The Path to 2409: 2385

[nhamlett]

Starfleet Command announces it has completed its re-evaluation of all of its post-Dominion War assets and resources and that it will be refocusing some ships that have been assigned to defense and diplomacy to exploration and scientific discovery.

Read More (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2385)

[Highcommander]

THANKS :) good stuff!

Well it looks like the Borg are the "ancient threat."

[Govannon_Lioncourt]

Excellent! Good read as well :)

[Silverspar]

Awesome update :) I don't exactly understand the need to resurrect Data though, but, since they've declared the movies canon and they did resurrect Data in the new Star Trek movie according to the prequel comic, I guess Cryptic can't back out on that, hehe good read though.

[SenshiBat]

Third in Que again.. how does Topeka do it.. oh news not trivia.. Thank you very much

A good policy shift. and Nice Data update.. Saves me from Filing a Habeas Corpus Brief..
i have to digest my new Predator for awhile so they do not void my Captains lic..
Cheers Vulcan Side Proud politely [make that 4th by a sec..]
[then hurts self trying to sing KD Lang's Juno Awards in Winnipeg in 2005 Performance on Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah in celebration]

[SequoiaThrone]

interesting read again! cant wait the next two months :)

[nhamlett]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

[Rekkert]

Very nice, now I see how they are moving to Star Trek XI:D

[knightofhyrule730]

Awen, this is the best update ever.

Give whoever wrote this a piece of pie!

[djnattyd]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

Just read it through again and i'll have to agree

[Paulo999]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

i liked the one with the gorn attacking the klingons :P got any secrets for species 8472 :D ?

[Krajor]

I like how they touched on some themes from "All good things" and wrapping them around the changes made in the movies.

[Angelphoenix12]

very intresting year, this time. sad to see picard retire, and the rest of the crew leave also. (but not unexpected though.) keep up the great work :), and cant wait for the biweekily timeline releases.

[RogueEnterprise]

Awesome post. Like to see the really long, meaty entries.

It's good stuff. I like the part about the Federation backing down from their anti-Borg task force... it seems like something a bureaucracy would do. =)

Sad to see the Enterprise-E crew broken up like that, especially Picard.

[knightofhyrule730]

very intresting year, this time. sad to see picard retire, and the rest of the crew leave also. (but not unexpected though.) keep up the great work :), and cant wait for the biweekily timeline releases.

ah, but having them all retire and get off the ship is genius. It allows them to be planted somewhere in the universe without having to validate why 938402384 players are trying to get aboard the ship when it's on patrol...or whatever it does in the game.

also, i place all my chips on the Enterprise class for the NX 91001

[Fvillha]

As expected Empress Donatra FTW, for the Empire. I am sure Ex-Praetor Sela has to be pretty peeved by now.:p

[Vicelance]

Nice update wonder how long the Romulan government will be in power before it's replaced. It appears that the Romulans and Remans are moving towards reunification so it seems that the Remans will be apart of the Romulan faction in an expansion unless another civil war breaks out.

Liked the mention of the Luna class so maybe we can have one in the game. I'm still waiting to hear if we can have the USS Titan's cheif medical officer's species as well (Please Cryptic put them in :D).

With the shutdown of the Anti-Borg taskforce I guess that means when they do show up in the game we won't have Voyager's Borg destroying weapons, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Can't wait for the next update.

[djnattyd]

With the shutdown of the Anti-Borg taskforce I guess that means when they do show up in the game we won't have Voyager's Borg destroying weapons, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Until you see the onscreen message pop up

"Captain, sensors are picking up a Borg vessel. Heading 090."
"Helm, set course 270 and engage at full warp"
"We're running away sir?!"
"Damn right we are!"

[iPond317]

Wow, this fantastic and by far the best timeline update in the Star Trek universe!

[INVAD3R_J]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

Completely agree Awen! Also.......PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE let the Olympic-Class be a playable ship! *crosses fingers & holds tight* :D

[Captain-Picard]

Thank you Awen.

[Veglargh]

Thanks, now only 24 more to go ;)

[fireraven]

nice update but what happened with the Klingon-Gorn situation

[whatinblueblazes]

Wow -- outstanding update. Most definitely the best Path to 2409 yet!

[The_Padre]

Awesome update :) I don't exactly understand the need to resurrect Data though, but, since they've declared the movies canon and they did resurrect Data in the new Star Trek movie according to the prequel comic, I guess Cryptic can't back out on that, hehe good read though.

That might have something to do with the Star Trek: Countdown comic, Data is shown as the captain of the Enterprise and Jean-Luc Picard is seen as an ambassador in it as well.

[juggernautxx]

Was hoping that Cryptic would use some of the recent "Destiny" trilogy for the stroy line of the game. The Typhon Pact would have been a great group to add to any expansion. I'll still be playing ,but was really hoping to see the Borg finally gone.
I do like that the Fedreration is moving to more exploratory and diplomatic missions and less combat readiness and defensive missions.

[Tylor_Liles]

okay....we're on the road to bringing back data.(will B-4 have data's capabilities?speed....,knowledge..those things...and if Data doesn't get the Big E in 2409 that isn't right okay? and for now give Capt. Riker the Big E.

make a voyager movie.....that results in the return of data...not his persona but data himself.

in 2409 data gets the Big E and LaForge is his number one.

what does everyone else think bout how i believe it should shake out???

[Startrekkin]

But his first project is to assist the team at the Soong Foundation studying the Soong-type android B-4. With his help, on Stardate 62762.91 the team unlocks what it calls the “Data matrix,” successfully accessing the personality, knowledge and memories of Data, who had downloaded this information into B-4 before his destruction in the Battle of Bassen Rift.

The Data persona asserts itself over B-4’s more primitive programming, and the android is able to assist the Soong Foundation team to upgrade the positronic brain and recreate the emotion chip invented by Dr. Noonien Soong. The team is confident that their work will be completed in months.
-----------------------------------------------
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!11

[Nasedo]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

me to.i enjoy reading it for the first time,
Please sir, could i have some more?

