Does no consequences mean no death?

[Stu1701]

We all know Cryptic has made it clear that we wont be receiving death penalties in STO, so if we haven't saved and we get killed, fail a mission, or something like that we won't have to redo anything we would've lost (experience points, newly acquired tech, etc.). From what I've seen lately on the forums it sounds like a lot of people are under the impression that players won't be able to kill people or blow up opponents ships. They can just keep shooting to a certain point and their weapons will do nothing or something. What I want to know is does this mean we can't blow up opponents ship or kill them on an away team. Couldn't we just respawn at a starbase, not having lost any of the stuff we gained before getting killed?

[knightofhyrule730]

Ahahaha. MMOs don't have a "save game" feature. You don't get to load every time you die. You die and then you get teleported somewhere else as a respawn.

[Stu1701]

Ahahaha. MMOs don't have a "save game" feature. You don't get to load every time you die. You die and then you get teleported somewhere else as a respawn.

Whatever, I'm new to MMO's. I'm just curious on how the no consequences policy is going to work.

[TruthSeer]

And they didn't say no death penalties. They said no harsh penalties meaning no perma death. We'll most likely have to pay for ship repairs or something. But we don't really know anything other than the statement "no harsh death penalties" everything else is guess work.

[ngille]

And they didn't say no death penalties. They said no harsh penalties meaning no perma death. We'll most likely have to pay for ship repairs or something. But we don't really know anything other than the statement "no harsh death penalties" everything else is guess work.

Well said, it seems that a lot of folks either don't read the information completely or are just looking for things to start heated discussions.

Yeah, there will be death penalties, no they won't be harsh.

[Reinkaos]

From what I've seen lately on the forums it sounds like a lot of people are under the impression that players won't be able to kill people or blow up opponents ships. They can just keep shooting to a certain point and their weapons will do nothing or something. What I want to know is does this mean we can't blow up opponents ship or kill them on an away team. Couldn't we just respawn at a starbase, not having lost any of the stuff we gained before getting killed?



Although an aside to this topic, this made me think about ship to ship combat, and I hope we can destroy ships, and that it's just up to each Captain's style and finesse to decide whether or not to destroy the enemy ship.

[Stu1701]

Although an aside to this topic, this made me think about ship to ship combat, and I hope we can destroy ships, and that it's just up to each Captain's style and finesse to decide whether or not to destroy the enemy ship.

Exactly. Are we going to be able to destroy other player's ships or are we only going to be able to disable/cripple them?

[tenikis]

Maybe something alone the lines of what 'pirates of the burning sea' MMO does?

Players build or buy their own ships and each ship comes with durability points (usually 3). Every time you loose a ship in a fight (or PvE :) the dura decreases until you have none and loose the ship entirely.

I really do hope STO will be something similar to this as people in PvP fights where they are risking something they have spent lots of money on or ages building fight a lot differently to people who know if they die there is hardly any repercussions. It makes the fight much more intense for all parties involved IMO.

PvP with no loss is just arcade mode suicide charge time 'so what if I die, I just get a -15% damage debuff for 30 mins and respawn with all my stuff 10 light years away' kinda crap.

ten

[USS_Parallax]

We all know Cryptic has made it clear that we wont be receiving death penalties in STO

No they haven't. We'll receive some. Just not a lot. Probably about the same as Champions Online which basically works like your armor gets damaged and it's a resource drain. Maybe some form of resurrection sickness like WoW. No exp dept which was always stupidly weak.

We'll have death penalties. Just not the kind that make you want to rip yours eyes out and kill everyone within a 100 feet of you.

[oleum]

No they haven't. We'll receive some. Just not a lot. Probably about the same as Champions Online which basically works like your armor gets damaged and it's a resource drain. Maybe some form of resurrection sickness like WoW. No exp dept which was always stupidly weak.

We'll have death penalties. Just not the kind that make you want to rip yours eyes out and kill everyone within a 100 feet of you.

No exp has been talked about, just progression through ranks. So exp debt is out.

