Warp Travel

[Zindelon]

As I was watching ST: Voyager, a question popped into my head. I've read about the warp travel that they have set up in STO, but since this is set roughly 30 years in the future, will the Federation have developed and perfected "Transwarp drive"? Will you be able to upgrade your ships engines to be able to travel at transwarp speeds through use of your engineer's rank and stats? If anyone has a theory on this, or if a creator sees this and has an answer, my friends and I are very curious about this.

[THORN74]

the devs have mentioned the use of wormholes, transwarp conduits, and slipstream drives for long distance travel.

Transwarp coduits are more the Borg style of transwarp than the federation excelsior type "free flight" transwarp experiment that failed. but u are correct in the timeline being 30+ beyond nemisis, so perhaps the federation has perfected their transwarp technology?


the big difference between transwarp flight (fed style) and transwarp conduits (borg style) is the borg type coduits would have a limited # of entry and exit points verses the fed's more free flight style that would be as flexible as standard warp flight (come and go as u please to any destination)

[jakeguy99]

the devs have mentioned the use of wormholes, transwarp conduits, and slipstream drives for long distance travel.

Transwarp coduits are more the Borg style of transwarp than the federation excelsior type "free flight" transwarp experiment that failed. but u are correct in the timeline being 30+ beyond nemisis, so perhaps the federation has perfected their transwarp technology?


the big difference between transwarp flight (fed style) and transwarp conduits (borg style) is the borg type coduits would have a limited # of entry and exit points verses the fed's more free flight style that would be as flexible as standard warp flight (come and go as u please to any destination)

Well Said.

[USS_Enduring_Vengence]

the devs have mentioned the use of wormholes, transwarp conduits, and slipstream drives for long distance travel.

Transwarp coduits are more the Borg style of transwarp than the federation excelsior type "free flight" transwarp experiment that failed. but u are correct in the timeline being 30+ beyond nemisis, so perhaps the federation has perfected their transwarp technology?


the big difference between transwarp flight (fed style) and transwarp conduits (borg style) is the borg type coduits would have a limited # of entry and exit points verses the fed's more free flight style that would be as flexible as standard warp flight (come and go as u please to any destination)
Slipstream Drive?
I don't remember hearing about that...

[tarengrim]

hm, well for the sake of benig playable, I would assume there to be more Trans warp conduits, as in "entry point into new Server Map"
Free flight sounds all nice and actually great, though it might make it hard to put into the game itself. In the worst case you punch in your coordinates and just engage max cruising warp speed and lean back in your chair, waiting for some years to arrive in the next Galaxy Quadrant.

[MajorD]

I think they may not be using wormholes, In a recent interview, one of the ones listed on the front page, I can't remember which, they mentioned only transwarp for fast travel, no wormholes. They must have realized that if you can make transwarp conduits, there isn't much reason for wormholes, since they're equally fast. Although, I can think of a reason to use wormholes, open one temporarily to get to a destination, then lay a transwarp conduit hub. That still leaves conduits being the primary method of travel. Of course, it assumes you don't have free form transwarp travel, which is slower than the conduit method.
Slipstream Drive?
I don't remember hearing about that...
Quantum Slipstream is a drive method very similar to Borg Transwarp drive that Voyager encountered and emulated. I'm actually surprised Starfleet isn't using Quantum Slipstream drives by the period the game takes place. Transwarp, both free and conduit based, struck me as being more advanced. Although, transwarp conduits allow for travel across the galaxy in minutes, about six, Quantum Slipstream takes anywhere from a month to a few minutes too, more than six minutes though, depending on how far its pushed. There are episodes that support both speeds. Which is weird because in "Scorpion" the Borg say it would take weeks to pull Voyager across Borg space, that would make Borg space bigger than the galaxy.

[Sevenblade]

the devs have mentioned the use of wormholes, transwarp conduits, and slipstream drives for long distance travel.

