Pros and Cons of Romance

[elitolu]

Well, there is three types of romance I think that can be implemented. NPC + NPC, PC + NPC, and PC + PC. Here is my opinions about it.


NPC + NPC Romance
Pros:

*It can have cool subplots in missions
*There could be endless possibilities of the outcome of the relationship
*Love = Happiness = Happy Bridge Crew = No frustrating crew

Cons:

*There could be some weird relationships, like a Bajoran with a Cardassian
*Weakness could be shown from one partner to another on away mission
*NPCs could have glitches that are for the worse (i.e. Two same-sex partners, unless you like that kind of thing)



PC + NPC
Pros:

*Player can have dates and events with their chosen lover
*In-depth gameplay and storylines
*When frustrated you can go talk to your sexy Counselor (Or since I will only have a morale officer, my sexy helmsman)

Cons:

*Awkward situations can be brought up
*If there isn't very good interaction with NPCs in the game, romance would suck
*The heart can (weirdly) be broken



PC + PC
Pros:

*Players that are married or dating could also be on the game
*Gives the opportunity to expand relations with player-to-player
*Could be for the good or bad for the crew

Cons:

*When not in a real life relationship, it could be very awkward. (Especially if it's a kid)
*When in a real life relationship, if your other partner doesn't play STO and you do have a romance with another player. Ugh... (i. e. "Captain, the USS IMGOINGTOKILLYOU, and the Command of Lieutenant YOUARE DIGITALLYCHEATING ONME is on intercept course")


Your thoughts?

[Moryan_Sorg]

Well, I really hope that a girl I'm dating would play this game. Actually, i just broke up with one that probably would have. hmmm, I'm rethinking my decision...

I think most of the Pc + PC relationship stuff would have to keep to RP or whatever. It would be odd for them to come up with content special for that. It would also be odd for them to come up with content for NPC + NPC, I'm pretty sure that most people wouldn't want that.

The oddest thing though would be fore PC + NPC, i mean, kinda creepy... There is an actual barrier though that this would be insanely hard to program to have any bit of realism (unless you want to turn this game mechanic into 'the sims' and then i say, no thanks).

In summary, I like your enthusiasm about this, but I really hope the devs concentrate on other parts of game play.

[Vorador]

Personally I have little interest in romance angles within games. If done well, it can work, KOTOR for instance does a good job of handling your relationship with Bastila. I suppose it can add some interesting quests, for example the episode of DS9 where Worf and Dax are supposed to go rescue a Cardassian defector, and Worf decided to save an injured Dax rather than rescue the Cardassian. But overall I'd prefer missions that involve me shooting at starfleet :D

[BreachAndClear]

You might be able to roleplay romance with another player, or write a romance into the back story of one of your characters. However, since there's been mention that there will not be in depth dialogue trees when dealing with crew members (and I assume the same holds true for non-crew members), then I wouldn't expect to see PC+NPC romantic relationships.

[Jenshae]

I am getting mixed signals from the developers. These episodic missions are they quests, story line, how do they impact the character?

I think that this idea is probably too late and too early right now. Too late for initial development and too early to see and fit in with what we know and they have made / are making.

[No1UKnow]

I find this portion most disturbing:

PC + NPC
Pros:

*Player can have dates and events with their chosen lover
*In-depth gameplay and storylines
*When frustrated you can go talk to your sexy Counselor (Or since I will only have a morale officer, my sexy helmsman)

Cons:

*Awkward situations can be brought up
*If there isn't very good interaction with NPCs in the game, romance would suck
*The heart can (weirdly) be broken

specifically this part:

*If there isn't very good interaction with NPCs in the game, romance would suck

Are you hoping for a date with 7 of 9? lol

[Crab66]

Your thoughts?


I don't care. This should not be a factor in the game.


If two players want to role play. That's fine.

If characters in a story are in love. Also fine.


Any game mechanics beyond that are unnecessary and the pc+npc stuff is creepy.

[dyvimtorm]

I don't care. This should not be a factor in the game.


If two players want to role play. That's fine.

If characters in a story are in love. Also fine.


Any game mechanics beyond that are unnecessary and the pc+npc stuff is creepy.

I'll agree with this. Although a plotline with some sort of NPC romance (like Elaan of Troyius from TOS) might be an alright mission plot.

