Romulus *Possible Movie Spoiler*

[Davros]

In the upcoming Star Trek film it is widely believed that Romulus is destroyed in the late 24th century, assuming this is the case how do you think STO will approach this event?

I can appreciate that from a continuity and canon prospective the new film is more of a re-imagination rather than a direct prequel. So do you think Romulus will have been destroyed in STO and if so what will the political and economic ramifications be? Do you believe that the new movie should be discounted from original Star Trek canon?

I would prefer this thread didn’t become to burdened with the canon side of things, but rather focus on a more speculative approach for instance how the loss of a significant home world would affect the dynamic of the STO universe.

[Silverspar]

It's in the new comic actually. Romulus was destroyed. Now, if after the movie, Romulus get's restored (that will be one hell of a Dues Ex right there) remains to be seen.

[Davros]

I haven’t read it as I don’t want to spoil too much of the film (maybe a little late for that now). :D

[Silverspar]

I haven’t read it as I don’t want to spoil too much of the film (maybe a little late for that now). :D

The comic is a prequel to the movie.

[Azurian]

Well given what's occured so far in the Path to 2409, I wouldn't be surprised if that supernova was triggered by one of the Romulan Factions or by the Klingons in getting rid of the Star Empire once and for all.

[JPJappic]

The comic is a prequel to the movie.

The comic is a prequel to the movie but takes place 7 years after Star Trek Nemesis.

[Silverspar]

8 years, takes place in 2387. This is why I figure that the timeline updates will not happen at a regular pace until after the Star Trek movie.

[Sckullzy]

The comic is a prequel to the movie but takes place 7 years after Star Trek Nemesis.

The comic might be after Nemesis and the movie might be after the cage but before the man trap or some crazy crap like that. There may be time travel involved but it's all rumor so far.

[Silverspar]

The comic might be after Nemesis and the movie might be after the cage but before the man trap or some crazy crap like that. There may be time travel involved but it's all rumor so far.

There is no rumor on that. Nero is from the year 2387, old Spock travels back into the past.

[USS_Parallax]

I hope they count these comics as canon. They're made directly with a... somewhat canon movie! :p

[Sckullzy]

There is no rumor on that. Nero is from the year 2387, old Spock travels back into the past.

It's J.J. Abrams, you really never know till you're sitting in the theater going "damn this isn't nearly as good as it could have been."

[Silverspar]

It's J.J. Abrams, you really never know till you're sitting in the theater going "damn this isn't nearly as good as it could have been."

Except it's in the comic which is the direct prequel of the movie, so yea, it is :p

[Sckullzy]

Except it's in the comic which is the direct prequel of the movie, so yea, it is :p

The comic is out already?

[Silverspar]

Part 1 to 3 is out, part 4 comes out on the 1st.

[Azurian]

Yes it is.

And I found the ending of Comic 1 very interesting. That interface you see, I swear I saw in once before with STO.

[JPJappic]

8 years, takes place in 2387. This is why I figure that the timeline updates will not happen at a regular pace until after the Star Trek movie.

You're right.. i am horrible at math. And I agree with you.. I think cryptic knows what's going to happen and is waiting for the last comic / movie to come out until they start revealing stuff..

With that in mind if things remain the way they are and Romulus is destroyed as already indicated.. that's definitely interesting.. it's such an iconic planet. What happens with the Romulans from there...

[Sckullzy]

Part 1 to 3 is out, part 4 comes out on the 1st.

This dosen't mean I've missed a comic, this means I've sort of failed a Wednesday (new comic day)

Then again I'm not real thrilled about the movie but still the fact I didn't catch this stings a bit.

[Vorador]

Bah, Romulus better not be destroyed. Movies are getting worse and worse :P. First Nemesis now this.

[Silverspar]

You're right.. i am horrible at math. And I agree with you.. I think cryptic knows what's going to happen and is waiting for the last comic / movie to come out until they start revealing stuff..

With that in mind if things remain the way they are and Romulus is destroyed as already indicated.. that's definitely interesting.. it's such an iconic planet. What happens with the Romulans from there...

I've already stated it multiple times what woudl happen. This essentially leads into the events of All Good Things.. the Klingons basically invade the Romulan Star Empire and take over a significant portion of it. With the Romulan Command in disarray it will be an easy thing to do and probably by the time Donatra is able to muster a defense and get an established defensive ready, the Klingons will have the majority of their space taken. Donatra will probably ask the Federation for assistance, the Federation will step in and demand the Klingons hault their aggression, and of course, the result will be the Khitomer Accords will break down. For the protection, Donatra will probably "amend" the Treaty of Algeron and even offer help with cloaking technology for the Federation in the time it takes Romulans to get back on their feet, despite with the Romulan Star Empire officially destroyed with the destruction of Romulus and the death of the senate and praetor all at once, there really isn't a treaty left, though the Federation probably respects it out of courteosy.

This means that the Remans could potentially be an ally of the Klingon Empire since the Remans were allied with the Klingons in the events of Taking Wing novel. When the Romulans get their footing back they will rpobably close all their borders, what's left of them, and begin to rebuild themselves and expand again on a new homeworld, and will lead into the expansion that sees the New Romulan Empire entering into the conflicts of the galatic world, with the Romulans fighting back to regain their space, and of course against the Federation, probably becase Sela has taken over.

[JPJappic]

I've already stated it multiple times what woudl happen. This essentially leads into the events of All Good Things.. the Klingons basically invade the Romulan Star Empire and take over a significant portion of it. With the Romulan Command in disarray it will be an easy thing to do and probably by the time Donatra is able to muster a defense and get an established defensive ready, the Klingons will have the majority of their space taken. Donatra will probably ask the Federation for assistance, the Federation will step in and demand the Klingons hault their aggression, and of course, the result will be the Khitomer Accords will break down. For the protection, Donatra will probably "amend" the Treaty of Algeron and even offer help with cloaking technology for the Federation in the time it takes Romulans to get back on their feet, despite with the Romulan Star Empire officially destroyed with the destruction of Romulus and the death of the senate and praetor all at once, there really isn't a treaty left, though the Federation probably respects it out of courteosy.

This means that the Remans could potentially be an ally of the Klingon Empire since the Remans were allied with the Klingons in the events of Taking Wing novel. When the Romulans get their footing back they will rpobably close all their borders, what's left of them, and begin to rebuild themselves and expand again on a new homeworld, and will lead into the expansion that sees the New Romulan Empire entering into the conflicts of the galatic world, with the Romulans fighting back to regain their space, and of course against the Federation, probably becase Sela has taken over.

This is the first time I've seen this but it's very good.. maybe there will be a planet called New Romulus or something like that. :D Would be interesting for the Romulans to be allies with the Federation.. then again the Klingons and Romulans could be of the same faction when an eventual expansion comes out. Leaves this open for the Cardassians allying with the Federation.

[THORN74]

I hope they count these comics as canon. They're made directly with a... somewhat canon movie! :p

first ..... the movie isnt somewhat canon ...... it WILL be canon.

2nd its not a re-imagining, its a "time-travel-altering-the-timeline" movie. Without really revealing anything specific, a rommulan named Nero goes back in time and changes the past. All the people we know and love are there but the manner in which they meet/interact chas been changed. they are still the same people, and every indication says they will become they people we know, but the circumstances surrounding their origins have been altered due to the timeline change.

[AdmGillis]

This is the first time I've seen this but it's very good.. maybe there will be a planet called New Romulus or something like that. :D Would be interesting for the Romulans to be allies with the Federation.. then again the Klingons and Romulans could be of the same faction when an eventual expansion comes out. Leaves this open for the Cardassians allying with the Federation.

The funny thing is that Romulus isn't even named Romulus.

It's a name that the Federation gave it. Romulus and Remus, the twin planets in the system that the Romulans settled on, named on the folk legend of the twins that founded the Roman Empire.

The Romulans are named the Rhiann'su, and the planet is Ch'Rian, if I'm not mistaken on spelling.

The Vulcans aren't named Vulcans, either. Another throw back to Roman legend.

Thing is, Vulcan and Romulan languages are pretty much unpronouncable by Humans(even thought they decide to let Hoshi speak it in Enterprise, which is bs), so the Humans gave these names to them and the Romulans to make it easier.

[Sckullzy]

first ..... the movie isnt somewhat canon ...... it WILL be canon.

2nd its not a re-imagining, its a "time-travel-altering-the-timeline" movie. Without really revealing anything specific, a rommulan named Nero goes back in time and changes the past. All the people we know and love are there but the manner in which they meet/interact chas been changed. they are still the same people, and every indication says they will become they people we know, but the circumstances surrounding their origins have been altered due to the timeline change.

You really think the bad robot movie will be strong canon? The movies are already pretty easy to blow off even the ones with Shatner himself in them.

I like J.J. Abrams but he is a bit of a hack as far as movies go and most of the trailers have made this look like a star trek/ star wars marriage.

[THORN74]

The funny thing is that Romulus isn't even named Romulus.

It's a name that the Federation gave it. Romulus and Remus, the twin planets in the system that the Romulans settled on, named on the folk legend of the twins that founded the Roman Empire.

The Romulans are named the Rhiann'su, and the planet is Ch'Rian, if I'm not mistaken on spelling.

The Vulcans aren't named Vulcans, either. Another throw back to Roman legend.

Thing is, Vulcan and Romulan languages are pretty much unpronouncable by Humans(even thought they decide to let Hoshi speak it in Enterprise, which is bs), so the Humans gave these names to them and the Romulans to make it easier.

i would buy the argument that the word ROMMULAN or VULCAN is the English translation of the "native tounge" of either species, but im going to have to ask for a source on the Rhiann'su and Ch'Rian words/names

i dont ever recall hearing/seeing either of those before.

[JPJappic]

i would buy the argument that the word ROMMULAN or VULCAN is the English translation of the "native tounge" of either species, but im going to have to ask for a source on the Rhiann'su and Ch'Rian words/names

i dont ever recall hearing/seeing either of those before.

As far as I know there aren't any canon references to either name (Rhiann'su and Ch'Rian). I have heard of them from books though.

[THORN74]

You really think the bad robot movie will be strong canon? The movies are already pretty easy to blow off even the ones with Shatner himself in them.

