Path to 2409: 2385 Supplemental Log

[nhamlett]

[I meet Annika Hansen in a cafeteria at the Daystrom Institute. Formerly known as Seven of Nine, a Borg drone, Hansen now looks almost completely human. Her residual Borg implants are barely noticeable. She does, however, retain the brevity of words and directness her fellow crewmembers from U.S.S. Voyager described. I thank her for joining me today. As is typical for her, she cuts to the chase immediately.]

You wish to ask me about why I left Starfleet.

Read More! (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2385.1)

[STO]

[I meet Annika Hansen in a cafeteria at the Daystrom Institute. Formerly known as Seven of Nine, a Borg drone, Hansen now looks almost completely human. Her residual Borg implants are barely noticeable. She does, however, retain the brevity of words and directness her fellow crewmembers from U.S.S. Voyager described. I thank her for joining me today. As is typical for her, she cuts to the chase immediately.]

You wish to ask me about why I left Starfleet.

Read More! (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2385.1)

what? and the llink is to the main page? / nm its working now (EDITED)


Do you actually believe that seven years, or twenty years, or a hundred years, would be anything more than a brief setback for the Borg? The Borg do not consider time as shallowly as humans do. The Borg are not limited by the life spans of individuals. The collective lives on. What one knew, all know. What one remembers, all remember.

hehe confirmed :P

[Voyager24]

Interesting, I greatly enjoyed reading that. :)

[CrazyVulcan]

BAAA BAA DUMM DUMM BAA DUUUUUUM

talk about omionious forshodowing :eek:

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Well...that was... kind of interesting...

Maybe a pic of 7 would have spiced it up a bit :o

[STO]

Well...that was... kind of interesting...

Maybe a pic of 7 would have spiced it up a bit :o

agreed... um many pictures of 7..... please :P

[gary279]

I think we all know that the Borg are still a threat and always will be until we know they have been destroyed!! Annika's work at the Daystrom Institute will help a lot when we next meet the Borg but how can Starfleet not have a fleet ready for them! All I know is my ship will be as ready as it can be.

[Sckullzy]

Wait, how would studying the technological applications of any powerful piece of equipment be “short term”?

[Reinkaos]

Hehe, nice update :D Seven seems a tad annoyed :o I suspect her work at the institute will mean we will have access to brog-specific countermeasures available to all ships, rather than special "anti-borg" ships from a taskforce.

[Trekkie]

This was indeed quite interesting, and I really hope that there are at least a few more supplemental logs in addition to the regular timeline updates because this was certainly an interesting perspective on the storyline. Keep up the great work, and I am really looking forward to seeing how the storyline progresses in the future!

[Sevenblade]

I think it was interesting to see that Annika adopted Icheb. Maybe that already happened somewhere and I just missed it, but it's interesting to see them attempting to reclaim their lives by making a family of fellow ex-Borg. I hope that at least Icheb will be able to help Starfleet defend against the Borg with his knowledge, if Annika won't work with them.

Also, I agree with Trekkie. I like the personal take of the supplementary logs. It gives the story a more intimate and in-depth feel. I hope there will be more in the future.

[jagerbolt]

Good stuff, the storyline is beginning to fill out quite nicely. More supplemental logs would be awesome! :D

[Jonathan]

Good stuff - very World War Zish.

[THORN74]

i think the first stop ill make in my shiny new starship on day 1 is the Daystrom institute. get me some "new" anti-borg weapons!!

[Varrangian]

So is this a hint at what we will see in the next timeline update?

Cool stuff thanks

[Sarile]

Interesting post-Starfleet turning a blind eye to the borg thinking them totally destroyed? I think not. Perhaps a group of bounty hunters/mercenaries will be formed from those at the Daystrom institute to hunt and destroy the borg.

Exciting times ahead!

Live Long and Prosper

[Flatfingers]

Do you remain in contact with Captain Chakotay?

I’m afraid I do not see the relevance of your question.

:p Nicely done.

It's strangely satisfying to see that there's still a bit of tabloid prurience even in the "evolved" humans of the late 24th century....

--Flatfingers

[curtst]

eh, Not nearly as a good read compared to previous updates. I don't like the interview thing.

I do however like that you guys changed the ship on the main page.

[knightofhyrule730]

hmmm when will the borg return

*goes to look at the STO trailer*

looks like last august! oh noes!

[phifur]

I enjoy it thanks it was a nice read :D

[whatinblueblazes]

I really enjoyed the change of pace offered by the interview format... I think that offering us a variety of different tidbits is an excellent way to build up to the final release. I'd love to see further interviews/conversations with characters on the Klingon and Starfleet sides of things.

[John]

that was a really interesting read indeeed wasn't expecting that kind of thing but did like the read and really well done at that :)

[KirksOtherSon]

Thank you for this.

As others have said, this `supplemental' approach not only gives us something to enjoy while waiting between official timeline "Path To ..." updates, but the supplemental information has a different focus to it; it can focus in on details which aren't necessarily crucial to the larger context of the game.

Well done, and the characterization of Ms. Hansen read as spot-on to me. If only the Voyager writers had consistently treated the character so well. ;)

I take it that Cryptic's "interviewer" here was Kestrel, yes?

In any case, thanks again all. Much appreciated.

KOS

[Arachnidus]

Wow. Very interesting.

[TwAgIssmuDe]

That was an interesting read, I liked the interview format of the entry, Surprisingly enjoyable to read, keep 'em comin.

[tom_riker01]

I have to admit, it's really too bad they showed a battle between Federation and Borg vessels in the trailer. If they had omitted the borg from the trailer in favor of Klingon/Federation battles, fed us this commentary and then shortly after game release, snuck a borg cube into the game to scare some poor unsuspecting player captain plum out of his mind...THAT would have been truely forboding.

As it is, thanks to the trailer, we all know the Borg are coming...they may already be here when we start playing.

It would have been much cooler to have a surprise visit from the Borg a while after game release. Give the players a chance to explore the galaxy, buildup resources, become familiar with the game and its mechanics and then have a colony or two vanish off the face of a world, sparking the tell-tale sign of impending disaster.

[Sevenblade]

I have to admit, it's really too bad they showed a battle between Federation and Borg vessels in the trailer. If they had omitted the borg from the trailer in favor of Klingon/Federation battles, fed us this commentary and then shortly after game release, snuck a borg cube into the game to scare some poor unsuspecting player captain plum out of his mind...THAT would have been truely forboding.

As it is, thanks to the trailer, we all know the Borg are coming...they may already be here when we start playing.

It would have been much cooler to have a surprise visit from the Borg a while after game release. Give the players a chance to explore the galaxy, buildup resources, become familiar with the game and its mechanics and then have a colony or two vanish off the face of a world, sparking the tell-tale sign of impending disaster.

Well, then again, it is kind of unnerving to know simply that they definitely are coming; we just don't know when or where. You could still be on a mission to transport an ambassador or something when all of a sudden a transwarp corridor opens up on top of you and a Cube starts tearing you apart.

[Gul_Marritza]

I enjoyed the read Awen, so how often will the suplementals be shared with the masses? Also, is the "Cryptic Inquirer" going to interview impact personalities within the Romulan, Klingon, and (my favorite) Cardassian societies or just Federation?

[Michell]

i love the borg story lines.:D

[MoppyCGDaniels]

Resistance is futile, your technological and biological components...

I think a threat isn't related like such things as Wolf 359 were the reason for building the USS Defiant. 7 of 9 will do good at the Daystom institue. Maybe a transwarp conduit alike the one Cpt. Janeway had used could improve.

I'm no one of the people who are scared of the Borg cuz the Dominion kept the Federation busy when the USS Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant. The Dominion was the cause why the Fed become esential in the morality, technology & the fleet. From the Borg we had learned to be ready for such build up military presence within things like timetravelling or ships like the Luna class. That leads to allies like the Romulans were at the dusk of the Dominion War & tensions with the Klingons could push their hostilaty again our allies.

Eventhough you could say Borg don't experience time as it passes for humons. Or the remaining collective plans to get mankind in the grasp by underminding before Warp capable.

[Fencer8]

If the Borg are coming then one will need massive amounts of reserves of people and vessels. Construction and repair facilities are an absolute must and in numbers. Now when the game comes out will we be able to interact with 7 of 9 and get a tour of her astrometricts lab and dinner. As for The Doctor, it is looking like someone is going to have to do a rescue mission of some sort to set The Doctor free, and arrange hiding.

[0wl]

I would be more interested in her current "activities"!

[Captain_Intrepid]

Interesting, when I read it, I could hear Seven of Nine/Annika Hansen speaking the words.

I know, that's irrelevant, but after watching Voyager while it was on the air, it's hard not to place the voice to the character.

[nikitamage10]

Good story, it's actually funny because it sounds quite similar to my entry for the identification contest.
Do these two seem similar:

I offer him a drink and ask where he is from:

Stranger: “Huh, you locals sure are nice around here.” “Not like back in Glisne.”

You :“Glisne?”

Stranger: “Yeah not many people have heard about us. Well I’m a Sporian, the name's Ish’Yal, or Ish for short,” “We live on a planet called Glisne, far on the edge of the Delta Quadrant , in the Hinleer Sector.”

You: “Hinleer Sector, never heard of it”

Ish: “I wouldn’t imagine you would. You see long ago, the Borg took over the sector, we tried to rebel but it was useless. Then one day they just left. Guess they found somewhere better to pillage. Anyways, our people were afraid they might come back, so we had to prepare. To this day we have still been preparing.” “I came out here to recruit help to convince my people that the Borg are not coming back.” “But since I have left my planet, I’ve been having suspicions on what are real goal is. I mean why are we hoarding all the xoranium and why have our moons been explored?” “Something is not right.”

You: “I see, by the way, if you don’t mind me asking, what are your spikes for?”

Ish: “These are the reminder of how the Borg terrorized our people.” “The Borg tried to assimilate our people, but for some reason the only thing that happened to us was growing these spikes. Our assimilation-resistance is what let us survive so long.” “Ever new child since was born with these spikes.”

Ish: “Oh look my ship’s been fixed, I have to go.”

Ish stood up and walked away, then for a brief moment he stopped. Something was wrong, he quickly twitched, and I could have sworn he whispered “Resistance is Futile.”:eek:

:D See anything?

[MoppyCGDaniels]

I personaly see according to the timeline the Fed within the Voyager had returned at the place of studies in the Daystom.

To have timetravel in the game don't necessary has to be like the shattered universe. Just think about a D7 Battlecruiser in a fleet of ships from this era. Like a Bird of Prey (K'Tink class), a Vor'cha or even a K'Vor'cha.
For the Fed would either the Steamrunner class, or Sabre serve as well 2385 more alike the Luna. Further on along the Achilies, or Norway... Ofcourse a Romulan shuttle or raider would interessed me also.

[SZilart]

A very, very good read. I think that the Voyager line will play a great role with STO. And I HOPE that we do see Captain Chaoktay. More over, Icheb and of course, Naomi Wileman!

Perhaps several story based content missions having them as a 'specail' guest among your crew?

Kudos to those who took the time into making that interview... almost reminds me of what I would have done. Like with some of my work I have already done here.

Keep it up!

[dmckey]

good read, thank you.

[Chillee]

Simply excellent.

[hustlecore]

that was boring but i guess its better than nothing

[Dext]

This was something new but I is also something we all ready did kow about the Borg.

[Sevenblade]

that was boring but i guess its better than nothing

Sheesh, try not to be so positive :rolleyes:

[KirksOtherSon]

that was boring but i guess its better than nothing

I'm sorry sir. This is the Star Trek Online forum. For abject negativity, you want the Star Wars: The Old Republic Online forum. Step right this way ... (LINK (http://www.swtor.com/community/))

KOS

[Sherp]

Seven of Ni-- I'm sorry, Annika Hansen is going to be a mom?

As if poor Icheb doesn't have enough issues already! Poor guy!

Can't wait to see how that turns out. Who knows, maybe they're perfect for each other.

[ElimGarakovsky]

The Borg are right. In an environment where species and cultures can enhance themselves in various ways (genetically and/or technologically) a type of evolution will take place. Those that are the most successful will prevail.

It is really quite annoying that Starfleet and the Federation tend to reject everything that is different. Bashir almost got kicked out, ex-Borg are deborgified. The episode where 7 of 9 was argued with Janeway was horrendous in this way - Janeway was not even able to conceive that something besides a pure human may be better.

[haplo8]

Like most people that have posted above me, I rather enjoyed this read.

The last "path" entry was pretty cool, but I also enjoy these other views on things.

It's a nice way to break it up and not just be a historical record.

Keep em comin! :cool:

[marscentral]

I enjoyed that. It was easy to imagine her saying it, well done.

[robgomm]

Yeah that was really good.

Do you think the Borg are the ancient threat we will face?

[Scars]

I'm hoping for a return of the borg that way we can either join them or kill them all 1 of the 2 borg are my fav. thing about all things treky an as soon as we can play 1 i am, the borg will return as 7 said it's only a matter of time.

i think it will be some time before STO players see the borg tho. To allow STO players to learn the in's an out's of the game maybe an EXP.I dout that will be seeing the borg the first main game an if the borg do attack they should attack openly an not just in an instance or just in 1 area everyone should feel the danager from it to know that at anytime the borg could attack them... at any place at any time EVEN OFFLINE:eek:

[dinendae]

Excellent! I can't wait for an interview with the Doctor, to find out more about his legal case.

