Privateering and Civilian Status

[JacobFlowers]

I know Cryptic has already made mention that "privateering" won't be available at launch. I however, would be comfortable with them delaying the release, so that they could consider having this done. (put your torches down fellow trekkies!)

There has been a lot of talk lately about Factions and alignment, and this and that, and the other. All having to do with what YOU CHOOSE to do in STO and who you choose to be.

Right now we have two Factions at launch ( :( ). We can choose to specialize (i.e. medical, command, engineering, tactical, perhaps others).

So yes... I can choose to graduate from the Starfleet Corp of Engineers Academy. Or from Starfleet medical. Now, I have command of my own ship. Can I also not opt to simply be a "Civillian" of the federation, and be a trader, resource gatherer, etc. etc. etc. In the Star Trek Universe... there are Civvies out there.

How cool would it be to send out a distress call, and thus hopefully alerting a nearby federation Starship if I was caught by klingons or something. :-D

[topekaguy1988]

Why do you keep wanting them to delay STO's release?

[CaptainQuirk]

How cool would it be to send out a distress call, and thus hopefully alerting a nearby federation Starship if I was caught by klingons or something. :-D

Not as cool as being in command of a federation starship and being able to deal with the klingons myself rather than having to wait on some other player who likely will send you a /tell saying... "Sorry dude... Me and my guildies are making a run on the sector 656 klingon outpost... third time this week and we finally have a chance at winning... good luck..."

What they won't realize is that I will be cloaked and waiting for them at 656...

[Welsh_Knight]

Why do you keep wanting them to delay STO's release?

maybe he's a spy from Blizzard and they're afraid we'll steal all their users so his plan is to get Cryptic to delay so long that we "loose interest" :p (joking)

[jhem99]

The enterprise will hunt you (privateering is outlawed) down and take you a federation penal colony, or the Klingons will deport you one of their penal colonies, where you will suffer till the end of your natural life.

[Kenderoth]

The enterprise will hunt you (privateering is outlawed) down and take you a federation penal colony, or the Klingons will deport you one of their penal colonies, where you will suffer till the end of your natural life.

maybe they can delay the game to put that feature in too. You spend a bunch of game hours in a ball and chain smashing rock in a repetitive button masher.

[Silverspar]

Not as cool as being in command of a federation starship and being able to deal with the klingons myself rather than having to wait on some other player who likely will send you a /tell saying... "Sorry dude... Me and my guildies are making a run on the sector 656 klingon outpost... third time this week and we finally have a chance at winning... good luck..."

What they won't realize is that I will be cloaked and waiting for them at 656...

Oh so your little Raptor versus an entire fleet. That should be interesting battle... might last five seconds, with your wreck attempting to hit warp :p

[1MGSIX]

Why do you keep wanting them to delay STO's release?

Because when he logs on he wants as complete a Star Trek expierience as he can get. As close as he can get to freedom on a Star Trek universe as he can be. Not an unreasonable request. I think we all do. Besides, they already know the release date so nothing you or I do will change that. Basically, that was a question not meant to be answered. It was simply a flame in question form.

[Silverspar]

Because when he logs on he wants as complete a Star Trek expierience as he can get. As close as he can get to freedom on a Star Trek universe as he can be. Not an unreasonable request. I think we all do. Besides, they already know the release date so nothing you or I will change that. Basically, that was a question not meant to be answered. It was simply a flame in question form.

Actually it is unreasonable, because of Cryptic delayed the release for every request ofr a complete experience to put in everything possible, the game would not even come out in three years, unless you want really crappy experience.

[1MGSIX]

Actually it is unreasonable, because of Cryptic delayed the release for every request ofr a complete experience to put in everything possible, the game would not even come out in three years, unless you want really crappy experience.



Thats why I put this in there.

Besides, they already know the release date so nothing you or I do will change that.

[CaptainQuirk]

Oh so your little Raptor versus an entire fleet. That should be interesting battle... might last five seconds, with your wreck attempting to hit warp :p

It is the aspiration of every Klingon Warrior to die in glorious battle. And what battle would be more glorious than a single bird of prey against a fleet? Songs will be sung of such a deed. And when I respawn, I get to do it all over again.

For the glory of the Klingon Empire!