[Loekii]

nice update but what happened with the Klingon-Gorn situation

My sentiments as well. Not fan of the feds nor romulans, so my interests are more towards the klingon factions (gorn, nausicans, orions) as well as the neutral elements.

That said, it is a good 'Fed/Romulan' update. My criticism is that the 'Path' fiction is appearing lopsided for a game with more than just the Federation faction.

[Kestrel]

Awen, this is the best update ever.

Give whoever wrote this a piece of pie!

Aww, that's sweet. :)

I'm glad people are enjoying these.

[Nonderyon]

Awsome :)
Plz countinue xD

[ymichael]

Kudo's...great timeline. But I thought it would take more than just a "personal request" to get Jean-Luc Picard off the bridge of the Enterprise. :eek:

[Re4_wesker]

nice. i think its pretty safe to say now that they won't be taking the way of the books. Still though im looking forward to the next one.:p

I predict that the borg are gonna trash the Federation shortly cuz they decomissioned their borg defense forces.

[Voyager24]

Awesome timeline its getting very very good.!:)

[Anichent]

Two of my favorite ship classes: Olympic and Luna. :D

Also nice to see that they are taking a lot from the Titan books :P

[bradley1701]

okay....we're on the road to bringing back data.(will B-4 have data's capabilities?speed....,knowledge..those things...and if Data doesn't get the Big E in 2409 that isn't right okay? and for now give Capt. Riker the Big E.

make a voyager movie.....that results in the return of data...not his persona but data himself.

in 2409 data gets the Big E and LaForge is his number one.

what does everyone else think bout how i believe it should shake out???

Well, Riker goes on to command the Titan at the end of Nemesis...so it all depends on whether or not he wants to leave that command....or who knows, maybe he is an Admiral?

Riker was always the one who was darn near blowing up the Big E everytime he was left in command...so no...I don't want to see him as Captain of it lol

[CherryTerri]

I am becoming interested ...

... how the Klingons removed all non-Klingon residents from their planet.
... how the Enterprise-E crew parted ways (it was gonna happen, no crew stays together for eternity)
... B-4 (unsure how to feel about this)
... Worf ... I wonder if his future turns out as in the episode when his son, Alexander, goes back in time to stop something
... not being ready for the Borg is .. a plain dumb idea. Sure Voyager destroyed one of their ... conduit things, doesn't mean they still can't get to where Earth is
... Bajorians still getting short end of the stick with Cardassia ... meh
... and Romulans. So much on them makes these updates pretty imbalanced. Though it is interesting on how Cryptic is showing the power struggle.

I await the next installment!

[Manx]

Great read, very interesting stuff :)

[knightofhyrule730]

I am becoming interested ...

... Bajorians still getting short end of the stick with Cardassia ... meh



I dunno about this one. to me, it sounds like they're demanding a lot of stuff. most of the updates have had bajor demanding things given to them. I think its kinda like if France started demanding Germany give them some cities in the current day for what happened in WWII.

it will be very interesting to see how all this turns out.

[Anichent]

So....we know Martok is still leading the Klingons, and we know whats going on with the Romulans but is Nan Bacco of Cestus III still the President of the Federation? Did she win another election? Did she get beat out by some Deltan or Betazoid? I want to know more about the Federation :P

[Powerhelm]

This was a good time-line, but it does make me think the NX-91001 was just a sovereign refit since they even said it was going through an extensive year long refit :p

Read the prequel comic so I already knew about Data, The Pasteur is the same as the end of all good things as is Worf's resignation from Starfleet, nice to see a mention of Grilka.

Would be nice if the next one mentioned some of the DS9 stuff or where some DS9 and Voyager characters are now...

[Anichent]

This was a good time-line, but it does make me think the NX-91001 was just a sovereign refit since they even said it was going through an extensive year long refit :p

Read the prequel comic so I already knew about Data, The Pasteur is the same as the end of all good things as is Worf's resignation from Starfleet, nice to see a mention of Grilka.

Would be nice if the next one mentioned some of the DS9 stuff or where some DS9 and Voyager characters are now...

May I just say...I love your signature! :D

[Doug3575]

Great work. I can't wait until the next update.

[CherryTerri]

I dunno about this one. to me, it sounds like they're demanding a lot of stuff. most of the updates have had bajor demanding things given to them. I think its kinda like if France started demanding Germany give them some cities in the current day for what happened in WWII.

it will be very interesting to see how all this turns out.

I see what you mean, but it is only ... "human" to want retribution to the suffereing they went through. And since those Cardassians suddenly "disappeared" is suspicious.

[capgjt585]

Yay, new update! :)

Enterprise-E back to exploration duty kinda makes sense, it's what most of Star Trek IS after all... >.>

I don't quite get how Picard is the ambassador to Vulcan, it doesn't seem quite right for him IMO. Is it just so that he can collab with Ambassador Spock? Worf's assignment make sense, but I'm not sure Picard's does.

Nice touch with taking Beverly Crusher's fate from "All Good Things...", but what about Wesley?

B-4 is becoming "Data 2", this I like! (nod nod)

Seven of Nine is right, they should listen to her! ;)

Stalling in Cardassian space, that's not good. Things will go bad fast if efforts stall...

Romulans are fragile, still might fall apart despite the reform.

[Loekii]

... Bajorians still getting short end of the stick with Cardassia ... meh
!
Funny, I felt like they were still wining ... and was inspired to make Bajorians my primary prey.

"different things to different gorns" - lol. :D

[MoppyCGDaniels]

As for the Luna class I'd like to know at such date of appearance like such ship with the Federation as a more esential one. Alike a Achilies, Norway or the Excalibur it don't has to be Enterprise – J! I for one think about old battlecruisers into space like the Saratoga. A New Orleans is more the time of the Stargazer. I'm not refering at a Ambassador.

The Romulan evolvement into this mistery seems more of a political situation. I'm interested where the senator's career goes further.

B4 is getting the emotinal chip of one Dr. Nonien Soong's else androids is good. Seven of Nine is teaching at the Daystom Institut is logical for Borg threads that as I guess seem of no concern.