I like J.J. Abrams but he is a bit of a hack as far as movies go and most of the trailers have made this look like a star trek/ star wars marriage.

strictly speaking anything one screen (movie or tv) is concidered CANON. Off screen sources (books, magazines, etc...) is concidered SOFT-canon. so, Startrek XI is going to be canon, just as much as any other episode or movie.

there are some crazy purests out there that might say the only "true canon" is durring Roddenberry's lifetime, but i think thats kind of extreem. In general terms, because there are so many inconsistancies "canon" is in the evey of the beholder. so like the books and consider them part of the canon, orhters will say this series counts and that one doesnt. i gues everyone needs to make up their own mind.

maybe, the new movie end with everything back to normal? ya never know

[Hylanvahr]

This is the first time I've seen this but it's very good.. maybe there will be a planet called New Romulus or something like that. :D Would be interesting for the Romulans to be allies with the Federation.. then again the Klingons and Romulans could be of the same faction when an eventual expansion comes out. Leaves this open for the Cardassians allying with the Federation.

I would go one further step with this and say that it's likely what Spock ends up doing by the end of the movie could finally accomplish his quest for unification between the Romulans and Vulcans. With the amount of time that passes between the events in the Countdown comics and the start of STO, the Romulans being full-blown members of the Federation is not far fetched at all. :)

[Azurian]

Which easily could explain why the Federation have cloaks in STO, because the Romulan Empire no longer exists. So thus the Treaty of Algeron is no longer in effect.

But since we know there are Romulan ships in STO, makes me think that one half was conquered by the Klingon Empire, and the rest joined the Federation. Which makes talks of reunification all the more easier.


Must admit, this time period is going to be more interesting than I anticipated. :D

[Lennon]

I wish I preordered the TPB through Amazon last week. Two days ago they sent out the preorder three weeks early on mistake.
EDIT: They put the preview of #4 on trekmovie.com tonight.

[AdmGillis]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Romulus

At the bottom. I misspelled the name of Romulus, though, which is actually ch'Rihan. It's from novels, but it's mentioned in many of them, and makes a lot of sense.

Even though novels aren't canon, it's not realistic to believe that the Vulcans and Romulans all just so happen to have names from Roman mythology, especially since the Vulcans did not have knowledge of our existance until the 20th century, and the Romulans not until we were already warp capable and knocking on their door.

[CaptainTy]

I hope they count these comics as canon. They're made directly with a... somewhat canon movie! :p

I personally (Not to effend anyone) Hope that this movie does not influence the "STO Timeline" I really don't like what J.J Abrams is doing with "Star Trek" but, that is just my 2 sense. STO is very much the way I think ST should of gone and I don't want to see any of this alternet timeline stuff in it.

[Davros]

I personally (Not to effend anyone) Hope that this movie does not influence the "STO Timeline" I really don't like what J.J Abrams is doing with "Star Trek" but, that is just my 2 sense. STO is very much the way I think ST should of gone and I don't want to see any of this alternet timeline stuff in it.


I can appreciate what you’re saying, and why you’re saying it. However, as the game is set almost 200 years after the movie the events in the film could be canon but have its contents essentially ignored by STO. This doesn’t really work if the Romulan home world is gone, but it could fit with the already established continuity from episodes such as All Good Things.

[Manx]

I personally (Not to effend anyone) Hope that this movie does not influence the "STO Timeline" I really don't like what J.J Abrams is doing with "Star Trek" but, that is just my 2 sense. STO is very much the way I think ST should of gone and I don't want to see any of this alternet timeline stuff in it.

My understanding is that the movie is a completely new timeline while STO is a continuation of the old one. I imagine that the events of the comic will have an impact on STO, but the movie itself most likely will not.

[JPJappic]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Romulus

At the bottom. I misspelled the name of Romulus, though, which is actually ch'Rihan. It's from novels, but it's mentioned in many of them, and makes a lot of sense.

Even though novels aren't canon, it's not realistic to believe that the Vulcans and Romulans all just so happen to have names from Roman mythology, especially since the Vulcans did not have knowledge of our existance until the 20th century, and the Romulans not until we were already warp capable and knocking on their door.

Books = not canon

If they accept one thing from the books they have to accept it all.

'nuff said.

[Manx]

Books = not canon

If they accept one thing from the books they have to accept it all.

'nuff said.

No they don't. They have already said that they are looking at the books; but since they are not canon they can just use the bits that they think would be useful.

The comics are the official prequel to the movie, that makes them a bit closer to canon than, say, the Titan novels, which they do seem to be drawing from (the Luna class is confirmed).

[Sorayn]

Does anyone have a link to the prequel comics or can you only buy them in stores?

[evan.is.weyoun]

This actually makes sense with the lack of timeline updates, and also considering they've stopped at 2385.

[JPJappic]

No they don't. They have already said that they are looking at the books; but since they are not canon they can just use the bits that they think would be useful.

The comics are the official prequel to the movie, that makes them a bit closer to canon than, say, the Titan novels, which they do seem to be drawing from (the Luna class is confirmed).

Sorry, I didn't word what I said correctly.

I just meant that what are in the books are up for interpretation and not a hard source for information. I have no problems if Cryptic or whoever goes and uses those two names.. it's just a little detail that's not that big of a deal in the end.

[Silverspar]

I personally (Not to effend anyone) Hope that this movie does not influence the "STO Timeline" I really don't like what J.J Abrams is doing with "Star Trek" but, that is just my 2 sense. STO is very much the way I think ST should of gone and I don't want to see any of this alternet timeline stuff in it.

I can appreciate what you’re saying, and why you’re saying it. However, as the game is set almost 200 years after the movie the events in the film could be canon but have its contents essentially ignored by STO. This doesn’t really work if the Romulan home world is gone, but it could fit with the already established continuity from episodes such as All Good Things.

Not to break both of your bubbles, but again, the new Star Trek movie is canon. The first part of the new movie will be taking place in the 24th century (2387 to be exact), as Nero comes from the future. I am sure neither of you two actually know the plot line of the movie so you really can't say what JJ has done to it past what we've been told in interviews, which is very little actually.

[THORN74]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Romulus

At the bottom. I misspelled the name of Romulus, though, which is actually ch'Rihan. It's from novels, but it's mentioned in many of them, and makes a lot of sense.

Even though novels aren't canon, it's not realistic to believe that the Vulcans and Romulans all just so happen to have names from Roman mythology, especially since the Vulcans did not have knowledge of our existance until the 20th century, and the Romulans not until we were already warp capable and knocking on their door.

yes i completely agree with the statment in red. The WORDS vulcan or rommulan are definately english traslation of their native languages. As for the "true"names .... i had not hear those before

[Silverspar]

yes i completely agree with the statment in red. The WORDS vulcan or rommulan are definately english traslation of their native languages. As for the "true"names .... i had not hear those before
Red? So that means there is nothing you agree with in the post you quoted :p

[THORN74]

Red? So that means there is nothing you agree with in the post you quoted :p

oops ...i ment yellow..... i had originally selected red then changed it

[Opus_Penguin]

I tried to bring this up in a previous thread without providing spoilers (See thread "Operating Systems and Planet Destruction"). No one really answered my question as I was basically asking the same thing. There is not much info to go on, but from what I have heard, Romulus is destroyed in the TNG timeline which would impact this game. However, the comic is not out yet so we're not really sure. If it happens in Abrams movie in the alternate timeline, then it won't impact the game. I am waiting to hear official word on this.

[Silverspar]

I tried to bring this up in a previous thread without providing spoilers (See thread "Operating Systems and Planet Destruction"). No one really answered my question as I was basically asking the same thing. There is not much info to go on, but from what I have heard, Romulus is destroyed in the TNG timeline which would impact this game. However, the comic is not out yet so we're not really sure. If it happens in Abrams movie in the alternate timeline, then it won't impact the game. I am waiting to hear official word on this.

Uhh, the comic is out. Part 3 of 4 was released on the 18th and part 4 is going to be released on the 1st. Romulus has already been destroyed in the comic.

[LordDave]

I tried to bring this up in a previous thread without providing spoilers (See thread "Operating Systems and Planet Destruction"). No one really answered my question as I was basically asking the same thing. There is not much info to go on, but from what I have heard, Romulus is destroyed in the TNG timeline which would impact this game. However, the comic is not out yet so we're not really sure. If it happens in Abrams movie in the alternate timeline, then it won't impact the game. I am waiting to hear official word on this.

What silver said.
However, it's not going to affect the game. Why?
Because once Nero goes back in time, he changes all of history. Completely. As in "Everything you know about startrek is now wrong" kind of change. Romulus in that timeline is gone, but the romulus in the new timeline is ok.
And STO isn't following the new universe anyway, though I'm sure they'll try to incorporate it somehow.

[SirReginaldo]

I just enjoy the idea that such a combo of a comic punch, uppercut movie still exist. The comic sets you up and the movie takes a chair to your face. Heck there is even a game... I just hope paramount knows what they want to do with it. I expect it to be the lesser of these two games because we have seen how STO looks and have the essence of feel and most of us know it is what we want. With the other game, it is unknown... for all we know it could be a little arcade game... My money is on STO because cryptic has the history:D Cryptic, so you were the ones helping the Reptilians with your time travel abilities:p

[Varrangian]

Now I'm trying to remember my "All Good Things" here.

We find out at the end of "All Good Things" that the anomaly is Q's creation right? But that dose not mean that the comment that the Romulan Empire had been conquered by the Klingons is necessarily Q's creation right? I don't remember the episode that well, but thinking about it that aspect of it the reality may have been that the Klingons (unexplained reasons) actually conquered the Romulans.

[JPJappic]

What silver said.
However, it's not going to affect the game. Why?
Because once Nero goes back in time, he changes all of history. Completely. As in "Everything you know about startrek is now wrong" kind of change. Romulus in that timeline is gone, but the romulus in the new timeline is ok.
And STO isn't following the new universe anyway, though I'm sure they'll try to incorporate it somehow.

Okay...since you've obviously seen the movie and know exactly what's going to happen....

We don't know what direction the movie will take... we don't even know what direction Cryptic is going to be taking with STO past the current timeline update of 2385. Who is to say that what happens in the movie will just eliminate TOS from the picture and not the rest of the series. Who is to say that any of the other series will even be affected by what happens in the movie.

I prefer to think that the "Everything you know about star trek is now wrong" is moreso based towards attracting newer viewers so that they don't think that it's still geeky.

[Azurian]

I don't like how people are suggesting that the timelines got rewritten and ST11 takes place in another timeline, it's like Marvel having all those multiple universes for their comics.

Since little canon regarding the original crew before TOS, what's to say this is indeed the main timeline? After all the Enterprise surely could've gotten a refit and ended up looking like the TOS Enterprise.

[IG_Slayer]

Isnt this movie set back in the Kirk times not in the 2400s???

[Silverspar]

Now I'm trying to remember my "All Good Things" here.

