CoH/CoV Feature I dearly hope Cryptic WON'T put in STO

[CrisNavarro]

Story Arc Souvenoirs. In CoH/V, your character could embark on a series of inter-connected PvE missions, each one advancing a single mini-storyline forward. At the end of this story arc, your character was awarded a "Souvenoir". It wasn't an actual ingame item, so much as a text entry which you could pull from a character menu. But once you clicked on your souvenoir it would give you a First Person text entry detailing whatever adventure your character had been involved in.

Quick example. One of the first storylines a brand new Villain undertakes is a task for a villainous group called Arachnos. To clear out an Arachnos base which has been over run with monstrous snake-people. This starts off a 3 or 4 mission storyline in which the player discovers these snake people are about to perform a ritual to awaken some super horrible world-destroying snake-god and you have to stop them. Cuz yanno, you can't conquer the world if some snake-god destroys it. Upon completion of the story arc you are awarded the souvenoir "Snake-Skin Boots"(Or was it snake egg? Whatever) and when you click on those boots in the menu you get a text entry along the lines of "These boots are a reminder of the time I...." and it then proceeds to give you a first person account of the entire adventure.

Now it's not the souvenoirs I have a problem with. In fact, I LOVE them and hope cryptic does put them(Or something similar) in STO. It'd be doubly cool if they can also be used as Quarters decoration, whenever they get around to giving us private quarters.

What I hope they DON'T carry over from CoH/V was the level caps attached to these Story Arcs. If you went beyond a certain level, the Contacts who give you the Story arc missions would no longer be willing to talk to you because they considered you too powerful to be bothering with their paltry problems. I know STO won't have levels per se, but I HATE when developers won't allow you to experience a game's full content with your favorite Toon. It's very frustrating.

That is all.

[Jonathan]

I don't see this happening as CoH/V eventually put in a system that allowed you to pick up and complete these missions.

[swedishviking]

there are no levels in STO

[KirksOtherSon]

As above, Nav, CoH/V eventually put in a system which allowed players to go back and complete missed story arcs. I've also seen similar systems in other MMORPGs of late. It seems to be a feature most games are adopting lately, so I wouldn't worry.

Regarding story-arc souvenirs in CoH/V, I loved them too ... but my friends and I often wished that they could manifest as actual objects in the game-world. We would've loved to have a "trophy room" in our superhero base. ;)

KOS

[TreffnonX]

there are no levels in STO

Do we know for sure? I mean there probably are not levels but something similar enough to do such restriction on too easy missions. Something like a rank or thelike that keeps you from doing the low-ranking stuff.

To put all this into relation with STO:
STO will have an episode-like mission system. That means that a chain of missions would be a chain of related episodes, in other words it would be a double feature or a season similar to DS9, you know, like the missions off DS9 because the dominion had captured the station.

I definetly love the idea of little mission reminders in our quarters, if they are not something everybody has. But that would require personal quarters, and we probably won't get them at start, but as i said, it would be awsome---:D

But in the end we will have to be surprised.

[CrisNavarro]

As above, Nav, CoH/V eventually put in a system which allowed players to go back and complete missed story arcs. I've also seen similar systems in other MMORPGs of late. It seems to be a feature most games are adopting lately, so I wouldn't worry.

Regarding story-arc souvenirs in CoH/V, I loved them too ... but my friends and I often wished that they could manifest as actual objects in the game-world. We would've loved to have a "trophy room" in our superhero base. ;)

KOS

I'm aware of the Flashback system, but unless that's been revamped in the last six or seven months(When I was forced to cancel subscription do to financial troubles), it only allows you to go back and redo SOME of your missed story arcs, not all. And it seems rather arbitrary in deciding which Arcs are redoable and which aren't.

Like I said in my initial post I know there won't be "levels" in the strictest sense of the word in STO, but there will probably be(I assume) ranks and once I reach the heighest rank, I don't want to be told that I can't go back and do a low rank mission. If not ranks, then whatever system they have to distinguish between beginner content, and end-game content.

[knightofhyrule730]

Do we know for sure? I mean there probably are not levels but something similar enough to do such restriction on too easy missions. Something like a rank or thelike that keeps you from doing the low-ranking stuff.

To put all this into relation with STO:
STO will have an episode-like mission system. That means that a chain of missions would be a chain of related episodes, in other words it would be a double feature or a season similar to DS9, you know, like the missions off DS9 because the dominion had captured the station.

I definetly love the idea of little mission reminders in our quarters, if they are not something everybody has. But that would require personal quarters, and we probably won't get them at start, but as i said, it would be awsome---:D

But in the end we will have to be surprised.

yes, we know for sure. there are no levels in STO.

as for that idea, id love something like that.

