Covert Ops/Spying

[Wyrven]

I have tried to find any hints of this topic in other threads but with no success.
So my question is this;
Will there be oportunties in STO for Covert Ops or Spying as part of the game play. Some of the more interesting Trek shows involved covert missions.
I for one would like to see this somehow not only in the PvE enviroment but used in a PvP environment.
For an example sitting in a cloaked ship listening to enemy chat. Stealing tech from another fleet.
Or sabatoging another fleets assets. All could have an aspect of game play.
Hopefully there are others out there that share my opinon, so let me hear from ya.

[Welsh_Knight]

I have tried to find any hints of this topic in other threads but with no success.
So my question is this;
Will there be oportunties in STO for Covert Ops or Spying as part of the game play. Some of the more interesting Trek shows involved covert missions.
I for one would like to see this somehow not only in the PvE enviroment but used in a PvP environment.
For an example sitting in a cloaked ship listening to enemy chat. Stealing tech from another fleet.
Or sabatoging another fleets assets. All could have an aspect of game play.
Hopefully there are others out there that share my opinon, so let me hear from ya.

I've been hoping for covert ops./spying/ spook work stuff for a while - and I know i'm not the only one - someone made a thread the other day about Section 31 - and there was a decent amount of support for the idea as I remember. can you imagine sitting in a ship with everything but sensor shut down recording chatter for an enemy faction and then turning that data over to a Section 31 spook in a San Fransisco back alley? Or even better - the idea of a dead drop for information in space - just drop a package out the airlock in open space and have another ship pick it up an hour later. the possibilities are endless.

[Moryan_Sorg]

I've been hoping for covert ops./spying/ spook work stuff for a while - and I know i'm not the only one - someone made a thread the other day about Section 31 - and there was a decent amount of support for the idea as I remember. can you imagine sitting in a ship with everything but sensor shut down recording chatter for an enemy faction and then turning that data over to a Section 31 spook in a San Fransisco back alley? Or even better - the idea of a dead drop for information in space - just drop a package out the airlock in open space and have another ship pick it up an hour later. the possibilities are endless.

Ha! awesome. Dude, this game could be so sweet. I really hope they have a covert system, maybe even allow for temporary cosmetic class changes.

Maybe we could commandeer an enemy vessel that may be a bit out of date into the neutral zone:

"Bah! look at that dude with his broke ass ship"
Me: "Ummm, don't mind me...." Haha, but seriously I really like the spy idea.

[Ahsoka]

I guess back stabbing is now a part of the MMO culture.

So much for the white hat Federation way of doing things

[Moryan_Sorg]

I guess back stabbing is now a part of the MMO culture.

So much for the white hat Federation way of doing things

Spying has been part of the federation since Kirk stole the Romulan cloaking device, what are you talking about?

[angusnubangus]

I agree, It would be cool if this was in the game:D

[Urantia]

What would be even more cool is if you were clever enough to not need game mechanics to do your job.

[Prospero]

Ingame spying would be great, but people who take it outside of the game are pretty pathetic, such as joining a fleet pretending to be someone your not.

[Urantia]

Ingame spying would be great, but people who take it outside of the game are pretty pathetic, such as joining a fleet pretending to be someone your not.

I am all for ethical gameplay myself...and will likely never join a fleet anyways...instead floating between them helping my faction in general. However, I take no issue with players being clever and using psychological warfare...not sure what you mean by "outside the game"...but in the game anything goes. Players whom fancy themselves as tactical players must always consider whom they are interacting with, and how much mental energy they wish to invest in them.

I would expect nothing less of a Klingon...especially toward other Klingons. Hell I will be playing as Starfleet...but will still be ever watchful of the psychology of whom I invest my trust in. It really is not too hard to detect most.

[Wyrven]

I guess back stabbing is now a part of the MMO culture.

So much for the white hat Federation way of doing things

I hate to tell you this but good intel keeps people alive in the real world. It may turn your white hat grey but intelligence gathering and counter intellegence have been present through out the Trek series.

I can see alot of pluses to this aspect of game play, both in PvE and PvP. Although it it probabely lean a little more towards the PvE side. And be very much enjoyed by those that follow a story line.
Remember this is going to be set in a war time setting espionage is apart of war.

[Saladin_Class]

It that Why The USAs network is being dismantled?