Transwarp coduits are more the Borg style of transwarp than the federation excelsior type "free flight" transwarp experiment that failed. but u are correct in the timeline being 30+ beyond nemisis, so perhaps the federation has perfected their transwarp technology?


the big difference between transwarp flight (fed style) and transwarp conduits (borg style) is the borg type coduits would have a limited # of entry and exit points verses the fed's more free flight style that would be as flexible as standard warp flight (come and go as u please to any destination)

Well, close, but not quite. The "free flight" 'transwarp' the Excelsior had was never said to have technically failed (Go check Ex Astris Scientia if you don't believe me. It's under Inconsistencies). Also, if we look at what transwarp means in later terms, I really doubt that the Excelsior was going to go to transwarp in the way we think of the Borg or the Voth (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Voth). There seems to be a distinction between different types of warp theory.

First, we have to start with the supposed Warp 10 barrier. This is set forth in the Voyager episode "Threshold" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Threshold_%28episode%29), which quite a few people question it's canonicity for reasons I'll get to. Anways the rule is that we simply cannot pass Warp 10, as Warp 10 is infinite velocity, thereby traveling to and occupying all points in the universe at once. Tom Paris managed to do that in the episode, but there's a few problems like the infinite or near infinite energy that would be needed to do this, and then the infinite mass the vessel would gain. And then it just got stupid when they devolved to lizards or whatever because of it, but I digress.

Anyways, the only thing to take away from that that's undeniably canon is the Warp 10 barrier. However, this creates some problems in earlier shows, especially TOS, when they said that the ship was traveling at warp 11, 14.1,15, 22, or all sorts of random numbers like that. TNG even did it once (in the standard universe) when the Traveler threw them across the universe into the Triangulum Galaxy. They stated that they were going warp 13, and then off the charts. I think the best way to explain this is that this was simply the closest approximation they could get to measuring the speed, even if the numbers were in no way accurate. Usually, these speeds were caused by some outside force that forced the ship to go faster than it's limit. You can see that here. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_factor)
Now, in the case of TOS, we tend to see this happen more because if you check, warp speeds tend to be slower in the ENT/TOS era. That is, a warp 4 in TOS does not correspond with warp 4 on TNG terms. So there's definitely a difference in warp scale and theory between the two larger eras. I think we can assume that the Excelsior was an experiment to break into this new scale, and since it was so much faster, it was just termed "transwarp", which has no bearing on the method that travels beyond traditional warp limits. There's some evidence (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transwarp_drive#Voth_transwarp_drive) to back this theory up:

Canonically it has never been stated that the Excelsior didn't achieve limited transwarp flight, only that it did not achieve infinite velocity. The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual (page 14) states that the Transwarp Development Project was simply unable to surpass the "primary warp field efficiency barrier" in the early 2280s. It is not clear what this barrier actually was.

I'm inclined to believe the "efficiency barrier" is just their way of describing the transition to the 24th century warp scale and theory.


There's also more conjectural theories on transwarp. (http://www.sfcommand.co.uk/info/transwarp) and the warp 10 barrier.


So we rule out the Excelsior as having 'real' transwarp. Ignoring the questionable warp 10 attainment by Tom Paris, we've only got two types of transwarp left. We have the Borg, and we have the Voth. While many people seem to think that the Borg have independent transwarp drives like a Starfleet ship has standard warp drive, this is actually a misconception. They do have transwarp coils; however, these are used to generate the fields necessary to open a conduit. However, this is dependent upon the large transwarp network they have placed all over the quadrants. So the coil allows them to enter the network of conduits, but if the conduits or part or all of the network is disabled/destroyed, they're limited to normal warp.
With the Voth, though, they've had literally millions of years in which to evolve and advance, and actually have a very fast transwarp drive, as well as standard warp in all their ships. This is an actual independent drive, and they can jump to transwarp just like a Starfleet vessel jumps to warp.

Then there's the quantum slipstream drive (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Quantum_slipstream_drive), which is created by Species 116, Arturis' species. They already had slipstream drive, and used it to evade the Borg. It uses similar properties as transwarp, and is about as fast. It uses a focused, narrow warp field to create a subspace tunnel. Unfortunately, the ship it was first found on, the Dauntless, was found out to be a fake, but Voyager managed to adapt the technology in a limited fashion to shorten their trip home. And if you read the novels, the Aventine (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Aventine) under Captain Ezri Dax is the testbed for the new slipstream technology.