[Welsh_Knight]

It is the aspiration of every Klingon Warrior to die in glorious battle. And what battle would be more glorious than a single bird of prey against a fleet? Songs will be sung of such a deed. And when I respawn, I get to do it all over again.

For the glory of the Klingon Empire!

but how will there be songs if there are no survivors? :p

[JacobFlowers]

yeeeesh. I am disappointed with the majority of replies in this thread. Really nothing of substance at all.


Thanks for 1mgsix for giving a rather mature response.

I'm jumping ship on this thread.

peace out.

[Kenderoth]

It is the aspiration of every Klingon Warrior to die in glorious battle. And what battle would be more glorious than a single bird of prey against a fleet? Songs will be sung of such a deed. And when I respawn, I get to do it all over again.

For the glory of the Klingon Empire!

Wasn't there a DS9 episode were the Jem'Hadar were chasing the Klingons in warp and then a lone Bird of Prey droped out of warp and attacked the Jem'Hadar battle group? That'd was epic to see in STO.

[Ahsoka]

My Dad says Privateers in EVE are suicide bombers.

Why on earth (or any other world) would you want to be one of those?

[Silverspar]

Wasn't there a DS9 episode were the Jem'Hadar were chasing the Klingons in warp and then a lone Bird of Prey droped out of warp and attacked the Jem'Hadar battle group? That'd was epic to see in STO.

Actually, that was Kor, and it was a lone Bird of Prey that was chosen by the fleet Martok was leading to escape to inform the rest of the Klingon Empire. Needless to say, the Darja master (I think that's how it is spelled) wanted that glory. He was the traditional Klingon, the Klingon who wants to die in glorious battle, even to the point of committing needless suicide. Martok did not like him cause he felt Kor sacrificed too many warriors for his personal glory. Needless to say, Kor sacrificed himself and died for the rest of the fleet and Martok was forced to drink a bottle of blood wine in his honor and celebrate his sacrifice for the Empire.

The actor that played Kor was the same actor (aka Baltar from the original Battlestar Gallactica) who some how had been cured of the augment virus. Kor was a ruthless individual in the TOS era (which lends to the fact Klingons have exceptionally long normal life spans, if they would stop killing each other).

[Cormoran]

Whilst i'd really enjoy doing something like this, this is something that i'd see coming after Romulans. Even though i'm not a big Romulan fan, that's something i know many more fans would rather see first.

If they're not going to delay it for Romulans, they're certainly not going to delay it for privateers.

We can delay all we want, but unless we want to sit around for the next ten years doing nothing on these forums but rehashing topic after topic like the 3DRealms forums, we have to forego some of the smaller things.

[Arix]

Have you ever played the Sims?

From what I understand, MMOs are like the Sims. They release the core game, then over time, they start releasing expansions that add a lot of new features and content.

Which makes sense.

They can't include everything from the Federation and Klingon Empire, to the Romulan Star Empire, Cardassian Union, Ferengi Alliance, Tholian Assembly, Gorn Hegemony, the Borg, the Dominion, as well as privateers, merchants and civilians (etc). Not at launch!

First of all - that would probably take years to include all the content.

Secondly, what's the point of adding in so much extra content if the game itself isn't popular and no one plays it?

The idea is, they release the core game, which doesn't have a ton of extra content. Then if the game is popular, and lots of people play it, they'll start creating expansions.

And they'll wait until after the game is released - and for people to express their opinion on what needs to be added (e.g. in your case, privateers), and then release expansions most likely based on what the people want!

So, for now, just be content will playing as a Starfleet Officer, or like our friend CaptainQuirk, as a Klingon Warrior.

Also, in regards to the 'As complete a Star Trek experience as he can get' - yes, its something we all want. But is this MMO going to provide it? Probably not, and definitely not at launch. It's not a Star Trek Simulator, its not a 'live out your dreams of living in the Star Trek universe'. Its a MMO, a game, it can't live up to everyone's expectations.

They're just trying to appeal to the general public, who will want to play as Starship Captains first and foremost.

And no offence, but I'd rather play as Captain Kirk than Harry Mudd.

Also, one last thing, to Silverspar, its 'Dahar' master. ;)

[Silverspar]

People take the statement of expansion seriously. Cryptic terminology for expansion is a major patch. Generally speaking, the only expansion, that really wasn't, was City of Villains.

