Tactical usage of a tractor beam

[Arcticfrost]

In almost all Star trek games the tractor beam is only used as a passive device to move objects such as turrets or sensor arrays throughout the map however they aren’t used for any tactical purposes such as restraining an enemy ship. Do you think in STO you will be able to use a tractor beam for these purposes, or do you think they are simply to difficult to use effectively and unfeasible for battle purposes? I noticed in the screen shot Federation ships mass to block a Borg advance, that two of the Borg cubes seem to be emitting tractor beams.

[Vorador]

I'm hoping you can use the tractor beam to catch a smaller ship, like a defiant for instance, and just move it to your forward arc and unload on it :)

[Azurian]

Yep, in the Starfleet Command Series, Tractor Beams were used offensively and defensively, with various power settings so a ship couldn't escape so easily.

SFC3 had a nice feature in rotating the ship around you, and positioning it in a favorable position. Weither it's in your forward arc, or off to the side and you slamming the hostile ship into a planet or an asteriod. Heck, even draging that hostile ship into gravity well of a black hole.

In DS9, they used a nice feature with the tractor beams in keeping the Defiant out of the firing arc of a Vor'cha, while they were in the process of rescuing. That's one feature I would really like to see implemented in STO.

[walker555]

Yes, i do believe that they will serve a purpose in combat, and if not its a shame. We have seen numerous times throughout the life of Star Trek that systems not generally thought to be used in combat can be, I cite the Piccard Maneuver.

[dyvimtorm]

Yep, in the Starfleet Command Series, Tractor Beams were used offensively and defensively, with various power settings so a ship couldn't escape so easily.

SFC3 had a nice feature in rotating the ship around you, and positioning it in a favorable position. Weither it's in your forward arc, or off to the side and you slamming the hostile ship into a planet or an asteriod. Heck, even draging that hostile ship into gravity well of a black hole.

In DS9, they used a nice feature with the tractor beams in keeping the Defiant out of the firing arc of a Vor'cha, while they were in the process of rescuing. That's one feature I would really like to see implemented in STO.

In MMO terms this would be a "root" spell. /flameprotect Ok, I'm not saying it's a spell, I'm not saying we call it that, I'm just saying this is its analogue in a standard fantasy MMORPG! That being said, would tractors be unbreakable, or should tractors take up a lot of power, so if you tractor someone, unloading every weapon would be impossible because of powerplant limitations, and you either accept less firepower, or better yet, have to coordinate with another player who unloads while you tractor?

Pavel Bester

[BreachAndClear]

Hopefully it won't be used as an offensive weapon. While in ST, they are used offensively, this is relatively rare and usually only done when seizing a ship. I can't think of an instance when a ship was grabbed and then "unloaded upon" (excluding Borg usage)/ I think if included offensively, it would just result to its chaotic use and everyone simply starts to tractor everyone else. Perhaps you could use it to manipulate the battlefield, and environment by moving asteroids, etc. Or towing disabled ships as missions require. But I don't think it should be used as a "spell" to hold ship in place as an offensive weapon.

[Tumek]

if any one knows wow, i can see the tractor beam doing somthing like "entangling roots" but the tractor beam would have to reqire a certain amount of sustained energy and you would have to remain ckise enough to the target for it to hold.

If the borg are going to be in the game so is the tractor beam. They just kinda hold u there as they cut a sample from your ship or begin beaming aboard drones.

[DanSeale]

Yep, in the Starfleet Command Series, Tractor Beams were used offensively and defensively, with various power settings so a ship couldn't escape so easily.

SFC3 had a nice feature in rotating the ship around you, and positioning it in a favorable position. Weither it's in your forward arc, or off to the side and you slamming the hostile ship into a planet or an asteriod. Heck, even draging that hostile ship into gravity well of a black hole.

In DS9, they used a nice feature with the tractor beams in keeping the Defiant out of the firing arc of a Vor'cha, while they were in the process of rescuing. That's one feature I would really like to see implemented in STO.

