What's the diffrence between a refit and an upgrade

[Ruzzell]

I think a refit is a signifigant amount of internal hardware replacement to at least 1/2 of all critical systems with componets that are of a newer design that have previously exsisted. Anything less is just an upgrade.

Thoughts?

[swedishviking]

Refits are mass upgrades to the whole ship

[USS_Parallax]

Refits usually are massive upgrades, most often outright replacing many to most ship systems and greatly altering even the hull up to more current standards.

[THORN74]

actually refit and upgrade are interchangable.......... most ships have minor upgrades/refits every 1-5 years and major refits/overhauls at 20-25 years

[USS_Parallax]

actually refit and upgrade are interchangable.......... most ships have minor upgrades/refits every 1-5 years and major refits/overhauls at 20-25 years

I'd say a refit can be called an upgrade but I'd not want to call an upgrade a refit. Technically they basically mean the same thing but the word refit has stronger overtones in Star Trek. If I just refit one system, maybe the deflector dish, and maybe it looks exactly the same, I wouldn't want to call my ship a refit. It's been upgraded and technically retrofitted but bleh. I'll call it what I want! :O

[Flatfingers]

I'd say a refit can be called an upgrade but I'd not want to call an upgrade a refit. Technically they basically mean the same thing but the word refit has stronger overtones in Star Trek. If I just refit one system, maybe the deflector dish, and maybe it looks exactly the same, I wouldn't want to call my ship a refit. It's been upgraded and technically retrofitted but bleh.

Well said. :)

Another example: if I change out the isolinear chips in my computer core for faster chips, that's an upgrade.

If I have my entire isolinear computer system replaced with a computer core based on bioneural gel packs, and replace every bit of ODN wiring to support the core's faster processing, that's a refit.

To me, "refit" also carries a connotation of "can only be done in drydock," as opposed to an upgrade that might be performed at a starbase or even while under way. But I'm open to disagreement on that.

--Flatfingers

[chris1701]

A upgrade is a newer version of the same hardware, so if I replace my ATI HD 4870 512meg to a 1gig version, then its an upgrade.

A retrofit is to replace it with newer hardware which wasnt avaiable at the time when the replacement was available, so, my old Nvidia 8800 GTS, the ATI 4870 HD 1gig wasnt avaiable, so when I got the new ATI card, it would be classed as a retrofit.

[USS_Parallax]

A upgrade is a newer version of the same hardware, so if I replace my ATI HD 4870 512meg to a 1gig version, then its an upgrade.

A retrofit is to replace it with newer hardware which wasnt avaiable at the time when the replacement was available, so, my old Nvidia 8800 GTS, the ATI 4870 HD 1gig wasnt avaiable, so when I got the new ATI card, it would be classed as a retrofit.

What? No.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Typically I think an "upgrade" is when you replace outdated systems with newer ones(replacing one phaser for another). A refit is when you make a fairly significant change to the ship(adding MORE phasers).

[Deyvid]

Here's how I originally saw the difference:

Take the original Constitution-class USS Enterprise NCC-1701 (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701)%2C_ENT.jpg) from The Original Series, circa 2245 - 2260s. Look at the outer hull, the nacelles, the nacelle pylons, the geometry of that ship. Okay. Upgrades could be improvements to the internal systems, either by reprogramming the computer, swapping out EPS conduits, installing a better air filter and more efficient muffler, and that all increases the performance of the ship via upgrades.

Now look at the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:V%27ger3.jpg) circa 2271. This is still the same NCC-1701, it's not the 1701-A (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:USS_Enterprise-A_quarter.jpg) yet. The 1701-A isn't commissioned until 2286 after the 1701-refit was destroyed (at the end of ST3: Search for Spock). So the picture of the Enterprise by the V'Ger cloud is still the 1701 (not the 1701-A). So, okay, that shows that the ships entire nacelles were swapped out, the nacelle pylons were swapped out, the deflector dish was swapped out (from the copper-colored radar dish of TOS to the recessed glowing blue deflector in TMP) and the saucer was changed. It appears the entire outer hull was changed.

Perhaps there's a sub-structure like a car's internal frame and what they did was replace the outer body of the ship, so it was technically the same ship (same internal sub-structure) but with new outer body and nacelles etc.

That to me is a refit, when major components such as nacelles, or the saucer, or even sensor packs and weapons modules, are added or removed or changed. The way some of the Miranda-class ships had a "rollbar" and some didn't. If you added a rollbar to a Miranda that didn't originally have one, that to me would be a refit.


Here's an interesting read about Refits (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Refit) at Memory Alpha. Not surprisingly, the canon doesn't always help to answer the questions or solve the situation.

[IcarusTyler]

On the same note: Does it have anything to do with a RETRO-fit? Whenever I hear refit I think of this.

[Deyvid]

On the same note: Does it have anything to do with a RETRO-fit? Whenever I hear refit I think of this.