It seems like Cryptic is planning on using a little of each in the game. There will be a transwarp network set up for the Federation to use, so apparently we borrowed that concept and technology from the Borg. I can't remember if they mentioned limited slipstream drive usage, but it would make sense, as well. And then there's the use of wormholes, like the Gamma Quadrant one next to DS9.

[ronaldheld]

In trhe novels some ships have slipstream drive, so it may be available in the game?

[THORN74]

Well, close, but not quite. The "free flight" 'transwarp' the Excelsior had was never said to have technically failed (Go check Ex Astris Scientia if you don't believe me. It's under Inconsistencies). Also, if we look at what transwarp means in later terms, I really doubt that the Excelsior was going to go to transwarp in the way we think of the Borg or the Voth (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Voth). There seems to be a distinction between different types of warp theory.


yes, more acurately the excelsior was SABOTAGED by Captian Montgomery Scott. Although in the TNG tech manual , on page 4, does call the Excelsior a failed experiment commenting on the choice too make the Enterprise B an excelsior class ship.


Anyways, the only thing to take away from that that's undeniably canon is the Warp 10 barrier. However, this creates some problems in earlier shows, especially TOS, when they said that the ship was traveling at warp 11, 14.1,15, 22, or all sorts of random numbers like that. TNG even did it once (in the standard universe) when the Traveler threw them across the universe into the Triangulum Galaxy. They stated that they were going warp 13, and then off the charts. I think the best way to explain this is that this was simply the closest approximation they could get to measuring the speed, even if the numbers were in no way accurate. Usually, these speeds were caused by some outside force that forced the ship to go faster than it's limit. You can see that here. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_factor)
Now, in the case of TOS, we tend to see this happen more because if you check, warp speeds tend to be slower in the ENT/TOS era. That is, a warp 4 in TOS does not correspond with warp 4 on TNG terms. So there's definitely a difference in warp scale and theory between the two larger eras. I think we can assume that the Excelsior was an experiment to break into this new scale, and since it was so much faster, it was just termed "transwarp", which has no bearing on the method that travels beyond traditional warp limits. There's some evidence (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transwarp_drive#Voth_transwarp_drive) to back this theory up:

this is a little off topic, but please remember it isnt warp 10 thats is unatainable, its infiante velocity thats unatainable. "warp 10" is just a place holder on the new TNG warp scale. TOS used a different scale so TNG warp 7 is a different velocity than TOS warp 7. I would submit, that as transwarp and slipstream speeds become more common the scale will again be redefined.

So we rule out the Excelsior as having 'real' transwarp. Ignoring the questionable warp 10 attainment by Tom Paris, we've only got two types of transwarp left. We have the Borg, and we have the Voth. While many people seem to think that the Borg have independent transwarp drives like a Starfleet ship has standard warp drive, this is actually a misconception. They do have transwarp coils; however, these are used to generate the fields necessary to open a conduit. However, this is dependent upon the large transwarp network they have placed all over the quadrants. So the coil allows them to enter the network of conduits, but if the conduits or part or all of the network is disabled/destroyed, they're limited to normal warp.

this is precisely what i said earlier, the "borg transwarp" is limited to the entries and exits in their network. they can only travel along the already established routes at traswarp speed. every other direction of flight they are just as limited as everyone else to standard warp speed. and yes u are correct, thier "traswarp engines" are mearly triggers for the conduit network.


With the Voth, though, they've had literally millions of years in which to evolve and advance, and actually have a very fast transwarp drive, as well as standard warp in all their ships. This is an actual independent drive, and they can jump to transwarp just like a Starfleet vessel jumps to warp.

this is exactly what starfleet was going for with the excelsior program, but failed to accomplish. Perhaps by 2409 they have had more success, though we havent been told so yet.

Then there's the quantum slipstream drive (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Quantum_slipstream_drive), which is created by Species 116, Arturis' species. They already had slipstream drive, and used it to evade the Borg. It uses similar properties as transwarp, and is about as fast. It uses a focused, narrow warp field to create a subspace tunnel. Unfortunately, the ship it was first found on, the Dauntless, was found out to be a fake, but Voyager managed to adapt the technology in a limited fashion to shorten their trip home. And if you read the novels, the Aventine (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Aventine) under Captain Ezri Dax is the testbed for the new slipstream technology.

your link to memory-alpha doesnt say which is faster, and based on the events in the Star Trek: Destiny trilogy, i would surmize the slipstream is at least potenitally faster. And while The Aventine (and perhaps the rest of the vesta class) seems to be the test bed for the slipstream drive, it hard to say which is truely better. Although, even if they are equal in speed (which i dont think they are) slipstream is better for its "free flight' capabillities. And i would also say that Captian Hernandez made the drive fully operational (thanx to her Calier abilities).

