damage where the ship was hit.

I've been playing MMOs since the start of Ultima Online. ATM I'm on a MMO break for the last year because they are all starting to feel the same. I hope that STO will bring me back with new ideas and gameplay never seen before. After I do a lot more reading on STO I'll post a wish list on how I'd like to see the game.

Thanks for reading
Good Journey
Loneshadow
aka Mark

[CaptainHoliday]

Hail Friends,
I just signed up to the forums today so this is coming from someone new. I've been a Star Trek fan since I started watching the Original series in the late 70s (I'm 39).

Seeing the trailer for the first time, I was a little let down by the cartoon look of the ships, stations and space. I had hoped for more of an EVE Online look, not Earth and Beyond. When the Borg ship blew up it had no substance and seemed a little hollow. When a ship blows up it should be bigger and brighter with deep bass sounds so you feel it. The stars in the background look like a 2D background not a 3D space you see in other games and movies. I know this is a work in progress, so this might not be the way it looks a year from now. Just want to try and give you some good feedback.

That said, a game does not always do well by just looking good. :D You need gameplay, sound and fun. You did a great job with the sound. I hope to see ship damage modeling system showing damage where the ship was hit.

I've been playing MMOs since the start of Ultima Online. ATM I'm on a MMO break for the last year because they are all starting to feel the same. I hope that STO will bring me back with new ideas and gameplay never seen before. After I do a lot more reading on STO I'll post a wish list on how I'd like to see the game.

Thanks for reading
Good Journey
Loneshadow
aka Mark

Thanks for your post. But you prove my point, you are a newcomer and you don't seem to have any red-blooded excitement.

For me, the graphics is a disappointment. While not bad, they are not realistic. For Star Trek, I would have wanted a more realistic look ala EVE or Age of Conan.

Gameplay-wise, we don't know that much. but the news of no player ship interiors or player crews really is a downer too. It means they are aiming for a more single-player experience, simplistic.

Two towering aspects of any MMO and STO has 2 knocks against it.

Can it be overcome?

[Shadowboss]

I'm going to reserve judgment; it's early, not time yet for a full roll-out. the excitement, I think is there, but people haven't fully tuned in to STO yet, and they won't until the movie comes out. as far as the game itself...these guys are holding back, big time..we've seen nothing yet. patience...

[thefreshjedi]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, this was the filmed reaction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieeh9GUGN6A) of news about STO's impending release.


-avery

[The_Sisko]

It would, in all honesty, help if Cryptic was handling only one game, but its handling two at the moment, one that is on the cusp of its release. Plus I'm sure they're working as hard as they can, to meet the needs of the community.

Cryptic is actually making three games at the moment.

The third is still in the very early stages of development. There's some concept art on Cryptic's In Development page (http://www.crypticstudios.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=34).

[Moryan_Sorg]

the Mirror Universe Zinc.

Haha, nice. Did you coin that? I'm for sure going to sue it :D

Thanks for your post. But you prove my point, you are a newcomer and you don't seem to have any red-blooded excitement.

For me, the graphics is a disappointment. While not bad, they are not realistic. For Star Trek, I would have wanted a more realistic look ala EVE or Age of Conan.

Gameplay-wise, we don't know that much. but the news of no player ship interiors or player crews really is a downer too. It means they are aiming for a more single-player experience, simplistic.

Two towering aspects of any MMO and STO has 2 knocks against it.

Can it be overcome?

I play AoC and I can tell you that while it is insanely pretty, it's still not real. You can still see the pixelation all over (look at the plant life). Here is a very accurate representation of in game graphics (my guess is on medium or high settings):
AoC pic (http://atomizer.sux2b.us/screenshots/8800GTX/aoc/AgeOfConan%202008-05-04%2013-25-13-76.jpg)

New look at the STO Screen shot:
http://uploads.startrekonline.com/sto_screen_032709_02.jpg

While it isn't quite as real, it has smoother edges and more pleasing to the eye IMO. I play realistic when I am in RL.

On a side note, game play is a much bigger deal (notice the quest: "The Evil That Men Do" > Kill the Red Hand (0/50), this is a very real and normal quest in AoC).

[metl]

I never thought AoC looked real. Nice yes, but real? I've yet to see any video game match the real beauty of being somewhere firsthand. I like the direction STO is on. AoC was too much of a resource hog, with terrible lag and way too many "instance" areas. And I detest mass kill quests. anything more than 10 is just a chore and not fun.

[CaptainHoliday]

Haha, nice. Did you coin that? I'm for sure going to sue it :D



I play AoC and I can tell you that while it is insanely pretty, it's still not real. You can still see the pixelation all over (look at the plant life). Here is a very accurate representation of in game graphics (my guess is on medium or high settings):
AoC pic (http://atomizer.sux2b.us/screenshots/8800GTX/aoc/AgeOfConan%202008-05-04%2013-25-13-76.jpg)

New look at the STO Screen shot:
http://uploads.startrekonline.com/sto_screen_032709_02.jpg

While it isn't quite as real, it has smoother edges and more pleasing to the eye IMO. I play realistic when I am in RL.

On a side note, game play is a much bigger deal (notice the quest: "The Evil That Men Do" > Kill the Red Hand (0/50), this is a very real and normal quest in AoC).

I think the planets and space look pretty good. But the ships are not realistic enough for my tastes, as with the characters. I have not seen enough of ground gameplay.

That said, the ships are probably the best graphically of any Star Trek game to date. So maybe my standards are too high.

As for gameplay, we don't know enough.

[Tamgros]

As cool as it is for us to chat it up about STO all day, in the end, most of it is just talk. Even us good natured ST fans can get somewhat testy from being burnt out waiting. It's in our nature to hear about something and then want to try it, not to wait an indefinite amount of time that isn't in our control.

That, and STO is still and unfinished product. Why release a bunch of stuff and draw attention to something that probably won't be as good as the final product? This is very similar to the way that Beta testers shouldn't release any information about the game during Beta testing. Premature information spreading has been very problematic to otherwise great games...

[doam]

I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn


Done and done. And if you can get your car out to queensland, I'll even wash it for ya for 1/2 price.



But anyway, it's nice to see so many of the aggregates carrying so much of the info releases, as so often they care more about $$$ than actually reporting news and/or information.

[DracoPalin]

I think the planets and space look pretty good. But the ships are not realistic enough for my tastes, as with the characters. I have not seen enough of ground gameplay.

That said, the ships are probably the best graphically of any Star Trek game to date. So maybe my standards are too high.

As for gameplay, we don't know enough.

The planets are Beautiful.

Space is Beautiful.

The characters are Beautiful by any reasonable MMO standard.

And as for the ships they look Wounderful IMO if by real you mean (not gritty enough) then thats a personal opinion. If by real you mean (Photo realistic) then go watch a movie. this sir is a GAME, nothing more and nothing less. The ships do NOT look "cartoony" at all. they look like a GAME.

As for there not being any excitement.

Pardon my asking but are we on the same website?:confused:
this community is excited beyond any reasonable amount for a game with so little concrete info.
I know that I go to sleep thinking about this game and wake up the next day thinking about it
And I visit this site at least twice a day.

So in conclusion....STO=FtW!!!!!!:D

[crewman_number6]

I for one am really excited about STO and I think once the movie comes out and is a success you will see more people buzzing about the game.

[-Brett-]

After the Voyager/Enterprise/Nemesis years, it's understandably difficult even for Star Trek fans to get excited about anything Star Trek.

Considering that handicap, STO is doing pretty well.

[Decius]

The new movie (if good) could help with this a bit. We'll just have to wait and see.

[SirReginaldo]

It depends on what you are fishing for. This is a variable timeline changed by the future. I dont know what to expect really. I hope it is going to be a little more exciting then I anticpate:D Maybe something like the beginning of First Contact. That was exciting to see the fleet barely holding that borg cube off of Earth, for like the 2nd time (I think);)

[Nikka33]

I am looking forward to STO. The issue with me is, just keeping the excitement in check for most part and not going over board.
Have been bit before by the hype bug on an occasion or two and was dissappointed when the hype outdid the reality of the game.
So it's a live and learn thing. Just going to be patient and wait, see what they got going on and keep any early judgements to a minimum till more is out.
I am excited about STO and have been since I first heard about it some time back, but I am going to mostly just sit back and be patient till they let us know more.

[jwood299]

Give it untill the 3 month count down, then people will start to go nuts...

[scroll33]

But still Cryptic has shown by a magnitude of 100x more than what Perpetual ever showed. There's little chance of STO being cancelled again, this game is sure to go to release, barring some extraordinary circumstance.

Since the Vegas announcement last summer there has not been overwhelming anticipation, which you would expect for a Trek MMO.

Does it have to do with the game Cryptic is making, the graphics and gameplay choices? It could be.


It was the best thing that could ever happen for Startrek fans waiting for a Starterk themed MMO. From what I have seen, Cryptic understand the universe in a way Perpetual never did (certainly not from the few screens we saw).

[TechDragon]

For the record, I am super excited about this game. Really truly excited. I'd go into more detail, but I might accidentally turn this into an incoherent rant about things I've been looking for in a good space MMO game and why I hope to have found them here.

[Busby]

Yea i have complete confidence in Cryptic's ability to make a quality 'Star Trek' mmo. Lets say this again a STAR TREK mmo.

Its really easy to just put a bog standard mmo out there with a nice shiney Star Trek sticker on it, but from what i've seen so far Cryptic really have outdone themselves to try and get that feel of Star Trek. Not only that but very carefully writting the history to the year that we will be playing in release.

Many companies would've just said "ok we're releasing the game in this time. Klingons and Fed are at war, and monkey borgs are the galaxies greatest threat." Well something like that :P

[Arcticfrost]

Maybe its because Star Trek Online has been in production for years already, but I am not picking up much hype or excitement from the online community. I regularly check around the major gaming sites and here.

There is excitement for the new Star Wars MMO. But I concede that's a different crowd and a different type of game.

But even for Trekkers, I find a lot of in fighting and disagreement. (Mostly about ship interiors and player crews).

There is not a lot of red blooded excitement. Some, but not much. And we are moving closer to beta.

Maybe it's too early for that.

But out of 10, I would say the excitement level of 6/10. It should be around 8 or 9!!

That’s because some of use have been waiting for STO for like two years now and it’s hard to stay hyped for that long. However the day before the release date I think your going to see some hype;)

[Loekii]

I don't see the point in a Game Cinematic. I want to see in-game footage, nothing else. Anything else would be hyping the game up to unrealistic expectations.

Make a Cinemtic Trailer using in-game footage is fine with me.

A new trailer probably will not arrive until close to launch.

Cinematic are not confined to the game engine, nor are they restricted to 'PR/NDA' elements -- they can show things in the Cinematic, that they cannot show because it has yet to be cleared.

For example, WAR cinematic came out 1 year before launch. Obviously the game engine was not polished, there were many things still 'up in the air' or 'under iteration'. Had they been restricted to just game footage, they really could not show much of anything.

With a Cinematic, you are basically just doing a conceptual rendering of the ficiton, without saying anything specifically about game mechanics -- thus not violating NDA/PR restrictions.

That freedom allows for a Cinematic to be released, where 'in game footage' could not be released.

I would rather see a nice cinematic, than see nothing because game the game footage is either hindered by PR/NDA, or it is simply not polished enough.

[dwarner]

I couldn't be more excited for the game. I check the website for updates every day, but I have little interest in reading the same endless forum debates over the scraps of information that have been released so far. I wouldn't necessarily equate forum participation with excitement about the game at this point.

[Loekii]

Hail Friends,
I just signed up to the forums today so this is coming from someone new. I've been a Star Trek fan since I started watching the Original series in the late 70s (I'm 39).