I want to just say , no penalties at all = no fun at all

[Cormoran]

I'd be happy with something that stops people from re-entering the same battle they just died in, so a battle can essentially act like a battle, but i see no need for anything harsher. It's a game, which is made to be played and for people to enjoy, to me there's no need to make things harsh to a point that people don't even want to try it, or prematurely quit the game because of it.

[tenikis]

I'd be happy with something that stops people from re-entering the same battle they just died in, so a battle can essentially act like a battle, but i see no need for anything harsher. It's a game, which is made to be played and for people to enjoy, to me there's no need to make things harsh to a point that people don't even want to try it, or prematurely quit the game because of it.

True, this is the kinda pvp in darkfall and is quite devestating to the loser. If you get killed and looted you loose everything you had on you :)

But you gotta put something in to make people shy away from the thinking 'no biggie if I die, I dont loose anything really. I can just mess about in no risk pvp frolics all day without any real punishment'. And of course reward the victors somewhat.

I just hope its more harsher than warhammer for example where if your killed in pvp you get a crappy debuff that you can pay to be removed instantly and you spawn just down the road from the battle you were in. So basically people are dying, removing the debuff, going back to same battle within a minute or two, repeat 50 times.

Its basically a third person quake style arcade game with some leveling and crafting thrown in.

ten

[cyris]

Im sure ships will blow up. They might just do something like EVE where you escape in a life pod. Except no one can kill your life pod in this game... and then you load back at the nearest starbase.

[achudnow]

Im sure ships will blow up. They might just do something like EVE where you escape in a life pod. Except no one can kill your life pod in this game... and then you load back at the nearest starbase.
If they use the EVE model then the ships had better be far less expensive. You generally spend weeks grinding though boring crap trying to get enough resources or hideous amounts of cash to build any kind of decent ship in EVE. To have it blown away in a 90 second PvP fight is simply ludicrous and the major reason I stopped playing the silly game.

[DarkBarron]

Well I hope if your ship goes Boooom! then any fittings or equipment you have above the standard level goes boom too.
This would make you tink twice before suisiding your best ship and fittings and also give the crafting ecconomy a boost
replacing all that upgraded equipment.

[stabnore]

Maybe something alone the lines of what 'pirates of the burning sea' MMO does?

Players build or buy their own ships and each ship comes with durability points (usually 3). Every time you loose a ship in a fight (or PvE :) the dura decreases until you have none and loose the ship entirely.

I really do hope STO will be something similar to this as people in PvP fights where they are risking something they have spent lots of money on or ages building fight a lot differently to people who know if they die there is hardly any repercussions. It makes the fight much more intense for all parties involved IMO.

PvP with no loss is just arcade mode suicide charge time 'so what if I die, I just get a -15% damage debuff for 30 mins and respawn with all my stuff 10 light years away' kinda crap.

ten

Spoken like a true Klingon... and no, that isn't a compliment. So simple and predictable, all you can think of is your lust for glorious combat and a pointless death. I am pretty sure this would count as a harsh penalty my lumpy foreheaded friend. Besides wouldn't stiff penalties make it a bad day to die?

I don't see why life should have any consequences. but of course, your existence is so much different from my own it's like you telling ants they shouldn't mind being burned with a magnifying glass.

I will enjoy sitting back and watching your valiant struggle against overwhelming odds. I do hope you all acquit yourselves well when your end does come.

[USS_Parallax]

No exp has been talked about, just progression through ranks. So exp debt is out.

I want to just say , no penalties at all = no fun at all

Again, THERE WILL BE PENALTIES. And I just gave exp dept as an example of what they've done in the past.

The Death Penalties will be akin to WoW probably. Annoying but nothing to kill yourself over.

[jagerbolt]

My random guess would be that you cannot use the ship that you lost for x amount of time as ship repairs are underway. They mentioned you can switch back to older ships you had so it would work as a penalty. You are forced to be in a 'downgraded' ship as the penalty but you can still play the game.