We find out at the end of "All Good Things" that the anomaly is Q's creation right? But that dose not mean that the comment that the Romulan Empire had been conquered by the Klingons is necessarily Q's creation right? I don't remember the episode that well, but thinking about it that aspect of it the reality may have been that the Klingons (unexplained reasons) actually conquered the Romulans.

The events in "All Good Things..." takes place 25 years into the future at the end of TNG run which was in 2370. That means it would be roughly 2395, which you can see here (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/All_Good_Things..._%28episode%29). These events have been set in motion, the anti-time thing was just a thing Q set up, but the future is pretty much written in stone. We know Picard is now an Ambassador which was stated in "All Good Things..." which Picard states to Geordi that "It's been a long time since anyone has called me that also," though it is never specifically stated exactly what he was ambassador to. They don't specify the year the Klingons take over the Romulan Empire, of course. So that leaves it open but I would have to wager that it would have to happen no later than 2390.

[Silverspar]

Isnt this movie set back in the Kirk times not in the 2400s???

The movie starts at the tail end of the comic cliffhanger which happens in 2387.

[IG_Slayer]

The movie starts at the tail end of the comic cliffhanger which happens in 2387.

Oh so its a relative/ future family member of Kirks then that they show in the trailer? Thats cool! Makes me want to see the movie even more!!! :D Thanks for the clarification Silverspar!

[gogarty]

Well, since temporal mechanics are rather... tempermental... let's infer a few things. We already know that Star Fleet exists in the future, way in the future, and that future Star Fleet has cloaking technology (used around 2378 if not mistaken). After rewatching the ending of Voyager (no hate comments), we know that the Admiral's shuttle has cloaking we see it used. But we don't know the circumstances of how it came to be accepted in Star Fleet.

Can we not infer that the events of the new movie, leading to the destruction of the Romulan Empire, do indeed lead the current timeline to the use of technologies that were otherwise banned? If Romulus is indeed destroyed and the treaty nullified, it's reasonable to assume that Star Fleet does indeed start using the technology to counter the Klingon's use of it.


And I know that a lot of people hate the idea of the new movie already. JJ Abrams isn't really... too well liked considering his other projects as of late (Lost and Cloverfield to be exact) I can understand people's apprehension about putting his touches on a material that is already well established. But I'm atleast willing to watch his perception of TOS era Star Fleet in an alternate timeline... be it a little more aggressive looking. More so willing to watch the new movie than listen to another Shatner CD. Please, some one stop him from making another...

[Silverspar]

Oh so its a relative/ future family member of Kirks then that they show in the trailer? Thats cool! Makes me want to see the movie even more!!! :D Thanks for the clarification Silverspar!

No, the movie is a time travel movie. Nero is from 2387, so is old Spock. They go back in the past for as a yet unknown reason, as Nero is distraught and seeking revenge for the destruction of Romulus. He is blaming the Federation because he feels they purposely waited till the shock wave from the super nova destroyed Romulus, and the tatoos on Nero's face is suppose to actually be a Romulan mourning ritual that Nero and his crew are taking to extremes (aka the tatooing on their faces instead of just painting them on).

Captain Kirk in the movie is Captain Kirk, however, I believe Kirk looks like his father as well.

[Varrangian]

The events in "All Good Things..." takes place 25 years into the future at the end of TNG run which was in 2370. That means it would be roughly 2395, which you can see here (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/All_Good_Things..._%28episode%29). These events have been set in motion, the anti-time thing was just a thing Q set up, but the future is pretty much written in stone. We know Picard is now an Ambassador which was stated in "All Good Things..." which Picard states to Geordi that "It's been a long time since anyone has called me that also," though it is never specifically stated exactly what he was ambassador to. They don't specify the year the Klingons take over the Romulan Empire, of course. So that leaves it open but I would have to wager that it would have to happen no later than 2390.

Yeah that's sort of what I was thinking...

[IG_Slayer]

No, the movie is a time travel movie. Nero is from 2387, so is old Spock. They go back in the past for as a yet unknown reason, as Nero is distraught and seeking revenge for the destruction of Romulus. He is blaming the Federation because he feels they purposely waited till the shock wave from the super nova destroyed Romulus, and the tatoos on Nero's face is suppose to actually be a Romulan mourning ritual that Nero and his crew are taking to extremes (aka the tatooing on their faces instead of just painting them on).

Captain Kirk in the movie is Captain Kirk, however, I believe Kirk looks like his father as well.

OHHHHH.......................I understand now!!! *smacks head off table*

[E.M.H.]

OK, there seems to be some contradicting views on the destruction of Romulus, so here is what I know:

*WARNING! COUNTDOWN SPOILERS AND MINOR MOVIE SPOILERS!*

So, from what I have seen so far, Nero is a Romulan Miner who finds out that the Hobus star will go supernova and destroy his home world, Romulus. Nero then leaves for Romulus to warn them, but the high council ignores him. He then goes to Vulcan to get red matter to stop the supernova but the Vulcan High Council prohibits him from it. He then leaves to help evacuate Romulus but it's to late: the shock wave hits and completely destroys Romulus-with his wife and child on it. So Nero goes nuts and modifies his ship with Borg technology to turn it into the Narada that we see in the movie. To help destroy the Hobus supernova, Spock uses the "Jellyfish",create by Geordi LaForge. They are then somehow transported into the past (details on this are sketchy as it is from Countdown #4 which will not be released until April 1). Then Nero attacks the USS Kelvin and the time line is changed.

PLEASE NOTE: The "Star Trek XI" time line is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT time line than the "Next Generation" or "Original" time line. Star Trek Online will take place in the "Original" time line, as evidenced with the uniforms in the comic. However, considering Cryptic seems to be withholding time line updates for the game, something could happen either in Countdown #4 or the movie that brings Romulus back. Another possibility is that STO is in a slightly different timeline where Vulcan allowed Nero to use red matter and Romulus was never destroyed. Right now we don't know.

So: The destruction of Romulus is in the original time line, not the new time line.;)

[IG_Slayer]

OK, there seems to be some contradicting views on the destruction of Romulus, so here is what I know:

*WARNING! COUNTDOWN SPOILERS AND MINOR MOVIE SPOILERS!*

So, from what I have seen so far, Nero is a Romulan Miner who finds out that the Hobus star will go supernova and destroy his home world, Romulus. Nero then leaves for Romulus to warn them, but the high council ignores him. He then goes to Vulcan to get red matter to stop the supernova but the Vulcan High Council prohibits him from it. He then leaves to help evacuate Romulus but it's to late: the shock wave hits and completely destroys Romulus-with his wife and child on it. So Nero goes nuts and modifies his ship with Borg technology to turn it into the Narada that we see in the movie. To help destroy the Hobus supernova, Spock uses the "Jellyfish",create by Geordi LaForge. They are then somehow transported into the past (details on this are sketchy as it is from Countdown #4 which will not be released until April 1). Then Nero attacks the USS Kelvin and the time line is changed.

PLEASE NOTE: The "Star Trek XI" time line is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT time line than the "Next Generation" or "Original" time line. Star Trek Online will take place in the "Original" time line, as evidenced with the uniforms in the comic. However, considering Cryptic seems to be withholding time line updates for the game, something could happen either in Countdown #4 or the movie that brings Romulus back. Another possibility is that STO is in a slightly different timeline where Vulcan allowed Nero to use red matter and Romulus was never destroyed. Right now we don't know.

So: The destruction of Romulus is in the original time line, not the new time line.;)

Ok good to know........................ lol :D

[Silverspar]

He doesn't modify his ship. He finds, after capturing and executing the senate and praetor, the Vault, which was a top secret research facility and finds a experimental starship which has Borg technology implanted into it. Furthermore, Nero's child was unborn, finally, the Star Trek movie timeline isn't a different timeline. The events leading up to before the time travel event is apart of the official Star Trek timeline, the events during the time traveling, however, will be slightly different.

It's obvious that Nero went back to eliminate Kirk for some misguided reasoning since Kirk is seen as the quintessential Starfleet captain. Hence the attack on the Kelvin which Kirk was on as a baby, and his father saved him for, then again as he attacks the Enterprise.

[IG_Slayer]

Ok now Im confused ;) ...........................I'll just have to wait till the movie comes out! :D

[Azurian]

He doesn't modify his ship. He finds, after capturing and executing the senate and praetor, the Vault, which was a top secret research facility and finds a experimental starship which has Borg technology implanted into it.

Sorry, but on Page 14 of Comic 3, D'spal says the Narada would be a nice prototype vessel for the new Romulan-Borg technology. And on Page 17 Nero thanks D'spal in "transforming" the Narada into a weapon.

So it very well is the same ship (which was enhanced), and not a completely new one like you implied.

Furthermore, Nero's child was unborn, finally, the Star Trek movie timeline isn't a different timeline. The events leading up to before the time travel event is apart of the official Star Trek timeline, the events during the time traveling, however, will be slightly different.

It's obvious that Nero went back to eliminate Kirk for some misguided reasoning since Kirk is seen as the quintessential Starfleet captain. Hence the attack on the Kelvin which Kirk was on as a baby, and his father saved him for, then again as he attacks the Enterprise.

Lets not play around with "what ifs" until Comic #4 is released. :p

[Silverspar]

Lets not play around with "what ifs" until Comic #4 is released. What other reason would Nero have to attempt to attack the same person twice, once as an infant (look to be just born to) and second before he took command of the Enterprise other than he believed that killing Kirk would change things or whatever reason he has for going back :p

[E.M.H.]

He doesn't modify his ship. He finds, after capturing and executing the senate and praetor, the Vault, which was a top secret research facility and finds a experimental starship which has Borg technology implanted into it. Furthermore, Nero's child was unborn, finally, the Star Trek movie timeline isn't a different timeline. The events leading up to before the time travel event is apart of the official Star Trek timeline, the events during the time traveling, however, will be slightly different.

It's obvious that Nero went back to eliminate Kirk for some misguided reasoning since Kirk is seen as the quintessential Starfleet captain. Hence the attack on the Kelvin which Kirk was on as a baby, and his father saved him for, then again as he attacks the Enterprise.

First of all, the Borg technology issue has already been dealt with in an earlier post. I forgot to mention that the baby was unborn, so that's my mistake. However, the timeline issue is exactly what I said- "Countdown' is in the original timeline, and the events of the movie are a different timeline (The writers of the movie mentioned that, to them, every change resulting from time travel results in a separate timeline- The original continues, we just don't see it in the series). STO takes place in the original timeline.

[Azurian]

What other reason would Nero have to attempt to attack the same person twice, once as an infant (look to be just born to) and second before he took command of the Enterprise other than he believed that killing Kirk would change things or whatever reason he has for going back :p

And preytell, how would killing Kirk bring back Romulus?