For a shipyard like Utopia Planetia in Mars orbit is where the Fed ships & allies are getting modified. The Enterprise – E with no longer Cpt. Picard assigned to, getting a new task makes sense. When Beverly Crusher has her's on the USS Pasteur is what brings me to my previous point in that time. Refering at sector 001 conclude to instellations like Jupiter station or other known places in STO where it's not used to onboard shiplife.

Even though Chief Engineer Jordy LaForge building ships is where it had carried him to.

I'm personaly more focused on how the former war with the Cardassians as long as they were a part of the Dominion had turned out.

The situations acording to Kitomeer show's at its best with Worf, Son of Mogh.

[A_Martin]

I am very intrigued with the development of the Romulan political situation. Good on Cryptic for providing these details.

I am a little saddened that the Enterprise crew have mostly gone their separate ways but its to be expected thirty years later. I am very interested to see if and how these crewmembers are used in the episodic content.

[nhamlett]

Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

[capgjt585]

I am a little saddened that the Enterprise crew have mostly gone their separate ways but its to be expected thirty years later. I am very interested to see if and how these crewmembers are used in the episodic content.

Probably you would get orders from them, or they would just be in the story surrounding the game. You might get a chance to be involved with a "younger" character (younger being relative here) such as Kim or Wesley.

[Kuhr]

Picard ambassador to Vulcan...Fascinating.

[Ensign.Ricky]

I always figured Picard would at least get to Admiral status before getting out. I too didn't figure him to be the Vulcan Ambassador but maybe those mind melds with Sarek and Spock have had an effect on him. The news about the Anti Borg task force is a bit depressing. The first mentioning of it opened so many possibilities especially with two ex-borgs working together...

I guess the next big question is who gets the Enterprise now?

...On a side note did they ever say if anything happened to the Maquis members of Voyager? Can't sem to remember now.

[Trekkie]

I totally agree that this is the best timeline update yet, and I am really impressed with the creative direction that the storyline seems to be taking. Everything that we know about the timeline so far definitely fits within the realm of the Star Trek universe but at the same time sort of presents a fresh outlook on it, and I think it will be very exciting to play the game (and roleplay) within this timeframe!

[Loekii]

Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

Didn't she say she spends her evenings with her hubby reviewing the series for facts? It is paying off in that the stories are staying believably in canon. Now just got to send her more klingon, gorn, nausican, etc episode DvDs.;)


Probably you would get orders from them, or they would just be in the story surrounding the game. You might get a chance to be involved with a "younger" character (younger being relative here) such as Kim or Wesley.

If I can kill Wesley, I may never do anything but that repeatedly. :D

[Trekkie626]

You'll be playing the game and bam you'll pick up a borg armada one it's way for earth and this time the queen will be ****ed and to hell with one cube try 50.

I reckon in the tradition of 'All Good Things...' the Enterprise will get a third nacelle.

Also I would have thought that Picard would be a Federation Ambassador-At-Large like Sarek. Not tied to a single world.

[AdmGillis]

Yeah... that's a great reason to resign command of the Enterprise... to become Ambassador to Vulcan.

Wouldn't give up his command for Admiral on how many occassions? But, he'll do it to become an ambassador.

[billyyank]

This timeline is not at all consistent with the Star Trek: Destiny books. Which should I believe?

[AdmGillis]

I guess the next big question is who gets the Enterprise now?

Isn't it obvious that Cryptic is following the Countdown storyline from the Star Trek XI timeline? I mean, they have the same uniforms and everything.

Data will be captain of the Enterprise.

[Vicelance]

Until you see the onscreen message pop up

"Captain, sensors are picking up a Borg vessel. Heading 090."
"Helm, set course 270 and engage at full warp"
"We're running away sir?!"
"Damn right we are!"

What I mean is that one ship should not be able to take on the Borg alone. It should require a fleet to defeat the Borg ships not one suped up science vessal. I like the Intrepid class but it shouldn't have been able to do what it did, it survived multiple Borg ships dispite one Borg cube being able to take out a fleet at Wolf 359.

[knightofhyrule730]

Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

Yay! Maybe if you guys ever come back to the east coast i'll bring a pie for her :)

come to jersey con ;)

Also, I do not like Bajor's QQing :P

[pops64]

/cry that is all i have to say about that Picard leaving Starfleet :(

[captain_jazzy_jay]

I have to say.... Kind of wondering about some of the things in this post:confused:. I find it very hard to believe that Picard would ever resign from starfleet. I would find it more believable that he would go and teach ethics at Starfleet academy.... While he does not particullarly enjoy children, he does hold a very high importance of keeping the values of the Federation strong; what a better way to do this but by shaping the minds of young Starfleet cadets. Maybe Picard becoming an ambassador at a much older age is more believable, but I think Picard is an explorer at heart. Picard has some James Kirk in him..... Always wondering what is just beyond the next star.... To boldly go, where no one has gone before.
Aside from Picard though, I am very happy to see that Data could be back very shortly. I feel Gene Roddenberry had a deeper lying issue to his space exploration show.... Star Trek is a family, and while most stories have a main character die, I feel Star Trek has a single an unique quality about it. I feel that in Star Trek, people almost never pass away (didn't say never),but they grow and become more than they are.... I feel this is a substitute for death. To overcome challenges in ones life, to make ones self more than it is and what it can be..... That is Star Trek. I feel Gene Roddenberry had this right when he made Star Trek. I feel Star Trek has tried to almost always follow one rule: Keep the family together as long as possible. Star Trek just isn't quite the same when characters are lost to us, never to return.

[The_Sisko]

Empress Donatra of the Imperial Romulan Empire

Seriously? I'm sorry but nothing sound more stupid than "Imperial Whatever Empire." Just by being an empire implies that something is "imperial" so it's purely redundant, and "imperial" and "empire" are basically the same word.

So, the vaunted Romulan Star Empire is basically known as the "Empire of Romulans Empire."

Why not just keep it as the "Romulan Star Empire?" I always thought that was an awesome name, and "Imperial Romulan Empire" sounds really amateurish and stupid quite frankly. I don't mean to be harsh, because everything else was pretty good, but seriously "Imperial Romulan Empire" is really a blight on an otherwise really good write up.