Seeing the trailer for the first time, I was a little let down by the cartoon look of the ships, stations and space. I had hoped for more of an EVE Online look, not Earth and Beyond. When the Borg ship blew up it had no substance and seemed a little hollow. When a ship blows up it should be bigger and brighter with deep bass sounds so you feel it. The stars in the background look like a 2D background not a 3D space you see in other games and movies. I know this is a work in progress, so this might not be the way it looks a year from now. Just want to try and give you some good feedback.

That said, a game does not always do well by just looking good. :D You need gameplay, sound and fun. You did a great job with the sound. I hope to see ship damage modeling system showing damage where the ship was hit.

I've been playing MMOs since the start of Ultima Online. ATM I'm on a MMO break for the last year because they are all starting to feel the same. I hope that STO will bring me back with new ideas and gameplay never seen before. After I do a lot more reading on STO I'll post a wish list on how I'd like to see the game.

Thanks for reading
Good Journey
Loneshadow
aka Mark

I would say that the Trailer was restricted to the tools at the time (June 08). The game is not slated for release until late 09 (about a 1.5 year later).

So the Trailer is probably a very unpolished rendering of what they hope the final product may look like -- sort of watching the how screenshots tend to improve in other Game Development, as they polish shading, lighting sources, and other graphic effects.

[9akenny]

I remember when LOTR online was first announced (I think it was originally called Middle Earth Online then). The community went wild, with many rabid fans foaming at the mouth for details. As time went by and not much detail was forthcoming everyone cooled down a little. Then the videos of the game engine came and everyone experienced crushing dissapointment.
When the game was handed over to Turbine, who immediately junked the whole thing and started over, nobody got fantastically excited, even though they were much more forthcoming with info.
My point is, love it or not it turned out to be one of the best and (more importantly) most popular mmo's going.
I'm hoping that this game will follow a similar route. Cryptic certainly have the pedigree to bring out a top notch game.

[SenshiBat]

I totally agree, and this year at Gen Con is gonna rock.....Again :D

You have to remember there is little logic in holding a pre-launch parade this early..

Early reservations on DS9 would however be Prudent.. As My logic predicts an over population that will
through off the gyros and tedder you into the wormhole.. leaving more Galaxy just for me..
a few spare Feringgi and a breen or two.. and of Course KO and Topeka..
--------------------------
Prosper as long as you so live..

[ShawnCooks]

I think eveyone is sick of waiting for STO to come out, I for one have ben waiting for years for it. I am still waiting for it but starting to look into other games

[tonymetpolice]

im sure it will pick up soon. but its true theres not alot of data (excuse the bad pun) to go over at the moment. i just had a loOk at SW: TOR's website and im not sure how the two games compare in terms of development schedule but there dos seem to be alot more on there. some videos, some more in game information would help.

bit early for the marketing to kick in but im sure they have a plan for that too. publicity for the new film will help as well

[Awarkle]

it could also be that the MMO comunity as a large has grown to realise that over hyped MMOs generally fail, i mean we can look back at the previous years releases, such as AOC or WARhammer and they were hyped by both the companies and the comunities. Only to be margonally succesful. I think Cryptic is keeping it under their hat they arnt proclaiming this will change MMOs and will be a WOW killer. because it wont be.

STO will be very niche as long as cryptic maintain a stable population and not have full servers on release and ghost town 3 months later it will be a success.

likewise they arnt really releasing what the game will do and as such we arnt going to end up with the WARHAMMER. This will be amazing and be better than daoc only to have 2 months before release. Ok we arnt actually releasing all the content but we will be in 6 months time.

OR age of conans, look at these amazing dx10 graphics o wait they arnt finished and we got at least a years worth of class balancing to do before we even touch dx10, o and we may port this to console but dont hold your breath.

IM looking forward to STO but History has proven me if anything to be paitent and wait dont get overhyped over anything because in the end your going to be putting the game on a high pedestal and then be major let down.

Ill just mention spore as a prime example of a hyped game that everyone wanted (legacy was another one) only at release to be given a sub par game that was missing all the fun parts you wanted in.

So although there is no excitement yet. The mmo comunity no longer gets excited we wait to see what actually gets delivered and not what the companies "promise".

[tonymetpolice]

it could also be that the MMO comunity as a large has grown to realise that over hyped MMOs generally fail, i mean we can look back at the previous years releases, such as AOC or WARhammer and they were hyped by both the companies and the comunities. Only to be margonally succesful. I think Cryptic is keeping it under their hat they arnt proclaiming this will change MMOs and will be a WOW killer. because it wont be.

STO will be very niche as long as cryptic maintain a stable population and not have full servers on release and ghost town 3 months later it will be a success.

likewise they arnt really releasing what the game will do and as such we arnt going to end up with the WARHAMMER. This will be amazing and be better than daoc only to have 2 months before release. Ok we arnt actually releasing all the content but we will be in 6 months time.

OR age of conans, look at these amazing dx10 graphics o wait they arnt finished and we got at least a years worth of class balancing to do before we even touch dx10, o and we may port this to console but dont hold your breath.

IM looking forward to STO but History has proven me if anything to be paitent and wait dont get overhyped over anything because in the end your going to be putting the game on a high pedestal and then be major let down.

Ill just mention spore as a prime example of a hyped game that everyone wanted (legacy was another one) only at release to be given a sub par game that was missing all the fun parts you wanted in.

So although there is no excitement yet. The mmo comunity no longer gets excited we wait to see what actually gets delivered and not what the companies "promise".

im just trying to remind myself that the main thing is to get the principal game mechanics and ideas right. all these nice ideas and massive things people want (shuttles, fully explorable interiors) wont mean anything if thats not done right. all tha other stuff can be added after launch as we go

[NXColumbia]

The amount of hype around here seems normal (in my opinion) for any game. Keep in mind that there is an "acceptable" level of hype and there's too much. The latter often leads to unreasonable expectations and dissapointment.

I hate to rain on anybody's parade but keep STO could still be cancelled. The economic state we're in puts Cryptic at a disadvantage, especially with STO being an MMORPG.

All things considered, it's probably better that hype isn't out of control.


I'm confident however that the developers will finish the job.

[Sinclair]

No excitement? I think that is a natural feeling if you have been spending all of these years since Perpetual had the game just waiting. Waiting gets old and stale. After having waited on a few MMOs I've gotten to the point where I tend to not pay much attention to it until about 6 months prior to a potential beta. That's when things start picking up, news starts to flow, and more and more people come to the game. I think maybe we're getting to that point about now. Hopefully at least!

As for excitement, I see several posts about STO on Massively.Com on a weekly basis, and have seen STO advertised at prominent places such as MSNBC.com. So I think the excitement is building.

[theexplorer1]

A few years back during the perpetual days i got incredibly excited....Yet it all got burned to ash...

When i learned that the game would still be made by Cryptic i was intrigued as they are a very talented team of developers.
Yet a large part of questionable design decisions has left me out cold about the game.

Cartoony graphics are a huge letdown and turn off for me.Having in mind that many star trek fans are nowdays at their late 30's,40's or even 50's if they are going to spend time on a game they want for something realistic looking.
Secondly the interior removal matter didn't help either for giving hope and excitement to people.The good news are that finally cryptic confirmed that interiors for ship and bases Will be properly made and released on a later time.
But still why couldn't the devs just postpone the game a couple of months/half of a year later than planned and release the game complete?
During the last few years we got a hell of a lot triple A+ titles to play...Unless you stay all day home and play 24hours/day games you probably haven't played even half of these titles..So is having Sto released so urgent ?
No it is not.
There is time still to improve upon the game.Certainly an improved look that feels and looks more realistic could really built up excitement about the game.But this is upon cryptics hand now...

[_Pax_]

Cartoony graphics are a huge letdown and turn off for me.Having in mind that many star trek fans are nowdays at their late 30's,40's or even 50's if they are going to spend time on a game they want for something realistic looking.
In 22 hours and 16 minutes, I will turn 38. I have no problem with the stylised graphics of STO as we have seen them to date. Age has nothing to do with whether or not one likes X style over Y style.

You continue to be nothing but wrong, nic - about pretty much everything relating to anything at all. :rolleyes:

[CaptainHoliday]

A few years back during the perpetual days i got incredibly excited....Yet it all got burned to ash...

When i learned that the game would still be made by Cryptic i was intrigued as they are a very talented team of developers.
Yet a large part of questionable design decisions has left me out cold about the game.

Cartoony graphics are a huge letdown and turn off for me.Having in mind that many star trek fans are nowdays at their late 30's,40's or even 50's if they are going to spend time on a game they want for something realistic looking.
Secondly the interior removal matter didn't help either for giving hope and excitement to people.The good news are that finally cryptic confirmed that interiors for ship and bases Will be properly made and released on a later time.
But still why couldn't the devs just postpone the game a couple of months/half of a year later than planned and release the game complete?
During the last few years we got a hell of a lot triple A+ titles to play...Unless you stay all day home and play 24hours/day games you probably haven't played even half of these titles..So is having Sto released so urgent ?
No it is not.
There is time still to improve upon the game.Certainly an improved look that feels and looks more realistic could really built up excitement about the game.But this is upon cryptics hand now...

They have not confirmed interiors for post-launch, maybe you were referring to the Fake Zinc interview. They HOPE to do it, is best we know now.

[Silverspar]

They have not confirmed interiors for post-launch, maybe you were referring to the Fake Zinc interview. They HOPE to do it, is best we know now.

Zinc might disagree with you;

Wow. After reading this thread, even I'm confused about what we're planning to do. : )

No, not really. I think I have a clear idea:

There will be plenty of interiors in the game at launch - there are plenty in the game right now and I don't see them going anywhere. : )

You will be taken to interiors during instanced missions. You'll go to them in persistent ways as well - mostly social, but also in other cases that I'm going to be vague about right now on purpose : ) - There are starbases, satellites, ship interiors (yes, ships), buildings on the ground, caverns under the earth or deep in asteroids - all sorts of places you'll adventure within interiors.

Sadly, what we won't have at launch is the ability for you to customize your own ship, invite other players over and walkaround, seeing hundreds of NPC crew members and investigate every nook, cranny and Jefferies tube on it. We want to make sure that when we a feature like this in, it is a robust system that people will love, not just a marketing bullet point on the back of the box.

-Zn

And on the point of his customizing ship he meant the interiors.

Yes - thanks for pointing that out. I was just talking interiors. Your ship exterior will be customizable.

-Zn

And considering this was from a post you started....

[CaptainHoliday]

Zinc might disagree with you;



And on the point of his customizing ship he meant the interiors.



And considering this was from a post you started....

I know this article. And Zinc does not confirm ship interiors in this article, just just says when they are added, that not they will be added. He might as well have added when and if they are added.

[Silverspar]

I know this article. And Zinc does not confirm ship interiors in this article, just just says when they are added, that not they will be added. He might as well have added when and if they are added.

It's not an article it's a post, and actually he does, he says they want to do them right, not give a slap dash attempt.

[osena]

STO we be my guilty pleasure vary much like SWTOR am not open about my geekdom lol

[marscentral]

In 22 hours and 16 minutes, I will turn 38.

Happy birthday for then. :D

[KO_Gilligan]

It's not an article it's a post, and actually he does, he says they want to do them right, not give a slap dash attempt.

Fact:
When Player's Interiors are done, they will be right.

Fact:
That says nothing

You think somebody is actually working on them based on that?

Keep dreaming

He said nothing of the sort, just substitute If where it says when, right Craig?

Or is it just fine that we keep hearing Cryptic has promised customizable interiors are planned, and confirmed on their way after launch?

Zinc might disagree with you.



Actually hasn't yet

after miles of this kind of response to his post..

He hasn't yet

The interiors issue has become a public relations debacle.
I say there are none on the way, and I've said it loud and clear... over and over and over
It really is time to move on - one instance of my IF talk actually disappeared.

still no clarity on the matter - You inderstand why? because they don't want to say you Won't get them - maybe you will.
simple matter really.

get a dev to say I'm wrong :cool:

They can't

[KO_Gilligan]

A few years back during the perpetual days i got incredibly excited....Yet it all got burned to ash...

