Further Contests

[nhamlett]

I've read all of your complaints and concerns and I'm responding through this thread. If the comments get out of hand - It will be closed. Please let's try to keep this civil.

Yes, I chose an entry that was longer than 300 words. Yes, I disregarded the rules of that contest. Actually - I completely forgot that there was a word limit because I felt that the entry was that good. It engaged my imagination and when I sent it to the team to judge, they also enjoyed it.

I apologize to this community for disregarding the rules and failing your expectations. I'm sorry to those of you who felt that you ought to have won and did not because of the 300 word limit.

In the future - all contests will be random lotteries so that this sort of thing does not happen again. I appreciate all of the hard work and creativity that you have put into the contests thus far and I hope that we may again some day be able to have activities that allow you all to be creative.

In the meantime, please accept my apologies and I look forward to providing you all with more game content.

[DarthWarth]

I apologize to this community for disregarding the rules and failing your expectations. I'm sorry to those of you who felt that you ought to have won and did not because of the 300 word limit.


We don't necessarily feel that we should have won, our point is if the word limit was 600 then everyone would have done a better job, or at 300 words the current winner's would not have been as good since there would be less creation space.

However the apology you have now given is accepted, thank you for that. Congrats to the winner.

[AdmiralWynn]

I've read all of your complaints and concerns and I'm responding through this thread. If the comments get out of hand - It will be closed. Please let's try to keep this civil.

Yes, I chose an entry that was longer than 300 words. Yes, I disregarded the rules of that contest. Actually - I completely forgot that there was a word limit because I felt that the entry was that good. It engaged my imagination and when I sent it to the team to judge, they also enjoyed it.

I apologize to this community for disregarding the rules and failing your expectations. I'm sorry to those of you who felt that you ought to have won and did not because of the 300 word limit.

In the future - all contests will be random lotteries so that this sort of thing does not happen again. I appreciate all of the hard work and creativity that you have put into the contests thus far and I hope that we may again some day be able to have activities that allow you all to be creative.

In the meantime, please accept my apologies and I look forward to providing you all with more game content.

Too little too late. You fail at your job, in my view.

[Usagi7]

If it was just an honest mistake then it's all good. I wish there was something that could be done in order to reward someone who deserves recognition that DID follow the rules. Giving a second First Place prize seems to me to be a good "meeting halfway" solution.

I am more saddened that because of this you guys won't be taking a chance on another user-generated content contest in the future. It IS really cool, and it does bring people in (like myself) to the forums. Just gotta be careful with how you judge things.

I hope you guys can do another cool user-participation-oriented contest again. Lotteries are boring :( But I guess they're undeniably more objective.

Thanks for the apology. You guys do good work, so I hope you didn't take the criticism too personally.

[Deanwormer]

Thank you Awen.

Although the lottery thing does have the feel of pushing this issue back on the community.

At it's heart this issue issue is not a question of subjectivity. Respectfully- that may be what you're missing.

[Azurian]

I've read all of your complaints and concerns and I'm responding through this thread. If the comments get out of hand - It will be closed. Please let's try to keep this civil.

Yes, I chose an entry that was longer than 300 words. Yes, I disregarded the rules of that contest. Actually - I completely forgot that there was a word limit because I felt that the entry was that good. It engaged my imagination and when I sent it to the team to judge, they also enjoyed it.

I apologize to this community for disregarding the rules and failing your expectations. I'm sorry to those of you who felt that you ought to have won and did not because of the 300 word limit.

In the future - all contests will be random lotteries so that this sort of thing does not happen again. I appreciate all of the hard work and creativity that you have put into the contests thus far and I hope that we may again some day be able to have activities that allow you all to be creative.

In the meantime, please accept my apologies and I look forward to providing you all with more game content.

First off, Awen. I'm very disappointed you disenfranchised other participants and chastised those who abided by the rules.

I will admit, Hybrid's story was good, but he clearly broke the rules and should not have been considered. He could've got honorable mention, but not first prize. Because what's to say that many of these entries that were cut short, wasn't better? But yet they trimmed their works to fit in the set limits of 300 words.


Now as for this lottery, this greatly makes feel disconcerted. Seems future winners won't be chosen by their works, but by simple draw of the hat. It's bad enough people don't get a chance to compete in the trivia, because of someone being faster at the draw.

I say future contests should be narrowed down by the Cryptic staff, with entries breaking the rules to be excluded, and the top 5 or 10 winners be chosen by the public.

That sounds fair, does it not?

[Shuichii]

The PR dept doesn't look over the forums, that's why they hired Awen. They and Cryptic are prolly clueless about what is going on. Email them directly to let them know what is going on.

PR@crypticstudios.com

[StraboV2]

Let's be civil please....I stated this elsewhere, everyones human and makes mistakes. An apology and explanation was given and that should be enough. Neither side needs dump on one another, and let's not beat a dead horse :P

I don't think though that contests should resort to lotteries...just cutting creative opportunities for the community shouldn't be the answer and it could leave a sour taste for both sides. It was pointed out once that Cryptic was having growing pains, and surely they are very excited about contests and whatnot in lieu of the upcoming game. Things happen...let's not get bent out of shape.

But you guys shouldn't cut the contests either. Give the community a chance to show it's good side as well :D

[IanD967]

i agree with Azurian.

stick 5-8 final entrys on the front page poll and then get the public to vote for what one to win, in the meantime cryptic can decide which 5-8 get stuck up

[CmdrWoof]

Too little too late. You fail at your job, in my view.

Be nice. You can't prove you'd do better, so the discussion is pointless.

Awen:

With all due respect, I don't think this is a solution that will satisfy many people... I would be much less motivated to enter a contest involving creativity if I knew it would be a lottery. I just think future contests should be filtered for the rules before judging, really... Seems pretty simple. If it's random, people will simply complain there was no creative thought involved, and that they should have won because of that!

Of course, people will always complain on the internet, ESPECIALLY trekkies ;)

I think you folks dropped the ball a bit on this one, but instead of making the contests random and therefore not very meaningful (you might as well just pick a random username at that point, forget the contest), why not just learn from this one and make the next one clearer?

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Apparently, all of this hubub has already been documented in the wikipedia STO article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_online#Contest_Controversies) :o

[nhamlett]

The PR dept doesn't look over the forums, that's why they hired Awen. They and Cryptic are prolly clueless about what is going on. Email them directly to let them know what is going on.

PR@crypticstudios.com Actually I told on myself. I'm unfailingly honest. *sigh* They are aware of what is going on completely here.

And to be fair, Nobody ever blamed the community. Because of the blacklash, I want to ensure that it doesn't happen again. I'm working on making this unit happy.

[TreffnonX]

The prizes promised get people interested and make them give their best, but when it comes to terms of the selection of the winner the people are likewise precise. This entire incident happened because the people took the rules like they were, as rules. And I can understand how that upsets people especially in a case where they really want to win, because the stakes are as high.
But what happened in the thread regarding the winner went out of bounds (sadly this includes me as well) In the hope that we all learn from our mistakes, I think future contests should still have a prize, so people have a reason to participate, other than just good will (which I think you still have plenty of here in this forum)
So i hope that despite those recent events we did not spoil your enthusiasm about this community and I hope that future working with us will still be benefitial to both you and the community.

I already apologized to NeoWolf but i want to do it again so everyone who had to read it.
I too stepped out of bounds, big time in that thread and used words that should best be erased. So everybody who felt attacked or repelled, I am truly sorry for what i wrote.

However I am not going to edit the entry in order to have it as a reminder to what can happen if we get too agitated with a discussion (it has happened before, i have seen it, i am just not sure if it was ever that bad...
€dit: Seems like this was has already been done for me... so no reminder anymore...:)
Again Apologies.:(

[DarthWarth]

Seems pretty simple. If it's random, people will simply complain there was no creative thought involved, and that they should have won because of that!

lol "And the winner of these months alien ID contest was this entry": This alien is green and has horns. "Congratulations to him!!"

[Dext]

I would like to say that if you all do a lotto. for people to get a key that did have the 300 max I would be more then happy to take my name out of it. It would be the right thing for you all to do an only right for me to not be in it.

I did have 296 Words but For what I have posted I see that I should not be in the Drawing if you do one.

[Counselor_Zexx]

Too little too late. You fail at your job, in my view.

This is NOT constructive and will not serve to bolster our community here. Please let's refrain from this childish behavior.

That said...

Awen. I feel like there's a level of you taking the personally, like we don't respect your choice and therefore we're going to a lottery system. And I want to stress that's not the case. It was a great story.

Going to a lottery system is not the way to offer incentive for your forum members to test their creativity. You're going to get a lot of "I can haz beta slot becuz I iz Kurk!" instead of actual submissions. Will those be part of the selection pool?

I don't envy your position in all this. But I want to stress - the rules that your team set out are so important to gamers and Trek nerds like ourselves.

I hope you'll reconsider about the lottery. And I wish you personally all the best.

[marscentral]

First off, I haven't congratulated the winner yet, so let me do that now... congratulations.

I didn't enter this time around, so I've no particular axe to grind on this. I can understand what happened, perhaps the best way forward is to offer the beta prize to the runner up as well and put their entry up as joint winner. Maybe even give someone else a runner up prize.

In the future, I would like contests to stay based on the merit of the entry. I don't see the point of even doing it if it's basically a lottery (unless it is an actual lottery, but that's different). I'm aware that you don't have to do this and appreciate the effort the Community Team goes to here.

Anyway, I'm going to wait for the next starship you reveal. It will be the Akira class

[IanD967]

where can we see the Runners up entry? :confused:

[DarthWarth]

Apparently, all of this hubub has already been documented in the wikipedia STO article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_online#Contest_Controversies) :o

Man, some people don't mess around do they?

[Draighwulf]

It's a shame that the decision was made to about future contests being a lottery, I'd rather see the current encouragement of creativity on the hands on the fans

Maybe instead include an option for an "honorary mention" for entries that stand out so much (even if they break some of the rules such as word count). These could then be shortlisted with the runner ups(depending on number) just before Beta opens and allow the community to vote on their favorite and be awarded a beta key?

[STO]

In the meantime, please accept my apologies and I look forward to providing you all with more game content.

Awen this is such a tough bunch of people. You would think we are competing for a million dollars or something... There will be MANY MANY ways to get into beta, including a likely massive random selection just before beta starts.

As to the last contest, II myself was a little surprised the winning entry was so long, I think many members had to cut out a lot of content from their works to get their submission down to those small 300 words, thus feeling "robbed" of a chance to share their creativity. However, I do think we can all agree that the winning person did a great job and deserves the victory.

I really hope that not all future contests will be random lottery only... but if it is necessary to stop the flaming and OMG's after every contest, I support that decision.

To those of you that are attacking Awen's position and Awen personally because of these past couple contests, you need to consider something. Awen's job is soooo much more than the occasional forum contest. She is one of our bridges to the development team. Just how much we are able to interact with Cryptic and how Cryptic treats us with pre-release content is being determined by how we interact with Awen (among others.) If you guys want us on a tight chain go ahead and keep blasting every move she makes, if you want to stay in good standing for goodness sakes guys, EASE UP@

[Moryan_Sorg]

If I can have honesty, it's easier to overlook mistakes.
-- Kirk

NP here, it was a good article. Thanks for being honest about it.

[Jonathan]

Actually I told on myself. I'm unfailingly honest. *sigh* They are aware of what is going on completely here.

And to be fair, Nobody ever blamed the community. Because of the blacklash, I want to ensure that it doesn't happen again. I'm working on making this unit happy.

I'm just sorry that the community couldn't come together and congratulate him as a whole. Unfortunately this affects the way we're going to do contests from now on and we won't be able to foster the creativity of this community anymore.

I'm sorry that you've taken this excitement and enjoyment and turned it into something not good.

You did blame the community.

[NeoWolf]

Thank you Awen,

Thank you for admitting the oversight, the mistake and apologising.

Very gracious of you, my faith is restored.

Apology accepted.

The issue was not the winner, or even the quality of the winning entry, it simple the non abbidance by the rules we were all following. If you state rules they must apply to all in order to maintain fairness for all participating. Otherwise you get situations like we had today.

Instead of allowing this debacle to make you lose faith and go with random competitions in future, instead use it as a learning expeience in order to encourage you not to accidentally make the same mistake in future. you have always done exemplary before, tthis was simply a hiccup, don't allow it to become anything more.

[nhamlett]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

I prefer creativity contests. I like to see what you guys come up with. It gives me a nice break from reading the forums or generating content. :) I often laugh and spend the day smiling when I read something funny. Don't think that I don't read them and believe that you guys are super awesome. I do. But when things get out of hand, either on my part or yours, it makes the hassle much less worth the effort right? This was an honest mistake on my part and I'll defend my decision to award this winner to my last breath simply because the enjoyment factor by all was immense.

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

[Traveller]

Its good that they have opologized and admited that they made a mistake.

But please AWEN dnt let the other contests go to a LOTTERY to DECIDE the winner.

[DarthWarth]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

There are problems with this too, for example what if you pick a registered user that hasn't posted for months and has lost interest in the game, or one that doesn't have a computer and is following the progress through interest at work.

While it can work there have to be parameters, I'd be happy either way tbh, I won't be entering a creation competition again.

[STO]

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

I agree, as much as I dislike the idea of a random selection for "winners" of future contests, I would much rather we have that then unhappy people... It seems there are a good number of those at the moment.

[TreffnonX]

There are problems with this too, for example what if you pick a registered user that hasn't posted for months and has lost interest in the game, or one that doesn't have a computer and is following the progress through interest at work.

While it can work there have to be parameters, I'd be happy either way tbh, I won't be entering a creation competition again.

not to forget all the people who would create hundreds of accounts in order to increase their chances...

[Capn_Danger]

Agree with darthdonte, i myself was spurred to enter the competition by there being a prize of some kind on offer. Even creative people like a carrot - whats the point in randomly assigning 'prizes' to forum users?

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Why not select random beta applicants, and have some other kind of reward for contest winners? Perhaps some special title or badge in game?

[SteveTheMeek]

I'm sorry but I have to react.