[osena]

Wasn't there a DS9 episode were the Jem'Hadar were chasing the Klingons in warp and then a lone Bird of Prey droped out of warp and attacked the Jem'Hadar battle group? That'd was epic to see in STO.

oh wow one lone bird of prey vs fleet of over the top fedration ships that would be fun on my part for all of one minute cos you gonn have 5 full armed ships armed to the teeth vs one dink raptor or bride of pray no challange in it and waste of photon/qauntum if you ask me

[cocoa-jin]

I know Cryptic has already made mention that "privateering" won't be available at launch. I however, would be comfortable with them delaying the release, so that they could consider having this done. (put your torches down fellow trekkies!)

There has been a lot of talk lately about Factions and alignment, and this and that, and the other. All having to do with what YOU CHOOSE to do in STO and who you choose to be.

Right now we have two Factions at launch ( :( ). We can choose to specialize (i.e. medical, command, engineering, tactical, perhaps others).

So yes... I can choose to graduate from the Starfleet Corp of Engineers Academy. Or from Starfleet medical. Now, I have command of my own ship. Can I also not opt to simply be a "Civillian" of the federation, and be a trader, resource gatherer, etc. etc. etc. In the Star Trek Universe... there are Civvies out there.

How cool would it be to send out a distress call, and thus hopefully alerting a nearby federation Starship if I was caught by klingons or something. :-D


I support the idea of civilian ranks doing civilian tasks...but they ought not use Starfleet vessels, nor sell, produce or equip Starfleet goods. There should be civilian vessels, equipment and goods. Black market trading of military grade goods or illicit civilian could be a possibilty, but should come with the appropriate consequences if caught, with factions performing active enforcement.

[osena]

I support the idea of civilian ranks doing civilian tasks...but they ought not use Starfleet vessels, nor sell, produce or equip Starfleet goods. There should be civilian vessels, equipment and goods. Black market trading of military grade goods or illicit civilian could be a possibilty, but should come with the appropriate consequences if caught, with factions performing active enforcement.

well the might get to buy out of date starfleet ships ones that got decomissioned like the USS Enterprise-A the older ships outdate and no longer deemed wrothy of serveing in starfleet the old ships the a chimp and brain dead stonner could run whit automated systeam lol

[hustlecore]

that would be amazing for you and for me because u would get saved and id be the one to save you awww man that is great i hope they think about it there would be whole player fleets dedicated to civilian defense i bet

[Saladin_Class]

Amazing how 20th century values have to be injected into the future.

I guess playing an upstanding Federation Captain,

is just too darn hard for some folk

[Hagon]

Amazing how 20th century values have to be injected into the future.

I guess playing an upstanding Federation Captain,

is just too darn hard for some folkOrrrrr too completely boring and snooooooore.........

[Saladin_Class]

Yes being good is hard

Running patrol routes, and coming to the aid of others is over rated

[cocoa-jin]

well the might get to buy out of date starfleet ships ones that got decomissioned like the USS Enterprise-A the older ships outdate and no longer deemed wrothy of serveing in starfleet the old ships the a chimp and brain dead stonner could run whit automated systeam lol

There would be so many vessels of civilian ranks that would be cheaper and better suited for civilian use. The civilian use of old military vessels would seem unlikly...just not enough utility in them for the price and mass.

The idea of privateering in them is unlikly...at least far Starfleet...its not their style to encourage and pay civilians to wage war. So the purchase of such a vessel for the purpose of profiting from combat is unlikly also.

[jbarker82]

I don't really know how easy it would be to implement a Privateer faction into the game, however a civilian military faction like the Maquis, or perhaps something like a Galactic Foreign Legion where you have any and all races under the same banner fighting for independance from some other empire or for the same cause or whatever might be quite fun. You could incorporate piracy into that as a means of survival for these people.

Just a thought .....

[marscentral]

While civilians and pirates and things are all very interesting and may be very nice down the road, they're not exactly a fundamental part of the Star Trek experience and hardly worth delaying the game for.

[JacobFlowers]

I support the idea of civilian ranks doing civilian tasks...but they ought not use Starfleet vessels, nor sell, produce or equip Starfleet goods. There should be civilian vessels, equipment and goods. Black market trading of military grade goods or illicit civilian could be a possibilty, but should come with the appropriate consequences if caught, with factions performing active enforcement.

One of the few productive posts in this thread.