When i learned that the game would still be made by Cryptic i was intrigued as they are a very talented team of developers.
Yet a large part of questionable design decisions has left me out cold about the game.

Cartoony graphics are a huge letdown and turn off for me.Having in mind that many star trek fans are nowdays at their late 30's,40's or even 50's if they are going to spend time on a game they want for something realistic looking.
Secondly the interior removal matter didn't help either for giving hope and excitement to people.The good news are that finally cryptic confirmed that interiors for ship and bases Will be properly made and released on a later time.
But still why couldn't the devs just postpone the game a couple of months/half of a year later than planned and release the game complete?
During the last few years we got a hell of a lot triple A+ titles to play...Unless you stay all day home and play 24hours/day games you probably haven't played even half of these titles..So is having Sto released so urgent ?
No it is not.
There is time still to improve upon the game.Certainly an improved look that feels and looks more realistic could really built up excitement about the game.But this is upon cryptics hand now...

You should start a fund for this. Better yet, petition Atari's board of directors. I'm sure they will have to see the simplicity of your strategy. I'm certain you're accomplishing nothing here with it.

[_Pax_]

Happy birthday for then. :D

Thank you! :)

[dryzabone]

In 22 hours and 16 minutes, I will turn 38. I have no problem with the stylised graphics of STO as we have seen them to date. Age has nothing to do with whether or not one likes X style over Y style.

You continue to be nothing but wrong, nic - about pretty much everything relating to anything at all. :rolleyes:
Yep happy birthday old fella :D

[oleum]

In 22 hours and 16 minutes, I will turn 38. I have no problem with the stylised graphics of STO as we have seen them to date. Age has nothing to do with whether or not one likes X style over Y style.

You continue to be nothing but wrong, nic - about pretty much everything relating to anything at all. :rolleyes:

Happy Birthday!

And to celebrate your pending maturity a post from you which I agree a 100% with. The graphics look fine to me too, good in fact. Of course I'm 45 so perhaps my eyesight is going....

[oleum]

Fact:
When Player's Interiors are done, they will be right.

Fact:
That says nothing

You think somebody is actually working on them based on that?

Keep dreaming

He said nothing of the sort, just substitute If where it says when, right Craig?

Or is it just fine that we keep hearing Cryptic has promised customizable interiors are planned, and confirmed on their way after launch?



Actually hasn't yet

after miles of this kind of response to his post..

He hasn't yet

The interiors issue has become a public relations debacle.
I say there are none on the way, and I've said it loud and clear... over and over and over
It really is time to move on - one instance of my IF talk actually disappeared.

still no clarity on the matter - You inderstand why? because they don't want to say you Won't get them - maybe you will.
simple matter really.

get a dev to say I'm wrong :cool:

They can't

Hmm, how did this thread get perverted to ship interiors

/yawn

I doubt manty gamers care less whether they are in at launch. Some trekkies might, but then Trekkies are probably not the core market for this game. If they were you would never get interiors cos the game wouldn't sell enough boxes to fund their development.

Just let the development team do their job and get the core of the game built right and fun to play. Extra content and ideas can be pushed out later. If they get things right there will be funds to build in improvements to the game.

I saw a post by Loekii (in this thread) where he said something along the lines that this needs marketing to MMO gamers. I agree. The excitement so far is about 90% from Star Trek fans. To be a big success it needs to be 90% from gamers.

[DracoPalin]

Pardon a minor observation but,

Is it just me or do the few posters that agree with CaptHoliday
seem to echo his opinion excactaly? I dont mean just a liile
similar but scary to the extreme similar,like nearly the same. hmmm?

If you take a quick glance ant the one or two that are in agreement with
him you will find that the issue of "cartoony" graphics apears in them all,
as does the issue of ship interiors.

Now I know that I have had my own Interior thread, but it in not a deal
breaker issue for me. especialy scince Cryptic has made it a non-issue
with very a clear statement of Not now,Mabey later.

Earlier in this thread it was posted that good ole Cap has a tendancy
to harp on these subjects,and it was supposed that he makes other
acounts in order to suport his opinion.

I now believe this to be true,and hope you all are able to see this as well
and dismiss him for the trouble maker he is.

and again.....STO=FtW:)

[doam]

I've got him on ignore, I'm surprised more people don't. I just came here to suck up to craig. Because he's dreamy.

[DracoPalin]

I saw a post by Loekii (in this thread) where he said something along the lines that this needs marketing to MMO gamers. I agree. The excitement so far is about 90% from Star Trek fans. To be a big success it needs to be 90% from gamers.

Forgive me Oleum, our opinions are usualy similar and we get along prety well but,

As a Trekkie I take offense to your post,just why do you think that Star Trek fans would be
unable to suport this game?

If your issue is numbers please keep in mind that there are Millions of us.
And that a great many of us are also avid gamers.
Or are you simply stateing that we have neither the ability or the desire
to play such a game?
It seams to me that you are pigeonhloeing Trekkies as a minor group of pennieless
nerds living in there parents basement and I believe your statement is unfairly biased, steriotyped and prejudised.

Again man Im sorry if my opinion is wrong, I do not mean to offend but this is the way I feal.

[VainEldritch]

There may be millions of trekkies but how many of "us" will be playing this game? To "live long and prosper" they need to cast their net wider, that is clear.

The new movie franchise looks like a great success with the potential to build up a good number of films in the next decade (or two!), and that will keep Trek in the public conscience and also I would imagine copies of STO on the store shelves (be they vitual shelves or actual high street box spaces) for the duration of the franchise and beyond.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

It seams to me that you are pigeonhloeing Trekkies as a minor group of pennieless
nerds living in there parents basement and I believe your statement is unfairly biased, steriotyped and prejudised.

You're reading a great deal into what Oleum said in order to take offense, since he didn't say any such thing.

[OddjobXL]

The reason you need to appeal to the fan base is because they're the bedrock. If you do it right they'll come and never leave. Why? Because they're here for the one guaranteed unique aspect of the game: the license. Get them on your side and you've got a fanatical army backing you up however small relative to the total population of gamers. Get them against you and you're sailing into a headwind.

The corollary is that a strong setting that's well represented will also attract roleplayers and they, like fans, will fanatically dig in and back a product that appeals to them. They also bring event planners and storytellers with them that can generate content. There's a reason roleplayers become a more and more important demographic in an MMO the smaller the population is: they entertain themselves and form stronger communal bonds, grounded in a particular setting/game and social milieu rather than nomadically following new trends, than most other gamers. Roleplayers also tend to attract mature gamers and mature gamers are more likely to consider questions like aesthetics and verisimilitude/simulation as important factors in game design. A strong grasp of those is also important to license fans and roleplayers.

Fans and roleplayers are also far more likely to have multiple accounts or to buy assorted products related to the MMO if they're into it. The more detail they have to flesh out their imaginations or to put on a shelf and admire the happier they are.

SWG spurned the setting and the fans for experimental designs and a dependency on PvP gameplay. While SWG did have strong roleplay design elements, and does to this day which is why I'm still there, it completely failed to deliver the setting promised by the IP and known by millions of people worldwide.

Star Trek is no less famous a property and known by hundreds of millions of people around the world. Even folks that aren't hardcore fans will still love the setting for similar reasons. The first and last question many of them will ask themselves will be "Is this what I thought it would be?"

The trick is to capture the essence of the franchise while turning it into compelling gameplay. Of course just getting "Star Trek" right won't make the game a success but screwing it up too badly will be suicide. A good designer needs to get both right. That's pretty much the definition of a good design when working with a famous IP.

[Fernos]

Pardon a minor observation but,

Is it just me or do the few posters that agree with CaptHoliday
seem to echo his opinion excactaly? I dont mean just a liile
similar but scary to the extreme similar,like nearly the same. hmmm?

If you take a quick glance ant the one or two that are in agreement with
him you will find that the issue of "cartoony" graphics apears in them all,
as does the issue of ship interiors.

Now I know that I have had my own Interior thread, but it in not a deal
breaker issue for me. especialy scince Cryptic has made it a non-issue
with very a clear statement of Not now,Mabey later.

Earlier in this thread it was posted that good ole Cap has a tendancy
to harp on these subjects,and it was supposed that he makes other
acounts in order to suport his opinion.

I now believe this to be true,and hope you all are able to see this as well
and dismiss him for the trouble maker he is.

and again.....STO=FtW:)


You will find that a few of the agenda seekers do this, and yes they are best ignored.

[KO_Gilligan]

Hmm, how did this thread get perverted to ship interiors

/yawn



Maybe you were sleepy and didn't realize that was the intent of direction of the thread and the theme of the orignal poster :rolleyes:

Did you not notice how the problems with features and coming to early and CaptainHoliday's usual pet feature, slowly evolving into this. In context, it was pretty clear all along. Hardly "got Perverted" into it.

get some rest

:rolleyes:

[SenshiBat]

Yes Debate is all very good and such..

We are simply trapped into a long time line process caused by the previous DEV [ P word] Failure.

We must now endure and soldier on to see the "Fruit of the Cryptic Tree.."

Taking the TM to the woodshed forces aspects of the process to recede..
Why hold contest if they complain, why give updates if they complain ,
Why give more on twitter
why go on IRC..

If it becomes a Chore and less fun; the productivity of a Creative mind suffers.
It is simple human psychology.. a negative reinforcement.

I am excited to see a TREK product like this because it has been like the running gag of Battle-cruiser 2000
or Duke Nukem Forever..

Almost an Urban Myth.. the unattainable game...Like Vulcan Fury.. just out of reach..

Now the Big name Company Atari Division has the faith to invest in Cryptic to get ur done!

This is like a camera stand now ...they cannot afford to have a leg kicked out now.. they must advance or fail.
The vocal minority has spoken.. and middle ground interested.

Now it is time for the rest of the Community to stand up and Say..
We are not blind fan-boys/girls.. We Love Star Trek so we would like to see it done properly.. by any one.

So in conclusion KO is right and others are right and Cryptics the right fit to do this project because they have good people and the Lic right now.. I can live with a tribble with a wrong hair part..
as Gene Roddenberry is dead no one can correct them that invented it.. Who am I to be the one to make job harder..

[Hagon]

The reason you need to appeal to the fan base is because they're the bedrock. If you do it right they'll come and never leave. Why? Because they're here for the one guaranteed unique aspect of the game: the license. Get them on your side and you've got a fanatical army backing you up however small relative to the total population of gamers. Get them against you and you're sailing into a headwind.

The corollary is that a strong setting that's well represented will also attract roleplayers and they, like fans, will fanatically dig in and back a product that appeals to them. They also bring event planners and storytellers with them that can generate content. There's a reason roleplayers become a more and more important demographic in an MMO the smaller the population is: they entertain themselves and form stronger communal bonds, grounded in a particular setting/game and social milieu rather than nomadically following new trends, than most other gamers. Roleplayers also tend to attract mature gamers and mature gamers are more likely to consider questions like aesthetics and verisimilitude/simulation as important factors in game design. A strong grasp of those is also important to license fans and roleplayers.

Fans and roleplayers are also far more likely to have multiple accounts or to buy assorted products related to the MMO if they're into it. The more detail they have to flesh out their imaginations or to put on a shelf and admire the happier they are.

SWG spurned the setting and the fans for experimental designs and a dependency on PvP gameplay. While SWG did have strong roleplay design elements, and does to this day which is why I'm still there, it completely failed to deliver the setting promised by the IP and known by millions of people worldwide.

Star Trek is no less famous a property and known by hundreds of millions of people around the world. Even folks that aren't hardcore fans will still love the setting for similar reasons. The first and last question many of them will ask themselves will be "Is this what I thought it would be?"

The trick is to capture the essence of the franchise while turning it into compelling gameplay. Of course just getting "Star Trek" right won't make the game a success but screwing it up too badly will be suicide. A good designer needs to get both right. That's pretty much the definition of a good design when working with a famous IP.Here we have a post chalk full of rhetoric that simply doesn't stand up under the hard light of reality.