[deeboboy]

i did not realise that starfleet had taken mass suicide as a hobbie maybe the borg are fed up of the human race and are just mass building ships and rebuilding unimatrix 0 before the launch the biggest attack on earth they have ever seen maybe its all in the great plan of killing the federation who knows. planning building and defending against the borg must be a great advantage when dealing with the romulans and klingons or the breen....

what makes me laugh the most is how can the vulcans think this is logical and let them proceed

[Gen00b]

Very nice. Inspired by World War Z? :D

[jbarker82]

It's kindof strange that the Feds would just decide that the Borg are no longer a threat purely because there have been no sightings in 7 years (by the year 2385). I would have thought that Picard and Janeway would both be telling Starfleet they are wrong? However, we still have 24 years to get through yet before we hit the actual STO year of 2409 and i'm pretty sure the Borg will have returned by then .......

Good read. I hope there are more of these. They give a good insight into how the original characters are getting on and their thoughts of current situations. I agree with Maltz about doing the same sort of thing but with the Doctor next. That would be very interesting.

[CaptainFrankie]

7 of 9 can assimilate me any time she wants to. lol:rolleyes:

[bigfox]

nice little piece of info, hopfully sto will have a large borg influence and a chance for many large scale attacks to try and defend starfleet.

[willriker09]

Very cool. We should have more of these supplemental logs where we get to hear directly from individuals from the Star Trek universe commenting on the events in the timeline.

[fablis310]

I genuinely enjoyed this format for introducing us to the backstory involved with the game. It essentially confirms that the Borg will play a major part in the conflict of the game. Perhaps all this talk on other forums about the strict divide between the federation and the Klingon Empire will be resolved in the face of a greater enemy and the wars between those two sides won't last too long or will at least be severely diminished. Intriguing!!

[MagnusTyrel]

I lov how lots of people are like "OMG! 7 is so hot cant wait to meet her in game !"

Need I remind everyone that if we do find her in game she would be in her late 50's or early 60's

But aside from that this was a great rea , hopefully more of the same will follow...

[fablis310]

I lov how lots of people are like "OMG! 7 is so hot cant wait to meet her in game !"

Need I remind everyone that if we do find her in game she would be in her late 50's or early 60's

But aside from that this was a great rea , hopefully more of the same will follow...

With her ex-Borg status is it possible that she wouldn't age quite the same way as others? Pure speculation but I don't remember if they ever addressed how old she currently is.

[USS_Paragon]

This was really cool to see a more personalized approach to the overall time line. Great idea! Can't wait to see more of these!

[Doug3575]

Keep the timeline moving!

[Tumek]

Ohhh how i have missed you 7 ^^
im glad to see that she is going to play a role in the game

[Captain-Picard]

agreed... um many pictures of 7..... please :P

Concept art!!!!! Is she going to be in STO?:D

[dr.watson]

This didn't make any sense. Starfleet wouldn't have dissolved that task force or took down their defenses, especially after how close the Borg came to taking over Earth. If anything, the return of Voyager with all their information would have bolstered their defenses. It would not be unprecedented for Starfleet to keep defenses up for as long as the Borg. In Kirk's day he encountered a race known as the Furies which did a good job of wrecking the Klingon fleet until the Enterprise came in to save the day. Starfleet setup defense posts around the area where the Furies entered the alpha quadrant through an artificial wormhole, and those defenses persisted until the Furies returned during Picard's turn at the wheel.

Any race that poses that much threat to the alpha quadrant and is unpredictable at their return requires constant vigilance, and it makes no sense for Starfleet to decide to go to sleep on it.

[MarkoPhoto]

It was good to hear from 7 of 9. She has the same human last name as I do (Hansen). Its pretty cool to get some info on the story line, as to what has been happening in the Star Trek Universe. I would like to learn more about what some of the other characters have been up to also. Very cool.

I first heard about STO last year in GameInformer. I thought it would be up and running by now. I've recently read that 2011 is when it will be up. Is that Correct? Is development taking that long or is there some other reason its taking a long time?

[Gizmo]

That was a nice little supplemental log and it was good to hear from Seven.
I'm kind of scratching my head like Seven though. Starfleet only waits a few years and then pack the whole task force in? Makes no sense, especially against an enemy like the Borg. Definitely looking forward to the next time line update.

Marko, Cryptic only got the license for STO just over a year ago. That's not very long in MMO terms for development. Cryptic is actually blazing along compared to many other MMOs so we just have to be patient.

[nhamlett]

Thank you for this.

As others have said, this `supplemental' approach not only gives us something to enjoy while waiting between official timeline "Path To ..." updates, but the supplemental information has a different focus to it; it can focus in on details which aren't necessarily crucial to the larger context of the game.

Well done, and the characterization of Ms. Hansen read as spot-on to me. If only the Voyager writers had consistently treated the character so well. ;)

I take it that Cryptic's "interviewer" here was Kestrel, yes?

In any case, thanks again all. Much appreciated.

KOS
Actually, Alivet wrote this. She's fantastically talented and you will see more of this from her. :)

[YllekHomsat]

This didn't make any sense. Starfleet wouldn't have dissolved that task force or took down their defenses, especially after how close the Borg came to taking over Earth. If anything, the return of Voyager with all their information would have bolstered their defenses.
I could imagine the Dominion infiltrating Starfleet leadership and choosing this option to weaken the Federation.

[Gul_Marritza]

This didn't make any sense. Starfleet wouldn't have dissolved that task force or took down their defenses, especially after how close the Borg came to taking over Earth. If anything, the return of Voyager with all their information would have bolstered their defenses. It would not be unprecedented for Starfleet to keep defenses up for as long as the Borg. In Kirk's day he encountered a race known as the Furies which did a good job of wrecking the Klingon fleet until the Enterprise came in to save the day. Starfleet setup defense posts around the area where the Furies entered the alpha quadrant through an artificial wormhole, and those defenses persisted until the Furies returned during Picard's turn at the wheel.

Any race that poses that much threat to the alpha quadrant and is unpredictable at their return requires constant vigilance, and it makes no sense for Starfleet to decide to go to sleep on it.

You claim that it doesn't make sense...However the U.S. government/military has done this same activity throughout our history. When they see an adversary hurt, they change their focus to another possible adversary and keep looking away until the first one somehow returns to power and then the government and military are in a rush to re-organize. Governments do this even if the Analsyts say different. Does it make sense? No, but it is done.

[Drunk1n]

Thanks for that Awen, a good read - does this mean that the next path to 2409: 2386 is on its way soon. =D

[Desert-Mouse]

I really liked how this one was set up. It has a much more personal touch to it, and it puts a nice little focus to it that you couldn't get with the normal delivery system.

I would love to see more like it, interviews, news reports, maybe even some memos or personal communications to go with the normal history.

[Ozymandias]

Like other enlightened folk here, I find myself concerned at Starfleet's ridiculous move to disband the task force... but I am not at all surprised. It ties in tragically with Starfleet's decision to 'refocus' away from warship-construction back to science vessels and whatnot. While I applaud the Sciences, only through vigilance and preparation will the Alpha Quadrant powers make a stand against the Borg when they move against us once more. The Federation deciding to effectively dismantle its' threat response forces so it can be the 'kinder, gentler' Starfleet will do little good when Borg cubes are overruning the borders or opening transwarp conduits in major Federation systems!

No doubt it will be up to others to stand while the Federation Council members run about like hlai with their heads cut off, throwing together ad-hoc suicide fleets! *shakes head*

[/RP] ;)

A good read, and definitely a cool addition to the storyline! I've been wondering what Picard and Janeway think about this move - hopefully we'll hear more from them on this, since they both have had a lot of involvement with the Borg, and understand the threat they represent!

[Trekid]

Do you think Section 31 is ignoring the Borg?

[Ensign.Ricky]

Actually, Alivet wrote this. She's fantastically talented and you will see more of this from her. :)

I was kind of hoping it was Jake Sisko performing these interviews. I always wondered what happened to him and the rest of DS9. To me it would make sense that being a war journalist/reporter he would be looking for good stories. I bet the role of a space reporter would be pretty neat. ;)

[Sckullzy]

I think as far as disbanding the task force goes they could just be looking at it as a waste of resources to prepare for the last war when there are two more tangible threats on the horizon. I’m not saying it’s a decision I would agree with but seven years of aiming a rifle at the empty space where an enemy used to be would realistically wear down a lot of peoples resolve; especially when two of your closest very well armed and unstable neighbors have started giving you and each other the evil eye.

Do you think Section 31 is ignoring the Borg?

Section 31 is largely focused on covert ops and espionage and since the Borg pretty much tell you everything they’re doing whether or not you even ask them they might not even be very useful.

[BarkingAlien]

This was very well done. An in-universe interview I could see glueing many Federation citizens to their holovids (I always found if funny that they imply there is no TV in the future - um, don't you have TV to thank for your show being on?). In addition, as someone who despises 36 of D...er...7 of 9, this is the coolest display of her character I've ever seen/read. I'm glad there were no images so that we can get just her attitude and mind set. Very impressive.

Hope there is more like this to come. Oh, and I like the idea suggested by Ensign.Ricky that some of these should be down by Jake Sisko. Good thinking!

AD
Barking Alien
http://barkingalien.blogspot.com

[fablis310]

I was kind of hoping it was Jake Sisko performing these interviews. I always wondered what happened to him and the rest of DS9. To me it would make sense that being a war journalist/reporter he would be looking for good stories. I bet the role of a space reporter would be pretty neat. ;)

That is a very wonderful point and I never even thought of some of these "smaller" characters from the shows appearing in the game even, or at least the backstory. I think it would be a great deal of fun to interact with the likes of Jake Sisko or even the Doctor. Not sure if this will happen at all, but would still be alot of fun.

[keeperofthepies]

Good read. Informative for trekkies and non-trekkies alike. Looking forward to more :D

[Janeway_fan]

:D I'm so happy that you're including Voyager into STO... at least you are right? Cause you speak of 7 of 9 which is necessary. I just hope you include everybody else from the Star Trek Voyager crew; like Harry, Chakotay, ADMIRAL Janeway, Tuvok, Torres, Paris. You should definitely use the Voyager crew... what do you peoples think??

[Janeway_fan]

With her ex-Borg status is it possible that she wouldn't age quite the same way as others? Pure speculation but I don't remember if they ever addressed how old she currently is.
I'm pretty sure it was said near the beginning of her arrival that she was about 20... and near the end (season 6) she didn't age much.

[Janeway_fan]

agreed... um many pictures of 7..... please :P
you desperate person.... :head shake no:

[Loekii]

Thank you for this.

As others have said, this `supplemental' approach not only gives us something to enjoy while waiting between official timeline "Path To ..." updates, but the supplemental information has a different focus to it; it can focus in on details which aren't necessarily crucial to the larger context of the game.

Well done, and the characterization of Ms. Hansen read as spot-on to me. If only the Voyager writers had consistently treated the character so well. ;)

<snip>

In any case, thanks again all. Much appreciated.

KOS

I agree.

Even though this was Federation based, this Gorn did enjoy the read, then again 7of9/Anika is more intellectual than the typical Starfleet Officer. While Starfleet grows secure in their laziness, the Gorns agree with Anika about the Borg threat.

I do like the 'supplemental approach', and for the general reasons stated above -- nice snacks between Path Articles, as well as providing a More focused look at specific events, which cannot really be fleshed out in the Path Articles.

As always, I do hope to that such suppliments are not always so Fed Centric. Would be nice to see some information from the Klingon side -- and for me personally, I would prefer it coming from an Orion reporter, than a Klingon reporter. Orions seem to have a better flair for words in my opinion. ;)

[Blackfire2]

I very much enjoyed this suppliment, best writing from cryptic so far :)

[Loekii]

With her ex-Borg status is it possible that she wouldn't age quite the same way as others? Pure speculation but I don't remember if they ever addressed how old she currently is.

I am not a Trekie, so I don't know if the has ever been mention about Borg Drones and aging.

However, given the status of Drones, I would not expect to see any 'slowing down' of the aging process, simply because there would be no direct benefit to the Collective. Drones = disposable, so the collective would not be looking into ways to extend their life cycle -- in fact, I would would not be surprised to see that the added stress of assimilation, accelerates the aging process. What one drone knows, all drones know, so there is little value in keeping one drone alive for longer than normal, when a 'new drone' would immediately replace it.

I can understand the desire to keep her 'youthful', but I would say that is driven more from an attraction standpoint, rather than a practical canon standpoint --- people would not care so much if 7of9 was an unattractive female Drone, for example.

I would prefer to see her at a more mature age, where she is less a 'sex symbol', and more an intellectual figurehead in he scientific community.

[jadehorde]

Wait, how would studying the technological applications of any powerful piece of equipment be “short term”?

Maybe more in the line of short term gains. Given the timeframe of the device in question, and the Fed's holier than thou approach to timetravel (and yet being the beneficiary on several occasions) it's a fair assessment.

[dr.watson]

You claim that it doesn't make sense...However the U.S. government/military has done this same activity throughout our history. When they see an adversary hurt, they change their focus to another possible adversary and keep looking away until the first one somehow returns to power and then the government and military are in a rush to re-organize. Governments do this even if the Analsyts say different. Does it make sense? No, but it is done.

The US government has bases around the world organized and prepared for the regional enemies where they are located. The US government has task forces designed and implemented for specific problems, has for a long time. The US government doesn't just shut any of these down for no reason. You should recheck your history and the status of the US goverment around the world. Aside from that, the US government has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

[dr.watson]

:D I'm so happy that you're including Voyager into STO... at least you are right? Cause you speak of 7 of 9 which is necessary. I just hope you include everybody else from the Star Trek Voyager crew; like Harry, Chakotay, ADMIRAL Janeway, Tuvok, Torres, Paris. You should definitely use the Voyager crew... what do you peoples think??

While some of the crew may still be in Starfleet, I'd rather have STO be more about us than them. Don't you want to be a legend? This is your chance. Remember this is years after that show's timeline, so the ship itself could even be gone, the crew split off to multiple other ships, or even gone from Starfleet. Or dead.