Anyway. I like your ideas Cocoa

[Commodore_Rook]

I too find the idea interesting. If you don't want to be a apart of Star Fleet, become a trader or even a member of the Orion Pirate Cartell! This, I'm sure, may become an expansion down the road, along with a TOS expansion and Romulan & Cardassen expansion. Give it time!

[Samodelkin]

I would definitely play Privateer if I had the chance.

In Star Wars Galaxies, I found a semi-glitch that let me quickly get faction points; so my primary character had enough faction points for both sides to switch overt alignment at any time. I don't know if STO will let me gain the trust of both factions like SWG did, but I think it would be nice to hang out anywhere in the galaxy, smuggle things between factions, and so on. In some ways, it's better than being a captain, because you have no admiral to answer to.

But even if both factions are going to shoot privateers, I will just play Privateer and shoot at both factions. :p

[Sarile]

I like the privateering/trader/mercenary for hire idea. Hopefully it will be ingame at some point.

Live Long and Prosper

[Mjoellnir]

One of the few productive posts in this thread.

Anyway. I like your ideas Cocoa

Interesting that you only see those posts as productive that you agree with. There are simply not enough people that want to be civilians to delay the release of the game for eveybody else. And your idea has a lot of flaws.

1. Ressource-gatherers would be farmers (boring), traders would have to constantly fly the same routes (boooooring), and pirates have problems I'll explain in the next point.
2. Star Trek is not Freelancer. You can't dock at a starbase and buy the newest starfighter together with the biggest cannons if you have the credits. That means:
2.1. You are vulnerable and have absolutely no chance when attacked by those players that play in a military faction.
2.2. Piracy only works against fellow civilians who are less agressive than you (making you a griefer), NPC traders or in big groups.

Star Trek never was about civilians, it was about heroic members of Starfleet.

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based! If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform! I'm going to make this simple for you, Mr. Crusher! Either you come forward and tell Admiral Brand what really took place, or I will!"
- Jean-Luc Picard, to Cadet Wesley Crusher

Klingons are the other military faction we know the most of because of Worf.

[cocoa-jin]

Interesting that you only see those posts as productive that you agree with. There are simply not enough people that want to be civilians to delay the release of the game for eveybody else. And your idea has a lot of flaws.

1. Ressource-gatherers would be farmers (boring), traders would have to constantly fly the same routes (boooooring), and pirates have problems I'll explain in the next point.
2. Star Trek is not Freelancer. You can't dock at a starbase and buy the newest starfighter together with the biggest cannons if you have the credits. That means:
2.1. You are vulnerable and have absolutely no chance when attacked by those players that play in a military faction.
2.2. Piracy only works against fellow civilians who are less agressive than you (making you a griefer), NPC traders or in big groups.

Star Trek never was about civilians, it was about heroic members of Starfleet.

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based! If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform! I'm going to make this simple for you, Mr. Crusher! Either you come forward and tell Admiral Brand what really took place, or I will!"
- Jean-Luc Picard, to Cadet Wesley Crusher

Klingons are the other military faction we know the most of because of Worf.

Civilians have their place in the Star Trek universe, Star Trek is bigger than just Starfleet or sovereign militaries. Civilians are viable, they would certainly have a different experience than faction officers, fly civilian ships, etc, etc. The key is building a thorough system to accuratly portray the civilian experience.

If Star Trek wasnt about civilians, what were all the sides fighting and exploring for?...medals? No, it was for their families, their friends, their life after retirement. It was for the faction, the faction is a society, the society exists for and by the citizens...civilians.

So what if they have to have "boring" civilian lives, poor fire power and defenses...what do you think our job is as officers...its to go to their rescue, it reminds us and hits home why we are officers in the first place.

A well populated univers, especially civilian, is so much more immersive than one full of nothing but military officers.

[Arix]

So what if they have to have "boring" civilian lives, poor fire power and defenses...what do you think our job is as officers...its to go to their rescue, it reminds us and hits home why we are officers in the first place.

A well populated univers, especially civilian, is so much more immersive than one full of nothing but military officers.

Yes, the universe shouldn't solely be populated by military officers. And yes, it will be more immersive to have civilians.

Does that mean I want to play through a 'boring' civilian life, with poor fire power and defenses? Hell no!

The whole point of this thread is playing as a civilian.