Roleplayers don't stay in a game any longer than any other specific group of people. They're not "special" in that respect, nor in any other respect. They're just players of these games like everyone else, and will stay playing as long as they find the game and the people thay're playing along side fun and interesting, just like anyone else.

As for the IP specific fans, well it's been shown they do more harm than good in a number of games, as well as never making up any substantial number of the player base. Catering to IP specific fans is what made SWG a failure out of the gate ( for example, creating a Star Wars game and make playing a Jedi almost impossible... that was a smart move alright :rolleyes: ).

In the end it is as it always is with these games. Fun content and well designed mechanics is what keeps players in a game, from all play style preferences, and probably most importantly having an atmosphere where players build loyalties to their friends.

If anything fans and roleplayers are caustic to these games.

They usually work to constrain them to the point of driving away the general gamer, and when they're specific desires aren't met they have shown over and over that they are absolutely the most vile and vindictive types. We see it on display here in this very thread, and have been seeing it since the day this forum went up.

[Loekii]

Forgive me Oleum, our opinions are usualy similar and we get along prety well but,

As a Trekkie I take offense to your post,just why do you think that Star Trek fans would be
unable to suport this game?

If your issue is numbers please keep in mind that there are Millions of us.
And that a great many of us are also avid gamers.
Or are you simply stateing that we have neither the ability or the desire
to play such a game?
It seams to me that you are pigeonhloeing Trekkies as a minor group of pennieless
nerds living in there parents basement and I believe your statement is unfairly biased, steriotyped and prejudised.

Again man Im sorry if my opinion is wrong, I do not mean to offend but this is the way I feal.

I mean no disrespect, but I think the numbers indicate that Trekkies are not a consumer force, atleast specifically for a Subscription (pay for play) MMO video game.

It is not that Trekkies are 'penniless', but rather that they are not a marketing force. They do not support their series, they are not strong enough to get a 'new' Star Trek series going, and in my opinion, I do not see them as a source of consistent revenue -- like you see in Gamers.

To clarify, not every Trekkie is a gamer, nor do they want to be a gamer. Many Trekkies just watch the show, and do not spend anymore money. Then you have the ones that simply wont spend their money on a Video game (Buy novels and collectables, etc), let alone the idea of a 'Pay to Play' game.

Of those that do game, I would say the limited amount of Star Trek video games across the various platforms and PC, is an indication that they are not really a targeted market -- certainly not like the MMO gamer, the Fallout, Guitar Hero, GTA, etc gamer. Developers are tripping over themselves to create games for those players, but not Star Trek.

I would feel differently if I witness Trekkies lobbing to bring back Star Trek Series, or gobbling up Star Trek Video Games in such mass, that we see numerous Star Trek Video games across the platforms (instead of the few scattered ones).

[psk453]

I mean no disrespect, but I think the numbers indicate that Trekkies are not a consumer force, atleast specifically for a Subscription (pay for play) MMO video game.

It is not that Trekkies are 'penniless', but rather that they are not a marketing force. They do not support their series, they are not strong enough to get a 'new' Star Trek series going, and in my opinion, I do not see them as a source of consistent revenue -- like you see in Gamers.

To clarify, not every Trekkie is a gamer, nor do they want to be a gamer. Many Trekkies just watch the show, and do not spend anymore money. Then you have the ones that simply wont spend their money on a Video game (Buy novels and collectables, etc), let alone the idea of a 'Pay to Play' game.

Of those that do game, I would say the limited amount of Star Trek video games across the various platforms and PC, is an indication that they are not really a targeted market -- certainly not like the MMO gamer, the Fallout, Guitar Hero, GTA, etc gamer. Developers are tripping over themselves to create games for those players, but not Star Trek.

I would feel differently if I witness Trekkies lobbing to bring back Star Trek Series, or gobbling up Star Trek Video Games in such mass, that we see numerous Star Trek Video games across the platforms (instead of the few scattered ones).


1. The problem with Trek games is that they have mostly been crap. But, they still have their loyal defenders, just a quick browse through these forums will prove that. Plus, there are tons of them, the problem with them being crap was that they went through way too many developers and had no sense of direction. That is why people have high hopes for this game. It has direction!

2. You say that fans don't want another series? Really, why is there a new movie coming out then? Yes, I have my problems with the last couple of Trek series, but saying the fans don't support Trek is BS. If fans don't support trek, why is there conventions all the time, why is there countless books, and why is there another movie coming out?

[psk453]

About the original post, I don't understand what they were thinking. Just a quick casual glance at these forums proves that there is tons of excitement for this game. And Cryptic is doing an awesome job of keeping us, the fans, in the loop. There couldn't have been a better team to put this game together and keep us fans involved.

Thank you Cryptic for giving us hope!!

[Loekii]

1. The problem with Trek games is that they have mostly been crap. But, they still have their loyal defenders, just a quick browse through these forums will prove that. Plus, there are tons of them, the problem with them being crap was that they went through way too many developers and had no sense of direction. That is why people have high hopes for this game. It has direction!

2. You say that fans don't want another series? Really, why is there a new movie coming out then? Yes, I have my problems with the last couple of Trek series, but saying the fans don't support Trek is BS. If fans don't support trek, why is there conventions all the time, why is there countless books, and why is there another movie coming out?


There is a big difference between forum posters and customers. There are not enough Trekkies buying video games to create a demand for Star Trek Video games. Even those that have been released did not top the charts in Sales. Looking at the Gamer market, Trekkies are not even on the radar. Groups on the radar are the GTA fan for example. The Market responds to demand. So where is this 'Star Trek' demand?


The new movie is being made because JJ. Abrams wanted to make a Star Trek movie. It probably would not have been made if he was not behind it. From what I understand, he is making a 'MOVIE GOER' Star Trek, not a "TREKKIE" Star Trek (one of the reason some Trekkies are not liking Abrams Star Trek). And Paramount had decided to not make another Star Trek series -- meaning the 'Trekkies' were not supportive enough of the existing series to warrent a new series, nor where they considered Market factor. There are how many CSI's Shows now? That is an example of fan power.

[psk453]

The demand has always been there, its just that there was nothing worth buying.

Paramount approached Abrams, not the other way around.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all

And I am glad Abrams made this movie, I think it is exactly what Trek needed. I know too many people that stopped watching Trek after TNG stopped and never came back and have been waiting for something like this movie (and game) for years. That is why it is getting so much good press from Trekkers, former Trekkers and non-Trekkers alike.

That is precisely what this game is about too. Its about a new direction for Trek, something that needed to happen a long time ago (sorry Rick Berman fans).

[OddjobXL]

Here we have a post chalk full of rhetoric that simply doesn't stand up under the hard light of reality.

Roleplayers don't stay in a game any longer than any other specific group of people. They're not "special" in that respect, nor in any other respect. They're just players of these games like everyone else, and will stay playing as long as they find the game and the people thay're playing along side fun and interesting, just like anyone else.

That's not reality. That's Hagonality. Look at the numbers for games with strong settings. LoTRO and SWG and Age of Conan. Which servers are the most populated? AoC's going to skew PvP because it was designed primarily as a PvP game but of the PvE servers Wicanna is the most populated and it is the Unofficial RP server. Starsider is the single biggest server on SWG and it is also the Unofficial RP server. Landroval is LoTRO's Unofficial RP server and it's either first or second most populated server. Are these all coincidences? I don't think so.

Cryptic themselves knows full well the virtue of Virtue as it's one of the most populated, if not THE most populated, server in City of Heroes and it, as well, was the Unofficial RP server.

So here's yet another case of someone kidding themselves and once again it's not me.

As for the IP specific fans, well it's been shown they do more harm than good in a number of games, as well as never making up any substantial number of the player base. Catering to IP specific fans is what made SWG a failure out of the gate ( for example, creating a Star Wars game and make playing a Jedi almost impossible... that was a smart move alright :rolleyes: ).

As I understand it it was Lucas Arts who had final say in how the Jedi were implemented not SOE. Nevertheless, you're totally wrong about who the game was designed to appeal to. It was designed to appeal to Koster's fellow game designers with its cool but untested design ideas and, out of desperation, to the big PvP guilds it rose and fell with.

Star Wars fans actually wanted to play Jedi. They wanted Jedi to feel like Jedi, with light or dark mattering, and they wanted a vast Evil Empire to rebel against. They wanted to be a smuggler with blockades to run and, well, things to smuggle. Unfortunately we got hairdressers instead of heroes and l33t slinging PvP gangbangers instead of Rebels or Imperials. We had terminal missions that spawned little bundles of mobs instead of involved missions that evoked the Rebellion Era setting. We didn't even see space at all for a few years. The game was great for budding Grizzly Adams and wannabe prospectors, the animal AI and the wilderness mechanics were pretty cool, but there wasn't an iota of Star Wars in the game aside from some of the graphics and the music.

In the end it is as it always is with these games. Fun content and well designed mechanics is what keeps players in a game, from all play style preferences, and probably most importantly having an atmosphere where players build loyalties to their friends.

More important is building loyalty to the game itself. Friends can form nomadic tribes that travel between games. Friends who are attached to something about a particular game will stick around. Gameplay definitely has to be central to that but why **** away the one, unique, marketing angle the game will have - The Brand Name? One which presumably will sell the game to folks in the first place. Why else would anyone bother to use it? So use it and use it well. Create your wonderful gameplay in a way that evokes the experience most people are picking up the box, based on their personal knowledge of the licensed property, to enjoy.

If anything fans and roleplayers are caustic to these games.

They usually work to constrain them to the point of driving away the general gamer, and when they're specific desires aren't met they have shown over and over that they are absolutely the most vile and vindictive types. We see it on display here in this very thread, and have been seeing it since the day this forum went up.

Oh, Hagon, Hagon, Hagon. You haven't exactly gone out of your way to be charming either now have you? Be honest. We're all friends here. People want what they want and some (I'm not naming names but I hardly have to) will just scream and accuse and sneer rather than calmly sitting down at the table to address the facts. Sure, I've been a touch abrasive myself but I'm not a milquetoast. I'll give as good as I get in any discussion. If you want to see civil discourse then set an example.

[psk453]

Amen.

People want to be entertained in new and exciting ways, and this is one game that can do it. I think Trek has always been a vehicle to entertain people, but it went stale for awhile (again sorry Berman fans) and now there is a two pronged approach to make Trek relevent and entertaining again.

[Fernos]

As for the IP specific fans, well it's been shown they do more harm than good in a number of games, as well as never making up any substantial number of the player base. Catering to IP specific fans is what made SWG a failure out of the gate ( for example, creating a Star Wars game and make playing a Jedi almost impossible... that was a smart move alright :rolleyes: ).




A Number of games?...Okay Name five.

You know Hagon, no matter how many times you Chant this malarkey it's not going to make it so, OddjobXL is right SWG was designed for everyone except for SW fans, even Koester said we can't make the game just for the fans we have to make the game for players of MMO's IE The UO and EQ crowd, so if anything not going for the right demographic (The Star Wars Fans) is why the game failed miserably.

[KO_Gilligan]

Oh, Hagon, Hagon, Hagon. You haven't exactly gone out of your way to be charming either now have you? Be honest. We're all friends here. People want what they want and some (I'm not naming names but I hardly have to) will just scream and accuse and sneer rather than calmly sitting down at the table to address the facts. Sure, I've been a touch abrasive myself but I'm not a milquetoast. I'll give as good as I get in any discussion. If you want to see civil discourse then set an example.



I think you spam large amounts of moot empirical evidence about RP gamers. I think you are accusing Cryptic of defiling the franchise, and look for missing RPG elements as a fail like everyone is a Jedi.

I've run some pretty significant ship's RPG maps online for Star Trek right here on this computer. Good ones. How's that for empirical evidence for knowing what Star Trek fans want?