[Silverspar]

And preytell, how would killing Kirk bring back Romulus?

When you want revenge does it matter and if Kirk is seen as the keystone of the Federation, which he often is, would you care about bringing something back instead of bringing something else down you view as the cause?

[Azurian]

Heh, if I saw my planet destroyed and my family along with it, then acquiring Time-Travel abilities, I would go back to rescue them. More logical than venting my frustration out on someone that nothing to do with me. :p

[Silverspar]

Heh, if I saw my planet destroyed and my family along with it, then acquiring Time-Travel abilities, I would go back to rescue them, not vent my frustration out on someone that had no connection to me. :p

Since when has emotion and logic ever coincided? It's been established Nero wants revenge, I don't think anything else is on his mind.

[Lennon]

Does anyone have a link to the prequel comics or can you only buy them in stores?The first issue is sold out every where. You can pick up digital copy or wait for TBP to come out in a couple weeks. Or try going on ebay.

[Azurian]

Since when has emotion and logic ever coincided? It's been established Nero wants revenge, I don't think anything else is on his mind.

Well I'm sure someone there would've had it hit them, "Instead of going back 200 years to kill someone, why don't we go back 2 weeks are rescue everyone?"

To be honest, if that happened to me, I would've had a "doh" moment. :p

[Silverspar]

Well I'm sure someone there would've had it hit them, "Instead of going back 200 years to kill someone, why don't we go back 2 weeks are rescue everyone?"

To be honest, if that happened to me, I would've had a "doh" moment. :p

Yea, and how many people tried to stop Ahab :p

[LordDave]

Okay...since you've obviously seen the movie and know exactly what's going to happen....

We don't know what direction the movie will take... we don't even know what direction Cryptic is going to be taking with STO past the current timeline update of 2385. Who is to say that what happens in the movie will just eliminate TOS from the picture and not the rest of the series. Who is to say that any of the other series will even be affected by what happens in the movie.

I prefer to think that the "Everything you know about star trek is now wrong" is moreso based towards attracting newer viewers so that they don't think that it's still geeky.

Nope, it will. Why do you think they're calling this a "reboot"? Sure it'll have very similar people, but I am 100% certain that the events will be different.

I don't like how people are suggesting that the timelines got rewritten and ST11 takes place in another timeline, it's like Marvel having all those multiple universes for their comics.

Since little canon regarding the original crew before TOS, what's to say this is indeed the main timeline? After all the Enterprise surely could've gotten a refit and ended up looking like the TOS Enterprise.

Ummm... Abrhams said it, not us. You know, the director.

And preytell, how would killing Kirk bring back Romulus?
Pfft, easy. Balance of Terror.
Romulans devastate outposts with the desire to test their new weapon. If kirk hadn't exposed them, they would have found the Federation unable to defend against the new cloak and plasma torpedoes. They would have built more ships, flown into Federation space, and conquered it. A conquered Federation means a conquered Vulcan which means Red Matter for Nero to save Romulus.

.... What? No one else got it?

[Davros]

PLEASE NOTE: The "Star Trek XI" time line is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT time line than the "Next Generation" or "Original" time line. Star Trek Online will take place in the "Original" time line, as evidenced with the uniforms in the comic. However, considering Cryptic seems to be withholding time line updates for the game, something could happen either in Countdown #4 or the movie that brings Romulus back. Another possibility is that STO is in a slightly different timeline where Vulcan allowed Nero to use red matter and Romulus was never destroyed. Right now we don't know.

So: The destruction of Romulus is in the original time line, not the new time line.;)

I don’t know how accurate this is, but I’m not going to dispute it either way.

The vast majority of people that will play this game will be more casual in nature than the people who post on this forum, and will most likely not be too familiar nor will they care about all of these complicated time lines that many fans on this forum are confused over.

If an audience see a planet as iconic as the Romulan home world destroyed on the big screen and are then sent on a quest there in STO it’s going to be very confusing. Irrelevant of time lines or canon, if Romulus is not restored in the new movie then Cryptic may have no choice but to evaluate its position in STO.

[Azurian]

Ummm... Abrhams said it, not us. You know, the director.

Words that weren't spoken loud enough. The majority of people who heard of Star Trek will think this is part of the same timeline and not a parallel one. Unless Abrams himself specificially has it written in the movie that is the case.


Pfft, easy. Balance of Terror.
Romulans devastate outposts with the desire to test their new weapon. If kirk hadn't exposed them, they would have found the Federation unable to defend against the new cloak and plasma torpedoes. They would have built more ships, flown into Federation space, and conquered it. A conquered Federation means a conquered Vulcan which means Red Matter for Nero to save Romulus.

.... What? No one else got it?

Perhaps, but what's to say another Federation Captain could've stepped up?

But we should stop here, because sooner or later these "what ifs" will start getting us into arguements. So until Comic #4 and ST11 comes out, we shouldn't speculate too much.

[KirksOtherSon]

What silver said.
However, it's not going to affect the game. Why?
Because once Nero goes back in time, he changes all of history. Completely. As in "Everything you know about startrek is now wrong" kind of change. Romulus in that timeline is gone, but the romulus in the new timeline is ok.
And STO isn't following the new universe anyway, though I'm sure they'll try to incorporate it somehow.

Yes. It's a simple "timeline divergence creates alternative timeline" thing. Like the Mirror Universe. Even Stephen Hawking has alluded to such things (ummm, maybe that means it's not so simple). You don't change history, so much as you "spawn a new branch on the timeline tree" from the point of change.

You go back and shoot Hitler, you don't erase your own home timeline and its history , you shift over into a new timeline you've helped create, one where Hitler was killed (by you, as it turns out), and you live from the change point forward. That's the going theory as I know it, anyway.

My point here is that Abrams' movie characters will be following their New Trek timeline in any sequels Paramount creates, while STO follows directly out of the 40+ years of classic Trek history we already have.

As Dave says, STO will probably "cherry pick" suitable elements for the game from the New Trek timeline, to give us a Classic Trek take on anything cool which comes along, but yeah, we'll basically have two versions of Star Trek after the movie releases.

There's no truth to the rumor that all character avatars in Star Trek Online will have to wear beards after Abrams Trek releases ... ;)

I plan to check out both, and follow whichever version(s) I enjoy,

KOS

[KirksOtherSon]

A conquered Federation means a conquered Vulcan which means Red Matter for Nero to save Romulus.

.... What? No one else got it?

I laughed -- which means I'm even nerdier than previously believed! :D

Cheers,

KOS

[Hylanvahr]

Heh, if I saw my planet destroyed and my family along with it, then acquiring Time-Travel abilities, I would go back to rescue them. More logical than venting my frustration out on someone that nothing to do with me. :p

Logic means nothing if you get caught in a freak accident. As of last issue, *BIG #3 SPOILER* Nero and General Worf are about to have a showdown. */spoiler* Anything can happen. Shots exchanged, damage taken, a quantum singularity core goes haywire during the fight...

[Azurian]

Well of course, that happens when you only have a piece of the overall picture. Still, the plot around Nero is stupid. :p

[Hylanvahr]

Well of course, that happens when you only have a piece of the overall picture. Still, the plot around Nero is stupid. :p

Better or worse than Shinzon?

[JPJappic]

Nope, it will. Why do you think they're calling this a "reboot"? Sure it'll have very similar people, but I am 100% certain that the events will be different.

Ummm... Abrhams said it, not us. You know, the director.

Abrams and Co. have called it many things... a reboot.. re-imagining.... it doesn't 100% mean that they are scrapping everything and starting from scratch. For all we know they could just be modernizing everything and doing what Roddenberry couldn't do. And again... even if the TOS era is somewhat changed.. doesn't mean that TNG, DS9 or Voyager are affected by this. The only way to contradict that would be if they did something that totally contradicted one of those series. There's too much of a risk of doing a full reboot as I think the Star Trek fandom will be split in half by it. Half will like the movie... the other half will be appalled that Abrams had done such a thing. The real test for the movie will be to see how well it does after opening weekend. It's expected opening weekend will bring alot of money.. the second and third weeks will show who the real Trek fans are.. and how much they want to see it again.

However with that being said.. who knows how things will get repaired by the end of the movie.

I remain hopeful that the movie, as has been said by Abrams and Co., will be faithful to the other series and that they won't let us down. I will reserve my final judgment though until I see the end credits.

Better or worse than Shinzon?

Nemesis could have been a little better had it been a little bit longer. I also think that Sela should have been in the movie in some fashion. Would have tied it to the series in some regards.

[THORN74]

Ok now Im confused ;) ...........................I'll just have to wait till the movie comes out! :D

this is PRECISLY why i hate every time travel episode trek has ever done (including st:4 kirk saves the whales)

[THORN74]

Words that weren't spoken loud enough. The majority of people who heard of Star Trek will think this is part of the same timeline and not a parallel one. Unless Abrams himself specificially has it written in the movie that is the case.



Perhaps, but what's to say another Federation Captain could've stepped up?

But we should stop here, because sooner or later these "what ifs" will start getting us into arguements. So until Comic #4 and ST11 comes out, we shouldn't speculate too much.

the federation had other captians??!?!?!? when the hell did that happen?!?!?! :eek::D

[THORN74]

look everyone who is worried about what effect the new movie will have on the canon should read this (http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/).

Bob and Anthony talk Time Travel, canon, paradoxes, physics and more

Background: As a follow-up to our earlier ‘post November’ interview with Star Trek co-writer Bob Orci is the following conversation between Bob and TrekMovie.com editor Anthony Pascale. It is presented as a ‘conversation’ because it is more of a chat between two Trekkies diving deep down a nerdy rabbit hole, than a traditional interview. Understanding the issues discussed is not required to watch the movie or enjoy it, but is presented to answer the follow-up questions about how the film ‘fits’ with Trek and with science.

The subject of the discussion was how to reconcile a number of issues. Since day one with regards to this project, it has been stated that the new movie is not a ‘reboot’ like the recent Batman, Bond and Battlestar Galactica, but will fit within Trek canon. However, just by looking at the new trailer and certainly based on JJ Abrams four scene preview tour (see TrekMovie report), some things appear not to fit within canon. Or do they? Many have noted that the report in Entertainment Weekly revealing how the film’s villain Nero travels through time to attack the ship carrying James T. Kirk’s parents might somehow come into play. But if so, then there are implications related to Trek history, as well as real and ‘Trek’ science. And that is where this discussion begins.