Yup ! worked very nicely too ! Especially if you dropped your ship into reverse and coutered the rotation ... (made it faster some times) ..

good feature ... hope its there !

[Dogbertious]

Hopefully, if in the right environment, we could use the tractor beam to our advantage.....

For instance, as Breach wrote, grabbing an asteroid, and moving it. You could be moving it to cover an ally, or maybe to fling it at an enemy ship, to force them to move from their current heading, or to focus their fire on it to destroy it.

It would be great fun to run about an asteroid belt, fighting an enemy, with both ships flinging rocks at each other while trying to get a clean shot :)

[THORN74]

i for one hope like hell the old SFC trick of pulling/pushing people thru anitmatter mines with ur tractor beam does NOT work.

[Azurian]

Yep, which is why I'm hoping we are able to use it that way. :D

In MMO terms this would be a "root" spell. /flameprotect Ok, I'm not saying it's a spell, I'm not saying we call it that, I'm just saying this is its analogue in a standard fantasy MMORPG! That being said, would tractors be unbreakable, or should tractors take up a lot of power, so if you tractor someone, unloading every weapon would be impossible because of powerplant limitations, and you either accept less firepower, or better yet, have to coordinate with another player who unloads while you tractor?

Pavel Bester

Bad comparison, Pavel. Root spells prevented all movement of a target, while Tractor beams don't necessarily stop a target. (More like they keeping their distance from the ship that's tractoring).

And Tractor Beams don't take that much power, because starships can tow at warp.

[achudnow]

In MMO terms this would be a "root" spell. /flameprotect Ok, I'm not saying it's a spell, I'm not saying we call it that, I'm just saying this is its analogue in a standard fantasy MMORPG! That being said, would tractors be unbreakable, or should tractors take up a lot of power, so if you tractor someone, unloading every weapon would be impossible because of powerplant limitations, and you either accept less firepower, or better yet, have to coordinate with another player who unloads while you tractor?

Pavel Bester

This would be a very traditional way of implementing what I think would be a great feature in the game. As stated there's plenty of precedent in the cannon, it's a standard tactical ability in almost all MMOs, would be a great visual and, perhaps most importantly, would be fun!

It's an ability, as Pavel stated, that would be limited by both range and power consumption so balance is easily maintained and provides both an additional tactical option in a fight and would encourage collaborative play with others. Something we know from COV/H is near and dear to Cryptic's heart.

[dyvimtorm]

Yep, which is why I'm hoping we are able to use it that way. :D



Bad comparison, Pavel. Root spells prevented all movement of a target, while Tractor beams don't necessarily stop a target. (More like they keeping their distance from the ship that's tractoring).

And Tractor Beams don't take that much power, because starships can tow at warp.

Hi sorry, was writing fast. Snare would be more appropriate for analogous term, unless you have a very powerful tractor (like Borg). While starships can tow at warp, I would presume that's a passive vessel not resisting snare with thrust, gravity systems and their own phase inverted tractor (like that technobabble, yeah, go me! :P With a vessel actively resisting, I presume power usage would escalate rapidly. I also think you need some sort of limitation to this technique, or it'll be unbalanced, allowing a crowd control snare and focused fire damage from the same vessel.

Pushing more electrons,

Pavel Bester

[Azurian]

Well snare is a better description, but really no MMORPG term best describes a Tractor Beam. Heck, you shouldn't really use MMORPG terms when it comes to Star Trek. :p

As for a ship resisting a tractor beam, it depends on the size of the ship. As we seen in various Star Trek moments, smaller ships that try very hard to resist a tractor beam, end up causing catastrophic damage to which they end up destroyed or the heroes turn off the tractor beam before it got to that point. But I don't recall them ever stating that they were running out of power or even hinting at that.

[stabnore]

The Phrase: "I have them right where they want me." comes to mind when I think about using tractor beams in combat.