I'm getting tired of foot stomping agendas, it's out of line. Nobody here can force what is fun down anyone elses throat. Crytptic is building an elaborate, costly, game with complicated episodic playstyles RPG missions and areas to explore... all in this quest for fun.

So go ahead, like you said : pull up a chair and sit at the table regarding what good Star Trek Role Play should be, but if you want to bring some kind of case studies of other games into this, we can talk about actual Star Trek RPG... heck I'm even an officer on some defunct email powered ship. I've been at this table before. You might be disappointed with how realistic Hagon is actually being regarding the reception of this product, and the reality of how it is trying to be above and beyond in it's roleplay elements.

[Silverspar]

A Number of games?...Okay Name five.

You know Hagon, no matter how many times you Chant this malarkey it's not going to make it so, OddjobXL is right SWG was designed for everyone except for SW fans, even Koester said we can't make the game just for the fans we have to make the game for players of MMO's IE The UO and EQ crowd, so if anything not going for the right demographic (The Star Wars Fans) is why the game failed miserably.

SWG failed because they made big sweeping changes that uprooted the foundation of that game honestly. But yea, making the game for the few fans that might into Star Trek is just silly. You don't do things ot make them so narrow, you actually try to make your game as broad and entertaining to as many as you can, not as few as you can.

[Hagon]

That's not reality. That's Hagonality. Look at the numbers for games with strong settings. LoTRO and SWG and Age of Conan. Which servers are the most populated? AoC's going to skew PvP because it was designed primarily as a PvP game but of the PvE servers Wicanna is the most populated and it is the Unofficial RP server. Starsider is the single biggest server on SWG and it is also the Unofficial RP server. Landroval is LoTRO's Unofficial RP server and it's either first or second most populated server. Are these all coincidences? I don't think so.

Cryptic themselves knows full well the virtue of Virtue as it's one of the most populated, if not THE most populated, server in City of Heroes and it, as well, was the Unofficial RP server.

So here's yet another case of someone kidding themselves and once again it's not me.Ya, take one of the more populated servers and the RPers designate it as an "unofficial rp server" and that's supposed to mean something? Are you serious? It means nothing.

How about we look at some other games where the "unofficial RP server" has been tried before release and dismally failed? Like PotBS for instance (a game that was promoted as being a RPer's heaven by the way). The "unofficial RP server" was designated by RPers before launch, and promoted by them heavily on the forums, yet come release it was the lowest populated one. In fact it was avoided like the plague for the most part. I know. I was on it. We were the first to get merged. Such is the case with every other game that I can think of where the "unofficial RP server" has been tried before launch.

Then you have some games that try the "official" route. Some of the servers designated have healthy populations, but when you go on them you see hardly anyone is RPing. Just a small handful, and most everyone else will tell you they rolled that server because they figured the RP tag would keep kids away. By the way, I played CoV on the "unofficial RP server as well, and only encountered three people that were RPing in all the months I was in the game. That will be the case if anyone here cares to do the free trials and roll on LOTRO's, or AOC's, "unofficial RP servers" too. Or WAR's official ones.

In fact they should, because these things I'm saying are actually provable, you know as opposed to just throwing something out there wishing it were actually true but knowing that it really isn't but it sounds good. People should see for themselves and not just take my word for it.



As I understand it it was Lucas Arts who had final say in how the Jedi were implemented not SOE. Nevertheless, you're totally wrong about who the game was designed to appeal to. It was designed to appeal to Koster's fellow game designers with its cool but untested design ideas and, out of desperation, to the big PvP guilds it rose and fell with.

Star Wars fans actually wanted to play Jedi. They wanted Jedi to feel like Jedi, with light or dark mattering, and they wanted a vast Evil Empire to rebel against. They wanted to be a smuggler with blockades to run and, well, things to smuggle. Unfortunately we got hairdressers instead of heroes and l33t slinging PvP gangbangers instead of Rebels or Imperials. We had terminal missions that spawned little bundles of mobs instead of involved missions that evoked the Rebellion Era setting. We didn't even see space at all for a few years. The game was great for budding Grizzly Adams and wannabe prospectors, the animal AI and the wilderness mechanics were pretty cool, but there wasn't an iota of Star Wars in the game aside from some of the graphics and the music.Yes, so the months and months of whining and complaining about the changes made making the game not suit the time frame were just figments of everyone's imagination.

That single issue alone was THE most controversial issue that went on back then, and the "IP fans" quit in droves over just that. To this day it is the single most common "complaint" heard about the changes made to SWG from that particular crowd. If you were actually there at the time you know that. The IP fans went nuts because of it. Never mind that not having them easily playable at release was one of the big reasons the game failed out of the gate. These people didn't care at all about that. All they cared about was having their desires catered to because they felt a sense of entitlement above others. (sound familiar folks? ;) )



Oh, Hagon, Hagon, Hagon. You haven't exactly gone out of your way to be charming either now have you? Be honest. We're all friends here. People want what they want and some (I'm not naming names but I hardly have to) will just scream and accuse and sneer rather than calmly sitting down at the table to address the facts. Sure, I've been a touch abrasive myself but I'm not a milquetoast. I'll give as good as I get in any discussion. If you want to see civil discourse then set an example.As a great many here can attest to, I'll sit and discuss and debate with people cordially till the cows come home, and if someone makes a valid counter point to mine, I'll acknowledge that openly and respect them the more for it.

If people want to engage in dishonest debate, or take someone disagreeing with them and offering up an alternative opinion personally and launch into personal attacks (no matter how backhanded and to them, cleverly worded, those personal attacks are), they get no such niceties from me. If they're trying to drum up negativity because of some agenda, or taking part in underhanded campaigns to blow certain things out of proportion, they don't get them either.

[OddjobXL]

I think you spam large amounts of moot empirical evidence about RP gamers. I think you are accusing Cryptic of defiling the franchise, and look for missing RPG elements as a fail like everyone is a Jedi.

Frankly, I haven't seen any reason to believe Cryptic is defiling anything. You must have me confused with someone else. What I see so far is highly encouraging. Customized crews, NPC crews, procedurally generated worlds/missions, interiors (eventually) and even IPvP in the neutral zone could be very good for RP and RPers.

I just have concerns, yes, but they mainly have to do with forum pressure groups of the sort I saw wreak havok with other games. I'm capable of expressing another point of view and so I'm doing just that.

[OddjobXL]

See Below Post.

[OddjobXL]

Ya, take one of the more populated servers and the RPers designate it as an "unofficial rp server" and that's supposed to mean something? Are you serious? It means nothing.

Actually all Unofficial RP Servers are picked before the game goes live. That's kinda the idea. It's where we go.

]How about we look at some other games where the "unofficial RP server" has been tried before release and dismally failed? Like PotBS for instance (a game that was promoted as being a RPer's heaven by the way). The "unofficial RP server" was designated by RPers before launch, and promoted by them heavily on the forums, yet come release it was the lowest populated one. In fact it was avoided like the plague for the most part. I know. I was on it. We were the first to get merged. Such is the case with every other game that I can think of where the "unofficial RP server" has been tried before launch.

You were on Bonny, Hagon? I knew you sounded familiar. Bearnekkid is it? The Plague Upon Roleplayers Incarnate. You really loved causing trouble over there. I was there too and I still use the same name in the forums here. Don't have a past to hide from.

Bonny's problem is that all PoTBS servers were pure PvP. There was no way around it. RP does require some breathing room to do other things with your time. The Spanish were so crushed by the Brits and the Pirates that we spent all our time fighting fires IG. Had no time to do our thing and we burned out.

Eve Online's at least got high sec so when folks need some time out they can take it and still do something in the game. PoTBS was burnout city.

Then you have some games that try the "official" route. Some of the servers designated have healthy populations, but when you go on them you see hardly anyone is RPing. Just a small handful, and most everyone else will tell you they rolled that server because they figured the RP tag would keep kids away. By the way, I played CoV on the "unofficial RP server as well, and only encountered three people that were RPing in all the months I was in the game. That will be the case if anyone here cares to do the free trials and roll on LOTRO's, or AOC's, "unofficial RP servers" too. Or WAR's official ones.

In fact they should, because these things I'm saying are actually provable, you know as opposed to just throwing something out there wishing it were actually true but knowing that it really isn't but it sounds good. People should see for themselves and not just take my word for it.

Well, I didn't spend too much time on Virtue but it wasn't hard to find the roleplayers. They had hangouts and did alot of RP in Supergroup bases (once they were in) and in that new club they put in the game. The club was put in for nothing but RPers to socialize and that they do. There wasn't much RP going on randomly on the street but CoH/CoV tended to be very fast paced with folks racing around from mission to mission. The RP I saw was all in private settings, in a handful of hangouts or at the dance club.

I actually agree that Official RP servers tend to suck. Unofficial ones have historically done much better for reasons I've discussed elsewhere.

Yes, so the months and months of whining and complaining about the changes made making the game not suit the time frame were just figments of everyone's imagination.

That single issue alone was THE most controversial issue that went on back then, and the "IP fans" quit in droves over just that. To this day it is the single most common "complaint" heard about the changes made to SWG from that particular crowd. If you were actually there at the time you know that. The IP fans went nuts because of it. Never mind that not having them easily playable at release was one of the big reasons the game failed out of the gate. These people didn't care at all about that. All they cared about was having their desires catered to because they felt a sense of entitlement above others. (sound familiar folks? ;) )

There were a lot of complaints but there were as many in favor of Jedi as there were those against it. Frankly, given open/public PvP (meaning we'd have to see players running around in Jedi drag and fighting each other) I was against player Jedi myself. I knew the tea-bagging that would ensue and drag the setting down with it. However, in a pure PvE game it would be less disruptive as players could imagine they were among the few Jedi who survived the purge rather than being one among thousands out streetfighting with lightsabers instead of switchblades and gats.

As a great many here can attest to, I'll sit and discuss and debate with people cordially till the cows come home, and if someone makes a valid counter point to mine, I'll acknowledge that openly and respect them the more for it.

If people want to engage in dishonest debate, or take someone disagreeing with them and offering up an alternative opinion personally and launch into personal attacks (no matter how backhanded and to them, cleverly worded, those personal attacks are), they get no such niceties from me. If they're trying to drum up negativity because of some agenda, or taking part in underhanded campaigns to blow certain things out of proportion, they don't get them either.

Oh, if you are Bearnekidd from PoTBS's Bonny then I know you all too well. And I know better than that.

[Hagon]

A Number of games?...Okay Name five.

You know Hagon, no matter how many times you Chant this malarkey it's not going to make it so, OddjobXL is right SWG was designed for everyone except for SW fans, even Koester said we can't make the game just for the fans we have to make the game for players of MMO's IE The UO and EQ crowd, so if anything not going for the right demographic (The Star Wars Fans) is why the game failed miserably.SWG, MXO, WAR, AoC are all examples of games that figured that catering to the IP fans would be enough and they could get away with releasing the games either unfinished (in terms of content), or with sub par game play mechanics and such.

SWG is the epitome of this.

They released game catered mostly toward SW fans and RPers. The game tanked big time immediately. 600 to 800kpeople that bought the game never bothered to pay for the first payed month, and it was losing 10k players a month at the time SOE started working on changing the game. The main reason given for losing interest in that game back then? Not being able to play a jedi without jumping through all the hoops that they would have had to, that there were too many convoluted and useless classes seemingly just created to be there and for people that wanted to "live" in Star Wars instead of playing a game, and nothing much for anyone to do that wasn't just there to just "live" in Star Wars besides grind till their eyes bled.

[Hagon]

Oh, if you are Bearnekidd from PoTBS's Bonny then I know you all too well. And I know better than that.Not sure who you're talking about. I was a member of The Sovereign Cooperative though (which was mostly RPers), if that rings a bell.

[KO_Gilligan]

Frankly, I haven't seen any reason to believe Cryptic is defiling anything. You must have me confused with someone else. What I see so far is highly encouraging. Customized crews, NPC crews, procedurally generated worlds/missions, interiors (eventually) and even IPvP in the neutral zone could be very good for RP and RPers.