Living proof the world does not need spying.

If it was good, we would use it.

[Urantia]

It that Why The USAs network is being dismantled?

Living proof the world does not need spying.

If it was good, we would use it.

Not sure where you got your intelligence...methods may be changing (evolving) but there is still spying and covert operations. As a matter of fact you are being watched right now :cool:.

[Hagon]

I am all for ethical gameplay myself...and will likely never join a fleet anyways...instead floating between them helping my faction in general. However, I take no issue with players being clever and using psychological warfare...not sure what you mean by "outside the game"...but in the game anything goes. Players whom fancy themselves as tactical players must always consider whom they are interacting with, and how much mental energy they wish to invest in them.

I would expect nothing less of a Klingon...especially toward other Klingons. Hell I will be playing as Starfleet...but will still be ever watchful of the psychology of whom I invest my trust in. It really is not too hard to detect most.Well he did give a prime example of the sort of thing he was talking about. That's the kind of out of game stuff that's pathetic. If people need to cheat and lie like that they should just maybe consider putting these games aside, as they're clearly of unhealthy mind, and should spend their time and money on therapy.

[Para199x]

Think you all forgot about the almost entirely white hatted covert missions, gathering intel on a species before making first contact.

[Urantia]

Well he did give a prime example of the sort of thing he was talking about. That's the kind of out of game stuff that's pathetic. If people need to cheat and lie like that they should just maybe consider putting these games aside, as they're clearly of unhealthy mind, and should spend their time and money on therapy.

I guess I misunderstood...fleet forum drama then? But aye it is pathetic when people play mind games...but it only upsets me when it is in the real world with real lives...not in a game or on a forum. Ideally everyone would act ethically and with a sense of decorum...and I have seen it from very few here, but that is to be expected. Not sure if said drama had any impact on you or your fleet, but I would expect better of you and your senses.

[Cormoran]

I'm all for spying and covert ops, just so long as it's fun and it doesn't effect other players directly. There's plenty of PvE spying missions that can be carried out and be enjoyable, heck if it's done right it could even be some form of competative PvE for the PvP areas.

I don't want it to be a glorified griefing tool as some previous threads on this subject have seemed to want though.

[Trsmash]

Sounds like a great excuse for me to use my trusty Interphase Cloak ^_^

[Wardog00]

The spying missions would be fun for a PvE mission. I would like to see Black-ops as well taking out a Admiral or kidnapping an enemy for some reason or another. Section 31 type stuff mixed with MACO style. The old game Star Trek: Away Team was about a Star Fleet speacial ops team and was pretty fun.

Just an Idea.

[TheLoner]

Then you haven't Heard of the SHADOs I guess thats a Good thing

[EbonyBlade]

Well you won't see me on any Covert Operations! Just like you won't see me when I kill the entire Klingon High Counsel. It will look like an accident.:D

[Wyrven]

Think you all forgot about the almost entirely white hatted covert missions, gathering intel on a species before making first contact.

An excellent point! Not all covert ops are designed with hostile intent.
I for one agree that it would be best to know that the locals dont want to eat you before you decide to say Hi!:D

[Loekii]

I'm all for spying and covert ops, just so long as it's fun and it doesn't effect other players directly. There's plenty of PvE spying missions that can be carried out and be enjoyable, heck if it's done right it could even be some form of competative PvE for the PvP areas.

I don't want it to be a glorified griefing tool as some previous threads on this subject have seemed to want though.

I agree. Keep it PvE.

I think it would be interesting to see an episode or more, where you are Surgically altered for a the instance, to look like a member of the opposing faction, and you basically fool the Enemy Npcs. There should be some constant risk of getting caught, so you have to follow a specific path, and in the end you retrieve the data, return to your fleet, get turned back and are rewarded.

[Samodelkin]

I would like to see the elements of stealth, disguises, spying, and assassination in this game. More fun than the "cowboy shootout" most Sci-Fi MMOs offer.

[whatinblueblazes]

Subterfuge and clandestine operations have frequently been an undercurrent to the proud white hat of Starfleet-- an often unacknowledged, somewhat distasteful but necessary part of an officer's life in times of war or beyond the Federation's borders. I think it would be an awesome game mechanic, whether PvE or PvP.

[Wyrven]

I would like to see the elements of stealth, disguises, spying, and assassination in this game. More fun than the "cowboy shootout" most Sci-Fi MMOs offer.