I seriously hope stuff like this doesn't make it into the game, because that's gonna destroy any immersion the game may have for me. I know it's just one stupid little thing, but that's simply what happens with films, books and even video games.

Please, please, please Cryptic, please just call it the "Romulan Star Empire." Please.

[Dext]

This was a Good Read thanks for it.

[Rekkert]

Seriously? I'm sorry but nothing sound more stupid than "Imperial Whatever Empire." Just by being an empire implies that something is "imperial" so it's purely redundant, and "imperial" and "empire" are basically the same word.

So, the vaunted Romulan Star Empire is basically known as the "Empire of Romulans Empire."

Why not just keep it as the "Romulan Star Empire?" I always thought that was an awesome name, and "Imperial Romulan Empire" sounds really amateurish and stupid quite frankly. I don't mean to be harsh, because everything else was pretty good, but seriously "Imperial Romulan Empire" is really a blight on an otherwise really good write up.

I seriously hope stuff like this doesn't make it into the game, because that's gonna destroy any immersion the game may have for me. I know it's just one stupid little thing, but that's simply what happens with films, books and even video games.

Please, please, please Cryptic, please just call it the "Romulan Star Empire." Please.

The Romulan faction under Donatra's rule was called Imperial Romulan Empire and Imperial Romulan State in diferent Path to 2409 entries, I think it's a simple error, and we should asume its "real" name is Imperial Romulan State.

With these planets under her control, Donatra declares herself the first empress of the Imperial Romulan State and establishes a capitol on Archenar Prime.

[Varrangian]

If I can kill Wesley, I may never do anything but that repeatedly. :D

I said that about Ewoks and Gungans in SWG.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

Once again, Cryptic stands out, both for its extraordinary commitment to the plotline of Star Trek Online as well as the sheer quality and intelligence of its writing. It's simply impossible to be unimpressed by the depth of the universe that's being created, and I'm excited for the richness of the universe to come.

I really appreciate the writer's (or writers') use of touchstones which ground the story on the context of today. It's little touches, like quoting a Starfleet public relations officer, creating the impression of a staff infrastructure behind the frontline officers and enlisted personnel of the shipboard fleet. I note also the indication of an active civilian press and the willingness to create policy structures - and conflict - within the Federation. The time taken to include this references creates real depth.

It would be very interesting to learn more about the sitting President of the Federation in the ST:O universe is, and that individual's background, given some of the decisions ascribed to that individual. While a reorientation to an exploration footing is an action that can be conceivably ascribed to the senior military leadership of Starfleet as well as the civilian authorities.

The decision, however, to accede to the forcible expulsion of Federation citizens by the Klingon Empire, from a planet considered an astropolitical neutral site, is a decision that could only be made by the President of the Federation. Once could argue that, coupled with the decision to stand down from a nearly 20-year-old policy having a specially-organized against the Borg, are dramatic statements about the willingness of the Federation to defend its interests. Who is this person, and who is it that would have the personal standing to ask Jean-Luc Picard to surrender command of the Enterprise after over twenty years?

I do offer my strenuous objection to the story point regarding the "Data matrix." I recognize that there's a real appetite to see Data "resurrected," particularly given the fact that Nemesis is generally unpopular, the popularity of the Data character, and the fact that Cryptic is by no means beholden to the story choices make by John Logan and Paramount et al.

But despite the fact that it is technically possible for B4 to "become" Data, I think it does a strong disservice to the character of Data to take the position that the two are simply interchangeable but for the machinations of Starfleet engineers. It undermines everything not only about that character, but I'd argue about other characters who represented unique, independent artificial intelligence, such as The Doctor. The Path to 2409: 2385 argues, in essence, that the Starfleet court's ruling in Measure of a Man really was wrong, that Data, B4, Lore, and by extension The Doctor were not actually sentient beings but merely a collection of subroutines and circuitry. I don't believe that was the meaning of Data's life.

I know that Data's death was intended, by the filmmakers and the character, to echo Spock's sacrifice in Star Trek II. Given that, it could be argued that, like Spock, Data passed on his personalities to B4 to preserve his existence. I do strongly disagree; I think the film, the character, and the actor intended that Data sacrificed, gave something up for the crew that represented his family. Given that Cryptic has indicated that meetings with legacy characters will be limited, I see limited utility for this move.

That critique, however, is my lone one. This is an extraordinary piece of the puzzle, and overall Cryptic continues to hit the mark.

[Snrcbpco]

!. NX- 91001 is found both on the pictures of the Miranda-Class...and the Sovereign-like Class of ship..
2. Somewhere here i predicted that Data's download into B-4 will lead to it taking over B-4 and resurrecting Data
3. Picard Ambassador to Vulcan? of all places? Vulcan?
4. I liked the rest. cant wait to go fight some Klingons :P
5. The Olympic - class would be awesome to play
6. Who's going to be the next captain of the Enterprise? Wesley? all the other characters seemed to have resigned from Starfleet or are on their own ship.
Candidates: Sisko, Tuvok, Wesley, Dax, Paris, Kim, and Chakotay (if we keep to the series' crews)
I'd like to see the Enterprise become like that Sovereign-like NX- 91001

[Rekkert]

I know that Data's death was intended, by the filmmakers and the character, to echo Spock's sacrifice in Star Trek II. Given that, it could be argued that, like Spock, Data passed on his personalities to B4 to preserve his existence. I do strongly disagree; I think the film, the character, and the actor intended that Data sacrificed, gave something up for the crew that represented his family. Given that Cryptic has indicated that meetings with legacy characters will be limited, I see limited utility for this move.

Remember that Data is the captain of the Ent-E on Star Trek: Countdown, so maybe it was not Cryptic idea to bring him back but Bad Robot's idea. Data makes the sacrifice nevertheless, because when he died, B-4 hadn't "assimilated" his memories yet, and it was inprobable that he would. Anyway, I think it is great to have him back.