According to the Memory Alpha page for Refit (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Refit), "refit" and "retrofit" are similar but not the same thing:
Refit and retrofit are the processes by which a starship (or any other type of vessel) is overhauled and re-outfitted with newer technology.
then later on the same page....
A retrofit is the installation of updated equipment aboard a starship. It differs from a refit in that the vessel's overall structure remains unchanged in the process - the components in question are simply swapped out. A retrofit may not require a spacedock.

[THORN74]

I'd say a refit can be called an upgrade but I'd not want to call an upgrade a refit. Technically they basically mean the same thing but the word refit has stronger overtones in Star Trek. If I just refit one system, maybe the deflector dish, and maybe it looks exactly the same, I wouldn't want to call my ship a refit. It's been upgraded and technically retrofitted but bleh. I'll call it what I want! :O

calling what they did to the connie a refit was wrong, it was more of a redesign. i can see your point though when u use that as an example. The term refit is more akin to "Scheduled maintinance" on your car. Every ship has a planned cycle for which it has to perform/report to somewhere (starbase usually) for inspection and upgrading of systems as needed. sometimes these upgrades are due to stree/wear and tear or sometimes its just new tech is available. the connie "refit" should more accuratly be called a Varriant.

[qoona]

refit is a major recostruction of previously costructed hull. variant, is a new hull , with refit specifications, say i have a ship, with three dual 7inch guns. ill refit it , changing guns to dual 8". ANd by that time new ship is made with same hull, and general construction, but tripple 6" turrets. The 8" is a refit, 6" is variant

[USS_Parallax]

The term refit is more akin to "Scheduled maintinance" on your car.

What? Crazy man on the lose!

Thinking of it that way I'd never call work on my car a refit if it's not totally upgrading many things. Calling something a refit is different then refitting something.

[THORN74]

refit is a major recostruction of previously costructed hull. variant, is a new hull , with refit specifications, say i have a ship, with three dual 7inch guns. ill refit it , changing guns to dual 8". ANd by that time new ship is made with same hull, and general construction, but tripple 6" turrets. The 8" is a refit, 6" is variant

thats kind of my point, sure they called the Enterprise 1701 from ST 1-3 a refit. but the 1701-A was a new ship and therefore NOT a refit, it was a variant. So, there is confusion about what a refit means because everyone calls all connies that look like Enterprise 1701-A a "connie refit". and that would be incorrect.


refit, is more of a term describing a scheduled maintenance of a ship. sometimes it involves repairs, upgrades, overhauls, and rarely (like the Enterprise) a major design change.

[USS_Parallax]

Well now you're getting into things that don't matter. In Star Trek there's the common practice of building new ships to current standards. So a Miranda which has been refitted from an old design is a refit while basically the same ship is built new AS the refit. So you could easily argue it's never actually been refitted so it can't be called one.
At this point I'd think there would be the original designs and refit designs. While a new ship made with refit specs never technically went and got a refit it still uses the refit designs. So in a way it can still be considered a refit of the old design, yet without actually having been refit. ;)


Miranda-class ships were still being build in like the 2360s, maybe later. Of course they were build to the highest Miranda-class refit standards (which the ship had gone through several refits by TNG). I'd still call them refits just because their made from a refitted design without having gone through a refit.

[grimfox]

the way i read refit is when you take a haul and scramble up things so you have a phaser array, you exchange that phaser array with a sensor pack move the medical facility to where the bridge is the bridge to where the the phaser array was and fill in the rest of the spots with whatever i've missed. ideally this is all done to improve performance of the ships systems. Usually this is a result of decreasing the size of the phaser array but maintaining or increasing the power. So upgrades to individual systems that make them more flexible and therefore leads to a refit when the upgrades make it possible to move devices around the ship so that they are even more effective. This could also be something along the lines of "we need to upgrade the power source for new more power hungry applications." So you do all your upgrades at once without moving things around. That would also be a refit. An upgrade i would reserve for replacing one component with a better one. I think the OP's definition is fairly accurate, an upgrade revolves a smaller portion of the ship where a refit is more of the ship. to break that down even futher, several upgrades do no a refit make. at a certain point it becomes a question of semantics. for instance if you upgraded the power supply took the ship out tested the powersupply and then installed new weapons systems took the ship out and tested those would that be a refit or an upgrade, since it's all not being done at once but it is happening in a short time frame?

[THORN74]

What? Crazy man on the lose!

Thinking of it that way I'd never call work on my car a refit if it's not totally upgrading many things. Calling something a refit is different then refitting something.

sure just like one of the other poster said (well to paraphrase him) ..... if u take ur car in and have them put on a new exhaust (for performance or repair) that would be a refit, new tires = refit, changing the oil = refit, but what the enterprise had done............


thats like taking ur 25 year old car into the mechanic and he pulls off the body, doors, seats, EVERYTHING down to the frame. then he puts in all brand new stuff, gives u a new interior and exterior, paint job, smoke screen, and machineguns behind the headlights. much much more than a refit, that is a redesign.

[qoona]

also reffit is somewhat standard, and variant is unique. Looka at apanese Agano cruiser line: Agano was light cruiser, Yahagi was a state of art anti aircraft ship, and oyodo was a seaplane tender. And all three were Agano Class cruisers