Mostly because I am under the impression that you have to lower your shields to use them. The act of using them would also make you more vulnerable than your opponent.

Don't worry though I'll show you how to fight in space.

[Than]

Well in ST bridge commander i used it quite often to keep a ship in fire alignment. E.G i was aiming for the weapon banks and the cardassian ship refused to stand still, well then we just apply short doages of tractor beam to lock in place while my tactical officer was unleasing all his torpedoes and phaser banks on the weapons array.

It worked fine, just dont overuse it as it draws allot of power and you dont want to be in a 3 vs 1 with all your energy depleted ;)

[Krasinet]

It's my guess that ships can't use a tractor and fie at the same time. Certainly I can't remember it ever occuring in the serie. In fact, in the TNG episode "Q Who", when the Enterprise is caught in a Borg tractor beam, Data says that firing at the cube would most likely cause significant damage to the Enterprise too.

[MasterThome]

If you pull a non elastic object from opposite sides it rips. This would mean you would need to pull from two sides. A mobile tractor emitter or a second ship could be used to accomplish this. Synchronizing tractor beam strength would be suggested.

If you can rotate a ship to a point where a weakness can be hit that may be practical.

Depending on your surroundings the tractor beam should be able to guide objects to block, deflect, or even hit an opponent.

Movement can be achieved though the tractor beam i think. Pull an object that has more resistance to movement than you have strength to pull, but since you are in space resistance is futile. :D

If you can inverse the output of the tractor beam, aka make it a repulser beam you could push an enemy. For a Klingon, into a hazardous area that destroys a ship. For the Federation you can still push enemies but the federation would use it to more likely disable the vessel or just get an ally out of the way.
This repluser beam isn't far off from current star trek technology. The deflector array used to keep small pieces of interstellar dust from destroying the ship during warp flight. If you can modify either the tractor beam or deflector array to push larger objects like missiles with matter or even matter-less objects are effected by gravity. If artificial gravity is used in tractor beams then it could be used to deflect and repel enemy fire, has a second shielding system.

I don't mean to undermined anyone who has always suggested these, I mealy looked at the topic 'tactical usage of a tractor beam' and typed up the first few things that came to mind before i forget.

[Saladin_Class]

Not only should you be able to do the Gorn anchor on a ship, but you should be able to rotate then around as to fire into a down shield.

"Spock overload one of the probes and fire it at point blank range"

a GOOD CAPTIAN will use everything his ship has to offer to make sure his crew returns home.

[Jamisicus6]

lol disable their engines, tractor them and fire them towards a sun XD

[Badem]

I think if Tractor beams were to be used in combat then it would follow the same premise as the Defiant example

The Defiant had lost shields adn were relying on their Ablative armour, by tactoring and locking onto the Vor'cha they were able to disrupt it weapons lock so that they took less damage to their armour than they would have done just letting it fly loose

So if it is implemented ingame then, for a combat situation, it would have to be used with shields down (in order to allow the emitter to penetrate the shields) and all damage would be taken by the armour (thus running the risk of blowing out conduits etc) the effect it would have on an enemy is that it would reduce their lock on (after all in order to have it force an enemy to 0 velocity you would be exposing yourself an improved lock on as you would be stationary, fighting moving allows Inertial dynamics to effect the weapon fire of the attacking craft)

I believe all the Defiant simply did was screw with teh Vor'Cha inertial dynamics forcing the gunner to have to compensate for that, and its pretty safe to say the beam would have been pushing and pulling the attacker around so more of its shots failed to connect

[dyvimtorm]

Not only should you be able to do the Gorn anchor on a ship, but you should be able to rotate then around as to fire into a down shield.

"Spock overload one of the probes and fire it at point blank range"

a GOOD CAPTIAN will use everything his ship has to offer to make sure his crew returns home.