[SenshiBat]

and Colour Blind test ;)

I love blue.. but it represents a contrast prob for me.. I easily highlighted it with a mouse drag... and continued a good read..
The Continuing EMH struggles will have me looking at the Habeas Corpus Brief again..
Daystrom Institute wisely keeping the Borg vigilance and not hiring w Crusher to play with nanos priceless.

Tnx


Awen Fan Club Member

[Delta4Elite2]

That Seven always a great conversationalist.:cool:

[Sevenblade]

I think as far as disbanding the task force goes they could just be looking at it as a waste of resources to prepare for the last war when there are two more tangible threats on the horizon. I’m not saying it’s a decision I would agree with but seven years of aiming a rifle at the empty space where an enemy used to be would realistically wear down a lot of peoples resolve; especially when two of your closest very well armed and unstable neighbors have started giving you and each other the evil eye.



Section 31 is largely focused on covert ops and espionage and since the Borg pretty much tell you everything they’re doing whether or not you even ask them they might not even be very useful.

Agreed. I think people are confusing what we know with what Starfleet knows. We already know the Borg are coming back, thanks to a trailer featuring them and a pointed interview with Annika Hansen foreshadowing their return. However, Starfleet is clearly not listening to her point of view, and they believe the Borg to be defeated or at least severely hindered in their combat capacity. As such, they see it a waste to have a force dedicated to defending against a believed (relatively) harmless enemy. Since the transwarp hub was destroyed, Starfleet believes (erroneously, of course) that even should the Borg rebuild their military capacity, they would be limited in their ability to get that force here as fast as they usually could, being limited to standard modes of transportation.

I'm not defending Starfleet's decision. Everyone can see it's wrong, and not intelligent in the slightest, but at least understandable, if you're willing to see it from an in-universe perspective.

[metaltyrant]

Ok, first I havnt read all forum post.
apparently the game wont follow any continuity with the books because with the destiny triliogy the borg were ....changed to a race that will help people instead of assimilating them. (if you havnt read it do so )all traces of borg implants disapperead from seven at the end of the series.

now it is not impossible for the original borg to return in some way ...this is star trek after all

[Sckullzy]

Maybe more in the line of short term gains. Given the timeframe of the device in question, and the Fed's holier than thou approach to timetravel (and yet being the beneficiary on several occasions) it's a fair assessment.

I’m not sure I follow. Do you mean timeframe as in because it’s from the future? Because if so that would be a reason for the Federation not to develop technology derived from it at all let alone engage in a legal battle for the right to do so. And still doesn’t explain how any new field of scientific research can be thought of as “short term”.
Short term implies that the gains have some expiration date. How can that be predicted about any field of reputable science let alone one with the type of potential and wide reaching applications of this one has?

[Sevenblade]

Ok, first I havnt read all forum post.
apparently the game wont follow any continuity with the books because with the destiny triliogy the borg were ....changed to a race that will help people instead of assimilating them. (if you havnt read it do so )all traces of borg implants disapperead from seven at the end of the series.

now it is not impossible for the original borg to return in some way ...this is star trek after all

Well don't forget that while Cryptic said that they would be incorporating some ideas from the pocket novels, they did say that they were going to pick and choose. They clearly made a decision that they want the Borg to be the current big bad guys for everyone, regardless of faction. While the Destiny series are very well written and have the best suggestion for the creation, and even destruction, of the Borg I've seen yet (though it was slightly Deus Ex Machin-ish), it doesn't mesh with the universe that Cryptic wants to make. So they'll take small details from those books, probably include mostly stuff from the TNG relaunch series and the Titan series, but don't expect much Destiny to go in there.

[simiteen]

I love the interview format and look forward to more updates. And, like most of us here, agree that disbanding the anti-Borg taskforce was just asking for trouble. I do wonder that, in the case that 7 of 9 doesn't make an appearance, will we see her children? I mean, last I heard she was starting a relationship with Chakoaty (can't remember how to spell it). For that matter, I wonder if Cryptic will throw in any other sons/daughters of our favorite characters. Hmm.... Just food for thought. (I hoped I said that right.)

[dr.watson]

Well don't forget that while Cryptic said that they would be incorporating some ideas from the pocket novels, they did say that they were going to pick and choose. They clearly made a decision that they want the Borg to be the current big bad guys for everyone, regardless of faction. While the Destiny series are very well written and have the best suggestion for the creation, and even destruction, of the Borg I've seen yet (though it was slightly Deus Ex Machin-ish), it doesn't mesh with the universe that Cryptic wants to make. So they'll take small details from those books, probably include mostly stuff from the TNG relaunch series and the Titan series, but don't expect much Destiny to go in there.

Last time I checked, Paramount didn't let anyone dictate how the Star Trek universe was shaped without their approval, and they are pretty strict about things meshing together.

[SirReginaldo]

Last time I checked, Paramount didn't let anyone dictate how the Star Trek universe was shaped without their approval, and they are pretty strict about things meshing together.

I would love to see alot of paramounts fingers/money in this game. It would be amazing seeing what cryptic could do, and heck what shows/series could be the product of such an action:D

[Sevenblade]

Last time I checked, Paramount didn't let anyone dictate how the Star Trek universe was shaped without their approval, and they are pretty strict about things meshing together.

Ok. That's pretty much a given for anyone who has even some kind of understanding of canon and canon policy. No one ever said STO was going to be canon or officially endorsed by Paramount as such. It's fairly common knowledge that STO will not be canon, and therefore can choose whatever storyline they want to assemble in creating the game. Granted, they will have to deal with Paramount in getting the rights to use all of their intellectual property (which they probably already have, seeing as how there's even an STO moving forward at all), but they still have creative license over their own game. To use a sad example, there's no way anyone seriously considers Legacy canon, yet it was still made without Paramount having a problem. Don't forget that the canon policy still applies only to the movies and shows, though I'll admit I wish they would endorse some books (like Titan and others), and STO if it proves popular and retains the quality of the storyline so far.

[Super_Goku]

Starfleet needs to wake up. if they dont Prepare for the borg then VERY BAD THINGS HAPPEN. When I read this Interview it personally reminded me of a certain clip of a TNG episode...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LFXbxmGVY&feature=related

You wont be dissapointed.

[doam]

Nice one, I like it. Not too sure who Alivet is, I avoid these forums as much as possible. :p But a <3 for her anyway. Just don't tell my wife. I already get in trouble for giving a <3 to CO too often.



...and sam axe and denny crane and dean winchester and bsg and golf and candy and mcdonalds.

[Trekster]

sweet, does this mean i get to pay 15$ a month to see 7of9 up close and personal? damn, too bad im gonna be a klingon :P

[KirksOtherSon]

Actually, Alivet wrote this. She's fantastically talented and you will see more of this from her. :)

Well then, thank you Alivet! More, please!

Pick a character, any character -- there must be so many stories to be told between the end of Star Trek: Nemesis and 2409.

Cheers,

KOS

[Sevenblade]

That's not even what I was talking about. Dear little Annika is going to be impossible to negotiate with on subjects such as bedtime, driving privileges, or whose turn it is to replicate dinner. Every such discussion will invariably end with "Crying is irrelevant," or simply "YOU WILL COMPLY."

Not to mention that such motherly subtleties as tucking Icheb into bed, seeing him off to school, and kissing scrapes to make them better will be completely lost on her. Heck, for scrapes, she'll probably just squirt some nanoprobes at him--problem solved.

In fact, nanoprobes may turn out to be her all-purpose panacea for all of life's ills. Failed a test? Nanoprobes to augment the brain. Beat up at school? Add more nanoprobes. Dumped on his first date? NANOPROBES. Icheb will be 90% metal by weight by the time he graduates from the Academy and will be as emotionally distant as the next galaxy.

Seriously. Annika Hansen is not qualified to be a mother. No way, no how.

No, I got that, I was just adding another con to having Annika as a mom. Though you seem to forget that Icheb is already a teenager, almost full grown by now. I really hope she's not supposed to tuck him or kiss scrapes to make them better lol.
I was just saying that if Icheb makes any male adolescent friends at the academy, their hormones won't let him hear the end of their misguided fantasies about his mom, which can be quite awkward.

Of course, then the person right after me had to prove my point by not even reading the intent of my post and drool all over a fictional character like a dog in heat :rolleyes:

[Sherp]

No, I got that, I was just adding another con to having Annika as a mom. Though you seem to forget that Icheb is already a teenager, almost full grown by now. I really hope she's not supposed to tuck him or kiss scrapes to make them better lol.
I was just saying that if Icheb makes any male adolescent friends at the academy, their hormones won't let him hear the end of their misguided fantasies about his mom, which can be quite awkward.

Of course, then the person right after me had to prove my point by not even reading the intent of my post and drool all over a fictional character like a dog in heat :rolleyes:

Are you saying that raising a teenager is easier than raising a ten-year-old? :p I think the parents of the world would contest that idea.

Just teasing. I see your point.

Hee hee hee...
"It is time for you to regenerate."
"Mother, I have not yet finished my--"
shhik *nanotubules come out* "COMPLY."

[Jomir]

Great addition to the story of 2385! Thanks!

Since they're on some of the first released screenshots it's likely we will encounter the Borg again.
In my opinion the crucial point about the Borg is to make them really dangerous again. That is why I think it's necessary to have "new" Borg in 2409 which have evolved in some way and are coming back with new strenght, new abilities to be a real threat.

Weak Borg are boring, I want to fear them!

[Fernos]

Sheesh, try not to be so positive :rolleyes:


It's Lotusfleet what do you expect? :rolleyes:

Anywho I thought it was excellent they got the Character of Seven dead on, and it was a very Trekish setting. Keep up the awesomeness Cryptic.

[Fernos]

I lov how lots of people are like "OMG! 7 is so hot cant wait to meet her in game !"

Need I remind everyone that if we do find her in game she would be in her late 50's or early 60's

But aside from that this was a great rea , hopefully more of the same will follow...



If you keep up with the Trek universe you would know that Sixty is considered the beginning of Middle age; diametrically Middle Age today is considered be forty Five (acording to U.S. Administration on Aging) up five years from forty in 1982...now I don't know about you but I think there are some smoking Forty year olds out there.

Just saying

[AnnikaHansen]

The Borg is like the common cold...
There is no cure, just a treatment...
Persistence is anything but futile.

[Nelson]

interesting read, may bring about some good anti-Borg messures for all our ships

[Renanton]

I think this storyline sets up for a series of missions in game. Helping out the Daystrom Institute acquiring rare parts and pieces of borg technology to help further research, as well as, like Annika states, when, not if, they show up in the Alpha Quadrant again.

I am soooo looking forward to it. :)

[ronaldheld]

Interesting update, but uncertain how globally significant it is.

[Temtavia]

The borg are dreadful and have no fashion sense whatsoever. The borg need an extreme makeover, which I shall provide with my ship's weapons system. Seven of nine is too pedantic to serve aboard my ship tho and I dont like crewmember who question my orders. Keep up the good work.

Tem

[OldBoy]

This didn't make any sense.

Didn't make much sense to me either, other than to whet players' appetites.

They choose a goal and continue until they achieve it. The Borg are infinitely patient. They can afford to be.

If their sole purpose is assimilation of cultures and technologies, and they're so intent on getting the Federation's, then why stop and wait? Doesn't seem like a machine, however biologically supplemented, to be patient in tackling a problem. And how can they afford to be, since it's most likely that their target's level of scientific sophistication will only advance during that time, and it make more difficult to overcome (assuming the Borg, without this benefit, won't be doing the same)?

I'd love it if they did show up, they were still sporting Pentium processors against the latest in 25th-century hardware, and got blown out of the sky.

[Horizon113]

Interesting I find it odd though that they shut down the borg taskforce after only 7 years if my memory is correct they had ships patrolling the romulan neutral zone for over 50 years even though they had no contact with them. I think it is interesting that starfleet would give up so quickly on the taskforcce even though the bord is vastly more dangerous then the romulans.:eek:

[Sckullzy]

Interesting I find it odd though that they shut down the borg taskforce after only 7 years if my memory is correct they had ships patrolling the romulan neutral zone for over 50 years even though they had no contact with them. I think it is interesting that starfleet would give up so quickly on the taskforcce even though the bord is vastly more dangerous then the romulans.:eek:

The neutral zone was an established border right on the edge of Federation space and part of an active diplomatic agreement of non-aggression. The Borg as far as anyone without the benefit the game trailer knows (good call Sevenblade) are crippled and stranded 75 light years away in the delta quadrant. It is very difficult to ask people to plan and divert resources for an attack that they don’t think will happen for almost a century if ever; and even that is working on the assumption that the Borg haven't found anything else more pressing to do.
If the trailer is showing one of the initial attacks of the Borg and it takes place during the time frame the game is set in it would still be another 24 years after this interview.

Once again I'm not saying I think its the right move but it's not nearly as unrealistic as people are making it out to be. To them it probably looks like when you get an old guy on the bus yelling about his German neighbor being a spy for the Kaiser.

[Loekii]

I don't think peoples' opinion that the Borg are still a threat has anything to do with the trailer nor the knowledge that they will be antagonists in the game.

It is tactical common sense. The Borg were on the verge of destroying the Alpha quadrant. They are far stronger than the romulans or the Klingons would ever be, and thus a much larger threat to the Federation. It is a significant danger, that could easily never be considered 'solved'.

So while I can understand how Star Fleet 'Intelligence' would come to the opinion that the Alpha Quadrant is Borg Safe, I would say that I am sure there are many that still remember the threat from 8 years prior, and lose sleep over their potential return.