And if ships do not blow up I would be very disappointed. :(

[Traveller]

My random guess would be that you cannot use the ship that you lost for x amount of time as ship repairs are underway. They mentioned you can switch back to older ships you had so it would work as a penalty. You are forced to be in a 'downgraded' ship as the penalty but you can still play the game.

And if ships do not blow up I would be very disappointed. :(

bit sucky if u only got 1 ship though. wht u suposed to do while its getting fixed?

[achudnow]

jagerbolt, I agree that no exploding ship would be vasty disappointing. The idea of a downtime for ship repair forcing you to use another ship to keep playing immediately is excellent. Annoying but not crippling. A nice balance.

[Atavax]

there has to be minimal death penalty or else people will be too afraid of death to pvp. and deaths cant be huge explosions, because it will crash half the player's computers if several people die at the same time.

[achudnow]

bit sucky if u only got 1 ship though. wht u suposed to do while its getting fixed?

Perhaps you can't PvP in a newbie ship so you'll always have it to fall back on. It probably wouldn't be a good idea anyway as I'm assuming a starter ship would be significantly weak on fighting capability. Alternatively you could be granted a new "starter" ship ala EVE.

[lokan]

Maybe something alone the lines of what 'pirates of the burning sea' MMO does?

Players build or buy their own ships and each ship comes with durability points (usually 3). Every time you loose a ship in a fight (or PvE :) the dura decreases until you have none and loose the ship entirely.

I really do hope STO will be something similar to this as people in PvP fights where they are risking something they have spent lots of money on or ages building fight a lot differently to people who know if they die there is hardly any repercussions. It makes the fight much more intense for all parties involved IMO.

PvP with no loss is just arcade mode suicide charge time 'so what if I die, I just get a -15% damage debuff for 30 mins and respawn with all my stuff 10 light years away' kinda crap.

ten

I like the EVE approach myself. If you lose your ship..you lose your ship, you and your crew presumably make it out the escape pods. Starfleet/the Empire then give you another of whatever the starter ship for each Empire is. If you had enough money/prestige/whatever STO uses to get new ships/upgrade you can replace your old ship, and if you don't then you're back to doing whatever you can with the starter ship while you recover your losses.

Basically a "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" philosophy.

[tenikis]

Spoken like a true Klingon... and no, that isn't a compliment. So simple and predictable, all you can think of is your lust for glorious combat and a pointless death. I am pretty sure this would count as a harsh penalty my lumpy foreheaded friend. Besides wouldn't stiff penalties make it a bad day to die?

I don't see why life should have any consequences. but of course, your existence is so much different from my own it's like you telling ants they shouldn't mind being burned with a magnifying glass.

I will enjoy sitting back and watching your valiant struggle against overwhelming odds. I do hope you all acquit yourselves well when your end does come.

Ah... role play, sorry bro, not here for any of that :). I care not about the code of the warrior or any of that crap about a good day to die, honor in death blah blah etc. I am simply going to role Kingon when the game goes live as its quite apparent the Feds will be heavily over populated and I would rather play the underdog faction.

That is all.

ten

[tenikis]

I like the EVE approach myself. If you lose your ship..you lose your ship, you and your crew presumably make it out the escape pods. Starfleet/the Empire then give you another of whatever the starter ship for each Empire is. If you had enough money/prestige/whatever STO uses to get new ships/upgrade you can replace your old ship, and if you don't then you're back to doing whatever you can with the starter ship while you recover your losses.

Basically a "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" philosophy.

This sounds very good, similar to what potbs has and enough to make PvP risky but not devastating enough to make people /ragequit.



ten

[Traveller]

Perhaps you can't PvP in a newbie ship so you'll always have it to fall back on. It probably wouldn't be a good idea anyway as I'm assuming a starter ship would be significantly weak on fighting capability. Alternatively you could be granted a new "starter" ship ala EVE.

Dnt think stater ship will be sucky at all.
You start in a light cruiser hmmmm! not going to bad weapons wise and shields wise.