However, I do think we can all agree that the winning person did a great job and deserves the victory.

No, the person did a stinkin' job at cutting the story to the REQUESTED length.
And he/she does not deserve the victory in the 300 word story contest. The story should have been disqualified at the very first sight. Everyone, and I mean everyone could tell at a glance that the story is too long, it was longer than the winning entry of the previous contest ffs!



I really hope that not all future contests will be random lottery only... but if it is necessary to stop the flaming and OMG's after every contest, I support that decision.

The flaming? Eh? it was a just outrage at the the obvious, humongous mistake that had occurred and the quite shocking comments from Awen that followed. Blame her, not us. The devs were wrong. They messed up.
Don't pat them on the back for their mistakes, they won't learn from it (and so they hadn't), don't support them when they are wrong and are making things worse. You will regret it later, really.

The apology came, that's good.
Doubt it's enough though.

[BreachAndClear]

Granted, I actually do think that random lotteries are, in the interest of fairness, the best way to go.

However, if people REALLY don't want to sacrifice creativity, such "contests" could always be relegated to games held just for fun. I mean, there's no reward for the Kobiyashi Maru segments, right? Though I realize that no winner in declared in those posts.

If a winner is declared in a contest that is just for fun, then I don't think they'd result in nearly as much animosity toward the judges and managers of such a competition when they make mistakes. Or maybe they just get something simple like a T-shirt mailed to them or some other inexhaustible reward, such that players aren't competing for a limited number of beta slots.

[CmdrWoof]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

Man, I hope this doesn't happen! Please, take some time to reconsider...

I've really enjoyed both creating my own material AND reading what others have made! I'm admittedly a bit bitter about the entry length, but it is a GIVEN that the winner will be subjectively chosen... That's part of the game!

Personally, I really liked the idea of y'all picking your top 5 or 10 entries (Credit to Azurian?), then having a front page vote on the final winner... It's kind of hard to argue with those results, yes? Chosen by the community after having been narrowed down by you guys?

I think the front page could use that kind of shake up anyway, the votes on there are a bit dry, no offense ;)

[TreffnonX]

Why not select random beta applicants, and have some other kind of reward for contest winners? Perhaps some special title or badge in game?

Yeah I like that. Or if an entry is extraordinariely good try to implement it in the game. For example create the race and the planet or the asteroid field or whatever the contest is about.

It would be a cool thing to win then, but it would be no biggie if someone would win who did a little bit more than the rest and overstepped the rules. I'd very much like that.

[SelorKiith]

People are people... they all make mistakes...
so I would rather see you going on as it was, having some beautiful contests were we can challenge ourselves...

[Jonathan]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

I prefer creativity contests. I like to see what you guys come up with. It gives me a nice break from reading the forums or generating content. :) I often laugh and spend the day smiling when I read something funny. Don't think that I don't read them and believe that you guys are super awesome. I do. But when things get out of hand, either on my part or yours, it makes the hassle much less worth the effort right? This was an honest mistake on my part and I'll defend my decision to award this winner to my last breath simply because the enjoyment factor by all was immense.

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

You're compounding this mistake, I mean you're not giving anything physical away - give the runner up access to the beta as well and call thehybrid's entry honorable mention and pick a new runner up.

Turning around and calling everyone bad losers is just poor.

[Silverspar]

Awen, it wasn't people were hurt because they didn't win and you seem to be misconstruing that point. People were hurt that despite a goodly portion followed the rules laid out at the ground setting, the contest entry was declared the winner yet it was clearly obvious, even without using a word counter, it was well over the 300 limit. That's like telling your contestants they can only have a go-kart to race in, but the winner came with a formula one racer and you allow it.

Yes, it's a good story, and with only a couple of exceptions, most everyone acknowledged that. However, people are upset because the rules were ignored in this case, which does cast doubt on the future rules observation the company will present to the gaming community as a whole. That's the issue at hand. Basically, if we can't trust you to stick to your guns you outline to us in crystal clear type, how can we believe you will do everything in the game in the future to keep our best interests at heart, such as preventing cheaters and so forth?

[Capn_Danger]

what silverspar said ^, especially the last bit

[Lennon]

where can we see the Runners up entry? :confused:
That one was 10,000 words.

[Bezurn]

The problem with a lottery contest of registered users is that I can (but honestly haven't) create as many usernames to this website as I have IPs / e-mails for. In this case disreputable individuals could create a higher chance of winning than if they have to actually submit a compelling creative work that is picked from a judge.

edit fixed typo!

[AdmiralWynn]

Agree with darthdonte, i myself was spurred to enter the competition by there being a prize of some kind on offer. Even creative people like a carrot - whats the point in randomly assigning 'prizes' to forum users?

No point at all. It's a clueless response from Awen.

We are talking about people's most important resource: time. When someone spends a lot of time on something creative, then loses to someone breaking the clearly stated rules, it is a THEFT of their time. And when people's complaints are derided, belittled and otherwise marginalized, the feeling of outrage is compounded.

Awen has made way too many mistakes, first in the 'Planet Exploration' contest and now here. I also think the way the controversy around ship interiors was handled was ugly.

This is an unforgiving biz, and anyone in it should take heat with grace. Blaming people who are honestly astonished and hurt by the way this contest was conducted is the last straw for me (and, clearly, many of us), and is why I call for Awen to go.

If Cryptic wants to hire rule-flouting cyber bullies to run their contests, then I have to start comparing their operation to companies I will never give another dime to... SOE and FunCom.

[SteveTheMeek]

That one was 10,000 words.

LOL!

And in russian.

very entertaining though.

Congrats!

[StraboV2]

She apologized admitted her mistake and told those in charge. I think that shows responsibility. Mistakes happen, it shouldn't lead to condemnation of Cryptic or Awen. I don't agree with the lottery idea mind you, we shouldn't limit creativity. But we should trust that this example would lead both sides to be more responsible in the future? Let's not keep playing the blame game over and over. It won't solve anything.

[CmdrWoof]

No point at all. It's a clueless response from Awen.

We are talking about people's most important resource: time. When someone spends a lot of time on something creative, then loses to someone breaking the clearly stated rules, it is a THEFT of their time. And when people's complaints are derided, belittled and otherwise marginalized, the feeling of outrage is compounded.

Awen has made way too many mistakes, first in the 'Planet Exploration' contest and now here. I also think the way the controversy around ship interiors was handled was ugly.

This is an unforgiving biz, and anyone in it should take heat with grace. Blaming people who are honestly astonished and hurt by the way this contest was conducted is the last straw for me (and, clearly, many of us), and is why I call for Awen to go.

If Cryptic wants to hire rule-flouting cyber bullies to run their contests, then I have to start comparing their operation to companies I will never give another dime to... SOE and FunCom.

Dude, chill. Calling for someone to be fired for this is just stupid.

vvvvv With respect, that doesn't by any means make it right... And I think many people are taking this too seriously... vvvvvv

[SteveTheMeek]

Dude, chill. Calling for someone to be fired for this is just stupid.

I've seen folks fired for less.

This is not a trivial matter.

Of course, it's up to Cryptic, they will deal with it themselves.

[IanD967]

Dude, chill. Calling for someone to be fired for this is just stupid.

i sort of agree with this.

calling for someone to be fired is pretty much out of line.

[BreachAndClear]

After seeing the most recent episode of 24, people make it sound as though Awen is Ethan Kanin. *Reference not important*

I don't see why creativity HAS to be fostered in a competition for a beta slot. I, like many others, was disappointed in that the winner was selected from an entry that had violated one of the contest rules. I think lotteries are the way to go. Even when the contest is only for a forum title (see contest #1, in which the runners up weren't announced) people still go at Cryptic's metaphorical throat over something so minor as a title.

No, lotteries are not perfect, but given the alternatives I think it is the way to go to keep the largest number of people happy. I think the only other way to go would be to hold contests as they have been held, only instead of Cryptic deciding the winner, they decide the best 2-3 and the the community votes the 1st place winner, with the runners up being the two that made it to the final three but lost. That way if a finalist doesn't adhere to the rules, and it passes under Cryptic's radar, the community can decide how to treat said entry by either collectively refusing to vote for it, or by deciding "Yes, this entry IS that good" and ignoring its failure to comply to the rules.

For those curious, it was also inherently involve allowing the community to read the entries that will ultimately be deemed runners up.

[lrdnova]

You know I normally don't get involved in community drama, but are you guys seriously kidding me....300 words vs 600. How petty are we as a community. yeah, the story did go over, but how long the story verses how good it is is irrelevant. During the Gettysburg address, the guy that was speaking before Lincoln, spoke for TWO HOURS, and yet no one remembers his name, Lincoln spoke for 45 minutes and that speech was what touched American so much that its still taught to this day, oh and btw he wrote on a napkin as he was coming by horse and buggy to Gettysburg.

When something is well written it doesn't need the power of size and length to support its self, all it needs to do is engage the reader and allow them to feel as though they are delving into the fiction that they are reading.

was there a mistake of course, will it happen again, well it appears practices are being put into place to prevent future mistakes. However what was the crime here, the fact that word counting took a back seat to an exciting and engaging story that caught the attention of others. tbh whether the story was 300 words or 600 whether the story took 45 minutes to read or 2 hours, is really irrelevant, I am sure that the rest of the stories where very good and for that I congratulate the hard work and thought that went into them, however what was accomplished was that this story attracted the attention of the people reading it and for that it was good.

Besides look at it this, so what if a 600 word story won, at least we will have more opportunities in the future to be that one winner! Not winning a Beta key is not the end of the world and last i checked everyone is aloud to make at least 1 mistake in their life and manage to not get the death penalty for it.

[AdmiralWynn]

I've seen folks fired for less.

This is not a trivial matter.

Of course, it's up to Cryptic, they will deal with it themselves.

It would be trivial if it were the first totally botched contest run by Awen. It isn't. Being able to learn from one's previous mistakes is important. Messing up again, acting defiantly, trying to distort the record... at what point do you say enough is enough?

Spare us a protracted debate and resign, Awen. It is the honorable thing to do.

[Shuichii]

i sort of agree with this.

calling for someone to be fired is pretty much out of line.

Nothing is more important, enigmatic, or powerful as PR. PR makes and breaks companies. If you think someone can’t be fired over a single mistake that causes bad PR look no further than Michel Phelps. He’s a living legend yet Kellogg’s dropped him like a hot potato the second his bong hit showed up on the internet. Creating a bad image for company with its core constituents is what Awen has done.

To paraphrase a certain Republican Senator recently, she should come before the public like the Japanese and take a long bow. Then either quit or . . . well I don’t have to finish that.

[Bezurn]

... During the Gettysburg address, the guy that was speaking before Lincoln, spoke for TWO HOURS, and yet no one remembers his name, Lincoln spoke for 45 minutes and that speech was what touched American so much that its still taught to this day, oh and btw he wrote on a napkin as he was coming by horse and buggy to Gettysburg.

There was nothing to be won in the Gettysburg address. There were no rules for length of the speech. In my humblest opinion you're comparing apples to oranges. However, in this contest, these things are clearly defined and in multiple instances stated within the rules, the winning entry is deemed invalid to be judged.

[Dext]

You know I normally don't get involved in community drama, but are you guys seriously kidding me....300 words vs 600. How petty are we as a community. yeah, the story did go over, but how long the story verses how good it is is irrelevant. During the Gettysburg address, the guy that was speaking before Lincoln, spoke for TWO HOURS, and yet no one remembers his name, Lincoln spoke for 45 minutes and that speech was what touched American so much that its still taught to this day, oh and btw he wrote on a napkin as he was coming by horse and buggy to Gettysburg.

When something is well written it doesn't need the power of size and length to support its self, all it needs to do is engage the reader and allow them to feel as though they are delving into the fiction that they are reading.

was there a mistake of course, will it happen again, well it appears practices are being put into place to prevent future mistakes. However what was the crime here, the fact that word counting took a back seat to an exciting and engaging story that caught the attention of others. tbh whether the story was 300 words or 600 whether the story took 45 minutes to read or 2 hours, is really irrelevant, I am sure that the rest of the stories where very good and for that I congratulate the hard work and thought that went into them, however what was accomplished was that this story attracted the attention of the people reading it and for that it was good.

Besides look at it this, so what if a 600 word story won, at least we will have more opportunities in the future to be that one winner! Not winning a Beta key is not the end of the world and last i checked everyone is aloud to make at least 1 mistake in their life and manage to not get the death penalty for it.

It would be one this if it was like 20-30-40 or even 50 words over but 309 that is a bit much an a lot more people would have add better story's if they did not cut them down to the 300.

[BreachAndClear]

It would be trivial if it were the first totally botched contest run by Awen. It isn't. Being able to learn from one's previous mistakes is important. Messing up again, acting defiantly, trying to distort the record... at what point do you say enough is enough?

Spare us a protracted debate and resign, Awen. It is the honorable thing to do.

Oh come on now. Awen is not some elected official that we can, with any sense of entitlement, demand the resignation from. Awen has made it clear that all of the judges loved the story, so any fault that exists in this one contest seems to rest on them all. And at the end of the day, a message board is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship, whether it be benevolent or malevolent; and I'd say overall Awen has done a great job at being tolerant and interacting with the community. People may be welcomed here, but they don't have a right to be here. Yes, this contest was a flub (IMO), but the contest itself is a luxury, not something that your rights dictate must be provided.

No good is going to come out of demanding her resignation. And, if for no other reason than your own good, I would recommend stopping.

[OrangeDragon]

It would be trivial if it were the first totally botched contest run by Awen. It isn't. Being able to learn from one's previous mistakes is important. Messing up again, acting defiantly, trying to distort the record... at what point do you say enough is enough?

Spare us a protracted debate and resign, Awen. It is the honorable thing to do.

I'm sorry, exactly who do you think you are to be demanding someones resignation? At this point, you're not even a customer. You're a potential customer for a game that doesn't even have an official release date yet. Get over yourself.