Pavel Bester

[Dext]

Cons:

*When not in a real life relationship, it could be very awkward. (Especially if it's a kid)
That looks like it could also be having some Jail time with that one.

[KirksOtherSon]

Your thoughts?

Player and player romances will be acted out if the two players wish it. This has always been true in the MMORPGs I've played.

Player and NPC romances are unlikely, because players don't like it when a game forces choices (especially partner choices, I expect) on them.

Besides the question of choice, the only rpg genre games I've seen which do PC-NPC romance at all well are the ones from Bioware (the original Knights of the Old Republic game, Jade Empire, Mass Effect) and those were all single-player games, with a lot of dialogue scripting to enable player choices and interesting interaction.

I'm not sure all the work required to make this happen in a thousands-of-players MMORPG game would be worth the time spent; work and time which could be used to make sure more obvious necessary game elements were ready and polished for STO's release.

Bioware is claiming that they'll have their trademark NPC interactivity as a part of their upcoming first MMORPG, Star Wars: The Old Republic, but it remains to be seen how they'll enable all that on a massive scale.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of NPCs with more personality -- NPCs you can interact with character to character -- but I suspect making that happen in a good and quality way in time for STO's launch isn't possible, especially with so much else needing to be worked on, and sorted out, first.

Plus, as has been noted, a lot of people don't seem to care for a specific NPC romance option, which makes it even harder to justify spending development time and effort trying to perfect an untried mechanic in time for launch.

I don't mean to sound like I'm dismissing your suggestion. I'm not. I just don't know that it's practical to look for what you suggest in Star Trek Online, especially with the launch date strongly rumored to be early 2010 at the latest.

If Bioware actually pulls off their trademark "interactive NPCs" in Star Wars: The Old Republic, and shows the MMO industry how to do it right, perhaps we can expect something in a future Star Trek Online expansion, but I wouldn't look for it at game launch.

My opinions anway, and I'm wrong semi-regularly,

KOS

[BreachAndClear]

I don't get what the big deal is about so much as the prospect of PC+NPC relationships. I think people are thinking along the lines of what Bioware has done (with Mass Effect, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic) or Fable. There's nothing odd or creepy about it. Games, overall, are embracing more and more cinematic styles of gameplay, and this is simply one aspect of such entertainment.

But regardless, I know that such depth isn't going to be added to the character interactions of STO.

[KirksOtherSon]

I don't get what the big deal is about so much as the prospect of PC+NPC relationships. I think people are thinking along the lines of what Bioware has done (with Mass Effect, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic) or Fable. There's nothing odd or creepy about it. Games, overall, are embracing more and more cinematic styles of gameplay, and this is simply one aspect of such entertainment.

But regardless, I know that such depth isn't going to be added to the character interactions of STO.

Fable 2 -- thanks, B&C, I knew I was forgetting a good example. I suppose one could also cite The Sims 2; it's not an rpg, but it's one of the most popular games on the planet, so at least it's a ready example most people have probably seen.

I agree PC+NPC relationships don't have to be creepy, as these games have all proven. As you say, it's just an outgrowth of storytelling.

I also agree that we're unlikely to see this level of NPC interactivity in STO -- at least at launch. So much work would have to be done to implement it well, when there's so much else the game needs to have ready for launch.

KOS

[Majicman182]

I find this portion most disturbing:


Agreed. Video games are not online dating services.

[0wl]

Eventhough your idears do sound intriguing OP to say the least but i've had my fair share 'o "romancing" thanks to MMO's, i am staying the hell away from it this time! :p

[Saladin_Class]

and if a Klingon Captain cant find a good woman, he can always marry his Targ

Its a commerice game, leave it at that

[Ensign.Ricky]

That looks like it could also be having some Jail time with that one.

Lol. Sounds like it would be a job for Chris Hansen (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6954/1188994406433346a87dgi3.jpg)too.

[THORN74]

Well, there is three types of romance I think that can be implemented. NPC + NPC, PC + NPC, and PC + PC. Here is my opinions about it.