I think errr am hopiing that with some of the cyrpticaly little information that has been put out by Cryptic (pardon the play on words) that with some of the "Away Missions" that some will envole elements of covert play. Granted the more I think about this the more I believe that it will have to be limited to PvE play. To many ways for some to get all upset in a PvP environment. Heaven forbid one faction steal another factions starship plans by spying in PvP. Just an example to make my point. Still this could be really fun and lend an exciting twist to game play that lets face it, lacking in all the others.

[Moryan_Sorg]

I think errr am hopiing that with some of the cyrpticaly little information that has been put out by Cryptic (pardon the play on words) that with some of the "Away Missions" that some will envole elements of covert play. Granted the more I think about this the more I believe that it will have to be limited to PvE play. To many ways for some to get all upset in a PvP environment. Heaven forbid one faction steal another factions starship plans by spying in PvP. Just an example to make my point. Still this could be really fun and lend an exciting twist to game play that lets face it, lacking in all the others.

Meh, as long as the spying is kept within the mission, like mission tactics or tech found withink the mission, it should be a good time.

Think, you just find a new piece of tech on a planet, go up to your ship to use it on a klingon vessel that approaches, but wait! They have it too, and have planned a way to defend against it! Bah!

[Commodore_Rook]

Well, remember, covert op is NOT always about spying on the enemy. Many times have the landing parties disgusied themselves to "blend in" with the local population to study and observe the culture. Remember, seek out strange new life!

[Urantia]

I think errr am hopiing that with some of the cyrpticaly little information that has been put out by Cryptic (pardon the play on words) that with some of the "Away Missions" that some will envole elements of covert play. Granted the more I think about this the more I believe that it will have to be limited to PvE play. To many ways for some to get all upset in a PvP environment. Heaven forbid one faction steal another factions starship plans by spying in PvP. Just an example to make my point. Still this could be really fun and lend an exciting twist to game play that lets face it, lacking in all the others.

Aye, but prepare mentally (you have plenty of time...if any is needed) for psychological warfare in PvP, fleet drama, and good old fashioned backstabbing....and straight up lying. No matter what technology they allow for PvP...people will intent their own methods of spying and covert operations. While you or I (or many others) may not condone this behavior, it will exist. And yes I know....I am stating the obvious. Ideally the devs would program the game to discourage/minimize this, but I doubt it.

[Roguee]

"Out-of-game"...

Some lowlife getting on a chat program/character for one faction and passing information to their "chosen" faction for purposes of screwing up what the spied upon are trying to do. There's no mechanic or ingame route to end this kind of thing.

"Legal" ingame spying would have a "legal" ingame mechanic of stopping it or curtailing activities (anti-spy "programs", agents, etc.). "Out-of-game" spying should get people banned for life from every game a company makes or will make.

[Urantia]

"Out-of-game"...

Some lowlife getting on a chat program/character for one faction and passing information to their "chosen" faction for purposes of screwing up what the spied upon are trying to do. There's no mechanic or ingame route to end this kind of thing.

"Legal" ingame spying would have a "legal" ingame mechanic of stopping it or curtailing activities (anti-spy "programs", agents, etc.). "Out-of-game" spying should get people banned for life from every game a company makes or will make.

My only concern is having to hear about it ad nauseum (like the geese squaking on the lake behind me at the moment)...since it is a given it will happen. The only questions are how soon after launch and how frequent? There are certain things the devs can do to never let it take place, but most would not wish it. I will not waste your time mentioning them.

[Duras]

I thought the below notice would help a few possible members protect their clan/house/fleets reputation from possible activitie such as this.

To keep the 'Guilty by Association Brigade' from my door...

House of Duras - Notice and Disclaimer...

You are hearby informed that this house does not or will not tollerate the activity known as spying or espionage, Whether it is OOC or IC.
If you are found to be spying or comitting the act of espionage, you will be removed from house membership, you will be named and shamed upon the main STO forums and also within the universe of STO game server. Your actions will not reflect upon this house as you would be acting against house ruleing and the house has no responsibility for your actions.

However. In the interests of ROLEPLAY ( and only IC ROLEPLAY ), you may aquire information at your own risk for the advancement of yourself and this house through any means neccesary, other than the above notice.