I entered this contest and honestly, I'm very disappointed at how it was handled. However, the completely ignorant way certain members of the community behaved is exactly why I don't participate in online forums very often. I doubt I could do Awen's job because most of the forum users would be perma-banned.

The contest was handled badly. The response to the ensuing outrage was also handled badly (a very human reaction, but bad nonetheless). An apology was issued. The continued foolishness of certain forumites is just ridiculous.

[Coldsteel6d]

Well i was the runner up on this one. I can post my entry somewhere or send it via PM if anyone wants to see it.

It was originally around 450 words but I hacked the crap out of it to make it fit. Got most of the content in there but not so much in the way of flavor like the winner did. I liked the way he set the mood and atmosphere of the story. Mine is more dry but maybe more unique in the idea behind it. Although i have to admit I liked the bit on how they kept the Borg at bay in the winners piece.

Although I hate to see someone win that went way out of bounds I am glad that this company has these sorts of contests. I have been in many beta tests and its always through sheer luck of the draw that I get in. Never had a chance to earn a slot.

So I hope I get another chance to earn my slot and not get a "You have been selected at random to participate!" auto email one day.

Oh and I am sorry for the delay in the posting of the winner for this contest. They had to email me to get my forum name as I forgot to put it on my entry.

[Traveller]

hehehe I forgot to put mine on aswell I think.

[Draighwulf]

To paraphrase a certain Republican Senator recently, she should come before the public like the Japanese and take a long bow. Then either quit or . . . well I don’t have to finish that.

It's probably best you didn't finish it, even better if you'd never said it to be honest considering what the senator's original remark was

I hoped this community would be more star trek and less WoW.. looks like I was wrong.

A mistake was made, and admitted to. An aplogy was given and they're stated an alternative to avoid future mistakes of this sort

That should be enough for people to accept and stop acting like posters in the wow class forums when a patch is due

[Elanel]

When I first saw the winning entry I was surprised by the length of it, but not angered to any degree. It's hard to get emotionally invested sat in an office by yourself at 5am, trying to fix the problems your colleagues left you the night before.

When I sat down to write my entry I really couldn't get it to within 300 words and still regard it as an acceptable piece of writing. When I kept reading it back, it just read poorly. I didn't want to submit something I wasn't prepared to vote for myself, so I didn't submit anything. I don't regret the decision either because in the end it's not worth losing sleep over. None of this is. I just chalk it up to poor creative writing skills on my part.

Anyway, you live & learn in this world. Those who never make mistakes are destined to make nothing with their lives, so I think really it's about moving on from this affair and showing a little forgiveness. The game is still a way off from release and there will be plenty of time to enter future contests and hope for a beta slot.

[Bezurn]

Well i was the runner up on this one. I can post my entry somewhere or send it via PM if anyone wants to see it.

It was originally around 450 words but I hacked the crap out of it to make it fit. Got most of the content in there but not so much in the way of flavor like the winner did. I liked the way he set the mood and atmosphere of the story. Mine is more dry but maybe more unique in the idea behind it. Although i have to admit I liked the bit on how they kept the Borg at bay in the winners piece.

Although I hate to see someone win that went way out of bounds I am glad that this company has these sorts of contests. I have been in many beta tests and its always through sheer luck of the draw that I get in. Never had a chance to earn a slot.

So I hope I get another chance to earn my slot and not get a "You have been selected at random to participate!" auto email one day.

Oh and I am sorry for the delay in the posting of the winner for this contest. They had to email me to get my forum name as I forgot to put it on my entry.

Congratulations on the runner up prize Coldsteel! I would love to read your entry. There is a post in the holodeck forum where participants in the contest have already posted their entries. I hope you earn or win a slot in beta for this game!

edit - link to the entires on Holodeck forum can be found here
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=16992

[Moryan_Sorg]

In almost every setting I've been in, a word limit just give the reader the right to make the decision to not read it or stop reading at any point. When I'm writing grant proposals I am fully aware of this. If I go over, I know that it better be interesting enough for the reviewer to keep reading, or my proposal will be incomplete. Sometimes it's a risk i'm willing to or have to take.

The same applies to this contest. The response was well written enough in Awen's mind that she would still give him the victory. It was worth reading to her and the people she gave it to. The author took a risk and was rewarded, sounds like someone I know, Kirk maybe?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/sinnatra_2007/wwckd-what-would-captain-kirk-do.jpg

[USS_Parallax]

In almost every setting I've been in, a word limit just give the reader the right to make the decision to not read it or stop reading at any point. When I'm writing grant proposals I am fully aware of this. If I go over, I know that it better be interesting enough for the reviewer to keep reading, or my proposal will be incomplete. Sometimes it's a risk i'm willing to or have to take.

The same applies to this contest. The response was well written enough in her mind that she would still give him the victory. It was worth reading to her and the people she gave it to. The author took a risk and was rewarded, sounds like someone I know, Kirk maybe?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/sinnatra_2007/wwckd-what-would-captain-kirk-do.jpg

That might work for a good story or school but in real life contests it's a no no. Kirk in real life would have gone to prison long ago. And his cheating would have landed him an F grade. :P

[Flatfingers]

I didn't enter the Alien Identification Contest -- I mention that so that there'll be no complaints that what I say next is motivated by direct self-interest.

1. The rules of the contest which many submitters say they followed should have been enforced. Not to do so sets a bad precendent, not just for a forum contest, but for an online gameworld as well.

Will there be rules of conduct inside Star Trek Online that Cryptic chooses not to enforce for some players?

I assume that won't be the case, but a reasonable person watching how even a simple forum contest is handled might wonder.

How well Cryptic is seen to enforce the rules of play in a game forum contest sends a message about how it can be expected to handle the rules of play in the actual gameworld.

2. I thought some people overreacted. I don't defend that. But I hold a community rep to a higher standard. I expect more deliberation before posting, particularly when the subject is something that's got people worked up.

Chastizing community members for the way in which they expressed their disappointment is understandable. But it couldn't help but come across as criticizing them for the reason for their disappointment, which was that someone who didn't follow the rules they followed would be rewarded. That seems doubly unfair.

Better might have been to hold off on all official responses to community members on this matter until the community reps and producers had a chance to discuss what happened and why, and to form a reasonable plan for responding to valid community concerns.

Declaring that contests were now done with, and that a lottery might be the replacement, seems like an overreaction, even if it was a decision imposed from On High. (Implying that this decision was the fault of community members expressing their unhappiness with how the contest was managed, however, was particularly unhelpful.) Surely there were better ways of addressing the problem of contest rule enforcement?

As a constructive suggestion -- assuming the possibility of contests is reconsidered -- I'd recommend having a intern enter any contest just like a regular forum member. When their submission is received, sit down with them and ask them why they wrote it as they did. If there was some rule that they followed that had gone unnoticed or been forgotten, this conversation will serve as a useful reminder of the expectations that regular forum members are likely to hold.

In other words, treat a contest much like you would a change to a code file for the game: submit it to peer review before announcing a winner. That's how bugs are prevented from biting one's customers -- nothing's perfect, but peer review is immensely helpful.

At any rate, I'm sorry this contest blew up into something not fun for anyone. It's unfortunate for everyone -- those who entered the contest, those who won it, and those who administered it.

Third time's the charm?

--Flatfingers

[BreachAndClear]

In almost every setting I've been in, a word limit just give the reader the right to make the decision to not read it or stop reading at any point. When I'm writing grant proposals I am fully aware of this. If I go over, I know that it better be interesting enough for the reviewer to keep reading, or my proposal will be incomplete. Sometimes it's a risk i'm willing to or have to take.

The same applies to this contest. The response was well written enough in her mind that she would still give him the victory. It was worth reading to her and the people she gave it to. The author took a risk and was rewarded, sounds like someone I know, Kirk maybe?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/sinnatra_2007/wwckd-what-would-captain-kirk-do.jpg

That would be another way of solving the issue. Instead of stipulating that players must adhere to the rules (which include a 300 word limit) or have their entry be disqualified. Stipulate that Cryptic guarantees that the first 300 words of every entry will be read, but anything beyond that is read at their discretion. Such that if you're really creative in the later stages of your entry you're taking a risk in whether or not you've held the reader's interest that long.

[Moryan_Sorg]

That might work for a good story or school but in real life contests it's a no no. Kirk in real life would have gone to prison long ago. And his cheating would have landed him an F grade. :P

Grant proposals aren't real life? That's not what NASA and the fed government tell me. :D

[Angelphoenix12]

Granted, I actually do think that random lotteries are, in the interest of fairness, the best way to go.

However, if people REALLY don't want to sacrifice creativity, such "contests" could always be relegated to games held just for fun. I mean, there's no reward for the Kobiyashi Maru segments, right? Though I realize that no winner in declared in those posts.

If a winner is declared in a contest that is just for fun, then I don't think they'd result in nearly as much animosity toward the judges and managers of such a competition when they make mistakes. Or maybe they just get something simple like a T-shirt mailed to them or some other inexhaustible reward, such that players aren't competing for a limited number of beta slots.

i agree with this, i think we should have contest like the kobiyashi maru. they are fun do to.
the only reason i didnt submit to the ailen pic contest because i really couldnt comeup with any for it. unlike the pic with the planet. would i like to have my story rewarded honestily no, i would rather have the com reps like it and send a message to me.

as far as awen i like how she runs these boards and contests. and i hope she keeps up the awsome work she as done so far.

[Sjet]

Grant proposals aren't real life? That's not what NASA and the fed government tell me. :D

I'm not sure how you roped together Kirk's breaking the rules, which was almost always to help people, to taking chances with grant proposal documents in relation to the rules broken in the contest.

They don't seem similar to me at least.

[Citationpilot]

I know I don't post much but I try to read up between flights. After catchin up on this topic on the multiple threads, I think I should drop my recommendation.

Cryptic,give Awen a raise or some paid vacation or something!

You couldn't pay me enough to take this kind of repeated lashinig and not lose it. I understand both sides of the conflict, but come on is it really worth making someones life miserable? Yeah, obvious mistakes were made, and everyone has a point. It was a good story... the guy used 609 words... blah blah blah....

If I was the one that messed up, I would have jotted down a black-list of the mouthy folks labeled "snowballs chance in hell of getting a slot." And If I was the runner-up I'd have a beef.

Just remember:

It's just a game, you didnt get ripped off by Madoff or beaten by ol Chris Brown. Each of us was born with inalienable rights but playing STO or getting a Beta slot was not one of them.

And

Now we all have and idea of what every other command officer that graduated around the same time of J.T.Kirk felt like! If your mad, take that anger and embrace it and you will become more powerful than... wait wrong series... well do whatever Picard would do.

BOATS AND H*ES!!!

[Hagon]

Who cares how long it was? Its just a fun little contest. It's not anything else. I think some should really check themselves and stop blowing this way way way way out of proportion, and those coming down on Awen over such a silly and inconsequential matter should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. Some of the things I've read from people upset about this minor thing have frankly made me embarrassed to be part of this community.

[marscentral]

Who cares how long it was? Its just a fun little contest. It's not anything else. I think some should really check themselves and stop blowing this way way way way out of proportion, and those coming down on Awen over such a silly and inconsequential matter should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. Some of the things I've read from people upset about this minor thing have frankly made me embarrassed to be part of this community.

Amen brother. Frankly, I think Awen needs a medal (and probably a stiff drink) for putting up with some of this. It's supposed to be fun, they'll probably be handing out the beta slots like sweets nearer the time anyway.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Who cares how long it was?

The people who actually took the time to follow the rules, just maybe? :o

[SelorKiith]

The people who actually took the time to follow the rules, just maybe? :o

I'd follow the rules and I don't care... ;)

[Angelphoenix12]

Who cares how long it was? Its just a fun little contest. It's not anything else. I think some should really check themselves and stop blowing this way way way way out of proportion, and those coming down on Awen over such a silly and inconsequential matter should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. Some of the things I've read from people upset about this minor thing have frankly made me embarrassed to be part of this community.

this is my very 1st community forum ive post as much as i have. the pervoius was the tabula rasa beta boards. but ive personally havent been this embarressed on a website. this contest was ment to be fun and exciting. i hoped that awen would have done a contest with a starship or something else. i personally hope that awen continues to do a awsome job.

[TreffnonX]

I'd follow the rules and I don't care... ;)

So did I but nevertheless i can understand how people are upset about it. It became a critical mess the moment a prize as valued as a closed beta key was put in and that's were people took it very presice...
I too think it was not worth it but it happened nevertheles and the consequences are pretty obvious.
I only hope that Awen will reconsider giving the beta keys out randomly, because i still think people who can write good stuff should have a reason to do so. Also i hope that the mistake won't be repeated and that next time should there be a next time, awen will doublecheck if everything went according to rules.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I'd follow the rules and I don't care... ;)

Thats great. But the funny thing about life is that everyone doesnt share the same opinion as you, and that doesnt make them wrong :o

[SelorKiith]

Thats great. But the funny thing about life is that everyone doesnt share the same opinion as you, and that doesnt make them wrong :o

I just wanted to provide an example for the opposite ;)

[djnattyd]

How many words was it over the limit by?

People are acting like it's the end of the world, it was only a competition for a beta slot on a game that you're going to buy anyway, are you really that desperate to be the first through the door that you can't wait till open beta or until it's released? I think people should relax and realise that the world will still exist when they wake up in the morning, even though the winner went over the 300 word limit. I also think you need to lay of Awen, did you notice how she said it was chosen by the Judges? That means that it wasn't just Awen that chose the winner, but others too.

As for calling for her to be sacked... Grow up! This isn't AIG, she hasn't reduced the value of your house, lost billions of dollars, then been given billons of tax payer money and then awarded herself a nice fat bonus for failing has she? Some of you seem to have a superiority complex and believe that you deserve some kind of preferential treatment. She said sorry what more do you want, a solid gold Enterprise model and lifesize sculpture of Gene Roddenbery?


To be honest, i thought it was pretty good, i know there was some grammar issues with it but on my first read through i actually thought he'd written it that way so as to prove the fact that not all aliens are fully understood by the Universal Translator.