[Snrcbpco]

I always figured Picard would at least get to Admiral status before getting out. I too didn't figure him to be the Vulcan Ambassador but maybe those mind melds with Sarek and Spock have had an effect on him. The news about the Anti Borg task force is a bit depressing. The first mentioning of it opened so many possibilities especially with two ex-borgs working together...

I guess the next big question is who gets the Enterprise now?

...On a side note did they ever say if anything happened to the Maquis members of Voyager? Can't sem to remember now.

Even Kirk told him " Never let them promote you. Never let them take away the right to sit in the chair of the Enterprise" (Not an exact quote :P)

[Snrcbpco]

Very nice, now I see how they are moving to Star Trek XI:D

I do not think the movie is based on the game...there will probably be little or no correlation between the two timelies

[PattonJ007]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

I think this one is the best one yet ... make all them as long if not longer than this one :)

I love the updates with Seven, Jean-Luc, Data, Geordi, and Beverly. I think its kinda funny how Beverly gets command of the USS Pasteur ... deja vu anyone? I love that the Luna Class was mentioned, it gives me hope that it might be in the game.

The one thing I really want to know is when Benjamin Sisko is going to come flying out of the wormhole ... was it ever covered in a book or novel?

I hope to hear about any or all of the DS9 or USS Voyager crew soon.

Keep it coming Awen, this is some good sh-stuff.

[Snrcbpco]

okay....we're on the road to bringing back data.(will B-4 have data's capabilities?speed....,knowledge..those things...and if Data doesn't get the Big E in 2409 that isn't right okay? and for now give Capt. Riker the Big E.

make a voyager movie.....that results in the return of data...not his persona but data himself.

in 2409 data gets the Big E and LaForge is his number one.

what does everyone else think bout how i believe it should shake out???

Data...as in Brent Spiner is getting old...they probably wont make a "Data" movie....Data can't get fat and wrinkly (unless he enables an "aging chip")
BUT
I'd like to see more interaction and info from DS9 and VOY crews...not much of it in the news...except for Annika Hansen..and the Doctor....

Yeah...Data could be captain...and La Forge #2.....but we'll see

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

Remember that Data is the captain of the Ent-E on Star Trek: Countdown, so maybe it was not Cryptic idea to bring him back but Bad Robot's idea. Data makes the sacrifice nevertheless, because when he died, B-4 hadn't "assimilated" his memories yet, and it was inprobable that he would. Anyway, I think it is great to have him back.

To be sure, you can make a technical argument for the "how", particularly being that this is Star Trek. It's a question, to my mind, of whether the Data character should be resurrected.

I do think that, rather than having to do with any comic series, it's simply a story decision made in response to the widespread popularity of he character. The comic book, I suspect, has little if anything to do with it.

[JMD10222]

Nice update, and also nice job incorporating Countdown into it;). Great to see Data back:D

[Rekkert]

I do not think the movie is based on the game...there will probably be little or no correlation between the two timelies

No, but the same people making the movie is making a prequel comic called Star Trek: Countdown, wich happen in 2387 and has captain Data commanding the Enterprise, the mayority of fans consider Countdown canon.

[LunaticFringer]

Good read. I guess I had hoped Picard would've held onto Kirk's advice though and stayed a Captain right up to his final days because, "...while you're there you can make a difference."

It'll be interesting to see what you have in store for Data's memories within B4 as well. I was rather looking forward to another TNG movie sequel with Data as Picard's #1. I think it would've had some very humorous moments potential.

I am curious what we'll hear about a new Enterprise and crew as the stories progress as well. As much as Star Trek has an entire universe to explore I think we can all agree that the Enterprise will always remain a focal point for Trek and the Federation.

Keep'em coming.

[Stu1701]

Wow, definitely the best Path to 2409 story yet. So much happens! Can't wait to hear more!

[Elanel]

Good read for a Thursday morning. Thanks :)

[minago]

best one yet, a good read

[Wardog00]

Great Timeline...This game is going to be awesomw.

Who is in charge of the Cardassian Government now?
More DS9 crew info would be great!

Data as the Enterprise Captain would be awesome, Geordi would be an old man 30 years from Nemesis. Not practical as #1 under Data.

How about Harry Kim, Wesley Crusher, Nog, or Even Jake Sisko (If he joined Starfleet)

Well all of our opinions aside, it will all come together and make sense.

P.S. throw us some Klingon Ship info (Chancellor Class-refit?)

For the Empire. Qapla'!

[NicoleDuBois]

The stories are awesome. Keep up the good work :)

[Anichent]

This timeline is not at all consistent with the Star Trek: Destiny books. Which should I believe?

The Timeline is not Consistent with most books...this isn't meant to be canon, or even lose canon like the books. Personlly I'm sticking with the books, but playing the game for fun

[KirksOtherSon]

An excellent update, much appreciated!

Perhaps my favorite aspect of this installment is that it did not shy away from making some major "statements of change" -- explicitly telling us what became of favorites such as Picard, Crusher, LaForge, Data/B-4, Worf and even the good ship Enterprise-E.

While not everyone will agree with all of these story decisions, I suppose, I appreciate that the judgement calls were made, and that we've been given direct details of how some of our favorites moved on in the STO universe.

Likewise, the political situation continues to evolve in interesting (and unexpected) ways.

Thank you for the entertaining read. Every new revelation makes me anticipate becoming a part of this storyline, sooner than later.

Congratulations on a tale well told, each chapter more interesting than the last.

KOS

[KirksOtherSon]

The Timeline is not Consistent with most books...this isn't meant to be canon, or even lose canon like the books. Personlly I'm sticking with the books, but playing the game for fun

Respectfully, neither the books nor Star Trek Online are strictly canonical; only "visual Trek" (TV shows and movies). "Loose canon" is actually a term coined by Cryptic to describe how _they_ regard the books in relation to Star Trek Online -- meaning, Cryptic will take elements from the books, and treat them as "STO canon" where it suits their story plans.

Cheers,

KOS

[marscentral]

Awesome update, I agree with others that this is probably the best yet.