It is not like it has been 100 years without incident. It is not like if the Borg suddenly arrived, that the Federation could easily hold their ground. If they return, it will be ugly, and that is why people feel that Star Fleets decision to be foolish. It like saying that Los Angeles and San Francisco are safe from earthquakes because it has been a decade since a significant one, and thus, earthquake insurance is no longer needed. :rolleyes:

[MajorD]

This may be the best addition to the time line yet. I think the tone of 7 of 9's words fit her characterization, and it's simply nice to have one's thoughts confirmed. Other than that, what makes it really work is that it doesn't just dump the information, even though it only introduced one piece of major historical information, and a few biographical details, it did so in a memorable, readable, accessible, and entertaining manner. If the other time line parts were done as stories of various styles, it would, overall, be more effective.

On the the technical side, did you mean to write amenable instead of amiable? Or did 7 think of herself as an authority and the Institute being responsive to her, rather than open and friendly? That would actually fit 7.:D

Background wise, it doesn't make sense for Starfleet not to recognize the Doctor as a person. Data was determined to be his own person easily enough, and the Exo-comps and nanites were declared by Picard to be people, and presumably that determination was supported by Starfleet. However, it really isn't up to Starfleet, but whatever civilian governments. Starfleet can decide how it will treat people, but can't do that for the civilizations that make up the Federation. The real beef the Doctor had was a civilian one, outside Starfleet, over publishing rights and the like.

[Loekii]

I agree with MajorD's comments about the Doctor and his sentient issue. I was surprised to see he issue arise, given the history with Data, the experiences on Voyager, etc. It does seem very 'anti-federationish'.

However, I do see the potential for game content coming from it, so on that note it makes some sense.

[Eidolonael]

Guess this basically confirms that the Borg are gonna be back, bigger, badder, and better than ever...

I can't wait.

[Sckullzy]

I don't think peoples' opinion that the Borg are still a threat has anything to do with the trailer nor the knowledge that they will be antagonists in the game.

It is tactical common sense. The Borg were on the verge of destroying the Alpha quadrant. They are far stronger than the romulans or the Klingons would ever be, and thus a much larger threat to the Federation. It is a significant danger, that could easily never be considered 'solved'.

So while I can understand how Star Fleet 'Intelligence' would come to the opinion that the Alpha Quadrant is Borg Safe, I would say that I am sure there are many that still remember the threat from 8 years prior, and lose sleep over their potential return.

It is not like it has been 100 years without incident. It is not like if the Borg suddenly arrived, that the Federation could easily hold their ground. If they return, it will be ugly, and that is why people feel that Star Fleets decision to be foolish. It like saying that Los Angeles and San Francisco are safe from earthquakes because it has been a decade since a significant one, and thus, earthquake insurance is no longer needed. :rolleyes:



Not only is in not common sense the Developers are going to have to write around the finale of Voyager to make any sense of it at all. Endgame was intended to show that the Borg had been crippled, stranded 75 years away and the queen was infected in a way that would spread to any of the collective that was linked to her.
The only common sense is that when you kill off a popular bad guy in fiction some writer will find a way to bring him back no matter how much it flies in the face of logic. Jason, magneto, Professor Moriarty, that kind of thing. The Borg aren’t coming back because it makes sense, they’re coming back because it’s good for the game and a lot of us want to see them.

I guess the big difference between the Borg and Earth quakes would be Fault lines are in a fixed location actually under L.A. and don’t go anywhere, and I’m not sure if you’re talking about a different Los Angeles but the last reported earth quake from the one I know happened yesterday. March 21 was the last time L.A. dealt with Earth quake activity. The last time before that? March 20th. There’s always earth quake activity on the west coast, that’s why people by the insurance. This is more like putting California’s National Guard on high alert to watch out for Kamikaze pilots who’ve just been waiting for the right moment to make their move. Like how the Klingons will be something the Federation will deal with daily and the Borg may only pop up for big events and yes the only reason we even know that much is because we saw video of it in the trailer.

Just phrasing the same illogical argument in a condescending tone doesn’t actually add any validity to it. Smug only really works when you’re making a good case. You might want to hold off on breaking out :rolleyes: <--- this little guy until you have something a little better than that "earth quake" gem.

[Horizon113]

Im afraid I can not agree with your assumption that the Borg are stranded Zombie. For all intents and purposes the Borg have treanswarp capability and if I do recall corectly in Voyager they still have one more of those wormhole cluster nexus thingies. Or is it 2? Even without a queen the borg would undoubtedly have backups in case unimatrix 01 went down. Im afraid with all the data that the federation got from Voyager it would seem to be a tragic tactical error of the federation to dissasemble the taskforce in light of the knowledge they have gained from seven and the rest of her crew.

Im not saying that this is a bad choice by the developers and that it shouldnt of happened, In fact it seems to follow along with the direction starfleet is going, making rash and not intelligent decisions because they are blinded by the aftermath of the dominion war and the unstable situation with the romulans not to mention the ongoing tention with the klingons and khitomer. I must applaud the developers on their story line it seems to be true to form and quite logical.

[nagash303]

Voyager got stranded 75.000 lightyears away. They were in middel of Borg space in last episode so (I am guessing) 50.000 ly still to go. A distance we consider pretty safe after the collapsed transwarp center. Borg would have to use normal Warp for travelling that distance, so they better start the journey today for arrival in 2410. And if they consider to visit Romulus, they can come. We will disposal of them. I would rather fear Species 8472 :eek: How was that again? Cpt. Janeway detonated a bomb capable of disrupting their ships, resolting in a retreat of 8472? Tal Shiar only got little information on that. Poor Ensign Harry got infected by only one touch of the monstrousity.

Long live the praetor :rolleyes:

[Sevenblade]

Im afraid I can not agree with your assumption that the Borg are stranded Zombie. For all intents and purposes the Borg have treanswarp capability and if I do recall corectly in Voyager they still have one more of those wormhole cluster nexus thingies. Or is it 2? Even without a queen the borg would undoubtedly have backups in case unimatrix 01 went down. Im afraid with all the data that the federation got from Voyager it would seem to be a tragic tactical error of the federation to dissasemble the taskforce in light of the knowledge they have gained from seven and the rest of her crew.

Im not saying that this is a bad choice by the developers and that it shouldnt of happened, In fact it seems to follow along with the direction starfleet is going, making rash and not intelligent decisions because they are blinded by the aftermath of the dominion war and the unstable situation with the romulans not to mention the ongoing tention with the klingons and khitomer. I must applaud the developers on their story line it seems to be true to form and quite logical.

Guys, you're missing the point both Zombie and I are making. It's not about whether the Borg will come back or whether they have the capability to do so. Since we see them in the trailer, clearly they find some way to do so. That's a given. What you're not thinking about is Starfleet's perception of the Borg's capability.
Even if Voyager had only destroyed the transwarp hub, Starfleet would still probably take this stance. Seven of Nine stated in the episode that there were only 6 hubs in the galaxy, yet the visual showed only 4, one for each quadrant. The Alpha Quadrant one looked less developed than the others, which makes sense as the Borg have not infiltrated that on any scale. Voyager destroyed the Delta Quadrant one, which we can assume would be the most important and first one built (due to the Delta Quadrant being the Borg's home territory). Destroying even one hub kills so many conduits that you severely limit Borg transwarp transportation alone, but since Voyager seems to have destroyed a very important one, it would be very hard for the Borg to send the majority of their forces from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha. They might be able to send ships back to regroup in the Delta, but sending an attack force from the Delta doesn't seem likely.

And this is not even taking into account the virus. Granted, the Borg will adapt quickly to it, but in the meantime it seems to have severely scrambled their ability to communicate and coordinate, making those far flung ships that aren't in the Alpha Quadrant somewhat confused and without a commanding authority.

So you can kind of see why Starfleet thinks the Borg are at least wounded badly, and will take some time to recover, let alone get their forces here. That's not to say they have absolutely no defences and no plan should a Borg incursion occur. They simply don't see it as efficient in keeping around a specifically Anti-Borg taskforce when the ships could be used for more general defense, research, or science/diplomacy. Now granted, we all know this is a mistake on their part, but if you want a better analogy than the ones that are getting thrown around in this thread, it'd be like the U.S. keeping the Star Wars program and continuing to fund it after every other country dismantled their ICBM's (an almost impossible scenario, I know, but this is supposed to be hypothetical). Is it a nice, advanced defense to have around? Sure. Could someone potentially build another ICBM? Probably. But there's no way we can effectively spend towards and anticipate every single threat that comes at us, so we have to pick and choose for the current scenario.

Remember, don't look at this from our informed 3rd-person omniscient perspectives. Look at it from the shoes of Starfleet brass, and what's the best thing to do with the information you currently have.

[SirReginaldo]

Have we ever thought that they actually did... I mean come on, for all we know there is a secret anti borg fleet. Maybe they were just saying that so that they could cover up for some of their more inappropriate actions like producing nano bots of their own to test out weapons on/introducing nano bots into a human/other species body, and perfecting ways to remove them... :( Remember the federation does have a dark side...

[Loekii]

Voyager got stranded 75.000 lightyears away. They were in middel of Borg space in last episode so (I am guessing) 50.000 ly still to go. A distance we consider pretty safe after the collapsed transwarp center. Borg would have to use normal Warp for travelling that distance, so they better start the journey today for arrival in 2410.

One potential flaw in this reasoning, is the assumption that the Borg's only means of getting to the Alpha quadrant is to use 'normal Warp'. It is assuming that Star Fleet knows everything about the Borg and thus can be assured that they could never find another way to arrive at the Alpha Quadrant sooner.

In a world where time travel is not only possible, but where history has shown that other beings like to manipulate the timeline -- ie Sphere Builders -- I would say that the road of caution would be the better travel. Also, the Borg have demonstrated to not only be Adaptive, but rather versatile. Add to this, that an ex-Borg is adimately stating that the threat still exists, and I can see the folly of Star Fleet's decision.

A real life parallel would be the view about post WWI defeated Germany. People were convinced that Germany was no longer a threat to the world, and as history demonstrated, that was proven wrong in just two decades more or less.

There clearly is a case to be made that Star Fleet has made the wrong decision - completely independent of our knowledge that they do indeed come back.

Not intended to be insulting by any means, but I think it is ironic that we see a parallel division among the Forum posters -- which lends credence to Star Fleet reaching the same decision.

[Sckullzy]

Im afraid I can not agree with your assumption that the Borg are stranded Zombie. For all intents and purposes the Borg have treanswarp capability and if I do recall corectly in Voyager they still have one more of those wormhole cluster nexus thingies. Or is it 2? Even without a queen the borg would undoubtedly have backups in case unimatrix 01 went down. Im afraid with all the data that the federation got from Voyager it would seem to be a tragic tactical error of the federation to dissasemble the taskforce in light of the knowledge they have gained from seven and the rest of her crew.

Im not saying that this is a bad choice by the developers and that it shouldnt of happened, In fact it seems to follow along with the direction starfleet is going, making rash and not intelligent decisions because they are blinded by the aftermath of the dominion war and the unstable situation with the romulans not to mention the ongoing tention with the klingons and khitomer. I must applaud the developers on their story line it seems to be true to form and quite logical.

See these are story oriented logical points I can appreciate the value in. I would say it’s not my assumption but Starfleet brass prioritizing active threats verses what by their information would seem like a historical threat. In reality an organization the size of Starfleet and without the hindrance of even a budget to worry about probably wouldn’t need to dismantle a taskforce like this but they may not want their best people spending time and effort there when there are more pressing matters.
Again it’s not the move I would make but it does seem like it’s being done on good faith with the best information they have available at the time.

We have the hindsight and Meta-view of knowing the Borg will be in the game but the Developers could have just as easily said “eh, we don’t like the Borg, they’re not making it in to the game, we’re just going to leave the story of Endgame in place” and then 7of9 rightfully looks like an alarmist nut with a personal obsession that’s clouding her view. If the trailer showed the sphere builders or a massive invasion by Species 8472 then we would all be saying “how dumb is Starfleet for not knowing they were coming back? “7 years, 24 years, 75 years are just numbers on a screen to us but if you actually put yourself in the shoes of an admiral who just looked at a report that says: 11 years 4 months, 1 week, 3 days and still no sighting but tomorrow could be the big day, I feel it! You would probably have a very hard time not feeling like your people are actually on vacation and you look like the idiot in charge of boogie man patrol.

[Loekii]

See these are story oriented logical points I can appreciate the value in. I would say it’s not my assumption but Starfleet brass prioritizing active threats verses what by their information would seem like a historical threat. In reality an organization the size of Starfleet and without the hindrance of even a budget to worry about probably wouldn’t need to dismantle a taskforce like this but they may not want their best people spending time and effort there when there are more pressing matters.
Again it’s not the move I would make but it does seem like it’s being done on good faith with the best information they have available at the time.

We have the hindsight and Meta-view of knowing the Borg will be in the game but the Developers could have just as easily said “eh, we don’t like the Borg, they’re not making it in to the game, we’re just going to leave the story of Endgame in place” and then 7of9 rightfully looks like an alarmist nut with a personal obsession that’s clouding her view. If the trailer showed the sphere builders or a massive invasion by Species 8472 then we would all be saying “how dumb is Starfleet for not knowing they were coming back? “7 years, 24 years, 75 years are just numbers on a screen to us but if you actually put yourself in the shoes of an admiral who just looked at a report that says: 11 years 4 months, 1 week, 3 days and still no sighting but tomorrow could be the big day, I feel it! You would probably have a very hard time not feeling like your people are actually on vacation and you look like the idiot in charge of boogie man patrol.

Again, I disagree with your stance that the Borg Threat is a 'tinfoil' theory at this point in the timeline.

The Borg was an apocalyptic threat -- as they could destroy the Federation, rather than just pose a war threat like the Romulans or the Klingons. They are a much bigger threat -- ie The threat of a Soviet Nuclear attack during the cold war, compared to the threats of Terrorism.