I think it is neccesary for clarification and standing, IMHO.

[Urantia]

I thought the below notice would help a few possible members protect their clan/house/fleets reputation from possible activitie such as this.

To keep the 'Guilty by Association Brigade' from my door...

House of Duras - Notice and Disclaimer...

You are hearby informed that this house does not or will not tollerate the activity known as spying or espionage, Whether it is OOC or IC.
If you are found to be spying or comitting the act of espionage, you will be removed from house membership, you will be named and shamed upon the main STO forums and also within the universe of STO game server. Your actions will not reflect upon this house as you would be acting against house ruleing and the house has no responsibility for your actions.

However. In the interests of ROLEPLAY ( and only IC ROLEPLAY ), you may aquire information at your own risk for the advancement of yourself and this house through any means neccesary, other than the above notice.

I think it is neccesary for clarification and standing, IMHO.

Good luck with that. Well intentioned even if it slightly contradicts itself (under the guise of RP)...so it is okay to take part in these activities for your House (or themselves)...as long as the player claims to be RPing? I get your meaning beyond the mere words...but what if a player decides to take the "risk," "IC RP" of course, will you defend them when others call them out?

And what about the pure liars that will claim your House (or one of its members) did something, but you cannot prove otherwise (other than denying it)? Semantics I realize...but I am not confident disclaimers will work. No matter what you do there will be at least one member that employs some form of chicanery.

I do agree players policing players is the best option...even though it will most likely not dampen it too much. Moreover, I agree that if fleets and Houses have very strict recruiting rules...it can reduce this kind of behavior. However, I would be lying if I did not admit I expect to see this behavior no matter what happens...nor am I against these types of behaviors...in any way, shape, or form. I can only say I will not participate in them as they violate my own ethical calculus.

Academically speaking, it will be fascinating to see how these dynamics evolve...even if they are usually predictable. I will also be on the look out for the real sociopaths that threaten more than a "guilds" reputation...but the health of the game in general.

[Dext]

I have tried to find any hints of this topic in other threads but with no success.
So my question is this;
Will there be oportunties in STO for Covert Ops or Spying as part of the game play. Some of the more interesting Trek shows involved covert missions.
I for one would like to see this somehow not only in the PvE enviroment but used in a PvP environment.
For an example sitting in a cloaked ship listening to enemy chat. Stealing tech from another fleet.
Or sabatoging another fleets assets. All could have an aspect of game play.
Hopefully there are others out there that share my opinon, so let me hear from ya.

Would be cool to have in game. As far as we know they have not told us nothing on this but do not see why they would not have something like this in the game.

[Duras]

Urantia, if proof positive is supplied, they'd be punished for breaking house ruleing. Given proof absolute mind you, because I have no intention of sacrificing any members to speculation or hearsay from others. Protection of house and member reputation, is of paramount importance.

As for any other explanation...
I have no comment.

(Courts are bogged down for years with such contradictions.)

[Avatar_of_Champions]

Spying should be PvE only. The PVP should be "My team vs. yours", Redskins vs. Cowboys, Jessie Owens vs the Nazis., Mohammad Ali vs George Foreman.

If you want to be a spy and a heel, why not go play EVE? They encourage that kind of thing there. And while star trek has always had their moments of 'we are sneaky", Gene Rodenbery hated the idea of the Federation spying/cloaking:
Gene Roddenberry indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology.
Link (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Cloaking_device)


And on both sides the PCs are supposed to be hereos, and as Gene said:
"Our heroes don't sneak around"

[Krix]

Spying should be PvE only. :

I think spying will be a part of pve and missions. All i say is section 31 , tal shiar,v shar, orion syndicate and obsidian something .....

[Sumoben]

I think spying will be a part of pve and missions. All i say is section 31 , tal shiar,v shar, orion syndicate and obsidian something .....

Tal Shiar, and the Obsidian Order. The Orion Syndicate is more of a pirate group than intelligence.

And as far as Starfleet and the Federation is concerned, Section 31 doesn't exist.

[Wyrven]

Tal Shiar, and the Obsidian Order. The Orion Syndicate is more of a pirate group than intelligence.

And as far as Starfleet and the Federation is concerned, Section 31 doesn't exist.