NPC + NPC Romance
Pros:

*It can have cool subplots in missions
*There could be endless possibilities of the outcome of the relationship
*Love = Happiness = Happy Bridge Crew = No frustrating crew

Cons:

*There could be some weird relationships, like a Bajoran with a Cardassian
*Weakness could be shown from one partner to another on away mission
*NPCs could have glitches that are for the worse (i.e. Two same-sex partners, unless you like that kind of thing)



PC + NPC
Pros:

*Player can have dates and events with their chosen lover
*In-depth gameplay and storylines
*When frustrated you can go talk to your sexy Counselor (Or since I will only have a morale officer, my sexy helmsman)

Cons:

*Awkward situations can be brought up
*If there isn't very good interaction with NPCs in the game, romance would suck
*The heart can (weirdly) be broken



PC + PC
Pros:

*Players that are married or dating could also be on the game
*Gives the opportunity to expand relations with player-to-player
*Could be for the good or bad for the crew

Cons:

*When not in a real life relationship, it could be very awkward. (Especially if it's a kid)
*When in a real life relationship, if your other partner doesn't play STO and you do have a romance with another player. Ugh... (i. e. "Captain, the USS IMGOINGTOKILLYOU, and the Command of Lieutenant YOUARE DIGITALLYCHEATING ONME is on intercept course")


Your thoughts?

nothing good will come from this

[osena]

Well, there is three types of romance I think that can be implemented. NPC + NPC, PC + NPC, and PC + PC. Here is my opinions about it.


NPC + NPC Romance
Pros:

*It can have cool subplots in missions
*There could be endless possibilities of the outcome of the relationship
*Love = Happiness = Happy Bridge Crew = No frustrating crew

Cons:

*There could be some weird relationships, like a Bajoran with a Cardassian
*Weakness could be shown from one partner to another on away mission
*NPCs could have glitches that are for the worse (i.e. Two same-sex partners, unless you like that kind of thing)



PC + NPC
Pros:

*Player can have dates and events with their chosen lover
*In-depth gameplay and storylines
*When frustrated you can go talk to your sexy Counselor (Or since I will only have a morale officer, my sexy helmsman)

Cons:

*Awkward situations can be brought up
*If there isn't very good interaction with NPCs in the game, romance would suck
*The heart can (weirdly) be broken



PC + PC
Pros:

*Players that are married or dating could also be on the game
*Gives the opportunity to expand relations with player-to-player
*Could be for the good or bad for the crew

Cons:

*When not in a real life relationship, it could be very awkward. (Especially if it's a kid)
*When in a real life relationship, if your other partner doesn't play STO and you do have a romance with another player. Ugh... (i. e. "Captain, the USS IMGOINGTOKILLYOU, and the Command of Lieutenant YOUARE DIGITALLYCHEATING ONME is on intercept course")


Your thoughts?

there is quest in pirates of the burning sea we you can put out NPC love interest its giveing in the mian quest plot line it was ok but there was like 2 girls and 2 guys you could pick form it was kinda funny cos my friend talked to guy and his love intetrest was that guy for the whole quest line lol i was smart enof to read the fine print in the quest log book

[topekaguy1988]

Cons:

*NPCs could have glitches that are for the worse (i.e. Two same-sex partners, unless you like that kind of thing)


I like how he thinks Same sex partners would be a glitch. That is so ignorant.

Also this whole topic is just creepy. :eek:

[BreachAndClear]

1. On NPC+NPC relationships

I don't know what you're looking for here. There may very well be missions in which you need to help someone rescue their spouse, etc. If you are suggesting that your bridge crew is going to randomly engage in relationships with other bridge crew members, there's little point in taking the time to code that as it affects the player in almost no way. You're basically asking for The Sims aboard a starship. I don't see this happening.

2. On PC+PC relationships

There's nothing stopping players from roleplaying this. There have been threads about "marriages" etc. And in your bios you can make mention about how you're romantically involved with some other character if that is what you both desire. I mean, in SWG you could exchange rings and become "married" to another player. I can't imagine it was a popular feature.

3. On PC+NPC relationships

I think some people have to grow up and get it out of their head that this is some horribly creepy thing that nerds do, sitting at their computer and investing in some "relationship" with a NPC. Again, see KOTOR, Jade Empire, etc. It's not like people run home and say "oh boy, I'm going to go hang out with my girlfriend (or boyfriend) on Jade Empire!" it's simply a pseudo-cinematic feature included in the game that the other characters can react to (e.g. another love interest gets jealous) or conversely, instead of pursuing a relationship you have the option of treating the person like crap, and seeing how they react. It's simply entertainment. Nobody is so delusional as to think it's a real relationship (no more so than people think of themselves as a real starship captain).