We're not saying NPC civilians shouldn't be in the game. Or that our characters shouldn't have families and friends who aren't part of Starfleet. The focus of Star Trek is on Starfleet.

I want to play as a Starfleet officer, coming to the rescue of some privateer who got himself into trouble with Orion Pirates. Or saving millions of civilian lives from a natural disaster, or attack.

I don't want to run trade routes, battle other privateers for money, fight off pirates from raids, or have to wait to be rescued by Starfleet if I get into trouble.

And I'm betting over 90% of people playing the game, or those who intend to play the game, agree with me.

Delaying the game so that less than 10% can choose to play as civilians, or privateers, is a ridiculous idea.

[cocoa-jin]

Yes, the universe shouldn't solely be populated by military officers. And yes, it will be more immersive to have civilians.

Does that mean I want to play through a 'boring' civilian life, with poor fire power and defenses? Hell no!

The whole point of this thread is playing as a civilian.

We're not saying NPC civilians shouldn't be in the game. Or that our characters shouldn't have families and friends who aren't part of Starfleet. The focus of Star Trek is on Starfleet.

I want to play as a Starfleet officer, coming to the rescue of some privateer who got himself into trouble with Orion Pirates. Or saving millions of civilian lives from a natural disaster, or attack.

I don't want to run trade routes, battle other privateers for money, fight off pirates from raids, or have to wait to be rescued by Starfleet if I get into trouble.

And I'm betting over 90% of people playing the game, or those who intend to play the game, agree with me.

Delaying the game so that less than 10% can choose to play as civilians, or privateers, is a ridiculous idea.

some people do want to play as civilians. they may not find it boring. the population of MMO players who enjoy crafting, minning and other non-combat roles is extensive. you find it repeative, they find it fun. some people want to throw themselves to wind and sqweak out their own existance and hope they strike gold in the process....let them.

They may be willing to deal with less than powerful ships...let them. They may like running back and forth minning and transporting and selling...let them. There is place for them in the universe and its nothing new in the world of MMOs.

If you dont want to deal with these things dont...join the military and enjoy that existance.

STO doesnt have to be one or the other, there is room for both. Do your Starfleet or Klingon thing and in the process you pass these civilian types along the way...you can ignore them, help them...or if its enemy, maybe even leave them as glowing and sparking embers of twisted metal.

The Star Trek universe isnt one thing, its many perspectives and experiences...STO can be big enough to let people choose the existance they want.

Dont think for a minute you'll have to experience a civilian one just because its added in game.

[Arix]

The Star Trek universe isnt one thing, its many perspectives and experiences...STO can be big enough to let people choose the existance they want.

Dont think for a minute you'll have to experience a civilian one just because its added in game.

Look, I understand people want to do different things, and want to 'choose the existance they want'.

You seem to be ignoring the OP, who proclaimed that the game's released should be delayed so Cryptic could include Civilians and Privateers.

I'm not saying that being a Civilian, Privateer or Pirate shouldn't be an option in STO.

Simply that more people will want to be a Starfleet officer, therefore it takes preferance. STO shouldn't be delayed because a few people want to play as civilians.

Once the game is released, then you can all petition Cryptic to include Civilians. But you should also realise that other people will also want say, the Romulans, or Dominion, or Borg, to be included.

Perhaps you should go back to Page 2, and read my first post in this thread, it articulates my views on this issue much more clearly. Despite the OP's proclamation that no-one else has 'productive posts' - simply because he disagrees.

I understand, everyone wants different things from this game, and wants to be able to choose what to do.

However, the main focus of Star Trek has always been Starfleet, and the majority of people will choose to be a part of that. So again, the game's release should not be delayed to add any other 'factions' that Cryptic hasn't already said they're going to include (i.e. the Federation and Klingons).

[cocoa-jin]

my comments werent directed to you until you stated Star Trek was never about civilians. I responded that essentially everything Star Trek is about eventually boils to civilians. You begain talking about how boring civilian life would be and that you didnt want to have to do civilian stuff...I then stated how some people finf it enjoyable and you didnt have to do it if didnt want to.

That was the extent of our discussion...I responded to what you said, I didnt say anything about delaying the game, or agreeing with the OP's desire to delay the game. I merely responded to your statements that either implied or I misunderstood to suggest civilians had no place in STO.