Anthony: OK, now let’s get really into it. From the trailer, and certainly from the four scene preview, there is no doubt that things are different. Pike and Kirk are hanging out in a bar. The ship looks different. Kirk is on the Enterprise and not headed to the Farragut. People are seeing Romulans…things are different. Now it has been revealed in the Entertainment Weekly article that Nero goes back in time and attacks the Kelvin, and JJ also talked about this during his previews. So the big question is: Is the destruction of the Kelvin, the canon reason why everything is different?

Bob: It is the reason why some things are different, but not everything is different. Not everything is inconsistent with what might have actually happened, in canon. Some of the things that seem that they are totally different, I will argue, once the film comes out, fall well within what could have been the non-time travel version of this move.

Anthony: So, for example, Kirk is different, because his back story has totally changed, in that his parents…and all that. But you are saying that maybe Scotty or Spock’s back story would not be affected by that change?

Bob: Right.

Anthony: Does the time travel explain why the Enterprise looks different and why it is being built in Riverside Iowa?

Bob: Yes, and yes.

Anthony: OK, well then some fans will say ‘fair enough, alternate timeline, we are used to that, but that is not my Kirk, that is some other Kirk.’ So is this still our movie, or are we seeing some other version of Star Trek?

Bob: Well that depends on whether or not you believe in nature or nurture and how much you believe in, for lack of a better word, their souls. I would argue that for the characters, their true nature does not change. Our motto for this movie was ’same ship, different day




now everyone take a deep breath

[JPJappic]

look everyone who is worried about what effect the new movie will have on the canon should read this (http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/).

now everyone take a deep breath

This is exactly what i'm talking about. Thank you for showing this to us.

[Azurian]

Yep, that interview makes sence. This does open the opportunity for a New TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager down the road.

BTW, my opinon that Nero being a moron still holds. :p

the federation had other captians??!?!?!? when the hell did that happen?!?!?! :eek::D

You know. When a male Federation member and a female Federation get together........ and they ......... and that's how a Federation Captain is born. :D

[JPJappic]

Essentially what I take out of that article is that they're saying that Star Trek fans can choose to include the movie or not as part of the canon universe that already exists and that despite some of the changes that may be brought upon by the movie, it doesn't alter continuity as much as to say anything that happens after it is completely messed up.

[Opus_Penguin]

I have not read the comics yet, but from what I gather from everyone here who has, it is what I originally thought ... Romulus is destroyed in the original timeline, and Nero goes back changing the timeline in the new movie.

So this would mean in the ST:O timeline, Romulus would be destroyed since the original timeline continues as if nothing has changed (since the movie's past timeline would not impact the original one but act as a parallel timeline).

So again I ask ... What is the status of Romulus in the ST:O timeline? I am assuming we will not know until "Countdown" #4 is released, and Cryptic releases more of their timeline. Of course, I have not even asked about Vulcan as from the trailers it appears Vulcan is destroyed from the Romulan drilling device, but since it is in the alternate timeline it still should not impact the ST:O timeline.

[LordDave]

Essentially what I take out of that article is that they're saying that Star Trek fans can choose to include the movie or not as part of the canon universe that already exists and that despite some of the changes that may be brought upon by the movie, it doesn't alter continuity as much as to say anything that happens after it is completely messed up.

That's an interesting idea.
If the movie tanks, they can easily say "oh, we're going to ignore the continuity and continue with another timeline. (or the original timeline)

[JPJappic]

So again I ask ... What is the status of Romulus in the ST:O timeline? I am assuming we will not know until "Countdown" #4 is released, and Cryptic releases more of their timeline. Of course, I have not even asked about Vulcan as from the trailers it appears Vulcan is destroyed from the Romulan drilling device, but since it is in the alternate timeline it still should not impact the ST:O timeline.

Yeah we probably won't know until the 2387 timeline update UNLESS Romulus is somehow fixed in the movie.

That's an interesting idea.
If the movie tanks, they can easily say "oh, we're going to ignore the continuity and continue with another timeline. (or the original timeline)

As i've already mentioned.. it'll be the 2nd and 3rd weeks of its release that will label this movie a success or failure.

[Voorhees]

No time travel is not rumored its facts. A romulan from the 24th century goes back in time to destroy vulcan. Spock from the future goes back as well to try to stop him which kirk from that timeline gets involved.

[Aslan_chShran]

I hope Romulus is indeed gone. That would explain the lack of a playable Romulan race in STO - also, as funny as it sounds, KNOWING that Romulus is blown up and the Empire suffers yet another grevious blow after Nemesis actually makes me want to watch the Romulans MORE when I'm re-watching Star Trek episodes, because I'm more interested in them as a race knowing what's going to happen to them in their arrogance.

Also, I mentioned Data being around during STO well before these prequel comics, and I'd like to go on record that I was right... Captain Data, in charge of the starship Enterprise woot!

[ronaldheld]

Might there still be some Romulan vessels around?

[Silverspar]

Might there still be some Romulan vessels around?

My wager is the Klingons swoop in and start taking over portions of the Romulan Empire, like they did in All Good Things.. before the ramining Romulan military can put a halt to that expansion from the Klingons. The Federation condemns the act, the Kingons refuse to give up what they took and instead back out of the Khitomer Accords, and declare themselves no longer allies with the Federation.

The remaining Romulans are probably left to rebuild and reform their government on a new planet, and of course, once that is taken care of the Romulans, feeling slighted and insulted by the Klingons and offended the Federation didn't stop them probably start an aggressive expansion when the Romulan expansion comes out.

[lokan]

And preytell, how would killing Kirk bring back Romulus?

You're thinking entirely too much. All you need to know about the new movie is Kirk and Uhura making innuendos about oral sex and lots and lots of pretty explosions. It's going to be great! :rolleyes:

[JMD10222]

My wager is the Klingons swoop in and start taking over portions of the Romulan Empire, like they did in All Good Things.. before the ramining Romulan military can put a halt to that expansion from the Klingons. The Federation condemns the act, the Kingons refuse to give up what they took and instead back out of the Khitomer Accords, and declare themselves no longer allies with the Federation.

The remaining Romulans are probably left to rebuild and reform their government on a new planet, and of course, once that is taken care of the Romulans, feeling slighted and insulted by the Klingons and offended the Federation didn't stop them probably start an aggressive expansion when the Romulan expansion comes out.

I can see that or, if they go the way im thinking and add the Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion ect as members/allies of either the Federation of the Klingon empire (to keep the sides competitive and not add to many factions and kill the competitive nature of STO). The Romulans and Klingons HATE each other and if the Klingons attack the remnants of the Romulan empire, I can see the Romulans siding with the Federation. The Romulan Star Empire has been destroyed, but the Imperial Romulan State headed by Empress Donotra is intact, and very much on friendly terms with the Federation. It will be interesting to see what happens, but its alot of fun thinking of the possibilities.;)

[Silverspar]

I can see that or, if they go the way im thinking and add the Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion ect as members/allies of either the Federation of the Klingon empire (to keep the sides competitive and not add to many factions and kill the competitive nature of STO). The Romulans and Klingons HATE each other and if the Klingons attack the remnants of the Romulan empire, I can see the Romulans siding with the Federation. The Romulan Star Empire has been destroyed, but the Imperial Romulan State headed by Empress Donotra is intact, and very much on friendly terms with the Federation. It will be interesting to see what happens, but its alot of fun thinking of the possibilities.;)

As a long time PvPer, I can safely say, two sides to any factional war is boring. I can handle it at the start, but plans need to go into motion for creating a third and possibly forth faction independant of the other two, with the possibility that factional fleets able to form alliances with othr factional fleets in temporary truces and so forth. This would create a more interesting PvP game, as the current dynamic of only two sides against one another really doesn't produce that element needed of something major happening and occuring to cause greater issues.

[fatesoasis]

OK, there seems to be some contradicting views on the destruction of Romulus, so here is what I know:

*WARNING! COUNTDOWN SPOILERS AND MINOR MOVIE SPOILERS!*

So, from what I have seen so far, Nero is a Romulan Miner who finds out that the Hobus star will go supernova and destroy his home world, Romulus. Nero then leaves for Romulus to warn them, but the high council ignores him. He then goes to Vulcan to get red matter to stop the supernova but the Vulcan High Council prohibits him from it. He then leaves to help evacuate Romulus but it's to late: the shock wave hits and completely destroys Romulus-with his wife and child on it. So Nero goes nuts and modifies his ship with Borg technology to turn it into the Narada that we see in the movie. To help destroy the Hobus supernova, Spock uses the "Jellyfish",create by Geordi LaForge. They are then somehow transported into the past (details on this are sketchy as it is from Countdown #4 which will not be released until April 1). Then Nero attacks the USS Kelvin and the time line is changed.

PLEASE NOTE: The "Star Trek XI" time line is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT time line than the "Next Generation" or "Original" time line. Star Trek Online will take place in the "Original" time line, as evidenced with the uniforms in the comic. However, considering Cryptic seems to be withholding time line updates for the game, something could happen either in Countdown #4 or the movie that brings Romulus back. Another possibility is that STO is in a slightly different timeline where Vulcan allowed Nero to use red matter and Romulus was never destroyed. Right now we don't know.

So: The destruction of Romulus is in the original time line, not the new time line.;)

Possible Movie Spoilers read at your own risk

THE STAR TREK 11 TIME LINE IS NOT DIFFERENT even if they tell us it is. There is far more evidence to the contrary.

Spock and nero go back in time where nero will change the history of the federation by destroying several ships and a planet in the past. This will completely alter the Star Trek time line as we know it creating the "reboot" theme of the movie. My problem with this is that they are making this reboot in cannon. They may say that it is an alternate time line but that is ridiculous. When Kirk met the guardian and McCoy jumped into the gate the enterprise disappeared because their time line had been altered. When the Borg sphere went back in time in First Contact earth appeared to have been assimilated not because the enterprise had been drawn into some other dimension but because they had been caught in a temporal wake thus protected from the changes in the timeline. (The only real example of this alternate time line stuff is in Back To The Future 2 when Doc draws it for Marty on the chalk board, but even in that film old Biff Still is able to travel to the future and put the Delorian back where he found it. So that doesn't work either)

So at the end of this movie when J.J. changes everything that was in our forty year long story remember that he also placed it in cannon and destroyed every story we loved right along with it.

The different trailers that are out for the new film show two different planets being destroyed. One by a shock wave and one by implosion. That means that one is Romulas and the other is a desert planet. I can only think of one desert planet that an angry Romulan would want to destroy. Vulcan. If that happens in Kirk's time think about all the characters that have been lost. I'm not angry that J.J. is doing Star Trek I'm broken hearted that the Star Trek I've followed had to be completely destroyed to make it.

example: You could give me the nicest coat in the world but if you made it out of my mom I would be broken hearted. No matter how cool that coat is, the fact that my mother was destroyed to make it would always be my first thought.