I can understand how Star Fleet may consider the threat reduced, but they certainly do not consider the threat completely gone -- and consider those that feel the threat is still a priority, as 'tinfoil hat' theories. It is not as if we are talking about decades later, but rather only a few years -- without he proper recon and intell.

Basically, I see Star Fleets decision to simply be another mistaken decision by 'military Intelligence', that we often see Governmental/Military Leaders make. I am not saying they are 'idiots', but their Decision is subject to disagreement and rebuttal. The only reason that this has come to pass, is not that they are 'correct', but rather simply that they have the final say, right or wrong.

[Sevenblade]

We have the hindsight and Meta-view of knowing the Borg will be in the game but the Developers could have just as easily said “eh, we don’t like the Borg, they’re not making it in to the game, we’re just going to leave the story of Endgame in place” and then 7of9 rightfully looks like an alarmist nut with a personal obsession that’s clouding her view. If the trailer showed the sphere builders or a massive invasion by Species 8472 then we would all be saying “how dumb is Starfleet for not knowing they were coming back? “7 years, 24 years, 75 years are just numbers on a screen to us but if you actually put yourself in the shoes of an admiral who just looked at a report that says: 11 years 4 months, 1 week, 3 days and still no sighting but tomorrow could be the big day, I feel it! You would probably have a very hard time not feeling like your people are actually on vacation and you look like the idiot in charge of boogie man patrol.

I think this an extremely good point that needs to be made. I wonder exactly how many of the people going "Well why would Starfleet forget the Borg as a historical threat?" would actually remember the Borg as a viable threat were we not seeing the storyline geared towards them coming back? I'm willing to bet most of you would see them the way the Admirals do now: distant, damaged, and certainly dangerous, but not an immediate threat.

One potential flaw in this reasoning, is the assumption that the Borg's only means of getting to the Alpha quadrant is to use 'normal Warp'. It is assuming that Star Fleet knows everything about the Borg and thus can be assured that they could never find another way to arrive at the Alpha Quadrant sooner.

In a world where time travel is not only possible, but where history has shown that other beings like to manipulate the timeline -- ie Sphere Builders -- I would say that the road of caution would be the better travel. Also, the Borg have demonstrated to not only be Adaptive, but rather versatile. Add to this, that an ex-Borg is adimately stating that the threat still exists, and I can see the folly of Star Fleet's decision.

Okay, I'll give you that one. But then why don't we have a specific anti-Sphere Builder task force? For a species that can see multiple timelines and use their technology to influence the factions in it, why aren't we focusing on them? Why don't we have a Voth task force, a species that might actually (dare I say it) more technologically advanced than the Borg? Why don't we have a task force against Arik Soong's Augments potentially finding a rift in time and being placed into the 25th century?
You see what I'm getting at here? Yeah, there's always the possibility these dangerous scenarios might occur, but unless we have some hard data that indicates they might, how are you supposed to safeguard every single one? We might not have a shortage of resources due to replicators anymore, but there's always going to be a limit to our production capacities. A lack of a shortage doesn't mean Starfleet has unlimited resources.

A real life parallel would be the view about post WWI defeated Germany. People were convinced that Germany was no longer a threat to the world, and as history demonstrated, that was proven wrong in just two decades more or less.

There clearly is a case to be made that Star Fleet has made the wrong decision - completely independent of our knowledge that they do indeed come back.

Think of it this way. If Mexico showed up at the border with a full, modern army (Klingons) and started annexing the Southwest U.S., do you think we should be worrying about maintaining an anti-Russia taskforce just because they might go communist and start attacking us again someday (Borg)?

[Not intended to be insulting by any means, but I think it is ironic that we see a parallel division among the Forum posters -- which lends credence to Star Fleet reaching the same decision.

None taken, though that's because you're not really reading what we said. No one's condoning or defending Starfleet's decision to do so. Read Zombie's or my own posts. Multiple times (sometimes in the same post!) we state that since we already know the Borg are coming back, clearly it's a braindead move on Starfleet's part. However, the Starfleet Admirals don't have this knowledge, so we're trying to show you their motivation for disbanding the task force, as many posters in this thread keep stating it doesn't make sense.


So in summary:

Disbanding the task force - Obviously a bad idea, but we know that because of our 3rd person perspective. However, it makes more sense than you think - if you look at it from an in-universe viewpoint.

[Horizon113]

Sevenblade I find your reasoning on this to be both informative and insightful and I agree with a lot of what you said. I even agree partially with Zombies view of the federations stand point on the borg task force and I was not intending to contradict what was said. :D

I was trying to point to a reasoning to why the federation would dismantle the taskforce and send the ships away to other assignments. It seems from my perspective that the federation has been distracted by closer to home conflicts such as the romulans and klingons and the potential for conflict their. When I think of this I can picture some federation politician sitting at his desk hugging himself and giggling because he disbaded the useless "borg taskforce" and assingeg it to more "important duties". Its seems as though politicians are making the big decisions instead of the brass at starfleet. Or that parts of the brass at starfleet are those politicains hugging themselves.

When I look at the last 2 movies with the Baku and the Romulans it shows that the federation is breaking rules or taking gambles and hoping they will pay off. Breaking rules in the Baku relocation attempt and gambleing on the chance that a single change in romulan power would mean long lasting peace for the federation. Skullzy brought out part of my reasoning when he said "I would say it’s not my assumption but Starfleet brass prioritizing active threats verses what by their information would seem like a historical threat"

To me it looks as though starfleet is making a new "Historical" error.

But thats just my point of view. If their are any questions let me know send me a message or just post im checking this "Path to 2409" forum until the new one comes out. I would especially like to here more from Sevenblade, Loekii, Zombie, and Skullzy for their perspective views.

[Horizon113]

None taken, though that's because you're not really reading what we said. No one's condoning or defending Starfleet's decision to do so. Read Zombie's or my own posts. Multiple times (sometimes in the same post!) we state that since we already know the Borg are coming back, clearly it's a braindead move on Starfleet's part. However, the Starfleet Admirals don't have this knowledge, so we're trying to show you their motivation for disbanding the task force, as many posters in this thread keep stating it doesn't make sense.

So in summary:

Disbanding the task force - Obviously a bad idea, but we know that because of our 3rd person perspective. However, it makes more sense than you think - if you look at it from an in-universe viewpoint.

I agree with your thoughts exactly, my points are just to try and show a reason why the federation is acting this way and how it is a mistake I know I have more information then they do my post is for people who see this "path to 2409" segment and go "????? whats all that supposed to mean thats dumb? and to help them imagine what the characters are hopefully thinking I may be wrong and In some points I probably am but its just their to give a distinct "in his shos" point of view for people to better understand.

[Loekii]

Seven,

You keep hedging far too much on 'our knowledge of the future'. Just because I know the out come of a battle, does not mean that I cannot consider a decision to be a bad one with out that future knowledge. Leaders make bad decisions all the time, and critics can see the mistake without the knowledge of the outcome. Some bad decisions result in a lucky outcome, but that doesn't mean it was a good decision at the time.

From a tactical standpoint, there is a credible argument that disbanding the Task Force is a bad idea, or at the very least, premature. At that point of time, there is credible evidence -- without need of our 'future knowledge'.

What I was saying is ironic, is that this forum is divided simply in the view point of whether or not it was a bad decision -- which reflects the StarFleet Decision vs. Anika's position.

[Horizon113]

From a tactical standpoint, there is a credible argument that disbanding the Task Force is a bad idea, or at the very least, premature. At that point of time, there is credible evidence -- without need of our 'future knowledge'.

What I was saying is ironic, is that this forum is divided simply in the view point of whether or not it was a bad decision -- which reflects the StarFleet Decision vs. Anika's position.

Heh heh I got to brush up on my Voyager, I do agree with you as well Loekii their is points that the disbanding of the fleet is a tactical error however their are also points that not using the taskforce in other duties would be a more tragic error.

What I keep reminding myself is that the borg are not the only ones out there the Romulans and Klingons are at the front door and even with the knowledge of the borgs capability their is reason to belive that they wont be back for a while say another 20 or so years (or ever by the timelines standpoint).

Though I belive that the disbanding of the taskforce is a error and was stupid. Another viewpoint is deal with the enemy if front of you deal with the hear and now, though ultimatly shortsighted it is hard to see the enemy in the distance when their are a pair of people who will shoot you standing right in fron of you blocking your view.

[Sevenblade]

Sevenblade I find your reasoning on this to be both informative and insightful and I agree with a lot of what you said. I even agree partially with Zombies view of the federations stand point on the borg task force and I was not intending to contradict what was said. :D

I was trying to point to a reasoning to why the federation would dismantle the taskforce and send the ships away to other assignments. It seems from my perspective that the federation has been distracted by closer to home conflicts such as the romulans and klingons and the potential for conflict their. When I think of this I can picture some federation politician sitting at his desk hugging himself and giggling because he disbaded the useless "borg taskforce" and assingeg it to more "important duties". Its seems as though politicians are making the big decisions instead of the brass at starfleet. Or that parts of the brass at starfleet are those politicains hugging themselves.

When I look at the last 2 movies with the Baku and the Romulans it shows that the federation is breaking rules or taking gambles and hoping they will pay off. Breaking rules in the Baku relocation attempt and gambleing on the chance that a single change in romulan power would mean long lasting peace for the federation. Skullzy brought out part of my reasoning when he said "I would say it’s not my assumption but Starfleet brass prioritizing active threats verses what by their information would seem like a historical threat"

To me it looks as though starfleet is making a new "Historical" error.

But thats just my point of view. If their are any questions let me know send me a message or just post im checking this "Path to 2409" forum until the new one comes out. I would especially like to here more from Sevenblade, Loekii, Zombie, and Skullzy for their perspective views.

Thank you, and I think you also make a good point. The dissolving of the task force does sound like a very short-sighted political maneuver, rather than one by informed Starfleet commanders. We've seen too many instances of wrong-headed political meddling that has cost us wars in the past (i.e., Vietnam, to some extent Korea, Iraq). To think that it couldn't happen to Starfleet is somewhat naive. Though in some of the latest shows and movies we've seen how corrupt or just thick-headed/stubborn some admirals can get (especially the one in Insurrection). Perhaps this is why Picard never wanted the job, so he wouldn't become detached from the reality of the situation.

And I also agree on turning their attention to more local matters. After all, the quadrants are already in a pretty good amount of turmoil without any full blown wars or Borg invasions. The Romulans are already on the brink of civil war by themselves, and the Klingons grow ever more aggressive to the point that we're almost at war again by 2409. It makes sense for a full military power like that right on our borders to take up more of our attention than a enemy who may or may not be able to attack us again anytime within the next decade or so.

Seven,

You keep hedging far too much on 'our knowledge of the future'. Just because I know the out come of a battle, does not mean that I cannot consider a decision to be a bad one with out that future knowledge. Leaders make bad decisions all the time, and critics can see the mistake without the knowledge of the outcome. Some bad decisions result in a lucky outcome, but that doesn't mean it was a good decision at the time.

From a tactical standpoint, there is a credible argument that disbanding the Task Force is a bad idea, or at the very least, premature. At that point of time, there is credible evidence -- without need of our 'future knowledge'.

What I was saying is ironic, is that this forum is divided simply in the view point of whether or not it was a bad decision -- which reflects the StarFleet Decision vs. Anika's position.

Granted, you can definitely make an evaluation that disbanding the taskforce is a bad idea without having a crystal ball. Clearly, Seven of Nine and a few other disgruntled individuals have already done so. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that we seem to think it's such an obvious decision because we've seen the Borg return in the trailer already. Since we've seen that, a lot of people are confusing what we know with what they know. For all they know, the Borg could have been crippled way more than we think and split into subfactions that got picked off by the Kazon or something (exaggeration to make a point). Yes, it's better to be safe than sorry with the Borg, but how can you keep people on a war footing for 7 years now and no enemy or even a hint to speak of?

There's credible evidence either way, but at the time, the lack of any Borg activity or even a hint of it weighs more in the Admrial's minds in favor of disbanding the task force, simply because it is too cost-efficient to gear defense towards a specific, absent enemy. They made an evaluation of what's at hand, and they risked saving resources that might help them in current, local struggles than devote them to a "What if?" scenario that might never play out.

And I really don't think the forum's really divided at all. Pretty much everyone I've seen thinks disbanding the task force was a stupid idea. We're just arguing over whether it makes sense in context of Star Trek history.

[Horizon113]

Well we know the borg are back what I am looking forward to is the technological upgrades that Anika and the Institute managed to make in order to fight the borg. From what I saw in the trailer it looks like the federation (dispite the dispanding of the borg taskforce) was able to start fighting with the borg on more even footing.

I am also wondering what Icheb's roll will be in the future it was mentioned that he joined starfleet and that Anika supported his decision but I wonder if he will be making any contributions to the federation or if he is just a side line to show Anika's evolving humanity and empathy.

And finally I noticed that it seems like people are assuming starfleet is completly inactive with regards to the borg, at least that is what Anika appears to be expressing. I would guess that even though the taskforce is disbanded I doubt the federation would ignore the Daystrom Institutes technological advancements after all Quantom torpedoes were originally designed for use against the borg but they were used by bothe the defiant and the enterprise anainst the Dominion and the Romulans.