Well then forgive me for asking what this particular bit of rhetoric is reffering to.

Gameplay definitely has to be central to that but why **** away the one, unique, marketing angle the game will have - The Brand Name? One which presumably will sell the game to folks in the first place. Why else would anyone bother to use it? So use it and use it well. Create your wonderful gameplay in a way that evokes the experience most people are picking up the box, based on their personal knowledge of the licensed property, to enjoy.

Because, I'm gonna be honest... I have a rich history with this particular franchise, and a number of confrontations with those proclaiming the sanctity of the franchise.

Forgive me for noticing which bandwagon you just jumped on :rolleyes:

[OddjobXL]

I'd say I'm just stating the obvious.

Would I sell a product called Coke and put 7-Up in the bottle?

[OddjobXL]

Not sure who you're talking about. I was a member of The Sovereign Cooperative though (which was mostly RPers), if that rings a bell.

Okay, if you were on Bonny and participated in the forums you have to know who Bearnekidd is. We still don't know his real identity but we do know he was British faction (and probably in the SC). That was just his forum handle and he didn't use it in the game but the guy's a running joke, of the roll-eyes variety, with everyone. Your style is a match for his.

[darkangel32]

welll im pretty excited about the game, ive been waiting for a good star trek game and specifically an mmo to come out for years. my only problem is im not 100 percent certain the right company is gonna pull it off correctly. im not gonna bash cryptic cause i think they are a great company but i worry they push their games out too early without proper testing and then have to go back and severely nerf everthing like they did with city of heroes. champions was done in what a year, maybe a little more, this game is gonna be the same way when most companies spend 5 to 6 years on a mmo, either they really know what they are doing or its not gonna be finished, hope im wrong.

second thing im worried about is the vegas announcement, specifically jack saying wow was a great game because you could play it on any computer and it was so easy. that leads me to think this game will be wow in space to get the subs in, and i dont want wow in space, i want star trek. so i am excited, but its tempered now till i find out more, im not gonna say i think this is gonna be the best game in the world, because right now i cant say i believe that, i just hope it will be fun and can keep people interested in it for the long term.

[Loekii]

The demand has always been there, its just that there was nothing worth buying.

Paramount approached Abrams, not the other way around.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all

And I am glad Abrams made this movie, I think it is exactly what Trek needed. I know too many people that stopped watching Trek after TNG stopped and never came back and have been waiting for something like this movie (and game) for years. That is why it is getting so much good press from Trekkers, former Trekkers and non-Trekkers alike.

That is precisely what this game is about too. Its about a new direction for Trek, something that needed to happen a long time ago (sorry Rick Berman fans).

I think you are not understanding what I am saying.

By not buying anything (because it was junk, they didn't like it, etc), Trekkies have defined themselves as a fickle market, not likely to spend their money. That makes them an unattractive market.

Again, Abrams is making an action adventure film, that happens to be Star Trek based. He is targeting the average movie goer -- the ones that go see Iron Man, Terminator, Spiderman, Transformers, etc.
He is not targeting the Trekkies. Additionally, Paramount has shelved the license. They are not making another Star Trek series. The Trekkies are not a lucrative enough group to warrant costs and production.

So as a group, despite numbers and/or wealth, Trekkies are not a lucrative market.

However, MMORPGer are. And that is where the money is -- and where marketing should focus their attention (especially because this is not a novel or a tv series, but an MMORPG).

[Loekii]

I just have concerns, yes, but they mainly have to do with forum pressure groups of the sort I saw wreak havok with other games. I'm capable of expressing another point of view and so I'm doing just that.

I would not be so quick to blame the Forums.

Often times it is not the 'forum groups', but rather the in-game feedback that motivates change.

Sometimes that mirrors the forums, sometimes it seems to come out of left field.

There are a great many Lurker, and non-forum types, that submit feedback via non-public, non-forum based methods.

[Hagon]

Okay, if you were on Bonny and participated in the forums you have to know who Bearnekidd is. We still don't know his real identity but we do know he was British faction (and probably in the SC). That was just his forum handle and he didn't use it in the game but the guy's a running joke, of the roll-eyes variety, with everyone. Your style is a match for his.I really didn't participate in the forms much in PotBS, I think I made 4 or 5 posts during my time playing the game. I'd say that your need to insult the good members of SC by insinuating that they were a bad element by some association, or whatever you're doing, is pretty low though. SC was a great bunch of people, with some of the most dedicated RPers on the server among the ranks, and we treated most everyone with a great deal of respect, even when some on our side began actually working against our efforts to win the map. It's just even the constant RPers knew that pushing RP on people was a bad idea, and that that play style was a small niche. A very valid play style and entirely ok in my book, but no more or less important than any other really, and only done by a handful in comparison to the rest of the populations in every one of these games.

[KO_Gilligan]

second thing im worried about is the vegas announcement, specifically jack saying wow was a great game because you could play it on any computer and it was so easy. that leads me to think this game will be wow in space to get the subs in, and i dont want wow in space, i want star trek. so i am excited, but its tempered now till i find out more, im not gonna say i think this is gonna be the best game in the world, because right now i cant say i believe that, i just hope it will be fun and can keep people interested in it for the long term.

I wouldn't expect wow in space. Jack is a developer. Take it as a nod to DX9 capability and the fact that it's a response for all those people who are worried about AoC level of PC requirements.

They really aren't allowed to say much, but keep in mind that some things in WoW were done right, some things in CoH were done right. So they should acknowledge those things. It doesn't make it WoW in space. In fact we can see already that it won't be.

Also AoC requirements are quickly becoming mainstream. From the screenshots, it's looking really nice. So I don't put much faith in this game running on any old computer.

[entrailsgalore]

lol the star wars mmo looks like WoW in Space



No it looks like the Hero engine in space. WoW uses a completely different engine based on DX7 technology.


Besides, what do you expect when you have a room full of nerds who think they know how the star trek franchise should go? Everyone thinks they are smarter than everyone else and knows better. As long as I can land on ground, kill some things, launch into space, kill some things, make out with some aliens, I'll be happy.

[Hagon]

No it looks like the Hero engine in space. WoW uses a completely different engine based on DX7 technology.


Besides, what do you expect when you have a room full of nerds who think they know how the star trek franchise should go? Everyone thinks they are smarter than everyone else and knows better. As long as I can land on ground, kill some things, launch into space, kill some things, make out with some aliens, I'll be happy.You have hit the nail on the head mate. :D:cool:

[thefreshjedi]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]...As a great many here can attest to, I'll sit and discuss and debate with people cordially till the cows come home, and if someone makes a valid counter point to mine, I'll acknowledge that openly and respect them the more for it...


I can attest to that. Hagon has always been fair and impartial. He has a good heart, and listens, but isn't afraid to speak up if you're just talking nonsense. I know I haven't agreed with him in the past, but that doesn't mean that I haven't agreed to disagree, and it's nice to have a different point of view. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong, but he's always fair.


-avery

[CaptainHoliday]

I think we can all accept that STO has not created any waves of being a revolutionary or goundbreaking MMORPG, or even a MMORPG that can compete with WOW or be a WOW killer.

Nobody is expecting STO to be a huge success or be an amazing game.

The expectations are that it will be a competent MMORPG and be a moderate success on the level of LOTRonline.

I always felt it had the potential to be more.

It's lifespan will depend on whether expected features are added in expansions.

[OddjobXL]

I really didn't participate in the forms much in PotBS, I think I made 4 or 5 posts during my time playing the game. I'd say that your need to insult the good members of SC by insinuating that they were a bad element by some association, or whatever you're doing, is pretty low though. SC was a great bunch of people, with some of the most dedicated RPers on the server among the ranks, and we treated most everyone with a great deal of respect, even when some on our side began actually working against our efforts to win the map. It's just even the constant RPers knew that pushing RP on people was a bad idea, and that that play style was a small niche. A very valid play style and entirely ok in my book, but no more or less important than any other really, and only done by a handful in comparison to the rest of the populations in every one of these games.

The SC seemed like a decent bunch and I know the Brits had some issues with some folks trying to take over the faction who were RPers and wanted formal IC meetings and so on. That's not why I had to bring up Bearnekkid. It's your way of exaggerating your points and denigrating others. With Bearne he had folks fooled for a while but eventually blew his top and then the PM's saying "Wow, you were right about that guy" came pouring in.

I only say he was probably SC because that's what most folks thought not because SC were problem children or anything. Bearne was the problem and like I said we still don't know, aside from his being British faction, who he was or which guild he belonged to. Ask your friends in SC, assuming you still keep in touch, about Bearnkidd if that's not actually you. They'll know. Everyone knew.

But now we're wandering quite far afield. RPers are a minority, sure, but they are a big one in some games and even bigger than PvPers in several. SWG is obvious but I suspect that's true in both CoH and LoTRO as well. They're also more loyal to particular games and communities beyond just their own guilds and, whether you fancy the data or not, it's out there.

[KO_Gilligan]

I think we can all accept that STO has not created any waves of being a revolutionary or goundbreaking MMORPG, or even a MMORPG that can compete with WOW or be a WOW killer.

Nobody is expecting STO to be a huge success or be an amazing game.

The expectations are that it will be a competent MMORPG and be a moderate success on the level of LOTRonline.

I always felt it had the potential to be more.

It's lifespan will depend on whether expected features are added in expansions.

I'm actually betting on an amazing game. But for different reasons. It will be amazing because we are amazing. For every one of our colorful comments, there are 10 more people who have valid opinions, yet they refrain. This is not the typical MMO crowd. We have yet to see, but I predict this zaney Sci-Fi loving crowd will be a lot of fun as a social group. Is a fun social group enough? Maybe not... we need eye candy, and addictive gameplay too. But I think we exceed the fantasy game crowd.

[Fernos]

SWG, MXO, WAR, AoC are all examples of games that figured that catering to the IP fans would be enough and they could get away with releasing the games either unfinished (in terms of content), or with sub par game play mechanics and such.



Well I'm not much of a matrix fan but as a Hardcore Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan fan I can tell you first hand that none of those franchises even came close to delivering anything close to a fan centric experience, they all played fast and loose with lore and ended up giving us a shell of what the original IP was about In short the fans saw that it was crap and either didn't bite or gave them the finger shortly after the 30 days were up.

SWG is the epitome of this.

They released game catered mostly toward SW fans and RPers. The game tanked big time immediately. 600 to 800kpeople that bought the game never bothered to pay for the first payed month, and it was losing 10k players a month at the time SOE started working on changing the game. The main reason given for losing interest in that game back then? Not being able to play a jedi without jumping through all the hoops that they would have had to, that there were too many convoluted and useless classes seemingly just created to be there and for people that wanted to "live" in Star Wars instead of playing a game, and nothing much for anyone to do that wasn't just there to just "live" in Star Wars besides grind till their eyes bled.



Dude no they did not...The Star Wars fans did not want Jedi as a playable race we knew that during that time period there was Palpatine Vader Yoda and Luke , yes many force sensitive but no actual Jedi,(The Folks from the Pen and Paper game devloper West End Games got this right and SOE/Lucas were fools not to adapt it.) and SW had nothing to Offer Rpers at launch it was one long boring pointless sandbox......that was a homage to Ultima Online not RPing or Star Wars. You want to put fans of Star Trek and Role Players in the worst possible light because you desperately want your old School Raid game...I hate to tell you but all the spin in the world isn't going to make that happen.

[Fernos]

SWG failed because they made big sweeping changes that uprooted the foundation of that game honestly. But yea, making the game for the few fans that might into Star Trek is just silly. You don't do things ot make them so narrow, you actually try to make your game as broad and entertaining to as many as you can, not as few as you can.

NO SWG failed at Inception for the reasons I mentioned above period.

[Deinbeck]

lol the star wars mmo looks like WoW in Space

when it comes closer to the release people might start going sto nuts.