[Sevenblade]

yes, more acurately the excelsior was SABOTAGED by Captian Montgomery Scott. Although in the TNG tech manual , on page 4, does call the Excelsior a failed experiment commenting on the choice too make the Enterprise B an excelsior class ship.

Not entirely. Read the articles I posted again, or Ex Astris. The Excelsior's sabotaging led to a ship-wide power failure, not necessarily a failure by the transwarp engines. We have no evidence that says that they were actually the problem or that they never worked. They could have, and with the breaking of the "efficiency barrier", what they called 'transwarp' simply became the TNG warp scale.


this is a little off topic, but please remember it isnt warp 10 thats is unatainable, its infiante velocity thats unatainable. "warp 10" is just a place holder on the new TNG warp scale. TOS used a different scale so TNG warp 7 is a different velocity than TOS warp 7. I would submit, that as transwarp and slipstream speeds become more common the scale will again be redefined.

Yeah, that's fairly accurate. But since reaching warp 10 means that you attain infinite velocity, saying 'warp 10' is just short hand for that. And while it's not technically unattainable, it's only been done once under near impossible circumstances, so it's not a feasible or realistic goal to aim for. Though I think you're right, a common transwarp and slipstream usage will redefine the scale again.

this is precisely what i said earlier, the "borg transwarp" is limited to the entries and exits in their network. they can only travel along the already established routes at traswarp speed. every other direction of flight they are just as limited as everyone else to standard warp speed. and yes u are correct, thier "traswarp engines" are mearly triggers for the conduit network.

Okay, just making sure. A lot of people seem to think that the Borg have the conduits/network, which are near instantaneous, but then also have independent transwarp drives, which are somewhat slower, but still much faster than normal warp. It kinda sounded like you were following that traditional, incorrect theory. Glad to see that we're on the same page, though.


this is exactly what starfleet was going for with the excelsior program, but failed to accomplish. Perhaps by 2409 they have had more success, though we havent been told so yet.

Not quite. That's what I was trying to say. The Excelsior's 'transwarp' wasn't "true" transwarp, in the sense that it goes faster than the traditional warp barrier of 9.9 repeating. Really, they were just vastly improving the efficiency of warp, and transitioning to the new warp scale. The Voth transwarp drive is very different, as it allows independent ships to jump to "true" transwarp, the same thing that Borg ships go through inside their conduits, except free ranging and allowing them to travel in any direction, much like warp (which they also have, by the way). It'd be nice to see Federation develop transwarp drives, though if we're just getting transwarp conduits like the Borg, it doesn't seem like transwarp drives will be around anytime soon. We'd be more likely to attain slipstream drive, which is almost as good.

your link to memory-alpha doesnt say which is faster, and based on the events in the Star Trek: Destiny trilogy, i would surmize the slipstream is at least potenitally faster. And while The Aventine (and perhaps the rest of the vesta class) seems to be the test bed for the slipstream drive, it hard to say which is truely better. Although, even if they are equal in speed (which i dont think they are) slipstream is better for its "free flight' capabillities. And i would also say that Captian Hernandez made the drive fully operational (thanx to her Calier abilities).

Yeah, we've never got an actual statement on which is faster. However, Borg transwarp conduits seem to be able to let a ship jump across the galaxy in minutes, maybe hours, tops. Slipstream drive is pretty fast, but when we saw the Dauntless and Voyager use it, they didn't jump across entire quadrants in an instant, but probably a sector or two. But yes, slipstream has much more benefits in allowing ships to travel whichever way they choose. It seems that if slipstream is incorporated into the standard Federation ship, the fastest and most efficient way of traveling would be to take the "highway" of transwarp conduits, get off at the nearest aperture, then take slipstream to the system you wish, and use traditional warp to navigate the system itself.