The only thing that can save this for me is if I leave the theater believing that everything we have seen before could still happen after this movie ends. (even though the enterprise looks different)

[Silverspar]

There is a problem with that belief. Often the majority view if form the perspective of Back to the Future, that even the slightest change in the timeline creates a completely new track. That I don't buy, as long as the elements are able to properly fall into place, it doesn't matter how they fall into place, but as long as they get there and things are explained properly. In that way I think of time as more of a river, that the way the bends and ebbs in the river may change but the outcome is always the same, it eventually reaches it's original destination.

[Manx]

The alternate timeline idea comes from a particular school of thought within quantum physics that says if you go left, there is another you that goes right; and at that point, a new universe is created. This theory presents a convenient way of getting around the whole temporal paradox thing. Changes in history simply make yet more universes, rather than overwrite existing ones. After all, we are products of our timelines, erase them and erase ourselves; but if we don't exist then we can't change the past. So we do exist, so we can, so we don't, so we can't... etc.

In Trek canon, they discovered that the parallel universe theory was true when Worf started jumping from one to another in TNG 'Parallels'.

Therefore, the reboot universe must be a parallel timeline.

...

Well it made me feel better anyway :p

[47Wasps]

Therefore, the reboot universe must be a parallel timeline....
Well it made me feel better anyway :p

I support that particular line of thought.

The regular time of the last 40 years must continue to exist,and the events of the new film are an altered timeline.
The way I see it,if the regular timeline is completely altered by the Star Trek XI,then Nero never loses Romulus,he never loses his mind,and he never goes back in time,thusly preventing the events of the film from occurring,which causes him to lose Romulas,lose his mind,and go back in time,thusly preventing himself from losing his mind and going back in time.(etc,etc)
Instead,he does go back in time,and becomes part of an alternate timeline,while the regular timeline is unaffected by his temporal meddling.

[JPJappic]

I again, like i've done in other threads like to post some comments made by Bob Orci in the following interview.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/

Anthony: OK, now let’s get really into it. From the trailer, and certainly from the four scene preview, there is no doubt that things are different. Pike and Kirk are hanging out in a bar. The ship looks different. Kirk is on the Enterprise and not headed to the Farragut. People are seeing Romulans…things are different. Now it has been revealed in the Entertainment Weekly article that Nero goes back in time and attacks the Kelvin, and JJ also talked about this during his previews. So the big question is: Is the destruction of the Kelvin, the canon reason why everything is different?

Bob: It is the reason why some things are different, but not everything is different. Not everything is inconsistent with what might have actually happened, in canon. Some of the things that seem that they are totally different, I will argue, once the film comes out, fall well within what could have been the non-time travel version of this movie.

Anthony: OK, well then some fans will say ‘fair enough, alternate timeline, we are used to that, but that is not my Kirk, that is some other Kirk.’ So is this still our movie, or are we seeing some other version of Star Trek?

Bob: Well that depends on whether or not you believe in nature or nurture and how much you believe in, for lack of a better word, their souls. I would argue that for the characters, their true nature does not change. Our motto for this movie was ’same ship, different day.’

Anthony: So then is time travel, and the alternative timeline, just a way to do a BSG-style reboot, while still remaining canon?

Bob: In some one else’s hands, maybe, but, again, much of what you will see could conform to classic canon, and thus we were not relying it as an excuse to change everything.

This leads me to believe that despite some of the minor changes that take place that the movie CAN be part of the existing star trek timeline. Albeit that will be up to the viewer's discretion.

[THORN74]

Possible Movie Spoilers read at your own risk

THE STAR TREK 11 TIME LINE IS NOT DIFFERENT even if they tell us it is. There is far more evidence to the contrary.

Spock and nero go back in time where nero will change the history of the federation by destroying several ships and a planet in the past. This will completely alter the Star Trek time line as we know it creating the "reboot" theme of the movie. My problem with this is that they are making this reboot in cannon. They may say that it is an alternate time line but that is ridiculous. When Kirk met the guardian and McCoy jumped into the gate the enterprise disappeared because their time line had been altered. When the Borg sphere went back in time in First Contact earth appeared to have been assimilated not because the enterprise had been drawn into some other dimension but because they had been caught in a temporal wake thus protected from the changes in the timeline. (The only real example of this alternate time line stuff is in Back To The Future 2 when Doc draws it for Marty on the chalk board, but even in that film old Biff Still is able to travel to the future and put the Delorian back where he found it. So that doesn't work either)

So at the end of this movie when J.J. changes everything that was in our forty year long story remember that he also placed it in cannon and destroyed every story we loved right along with it.

The different trailers that are out for the new film show two different planets being destroyed. One by a shock wave and one by implosion. That means that one is Romulas and the other is a desert planet. I can only think of one desert planet that an angry Romulan would want to destroy. Vulcan. If that happens in Kirk's time think about all the characters that have been lost. I'm not angry that J.J. is doing Star Trek I'm broken hearted that the Star Trek I've followed had to be completely destroyed to make it.

example: You could give me the nicest coat in the world but if you made it out of my mom I would be broken hearted. No matter how cool that coat is, the fact that my mother was destroyed to make it would always be my first thought.

The only thing that can save this for me is if I leave the theater believing that everything we have seen before could still happen after this movie ends. (even though the enterprise looks different)

ok first, "they" arent making anything canon. there isnt any "they" that sit in a room deciding what is and isnt canon of a particular story/show/creation. In very general terms canon is established/accepted official history of a fictional universe, it is usally limited to the original medium. So, in Star Trek's case anything put on screen tv or movie IS CANON

second, there is real modern scientific theroy (quantum mechanics or string theroy if forget which) that postulates that for every decision we make an alternate-timeline is create for the choices we didnt make, thus creating a braching alternate universe for every conceiveable outcome of everry choice everyone ever makes in any time (past, preasent, or future). so the idea the new movie is playing out in an alternate time line is plasueable, as it the fact that the original timeline would continue un altered.

[JMD10222]

ok first, "they" arent making anything canon. there isnt any "they" that sit in a room deciding what is and isnt canon of a particular story/show/creation. In very general terms canon is established/accepted official history of a fictional universe, it is usally limited to the original medium. So, in Star Trek's case anything put on screen tv or movie IS CANON

second, there is real modern scientific theroy (quantum mechanics or string theroy if forget which) that postulates that for every decision we make an alternate-timeline is create for the choices we didnt make, thus creating a braching alternate universe for every conceiveable outcome of everry choice everyone ever makes in any time (past, preasent, or future). so the idea the new movie is playing out in an alternate time line is plasueable, as it the fact that the original timeline would continue un altered.


Perfect example to back you on this is the TNG episode "Parallels".

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Parallels_%28episode%29

[Silverspar]

Perfect example to back you on this is the TNG episode "Parallels".

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Parallels_%28episode%29

However, that exact same episode also shows that timeline doesn't flow exactly as we woudl expect to the same way twice. Even though Worf was returned to his timeline, where he was originally surprised for a birthday at the beginning, he did not have a surprise party at the end.

Again, time is not a railroad track that Back to the Future would have us beleive where any change at any point results in a way different outcome, time is more like throwing a pebble in the pond and even a course change in the river will still have it curve backa nd heading towards it's final destination. You would have to cause massive destruction to the timeline to completely and irrevocably change it, basically. Such as the death of key figures and the like.

[JMD10222]

However, that exact same episode also shows that timeline doesn't flow exactly as we woudl expect to the same way twice. Even though Worf was returned to his timeline, where he was originally surprised for a birthday at the beginning, he did not have a surprise party at the end.

Again, time is not a railroad track that Back to the Future would have us beleive where any change at any point results in a way different outcome, time is more like throwing a pebble in the pond and even a course change in the river will still have it curve backa nd heading towards it's final destination. You would have to cause massive destruction to the timeline to completely and irrevocably change it, basically. Such as the death of key figures and the like.


Good point sir.(I had forgot the ending) I stand corrected;)

[-Brett-]

[snip]

Here's an idea. Instead of rumors, trailers, and wild speculation, why not actually watch the movie, and see what actually happens before decided how or if it fits into the current continuity?

[fatesoasis]

Parrallels

In Parallels Worf was jumping between dimensions not traveling through time. The producers writers actors and director have all said that the new movie deals with time travel not alternate universes. Going to the mirror universe is not the same thing as going to to the past. Now the mirror universe may be similar to our universe but it is an alternate universe. The problem with time travel is instead of having two different universes emerge you are erasing one from existence by changing it's past and replacing it with another one(Marty's hand begins to dissappear at the enchantment under the sea dance.). Now one could argue that a universe will still exist that is almost identical to ours. And that is true. But...

Example:
A.)in the "real" star trek universe Picard woke up on time like he does every day.
B.)In another universe Picard over slept.

All though universe B. is identical to universe A. in every way except for the fact that Picard overslept it is still not the universe that we have followed for forty years. That universe is destroyed by the outcomes of Nero's time travel. In the episode Parrallels the whole point is that even though there are an infinite number of parrallel universes Worf only belongs in the universe we grew up watching. (If you read DC comics it's the same thing as the infinite earths sagas or the 52. Although some of the other "earths" are really cool there is only one earth prime.)

So the only way to have this story not effect the Next Gen, Voyager, and Ds9 is if Nero and old Spock not only traveled through time but also traveled to another dimension before altering the time line.

Does your head hurt yet? lol

[Silverspar]

Parrallels

In Parallels Worf was jumping between dimensions not traveling through time. The producers writers actors and director have all said that the new movie deals with time travel not alternate universes. Going to the mirror universe is not the same thing as going to to the past. Now the mirror universe may be similar to our universe but it is an alternate universe. The problem with time travel is instead of having two different universes emerge you are erasing one from existence by changing it's past and replacing it with another one(Marty's hand begins to dissappear at the enchantment under the sea dance.). Now one could argue that a universe will still exist that is almost identical to ours. And that is true. But...

Example:
A.)in the "real" star trek universe Picard woke up on time like he does every day.
B.)In another universe Picard over slept.

All though universe B. is identical to universe A. in every way except for the fact that Picard overslept it is still not the universe that we have followed for forty years. That universe is destroyed by the outcomes of Nero's time travel. In the episode Parrallels the whole point is that even though there are an infinite number of parrallel universes Worf only belongs in the universe we grew up watching. (If you read DC comics it's the same thing as the infinite earths sagas or the 52. Although some of the other "earths" are really cool there is only one earth prime.)

So the only way to have this story not effect the Next Gen, Voyager, and Ds9 is if Nero and old Spock not only traveled through time but also traveled to another dimension before altering the time line.