This is was frightens me. Every game copies that horrible (yet unfortunately profitable) game now. If I play this, and find another WoW carbon copy, I'll drop it ASAP.

These guys should be trying to appeal to a specific niche. I'd imagine the typical person who would be interested in this would be looking for a grand, complicated, open-ended experience opposed to a simplified busy work affair like WoW.

I don't know if this type of grand open-ended game can be made any more with the games industry in the state it's in. The fact is, you just can't get published if you aren't doing what the other guys are. New ideas aren't seen as being profitable, so every company has to copy whatever is making money to stay in business.

This is especially true for MMO's, as they cost a massive amount of money to produce, and to maintain.

[DracoPalin]

ok I have one more little thing to say as this tread has changed topics,

The ST IP is being used to apeal to trekkies,that is the hole damn point
of useing the ST name.not to mention Cryiptics own assurance that
they are all trek fans.

To state that ANY other group SHOULD be its larger target base is
simply Biased BS.

ST fans are fiercely loyal,and any game that is not true to that universe
will quickly fall by the wayside.I would have to blame the game makers
up to this point,for the percieved lack of suport for ST games. Makeing
a combat game,or a shoddy simulator and slapping the Trek name on it
will not work.

Trekkies are not stupid and we wont swollow just any trype you hand us.
that in turn is also why there has been no drive for a new seiries,you may
have liked them but you must admit the latest ST seiries just deviaated from
the basics of Trek too much and fans lost faith.

Gamers(of which I am one.) are a great group and a large consumer base.
But the point of useing ANY IP is to apeal to that IPs fanbase,otherwise they
would just create there own IP instead of paying for the right to use someone else's.

A game like STO needs to be made FIRST for the trekkies and THEN for the gamers.

Yes the gamer sub-group is a larger base but if you do a game of this scale properly
(as it apears Cryptic is doing.) you will be greatly surprised at the Trekkie response.

STO=FtW

[Hagon]

Well I'm not much of a matrix fan but as a Hardcore Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan fan I can tell you first hand that none of those franchises even came close to delivering anything close to a fan centric experience, they all played fast and loose with lore and ended up giving us a shell of what the original IP was about In short the fans saw that it was crap and either didn't bite or gave them the finger shortly after the 30 days were up.




Dude no they did not...The Star Wars fans did not want Jedi as a playable race we knew that during that time period there was Palpatine Vader Yoda and Luke , yes many force sensitive but no actual Jedi,(The Folks from the Pen and Paper game devloper West End Games got this right and SOE/Lucas were fools not to adapt it.) and SW had nothing to Offer Rpers at launch it was one long boring pointless sandbox......that was a homage to Ultima Online not RPing or Star Wars. You want to put fans of Star Trek and Role Players in the worst possible light because you desperately want your old School Raid game...I hate to tell you but all the spin in the world isn't going to make that happen.Again, you have no idea what I want. This isn't the first time you've made these false and wild assumptions about me. Please stop it. It's really getting old.

As for the release of Star Wars, that the IP fans didn't want Jedi is exactly what I'm talking about. It's absolutely silly to have a Star Wars game and not have Jedi be easily playable. Totally harmful to a Star Wars game, yet there we had "Star Wars fans" perfectly happy to harm the game just to see it how they wanted to see it.

I've played all of the games mentioned, and have been a deep fan of R.E. Howard (and De Camp and Lin Carter too) since I was a lad. I also was a fan of the Warhammer fantasy novels and such. AoC and WAR are virtually dripping with accurate Conan and Warhammer lore, settings , and characters. The problem was that's about all they had at release. In AoC the game play was sub par, and there was a severe lack of content. In Warhammer there was also a lack of content . Both those games were banking that the IP fans and RPers that would be happy basically just inhabiting the games would be enough to make the games initial successes, with the players willing to wait till the games were sorted out. It wasn't enough. Not even close.

[Hagon]

ok I have one more little thing to say as this tread has changed topics,

The ST IP is being used to apeal to trekkies,that is the hole damn point
of useing the ST name.not to mention Cryiptics own assurance that
they are all trek fans.

To state that ANY other group SHOULD be its larger target base is
simply Biased BS.

ST fans are fiercely loyal,and any game that is not true to that universe
will quickly fall by the wayside.I would have to blame the game makers
up to this point,for the percieved lack of suport for ST games. Makeing
a combat game,or a shoddy simulator and slapping the Trek name on it
will not work.

Trekkies are not stupid and we wont swollow just any trype you hand us.
that in turn is also why there has been no drive for a new seiries,you may
have liked them but you must admit the latest ST seiries just deviaated from
the basics of Trek too much and fans lost faith.

Gamers(of which I am one.) are a great group and a large consumer base.
But the point of useing ANY IP is to apeal to that IPs fanbase,otherwise they
would just create there own IP instead of paying for the right to use someone else's.

A game like STO needs to be made FIRST for the trekkies and THEN for the gamers.

Yes the gamer sub-group is a larger base but if you do a game of this scale properly
(as it apears Cryptic is doing.) you will be greatly surprised at the Trekkie response.

STO=FtWStar Trek fans, of the sort you're talking about, will not be enough to carry this game. First it would take enough trekkies to be mmo gamers, which there isn't. So after that it would take enough trekkies getting interested n mmo gaming, which it won't. It will take this game appealing to people that are aware of the Star Trek IP, but mmo gamers first and foremost, to carry this game. Just like every other game in the genre.

[SirReginaldo]

yah I was just trial playing war hammer. Even now it is okay, but kinda boring. I dont feel like I am there at all and frankly there were not enough players around:( Oh well, tis the life a ork Shaman who goes around with Da Big Wood (his staff and I am not kiding hehehehe):D

[SirReginaldo]

yah if I enjoy playing as a Klingon, they will have my coins;)

[DracoPalin]

Star Trek fans, of the sort you're talking about, will not be enough to carry this game. First it would take enough trekkies to be mmo gamers, which there isn't. So after that it would take enough trekkies getting interested n mmo gaming, which it won't. It will take this game appealing to people that are aware of the Star Trek IP, but mmo gamers first and foremost, to carry this game. Just like every other game in the genre.

Hey,would you please tell me where you got your crystal ball?
I want one.

"Isn't"?
"Won't"?

How in the HELL do you know?

you assume,and thats all.

Please refrain from shoveling that trype as fact.
thank you.

[doam]

Hey,would you please tell me where you got your crystal ball?
I want one.

"Isn't"?
"Won't"?

How in the HELL do you know?

you assume,and thats all.

Please refrain from shoveling that trype as fact.
thank you.

Well, sure. I make assumptions based in fact, too. For example, I assume that if I stick my tongue in the electrical socket, it'll hurt. A lot.

It's not neccasarily true. There is a world of endless possibilities. I could absorb the electricity and gain super powers. That is, however, incredibly unlikely.


The same can be said for trekkies supporting a trek MMO. Even *if* they tried to cater to trekkies, it'd still fail. Because everyone has their differant view. I've seen someone here saying that an intrepid class ship is equal in power to a galaxy. Pure rubbish. I wouldn't play a game where the intrepid was that powerful! That goes against canon! Or does the intrepid being weaker than the galaxy go against canon, thus him not playing because of that?


It would be an exercise in futility to try to please enough trekkies to support this MMO. Instead, stay as true as possible while making it as fun as possible and you'll garner the widest variety of people and that large group of people will be able to support this MMO.


It's common sense. A trekkie supported MMO is a pipe dream. Wishful thinking. The only way to come to such an unlikely conclusion is to ignore at least 5 differant logical *facts* about trekkies and computer games.

[Rivaris]

just wait till champions is out and the pr machine starts the focus on sto.

we will be getting 5 topics a day about were to sign up from beta from the influx of people that will be signing when they see this game is not giong to be trown in the trash bin again and finaly afther 8 years of waiting we will boldy go were no gamer has gone before.

and yeah not every trekkie wil play this game but thats there loss. you can wach every show every movie over and over play dress up go to conventions but it wont compare to playing the game online and making your own story with your own starship in my eyes.

[Hagon]

Hey,would you please tell me where you got your crystal ball?
I want one.

"Isn't"?
"Won't"?

How in the HELL do you know?

you assume,and thats all.

Please refrain from shoveling that trype as fact.
thank you.I'm sorry that someone pointing out some pretty obvious things upsets you so. I guess I understand. I guess everyone wants to think because they believe something it has to be true.

The thing is though, that's not how things work.

Examination of evidence and data is what determines if something is true or not. You can choose to believe what you like of course, despite nothing there to support that belief, but I choose to believe what all the evidence and data points to. That being that "fans" of any IP, in this case trekkies, and the extent of fan that you mean I think, can't carry a game in this genre.

I love Star Trek as much as anyone here. I've done so for over 35 years. Loving it as much as I do doesn't cloud my judgements though, nor delude me. I'll keep stating what I believe to be true as much as I like too, thank you very much.

[Evi1Genius]

I'm sorry that someone pointing out some pretty obvious things upsets you so. I guess I understand. I guess everyone wants to think because they believe something it has to be true.

The thing is though, that's not how things work.

Examination of evidence and data is what determines if something is true or not. You can choose to believe what you like of course, despite nothing there to support that belief, but I choose to believe what all the evidence and data points to. That being that "fans" of any IP, in this case trekkies, and the extent of fan that you mean I think, can't carry a game in this genre.

I love Star Trek as much as anyone here. I've done so for over 35 years. Loving it as much as I do doesn't cloud my judgements though, nor delude me. I'll keep stating what I believe to be true as much as I like too, thank you very much.


yep I have to agree on Hagon's point of view and the flop of starwars thing.

[OddjobXL]

Well, Hagon, I'm going to have more faith in the devs than you for now.

Many of us are big Star Trek fans, and a few I’d say are even proud to call themselves Trekkers.

Businesswise, there are very, very few IPs that fit the MMO genre better than Star Trek. It isn’t about a single story or narrative – it’s about a galactic community and how it interacts. Star Trek is a vast world teeming with interesting places and cool creatures. There’s mystery … and conflict. Historically, Trek hadn’t fared well in the video game world, so I think some people wrongly devalued the IP. In our minds, no game had really done justice to Star Trek.

If we take Jack Emmert at his word, which we've no reason not to do, STO is going to try to do justice to the license. I haven't seen much that makes me suspect otherwise. Alright, some of the art is a little spiced up and dodgy ("But the kids can dance to it!") but the gameplay sounds very promising and compatible with the IP. I suspect the developers are doing that because they're smart enough to know you don't **** off your base. Politics 101.

Heck, if that MMORPG blog isn't enough for you check out the MSNBC interview with Craig:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30268691#30268691

Doesn't sound like they don't care to me.

[mistermgd]

I am very excited about this gmae, the more i read the more i like. I wish they would give us some better timetables regarding how far along they are, what the end product will look like and some more concrete details about the starter ships and things like that but overall I am very pelased with how they are devleoping this game and will gladly wait patiently for the game to come out as long as I have a rough timeframe for release and a prgress tracker so I can better plan ahead for it.

[Hagon]

Well, Hagon, I'm going to have more faith in the devs than you for now.



If we take Jack Emmert at his word, which we've no reason not to do, STO is going to try to do justice to the license. I haven't seen much that makes me suspect otherwise. Alright, some of the art is a little spiced up and dodgy ("But the kids can dance to it!") but the gameplay sounds very promising and compatible with the IP. I suspect the developers are doing that because they're smart enough to know you don't **** off your base. Politics 101.

Heck, if that MMORPG blog isn't enough for you check out the MSNBC interview with Craig:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30268691#30268691

Doesn't sound like they don't care to me.What has this got to do with the discussion at hand?

Absolutely nothing is what.

No one here is talking about whether or not Cryptic cares for the IP.

In fact I've pointed out the fact that they do care about the IP to YOU on a number of occasions when you've been trashing Cryptic over at mmorpg.com and intimating that they're ruining the game, and that people shouldn't play it, because of no interiors and player crews.