Also note: Cryptic isn't a part of NCsoft anymore...so im not sure they can just directly take things like that...

[TreffnonX]

yes, we know for sure. there are no levels in STO.

as for that idea, id love something like that.

Also note: Cryptic isn't a part of NCsoft anymore...so im not sure they can just directly take things like that...

i'd like a reference to where you have that information from because i am still not sure if we won't have a ranking system on which you can "rank up" similar to leveling in other MMOs.
Maybe you won't have a level 3 engineer, but you might have a commander-engineer or a captain-engineer or thelike.

[Moryan_Sorg]

Nice, I wasn't aware they did souvenirs in CoH/V. That sounds like a good idea. I think your idea makes sense. I think I might prefer them tailoring each 'episode' you do to your current skill/rank level though.

Some missions could be harder than others, but it would be boring (way too easy) to run though an entry level mission to get the souvenir. I know I wouldn't be required to get the souvenir, but might as well make it somewhat challenging. This might be somewhat hard of the episodic content is supposed to be continuous, but if this was the case, how/why would you have skipped any? So yeah, I'd like them to scale the episode missions to your/your group's current skill level.

[THORN74]

Story Arc Souvenoirs. In CoH/V, your character could embark on a series of inter-connected PvE missions, each one advancing a single mini-storyline forward. At the end of this story arc, your character was awarded a "Souvenoir". It wasn't an actual ingame item, so much as a text entry which you could pull from a character menu. But once you clicked on your souvenoir it would give you a First Person text entry detailing whatever adventure your character had been involved in.

Quick example. One of the first storylines a brand new Villain undertakes is a task for a villainous group called Arachnos. To clear out an Arachnos base which has been over run with monstrous snake-people. This starts off a 3 or 4 mission storyline in which the player discovers these snake people are about to perform a ritual to awaken some super horrible world-destroying snake-god and you have to stop them. Cuz yanno, you can't conquer the world if some snake-god destroys it. Upon completion of the story arc you are awarded the souvenoir "Snake-Skin Boots"(Or was it snake egg? Whatever) and when you click on those boots in the menu you get a text entry along the lines of "These boots are a reminder of the time I...." and it then proceeds to give you a first person account of the entire adventure.

Now it's not the souvenoirs I have a problem with. In fact, I LOVE them and hope cryptic does put them(Or something similar) in STO. It'd be doubly cool if they can also be used as Quarters decoration, whenever they get around to giving us private quarters.

What I hope they DON'T carry over from CoH/V was the level caps attached to these Story Arcs. If you went beyond a certain level, the Contacts who give you the Story arc missions would no longer be willing to talk to you because they considered you too powerful to be bothering with their paltry problems. I know STO won't have levels per se, but I HATE when developers won't allow you to experience a game's full content with your favorite Toon. It's very frustrating.

That is all.

actually this is kind of how i thought the "Captians log" would work

[TreffnonX]

actually this is kind of how i thought the "Captians log" would work

Well, I had hoped the captain's log would be somewhat text or audio based, but not involve actual things. It could be something that runs parrallel to the captains log.

[dyvimtorm]

actually this is kind of how i thought the "Captians log" would work

Me too, more or less.

Pavel Bester

[swedishviking]

i'd like a reference to where you have that information from because i am still not sure if we won't have a ranking system on which you can "rank up" similar to leveling in other MMOs.
Maybe you won't have a level 3 engineer, but you might have a commander-engineer or a captain-engineer or thelike.

from November's Ask Cryptic:

Will a gang of smaller ships, say, several Bird-of-Preys, be able to take out something like a Warbird using superior tactics and numbers?

Yes. Since we’re not using a traditional level-based system, smaller ships with good tactics and teamwork can take on bigger ships with a solid chance of success.

[CrisNavarro]

Nice, I wasn't aware they did souvenirs in CoH/V. That sounds like a good idea. I think your idea makes sense. I think I might prefer them tailoring each 'episode' you do to your current skill/rank level though.

Some missions could be harder than others, but it would be boring (way too easy) to run though an entry level mission to get the souvenir. I know I wouldn't be required to get the souvenir, but might as well make it somewhat challenging. This might be somewhat hard of the episodic content is supposed to be continuous, but if this was the case, how/why would you have skipped any? So yeah, I'd like them to scale the episode missions to your/your group's current skill level.

Well that's the thing that never made sense to me in CoH/V. CoH/V automatically scales the enemies in your mission to your level(Or the level of the highest people in your group). So level 1 and level 50 characters can go get the same mission to stop the Hellions from robbing Atlas Park Bank from the same contact. And everything in the mission will happen exactly the same with the only difference being the lvl 50 guy is facing lvl 50 Hellions, and the lvl 1 guy is facing lvl 1 Hellions. It's why I never understood the point of putting a level cap on the story arcs in the first place. They already had a system in place which automatically scales the challenge to fit the player undertaking it.