HA! All factions say thier clandestine organizations do not exsist. And as far as the noble Klingon touting house rules against spying. I have two comments, 1. Of course a spy getting caught would openly shame and dishonor the house. So go figure the house would OPENLY oppsose such tatics. 2. This one is in the form of a question, How did the Klingons learn about Genesis without spys hmmmm?

[Duras]

How did the Klingons learn about Genesis without spys hmmmm?

SSHhhh.... :rolleyes:

[Wyrven]

SSHhhh.... :rolleyes:

Interesting name for a clan supposedly opposed to covert/spying. How many time have the Duras got caught in bed with the Romulans hmmmmmmmmm?:cool:

[Duras]

Errrmm... I believe this thread is about Covert Ops / Spying, not charactor Slur / infrequent one night stands... :D

I hope theres Opps mission and if you fail, the whole STO storyline could change...

[Wyrven]

Errrmm... I believe this thread is about Covert Ops / Spying, not charactor Slur / infrequent one night stands... :D

I hope theres Opps mission and if you fail, the whole STO storyline could change...

Oh I like that idea! The question it obviously brings is how to deal with multiple people on the same mission.
One fails, another does not and so on.

[Duras]

Cryptic could spy, no sorry, monitor us. And knowing the location of our fleets could, within a PvP zone, send a written communication to one of enemy fleet leaders ship who was requesting a group PvP mission, ordering them to intercept.
It would keep PvPers happy I think.

[Wyrven]

Cryptic could spy, no sorry, monitor us. And knowing the location of our fleets could, within a PvP zone, send a written communication to one of enemy fleet leaders ship who was requesting a group PvP mission, ordering them to intercept.
It would keep PvPers happy I think.

Sorry, I have been gone for a week...sometimes work sucks but it pays the cable bill which keeps the internet going.
Interesting idea Duras, it does have some merit for the PvP'rs...spice things up a bit:cool:

[Flatfingers]

I think Starfleet officers typically wouldn't do it.

That said, I completely support the idea of clandestine operations, and I hope there will be features (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=244941) to support that kind of gameplay.

Let's put it like this: it's likely that some day Cryptic will allow players to choose the Romulan Star Empire as their active faction...

...and can you imagine it being any fun to play a Romulan without abilities and opportunities to run covert ops?

:cool:

--Flatfingers

[Wyrven]

I think Starfleet officers typically wouldn't do it.

That said, I completely support the idea of clandestine operations, and I hope there will be features (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=244941) to support that kind of gameplay.

Let's put it like this: it's likely that some day Cryptic will allow players to choose the Romulan Star Empire as their active faction...

...and can you imagine it being any fun to play a Romulan without abilities and opportunities to run covert ops?

:cool:

--Flatfingers

Absolutely not!! And I honestly cant imagine a Star Fleet without some sort of intellegence org either. Lets face it, Star Fleet overall may be grand and noble, but it still needs covert ops if even for self preservation.
But yes the idea of a Romulan without being on the shady side of things would be quite boring in my opinon, not to mention out of racial charicter

[cenglandjr]

I have tried to find any hints of this topic in other threads but with no success.
So my question is this;
Will there be oportunties in STO for Covert Ops or Spying as part of the game play. Some of the more interesting Trek shows involved covert missions.
I for one would like to see this somehow not only in the PvE enviroment but used in a PvP environment.
For an example sitting in a cloaked ship listening to enemy chat. Stealing tech from another fleet.
Or sabatoging another fleets assets. All could have an aspect of game play.
Hopefully there are others out there that share my opinon, so let me hear from ya.

you're a trouble maker. I hope your account gets locked for being like this. It's players like you that make ppl not want to play. You get off by causing others pain and suffering and it makes you feel good about yourself. go back to your hole and never come out.

[0wl]

I sincerely hope it will be possible to "mask" yourselves in more ways than one, and yes covert operations are among that as well!

Let's hope so...

[Hanzomon]

you're a trouble maker.


Pot meets Kettle (www.petitiononline.com/saynols1/petition.html)

[Profedius]

There could be missions to complete that would provide intelligence for your faction and it would not take someone setting at Cryptic watching player movements. All you have to do is have a quest that members of your faction can take and if it is completed successfully then members of your faction could for a set amount of time in a set area see the movement of the other faction’s ships. You could even get more involved and alert the other faction when the opposing faction is on one of these quests thus providing the possibility of preventing them from success.