Point Defense systems?

[Kitharia]

Dunno why I woke up thinking about this, but I did! Two of the Star Trekky games I've played had a torpedo point defense system, they were Star Trek Armarda 2 and Star Trek Elite Force 2. Armarda 2 had it as a system/ability on the Federation Nebula class science ship, whereas in Elite Force 2 it was a player controlled cannon on the underbelly of a Soverign (and generally badly designed at that).

Would this be a possible system upgrade / customisation option for specific ships, ya think? Uses a set (and decently high) amount of power to have a %chance, 25, 50, maybe even 100, to neutralize x number of torpedos while active. It could have a set time it can be active too, less it 'overheat' or 'overload', same for a 'cooldown'. Mebbe it would be a 'buff' to beam weapons while active, limiting the currently 'buffed' weapon port to being near-useless for anything else?

I dunno what other limitations it could have...maybe only work against some torpedos types? Various marks of the equipment give greater general usage and takedown ability, or reduce the penality of weapon port effectiveness against other targets? Would it be limited to purely 'tactical' ships, or to smaller speedier ones (like Soverign or Akira)? Could it even be applicable for da Klingon ships?

Me curious!

[Than]

well the problem is not having counter measure system, the problem is the IP and the time and knowledge of the author of military systems.

I mean in TNG you dont see them ever put on space suit, even though they had missions that did need it (budget perhaps?)
Anyway we have phalanx systems to shoot down incoming missiles on boats today, also have anti missile, missile system etc.
I dont see why you cant tie a proximity target detetor to the phaser array to shoot down incoming warheads (dont need high yield beam for that)
However the authors of ST seems to have had a very narrow view of "proper" offensive and defesive systems, i mean in some degree playing/watching/reading Trek is like watching some early 1900 naval story with shields and outer space in stead of water and steam.
So there you have it, and not much to do about it.

[marscentral]

I see no reason why they shouldn't be included. Granted, they're not mentioned in canon, but if we stick to just canon the weapon selections might be a bit limited.

[Sumoben]

I bet these will be limited to certain ships, and with an extremely skilled tactical officer, or a secondary tactical officer assigned to only using these systems. Most likely they will be low powered phaser banks, because in 40 years, I'm sure torpedo technology has improved, including its tracking ability, and shields. However its shields are usually only enough to contain the matter/antimatter reaction while flying at high subwarp or warp speeds, until it hits its target.

[Alluvian_Est-Endrati]

It all depends what you consider to be a part of the Canon. The Nebula-class (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Nebula_class) ships were equipped with Point Defense Phasers (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Point_defense_phaser). :D

[ajaco3025]

A counter to that could be included in an ECM Jamming device. While it disrupts your weapon lock-on it also messes up your anti-defense system targeting array.

[Sumoben]

A counter to that could be included in an ECM Jamming device. While it disrupts your weapon lock-on it also messes up your anti-defense system targeting array.

I'm pretty sure that there are way too many types of sensors to find an ECM capable enough to be effective against all ships, and even then, I'm sure ops will find a way around it.

[Taran_Tatsuuchi]

You made me dig out generations for this ^_^

In generations they were talking about shooting down a probe.
It was said it would take the probe 11 seconds to reach the sun and without a point of origin it would take between 8 and 15 seconds to lock on...

Assuming that they could lock on faster if they knew the point of origin the matter would be how fast the torpedo traveled and the distance to the ship...

Personally at closer ranges I'd think it unlikely to be able to intercept them, I could see the possibility at longer ranges though.

[Sumoben]

You made me dig out generations for this ^_^

In generations they were talking about shooting down a probe.
It was said it would take the probe 11 seconds to reach the sun and without a point of origin it would take between 8 and 15 seconds to lock on...

Assuming that they could lock on faster if they knew the point of origin the matter would be how fast the torpedo traveled and the distance to the ship...

Personally at closer ranges I'd think it unlikely to be able to intercept them, I could see the possibility at longer ranges though.

Well, if on Voyager they can create a Photonic Shockwave by blowing up a torpedo with a phaser shot, I'm sure if they can track the torpedo they can shoot it down, maybe not all of them, but at least some of them to prevent some damage.

[GMQue]

Hmm, I can't personally see the need for point defense systems when most starships have shielding and ablative armour. I'm also sure if your engineers are smart enough they could develop directed deflector shields or even repulsor beams ala Wesley Crusher...

[Than]

It all depends what you consider to be a part of the Canon. The Nebula-class (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Nebula_class) ships were equipped with Point Defense Phasers (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Point_defense_phaser). :D


Now there is a juicy bit of info as it opens up for point defence systems across the board, good catch:)

[DerManiac]

I don't think that will be possible, considering how all the MMO games handle attacks (especially ranged attacks). In all the other MMO games, projectiles and beams don't really have a specific position in space. What we see are merely graphics created on client side, while the server determines whether the shot hit it's targets based on skills and some random influence. That is why sometimes it looks like you hit the target directly, while the game tells you it missed. It would be hard shooting something down that even the server doesn't know where it is..

Except you are talking about some rare scripted instances in the episodic content.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Taran_Tatsuuchi]

Well, if on Voyager they can create a Photonic Shockwave by blowing up a torpedo with a phaser shot, I'm sure if they can track the torpedo they can shoot it down, maybe not all of them, but at least some of them to prevent some damage.