I will enjoy seeing starfleet open a can of whoop butt on the Borg......and anyone else who chooses to begin an active conflist wheather they be Romulan,Breen,Tribbles,or Klingons

[nagash303]

We have a Picture for you to get you a view of the "threat" map of galaxy (http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/nagashutori/StarTrek/startrekmapofgalaxy.jpg)

You see the federaton is surounded by potential enemies, and the bajoran wormhole not making it better :rolleyes: Infact Borg and Dominion are a good 70m ly apart too. Indeed the Klingons will be our biggest threat, asuming Cardassians dont have enough to eat. The one that has nothing to eat cannot fight back = no threat :D Who would be the bigger threat? Federation or Kliongons, hmmm ... the one side "peace loving, but nerve wrecking" the other side "die for honor in battle" ... Its not up to a low rank Captain like me to decide where the Empire will go to :p

[Horizon113]

We have a Picture for you to get you a view of the "threat" map of galaxy (http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/nagashutori/StarTrek/startrekmapofgalaxy.jpg)

You see the federaton is surounded by potential enemies, and the bajoran wormhole not making it better :rolleyes: Infact Borg and Dominion are a good 70m ly apart too. Indeed the Klingons will be our biggest threat, asuming Cardassians dont have enough to eat. The one that has nothing to eat cannot fight back = no threat :D Who would be the bigger threat? Federation or Kliongons, hmmm ... the one side "peace loving, but nerve wrecking" the other side "die for honor in battle" ... Its not up to a low rank Captain like me to decide where the Empire will go to :p

Im afraid I could not judge the threat based on a map that may not even be completely accurate with the game, Im sure the distribution of territory will be similar but I doubt they are gonna use this exact map in order to show how the galaxy is devided up territory wise. It is also not a indication of the threat of a nation I mean look at canada one of the largest size wise, even bigger then china yet we arnt much of a threat to anyone.

No i am afraid we will have to wait and see what cryptic gives us in the way of a galactic map and backstory in order to really judge the threat posed by these races.

[Loekii]

Just to clarify, I am not saying it is 'obvious', but rather saying I view it as a tactical error -- which is why I thought it ironic to see similar divisions on the forum.

As far as 'greatest threat', again, I think that is subject to debate. Currently, the Klingon, Romulans, etc, while posing a threat, are not an 'appocolypic' threat. The Borg, if they were to show up, would immediately superceed the threat possed by the Romulans and/or Klingons. The Federation could hold out in a protracted war against the ladder, but not the former.

Its about multi-tasking and proper threat assessment. What I see in Star Fleets decision, is a gamble on very little intell, on something that if they guess 'wrong', has very costly results. Again, given the nature of Star Trek, I am surprised to see Star Fleet come to the conclusion that the Borg's only way to the Alpha Quadrant has been perminately sealed, and that the soonest they could ever arrive would be in Decades. Star Fleet has encountered numerous instances where their own ships have traveled incredible distances. Why would they assume that the Borg would never be able to find something like that.

It would be one thing, if the Feds were in a stalemate or losing war, but they are not. They are basically at a time of peace, with with their potential enemies occupied with their own problems. At this point, the Romulans are not really in a position to launch a successful war against the Federation, and the relations with the Klingons seems calm as well.

So considering they don't have any 'current' enemies, so to speak, proclaiming that the biggest threat with the least amount of intell to be 'neutralized' is pretty premature in my opinion. They have no idea what the Borg are doing, how 'crippled' they truly are, etc. For all Star Fleet knows, the Borg could on the virge of discovering a fast track link to the Alpha Quadrant again.

[ambessalion]

interesting story

[Sevenblade]

Just to clarify, I am not saying it is 'obvious', but rather saying I view it as a tactical error -- which is why I thought it ironic to see similar divisions on the forum.

As far as 'greatest threat', again, I think that is subject to debate. Currently, the Klingon, Romulans, etc, while posing a threat, are not an 'appocolypic' threat. The Borg, if they were to show up, would immediately superceed the threat possed by the Romulans and/or Klingons. The Federation could hold out in a protracted war against the ladder, but not the former.

Its about multi-tasking and proper threat assessment. What I see in Star Fleets decision, is a gamble on very little intell, on something that if they guess 'wrong', has very costly results. Again, given the nature of Star Trek, I am surprised to see Star Fleet come to the conclusion that the Borg's only way to the Alpha Quadrant has been perminately sealed, and that the soonest they could ever arrive would be in Decades. Star Fleet has encountered numerous instances where their own ships have traveled incredible distances. Why would they assume that the Borg would never be able to find something like that.

It would be one thing, if the Feds were in a stalemate or losing war, but they are not. They are basically at a time of peace, with with their potential enemies occupied with their own problems. At this point, the Romulans are not really in a position to launch a successful war against the Federation, and the relations with the Klingons seems calm as well.

So considering they don't have any 'current' enemies, so to speak, proclaiming that the biggest threat with the least amount of intell to be 'neutralized' is pretty premature in my opinion. They have no idea what the Borg are doing, how 'crippled' they truly are, etc. For all Star Fleet knows, the Borg could on the virge of discovering a fast track link to the Alpha Quadrant again.


Really? I haven't seen anyone else who didn't think it was a tactical error...Wow, apparently some here are as short-sighted as the Starfleet brass.:rolleyes: /shrug


Though the way you're evaluating threats is a little skewed. Yes, the Borg's military might will continue to be a 'bigger' or 'more dangerous' threat than probably the Klingons and Romulans combined. However, pure military might is not nearly the only factor to consider in the threat factor of a faction. Proximity and ability to move against you also factors in, factors that both the rapidly destablizing Romulan and Klingon Empires have in much higher degree than the Borg.
Contrary to your assessment of relations being calm with them, the Romulans were just on the brink of civil war that could have spilled over Federation borders, but now with their recent reunification, they might choose to stop stabbing each other's backs and return to focusing on their historical enemy. As for the Klingons, things are anything but calm with increasingly frosty relations (ambassadors being withdrawn, condemnation of the respective government's actions, and the expulsion of non-Klingon persons from Khitomer). With the Klingons acting aggressive to the Gorn as well, a prudent Starfleet admiral would be focusing on putting ships near the Federation-Klingon border before anything else, in case they feel the Empire needs to expand once more in 'glorious battle'.

Yes, Starfleet should definitely be multi-tasking, and should never not plan to defend against the Borg, but then again I doubt that they aren't. They were simply too destructive and adaptable to not have some sort of contingency plan. Sure, the Borg could find some unconventional method of finding their way back to the Alpha Quadrant, but history shows that galaxy-traveling distortions are relatively few and far between. If they weren't, the Gamma Quadrant wormhole wouldn't be nearly as economically and strategically valuable as it is (also because it's stable, something most galaxy-traveling anomalies tend not to be, which therefore doesn't make them reliable military assets for the Borg). Therefore, Starfleet will focus on their hostile next-door neighbors, rather than a threat with a much statistically lower chance of attacking us.

Besides, when we really get down to it, how much more effective the would the anti-Borg task force actually have done against the adaptable Borg than the general defense ships? All we've really got so far are the transphasic torpedoes, which aren't even being deployed almost at all, and I'm sure any ship is capable of launching them with a few modifications. Not to mention that I'm sure that no matter how long it takes or how many ships/drones it costs, the Borg will eventually find a way to adapt. Unless we leapfrog another 30 years of Starfleet technological advancement again with another blatant violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, there's really nothing an Anti-Borg task force has going for it more than the rest of the fleet. Overall, it's just not cost-efficient.


Just to make sure, I want to state again that I'm not defending Starfleet's decision, because as though I can definitely understand the reasoning behind their decision (as I'm trying to state it in express detail in this thread), I don't agree with it. I simply want to provide a rebuttal to all those who don't believe the decision makes sense in terms of realistic Star Trek history.

[Horizon113]

I think im with Sevenblade on this one the problems on the front lawn are more urgent then the problems across the street down the road and through the park. Im not saying the borg arnt still a threat they are. But honestly a full out war with the klingons or the romulans (or both) could be disastourous and fatal. Honestly the klingons and the romulans could start a war that could destroy the federation or do so much damage to it that they dont have the ability to keep their multi race nation together.

Think of it like a nuclear war. The russians (borg) have enough nukes to kill everything on the earth ten times over. While China (Romulans) only have enough nukes to kill everything once. Either way we are still at risk of destruction.

One thing though that I havnt noticed anyone point out is that borg ships or at least a few of them already have transwarp drive meaning they can get here a lot faster then people seem to think and that means it will still be a long journey but as has been pointed out the borg are patient.

I agree with sevenblade's thought on the taskforce and how it might not do a whole lot of good either way.
I think the removal of it is a mistake but I can certenly see the reasoning (or some reasoning) behind it.

[ronaldheld]

If the Borg send a few cubes, they could be defeated. if they send multithousands at once, nothing short of the Caelier or Q would help.

[Sevenblade]

If the Borg send a few cubes, they could be defeated. if they send multithousands at once, nothing short of the Caelier or Q would help.

Eh...we saw what happens with even just one cube (Wolf 359, Sector 001). With the transphasic torpedoes, we might be able to fend off a few if we detonate the transphasics simulataneously. Though if 10 or more cubes came through, we'd need nothing short of all of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers banding together for a common defense to even think about repelling them.

[Loekii]

I disagree with Seven's lawn assessment. The Klingons and Romulans are a threat, but nearly on the same level as the Borg.

It is more like:

Klingons/Romulans = Termites
Borg = Tornado


Yes, you should deal with the termites, because if you completely ignore them, they will eventually destroy the house.

However, a tornado will destroy the house in minutes. Just because you have not seen a tornado in 7 months and the weather man is prediction none for the next year, doesn't mean that one will never occur again, and that you should stop your tornado insurance as well as construction on the safe room in the basement.

One threat is something that can be handled slowly and over the long term, the other needs to make sure that you are always prepared simply because the cost for not being prepared if far greater than taking a little longer with the termite problem.

From a tactical perspective, it is like exposing your flank to the fortified ridge, because you are 'pretty sure' the enemy cannot get up there.

[Sevenblade]

I disagree with Seven's lawn assessment. The Klingons and Romulans are a threat, but nearly on the same level as the Borg.

It is more like:

Klingons/Romulans = Termites
Borg = Tornado


Yes, you should deal with the termites, because if you completely ignore them, they will eventually destroy the house.

However, a tornado will destroy the house in minutes. Just because you have not seen a tornado in 7 months and the weather man is prediction none for the next year, doesn't mean that one will never occur again, and that you should stop your tornado insurance as well as construction on the safe room in the basement.

One threat is something that can be handled slowly and over the long term, the other needs to make sure that you are always prepared simply because the cost for not being prepared if far greater than taking a little longer with the termite problem.

From a tactical perspective, it is like exposing your flank to the fortified ridge, because you are 'pretty sure' the enemy cannot get up there.

Well, I wasn't the one who used a "lawn" assessment, so make sure you're replying to the right person, but I get the point you're trying to make.

I don't have a problem comparing the Borg to a tornado. We can all agree on them being so powerful as to be almost a catastrophic force of nature. However, I greatly disagree with the analogy of the Klingons and Romulans as termites. To so offhandedly dismiss the two strongest powers in what I'll call the 'North' half of the galaxy for shorthand(Alpha & Beta Quadrants) as insignificant as insects would be extremely irresponsible on Starfleet's part. One on one, either power might be relatively matched with the Federation's might. They are not nearly as weak as insects, nor are they a slowly problem to be monitored. In the timeline that's still progressing, yes, but we've seen that the Federation are already almost at war with the Klingons. If war is formally declared, a fleet of Klingon battleships heading for a Federation planet is not something you could handle slowly at all.

And like I said before, it would indeed be foolish to not defend against the Borg at all. That's not what Starfleet's doing, however. They simply are not dedicating a specific portion of their military to defend against it, as they are not doing to the Klingons or the Romulans, who could attack much sooner and with more frequency. And we have to weigh the actual benefits that might be brought about by keeping an Anti-Borg taskforce. All we have as an advantage are some really strong torpedoes that the Borg may or may adapt to when they use them, and we have no way of knowing if they'll adapt anyways in the 30 years we haven't seen them. Borg weapons rip through Federation shielding, a system we have not upgraded drastically so far. So the task force would be a number of specially designated ships that might have a slight offensive advantage, but would still be destroyed just as easily as a rank-and-file ship. For the small advantages they might have, it's not nearly worth it for the extra cost, paperwork, and bureacracy that would necessarily follow having to maintain a specific task force, which is meant only to last for short period against a specific, present enemy. Task forces are not meant as a general standing defense.

Sometimes one has to take a calculated risk to win. The Federation cannot do anything about the Borg regrouping or finding their way back to the Alpha Quadrant, and to attempt otherwise would be, to paraphrase the enemy themselves, "futile". It draws resources away from a certain, nearby threat that might mean the difference between surviving now and hoping to survive against an apocalyptic enemy later. As risky as it seems, the Federation has no better current option than to gamble and hope that the Borg won't return soon. Because really, we don't have a choice. Even if we were prepared, and the Borg do come, we won't fare all that better.

[Loekii]

The Termite vs. Tornado analogy is indicative of the relative strength, and the time it would take to destroy the 'house'.

Yes the Romulans and Klingons are a threat per se, but at this in the time line the relationship is much less hostile, so I would say the termites are is accurate. The Feds are not at War with the Klingons, nor the Romulans -- who happen to be recovering from their own internal strife. The Feds are likely a bigger threat to the Romulans at this point, simply because of the situation in Romulan space.

If either were to suddenly launch an attack on the Federation, they would not blitzkrieg through Federation space in crippling blow after blow. It would be protracted conflict, with both sides being relatively equal, and thus fighting to a probable stalemate. Infact, at this point, I would say that both are a 'reduced' threat -- basically being 'potential' threats, if they chose to become hostile.

So the 'threat' is much less than that of what would happen if the Borg suddenly arrived at the Federation frontier.

[Horizon113]

I can agree somewhat on your view of the romulans Lokeii but the Klingons if anything they have expanded and gotten stronger miliarily like look at the new design of vessel they put out thats not a science vessel or a treansport its a warship built to fight and keep on fighting.

The Klingons have gotten more dangerous then before becaus a lo of them are itching for a fight for goodness sake chancellor martok had to fight to the death for controll of the goverment and he is like the klingons biggest hero/warrior a icon to the klingon people and even he is having trouble keeping them in line.