Loosing your ship is a bad idea. Its gona suck and maybe make people leave.
Cryptic have said tht there arent gona be any harsh penalties and losing your ship is a hrash penalty.
People that play EVE must have nothing else to do. Lose ship ahh its ok I'll just spend a week getting another 1

[tenikis]

Loosing your ship is a bad idea. Its gona suck and maybe make people leave.
Cryptic have said tht there arent gona be any harsh penalties and losing your ship is a hrash penalty.
People that play EVE must have nothing else to do. Lose ship ahh its ok I'll just spend a week getting another 1


Well that all depends on how easy it is to acquire a new ship.

ten

[Traveller]

Cryptic have already stated that u get to keep your old ships anyway,becisue earlier ones might be more usefull for certain missions i.e being more manouverable.

IMHO I dnt think that you will lose ships in PvP or PvE combat.

[tenikis]

Maybe you will maybe you wont. I would prefer it if you did even if it has a durability amount or goes to a repair yard for a certain amount of time as so to introduce some risk into PvP. If there is no risk people dont take it as seriously, wading into fights against silly odds, suiciding ships all the time as nothing happens if you loose. Just turns the game into a spamorama ffa rampage with no discipline, or thats what I have found every time ive played other no risk PvP MMOs.

I dont want something that makes people quit the game, but it would be nice to have people think twice about fighting or not because of the risk involved.

ten

[jhem99]

Death is not an option?:confused:

[achudnow]

Dnt think stater ship will be sucky at all.
You start in a light cruiser hmmmm! not going to bad weapons wise and shields wise.

Well, I didn't say sucky, what I meant was significantly weaker than upgraded ships that you'll more likely find in PvP.

People that play EVE must have nothing else to do. Lose ship ahh its ok I'll just spend a week getting another 1

Yup. EVEs the game you play on your second computer when you're doing something else.

Well that all depends on how easy it is to acquire a new ship.

Exactly. EVE is an extreme. And really I was commenting on the scenario where you lose your only ship in PvP. Personally I don't think the loss of your ship is really a good idea. Repair time and cost in dry dock would be my preference.

[lokan]

Loosing your ship is a bad idea. Its gona suck and maybe make people leave.
Cryptic have said tht there arent gona be any harsh penalties and losing your ship is a hrash penalty.
People that play EVE must have nothing else to do. Lose ship ahh its ok I'll just spend a week getting another 1

The only way it's going to take you a 'week' to get another ship is if you do something foolish. If you want to spend every dime you've ever earned on a new ship and equipment, then immediately run out and get yourself blown up, that's your business. It's not 'harsh' of the game to let you deal with your own actions.


Exactly. EVE is an extreme. And really I was commenting on the scenario where you lose your only ship in PvP. Personally I don't think the loss of your ship is really a good idea. Repair time and cost in dry dock would be my preference.

Why not just make PVP a mini-game then? If there's zero risk, zero danger, and zero consequences it hardly seems worth wasting the resources developing a system for it.

[Caveat53]

On two extreme ends of the spectrum, WoW death means you run for a few minutes. EVE death means you loose your ship and outfit and skill points if you didn't have a clone. I would like to see a happy medium.

[achudnow]

"Down time" for ship repair and repair costs are consequences.

[lokan]

"Down time" for ship repair and repair costs are consequences.

How much down time? How much should it cost? Remember, we don't want to be too 'harsh' just because you ran your Miranda into 3 Borg Cubes. :p

"Prepare to be momentarily delayed human scum!" or "Klingon vessel, stand down or we will be forced to briefly inconvenience you!" don't really make for great battle cries.

[achudnow]

Well, I would say that cost would in the neighborhood of 10% of affected systems similiar to damage to durability to various pieces of armor in a fantasy game like Lord of the Rings Online. This of course would be adjusted to be commenserate with the damage taken in defeat during non-PvP play.

Time down should be limited to a minute or under. Take a look at WOW where PvP is extreamly popular. A character killed during a PvP instance is only down for a minute at maximum. He/She is then resurrected and can return to the game.