[Elanel]

Amen brother. Frankly, I think Awen needs a medal (and probably a stiff drink) for putting up with some of this. It's supposed to be fun, they'll probably be handing out the beta slots like sweets nearer the time anyway.

I agree as well. I think there are far more important things to get worked up about than this or any contest. Awen & all involved do a fine job keeping the community entertained on a regular basis with new information & competitions on a near daily basis.

There are ways of pointing out mistakes and ways of expressing disappointment that can be articulate & polite, whilst conveying the appropriate feelings. Some of the language and behavior of members leads me to suspect they neither deserve a beta slot or continued membership to this site.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

How many words was it over the limit by?

The limit was 300, the winning story was 609. As far as the rest of your post,

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=430874#post430874

Easier than retyping :o

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I agree as well. I think there are far more important things to get worked up about than this or any contest.

Funny thing is, people are worked up on both sides. People are worked up about how the contest was handled, and other people are worked up about how the first group is worked up. The second group just seems to think their the only ones who have a right to get worked up about something they disagree with :o

[whatinblueblazes]

<copied from my post on the 'other' Contest thread>

While this contest was the unfortunate victim of human error (which we're all subject to from time to time), I would urge everybody here to remember that the outcome of a single contest has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the product that Cryptic is producing. The forum team is not the development team. Regardless of your feelings about the community and the management thereof, any opinions about STO should be based on STO itself, rather than its forums.

If all games or other projects were to be judged based on their online forums, I can think of precious few that would meet with any approval.

I understand the confusion and even some of the anger surrounding this incident; a contest's rules should remain firm when they are so explicitly worded. What I don't understand is how some individuals here can take a couple of honest mistakes and declare that they are grounds for boycotting STO or cutting people's jobs. Awen has been very honest and forthright about what has happened. There's been no attempt to conceal the truth. She has apologized, and it seems to me that she's trying to work with the community to ensure that this problem is dealt with, now and henceforth.

I don't agree with the solution Awen has proposed, namely that all contests will become lotteries. I think that is something of an overreaction to a problem that can readily be solved. A year or two ago, there was a contest (unrelated to STO) to write a "Kirk versus Picard" script. In that contest, peer reviews and votes counted for a great deal. I think that opening a limited number of Cryptic-selected entries to community votes would be the best policy in the future. That way, we can more easily police entries to ensure they are within contest rules, and we have only ourselves to blame when we do not win.

I'm sorry that there are so many hurt feelings over this. In my opinion, we should pick up the pieces and move on -- leave any grudges or unpleasantries behind. This is a game community. There's no need for any of this vitriol.

[Varlician]

here i was trying to do the decent thing and read all the replies, and every time i went to the next page, there were two more! so sorry if i'm repeating what someone has already stated.

It's good that an appology came, but not good that there still seems to be no acceptence that the short story shouldn't have won. Yes it was a good story, and i've already congratulated the winner, but the point is, if it had been 300 words like the others, it probably wouldn't have been so good.
I think it's necessary here to point out that everyone is saying all this about this person's story, which i repeat, WAS GOOD, but maybe someone should spare a thought for how the winner is feeling now that the community seems to be showing all this anger towards him/her... i know if it was me, i wouldn't want to show my face.

Another point to be made would be that people say here that they're not complaining because they've lost a shot at Beta, but because it was judged infairly... why then are people saying they don't want a lottery for Beta? It doesn't stop there still being competitions for stories to go up on the front page of the site, that in itself is mainly the reason i entered the competition, yes it'd be nice to win a slot at Beta, but that wasn't my main reason for entering.

So, in all honesty, i fully agree with Awen's decision to do a lottery based on registered users to pick beta, but please don't stop the creative contests!
All i'd say, is that perhaps people just want an acknowledgement that it was unfairly judged (although i suppose you've already done that in not so many words.)

I'd like to also point out that Awen is a person, not a God (Although some may think so :p) everyone makes mistakes, and the 'attack' back at the community and blaming the community, isn't Awen allowed to get angry at the way people were acting?

But as has been said, let's live and learn. If people aren't big enough to learn from this and move forwards, (as Awen has done herself) then what hope have we got as a community. We're at the start of a journey together, lets learn to get on well now because if we can't, well i bagsy the cryo-stasis bed until arrival at destination.

EDIT: I'd just like to point out cos some people seem to be missing this having been said, (it was buried half way through the posts) the Lottery will be based on registered users, not a lottery of contest entries (if there were further contests, these would be judged by the book i believe, not by lottery.)

NB: Awen - maybe this can be edited on the opening page? so that it clears up the confusion? :o

[Moryan_Sorg]

I'm not sure how you roped together Kirk's breaking the rules, which was almost always to help people, to taking chances with grant proposal documents in relation to the rules broken in the contest.

They don't seem similar to me at least.

This'll show you exactly how they relate:

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/captain-james-t-kirk-awesome1.jpg

[DarthWarth]

I share what seems to be the majority of the forum members opinion that this was judged unfairly. However I've said my piece and that, along with Awen's apology, is enough for me. Calling for Awen's resignation is going too far guys IMO. I'm sure it's a tough role, and sure mistakes were made, but Awen overall is a good intermediary between us and the dev team. I know I wouldn't want to take on the role that's for sure.

[Elanel]

Funny thing is, people are worked up on both sides. People are worked up about how the contest was handled, and other people are worked up about how the first group is worked up. The second group just seems to think their the only ones who have a right to get worked up about something they disagree with :o

Well I do mean people on all sides of the argument. I've read queries from members about the 300 words rule that seemed polite and reasonable to me. It's the few who take things just a little too far and personally [in all camps] that need to get a tighter grip of their horses. Our right to expression is guaranteed and the right to ban individuals is reserved, so if people wish to express their anger and still be heard on the other side of it, they need to temper themselves and follow the old rule of not posting anything they wouldn't find intolerable themselves.

[Loekii]

Congrats to the Winners.

Kudos to Awen for acknowledging the error.

It is a PR contest, not an election. It is supposed to be for 'fun', and no reason to be so petty about it. There are things in life, where we let things 'slide' -- PeeWee sports, girlfriends playing Pool, forgiveness loans to children and parents, splitting the check at dinner, speeding, being late to work, leaving early, reading the STO forums while on the clock, etc.

Everyone has things slide their way at one point or another in their life. This is just another example of that. Cut them some slack.

[eNDIE]

Hmm one big live beta lottery would be cool for the first wave of beta keys:) everyone could watch and hope that their name would pop up:)

[NeoWolf]

Well I don't know about anyone else but I was there on the frontlines when they had not admitted the mistake and were indeed attacking us for having the cheek to point out the error...tempers were high all round and rightly so.

But then Awen admitted the mistake and apologised and that for me was the end of it.

The responsible thing was done, they handled it poorly initially, but did their best to end it on a positive by doing the right thing and really for everyone that should be enough, time to move on.

Regarding calls for her to be fired or to resign, I must have missed those, but that is certainly an overreaction. she made a mistake, she is only human and she does a tough job for which we mostly cut her little slack and that was merely a temporary hiccup in the scheme of things that she has as I say apologised for.

Also although the circumstances under which he won were less than idea thanks to said hiccup, TheHybrid's entry nevertheless was an enjoyable read, and none of this was his fault, so I would hope everyone, as I did, at least has the good grace to congratulate him if nothing else.

I have spoken to him earlier and he was willing to forgoe his beta spot to make things right with US the community if we thought we had been sleighted by him personally, which I think was a very selfless and sincere gesture and not one any of us would truly wish him to take.

I know this hasn't been a good situation for any of us who took part in the contest, but the apology has been made, the virtual olive branch offered, the lesson learned and the message recieved.

With that in mind I would ask that we all allow the matter to now rest with the best of intentions and the hopes that future competitons will occur with less controversy, and now instead return to what we all do best and anticipate this game and its features.

PAX

[KnightofKhonshu]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

[DarthWarth]

There are things in life, where we let things 'slide' -- PeeWee sports, girlfriends playing Pool

lol I love that

[eNDIE]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

The bitternes is strong in thatone:)

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

Why? Do you have a problem with the public knowing what happened?

[Dahakra]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

Not that I actually agree with what was there, but I'm curious as to why you would "Encourage all to delete it" when you've already done so? Unless of course Khonshuknight is someone else. I'm also curious as to why you would want to deny the general public access to such information?

just a though or two ;)

- Dahakra

[SteveTheMeek]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

And why exactly, if I may inquire?

I was there on the frontlines, too, as NeoWolf has nicely put it, and that is precisely what happened.
Exact and fair account.

[MagnusTyrel]

I tried to read every post in this thread but im afraid I only got to page 8 before I had to post, Although the winning entery is over 300 words im upset on how it has been handeled and responded to by the admin and the fans, tbh i couldnt care less what the prize for the contest is even if there is one, I personaly dont have a computer at the moment so wouldnt be able to use the beta even if I won it, I entered because the competition was fun....

Congrats to the winner again, I liked the story mostly but then I was rather upset about the 600 words so no dought my opinion was jaded...

Hats off to Awen who admitted her mistake, it takes a brave person too stand up to the wolves and take it, I personaly think that giving Beta keys as prizes is a mistake and even handing them out randomly is rather misguided, I think that the recognition of winning is reward enough and I will continue to enter the contests beta access or not...

Keep on making these great contests, I do hope you learn from your mistakes and that is good enough for me keep up the good work...

[KnightofKhonshu]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

[Loekii]

In my opinion, the bummer is the lost time for other stuff that Awen has to put off to handle this, like poking Kestrel with the 'Wheres the Gorn Fiction' stick. :D

[topekaguy1988]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

How about you quit vandalising the STO Wikipedia page :mad:

[eNDIE]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

well it hasnt gone to that point yet but i can see it coming:/

[SteveTheMeek]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

Vindictive whiney trolls?
You mean like:

"I am quite ashamed that instead of congratulating the winner on his awesome story, there is quite a few of you who are complaining that his story went over the 300 words. That indicates poor sportsmanship to me and also takes away the joy of our contest winner.

He won, because the story was the best out of the hundreds that we received. The entire team enjoyed it immensely.

I will be talking to Zinc today. Further contests will most likely be a random lottery due to this bent in the conversation. - Makes me sad."

ho hum

[KnightofKhonshu]

How about you quit vandalising the STO Wikipedia page :mad:

Tried subtle delete, now trying shame.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

Here is the wiki article, line by line. Lets see exactly which is fact and which is opinion:

----------------------------

Cryptic has held several community contests that award a guaranteed slot in the closed Beta.[20]

True

The latest involved a contest to tell the story of a new alien species.[21]

True

The contest rules stipulated that the entry could not be more than 300 words,[22] yet the winning story was 609 words.[23]

True

Many in the community were upset that the judges not only seemed to ignore their own contest rules, but also appeared to blame the community for being upset.[24]

Now, had the above statements not included the words "seemed" and "appeared", this would have been opinion. However, since it does, these statements are true, as that is indeed exactly how it SEEMED.

The Dev team has since appologized to the community and stated that future contest winners will be selected by random lottery.[25]

Also true.

---------------------------------------

Everything in the wiki is true. If you dont like it, sorry.

[Dahakra]

Wish to stop community looking like vindictive whiney trolls on wikipedia. Guess you all happy with that representing you.

The wikipedia doesn't represent me or anybody else. Its supposed to be a repository of knowledge, as informative and truthful as possible. Its not up to you to decide what information people have access to. I would say that your action is directly against the spirit of the wikipedia project.

- Dahakra

[Lennon]

Here is the wiki article, line by line. Lets see exactly which is fact and which is opinion:

----------------------------

Cryptic has held several community contests that award a guaranteed slot in the closed Beta.[20]

True

The latest involved a contest to tell the story of a new alien species.[21]

True

The contest rules stipulated that the entry could not be more than 300 words,[22] yet the winning story was 609 words.[23]

True

Many in the community were upset that the judges not only seemed to ignore their own contest rules, but also appeared to blame the community for being upset.[24]

Now, had the above statements not included the words "seemed" and "appeared", this would have been opinion. However, since it does, these statements are true, as that is indeed exactly how it SEEMED.

The Dev team has since appologized to the community and stated that future contest winners will be selected by random lottery.[25]

Also true.

---------------------------------------

Everything in the wiki is true. If you dont like it, sorry.
Stop clouding the agrument with facts.

[DarthWarth]

Stop clouding the agrument with facts.

rofl, perfect politicians response.

[KnightofKhonshu]

Here is the wiki article, line by line. Lets see exactly which is fact and which is opinion:

----------------------------

Cryptic has held several community contests that award a guaranteed slot in the closed Beta.[20]

True Two not several

The latest involved a contest to tell the story of a new alien species.[21]

True

The contest rules stipulated that the entry could not be more than 300 words,[22] yet the winning story was 609 words.[23]

True

Many in the community were upset that the judges not only seemed to ignore their own contest rules, but also appeared to blame the community for being upset.[24] Many not a number, holds no account. Also fails to mention all those who are happy.

Now, had the above statements not included the words "seemed" and "appeared", this would have been opinion. However, since it does, these statements are true, as that is indeed exactly how it SEEMED. Speculation. These are not facts but people's opinions. Wikipedia supposed to be facts not opinion, this is why people do not trust it.

The Dev team has since appologized to the community and stated that future contest winners will be selected by random lottery.[25]

Also true. Awen has suggested this as a possibility. May still change her mind.

---------------------------------------

Everything in the wiki is true. If you dont like it, sorry.

Rebuttle in quote.

Main point about controversy is opinion and tattle. Fact is "sky is blue" or "fire is hot". "Many people unhappy" is opinion.

[KnightofKhonshu]

Washing hands of you now. Only a fool debates a fool and I not fool.

Leave you to Khonshu's mercy. When you cry for salvation, we will say "no".

[Lennon]

Leave you to Khonshu's mercy. When you cry for salvation, we will say "no".
Awwwww man, no salvation. Sad boosh.

[Rgoodfel]

Even though I did not put an entry into this contest. I really believe that Awen made a mistake and owned up to it which is fine with me. Although it does sadden me that all contests will now just be lotteries. Personally I think a mix of both is best. But feelings have been hurt, policies decided, and guess we have to live with what has been done.