[Moryan_Sorg]

Well that's the thing that never made sense to me in CoH/V. CoH/V automatically scales the enemies in your mission to your level(Or the level of the highest people in your group). So level 1 and level 50 characters can go get the same mission to stop the Hellions from robbing Atlas Park Bank from the same contact. And everything in the mission will happen exactly the same with the only difference being the lvl 50 guy is facing lvl 50 Hellions, and the lvl 1 guy is facing lvl 1 Hellions. It's why I never understood the point of putting a level cap on the story arcs in the first place. They already had a system in place which automatically scales the challenge to fit the player undertaking it.

Yeah, that is odd. Someone wrote earlier that they eventually allowed it though? Again, it doesn't make sense to prevent people from enjoying content they already have in place... I wouldn't mind if they made a little random though. Doesn't Life 4 Dead on only have four levels but each of them random? Hopefully they extend the procedural generation over the the episodic content a bit.

My grandpa was a river guide on the same river for over 15 years, and he never got board. When asked how, he responded, "the water is never at the exact same height, it really affects the current and the rocks affect the flow. I often don't even feel like I'm on the same river". That kind of idea could go a long way to keeping the game interesting.

[CrisNavarro]

Yeah, that is odd. Someone wrote earlier that they eventually allowed it though? Again, it doesn't make sense to prevent people from enjoying content they already have in place... I wouldn't mind if they made a little random though. Doesn't Life 4 Dead on only have four levels but each of them random? Hopefully they extend the procedural generation over the the episodic content a bit.

My grandpa was a river guide on the same river for over 15 years, and he never got board. When asked how, he responded, "the water is never at the exact same height, it really affects the current and the rocks affect the flow. I often don't even feel like I'm on the same river". That kind of idea could go a long way to keeping the game interesting.

Yes they did eventually allow it...to an extent. They threw in something they called "The Flashback System" with the general idea being that your character was either having a flashback to the adventures of his "youth", or actually traveling back in time(Which would work in STO...Temporal Invesigations not withstanding) to his earlier self and then reliving those early adventures.

But like I said, the flashback system only allows you to do SOME of the earlier story arcs, not all. And they seem to have been very arbitrary about which Arcs are redoable and which are not. And since they already had a scaling system in place, one could argue there was no need for the flashback system in the first place. But we're veering a bit off topic here(By we, I mostly mean me, heh).

One of the things we long cried out for in CoH/CoV was the ability to turn our text-based souvenoirs into actual in-game items and then use them to decorate our bases. Never happened sadly.

But I would simply love if they made that a feature in STO, whenever they eventually get around to giving us Personal quarters.

[0wl]

there are no levels in STO

That was really funny! :D

[OrangeDragon]

But like I said, the flashback system only allows you to do SOME of the earlier story arcs, not all. And they seem to have been very arbitrary about which Arcs are redoable and which are not.

This is not correct. Every single story arc and badge mission is available in CoH/CoV using flashback. The only thing that is not available using flashback is individual missions that are not part of a contact's story arc or that do not award a badge.

[-Rufus-]

there are no levels in STO

There is no Cow Level!

[CrisNavarro]

This is not correct. Every single story arc and badge mission is available in CoH/CoV using flashback. The only thing that is not available using flashback is individual missions that are not part of a contact's story arc or that do not award a badge.

That wasn't the case when Flashback was first put into play. When did they make it work for all Arcs?

[OrangeDragon]

That wasn't the case when Flashback was first put into play. When did they make it work for all Arcs?

It's always been that way.

There are certain story arcs where the same arc is given out my a few different contacts. In flashback those story arcs are only given out by one of the possible contacts. It's possible that you missed the one you were looking for because it was under a different contact than you were used to.

[CrisNavarro]

I just looked at Paragon Wiki and unless they're in dire need of an update, it says all Main Story Arcs, MOST minor arcs are available via flashback.

Note that the only noteworthy distinction between a Main and Minor story arc is Minor Arcs are usually only 3-4 missions long whereas Main arcs can run up to over a dozen missions in length or sometimes be just as short as the minor arcs. Each award Souvenoirs regardless.

[Awarkle]

the problem i felt with city of heroes / villains story arcs was that they were always instanced based in such a way that meant nearly all the arcs seemed like the same story. you had to kill x y z , collect x y z, or kill named boss.

The task forces i felt were much much worse in that you couldnt just stop at a stage and come back later you had to continue playing.