Compared to the Borg the Klingons might seem like a small group of insects but unfortunatly they would do a lot more then eat out the foundation of the federations house they would most likely do more damage then even the dominion did if they fought the federation. and for some reason the trailor and the picture up at the very top of this page makes me think we are gonna have a lot more problems then just a borg this looks like its gonna be a epic clash of the galactic titans pitted in a death 4 man no holds bar deathmatch with the 3 big races fighting eachother and the borg also jumping in.

[Loekii]

Where are you getting your information from about the Klingons, their increased military strength and hostility towards the Federation?

From my understanding of the Canon (again, I am not a Trekkie), but it seems that the Klingons are not stronger than the Federation, nor are they becoming aggressive towards the Federation -- which calls into question their 'threat' value. Of the three 'alternate' timelines in Canon, none of them talk about a Klingons invasion of the Federation, and one of them actually has the Klingons joining the Federation in about 200 years.

I could be mistaken, but I would like Canon references, rather than opinions.

[Sckullzy]

Where are you getting your information from about the Klingons, their increased military strength and hostility towards the Federation?

From my understanding of the Canon (again, I am not a Trekkie), but it seems that the Klingons are not stronger than the Federation, nor are they becoming aggressive towards the Federation -- which calls into question their 'threat' value. Of the three 'alternate' timelines in Canon, none of them talk about a Klingons invasion of the Federation, and one of them actually has the Klingons joining the Federation in about 200 years.

I could be mistaken, but I would like Canon references, rather than opinions.

You know the whole game will be Klingons vs. Star fleet right?
Even if you mean no one would know that by this point in the time line the Klingons tipped the war with the dominion with vastly smaller numbers than the the federation had. Klingons make ships without sickbays or brigs because they don't plan to lose and aren't taking prisoners.

And now they're kicking Fed diplomats off Klingon land. Even if the the Fed don't "know" war is coming some members would be preparing for it.

No one in game will ever be saying "My shields are down and I have six Klingon raptors on my 20 but at least it isn't the borg!"


As for them not being stronger they were strong enough to wipe out the Romulan star empire by all good things... and the Romulans aren't the minor pests you're treating them as.



(a bit off topic but I'm so glad to be back to talking actual Trek stuff)

[Loekii]

Zombie,

Earlier in the thread, there were complaints that those that felt the Borg were still a threat were only saying that because of the knowledge the Borg will be a big threat in STO.

That is what is going here with the Klingons --- saying that Star Fleet sees the Klingons as a big threat because of STO.

In 2385 (not 2409), there does not seem to be a reason for the Feds to view the Klingons as an imminent threat, nor that they are far superior to Star Fleet, both in Canon and in the Path stories.

According to Canon, the Klingons and Feds just finished fighting along side each other in their fight against the Dominion. Since then, there has not be any hostilities between the two. If I recall correctly, nothing in the Path articles suggests falling relations between the Feds and Klingons at this point. Romulans are in a state of internal strife, so that would also put out as a 'threat'.

So again, I can see how some factions in Star Fleet have become over confident that the Borg Threat has been neutralized, but I disagree with the comments that the Klingons and Romulans are a current or even growing threat to the Federation, and thus causing a 'need' for resources to be pulled from other sources.

[Sckullzy]

Zombie,

Earlier in the thread, there were complaints that those that felt the Borg were still a threat were only saying that because of the knowledge the Borg will be a big threat in STO.

That is what is going here with the Klingons --- saying that Star Fleet sees the Klingons as a big threat because of STO.

In 2385 (not 2409), there does not seem to be a reason for the Feds to view the Klingons as an imminent threat, nor that they are far superior to Star Fleet, both in Canon and in the Path stories.

According to Canon, the Klingons and Feds just finished fighting along side each other in their fight against the Dominion. Since then, there has not be any hostilities between the two. If I recall correctly, nothing in the Path articles suggests falling relations between the Feds and Klingons at this point. Romulans are in a state of internal strife, so that would also put out as a 'threat'.

So again, I can see how some factions in Star Fleet have become over confident that the Borg Threat has been neutralized, but I disagree with the comments that the Klingons and Romulans are a current or even growing threat to the Federation, and thus causing a 'need' for resources to be pulled from other sources.



I say look at as U.S.A. and Russia at the end of WWII. We were allies when there was an evil that threatened us both but the two governing archetypes were predictably incompatible. The most we could hope for would be a treaty of nonaggression which would necessitate recognized boundaries. The Klingon empire have never said they would join the Federation or abide by their laws so a break down becomes if not inevitable at least predictable to the extent that the Federation would be forming contingency plans.

[Sevenblade]

Zombie,

Earlier in the thread, there were complaints that those that felt the Borg were still a threat were only saying that because of the knowledge the Borg will be a big threat in STO.

That is what is going here with the Klingons --- saying that Star Fleet sees the Klingons as a big threat because of STO.

In 2385 (not 2409), there does not seem to be a reason for the Feds to view the Klingons as an imminent threat, nor that they are far superior to Star Fleet, both in Canon and in the Path stories.

According to Canon, the Klingons and Feds just finished fighting along side each other in their fight against the Dominion. Since then, there has not be any hostilities between the two. If I recall correctly, nothing in the Path articles suggests falling relations between the Feds and Klingons at this point. Romulans are in a state of internal strife, so that would also put out as a 'threat'.

So again, I can see how some factions in Star Fleet have become over confident that the Borg Threat has been neutralized, but I disagree with the comments that the Klingons and Romulans are a current or even growing threat to the Federation, and thus causing a 'need' for resources to be pulled from other sources.



No offense, Loekii, but have you even been reading the Path to 2409 updates?

No hostilities between the Federation and Klingons at all?

From 2382 (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2382):

The unstable situation of the Romulans continues to be a source of concern for the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

The Klingon Empire takes advantage of the weak position of the Romulans to stage lightning strikes into Romulan space, retaking Khitomer and the sector surrounding it. The Federation Council criticizes the move, but Ambassador K’mtok responds that the empire is simply reclaiming territory that belonged to the Klingons by right.

Three updates in, or 4 years after Nemesis, we've already got increased Klingon aggression that the Federation criticizes and the Klingons obviously don't appreciate that. Also, without the Romulans even unified, the Federation are scared that even a civil war would spill over and destabilize the quadrants.

From 2383 (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2383):

The Klingon Empire and the United Federation of Planets are at odds over the Klingon takeover of Khitomer. In a narrow vote, the Federation Council decides not to formally censure the empire for its military action. However, the fact that the matter went to the full Council for a vote is enough of an affront for Qo’noS to temporarily recall its ambassador to the Federation.

Hardliners on the Klingon High Council demand that Martok eject Federation ambassadors from Klingon space. Martok refuses to do so, and then defeats Councilor Qolka in a duel of honor after he accuses Martok of being a “pet desperate for the approval of his Starfleet masters.”

Martok remains fairly loyal to the Federation, but he's clearly losing support as most Klingons are not happy with the Federation's attitude towards the expansionist stance the Empire is taking. Recalling ambassadors is never a good sign for diplomacy, especially with a warlike society as the Klingons.

From 2384 (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2384):

Federation analysts say that a shakeup in the Romulan power structure has left the empire vulnerable to attack from within and without. Starfleet is dispatching additional ships to the border of the Neutral Zone and considers the Romulan situation one of the main threats to Federation safety and security.

But the upheaval in Romulan space is not the only potential war that Starfleet is monitoring. On Stardate 61829.83, the IKS Quv is attacked by a Gorn ship and 207 Klingons die in the battle. Representatives of King Xrathis of the Gorn claim that the commander of their warship was acting without orders, but refuse to surrender the surviving crew of the Quv to the Klingon Empire. In response, Chancellor Martok expels the Gorn’s diplomats from the empire and orders ships to the Klingons’ border with the Gorn Hegemony.

Even if the Klingons and Romulans aren't directing aggression towards the Federation themselves, the Federation sees either faction engaging in any wars as potential threats to the security of the Federation and the quadrants as a whole.

From 2385 (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2385):

Klingon section in Orange

The Enterprise’s final mission before returning to Earth for reassignment is to assist the population of Khitomer. On Stardate 62230.13, the Klingon Empire announces it is expelling all non-Klingon residents of the planet as a “safety measure.” It gives the residents 14 standard days to leave the planet, but Chancellor Martok agrees to extend the deadline after speaking to Captain Jean-Luc Picard. The Enterprise-E leads a contingent of ships to Khitomer, assists in the evacuation, and the former residents are safely settled on Federation colonies.

And Worf, son of Mogh, also resigns his commission to Starfleet. Worf believes that with the recent strains in relations between the Federation and the Klingons, he will best be of service in a diplomatic role. He returns to Qo’noS to take up the post of lead ambassador, and a few months later begins a tentative relationship with Grilka, the leader of a Klingon noble house whom he had met while serving on Deep Space 9.

Romulan section in Green

Federation experts fear a three-way struggle for control of Romulus, but instead Donatra meets with Sela and Rehaek on Romulus to find a peaceful solution. The three begrudgingly agree to put their personal disputes aside for the good of the Empire, and the worlds of the Imperial Romulan State are folded back into the Romulan Star Empire. Donatra holds onto the reins of power of the military, and keeps much of her forces safely off-world in case the peace does not hold.

The physical strength of the Remans, as well as their supplies of dilithium and heavy metals, adds to Donatra’s formidable military strength, and she re-opens shipyards and munitions plants closed since Shinzon’s revolt. And as resources flow back to Romulus from Remus and the worlds Donatra controlled, energy rationing and food lines become a thing of the past.

If expelling other citizens isn't a hostile or at least diplomatically tense/cold reaction to the Federation's wagging of fingers, I don't know what is. The Klingon in Starfleet can see that pretty well, and is willing to give up his comission to try and patch up relations. A good Starfleet admiral would be looking at all of these increasingly drastic signs and at least expect tense border scenarios, if not skirmishes or a full out war. You don't need to see a trailer or know that STO is going to be about Klingons vs. Starfleet to know that.

As for the Romulans, yes, for now, they have stabilized. Yet is this entirely a good thing? While a civil war is never good for stability of the interstellar neighborhood, the Romulan philosophy is almost defined by their opposition to the Federation. Animosity like that doesn't disappear overnight. Donatra seems to have gained the most tangible power from the struggle, and while she may have been an ally at Bassen Rift, we have no guarantee she will remain that way, especially now that the common enemy of Shinzon is 6 years dead. With the addition of the Reman resources and holding the agricultural and military strength of the Romulan Empire, she could probably draw the Romulans into a war with the Federation if she wanted to, and with more favorable results than usual.



So if I can dredge up this amount of evidence that it's actually taking me two posts to make my point, I really don't get where you seem to think the Klingons and/or Romulans aren't acting hostile or as potential threats to the Federation. You got Zombie wrong; he did mention STO being about Klingons vs. Starfleet, but to make a point that the Klingon threat is pretty obvious. And more importantly, he did say this:

And now they're kicking Fed diplomats off Klingon land. Even if the the Fed don't "know" war is coming some members would be preparing for it.


So there's all the evidence for the Klingons and Romulans being much closer, tangible threats than the Borg, who are mentioned once in the Path timeline, right here in 2381 (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2381):

Following increased activity by the Borg in the Alpha Quadrant including the possible recreation of a Borg Queen, Starfleet appoints Captain Jean-Luc Picard to lead the defense against the renewed threat. He calls on Seven of Nine to research ways to use technology brought back from the Delta Quadrant by Voyager to either directly combat the Borg or to give the Federation an advantage in the coming battle.

If you've read any of the TNG relaunch books, this is clearly a reference to Cryptic adopting the storyline of the Pocket Novels Resistance (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance_%28novel%29) and Before Dishonor (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor) (more importantly the latter) in which [Spoilers in black; highlight to see] the Borg are regrouping with a few ships in the Alpha Quadrant, but disabled by Picard and Seven of Nine, but when Admiral Janeway investigates the dormant cube, she is captured and turned into a new Borg queen [Spoilers end here]. This is the only very limited interaction the Federation has had with the Borg, and this group was cut off from the rest of the Collective. As far as the Starfleet brass is concerned, the rest of the Borg are still stuck in the Delta Quadrant. They have no evidence whatsoever to indicate an attack, while the Klingons and Romulans (especially the Klingons) give cause to fear destabilizing conflict in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants in the near future.

*Continued in next post

[Sevenblade]

*Continued from previous post

Going back to the actual threat the Klingons and Romulans pose, you seriously underestimate their military power. More importantly, any good Klingon/Romulan commander would use their biggest advantage: surprise. Klingons and Romulans both have cloaking, something the Federation does not, and while they can detect cloaked ships with some accuracy, it's not an active pursuit. The Federation doesn't have a full sensor net devoted to doing so, and most ships do not randomly actively search for cloaked ships, especially since it usually requires multiple coordinated ships in a concentrated area to do so.
An experienced commander from either faction would build up a fleet, cloak it, and slip through Federation borders before even declaring war formally, opening the fight just by decloaking and opening fire on the outlying worlds. Already, the Federation would be suffering quite a few defeats, and it'd take them a while to mobilize and fight back, especially since they have indicated they are gearing back towards science and discovery, not military pursuits.

Starfleet Command announces it has completed its re-evaluation of all of its post-Dominion War assets and resources and that it will be refocusing some ships that have been assigned to defense and diplomacy to exploration and scientific discovery.

This only further explains the decision to disband the task force. Starfleet is not intended to be a military organization, though they fill that role when the times demand it. With no current evidence of a Borg threat, keeping a Borg task force around drains resources, if not from defending against local threats, than even just from their goal of exploration and science by defending against a so-far absent threat.