[Spacemanspiff]

I say Cryptic makes it up to us by releasing some new info on the game and we can call it even. :D

[Cormoran]

Washing hands of you now. Only a fool debates a fool and I not fool.

Leave you to Khonshu's mercy. When you cry for salvation, we will say "no".

cry for salvation? we will say no? did..... did you just try to end a debate with roleplay?
wow, just when you think you've seen it all.

[SteveTheMeek]

cry for salvation? we will say no? did..... did you just try to end a debate with roleplay?
wow, just when you think you've seen it all.

fekkin LOLOL!

[Lord_Xomic]

Even though I did not put an entry into this contest. I really believe that Awen made a mistake and owned up to it which is fine with me. Although it does sadden me that all contests will now just be lotteries. Personally I think a mix of both is best. But feelings have been hurt, policies decided, and guess we have to live with what has been done.

I didn't enter either, but to be frank, I'd like to know how Awen didn't realize that the story was double the set length.

I mean, it's one thing to simply forget, but surely you would have picked up on the fact that the majority of entries were half the length? I mean, that seems like a pretty big error.

I don't like the lottery idea, because it means that anyone, skilled or no, can enter and win.

The real solution, I think, is to do something nice for all the people who entered the contest with legal-length entries, and just be more careful next time with the judging.

[EremiticWolf]

LOL
Flame me or disagree with me, I don't care. Here is my 2 cents.

Reading some of these responses, you would think most people here have never made a mistake. She admitted her mistake, told the higher ups, and and apologized, that is enough for me.

I can see some of the responses if the contest gave money, but it's a beta slot. I mean heck ya I want to be in beta, but if I don't win a beta slot I am still going to buy the game and play, simple as that. :)

[SteveTheMeek]

I didn't enter either, but to be frank, I'd like to know how Awen didn't realize that the story was double the set length.

I mean, it's one thing to simply forget, but surely you would have picked up on the fact that the majority of entries were half the length? I mean, that seems like a pretty big error.



Precisely. A blunder.

The very first thing you do, unless you are mentally challenged, is look at the entries and throw away the ones that do not meet the requirements. either because they are too long, or written in a foreign language or DRAWN, or whatever. That's what you do. You begin with cutting down the enormous pile of entries that you have to go through!

[AdmiralWynn]

Vindictive whiney trolls?
You mean like:

"I am quite ashamed that instead of congratulating the winner on his awesome story, there is quite a few of you who are complaining that his story went over the 300 words. That indicates poor sportsmanship to me and also takes away the joy of our contest winner.

He won, because the story was the best out of the hundreds that we received. The entire team enjoyed it immensely.

I will be talking to Zinc today. Further contests will most likely be a random lottery due to this bent in the conversation. - Makes me sad."

ho hum

That was what made me call for Awen to resign... hardly the reply of a mature person, in a paid position that requires contact with the public.

But, again, this isn't the first time Awen has botched a contest, and it's worth pointing out again. Flagrantly breaking the rules, then getting snippy when called on it... not too professional.

STO already had a black eye, now it has two.

Then there is the way the controversies over player crews and ships interiors were handled in these forums. I find it interesting that the same little group of posters jump forward to defend Awen/STO each time.

Awen, do the right thing and resign. This is not the right job for you, that seems clear.

[CherryTerri]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

I prefer creativity contests. I like to see what you guys come up with. It gives me a nice break from reading the forums or generating content. :) I often laugh and spend the day smiling when I read something funny. Don't think that I don't read them and believe that you guys are super awesome. I do. But when things get out of hand, either on my part or yours, it makes the hassle much less worth the effort right? This was an honest mistake on my part and I'll defend my decision to award this winner to my last breath simply because the enjoyment factor by all was immense.

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

It also is a bit bothersome to think that EVERYONE who didn't win was royally upset.

I didn't win. I'm over it. If I got annoyed at every little thing I'd be in the hospital.

As I said in another thread, if you are keeping a FEW angry people in mind to not make contests for fun, then I am quite disappointed. Forums are a SLIM percent of players in a game, amd more that just lurk.

I like the idea of Cryptic choosing a number of entries that were by the rules, and setting it up for the players to choose w/o showing vote choices.

I've been in forum lotteries before. Waste of caring IMO. How many people register? Unless you feel like making sure IPs don't overlap (person making tons of names to get a chance) not sure how that will work.

[Angelphoenix12]

That was what made me call for Awen to resign... hardly the reply of a mature person, in a paid position that requires contact with the public.

But, again, this isn't the first time Awen has botched a contest, and it's worth pointing out again. Flagrantly breaking the rules, then getting snippy when called on it... not too professional.

STO already had a black eye, now it has two.

Then there is the way the controversies over player crews and ships interiors were handled in these forums. I find it interesting that the same little group of posters jump forward to defend Awen/STO each time.

Awen, do the right thing and resign. This is not the right job for you, that seems clear.

i have a question for you this is in no way shap or form a flame but, have you ever made a mistake? awen is human she can make mistakes. to call for her to resigh over this a bit childish. another question for you, are you really going to buy this game? but these are just my thoughts.

[SenshiBat]

Only a Beta slot not a lifetime free membership.. You think that's a fair assessment..

[yes your honor that is correct]

So the angst was for a
beta not the whole product..
Yes Sir.

So, Awen is in a Kobayashi MAru if she awards/ rewards a win the winner can politely accept or gloat but its still a beta and those that didn't win this time or last time can still find an imperfection.


So it's impossible theoretically for every Forum Resident to gain a Beta Slot and people were aware of this fact?

Yes, Your Honor That is correct.

...End Program.........

Very Good Cadet we will look at your files and come to a decision..
the jury is reminded not to discuss the case outside the holodeck..

Thank You Awen for trying... It was an overwhelming task to begin with even with three people and a normal work routine this sort of task is daunting..
Maybe a Coder can form a Random Number sub-routine and you hit the space bar then award a Avatar tag
just to keep things fun as the Beta posse is desperate as the CO one... ?

[Lennon]

Give everyone who entered a beta slot then the Awen fan club would be at max capacity.

[SenshiBat]

Awen and Iron Angel could change boards for a day and recharge...
I personally edited my story by over 50% and changed most of the dynamic i usually use to do it.. to fit a fair set of rules.. I had once ask Awen to do a Blue Book Style Essay..

I simply can't write the same way here as my own Admin Moderator-Star Trek Board access allows me.

The Thesaurus and phrase censor here can be poor and I cannot discuss infractions due to the poor translation review they use here..
Me a grievance.. No Questions yes.

Yet I still enter as a lark..

I like the winners. I do not resent any of them.. all have points of interest.

A Random Lotto of Legal users fine..Accounts- one Account by Law one entry simple.
problem solved.

The constant need to vent and challenge authority is satisfied here for many for another day..
The catharsis Served...

Awen trapped in her cubical for crazy hours..Bering the brunt of the work place point of contact stress.. Whilst we on the other hand don't get paid to read anything here..

Not the best rate of exchange...

[Wulfhramn]

Wow, a lot of comments on here make me quite sad about the community. :(

Congrats to the winners! Hopefully Cryptic allows more creative contests in the future.

Besides, most rules should be looked at more as Guidelines than strict regulations . . . after all, shouldn't we be happy that creativity won out over blind adherence to mindless arbitrary rules and restrictions?

/just my personal opinion.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

after all, shouldn't we be happy that creativity won out over blind adherence to mindless arbitrary rules and restrictions?

Thats the thing; it didnt. The people who actually followed the rules had to "stifle" their creativity to make their entries conform to the 300 word rule. Someone else's story could have actually be much more creative than the person who won if they were allowed to use the same amount of words as the winner.

[Starshelle]

I just wanted to add that while I haven't yet participated in these contests, I enjoyed reading the winning entries, and I don't really care for the "lottery" idea for future contests. The creative contests are much more fun. This oversight when it came to the word count is unfortunate, and I think people have the right to complain about it. However, why not just learn from this mistake for future contests and make sure the winner has a correct word count first? In fact, before even reading the entries, just paste them into word and do quick word count, and don't even read that ones that go over it.

That would be my suggestion. Awen, you're only human (or Vulcan, or something ;)) so I can understand how a mistake like that could be made, but just an apology and promise not to let it happen again should be sufficient. I'd also like to see one of the runner ups who did keep the 300 word count get awarded first prize in addition to the one who was already chosen, but I do not know if it would be possible to do that or not.

[Rimshot]

In the future - all contests will be random lotteries so that this sort of thing does not happen again. I appreciate all of the hard work and creativity that you have put into the contests thus far and I hope that we may again some day be able to have activities that allow you all to be creative.

I've caught up on all this and I agree with most people - what happened wasn't right and you should have handled it much better.

I do appreciate the apologies, but they came in a little too late. The fact that you came up with the whole 'we changed the rules because we felt like it' story at first doesn't make things better. But let's not make too big a deal out of it; apology accepted.

However, I do not like at all the fact that the contests will now be made into far less motivating and therefore far less interesting lotteries because of a mistake made initially by you, and as a result, by the rest of the team. It's all right to make mistakes, as long as you acknowledge them, otherwise you gain nothing by them. But taking part of the fun out of something for other people as a direct result of your mistake, that's just wrong.

I hope you'll reconsider this decision. The next contest should be just like this one again. You've made this mistake now, so you certainly won't forget about the word count rule next time, trust me. Just don't change any rules after the contest has started and correct any mistakes you might make in the process. The community is capable of understanding, you see.

So please, no lottery. There's absolutely no reason to, for lack of a better word, punish us for something you did, whether it was intentional or not.

One last note: no matter what, this has damaged the relationship between the community and Cryptic. While reading all about this, I was having some serious doubts about remaining a community member and about eventually playing STO. I just don't know whether I can fully trust Cryptic, which is what I want. I'm sure a lot of people feel like that, and it's very important. We're going to have to depend on you guys if we want to have fun playing the game, and we need to know and feel that we can. Perhaps we feel like this for all the wrong reasons, but it's a fact that we do feel like this. Please use this feedback to better yourself.

[Wulfhramn]

Thats the thing; it didnt. The people who actually followed the rules had to "stifle" their creativity to make their entries conform to the 300 word rule. Someone else's story could have actually be much more creative than the person who won if they were allowed to use the same amount of words as the winner.

I guess it all depends on the individual. Personally I say kudos to the winner for not compromising their creative integrity, and submitting it in a manner that made them happy. The fact that they won, regardless of silly rules, makes it all the more awesome.

I can understand why people are upset, some people regard these things as sacrosanct. I guess that if I were cryptic I would have picked the most creative entry (as subjective a process as it is) and if it violated the rules, oh well. Then I would have made sure to choose a second winner that followed the rules to a T, just to prevent any disgruntlement. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I guess it all depends on the individual. Personally I say kudos to the winner for not compromising their creative integrity, and submitting it in a manner that made them happy. The fact that they won, regardless of silly rules, makes it all the more awesome.

I can understand why people are upset, some people regard these things as sacrosanct. I guess that if I were cryptic I would have picked the most creative entry (as subjective a process as it is) and if it violated the rules, oh well. Then I would have made sure to choose a second winner that followed the rules to a T, just to prevent any disgruntlement. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

Just so we're clear, your saying you think its ok to cheat as long as you can justify it? Because thats what breaking the rules is; cheating. Calling the rules "silly" and talking about not comromising your "creative integrity" doesnt change the definition of cheating.

[SteveTheMeek]

I guess it all depends on the individual. Personally I say kudos to the winner for not compromising their creative integrity, and submitting it in a manner that made them happy. The fact that they won, regardless of silly rules, makes it all the more awesome.

I can understand why people are upset, some people regard these things as sacrosanct. I guess that if I were cryptic I would have picked the most creative entry (as subjective a process as it is) and if it violated the rules, oh well. Then I would have made sure to choose a second winner that followed the rules to a T, just to prevent any disgruntlement. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.


That is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most ridiculous post I've read on here. Simply astonishing.

What is worse I think you really meant it.

Good lord.

[BreachAndClear]

Author of this drivel needs good talking to from parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Online#Contest_Controversies

Encourage all to delete it.

I tried! It gets posted back in less than a minute.

[SteveTheMeek]

I tried! It gets posted back in less than a minute.

fekkin LOL!

And so it should.

[Zuriel]

RULES?


.. will there be rules in the game we can bend or break?

I highly doubt it.


Congrats to the winner of the contest.. well done story. Poor decision on the "team" for not listing in the rules..

...."But, if you go above and beyond the guide lines of these rules, we'll over look it (cause we can)"

... this is atrocious, and disrespects those of us who follow the rules!

[Lennon]

That is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most ridiculous post I've read on here. Simply astonishing.

What is worse I think you really meant it.

Good lord.
How about this one.

Star Wars the Phantom Meance was the best movie ever.

[SteveTheMeek]

How about this one.

Star Wars the Phantom Meance was the best movie ever.

hehe

nah, not even close. The Highlander.
;P

[SteveTheMeek]

... this is atrocious, and disrespects those of us who follow the rules!


to say the least, mate.

[Wulfhramn]

Just so we're clear, your saying you think its ok to cheat as long as you can justify it? Because thats what breaking the rules is; cheating. Calling the rules "silly" and talking about not comromising your "creative integrity" doesnt change the definition of cheating.

I understand your perspective, I respect it, but I also respectfully disagree with it. I don't care to enter into a pointless internet argument. http://xkcd.com/386/ I also don't agree with the strawman you present as my opinion - we could endlessly debate semantics all we wanted until we were blue in the face, and we'd still be exactly where we were before.

At any rate, I bid you goodnight Sir *tips hat.*

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I understand your perspective, I respect it, but I also respectfully disagree with it. I don't care to enter into a pointless internet argument. http://xkcd.com/386/ I also don't agree with the strawman you present as my opinion - we could endlessly debate semantics all we wanted until we were blue in the face, and we'd still be exactly where we were before.