Now, having said that, successfully pulling off such complex PC+NPC interactions requires in depth dialog trees which will not be in the game. Chances are interacting with your NPCs might be limited to asking for a damage report or issuing orders, not chatting it up. If you want such in depth immersion in interacting with NPCs in a MMORPG, Star Wars: The Old Republic will probably be your best bet.

[Chillee]

I am apologize for the remarks in advance, but I have to say it: the concept of promoting this mechanic (romance) for an MMO simply means that the players who want it need a real life.

If you want romance at the silicon level, go to Sims or Second Life.

[Darksider]

I dont have a problem with romances as long as its incorporated into a story line AND it doesnt dominate the feel of the game. PCs are going to "hook up" online as they do in all the MMOs. I dont forsee Cryptic spending much time on this as they are still focused on the meat and potatoes of the STO experience.

[Thibor]

Are you hoping for a date with 7 of 9? lol

Not exactly ... I'm hoping for a date with Jeri Ryan and further hoping she still has one of her 7 of 9 costumes in her closet ... you know ... for "roleplaying nights" :D

[BreachAndClear]

Part of the problem with NPC+PC relationships in STO also is the fact that relationships with subordinates is flat out against regulations is it not? (if not, then it's at least deemed inappropriate), and we are playing as the captain of a ship. Thus, if you were to treat the bridge crew as your party, even if they did have in depth dialog trees it wouldn't be suitable to have a relationship with a member of your crew. And while Picard, Kirk, etc. did develop some relationships, they were USUALLY (I'm leaving wiggle room for the exceptions) with non-Starfleet members.

Not to mention, this game seems to be aimed to be friendly for the largest possible fan base, including younger kids (see little girl at Vegas convention). Again, Bioware is a company that aims to make for more cinematic immersion, and pushes it a little bit which angers some (see Mass Effect controversy). Yes, there are romantic relationships in ST, but they are not key. Comraderie in general seems to be the emphasis.

[IG_Slayer]

????????????????????

[IG_Slayer]

There is no romance in the Dominion. There is only the Great Link and Clone Pods......that is all!

[Jenshae]

Do they love the great link in their own way?

[Inquizitor]

Pros

Sex.


Cons

Everything else

[Jenshae]

Pros ...

Mutual mental "alone time."

[lokan]

Part of the problem with NPC+PC relationships in STO also is the fact that relationships with subordinates is flat out against regulations is it not? (if not, then it's at least deemed inappropriate), and we are playing as the captain of a ship. Thus, if you were to treat the bridge crew as your party, even if they did have in depth dialog trees it wouldn't be suitable to have a relationship with a member of your crew. And while Picard, Kirk, etc. did develop some relationships, they were USUALLY (I'm leaving wiggle room for the exceptions) with non-Starfleet members.


Have you not actually watched Star Trek before? :p

Picard was *******g one of his Department Heads for a while, Riker was with Troi . You had Jadzia and Worf, Bashir and Ezri. Tom and B'ellana, Chakotay and 7.


If there are any rules about fraternization in Starfleet, they seem to be enforced about as strictly as jaywalking. :D

[ArdraVentax]

I think the prospect of marriage in an MMO adds considerable room for role-play and should be included.

The biggest mistake MMOs make is to be too sterile and to not include enough social elements.

The bottom line is the game company wants you to spend as much time as possible playing THEIR game and not a different one. So the key to that is to include as many 'game elements' as possible, and that means more than just level grinding and killing monsters. Emotes, socials, crafting, non-combat classes, stuff that interests people who get quickly bored with level grinding.

If you want people to "live" in your game world you have to give them the ability to do more than just quest and work there. Let them play there too. Let them create there. Give them housing of some kind so they can truly live there. Let them buy and sell, chat, waste time there as they see fit.

Provide a construct that sets the players free to do as they wish and then watch the world blossom and grow.

[marscentral]

I don't think PC to PC relationships are even an issue, they'll happen as some will want to do that. Relationships between NPCs and other NPCs or players are okay if they're done properly, adding depth to the world, but can be awful if done badly. It's the PC to NPC ones that are the problem (NPC to NPC are easier as they're entirely scripted). Some players might want to take that route with an NPC, others (as evidenced here) will think it's weak and want to avoid it. Mass Effect did it fairly well and I think there are lessons there.