[Horizon113]

Loekii I am using knowledge from the game to make my assumptions and statements. One thing I am not doin is goin to a canon and looking 200 years into the future and basing that knowledge on what is goin to happen. If their is one thing I know its that canons can change and even if they dont a lot can happen in 200 years. Also another reason I am not using "possible future events" is because the federation cant see into the future and so neither can I. My perspective are from a "in their shoes mentallity" not a 3rd person observer perspective.

Another thing I do use use the knowledge that cryptic has given be in the "path to 2409" segments they have posted if you click on them they go into more detail and show you the rising tentions between the federations and its border races.

And one last thing the "Lawn" statement I made is exactly the same as your "tornado/termite" example except its put in a more explainable context that actually fits with the federations view.:mad:

[Horizon113]

Oh and thank you Sevenblade for showing the reletive "path to 2409" segments and putting them in proper context. Its nice to know people are using the actual game back story to help interpret what is likely to happen in the game.;)

[Loekii]

Seven, thanks for the update.

I can see how that could be the case. To me, I see it more parallel to real life politics, where allies oppose the actions of other countries, but it never is a prelude to conflict. US and French relations for example, or even relations with Israel.

So I do not see the situations described in the 'Path' stories creating such an urgency that the task force dissolution is an obvious step.

Again, I maintain that it could be argued reasonably either way --- again the Irony of the parallel of Starfleet vs. Anika, and our division on the forums.

[Horizon113]

Seven, thanks for the update.

I can see how that could be the case. To me, I see it more parallel to real life politics, where allies oppose the actions of other countries, but it never is a prelude to conflict. US and French relations for example, or even relations with Israel.

So I do not see the situations described in the 'Path' stories creating such an urgency that the task force dissolution is an obvious step.

Again, I maintain that it could be argued reasonably either way --- again the Irony of the parallel of Starfleet vs. Anika, and our division on the forums.




I think no matter what this game is gonna be great and its nice to see people who really appreciate star trek and are not afraid or expressing themselves. I apologize for overreacting and I hope this game really meets up to all our expectations. Hey who knows when the game comes out me, you, sevenblade, and zombie could be killing borg together.:cool:

[doam]

Incase anyone missed it (no idea if it's been posted here or not) here's alivet (she wrote the log and possibly future stuff as well?): http://www.champions-online.com/node/15272

[Loekii]

I think no matter what this game is gonna be great and its nice to see people who really appreciate star trek and are not afraid or expressing themselves. I apologize for overreacting and I hope this game really meets up to all our expectations. Hey who knows when the game comes out me, you, sevenblade, and zombie could be killing borg together.:cool:

I agree. No worries from me as I did not think any responses were out of line.

I think the diversity of opinions is a good sign with the fiction -- meaning the fiction might actually be written 'Grey', rather than Black/White -- which means it is open to various interpretations, and hopefully means there will a few different 'paths' with in the game.

[Sevenblade]

Seven, thanks for the update.

I can see how that could be the case. To me, I see it more parallel to real life politics, where allies oppose the actions of other countries, but it never is a prelude to conflict. US and French relations for example, or even relations with Israel.

So I do not see the situations described in the 'Path' stories creating such an urgency that the task force dissolution is an obvious step.

Again, I maintain that it could be argued reasonably either way --- again the Irony of the parallel of Starfleet vs. Anika, and our division on the forums.



No problem. And I get what you're saying here, and for the most part it makes sense/parallels the situation, but then again, the French never kicked U.S. citizens off French soil when they condemned us for invading Iraq. That the Klingons did that could definitely be a prelude to conflict. So yeah, it's a similar situation, but different in terms of severity. The Klingon/Federation tensions are definitely much higher than a general disapproval from the French lol.
And remember, I wasn't ever really disagreeing with you entirely. Mostly I was arguing for the sake of posters like dr. watson on page 7 who stated that Cryptic's version of the timeline didn't make sense or fit with accepted Star Trek history. I was trying to challenge this very limited viewpoint.

But yeah, it could be argued either way, and I thought you actually did a very good job in defending your position. I agree with a good many more parts than my stance made it seem lol. Especially since your posts including very good reasons about why the Federation shouldn't forget about the Borg, which will probably come back to bite them, if the trailer is any indication.
I have to thank you, actually, for giving me such a good verbal sparring:);). Every time I find someone who is willing to have this in-depth of a discussion and present their opinions logically, calmly, and back them up with facts, I get back just a little bit more faith in the population of this forum, and maybe (though this could be stretching it) the Internet/people in general.

[keiranhalcyon2010]

Hi there everyone,

Been a Trekkie since I was 6 and ST TNG premiered - that got me into the TOS and DS9 and VOY as it was released.

ENT was disappointing, there were good eps and story ideas, but it just fell through on overall delivery and I wanted to see the Earth-Rom War! Also the tech for the era was all over the place - I wanted gritty, hard as nails, pioneering feel to the tech - I wanted lasers, nukes, Point defense, no shields - with only the Vulcans being 'advanced' as the elder race of the era.

I've been reading over the story prequels and articles of STOnline now, and everything is cool, except it seems endemic that writers want the Federation to shoot itself in the foot. The interview with Anika Hansen(7of9) summed it up neatly. How many more lessons does the UFP need that 'Utopia' cannot be achieved and maintained without the 'power' to protect it?

'Oh the Borg has not been seen in seven years, they're gone, so lets just dismantle the task force whose sole job it is to protect our butts from being assimilated.' It seems 'stupidity' cough, cough Necheyev cough, is still as common in the 24/25th Centuries as it is in the 21st. Maybe Q needs to pop up and give the NextGen a lesson again.

See ya.

[Corehaven22]

What does this have to do with the game? Its your opinion on Star Trek as a whole right? Well.....alright.

See ya.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

I've been reading over the story prequels and articles of STOnline now, and everything is cool, except it seems endemic that writers want the Federation to shoot itself in the foot. The interview with Anika Hansen(7of9) summed it up neatly. How many more lessons does the UFP need that 'Utopia' cannot be achieved and maintained without the 'power' to protect it?

One wouldn't want the Federation to be presented as infallible. I appreciate this element of the story as a representation of the kind of political differences and competing priorities that exist in a complex society and its military, and as a mark of the story's depth.

[Akumaka]

Yes, well, Humans were never really good at learning from their mistakes. Welcome to the STO Forums. :D

[Corehaven22]

Yes, well, Humans were never really good at learning from their mistakes. Welcome to the STO Forums. :D

Im not sure if there was a pun there or not. But I laughed out loud anyways. Thanks for that. :D

[Buzz_McCool]

Sounds like human nature to me.

[Tamgros]

Yeah, I tend to like the brashness of the Fed. It'll be their undoing :p

[Nytok]

I agree that their is an illogical nature of humans and even the Feds of 23rd century and on. However, in my opinion, that is what gives humans their charm.

[Tamgros]

I agree that their is an illogical nature of humans and even the Feds of 23rd century and on. However, in my opinion, that is what gives humans their charm.

Yeah, to get somewhat serious for a moment, you can't have it set up so that the Fed is doing everything perfectly. There has to be conflict and captains making up for deficiencies of their faction. That makes each captain feel much more epic.

That, and it would probably feel much worse to fail as a SF Captain if SF was built up to be infallible.

[OddjobXL]

I'm an outsider here so I can't help but look at what Star Trek is compared to all of the other settings I've researched in my years as a roleplayer.

There's really nothing like the Federation anywhere else. You want gritty politics and treachery? Sure, there have been episodes of even TNG or DS9 that looked at internal moral and strategic failings in The Federation. The Romulans especially but also the Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians among others are motivated by generally more real politik and less idealistic motives.

However the uniqueness is that The Federation knows better. The one thing you think when you see them fall down is "They should be ashamed of themselves, they know better than this." There's an underlaying ideal of The Federation that produced people like Picard who, later, end up having to sometimes hold a mirror to it and remind it of what it stands for.

There's something very comforting and inspiring in this vision, realistic or not, to many people. If Star Trek was really just action-adventure and shoot 'em ups and the Federation was a morally compromised, byzantine, web of murky self-interested ethically lapsed manipulators would it really have the following it does? I don't think so.

There's nothing else quite like it out there.

If you want to see the "other side" of what The Federation could be I'd recommend looking at The Alliance in Firefly. Kind, benevolent on the surface but steely, manipulative and self-interested when necessary at the core. I'm looking forward to a Firefly MMO one day too, believe me, I like the gritty swashbuckling thing in a big way.

But that's not what I want here. I can get that elsewhere. The Federation and its ideals are unique and I'll never see that anywhere else but STO. Let's do it right.

[Jerosh_Skitari]

I actually think it's smart from the Federation's point of view to temporarily dismantle the Borg taskforce. However, I believe it would be prudent to have some uber-long range scouts keeping tabs on the Borg just in case. But to pour tons of resources into defending against a threat that will return at an unknown time isn't exactly the best use of resources.

Imagine the scenario in which the Federation keeps the Borg taskforce. High amounts of military spending for a prolonged period of time is what leads to the downfall of great civilizations. The Borg are smart, and probably have their eyes on the Federation. All the Borg have to do in this scenario is wait for the Federation to collapse (or even just hiccup) due to their military spending and then invade.

I believe that the best attribute of a civilization's military is not how well it can fight at all times, but how swiftly it can move from a peacetime footing to a wartime footing. So I applaude the Federation for focusing more on science and exploration during this relatively peaceful time. I just hope it can switch back to a war setting fast when the time comes.

[CrazyVulcan]

I'm an outsider here so I can't help but look at what Star Trek is compared to all of the other settings I've researched in my years as a roleplayer.

There's really nothing like the Federation anywhere else. You want gritty politics and treachery? Sure, there have been episodes of even TNG or DS9 that looked at internal moral and strategic failings in The Federation. The Romulans especially but also the Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians among others are motivated by generally more real politik and less idealistic motives.

However the uniqueness is that The Federation knows better. The one thing you think when you see them fall down is "They should be ashamed of themselves, they know better than this." There's an underlaying ideal of The Federation that produced people like Picard who, later, end up having to sometimes hold a mirror to it and remind it of what it stands for.

There's something very comforting and inspiring in this vision, realistic or not, to many people. If Star Trek was really just action-adventure and shoot 'em ups and the Federation was a morally compromised, byzantine, web of murky self-interested ethically lapsed manipulators would it really have the following it does? I don't think so.

There's nothing else quite like it out there.

If you want to see the "other side" of what The Federation could be I'd recommend looking at The Alliance in Firefly. Kind, benevolent on the surface but steely, manipulative and self-interested when necessary at the core. I'm looking forward to a Firefly MMO one day too, believe me, I like the gritty swashbuckling thing in a big way.

But that's not what I want here. I can get that elsewhere. The Federation and its ideals are unique and I'll never see that anywhere else but STO. Let's do it right.


all of this can be summed up by the man who can say it the best

"I have nothing but admiration for this silly race of ours. Even with the Hitlers in it and so on. Sometimes it goes into ugliness, but, in all though, it is a beauty. It's like a rose, which also has thorns. We're something."

- Eugene Wesley Roddenberry, from personal conversations with Gene in 1990 at La Costa, CA

[Nador_Ekoor]

organizing timeline together here...

[KiraYamatoX20A]

Very Interesting read!!! I enjoy reading the regular Paths, and I also like reading the Supplemental Logs--and this one is really good!

Do you remain in contact with Captain Chakotay?

I’m afraid I do not see the relevance of your question.

Please, humor me.

Naturally, I remain in contact with most of the crewmembers from Voyager. We all spent a great deal of time together and remain close.

I think the reporter there somehow heard about the Chakotay/Seven of Nine Romance that was going on just before Voyager came home, and was going for a little bit of a Tabloid Approach by asking about it in an indirect way. However, she shot that attempt down in a major big hurry!

I think we all know that the Borg are still a threat and always will be until we know they have been destroyed!! Annika's work at the Daystrom Institute will help a lot when we next meet the Borg but how can Starfleet not have a fleet ready for them! All I know is my ship will be as ready as it can be.

I'm with you there!!!! In fact, I intend to have Transphasic Torpedoes as Standard Armament on ALL of my ships!!! Along with a little something I call the Main Deflector Cannon--which will be a potent weapon not just against the Borg, but also against any kind of enemy!!!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

"Kira Yamato!! Freedom!! Let's do it!!!!!"

[Tylor_Liles]

maybe in path to 2388 chakotay and seven get married. maybe. or much cooler if she dated data. nah, that would never work out. never know.....
ya know if someone can figure an average time between path to....(like 2 a month or so)they can roughly figure the release date out.....
i want someone to try to figure out the release date(i suck at math)


"What would you do?"

- Riker addressing Picard's empty chair in the ready room

(Best of Both Worlds Part ll)

When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'

-Theodore Roosevelt

[robman300]

Wait, how would studying the technological applications of any powerful piece of equipment be “short term”?

The problem that Hansen mentions, and I quite agree with, is that Starfleet is allowing its current desire for technologies such as the Mobile Emitter to override good, long-term planning. Just as Data had to fight to not be forcably dismantled for study, the Doctor has to fight for his rights as a sentient being. Starfleet is seeing a technology they want, and without regards for the possibility of hurting people (i.e. The Doctor) they are hurting the moral framework of the Federation, to seek out new life.

Is the Federation's myopia (to use the word Hansen did) so great that they cannot ask the question "Should we assume non-organic life forms are not people" before they start limiting the rights of those individuals?

Its dangerous! If we (humanity) cannot empathize with the Doctor, who actually looks and sounds like us, then I fear for our collective ability to recognize and respect life that is vastly different (Species 8472, for starters).

[Endow]

This is very interesting. I look forward to hearing more about characters in the Star Trek Universe and what they are doing now. Star Fleet is foolish to not think the Borg is not a threat.