At any rate, I bid you goodnight Sir *tips hat.*

Actually, your wrong. There is no debate on symantics here. Breaking the rules IS cheating. That is the very MEANING of the word. If you think its ok to cheat, well, that is your own character flaw. But your personal morals or lack thereof do not change the definition of cheating. The question is not what cheating is, but whether or not you believe it is alright to do so if you dont feel like following the rules.

[Trekkie]

Honestly, I think that this entire situation has gotten a little out of hand. I wasn't upset in the slightest that the winning entry exceeded the word limit, mostly because I also thought it was a good submission. The attitude that some people on this forum have taken actually kind of disappoints me, even moreso if it means that there will not be any more creative contests in the future considering I have had a great time coming up with submissions for them. I really hope that in time the community can kind of just look past this whole incident, both because I think the members on this forum are kind of above it and also because I wold really like to see some future contests that rely on the great creativity of the forum instead of some sort of random draw.

[Marritza_Nador]

Actually Awen,

It wasn't necessary...the Beta may be fun, but hopefully most of the players know it is still a game. Hopefully, noone goes out and does anything severe just because they lost...that would be stupid.. Anyway, If the story was good enough, than that is what it was and it aided the staff develop a new species.

I'm still trying to bribe you and the Cryptic staff into giving me a Beta for a few gallons of homemade Ice Cream. :D

[SteveTheMeek]

Honestly, I think that this entire situation has gotten a little out of hand. I wasn't upset in the slightest that the winning entry exceeded the word limit, mostly because I also thought it was a good submission. The attitude that some people on this forum have taken actually kind of disappoints me, even moreso if it means that there will not be any more creative contests in the future considering I have had a great time coming up with submissions for them. I really hope that in time the community can kind of just look past this whole incident, both because I think the members on this forum are kind of above it and also because I wold really like to see some future contests that rely on the great creativity of the forum instead of some sort of random draw.

You see what they did? They, the team, the devs? You should be disappointed with THEM, not us. It was THEIR awful mistake and THEIR decision to implement the lottery contest from now on.

FFS we have every right to be mad at them and blame them. Really what we should have done, right after flaming, childish comments by Awen was stick together and give them hell. Maybe that would teach them to respect us and maybe, just maybe they would learn from their mistakes.

STOP patting them on the back for their pathetic handling of the situation. It will probably result in more disrespect for us on their part. And that could affect the game you are longing for.

[masoniclight]

All this flap was over the breaking of the rules.. nothing more, nothing less Awen. I feel bad it has come to this but we all just wanted to be judged on a fair playing field is all.. aside from the bad grammar, which I really didn't care about, it was a good story... lets not blow this out of proportion here. Congratulations to the winner.. I don't want to sound like a sore loser.. goodness.. I don't think anyone here wanted their concerns to be looked at as such.. we just wanted the rules followed is all..

*sigh*

I hate to see this kind of fragmenting of a really good community... the only thing to do is move forward.

Congratulations again to the winner and the runner up and any and all honorable mentions...

I also want to give special kudeos to everyone who entered this contest and tried to make a good story as well.. you all deserve recognition here...

Masoniccaptian (saddened by recent events)

[Marritza_Nador]

Steve..... Its a game. Beta's aren't getting money...aren't getting their names in the credits, aren't getting a giant ship when the game comes out.nothing but maybe some childish admiration as some really cool guy (or gal) who took part in it.

So give it a rest.

[Loekii]

Honestly, I think that this entire situation has gotten a little out of hand. I wasn't upset in the slightest that the winning entry exceeded the word limit, mostly because I also thought it was a good submission. The attitude that some people on this forum have taken actually kind of disappoints me, even moreso if it means that there will not be any more creative contests in the future considering I have had a great time coming up with submissions for them. I really hope that in time the community can kind of just look past this whole incident, both because I think the members on this forum are kind of above it and also because I wold really like to see some future contests that rely on the great creativity of the forum instead of some sort of random draw.

Well said and I agree.

The creativity contest was not removed because of the mistake.

It was removed because all the childish complaining - more to the point, the overreactive ones. Being dismayed is acceptable. Calling for someone to lose their job over it, is just stupid. Its like the guy that jumps up and down yelling that the little boy cheated during one of the picnic games.

This mistake is so small and insignificant. The sun still will rise. Food is still on the table. And I share Awens dismay at some posters overreaction to the mistake. If this were an employee picnic, I would certainly count such over reactions as marks against them in reviews and consideration for positions.

[SteveTheMeek]

Steve..... Its a game. Beta's aren't getting money...aren't getting their names in the credits, aren't getting a giant ship when the game comes out.nothing but maybe some childish admiration as some really cool guy (or gal) who took part in it.

So give it a rest.

mate, i don't care about the beta, never did. I did not partake in the contest.
However I will not stand by and watch the honest, trustful folks, who worked hard, abiding by the firm set rules, being taken for granted and/or taken for a ride.

it's just me.

[Marritza_Nador]

mate, i don't care about the beta, never did. I did not partake in the contest.
However I will not stand by and watch the honest, trustful folks, who worked hard, abiding by the firm set rules, being taken for granted and/or taken for a ride.

it's just me.

After being in the military for over 20 years, i've learned...there are no firm set rules. Those who make the rules...break them when it benefits the overall goal. It happens and people should drop it from here. I also defend the underdogs, but there are times when I have to stop fighting a lost battle and look on to the next one...

[SteveTheMeek]

I see your point and respect your views.
I've never been in a military and I hope i will never be.
but I did participate in many writing contests and the one thing they have to have in order not to completely bomb, to use more informal word, is a set of firm rules.


After being in the military for over 20 years, i've learned...there are no firm set rules. Those who make the rules...break them when it benefits the overall goal. It happens and people should drop it from here. I also defend the underdogs, but there are times when I have to stop fighting a lost battle and look on to the next one...

[djnattyd]

mate, i don't care about the beta, never did. I did not partake in the contest.
However I will not stand by and watch the honest, trustful folks, who worked hard, abiding by the firm set rules, being taken for granted and/or taken for a ride.

it's just me.

Why don't you let the people that actually entered the contest, and now feel that they screwed, speak for themselves? You've already said that you will not be purchasing STO so quit your whining and move on...

Or are you expecting that your excessive moaning will cause Craig Zinkevich and Jack Emmert to show up at your door, personally beg for your forgiveness and give you a Beta slot?

[SteveTheMeek]

Why don't you let the people that actually entered the contest, and now feel that they screwed, speak for themselves? You've already said that you will not be purchasing STO so quit your whining and move on...

Or are you expecting that your excessive moaning will cause Craig Zinkevich and Jack Emmert to show up at your door, personally beg for your forgiveness and give you a Beta slot?

My, such venom.
You hurt me.

I expect nothing. I don't know the guys you mention, are they MMO celebrities?

I am not blocking the disappointed participants from posting, now, am I?

So I guess the only point of your post was to tell me to shut up?
Well then, if you'd asked nicely I would have considered it.
Come on, you can do better.

[Loekii]

Why don't you let the people that actually entered the contest, and now feel that they screwed, speak for themselves? You've already said that you will not be purchasing STO so quit your whining and move on...

Or are you expecting that your excessive moaning will cause Craig Zinkevich and Jack Emmert to show up at your door, personally beg for your forgiveness and give you a Beta slot?

I agree. I find it very questionable that someone that has no interest in the game would be so 'in sensed' and spurred to action.

More likely the mistake provided a good opportunity to mud-sling at Cryptic.

Do what some of us have done, just add him to your ignore list.

[SteveTheMeek]

I agree. I find it very questionable that someone that has no interest in the game would be so 'in sensed' and spurred to action.

More likely the mistake provided a good opportunity to mud-sling at Cryptic.

Do what some of us have done, just add him to your ignore list.

I lost the interest in the game today, because of the unprofessional and unbecoming actions of the devs.
Simple as that.

[RogueEnterprise]

Not sure if anyone would read this after 15 pages of posting or whatever, but here's what I think:

Awen... it sucks that this happened, but don't overreact. Having random lottery contests is an overreaction and you should know it. Your apology is accepted... just please move on with the planned community events.

Just... for chrissakes, be more careful, would you? You're an experienced community manager. It's not fun when something like this happens.

[Wyx]

First, I would like to thank Arwen for the apology and I do know that mistakes can be made. To the winner of the contest, you should keep your reward as you were judged the winner, no matter who made the mistake that should not be changed.

Like many have suggested, I think there is a case for 'Honorable Mentions' for creative entries and for up-front clear communication.

As for removing all contests because there was feedback on interpreting the rules, when there was a legitimate mistake made, is punishing the community for an error they did not make.

Finally, I did enter the contest and stuck to the rules. As I like bad analogies, I will use a competition to draw a sketch with a graphite pencil, only to have a color picture win because it is more vivid. Rewarding the wrong behavior sends the wrong signals. So far, breaking the rules is OK, but mentioning it gets the competitions removed.

Please reconsider!

[Bezurn]

Finally, I did enter the contest and stuck to the rules. As I like bad analogies, I will use a competition to draw a sketch in pencil, only to have a color picture win because it is more vivid. Rewarding the wrong behavior sends the wrong signals. So far, breaking the rules is OK, but mentioning it gets the competitions removed.

Please reconsider!

Maybe the winner used color pencils. I'll edit your analogy and submit it for revision.

You enter a contest to create an artistic scetch of an animal. You read the rules and it states that it must be on 8x11 paper. You set out and create a wonderful picture of a swan on a lake.

The winner is chosen, and it is an origami of a swan, and clearly uses much larger paper than 8x11 in size. Clearly the origami swan is more impressive than your entry.

The judges say they were so moved by the swan that they lost all objectivity of the contest and declared it the victor. You look at your pretty picture of a swan and wonder what could have been.

[djnattyd]

Have any of you that are moaning actually stopped for a second and thought "Hmm, what if all the other entries that were 300 words or lower, were actually crap?"

Yes the winner went over the count but how would you have felt if Awen had turned around and said; "We had to go with one that was over 300 words because frankly, the rest were pure s**t. It actually hurt my eyes to read them and i thought they had been written by an infant. There was no creativity and a few sent me to sleep sooo... Yeah, here's the winner..."

I don't even think there was this much of an uproar during the US elections when all those Florida ballot boxes went missing.

[phifur]

Remember this is the only way to win :D and the old saying goes " Nice guy always finish last"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_wwm1GLmSo&feature=related
R.I.P Eddie

I know Awen made a mistake just had to put this in for fun :p
If your in a race but have a speed limit 50 mph + or - 10 mph but someone go 101mph and win the race. :D It cool because it was fun to watch and cheating is the best way to win!! muhahaha

[Bezurn]

Have any of you that are moaning actually stopped for a second and thought "Hmm, what if all the other entries that were 300 words or lower, were actually crap?"

Yes the winner went over the count but how would you have felt if Awen had turned around and said; "We had to go with one that was over 300 words because frankly, the rest were pure s**t. It actually hurt my eyes to read them and i thought they had been written by an infant. There was no creativity and a few sent me to sleep sooo... Yeah, here's the winner..."

I don't even think there was this much of an uproar during the US elections when all those Florida ballot boxes went missing.

People have every right to express how they feel on these forums. I am not trying to convince anyone, except for the people who govern this site of what I think. I'm happy for the winner and not moaning at all (thats my opinion I guess too :P)

As a friendly reminder I'd like you to read the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=24&a=2)

Here is the text directly in case you do not wish to go to the page and find it yourself

14. Respect is the name of the game. You must respect your fellow members and refrain from inflammatory comments as well as flaming, taunting, and general disrespect. Do not simply put down the opinion or advice given by others. If you don't agree with it, say why - respectfully. Don't just tell them they're wrong. Do not make uninvited remarks about typos, duplicate posts, posting styles, etc.

15. When an opinion-based discussion is being had, do not state things like "there is no argument" as if your opinion is the only one or the only one that matters. When someone has clearly stated their opinion, do not say things like "Are you serious?" and "Are you kidding me?" Remember, this is not a debate club. This is a friendly discussion community. Allow people to have their opinion. No one is to act as some sort of opinion judge, responding to each one to say whether they agree with it or not or whether or not it is a valid, well thought out opinion.

[Nagilum_Drone]

Hmmm.... I was debating on whether to comment on this or not. Like many of you I wrote, what I thought, was a pretty good story. It was about 520 words or so. So I started cutting it down to make the 300 limit. Each cut made the thing a less interesting, a little more bare bones and to the point. In the end I didn't think it was all that great as I had to remove so much of the little details. But I was satisfied in the fact that everyone else would have the same handicap. So it doesn't surprise me that Cryptic would have found a 600 word story to be the best they saw, of course it had to be, it had details a lot of us had to cut out.

Now this may sound harsh, but I don't believe the winner deserves to win. I would congratulation him/her if they had followed the rules and were able to shine in 300 words or less. Hell we get upset when our athletes use drugs to enhance their game play, so why is this any different? Why congratulate someone for not following the rules that were laid down? The rules everyone else played by.

To say Cryptic made a mistake this time, but it's ok they hopefully learned their lesson. To me sounds ridiculous. I recall when I was in university if my prof said the paper due was 7 pages, or 3000 words and someone handed in 9 pages or 4000 words, it was an automatic F. They didn't do the assignment as assigned and the profs and TAs had not time to waste on it. Of course maybe my university was a little harsh, I don't know. But last I checked, in the real world we follow the rules, and we don't reward those who break them. Sure thinking outside the box is needed to advance, but I don't think this qualifies for that.

To say Awen should be fired, is also pretty ridiculous. This is not something worth firing someone over. This has certainly left a sour taste in my mouth, but I will move on. I will play the game and I will enjoy it. Maybe lotteries is the better way to go really. The trivia requires you to be logged on to the forum 24/7, so it's pretty well impossible for most of us. And the creativity contests have rules that are made to be ignored by the fact they are not enforced.

So what's the solution to fix this? To make the community whole again? I'm not in a position to provide anything that will satisfy the disenchanted or mend the fences. I guess we just move on. Nothing else we can do.