[doam]

Wow. They've all been good, but this one was really, REALLY, REALLY good. Can't wait for the next.

[Ignak]

Outstanding work! Fun to read.

[J.L.Picard]

it looks to me like you need other people writing this, Picard would never take up an Ambassador role let alone resign, i think maybe some of you should go watch movie 7 Generations.

and all this reviving of data what has happened to B4??

[John]

some great stuff and loved the end bits also wow did not see that ambassador to Vulcan thing keep up the great work

[Traveller]

awsome read thanks alot !

[Eidolonael]

Many things make sense now... and the ignoring of the Borg threat is a foolish blind eye... Something like the borg never truly dies, it hibernates, exists in a glass bottle, or floats in space as flotsam until fate turns the cards....

I eagerly await the next installment. I am two chapters from finishing the first Titan book and should be caught up with the timeline within the next few weeks. News of this game excited my love of Trek again and I am sad to see all that I've missed... I can't wait to get caught up... and then get caught up again, in-game.

[Sherp]

Personally, I hold little interest in galactic politics. I care little about the machinations of the Romulan Senate, and I always thought Perpetual's focus on the nameless "Federation President" was a little strange considering that is not a title which has come up a lot in Star Trek (unless I missed it entirely). That's why I like this update so much: It's very exciting to learn what happens to all of our friends from the Enterprise-E. Major kudos to the Cryptic staff. :D Best of the Timeline updates yet, IMO. Pie all around!

It's also interesting to read about all of the developments being made on various artificial intelligences in Starfleet. Data is obviously an important player in the 25th century, and we've had several updates about the Doctor from Voyager. The Law of Conservation of Detail (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail) tells me they wouldn't be telling us this much beforehand if it wasn't going to be important to the game somehow, so I predict we'll be seeing AIs take on an increased role in Starfleet for STO. There are all sorts of ways it might be handy to have capable, sentient holograms available on every Starfleet ship, materializing out of nowhere to repel boarders and replace injured crew members. The "new technology" on the Enterprise that will take a year to install can't possibly be limited to a new sensor dish...ship-wide holographic projectors, anyone? "Please state the nature of the tactical emergency!"

If Data's not too busy captaining the Enterprise-E, perhaps he can lead an organization advocating the rights of sentient AIs...or perhaps the Doctor wants the job more. In any case, there are so many untold stories about sentient computers and I'm thrilled that Perpetual is taking an interest in them.

[Swizy]

Starfleet Command announces it has completed its re-evaluation of all of its post-Dominion War assets and resources and that it will be refocusing some ships that have been assigned to defense and diplomacy to exploration and scientific discovery.

It's like saying: "it's on b****"

Nice read, can't wait for the next, but if it's half as good as this one it would be worth it!
And fair well gold generation :(

[Mysticone622]

I would actually like to see Commander Martin Madden promoted to Captain since Picard retired. He has at this point now been the Enterprise first officer for 6 years. (alt Ending of nemesis, should have kept parts in and mixed it with the current ending)


also why are people CRYING about Picard retiring....THE MAN IS 81 YEARS OLD in 2385... are people forgetting that in "All Good Things" Picard had retired and became an ambassor and then retired again. Its not that hard to believe he could actually do it.

[Qugie]

THANKS :) good stuff!

Well it looks like the Borg are the "ancient threat."

no I agree with 7 of 9. they will be back. the Borg can build back up faster then anyone

[Philly1000]

Thanks, now only 24 more to go ;)

24 to go with an expected release date of eary 2010 that's 2 a mounth god the antticaption is killing me

[Qugie]

Great Timeline...This game is going to be awesomw.

Who is in charge of the Cardassian Government now?
More DS9 crew info would be great!

Data as the Enterprise Captain would be awesome, Geordi would be an old man 30 years from Nemesis. Not practical as #1 under Data.

How about Harry Kim, Wesley Crusher, Nog, or Even Jake Sisko (If he joined Starfleet)

Well all of our opinions aside, it will all come together and make sense.

P.S. throw us some Klingon Ship info (Chancellor Class-refit?)

For the Empire. Qapla'!


Geordi makes Captain in less then 15 years anyway.

Jake Sisko never joins star fleet. he has no plans whatsoever to join star fleet

[JPJappic]

THANKS :) good stuff!

Well it looks like the Borg are the "ancient threat."

The Borg aren't really ancient. I'm thinking it'll be the Iconians somehow. The whole gateways thing would be interesting and provide instant travel to many places in STO.

it looks to me like you need other people writing this, Picard would never take up an Ambassador role let alone resign, i think maybe some of you should go watch movie 7 Generations.

and all this reviving of data what has happened to B4??

They're following through with what happened with the final episode of TNG. Despite that Kirk told Picard to never get promoted and whatnot and to stay as the Captain of the Enterprise, doesn't mean he has to actually go through with that. Things happen to change people and lives move on. As for Data, the new Data is B4.. as mentioned in the timeline update.

"With his help, on Stardate 62762.91 the team unlocks what it calls the “Data matrix,” successfully accessing the personality, knowledge and memories of Data, who had downloaded this information into B-4 before his destruction in the Battle of Bassen Rift."

I hope this clears things up for you.

[Rivaris]

super story and Data returns cant wait for the other years to get released.

and the borg queen isnt a fool in voyager the admiral jane way brought back a crap load of tech to refit voyager that made it back to earth wich will probarly be on most of the fed ships by now.

there just buying there time taking over Delta and finding some counters to species 8472.
afther that they will come to alpha in force.

[fireraven]

I would actually like to see Commander Martin Madden promoted to Captain since Picard retired. He has at this point now been the Enterprise first officer for 6 years. (alt Ending of nemesis, should have kept parts in and mixed it with the current ending)


also why are people CRYING about Picard retiring....THE MAN IS 81 YEARS OLD in 2385... are people forgetting that in "All Good Things" Picard had retired and became an ambassor and then retired again. Its not that hard to believe he could actually do it.

along with the age factor (mandatory retirement anyone?) I can also see him being asked to be Ambassador to Vulcan due to the Unification movement on Romulus and all that entails.... should something like that happen then someone as highly regarded as Picard makes sense for the position.