I feel it was one of cov's biggest failings in that it was way too instanced in fact i cant remember half the missions i completed because they were so similar, i think i could sum it up in saying that the game wasnt epic enough, there was no super dungeon full of huge monsters. yeah there were huge monsters in the game but noone was actually interested in doing them.

game felt cold i think, what i would like from sto is a game that feels epic every time i log in.

[Cualtemuac]

I'm down with the souvenirs. It was one of my favourite things from SWG.

[CherryTerri]

there are no spoons in STO

Fixed it for you!

I am a fan of souveniers, as well as being able to do all the missions I want to!

Just no snake-skin boots ... ahem.

[Thibor]

i'd like a reference to where you have that information from because i am still not sure if we won't have a ranking system on which you can "rank up" similar to leveling in other MMOs.
Maybe you won't have a level 3 engineer, but you might have a commander-engineer or a captain-engineer or thelike.

I've seen it was well Treff that the game will be skill based vs. level based.
And while I think that system can be better and allow for more variation then class/levels I think some people are folling themselves that the underlying mechanic won't be similar, namely do X to advance Y.

In WoW I can kills mobs, do quests and instances to gain xp which turns into advancing my level.

Perhaps in STO it will be more granular as in using your phaser in ground combat will advance your skill with phasers. Successfully negotiating a treaty advances your diplomacy. Winning a space battle advances your tactical skilll. Solving an engineering or medical crisis increases those skills respectively.

At its core principle, it's not much different from leveling. However, one part people seem to gravitiate to more with the skill systems is that it makes more sense to advance that particular skill you're using vs. simply "dinging" the next level and being able to allocate points or learn new skills that potentially had little to do with how you gained that next level. A WoW example would be like hitting the next level in WoW with your rogue and allocating a talent point to a talent that increases your stun duration with maces while the whole time gaining that level you used dagger and sword.

It allows players to focus on those types of activities that will better benefit the aspects of their character they wish to advance.. And while I enjoy a simple leveling mechanic like WoW's, a skill based one most certainly is fun too.

[swedishviking]

I've seen it was well Treff that the game will be skill based vs. level based.
And while I think that system can be better and allow for more variation then class/levels I think some people are folling themselves that the underlying mechanic won't be similar, namely do X to advance Y.

In WoW I can kills mobs, do quests and instances to gain xp which turns into advancing my level.

Perhaps in STO it will be more granular as in using your phaser in ground combat will advance your skill with phasers. Successfully negotiating a treaty advances your diplomacy. Winning a space battle advances your tactical skilll. Solving an engineering or medical crisis increases those skills respectively.

At its core principle, it's not much different from leveling. However, one part people seem to gravitiate to more with the skill systems is that it makes more sense to advance that particular skill you're using vs. simply "dinging" the next level and being able to allocate points or learn new skills that potentially had little to do with how you gained that next level. A WoW example would be like hitting the next level in WoW with your rogue and allocating a talent point to a talent that increases your stun duration with maces while the whole time gaining that level you used dagger and sword.

It allows players to focus on those types of activities that will better benefit the aspects of their character they wish to advance.. And while I enjoy a simple leveling mechanic like WoW's, a skill based one most certainly is fun too.

or.....rank only denotes what ships you have access to and doesnt matter in the long run making levels superfluous

[TreffnonX]

or.....rank only denotes what ships you have access to and doesnt matter in the long run making levels superfluous

But it was also stated by Cryptic that a well equiped smaller ship needs to have a very strong player behind to beat a mediaum to low equiped higher ranked ship. Assuming that the ranking system will grant acces to higher ships that would make the ranking system equally important than leveling in other games. Let me also relativate the importance of this quote you made:
[...] Since we’re not using a traditional level-based system [...]
That does not mean there won't be gradual differences between players. It might suggest that the importance of the rank is not as big as level in other MMOs or it might as well mean that there are only skills on which to improve... we simply don't know yet.

[Sinclair]

I agree with the opening poster. One should never be too experienced to undergo a quest. Otherwise it means that I am being shut out of certain game content that I have to level another character to see, and I dont think it is a good game mechanic to force players to have to do that.

[swedishviking]

But it was also stated by Cryptic that a well equiped smaller ship needs to have a very strong player behind to beat a mediaum to low equiped higher ranked ship. Assuming that the ranking system will grant acces to higher ships that would make the ranking system equally important than leveling in other games. Let me also relativate the importance of this quote you made

I remember when they were talking about that and it came across to me as defining the importance of skill not ranks or ship tier

[qoona]

Eve uses accelertion gates to keep certain ships out of certain mission/complexes ( but you can always make them, you just ned to dock and change ship). SWG have extensive level cap for a lot oof missions. Coh have scaled missions but t only to some extent also Rikti Warzone have level cap, pvp areas are level capped ( low level pvp, mid level etc)