Nagilum

[Powerhelm]

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

Wrong. We've had several contests like this and the winners were chosen from a pool of people who were within or very near the word limits. Saying you won't have any more creativity contests because people got mad that you chose a winner from outside the "legal pool" is punishing the entire community because you didn't notice the rules of the contest. I think we've proved numerous times that when the winners are chosen from within the pool of rules-adherent entries we're pretty nice and congratulatory. It's just in this case the winner was so blatantly outside the bounds of what everyone took to be a hard/semi-hard cap that it was very frustrating to people, the posts calling people unsportsmanlike didn't help those flames either to be honest.

I honestly think we just shouldn't have contests period. If you do a lottery and you get a statistical anomaly where you have 5 people from the same fleet win out of 25 winners then people will say you're leaning toward that fleet or that those people found a way to affect the lottery somehow. No matter what people will complain about a contest, but many many fewer people complain when the winners of a contest and those judging the contest strictly adhere to the pre-defined rules. Next time Awen, just read the rules for the contest before you pick the winner and there won't be a problem! :)

It's ok Awen you're still much better than some of the CR people I've seen in other MMO forums don't let this misstep get you down, though I'm still kinda surprised by the "unsportsmanlike" comment. That's something I'd have heard from your boss (J.E.) back in CoH beta days and not from a CR person nowadays, that was probably the most hurtful thing that was said in that thread that got closed. It could be said you broke a forum rule ya know ;)

Respect is the name of the game. You must respect your fellow members and refrain from inflammatory comments as well as flaming, taunting, and general disrespect.

While I'm not sure what side of the fence I'm on regarding TheHybrid deserving or not deserving the prize I do feel bad that he got caught up in the middle of this. But in all honesty betas suck, a lot. Most people hunger to get in Betas then they get angry that everything isn't working and just log in to log in so they can be around for the later more stable stuff and never help with the work early on. So people are better off not getting into beta by and large til open beta. I myself hate early betas and alphas but I also enjoy them in a weird way because I tend to find a lot more bugs and feel like I'm helping a lot more than when the game becomes more stable. :p

[Sullen]

Well I, for one, thought the entry was great! And it very much deserved the win, no matter the limit.

A lot of people are overreacting... I'm sorry. =(

[Azurian]

Everyone's anger was very much justified, Sullen. People were told 300 words and they entered with 300 words. But then comes along someone not abiding by the rules and gets chosen the winner.

Bascially, Cryptic gave a massive middle finger to the entire community.

Have any of you that are moaning actually stopped for a second and thought "Hmm, what if all the other entries that were 300 words or lower, were actually crap?"

Yes the winner went over the count but how would you have felt if Awen had turned around and said; "We had to go with one that was over 300 words because frankly, the rest were pure s**t. It actually hurt my eyes to read them and i thought they had been written by an infant. There was no creativity and a few sent me to sleep sooo... Yeah, here's the winner..."

I don't even think there was this much of an uproar during the US elections when all those Florida ballot boxes went missing.

Some people posted their entries for the community to judge in the Holodeck, including the Runner-Up. And none of them look horrible. In fact, I bet if they posted their uncut versions, they would've ended up better than Hybrids.

[CherryTerri]

Well I, for one, thought the entry was great! And it very much deserved the win, no matter the limit.

A lot of people are overreacting... I'm sorry. =(

Things like this make me sad.

Yes the story is great, but they didn't follow the rules stated.

300 words max.

I cannot understand why people are not seeing that.

There has been too many analogies thrown around for me to do one more. Suffice it to say, others who did not win (and not ALL of us are angry) feel cheated for following the rules.

The argument is, one can see it is a long story. It takes but a few moments to go on line and search for Word Counter, a program where you can cut and paste into it to see the amount of words.

Yes, I agree with Awen that is was a good story. And I am happy to the winner. Good for him/her.

Will this stop me from buying the game/other products/entering more contests? No.

[Captain_Intrepid]

Guys, when I say lottery, I mean that we randomly choose registered users to receive the prizes. There won't be entries.

The simple truth is that not everyone is going to win these and it's probably better to make it across the board fair for everyone rather than anyone getting their feelings hurt right?

Would be nice if there was a way of coming up with a form that limits the number of words in the contests. That way if a person went over, they'd be able to reword their entry to fit.

Lotteries are fine, but please don't eliminate contests of skill/talent.

[masoniclight]

I second Captain Intrepid's motion!

[Azurian]

Like I said earlier, Lotteries are bad.

Awen could easily keep the contests, and they all narrow down their selection to the top 5 or the top 10, then have the community vote for the winner.

[Loekii]

Things like this make me sad.

Yes the story is great, but they didn't follow the rules stated.

300 words max.

I cannot understand why people are not seeing that.

There has been too many analogies thrown around for me to do one more. Suffice it to say, others who did not win (and not ALL of us are angry) feel cheated for following the rules.

The argument is, one can see it is a long story. It takes but a few moments to go on line and search for Word Counter, a program where you can cut and paste into it to see the amount of words.

Yes, I agree with Awen that is was a good story. And I am happy to the winner. Good for him/her.

Will this stop me from buying the game/other products/entering more contests? No.

CherryT,

It is not that people are denying that it was over the word count, and for the most part, people are not saying people should not be miffed.

The problem is that some people are going beyond miffed and calling for people to be fired.

This was a 'fun' contest for a trivial prize, but some are acting like they lost out on getting themselves designed into the game, or a fee lifetime subscription.

People are taking the 'prize' far too seriously. Imo, I think the mistake may have benefited Cryptic -- the behavior of some over this is not want I would consider a good personality for Beta Testing and NDA information, imo.

[Sullen]

Maybe a few of you guys spent a lot more time on your entry than I did, and that's why you feel cheated? I don't think it's really a matter of ethics or anything.

In my world, you're never going to get anywhere if you don't break a few rules. I don't want to incite any argument, so I'm gonna stop.

Sorry you guys feel bad. =(

[Loekii]

Would be nice if there was a way of coming up with a form that limits the number of words in the contests. That way if a person went over, they'd be able to reword their entry to fit.

Lotteries are fine, but please don't eliminate contests of skill/talent.

While that is a good idea, I would say that the over-reaction here demonstrates it is not worth it. Lotteries are basically just as effective, and far far less headache.

It is like you go and get doughnuts for the office everyday, and one day you forget to get the ones you promised, and get screamed at by a few people for it. Really kills the incentive to go on your own time to get doughnuts again for everyone. Easier to just stop doing it and eliminate the screaming.

[Dext]

With them trying to say there just going to do Lotteries for now on is nothing more then them turning there mistake on the community. An in doing so there turning it on its self.

[minago]

Beta slots shouldn't be given out as prizes anyway .

Edit

i just found out what happened about the winner, got picked and was over like 300 words from the rules...um yeah that sucks.

i guess the rules are just made up as they go along ? O.o

[Shuichii]

Ok, first off people are saying that they are satisfied that Awen reported herself to her superiors then apologized. Um news flash, we have no way of verifying that she did report herself. It’s only her word and frankly I really just don’t trust her anymore. Seriously, someone who JUST lied to you and broke the rules; you’re going to trust now? The naivety of it.

About that “apology”. Let me see, first she picked an entry over 300 words. Could it have been any more of a blatant lie then “I didn’t notice.” Who among you seriously can’t tell the difference between a 300 word and 600 word submission? If she really can’t tell the difference she should be wearing a safety helmet at all times much less working on a MMO. On top of that she says she can change the rules, retro-actively, after the contest has ended, to suit her needs.

Now after this was pointed out she said we were being poor sportsman. This is the keystone to most of the anger from the community. A flagrant insult to everyone who has um ever played any game and followed the little something called rules. If you don’t have to follow them then what’s the point? More to the point, this, the most bitter of things to call your fans; HAS NOT YET BEEN ADDRESED MUCH LESS APPOLOGISED FOR. People are saying that we are taking the prize or contest to seriously but this was a spiteful thing to say and is driving the real anger, not the stupid prize.

To further insult the community she has decided to lock any thread where anyone is expressing anger against her. I think I counted three but there maybe more. Rather than take the heat for the **** poor job she’s doing she shuts it down as if that will stop people’s anger. On top of that she ends her “apology” with a punishment for speaking against her. She states that she’s stopping the contests. Wow, what a great apology. Actions speak louder than words and by that measure she is screaming “Screw you, I am God and infallible!!!”

Awen, I have enjoyed your path to 2409. I think it’s time you focus your work on that and leave the forums. You clearly despise the community and have no managerial skills to deal with anyone who isn’t kissing your butt. I’m not saying resign, I’m saying reassign. We are the players and people that love Star Trek. The way you are treating us is nothing short of spitting on us from a balcony. We don’t just need, we deserve someone who will treat us with the slightest bit of dignity and integrity. You may be a good content designer but you’re a revolting forum manager. The only joy of a lottery would be less visible incompetence from you.

(counting the mins till this thread get’s locked too for speaking against the Awen.)

[AdmiralWynn]

Hah! Say it Shui!

I suppose I'd settle for Awen's reassignment. But the damage done here is extensive and looks to be long-lasting. Like you, I just don't trust Awen, and didn't even before this contest.

The point really comes back to the timeline yesterday morning. Awen freaked in public, trying to defend her ludicrous over-600-word contest award. Then the capper, the "I didn't know it was that long" statement. As you note, however that gets taken, it ain't pretty.

And surely, it is not at all professional for someone in her role to lash out like that. Game Over - at least, by rights, it should be.

[MagnusTyrel]

wow this post is still running? let it go people i think alot of people have over reacted it was only a beta slot, sure it shouldnt have won but it did, let it go and enjoy the forum...

[Sorayn]

As stated in numerous posts before: It is not about the the Beta key or even the the Hybrid.

What is/was being talked and discussed was the way that Awen and the team clearly chose to ignore rules or rather change them as seen fit. Then they turned around around and blamed us for being bad sports although they were the cause of the entire mess. That is what I and many others criticised.

[Dext]

As stated in numerous posts before: It is not about the the Beta key or even the the Hybrid.

What is/was being talked and discussed was the way that Awen and the team clearly chose to ignore rules or rather change them as seen fit. Then they turned around around and blamed us for being bad sports although they were the cause of the entire mess. That is what I and many others criticised.

100% right on this one

[djnattyd]

I wonder how many of you realise that posting comments claiming that Cryptic and/or it's employees are corrupt, inept and liars actually constitute as being both libelous and defamatory, and that Cryptic and/or the employees would be well within their rights to bring a legal case against said posters?

Think about that for a second before you post.

[Sorayn]

Are you serious?

We are voicing an opionion based upon the facts as they were presented themselbves to us over the course of the last 24h. We are not accusing, nor claiming that, anyone is being this or that. But we are saying that, "looking at the entire situation and the way it was handled, we believe.....". That is simply making use of a fundamental freedom, the freedom of speech. I seriously doubt that there are any grounds for a legal case given here. I someone messes something up, I think I have the right to be mad abot it and assess(spelling?) the situation in a certain manner.

We are not seeking any legal action on our side in any way. But the right to voice an opinion is nothing that I would have think about or justify, especially not in a case like this were I am not aware of any fault.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I wonder how many of you realise that posting comments claiming that Cryptic and/or it's employees are corrupt, inept and liars actually constitute as being both libelous and defamatory, and that Cryptic and/or the employees would be well within their rights to bring a legal case against said posters?

Think about that for a second before you post.

Actually, if Cryptic DID try to bring legal action against someone for saying bad things about them, this contest would most certainly be brought up. And there is no debate that Cryptic DID break their own rules, and then blame the community for being upset that the rules were broken. If these things had not occured, and someone was badmouthing them for no reason, they might have a case. However, because of the things they actually did, any complaints against them are considered provoked grievances. Whether it was "right" or "wrong" for Cryptic to do what they did is another issue entirely.

[fablis310]

Thank you Awen, I completely understand. I really enjoyed the winning entry and I apologize for all of this getting out of hand. It's sad that the contests are all random, though that may help my chances overall. I hope that you will still do something with screenshots etcetera that will allow us to flex our creativity a bit. Even though I didn't win I really enjoyed working on my little story a great deal. Thank you mostly for taking the time to respond to the critiques.

[Korrific]

I hope you'll reconsider this decision. The next contest should be just like this one again.
I hope she doesn't reconsider :p

What I'm about to say is not targeted at anyone in particular. It's based on a decade's worth of internet observation, and a couple (ok, maybe more :eek:) decades of interacting with people in real life. Of course, saying that by itself pretty much guarantees I'll get flamed, but whatevah ;)

Awen, my word of advice to you, if you want to run another creativity contest: Do not offer a prize. Do not select a winner. Do not even select a set of candidates for the community to vote on. Do not, in any way, shape, or form, treat any one specific entry or a limited set of entries in any way that can be construed as official recognition.

I have not yet seen an internet creativity contest that ends well once a winner is picked. Somebody somewhere in the community will find some issue with the winning entry that will resonate with a vocal subset of the community. In this case, it was about word length - but if that weren't an issue, it'd be about grammar, or spelling, or post count, or similarity to some piece of previously published fiction. It wouldn't be the same set of people griping about every issue, but there will always be a set of people who will find a more-or-less legitimate reason to be upset about "how the contest was handled."

If you want to pick a winner, go with the lottery idea. If you want to get people to engage in creativity, stick with the Kobayashi Maru format.

[Sorayn]

You, as many others, are missing the point. There was no problem with the winner or is entry itself. No one whinned about the fact that they didn't win. I for one couldn't care less about any contest as I don't partake in them anyway.

However if a company blatently violates it's own rules and then blames the community for reacting a "bit sour" about it, then I find than highly disrespectful. That is essencially what the entire discussion is about.

[djnattyd]

Your all starting to sound like a stuck record. You've made your point, we all heard you, now give it a rest

[Coldsteel6d]

I hope she doesn't reconsider :p

What I'm about to say is not targeted at anyone in particular. It's based on a decade's worth of internet observation, and a couple (ok, maybe more :eek:) decades of interacting with people in real life. Of course, saying that by itself pretty much guarantees I'll get flamed, but whatevah ;)

Awen, my word of advice to you, if you want to run another creativity contest: Do not offer a prize. Do not select a winner. Do not even select a set of candidates for the community to vote on. Do not, in any way, shape, or form, treat any one specific entry or a limited set of entries in any way that can be construed as official recognition.