[SenshiBat]

Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

another secret escapes...heeh, I thought your office was powered by Choco Chips..

[phifur]

Great read I love it :D

[Mjoellnir]

Very good, even though I miss information on the Reunification movement (after Sela accused them of murdering Tal'Aura) and the Klingon-Gorn Situation. It's an interesting touch that the Federation takes the colonists from Khitomer in, they should be Romulans.
Hurray for Data and Ambassador Picard! If Data manages to upgrade himself, he maybe can help with the mobile emitter project too.:)

[Sorayn]

VEry sad and nostalgic to see the crew of the Big E go their seperate ways.On the other hand, it makes my mouth water to see that by doing this, Cryptic has given themselves the chance to implement the characters throughout he game and giving us the possibilty to meet them rather than have 500000000 playes ships trying to find the Enterprise and beam over ;)

Another thing that reallly interests me is the turning point in the federation-Klingon relationships. Can't wait to see how Cryptic will make the timeline and show us what exactly went wrong in the first place. I for one can't wait.

And DATA FTW. Good to have him back!

[capgjt585]

VEry sad and nostalgic to see the crew of the Big E go their seperate ways.On the other hand, it makes my mouth water to see that by doing this, Cryptic has given themselves the chance to implement the characters throughout he game and giving us the possibilty to meet them rather than have 500000000 playes ships trying to find the Enterprise and beam over ;)!

You make a good point. Cryptic doesn't NEED all those players trying to find the Enterprise (can anyone say server crash? :)), so it's probably for the better in the long run that Cryptic scatters all the characters around.

[The_Sisko]

I do offer my strenuous objection to the story point regarding the "Data matrix." I recognize that there's a real appetite to see Data "resurrected," particularly given the fact that Nemesis is generally unpopular, the popularity of the Data character, and the fact that Cryptic is by no means beholden to the story choices make by John Logan and Paramount et al.

But despite the fact that it is technically possible for B4 to "become" Data, I think it does a strong disservice to the character of Data to take the position that the two are simply interchangeable but for the machinations of Starfleet engineers. It undermines everything not only about that character, but I'd argue about other characters who represented unique, independent artificial intelligence, such as The Doctor. The Path to 2409: 2385 argues, in essence, that the Starfleet court's ruling in Measure of a Man really was wrong, that Data, B4, Lore, and by extension The Doctor were not actually sentient beings but merely a collection of subroutines and circuitry. I don't believe that was the meaning of Data's life.

I know that Data's death was intended, by the filmmakers and the character, to echo Spock's sacrifice in Star Trek II. Given that, it could be argued that, like Spock, Data passed on his personalities to B4 to preserve his existence. I do strongly disagree; I think the film, the character, and the actor intended that Data sacrificed, gave something up for the crew that represented his family. Given that Cryptic has indicated that meetings with legacy characters will be limited, I see limited utility for this move.

That critique, however, is my lone one. This is an extraordinary piece of the puzzle, and overall Cryptic continues to hit the mark.

Even Spock had his Genesis Planet.

I thin k it's in keeping with the story (such as it was) to resurrect Data. It was heavily implied that this is possible during Nemesis. If they ever did make another TNG movie (maybe Nemesis was their "Star Trek V" then I'd expect even Paramount would find a way to resurrect Data.

I also think that it was relatively difficult to bring Data back. Difficult enough to keep his individuality and unique status.

[Rab2483]

I thought it was a good read but was expectibng more from the crew of the enterprise but it was probably the better of the storysthey written.

well heres to the finest crew in starfleet:D make it so.......

[Nelson]

great update thank you to all of you at Cryptic....

[willriker09]

Definetly best timeline update yet in my opinion, we find out what all our favorite TNG crew members are up to, hear more about that Borg initiative and Seven, and a whole bunch of other info.

Most importantly, you included the awesomeness that is Star Trek: Countdown. If you don't know what I am talking about, then you should look it up immediately and then go buy issues 1 and 2.

[TwAgIssmuDe]

Very good read, lot's of interresting stuff happenning. Farewell crew of the enterprise-E, and welcome back Data!

[DFawkes]

That's probably my favourite timeline update yet :) Core characters, planetary politics, and what seems like some steering towards similarities with the "All Good Thing..." future. Very nice!

[jbarker82]

Great stuff Kestrel! Your pie is well deserved :)

Great to see a resolution to the whole B-4 thing, although EVERYONE must have known what was going to happen there.

Bajorans are starting to get annoying. Whining and complaining all the time. The Cardassians have lost a heck of a lot more then the Bajorans ever did during the occupation. Granted, it was the Cardassians own fault but heck ... get over it! If I can be a Cardassian i'm going to initiate the occupation all over again ...

I'll get off my soap box now ....

The whole Romulan situation makes for very interesting reading but I do agree with someone who mentioned earlier about just calling them the 'Romulan Star Empire' again. It sounds so much better than the 'Imperial Romulan State/Empire'. Even calling it the 'Romulan Imperium' would be better IMO. Still, it's a great read!

Picard .... sigh .... I was a bit miffed when I heard about him becoming an Ambassador to Vulcan, then I realised that he would be fairly old during that year ... but even so, I would have thought he would prefer to stay in Star Fleet or perhaps return home to France? I know he's a great diplomat but Star Fleet would be fools to let him retire/resign to become an Ambassador. I'm pretty sure they would have fallen on their knees to give him an Admiralty. Still, i'm glad we know what he's gone on to do now.

Steps down from soap box again ...

Ok so next we want more on what's happening in Klingon space and with the Cardassians! :D

[USS_Paragon]

Awesome read. Now is when we start to see major changes happening. Can only imagine what the future holds.

[jdunbar9]

This Is The Best One Yet!!!! :)

[Loekii]

Yeah... that's a great reason to resign command of the Enterprise... to become Ambassador to Vulcan.

Wouldn't give up his command for Admiral on how many occasions? But, he'll do it to become an ambassador.