Does your head hurt yet? lol

Again, the Star Trek universe does not follow the Back to the Future logic, so really trying to apply it to Star Trek is an effort in futility. We have plenty of canon evidence throughout Star Trek dealing with time travel that events continued on their merry way with only a minor hiccup to things as they occurred. Nothing more nothing less. It isn't erasing anything, it is changing how they occurred and what ordered they occur, but captain Kirk is still going to go on to become the greatest starship captain ever known, Spock will still go on to try to instigate the Romulan Reunification movement, and Doctor McCoy will still become the crotchey old admiral we know and love and see at the beginning of Encounter at Farpoint.

There was no erasing done, no major changes to the timeline. In fact, things were even contradicted by the professors original statement, that his life was changed, but only slightly, when he instilled confidence in his father as a teenager. Instead of him being the weakling in the future he is well off and he sodl his book ideas and such, but all the major events did not change, as long as the major players were still in, and they still happened relatively speaking to the outcome the timeline is not going to drastically change at all.

As long as Kirk still captain's the Enterprise, as long as he still get's his crew, as long as the Enterprise, Kirk and his crew still go down in history as the greatest in the history of Starfleet then there really isn't much change at all, just how the events occurred are different, and even then it might be an extra bend here and a different turn there but still results in the Enterprise sailing into the history that we all know.

[ronaldheld]

I beleive this will be a new timeline from which they will go forward in the 23d century.

[Manx]

No. Just no.

Every possible outcome of an event happens; it just does so in its own parallel universe. That is the inescapable consequence of this particular theory of quantum physics being true; which, in Star Trek, is the case as seen in TNG 'Parallels'. Time travel does not change this.

As a result of Spock and Nero travelling through time, there is a universe where the events of the new film occur, there is a universe where Nero went off back to Romulan space to prevent the star blowing up, there is a universe where they both decided not to meddle and just went and hid somewhere out of history's way, etc.

My understanding is that their travel through time was an accident, so there is probably an infinite number of universes where they showed up in completely different time periods and none of the events of the film take place. As well as some where they just vanished and were never heard from again.

[Strandberg]

In the upcoming Star Trek film it is widely believed that Romulus is destroyed in the late 24th century, assuming this is the case how do you think STO will approach this event?

I can appreciate that from a continuity and canon prospective the new film is more of a re-imagination rather than a direct prequel. So do you think Romulus will have been destroyed in STO and if so what will the political and economic ramifications be? Do you believe that the new movie should be discounted from original Star Trek canon?

I would prefer this thread didn’t become to burdened with the canon side of things, but rather focus on a more speculative approach for instance how the loss of a significant home world would affect the dynamic of the STO universe.

I think the new Star Trek movie is probably the sadest Star Trek product ever made on any platform.
Boiling soupe on an old bone - reminds me of the James Bond jr. cartoon

[Manx]

For the sake of clarity I should add that the 'old' Star Trek universe would most likely be one where they just vanished. They have been removed from the timeline; and so, for all intents and purposes, are dead to that reality.

[Nagilum_Drone]

We could look at this from the LOST view of time travel. "Whatever happened, happened." You can't change it and time has a habit of course correcting to ensure everything turns out the way it was suppose to.

So if Nero goes back in time, then he always went back in time. If Romulus is destroyed then it was always destroyed. There is nothing in Trek that says the Romulus we are familiar with was the original Romulus.

I say let's just enjoy the movie without thinking it's destroying everything we've enjoyed up to now.

Nagilum

[Elta_and_Zletha]

When Romulus is destroyed, it wold cripple the empire which the Klingons take advantage of and invade Romulan space.
This seems to be constant with what ST:O is putting out.
The Federation greatly disapproved the Klingons overtaking the Romulans, which would explain why the two factions are not on good terms with each other now (2409).

Klingons... so mean! =(

[Silverspar]

I think the new Star Trek movie is probably the sadest Star Trek product ever made on any platform.
Boiling soupe on an old bone - reminds me of the James Bond jr. cartoon

It's so wonderful hat this opinion keeps cropping up from people who have yet to see the movie :rolleyes:

[RogueEnterprise]

I've only read through the first comic, but being as though I think they are considered "official" prequels to the Star Trek film coming out in May, I'm definitely interested in if Cryptic is considering it as Fact in relation to the game.

[Silverspar]

I've only read through the first comic, but being as though I think they are considered "official" prequels to the Star Trek film coming out in May, I'm definitely interested in if Cryptic is considering it as Fact in relation to the game.

I think it's safe to say that the prequel comics, being that they are official canon (a first for Star Trek to) is being considered. Everything that is going on in the timeline now, Picard becoming an ambassador to Vulcan, Data becoming the captain of the Enterprise and so forth, is actually in that comic.

[Vuk]

Again, the Star Trek universe does not follow the Back to the Future logic, so really trying to apply it to Star Trek is an effort in futility. We have plenty of canon evidence throughout Star Trek dealing with time travel that events continued on their merry way with only a minor hiccup to things as they occurred. Nothing more nothing less. It isn't erasing anything, it is changing how they occurred and what ordered they occur, but captain Kirk is still going to go on to become the greatest starship captain ever known, Spock will still go on to try to instigate the Romulan Reunification movement, and Doctor McCoy will still become the crotchey old admiral we know and love and see at the beginning of Encounter at Farpoint.

There was no erasing done, no major changes to the timeline. In fact, things were even contradicted by the professors original statement, that his life was changed, but only slightly, when he instilled confidence in his father as a teenager. Instead of him being the weakling in the future he is well off and he sodl his book ideas and such, but all the major events did not change, as long as the major players were still in, and they still happened relatively speaking to the outcome the timeline is not going to drastically change at all.

As long as Kirk still captain's the Enterprise, as long as he still get's his crew, as long as the Enterprise, Kirk and his crew still go down in history as the greatest in the history of Starfleet then there really isn't much change at all, just how the events occurred are different, and even then it might be an extra bend here and a different turn there but still results in the Enterprise sailing into the history that we all know.
Agreed , the series Enterprise is replet with time paradoxs and timeline distruptions , but the end result is the birht of the Federation with Archer. The bottom line is the more things change the more they stay the same . It seems that this series is more about pre-ordain outcomes than the path taken. This is Sci-Fi after all and the possiblities are endless.

[Veronw]

Yes, but I had thought that in one of the Ask Cryptics they had stated that there would eventually (possibly) be a Romulan faction added to the game? Presuming that the Klingons invade a supremely weakened Romulan Star Empire, is it just going to be a small remnant faction that calls itself the Star Empire? Are there just no more Romulans? Its like saying there are no more Borg, there has to be some evil empire bent upon choatic destructon while still having a rich backstory...

[Silverspar]

Yes, but I had thought that in one of the Ask Cryptics they had stated that there would eventually (possibly) be a Romulan faction added to the game? Presuming that the Klingons invade a supremely weakened Romulan Star Empire, is it just going to be a small remnant faction that calls itself the Star Empire? Are there just no more Romulans? Its like saying there are no more Borg, there has to be some evil empire bent upon choatic destructon while still having a rich backstory...

The destruction of Romulus does not mean it would be impossible for the Romulan faction to appear at a later date. It was obvious Cryptic was following the events of "All Good Things..." from the get go, which is the canon happening for the Star Trek universe when they stated the Klingons and Federations were no longer allies. It just makes sense really, but doesn't negate that the Romulans would start a rebelliona nd uprising at a later date and kick the Klingons out of their space again.

[Veronw]

Fair enough, I suppose the Romulans would indeed stage a heck of a rebellion against the Klingons, and with the Klingons at war with the Federation, they would be less likely to support the garrisons posted in old Romulan space.. lol supposei should have no worries then

[Vuk]

The destruction of Romulus does not mean it would be impossible for the Romulan faction to appear at a later date. It was obvious Cryptic was following the events of "All Good Things..." from the get go, which is the canon happening for the Star Trek universe when they stated the Klingons and Federations were no longer allies. It just makes sense really, but doesn't negate that the Romulans would start a rebelliona nd uprising at a later date and kick the Klingons out of their space again.


You're of course assuming that the Klingons have left any Romulans in the territory they have conquored , which from what I've read is not the way they do things . You can't start a rebellion if there is no population to hide amoung ? First rule of any anti -insurgence campaign would be to remove any population that could be used as cover for any insurgence.

[Veronw]

What, do they just execute them all? Thats hundreds of millions of people they are shoving into tin cans and moving around...

[Silverspar]

You're of course assuming that the Klingons have left any Romulans in the territory they have conquored , which from what I've read is not the way they do things . You can't start a rebellion if there is no population to hide amoung ? First rule of any anti -insurgence campaign would be to remove any population that could be used as cover for any insurgence.

I would assume, during the chaos, the Klingons will take a goodly portion of Romulan space, everywhere from their border to maybe half or even 2/3rds of their terriotry, including possibly the space Romulus use to be in, until someone like Donatra finally get's the Romulan fleet reorganized and puts a stop to the advancement of the Klingons.

[Sckullzy]

I’d say the game will definitely tie in with the movie considering they’re wearing the STO uniforms in the comic.

[ronaldheld]

Lots of Romulans left on other planets in the (former) empire,as well as fleets of ships.

[Mjoellnir]

Okay, I will try to get together what I read so far in Countdown, interviews and reviews in short form since there seems to be a lot of confusion.
Who doesn't want to know shouldn't continue reading.


In our prime universe Romulus was destroyed and Spock and Nero got sucked into a black hole when Spock tried to save the rest of the quadrant. Nero wants to destroy everybody (Vulcan first) because he thinks that they let the Romulans die on purpose and had his ship upgraded with Borg technology in a secret base. They emerge in front of the ship where Kirk's father is commander and Nero destroys it even though Kirk senior is able to save most of the crew including his pregnant wife. This action creates an alternate timeline, where Kirk starts out as a highly intelligent ruffian instead of being a model officer. The design of the Enterprise changes too possibly because the fight with the borg-enhanced Narada showed that they have still much to learn. I have no idea where Spock and Nero are in the time until Kirk is an adult, but it seems that when Kirk is on the Enterprise Nero again tries to destroy Vulcan. In the trailer it looks like he's successful. Until now I have found no information that Romulus is saved in the movie. In fact it's pretty impossible because that would collapse the timeline they are already planning two sequels in.