Well it would be much easier to track your own torpedo since you already know where it's going XD

[marscentral]

Canon is considered to be anything from the TV or films. The Nebula class from Armada 2 is therefore not canon and may well be copyright of the game's creators. That doesn't rule out point defence, as has been mentioned, it is a part of modern tech. The Andromeda Ascendant also had them.

[Azurian]

They aren't exclusive to the Armada series, let's not forget they were used in SFC (think SFC2 had them too).

[Kitharia]

Stupid thing, I so saw the red thumbs down thing as a friggin' QUESTION MARK when I first made the post...anyway...

There are many ways you could possibly implement it (though server-client stuff I've no idea about), and a fair few reasons why it might be wanted, someone said why would it be needed. Dunno if it'll happen ingame, but what if a hostile fired at an almost dead ally, or a station, orrr a planet! You've got time to stop the enemy, but not before it fires the torpedo. With the system it could be stopped. With stronger shields and hulls comes stronger torpedos. What if ya shields are low but the enemy has no pulse / beam weapons. You could stop its torpys with the system, without it you'd maybe get beaten!

There are loads of ways it could be done. Bridge crew variations, and their skill, maybe power requirements and / or specific subsystems (like a very skilled tactical, with a skilled science, and require a high-end sensor array), as well as the possiblities I said in the thread start.

Whats better, a torpedo that hits you, or one you shoot down?

[Manx]

I could see Fed ships needing them as a carrier countermeasure. Typical phaser arrays don't seem to have a high enough rate of fire to deal with fighter swarms (assuming carriers will be big enough that 'swarms' is an appropriate term).

Something like we saw in Nemesis, with each emitter in the array firing independently; but with aiming instead of just tracking fire across a set arc.

Suppose it could be a targeting system upgrade or something.

[indigowhale345]

Well I can't say I would like to see this myself.

One point I don't think people consider is how point defense type systems would hurt the idea of smaller, more maneuverable ships being able to dodge fire from larger ships. If a torpedo is like a chunk of meat from a taco, and a fast maneuverable ship like the Defiant is the taco, why would a ship that can hit that faster, smaller, tiny chunk of meat have any trouble hitting the taco itself? That could really throw off the balance between large and small ships.


Now that said, point defense could work if it was limited in its deployment. If there was one class or tier of ship that specialized in anti-torpedo, anti-fighter, and anti-smaller ship warfare, then that ship could be the bane of the small stuff while the small stuff is still pretty effective against most other ships.

But I think its a balance issue, which is more important than a canon issue considering they are making a game here.

[Loekii]

The problem with the flying taco theory is that fighters were easily dealt with by larger ships, so the defiant was not nimbly 'dodging fire', but rather was getting into positions quickly -- ie out of firing arcs, staying on a downed shield, etc.

As to point defense, I like the idea, provided it takes a weapon slot - ie you have to give up a torp launcher to equip a pds in its place.

[hustlecore]

[QUOTE=Kitharia;395995]Dunno why I woke up thinking about this, but I did! Two of the Star Trekky games I've played had a torpedo point defense system, they were Star Trek Armarda 2 and Star Trek Elite Force 2. Armarda 2 had it as a system/ability on the Federation Nebula class science ship, whereas in Elite Force 2 it was a player controlled cannon on the underbelly of a Soverign (and generally badly designed at that).

Would this be a possible system upgrade / customisation option for specific ships, ya think? Uses a set (and decently high) amount of power to have a %chance, 25, 50, maybe even 100, to neutralize x number of torpedos while active. It could have a set time it can be active too, less it 'overheat' or 'overload', same for a 'cooldown'. Mebbe it would be a 'buff' to beam weapons while active, limiting the currently 'buffed' weapon port to being near-useless for anything else?

I dunno what other limitations it could have...maybe only work against some torpedos types? Various marks of the equipment give greater general usage and takedown ability, or reduce the penality of weapon port effectiveness against other targets? Would it be limited to purely 'tactical' ships, or to smaller speedier ones (like Soverign or Akira)? Could it even be applicable for da Klingon ships?

Me curious![/QUOTE


they also had this in all of the starfeet command games

[Kitharia]

If a torpedo is like a chunk of meat from a taco, and a fast maneuverable ship like the Defiant is the taco, why would a ship that can hit that faster, smaller, tiny chunk of meat have any trouble hitting the taco itself? That could really throw off the balance between large and small ships.
Thats why I mentioned about a penality vs ANYTHING else the beam weapon is used against. Also I don't think torpedos are going to have decently powerful shielding + evasive maneovuring

As to point defense, I like the idea, provided it takes a weapon slot - ie you have to give up a torp launcher to equip a pds in its place.
Taking an entire weapon slot could be prohibitive but certainly functional...I was thinking more it converts an active beam weapon while active, but has an 'arming' and 'disarming' timer to prevent it being abused / spammed.

[hustlecore]

I see no reason why they shouldn't be included. Granted, they're not mentioned in canon, but if we stick to just canon the weapon selections might be a bit limited.

i completely agree and i dont think this game should stick to just canon if they do it will be nothing less than a failed trek game. they need to be practical while keeping it trek there are things that have to be there for instances in the military if we have it today we should have some form of HIGHLY AND I DO MEAN HIGHLY advanced version of it in sto be creative and look to different sources including the military for inspiration