If you destroy a players ship you take away her ability to play the game. If i get defeated playing PvP I don't want that to be the end of my playing session. This is not an insentive to play in PvP.

[Z3r0Fear]

I'm with your ship being blown up. That's a good enough death. After your ship is blown up your inside of an escape pod which you fly back to your nearest space station for your faction and get a replacement ship you know like the one you start off with when you first join the game. Also I don't agree with instance fighting because that is just boring. At that point your no longer in a galaxy your inside of a playground seriously come on think about it. I just think that ships not blowing up and just being severely damaged would be boring. I just think that having a real penalty like your ship blowing up will make players take better care of there ships instead of trying suicidal runs.

[Traveller]

also in PvP in WoW u dnt lose durability in ur items when u get killed the only problem u get is having to run or ride back to where ever the figting is.
One way to do it would be like people have said before once your out u stay out till the fight is over. Or u join another 1

[Traveller]

I'm with your ship being blown up. That's a good enough death. After your ship is blown up your inside of an escape pod which you fly back to your nearest space station for your faction and get a replacement ship you know like the one you start off with when you first join the game. Also I don't agree with instance fighting because that is just boring. At that point your no longer in a galaxy your inside of a playground seriously come on think about it. I just think that ships not blowing up and just being severely damaged would be boring. I just think that having a real penalty like your ship blowing up will make players take better care of there ships instead of trying suicidal runs.

Which part of no harsh death penalties are people not understanding.
Cryptic have said there will be no harsh penalties and losing your ship is harsh!!!

[lokan]

Well, I would say that cost would in the neighborhood of 10% of affected systems similiar to damage to durability to various pieces of armor in a fantasy game like Lord of the Rings Online. This of course would be adjusted to be commenserate with the damage taken in defeat during non-PvP play.

Time down should be limited to a minute or under. Take a look at WOW where PvP is extreamly popular. A character killed during a PvP instance is only down for a minute at maximum. He/She is then resurrected and can return to the game.

If you destroy a players ship you take away her ability to play the game. If i get defeated playing PvP I don't want that to be the end of my playing session. This is not an insentive to play in PvP.


If that were the case then I'd prefer weaponry similar to WoW so that PVP fights only last a minute or two, maybe even seconds. Any kind of extended or in depth battle would be completely pointless knowing that all you're going to accomplish is slowing the other guy up for 30 seconds.

If you don't want to lose your ship, don't PVP? If your terrified of losing any time, money or equipment, why not just stick with PVE?

[Z3r0Fear]

Which part of no harsh death penalties are people not understanding.
Cryptic have said there will be no harsh penalties and losing your ship is harsh!!!

I really don't consider losing your ship harsh. The only thing you lose is a few million latinum on high ship classes make it less you lose on lower ship classes. If your scared of losing your ship then you shouldn't be doing combat stick to space exploration and other non-combat activities.

[Traveller]

I really don't consider losing your ship harsh. The only thing you lose is a few million latinum on high ship classes make it less you lose on lower ship classes. If your scared of losing your ship then you shouldn't be doing combat stick to space exploration and other non-combat activities.

erm cos it is.
I PvP in WoW and died loads but didnt stop me from playin in PvP
put it this way if u have or play WoW would u continue to play if your character died and you had to start over. Hmm think not.
IF its EVE then enough said!

[andrewprofit]

Since the design of the game needs to speak to the masses I don't think it will innvolve death if you want play eve and u can loose skills. Startrek should be easy and casual with tons of details for the needs and plenty of content so people can be entertained.I hope it goes the next step and rrae realizes the alaome potential of mmo to connect people in reallife

[wootage]

Anyone thought of escape pods yet? I'd assumed that if your ship is destroyed (we can see that happening in the videos, those ARE player ships getting blown to bits) you'd launch in an escape pod and "wake up" at the nearest base. Then you'd be issued the lowest ship available that befits your rank and have to make up your customizations again.