I have not yet seen an internet creativity contest that ends well once a winner is picked. Somebody somewhere in the community will find some issue with the winning entry that will resonate with a vocal subset of the community. In this case, it was about word length - but if that weren't an issue, it'd be about grammar, or spelling, or post count, or similarity to some piece of previously published fiction. It wouldn't be the same set of people griping about every issue, but there will always be a set of people who will find a more-or-less legitimate reason to be upset about "how the contest was handled."

If you want to pick a winner, go with the lottery idea. If you want to get people to engage in creativity, stick with the Kobayashi Maru format.

That's right it didn't work out well so lets just give up. No prizes, and no competition, lets make everyone a winner just like those PC lets not offend anyone parents that want to have sports leagues with their 8 year olds where no team wins, no one keeps score, and we are all winners!.

I got runner up so not only am I irritated by the broken rules but also I actually could taste victory! The fix is easy for the next contest. Change the rules or follow them to the letter. No limit on the contest entry length or 300 words and not a single one more.

This is the coolest way to earn a beta slot that I have ever seen and it needs to go on. Canceling this contest or changing it to "easy mode" or the contest equivalent of WoW would only appease the people that are already OK with what happened.

What I am really looking at is to see how they handle this thing. Are they going to stick to their guns or will they bow to community pressure. this might give us some insight into how they will be on the customer service side and support side one the game is out. Personally I am looking for a medium here.

Bottom line is you don't quit when something doesn't work right. If you dd then these games would not make it through the first week. How would you feel in the programmers came across their first bug and said "Dammit, oh well better just take that feature out, it isn't working right"

[Sorayn]

I think we can decide when we've had enough. If we choose to disuss this further then let us do so. If you don't like it, than just ignore the thread. BEsides, apart from a few stray posts there is no harm being done. Why should it concern you?

This after all a forum where discussions are meant to be held, sometimes even over several pages.

p.s. We wouldn't "have" continue to stress our point if people wouldn't always coem in here and accuse us of being sore sports etc.

[phifur]

I got runner up so not only am I irritated by the broken rules but also I actually could taste victory! The fix is easy for the next contest. Change the rules or follow them to the letter. No limit on the contest entry length or 300 words and not a single one more.

Ah sorry guy. You should be the winner. Tell you what. I'll man up and give you my beta key if I win a future lottery. I just don't like people getting screwed.

[Coldsteel6d]

Ah sorry guy. You should be the winner. Tell you what. I'll man up and give you my beta key if I win a future lottery. I just don't like people getting screwed.

It's not about the key really its about the competition for me. For instance i like to play Blackjack when i go top a casino. I love to start out with about $100 and build it up to around $500-$1,000 and then bet it all on one hand. People call me stupid and crazy but for me it's not about winning the money, the money makes it a thrill and exiting. The goal is just to win and to be recognized.

I don't give a crap about the beta key. At some point I will get a key for whatever reason. I always seem to. I just want to compete and win, that is the whole point for me. Love to win.

I can't win this contest. It is over and done. I am cool with that. If they contact me tomorrow and say they want to declare me co winner or some ting and give me a key that would be nice but that's not what it is about. Even if I got the key I would enter again just to see if I could win. That's why i want them to continue this contest format. I want to win it.

There are a lot of people that don't care if they win. It's just fun. Those guys got what they were after the moment they submitted their entry. I am glad for them. The rest of us should be given more chances. I just don't want to see this go away. If they go to a lotto system there is no thrill for me. It's not exiting so I won't do it. They don't necessarily need a beta key prize, but they need something, like adding some of the content of the winners submission to the game, but they do need a winner otherwise for me it's pointless. If i just wanted to write little stories about aliens and planets I can do that without a format being given to me by Cryptic.

If you get a beta key keep it. Being in a closed beta and having some say in correcting a games bugs and flaws is second only to having a say in a games content in my view. Enjoy it if you get the chance.

[masoniclight]

As always Coldsteel.. Well Said! I think that sums this whole issue up nicely. Congrats again on at least be acknowledged for your writing skills because your story was great, as well as being under the 300 word limit. Great stuff Coldsteel... great stuff!! :)

[Razorburn]

Actually - I completely forgot that there was a word limit because I felt that the entry was that good.

I understand choosing an entry over the limit, bottom line, it's Cryptic's contest they can bend the rules for an entry that will make the game more interesting.

However, I don't like the whole "I'm human and I make mistakes" line. That could be said about anything... it's generic jive talk. I'd rather the DEV team just say that they chose it because it will enhance the game for everyone and that in the future if they have to make that choice again they gladly will. Making it sound like "I made a mistake, but don't worry, it's because I'm human" is irrational and unnecessary.

[Krysphill]

Well, here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. If the 300 word one was better, then it was better. It didn't follow the rules, but everyone makes mistakes, so no hard feelings. Doesn't change my mind about you, the site, or anything else. I still look forward to the game and still respect you as community leader.

Just as a suggestion for the future, if one is exeptional that doesn't win or meet the citeria, maybe give out a different award for that. If the judge/judges feel strongly about one that didn't make the top spots, maybe give them a lesser special title.

Still, in regards to the winning entry, congrats, and no respect lost for the community leader and leaders.

[Hagon]

Really some of you .... :rolleyes:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4439/molehill.jpg

[Cualtemuac]

Too little too late. You fail at your job, in my view.
Come on. That is not necissary. His job is not to appease us with a draconian following of the rules.

[Silverspar]

It's done and over with. The fact some individuals have taken this exceptionally too far. They've gone well past tolerable levels of acceptance in this mistake, and gone into the field of hate mongering and harassment. That's right, the people still trying to incite rage over this are no longer trying to act peacefully over this, they have gone past that. They have entered the realm of hate and harassment, and have turned any chance of a peaceful resolution to this and maybe getting the contests back into a pipe dream now. It is very shameful indeed, a mistake was made but these individuals want to drag this through the mud and have cost the entire community any future contest possibilities. They think they are crusaders, when they can't even see they are apart of the problem.

[minago]

I wonder how many of you realise that posting comments claiming that Cryptic and/or it's employees are corrupt, inept and liars actually constitute as being both libelous and defamatory, and that Cryptic and/or the employees would be well within their rights to bring a legal case against said posters?

Think about that for a second before you post.

Cryptic did a good enough job doing that over the weekend involving champions .

:rolleyes:

http://www.massively.com/2009/03/19/cryptic-used-ncsoft-forums-for-beta-recruiting-not-really-sorry/

[minago]

It's done and over with. .

i didn't even know this happened till late last night ,others may want too know before it gets swept under the rug.

[Jonathan]

It's done and over with. The fact some individuals have taken this exceptionally too far. They've gone well past tolerable levels of acceptance in this mistake, and gone into the field of hate mongering and harassment. That's right, the people still trying to incite rage over this are no longer trying to act peacefully over this, they have gone past that. They have entered the realm of hate and harassment, and have turned any chance of a peaceful resolution to this and maybe getting the contests back into a pipe dream now. It is very shameful indeed, a mistake was made but these individuals want to drag this through the mud and have cost the entire community any future contest possibilities. They think they are crusaders, when they can't even see they are apart of the problem.

While I agree that people have pushed this too far, I disagree with the statement that this prevents a reasonable response to future competitions from Cryptic. I call on... pretty much everyone... to leave this issue alone until we hear from Cryptic - I suggest that no more needs to be said - everything has been stated in good ways and bad ways and that until Cryptic comments again we let everything settle. Everyone should reflect on the fact that no solution will make everyone happy but whatever the outcome there will be a point when it will be done and over and we should leave it in the past.

[Silverspar]

i didn't even know this happened till late last night ,others may want too know before it gets swept under the rug.

Putting something behind you isn't sweeping it under the rug. Maybe you haven't realized it, but your self righteous crusading has already destroyed any chance of peacefully resolving this and getting the contests back. You haven't helped anyone and keep hurting the community more. Now this is bordering on harassment and could result in these forums being taken away completely because of a few individuals. If that's what you want, then by all means, keep it up.

[TreffnonX]

Cryptic did a good enough job doing that over the weekend involving champions .

:rolleyes:

http://www.massively.com/2009/03/19/cryptic-used-ncsoft-forums-for-beta-recruiting-not-really-sorry/

who cares pretty much hits it on the head.
I read the post from Massively and i have to say i agree with Mr Sulic in matters of LAN mode.
LAN mode means people are gonna use tools like hamachi and other stuff to emulate a LAN network over the internet and to use cracks and other stuff to play them illegally, I know it, i have seen it a thousand times, it is close to custom here in germany....
So I can uderstand anyone who says, our game is only open for multiplayer over the internet and anyone who wants a LAN only mode obviously wants to abuse it, because that is the only reason anyone would want a lan mode in ecplicit. Even largescale LAN parties have internet and you can log on to validate keys and stuff, and if players want a better ping, then hosting a game on the internet does not exclude joining via internet but still having the direct connection.

About the recruitment of betatestetrs on CoH/V forum/PMs, I don'T care a bit, because in my opinion a game should be able to withstand the comparison to another game and that is what this ultimately is about. Maybe is was not legitimate to do so, but i think if CoH/V is such a low game that players who played it for months/years will simply drop it and go to CO then they really deserve it.

And ultimately. what does it have to do with STO? nothing.
They are making a good game and i give nothing on it if they mess up somewere else...

Besides I like people who make a little mistake from time to time, after all who likes somebody who slaps you in the face with his perfection....

[Razorburn]

Besides I like people who make a little mistake from time to time, after all who likes somebody who slaps you in the face with his perfection....

Ha! That's funny. Perfection isn't a slap in the face, unless it's offensive, which it clearly isn't. Accepting little mistakes and liking them are two different things, I hope you mean the former.

[TreffnonX]

=} i don't like it if people go around and say hey i make mistakes on purpose or sometihng like that, but if it is not on purpose and something forgivable then i do like it yes. What i don't like is people who try to be perfect all the time without living or having fun because of that.

[AdmiralWynn]

Putting something behind you isn't sweeping it under the rug. Maybe you haven't realized it, but your self righteous crusading has already destroyed any chance of peacefully resolving this and getting the contests back. You haven't helped anyone and keep hurting the community more. Now this is bordering on harassment and could result in these forums being taken away completely because of a few individuals. If that's what you want, then by all means, keep it up.

This is called "blaming the victim", I believe...

[minago]

who cares pretty much hits it on the head.
I read the post from Massively and i have to say i agree with Mr Sulic in matters of LAN mode.
.

um since the servers shut down ,lan mode would be helpful about now

[TreffnonX]

This is called "blaming the victim", I believe...

the point is that we all understood by now what is going on and that we want to pick up useful discussions again. Also we want future contests to have beta-keys as prizes because it would be a shame if they were to be randomly given out.
Even i think that is a bad idea and i have a save betakey ...
It just isnt fair to the people who participated and didn'T complain about the winning entry.

Still i think that many mistakes were made not only on community side, but if we keep blaming each other we won't get anywere.

[minago]

Putting something behind you isn't sweeping it under the rug. Maybe you haven't realized it, but your self righteous crusading has already destroyed any chance of peacefully resolving this and getting the contests back. You haven't helped anyone and keep hurting the community more. Now this is bordering on harassment and could result in these forums being taken away completely because of a few individuals. If that's what you want, then by all means, keep it up.

silverspar you know what i just found out about this stuff last night .

and really i haven't said much of anything about it,but in the past you have managed too get in my face on occasion and even to a point have called me a conspiracy theorists.

involving plot lines with the moon.

or whatever but you know what there comes a time when enough's a nuff consider yourself ignored .

[TreffnonX]

um since the servers shut down ,lan mode would be helpful about now

the reference was made before the servers shut down... by now it truly would be a good idea, agreed.

[minago]

the reference was made before the servers shut down... by now it truly would be a good idea, agreed.

so in theory it would have been better to listen too customers in the first place except telling them "who the #### cares"

i rest my case.

[SirReginaldo]

Well Awen if you read this, you made the right choice. I agree. I this case people just need to let by gones be by gones. I just hope that we can see more contests like this one because I surely enjoyed it, and you can expect to see The Valor Enora in the game. I have been thinking that they will be my primary character. It will be so much fun. Well safe travels;)

[nhamlett]

Nothing is more important, enigmatic, or powerful as PR. PR makes and breaks companies. If you think someone can’t be fired over a single mistake that causes bad PR look no further than Michel Phelps. He’s a living legend yet Kellogg’s dropped him like a hot potato the second his bong hit showed up on the internet. Creating a bad image for company with its core constituents is what Awen has done.

To paraphrase a certain Republican Senator recently, she should come before the public like the Japanese and take a long bow. Then either quit or . . . well I don’t have to finish that.
This seems to be a little harsh for a human mistake sir.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Not to perpetuate anything, but since this thread is still going and people have already expressed their feelings multiple times, I would be slightly interested to see some actual figures. So...

How do you think the Alien Identification contest was handled? (http://www.polldaddy.com/p/1490252/)

I realize this may not get seen by many people, and thats fine. Just curious to see what the results look like :o

[Silverspar]

This is called "blaming the victim", I believe...

No, what you are doing is strawmanning. You aren't a victim. And you are perpetually making the situation worse.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

This seems to be a little harsh for a human mistake sir.

Not that I agree with the person you quoted, but I dont think anyone is upset about the mistake itself, but rather the way it was handled once the mistake was found.

[Silverspar]

silverspar you know what i just found out about this stuff last night .

and really i haven't said much of anything about it,but in the past you have managed too get in my face on occasion and even to a point have called me a conspiracy theorists.

involving plot lines with the moon.

or whatever but you know what there comes a time when enough's a nuff consider yourself ignored .

You seem to get hurt easily, especially since nothing was directed at you. Obviously you also think that publicly telling me you are ignoring me hurts my feelings or something. I really don't care either, since you seem to take things personally without actually reading.