That aside, again, we weren't talking about whether they'd do justice to the license.

[Fernos]

Again, you have no idea what I want. This isn't the first time you've made these false and wild assumptions about me. Please stop it. It's really getting old.

[QUOTE=Hagon;483367][COLOR="DarkOrange"]As for the release of Star Wars, that the IP fans didn't want Jedi is exactly what I'm talking about. It's absolutely silly to have a Star Wars game and not have Jedi be easily playable. Totally harmful to a Star Wars game, yet there we had "Star Wars fans" perfectly happy to harm the game just to see it how they wanted to see it.

Yes so harmful so they screwed up cannon the SW fans didn't bite it became yet another Grind fest and guess wha?t IT FAILED

I've played all of the games mentioned, and have been a deep fan of R.E. Howard (and De Camp and Lin Carter too) since I was a lad. I also was a fan of the Warhammer fantasy novels and such. AoC and WAR are virtually dripping with accurate Conan and Warhammer lore, settings , and characters. The problem was that's about all they had at release. In AoC the game play was sub par, and there was a severe lack of content. In Warhammer there was also a lack of content . Both those games were banking that the IP fans and RPers that would be happy basically just inhabiting the games would be enough to make the games initial successes, with the players willing to wait till the games were sorted out. It wasn't enough. Not even close.


Okay you lost all credibility when you listed De Camp and Lin Carter as viable Conan sources both of those hacks ravaged Howard’s original works, and reading Warhammer Novels does not clue you into what the TT game is about, and that is where the glaring inaccuracies lie. What you fail to see in your myopia is that not targeting the correct demographic is why these games fail, but heck Hagon you can justify anything.
:rolleyes:

[EaglePryde]

I'm not concerned in the least. Since the announcement, we haven't really pushed the PR\Marketing machine. You don't until closer to launch - don't want to saturate the market too early. You guys should know more than anyone - we just haven't release _that much_ information about the game. Right now is like the calm before the storm. : )

That being said - as the developer - I'd say that the excitement for this game has been tremendous since the announcement. Everyone I've talked to has heard about it and wants to know more. Press interest is the likes of which I've never seen. Every piece of information and screen we release (and I'll admit it's been small) gets picked up by the majority of the aggregate sites. We have to beat the press off with sticks. : )

Devs on the team are always coming to me and mentioning how their non-MMO and even non-gaming relatives have heard about STO and want to know more.

Don't worry - it's still a little early to see the game _everywhere_ - but trust me, you will.

Just be happy that you're here NOW, so you can have your sig say things like: "I was into the game well before all you n00bs got into it." : )

-Zn

Same thing was going through my head all the time. First thing i liked when i heared and read about STO is the fresh new ways you could play an MMO. It's way diffrent than other MMO's. I am a Star Trek Fan and waited ages for such a game to surface. Even non Treekies are exited. Friends of mine who never watched Star Trek just like the idea behind the game and possibilities.

STO is the first MMO where i can safely say that it has the potential to expand nearly limitless because it has a strong and big background and with every bit of information i read or see i get the feeling that it will be very very big :D

[OddjobXL]

What has this got to do with the discussion at hand?

Absolutely nothing is what.

No one here is talking about whether or not Cryptic cares for the IP.

In fact I've pointed out the fact that they do care about the IP to YOU on a number of occasions when you've been trashing Cryptic over at mmorpg.com and intimating that they're ruining the game, and that people shouldn't play it, because of no interiors and player crews.

That aside, again, we weren't talking about whether they'd do justice to the license.

You have to be Bearnekkid! This is so him. Anyone who's been reading what I've said over at MMORPG can tell I support STO because it does have some great ideas. Hell, read the link to my blog in this post. There are at least two posts about STO and both of them are positive. Sure, I think they should have multiplayer ships eventually and I do genuinely believe that's a core aspect of what the Star Trek experience is: the interaction of the crew of a ship as they go on adventures together. NPC crews may cover that to a goodly degree but nothing tops players as they interact whether in a dungeon instance like Moria or on the bridge of a Sovereign-class starship.

However, man, you've just dropped all pretense of reason or fairness by accusing me of attacking Cryptic or STO. That, my friend, is just a lie and one you should know better than to even attempt.

[KO_Gilligan]

You have to be Bearnekkid! This is so him. Anyone who's been reading what I've said over at MMORPG can tell I support STO because it does have some great ideas. Hell, read the link to my blog in this post. There are at least two posts about STO and both of them are positive. Sure, I think they should have multiplayer ships eventually and I do genuinely believe that's a core aspect of what the Star Trek experience is: the interaction of the crew of a ship as they go on adventures together. NPC crews may cover that to a goodly degree but nothing tops players as they interact whether in a dungeon instance like Moria or on the bridge of a Sovereign-class starship.

However, man, you've just dropped all pretense of reason or fairness by accusing me of attacking Cryptic or STO. That, my friend, is just a lie and one you should know better than to even attempt.

Don't make me come in here and qoute you :D

I'd say I'm just stating the obvious.

Would I sell a product called Coke and put 7-Up in the bottle?

Well since that was your answer to my question about this:

Gameplay definitely has to be central to that but why **** away the one, unique, marketing angle the game will have - The Brand Name? One which presumably will sell the game to folks in the first place. Why else would anyone bother to use it? So use it and use it well. Create your wonderful gameplay in a way that evokes the experience most people are picking up the box, based on their personal knowledge of the licensed property, to enjoy.

Seems obvious to me your rhetoric (which seems without bounds) could mean one of two things.

You're very proud of how Cryptic is handling this, and coming into this thread and proclaiming it.

or

We can reasonably assume you have a strong opinion about what needs to be done for a sacred franchise.

So before you get off on accusations of false pretenses, go ahead and prove Hagon wrong about your disposition and tell us you like how Cryptic is handling this, and in no way are you implying grave concern respectively.

(check definition of rhetoric)
Your opinions are circular rhetoric - we get it with the implicating questions.
Cryptic better do this right, because I'm worried what they are doing is like selling 7-up and calling it Coke, but I support them and believe they're doing the right thing.

Yup, we get it.

[OddjobXL]

Cryptic better do this right, because I'm worried what they are doing is like selling 7-up and calling it Coke, but I support them and believe they're doing the right thing.

Yup, we get it.

It's really not that complicated. From what we know, Cryptic seems to be on the right track. There's a great deal we don't know. I'm simply doing what I do: observing and commenting and offering the occasional informed caution (which may or may not be needed).

[ZeframCochrane]

I'M SOOOOO EXCITED FOR STO!!!!!!!!!!

CAN YOU SENSE IT?!?!?!?!

[Loekii]

Well I'm not much of a matrix fan but as a Hardcore Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan fan I can tell you first hand that none of those franchises even came close to delivering anything close to a fan centric experience, they all played fast and loose with lore and ended up giving us a shell of what the original IP was about In short the fans saw that it was crap and either didn't bite or gave them the finger shortly after the 30 days were up.

I agree in some ways. They certainly were not designed for the 'License' fan (especially Star Wars Galaxy).

Those that were following SWG in development and in beta constantly battled the Devs about the lack of 'Star Warsiness' and how just putting a 'Star Wars Skin' on a game does not make it Star Wars. The Cloning and Aliens in the Empire were two major examples of this separation.

As far as a gameplay and subscriptions, I believe WAR is doing quite nicely for itself. Last time I checked, it has a healthy subscription base for an MMO (not WoW numbers but more like Eve, LotRO, EQ2 numbers), so I would say WAR did things 'right' for the most part, but there are just some jaded gamers that are unhappy they didn't get exactly what they wanted. Overall, I think WAR is a good mix of good gameplay with a license feel (it feels like Warhammer). It has some issues, imo, but none the less it is a good MMO.

AoC seems like they put too many eggs in one basket, and didn't realize how fast gamers would burn through content.

And for the most part, the first 3 months of any MMO is still designed to be a quasi-beta. Their bugginess is not a sign of it being 'rushed out', but rather of its intentional state at release. There things that you just cannot get done in a beta process, and requires thousands of players to help balance/flesh out. So MMOs are by design launched 'buggy', with the intent that those bugs will be quickly fixed with the needed data from retail. The 'Holy Grail' of a bug-free MMO release, is just that, a fictional story.

[Hagon]

Yes so harmful so they screwed up cannon the SW fans didn't bite it became yet another Grind fest and guess wha?t IT FAILED Please explain how cannon was screwed up at release.




Okay you lost all credibility when you listed De Camp and Lin Carter as viable Conan sources both of those hacks ravaged Howard’s original works, and reading Warhammer Novels does not clue you into what the TT game is about, and that is where the glaring inaccuracies lie. What you fail to see in your myopia is that not targeting the correct demographic is why these games fail, but heck Hagon you can justify anything.
:rolleyes:hehe ya ok. The only two authors that didn't screw up REH's works after his death were hacks.... lol ok...., but regardless of that, that doesn't explain just what it was about AoC that "screwed up the canon", and it doesn't explain away the fact that the owners of the Warhammer IP wanted the game based on the fantasy series along with the TT games, AND had absolute final veto on ALL things related to the IP that went into the game.

Please explain just what about the TT games was inaccurate in Warhammer Online anyway?

Not wanting to get things personal, but I think your eagerness to jump into an argument has made you take positions that simply have no weight to them.

You have to be Bearnekkid! This is so him. Anyone who's been reading what I've said over at MMORPG can tell I support STO because it does have some great ideas. Hell, read the link to my blog in this post. There are at least two posts about STO and both of them are positive. Sure, I think they should have multiplayer ships eventually and I do genuinely believe that's a core aspect of what the Star Trek experience is: the interaction of the crew of a ship as they go on adventures together. NPC crews may cover that to a goodly degree but nothing tops players as they interact whether in a dungeon instance like Moria or on the bridge of a Sovereign-class starship.

However, man, you've just dropped all pretense of reason or fairness by accusing me of attacking Cryptic or STO. That, my friend, is just a lie and one you should know better than to even attempt.Look I don't know what you're on about, but why don't you show this forum some respect and put your personal issues aside, quit trying to launch into personal attacks (or whatever you're doing trying to say I'm someone else as if you have some vendetta), and stick to the issues at hand.

Handing backhand compliments to Cryptic as you support those trying to harm the game doesn't change that you've been right in there amongst those trying to rip the game down before it's released because Cryptic didn't cater to one specific play style.

Your posts, along with others there, are the perfect example of the caustic attitudes that do great harm to these games.

[Loekii]

yah I was just trial playing war hammer. Even now it is okay, but kinda boring. I dont feel like I am there at all and frankly there were not enough players around:( Oh well, tis the life a ork Shaman who goes around with Da Big Wood (his staff and I am not kiding hehehehe):D

This is the main reason I am interested in seeing STO go with a single server.

Far too often I have encountered this in MMOs (EQ, EQ2, WoW, WAR, etc). Low populations are a killing for MMOs.

[Loekii]

Please explain how cannon was screwed up at release. [/COLOR]



With regards to SWG:
Respawn Fiction - Cloning in ANH/TESBRoTJ era was Outlawed.
Aliens in the Empire -- The TESB Empire was Xenophobic, and did not have 'Rodian/Bothan/Twilek' Stormtroopers or Imperial officers.
Dancers and Band Members creating 'magic'
Non-Star Wars mobs
Complete lack of 'Star Wars - ANH/TESB/ROTJ' feel. The game was Koster Wars with a Star Wars skin.
Player Jedi -- in the timelime there was only 3 jedi - most in hiding, not running about kill giant rats.


All these points were heavily argued on the forums during development and serve as examples of how SWG did not cater to the fans. This, plus the issues with gameplay, are why people did not renew their subscriptions after buying the box. It was not a Star Wars game, not even close.

[KO_Gilligan]

Who is the caustic one, Hagon?


I'll give you a dollar if you'll remove the question mark key from your keyboard :D