I'd rather not have tractor beams be so powerful, after all, if you can do it, so can the enemy, and I don't want battles to turn into who can tractor beam best. I'd rather have a balanced system where it can be part of the plan, perhaps more part of team play than solo play.

Hi Azurian, actually, the reason I use MMORPG terms for these things is twofold: one is to try to relate things for people coming from the MMO side of things rather than the SFB side, and second, to get people to really evaluate if something is all that novel, in the hopes that we will get novel ideas not seen in MMOs before. That seems to be offensive to some, but I promise I'm not trying to make this a fantasy MMO clone with spaceship skins, in fact I'm hoping we can avoid that! Sorry for repeating from another thread on that.

On that note, Saladin's idea of rotation to the weak shield does seem novel (I can't think of a fantasy MMO equivalent). I'm just worried it might be OP'ed. Also, how would you work that into the keyboard controls? A separate set of keys for trying to move the other ship? It'd be fun if it could be done, but balance would be tricky.

Tilting at windmills,

Pavel Bester

[Azurian]

Hi Azurian, actually, the reason I use MMORPG terms for these things is twofold: one is to try to relate things for people coming from the MMO side of things rather than the SFB side, and second, to get people to really evaluate if something is all that novel, in the hopes that we will get novel ideas not seen in MMOs before. That seems to be offensive to some, but I promise I'm not trying to make this a fantasy MMO clone with spaceship skins, in fact I'm hoping we can avoid that! Sorry for repeating from another thread on that.

No offense, but that's not necessary. In all my time playing MMORPGs, people are more likely to ask what MMORPG terms. And when it comes to Star Trek, even people who never seen it before, surely knows what things like Tractor Beams are. They just don't know the technobabble. ;)

[achudnow]

You're still talking game mechanics. Shields are shields regardless if they're magic based or force fields and be it traditional guns, a magic blast, an arrow or a phaser it's still ranged damage. In terms of code it's really that same thing with a different "skin" on it.

I've been a fan of ST since before the first airings of the original episodes but I still have no problem talking about this game in terms of traditional MMOG game mechanics.

[Azurian]

If you want to do so, fine. It's a free world. But I bet everyone here rather use Trek terms and not fantasy ones. Because it just looks silly using them here.

[achudnow]

Communicating clearly is what's important as far as I'm concerned. Whatever gets the point across clearly. I don't mind use of either set of jargon.

[Sherp]

i for one hope like hell the old SFC trick of pulling/pushing people thru anitmatter mines with ur tractor beam does NOT work.

Antimatter mines, heck! I used tractor beams in Starfleet Command to push people into asteroids. Nothing like hearing that deep, resounding boom as the two of you bounce off the surface of a giant space rock and half of the enemy's systems suddenly turn red. :D

[dru_mcd]

Not only should you be able to do the Gorn anchor on a ship, but you should be able to rotate then around as to fire into a down shield.

"Spock overload one of the probes and fire it at point blank range"

a GOOD CAPTIAN will use everything his ship has to offer to make sure his crew returns home.

AHH! That was one of the great things about Star Fleet Battles/Star Fleet Command - they took these weapon ideas to their 'logical' tactical conclusions. Transporter Bombs, Battle Pods - kinda makes me teary-eyed just thinking about it. :p I remember one time when playing SFB that one guy linked up multiple battle pods with their tractors and then began to rotate it - instant base! You could see the stormclouds over the other guy's head! :D

But do I think that Cryptic will spend all their effort to make a tactical game to the same level as SFB/SFC - NO, I don't see them even approaching this level. But, that's not what they're trying to do anyway. What they are trying to do, in my opinion, is almost the impossible - to marry the tactical space battles with the character first-person type action with a persistant world with an economy/crafting - OMFG! Even if they can pull the slighest bit of this off and have it work, I'd consider it a sucess.