The most important question for me is something else. The commander of the vault said that they wanted to upgrade the whole Romulan fleet with borg technology. Firing while cloaked, self-reparing hulls etc. The Narada a simple enhanced mining vessel could destroy a whole Klingon fleet. What if they upgrade some remaining warbirds the same way? Why are those author's unable to think? The Romulans had the whole time the necessary weaponry to conquer everyone but didn't? And now their home planet is destroyed and they want to use it? Ouch. What will the Federation do? Deploy ablative hull armor and transphasic torpedoes to all ships?
On an unrelated note, I believe Taris will rule what's left of the empire in STO. She's searching that sword that would make a fine replacement for the spear Nero took from the praetor.

[USS_Parallax]

First off this doesn't have to be a hugely affected timeline. Sure, maybe some things are different but for all we know basically most everything else could be still the same. The Enterprise-D's adventures and all.
Shows greatly tend to ignore the Butterfly Effect (where even the slightest change will drastically altar events in the future). This movie might as well. So just because some guy goes into the past it doesn't mean Worf didn't marry Jadzia, Data didn't die, Tasha didn't die, etc etc. Everything could pretty much be the same except for a few key parts.


The only thing that might not fit that I could think of is the discovery of Romulans before they were meant to be discovered and Spock knowing his older self. This has various ways of being explained though.





The most important question for me is something else. The commander of the vault said that they wanted to upgrade the whole Romulan fleet with borg technology. Firing while cloaked, self-reparing hulls etc. The Narada a simple enhanced mining vessel could destroy a whole Klingon fleet. What if they upgrade some remaining warbirds the same way? Why are those author's unable to think? The Romulans had the whole time the necessary weaponry to conquer everyone but didn't? And now their home planet is destroyed and they want to use it? Ouch. What will the Federation do? Deploy ablative hull armor and transphasic torpedoes to all ships?
On an unrelated note, I believe Taris will rule what's left of the empire in STO. She's searching that sword that would make a fine replacement for the spear Nero took from the praetor.

For all we know their Borg tech was built directly out of Borg tech, meaning maybe they couldn't reproduce it very well which would limit it's use. And I wouldn't call a few dozen Bird of Prey's a good Fleet. BoPs aren't exactly the strongest things out there. And I doubt Nero's ship is actually as strong as a Borg Cube. It conveyed power for sure but I doubt it could survive against a proper fleet.

[Mjoellnir]

First off this doesn't have to be a hugely affected timeline. Sure, maybe some things are different but for all we know basically most everything else could be still the same. The Enterprise-D's adventures and all.
Shows greatly tend to ignore the Butterfly Effect (where even the slightest change will drastically altar events in the future). This movie might as well. So just because some guy goes into the past it doesn't mean Worf didn't marry Jadzia, Data didn't die, Tasha didn't die, etc etc. Everything could pretty much be the same except for a few key parts.

The only thing that might not fit that I could think of is the discovery of Romulans before they were meant to be discovered and Spock knowing his older self. This has various ways of being explained though.

The technology jump with the 1701-Enterprise too will have consequences in later times. Personally I'm happy that they say it's a parallel universe. I'm just not happy with the way they left ours behind.

For all we know their Borg tech was built directly out of Borg tech, meaning maybe they couldn't reproduce it very well which would limit it's use. And I wouldn't call a few dozen Bird of Prey's a good Fleet. BoPs aren't exactly the strongest things out there. And I doubt Nero's ship is actually as strong as a Borg Cube. It conveyed power for sure but I doubt it could survive against a proper fleet.

It's certainly not as strong as a cube, but as strong as the Scimitar (without thalaron) while being originally build as a simple mining ship. Plus commander D'Spal says: "We retrofitted Borg technology and applied it to Romulan designs. It will give our surviving fleet superior warp, cloaking and sensor capabilities beyond the wildest dreams of the Federation."
That doesn't sound like she's giving away everything she has to enhance a small mining vessel.

[Silverspar]

The technology jump with the 1701-Enterprise too will have consequences in later times. Personally I'm happy that they say it's a parallel universe. I'm just not happy with the way they left ours behind.



It's certainly not as strong as a cube, but as strong as the Scimitar (without thalaron) while being originally build as a simple mining ship. Plus commander D'Spal says: "We retrofitted Borg technology and applied it to Romulan designs. It will give our surviving fleet superior warp, cloaking and sensor capabilities beyond the wildest dreams of the Federation."
That doesn't sound like she's giving away everything she has to enhance a small mining vessel.

They don't say it's a parelell universe and it won't have any consequences either. In fact the only real claim they make is it's a time travel story. This parellel statement is fan belief. Fact is, Star Trek, throughout the ages, has done time travel, and time travel at any time has never impacted the outcome of history as long as key figures were not lost. Doesn't matter when or where Captain Kirk became Captain, as long as he becomes Captain.

[Mjoellnir]

They don't say it's a parelell universe and it won't have any consequences either. In fact the only real claim they make is it's a time travel story. This parellel statement is fan belief. Fact is, Star Trek, throughout the ages, has done time travel, and time travel at any time has never impacted the outcome of history as long as key figures were not lost. Doesn't matter when or where Captain Kirk became Captain, as long as he becomes Captain.

Please read it again. http://startrek11.blogspot.com/2008/12/orci-talks-star-trek-canon.html

Some examples:

"Anthony: So what happens with the destruction of the Kelvin is the creation of an alternative timeline, but what happens to the prime timeline after Nero leaves it? Does it continue or does it wink out of existence once he goes back and creates this new timeline.
Bob: It continues. According to the most successful, most tested scientific theory ever, quantum mechanics, it continues."

"Anthony: But elder Spock and Nero come from the last known Star Trek timeline, which is the post-Nemesis, Next Generation era, right?
Bob: Right, that is where they are starting, yes.

Anthony: And that timeline lives on after they leave?
Bob: Yes."

[Strandberg]

Coming this fall:

Terminator junior

- when arnold was just a vacum cleaner

[USS_Parallax]

What technology jump?

[Mjoellnir]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701)%2C_remastered.jpg

=> http://www.moviereporter.net/news_photos/0000/3745/enterpriseNews.jpg

At least it looks like a butt-ugly technology jump. Dual emplacement phasers, photon torpedo launcher, deflector like the movie refit just uglier, bigger warp engines.....

[USS_Parallax]

That's not a tech jump or anything. It's simply a reimagining.

[Voorhees]

Nero goes back to destroy vulcan and spock goes back to stop him, why he is trying to destroy vulcan no idea but we will have to see the movie to find out why lol

[Mjoellnir]

That's not a tech jump or anything. It's simply a reimagining.

Well, there was a theory that this Enterprise was better because the Kelvin was destroyed so easily that Starfleet decided to improve its designs. If that's right or if they just wanted to mock Jefferies' design is something we'll know for sure after the movie.

Nero goes back to destroy vulcan and spock goes back to stop him, why he is trying to destroy vulcan no idea but we will have to see the movie to find out why lol

COUNTDOWN-SPOILER! (That can already be read several times in this thread.)

They don't go back intentionally, they get both accidentally sucked into a black hole that Spock created while saving the universe. Nero is wants to destroy Vulcan because Spock couldn't save the universe before Romulus was destroyed along with his wife and unborn son. The Vulcan government didn't want to give the Romulans the necessary technology because it would have been a really great weapon of mass destruction.

[Silverspar]

I did read it, and he is wrong, and they refuted his statement later. At the time when it was stated, he was stating to to make the haters shut up, the official line is that it's a time travel movie, not a paralell universe.

[Mjoellnir]

I did read it, and he is wrong, and they refuted his statement later. At the time when it was stated, he was stating to to make the haters shut up, the official line is that it's a time travel movie, not a paralell universe.

Interesting, could you give me a source for that?

[Silverspar]

Any of the latest interviews and reviews. They were calling it an alternate timeline and universe right up till it was revealed it was a time travel movie.

[Profedius]

Even if the home world is destroyed there would still be enough colonies and ships to keep the empire going in some form. I recall that when the Romulans returned in TNG they reported that they had been busy on the other side of their empire. I might have missed it but I do not recall hearing anything as to someone reaching the other side of their territory or as to how big it is. I haven’t read the comic so maybe I am missing something, but I hardly think any one event or a small number of events could lead to the downfall of a large space fairing empire.

[Sckullzy]

When Rome fell the satellite kingdoms it left behind grew into what we know now as western civilization.

But it’s more likely that Romulus will find out from Nero or Spock in the past that Romulus is going to be destroyed and act in a timely manner to prevent it. The Romulan senate dragging their heels was just as much to blame for the disaster and now they’ll have 100 years to deal with it.

[Mjoellnir]

Any of the latest interviews and reviews. They were calling it an alternate timeline and universe right up till it was revealed it was a time travel movie.

I thought that the reviewers just didn't get what's happening but if you're right you just cost the guys 7 €. Now I'll read the synopsis on Memory Alpha first as soon as there is one (I try since it was released in Sydney to find one, but without any luck) before deciding if I go into the movie....

[JPJappic]

I did read it, and he is wrong, and they refuted his statement later. At the time when it was stated, he was stating to to make the haters shut up, the official line is that it's a time travel movie, not a paralell universe.

Based on some spoilers i've read from the official movie forums, it is unfortunately, going to be a parallel universe / alternate timeline mostly because of one huge event that takes place. I have to say that it disappointed me. I will still go see the movie. I'm just sad that it won't be part of the 40 years we already have.

I have been one person that has been showing off an interview with Bob Orci about canon and whatnot. Based on what the spoilers i've read show.. that interview is deceptive.

[ronaldheld]

More likely they got sent back in time by a temporary wormhole.

[fatesoasis]

Time travel in Star Trek never creates another universe. It always effects the "Prime" time line. The only time we see parallel universes is when they actually just travel to another universe (Parallels and Mirror Mirror).

In fact I can not find one episode in any of the series dealing with time travel that didn't effect the "Prime" Time line.

[Mjoellnir]

Time travel in Star Trek never creates another universe. It always effects the "Prime" time line. The only time we see parallel universes is when they actually just travel to another universe (Parallels and Mirror Mirror).

In fact I can not find one episode in any of the series dealing with time travel that didn't effect the "Prime" Time line.

Well, there's always the possibility to travel in both directions. A wormhole can under certain circumstances transport you through space and into a parallel universe. Why shouldn't this weird black hole transport someone through time and into a parallel universe? The Kelvin already looks parallel. :D

[coolfool]

I'm not sad to see the Rommies go! They had it coming. This is karma getting back at them for the centuries that they have enslaved the Remans! The sad thing is that they probably started to evacuate the Romulans from Romulus before the Remans since they view themselves as "the better race". I bet that nearly the entire Reman population is dead now!:mad:

[NCC1864]

I think that the new movie should not be canon, and has anybody else realized that they crossed the Constitution with the Constitution Refit?