Well, at least that's my perspective.:)

[LunaticFringer]

I know it's kooky but I've always wanted to use the tractor beam to enclose a disabled enemy vessel in a sphere of asteroids... :p

[Azurian]

That's evil. :p

To me, I want to tractor someone into the gravity well of a black hole and slowly be drawn in. :D

[tom_riker01]

I'm hoping that tractor beams will not be used to "catch" torpedoes, that seemed really stupid.

But tractor beams should be able to snag enemy ships and pull them towards you. I know they can be adjusted to repell but I think that should take time to recalibrate. Remember in TNG, the Enterprise snagged a fugitive who had stolen a ship. He couldn't escape so his solution was to come about, and do a suicide run on the Enterprise. The only good reason I can imagine why they didn't simply push him away with the tractor beam was because it takes time to adjust the tractor beam from "pull" to "push".

That said, you should be able to adjust how much power to throw into the tractor beam, thus determining how much "push or pull" you're applying.

I think it would be an awesome tactic to slam an incoming Klingon bird of prey with an unexpected tractor beam pulse, forcing it out of control only to slam into one of its wingmen that happened to be following too close.

Or conversely, I could see a sadistic Klingon commander using a tractor beam to toss an immoblized federation ship into a field of asteroids or a sun, or possibly a planet. My only concern with the planet scenario is that when a warp core goes...it goes in a big bang, and that should pretty well decimate the planet, but that's another story. I can easily see that same Klingon commander throwing the ship into the atmosphere of a federation colony planet.

I guess my feeling on the issue is tractor beams should be able to push and pull, but not both at the same time. However they should be able to push or pull just about anything shy of torpedoes, which allows skippers to get very creative with their usage.

[CaptainOsaka]

i find the tractor beam specially in Starfleet Command III, is very useful for ramming over powering ships. Into the sun or nearby planet, assuming you can stop in time so you dont destroy your self as well. :eek:

[MasterThome]

I agree with tom_riker01. To be able to push or pull a torpedo would be, to say the least, lame i feel. You would end up juggling torpedoes back and forth until some one missed. I also feel that maybe if the tractor beam could be tied into the shields in an inverse setting perhaps then you could get a Torpedo Dampening Setting added to your shields. To completely stop a torpedo should not be allowed, but if you can just slow it down might be that could be OK right?
Note: this may not be practical usage of the tractor beam if torpedo weapons don't follow conventional projectile damage Speed at which the projectile is moving directly Correlates the amount of damage.
I am really trying determine tom_riker01 response do to his choice of words and level of enthusiasm and respect and knowledge of the star trek cannon.
This should not deter anyone from replying to my idea i just thought i should state my reason of posting.

[tom_riker01]

There was an old star trek game, I think it was one of the first star trek: armada's that allowed you to use a tractor beam to stop incoming torpedoes. I really didn't want to see that incorporated into this game.

Also in Starfleet academy, another old game, when you wanted to target a specific system on an enemy ship, if it was in your tractor beam, the beam would re-orient the enemy vessel allowing you to pummel that system. I think that could be useful, but only feasible once the enemy vessel's engines are off-line and you're trying to limit it's field of fire.

I just think the tractor beam should either be set to push things or pull them, allowing a captain to use the beam in combat as they see fit. Pulling an enemy ship will make it more difficult for it to escape, and if its engines are damaged it may not be able to overpower the tractor beam. But if someone is trying to ram you, and you happen to have your tractor beam set to repel, you may be able to knock the enemy ship off course just enough to avoid a collision, or at least turn a head on collision into a glancing blow. (I.e. TNG Cause and effect.)

I hope that helped.

[Powerhelm]

I highly doubt the tech is there to allow for truely strategic useage of the tractor beam. It'll probably be a pre-programmed "power" just like so many other things functioning in one generic way unless a specific mission requires it to function differently.

I'd love to use a defensive tractor beam setup and be able to lock onto a ship and divert it's fire (ala DS9 Way of the Warrior(?)) or perhaps even use them to catch or detonate torpedoes or suicide craft...