Makes complete sense to me. I can definitely understand desiring a change of venue to a less stressful but interesting position in the twilight of my career. Not everyone wants to climb to the highest rung and work themselves into the grave.

[Loekii]

How about Harry Kim, Wesley Crusher, Nog, or Even Jake Sisko (If he joined Starfleet)



Please, for love of trek. just keep Wesly out of sto, unless its a story how a Kzinti ripped his head off to silence wes's annoying voice.

[TruthSeer]

Now that the Romulan thing is pretty much over, hopefully we'll get to see what happens to the Klingon Empire that leads to how they are in 2409.

Still hoping the Borg aren't the "ancient threat" and also they don't turn the Dominion cuddly and nice.

[Gizmo]

That is the best update so far!

Its awesome to see Data basically back from the dead and helping on bringing back the emotion chip and everything from when he was destroyed.
Its actually kind of sad to see the Enterprise bridge crew disbanded, but not unexpected. I'm glad to see Beverly get her own command and I could definitely see both Worf and Picard fitting into their Ambassador roles. I'm also excited to hear about what new ships and tech Geordi comes up with.

As for the rest of the quadrant, things are shaping up very interestingly. With the Cardassians trying to rebuild, and the Romulan Empire somewhat stabilized (we'll see how long that lasts) this was a great update. :D

[Wardog00]

I can't wait to hear more about the Klingon Empire and how they got tired of watching the Fragile Federation's back. The strong must rule and the Klingons will do it with Honor. (PvP) is gonna rock.

[Swordopolis]

A whopper of an update!

[Starship01]

A very interesting story and i can't wait till the next one :D:cool:

[Fencer8]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)

The best time line? The skull duggery to come should be even better. The political intrigue, double dealings, slight of hand. I thing the best is still coming. :)

[sorsor1]

can some one pleas tell me how i can join a fleet? :D

[Counselor_Zexx]

I'm curious for more info on Holographic Rights in the new age of Star Trek. Excellent update.

[Silverspar]

can some one pleas tell me how i can join a fleet? :D

Go to the fleet forums look for one you would you think matches your ideals and either reply in their thread or go to their website and sign up. Some people, like me, have their fleet page link in their signature.

[Azurian]

Good update, but I'm honestly not happy that Cryptic is going to follow the future timelines from TNG:All good things..., and TNG: Firstborn, and making like Worf and Picard didn't change the future at all. :mad:

I mean, the Enterprise-D is gone, and Wolf knows what's coming. So the future obviously has changed.

Come to think of it, it makes me ill to imagine the Enterprise-E turning into a 3-nacelled monster like the Future Enterprise-D. :eek:
--------------------

Picard becoming the Ambassador to Vulcan? Feels a bit odd since you think his diplomatic skills would be more useful with other races like the Cardassians, the Romulans, and even the Klingons.

Geordi's life seems interesting, I got a feeling he could be the brains behind some of the new starship designs we will be seeing in STO.

B-4, looks like they are setting him up to be the first of the andriod race that was hinted at a while ago.

Worf, we knew he was going to be an Ambassador because of Martok (frankly, I'm surprised it took him so long). But like I said above, I hope that Worf doesn't fulfill that plot in the future in being killed by the Duras. After all isn't the House of Duras dead now?
-------------------

Anti-Borg Task Force being dismantled? Yep the classic - lower your guard, baddies are coming - plot. :p

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

Yeah... that's a great reason to resign command of the Enterprise... to become Ambassador to Vulcan.

Wouldn't give up his command for Admiral on how many occassions? But, he'll do it to become an ambassador.

If you had to come up with the most plum diplomatic assignment within the Federation, possibly the most significant civilian assignment of any type short of a position within the cabinet of the President of the Federation, I think the position of Ambassador of the United Federation of Planets to the High Command of Vulcan would probably be it.

That said, you highlight the extraordinary weight of this decision, a point clearly underlined by the story's emphasis that it was the result of a personal request from the President of the Federation. Was the weight of that request born felt simply as a result of Picard's patriotism, or as a result of a relationship with the person serving as president in 2385?

[Wardog00]

Picard mind melded with Surek (Spock's Dad and Spock) he has a great insight to their culture.

Worf's timeline is sketchy with his loyalties in both worlds (Federation and Klingon.) In the end he will be forced to choose a faction.

Data (B-4) will make a good Captain for the Enterprise. B-4 is an exact "Physical" copy of Data (as stated in the movie Nemesis.) With the "Data Matrix" unlocked it becomes a simple intergration of his past experiences. He is a machine!

All that matters is in the End the Klingon Empire will rule the Alpha Quadrant.

[Counselor_Zexx]

If you had to come up with the most plum diplomatic assignment within the Federation, possibly the most significant civilian assignment of any type short of a position within the cabinet of the President of the Federation, I think the position of Ambassador of the United Federation of Planets to the High Command of Vulcan would probably be it.

That said, you highlight the extraordinary weight of this decision, a point clearly underlined by the story's emphasis that it was the result of a personal request from the President of the Federation. Was the weight of that request born felt simply as a result of Picard's patriotism, or as a result of a relationship with the person serving as president in 2385?

Agreed. Also with Picard's former involvement in the Romulan/Vulcan unification movement, it makes sense that his experience would make him the prime candidate for placement on Vulcan.

[Kestrel]

Please, for love of trek. just keep Wesly out of sto, unless its a story how a Kzinti ripped his head off to silence wes's annoying voice.

You know, I like how Wesley's story ended in "Journey's End." He's out there, he's doing his thing, but we don't necessarily need to revisit the character.

[Loekii]

You know, I like how Wesley's story ended in "Journey's End." He's out there, he's doing his thing, but we don't necessarily need to revisit the character.

Thank you very much. Now get back to you writing and make sure hubby has his finger on the rewind button if you need it. You got more path episodes to write. And think Gorn if you get stuck. :D

You also doing the writing for in game content, yes?

[Manx]

You know, I like how Wesley's story ended in "Journey's End." He's out there, he's doing his thing, but we don't necessarily need to revisit the character.

Best news yet. :D

[SirReginaldo]

I am quite happy about the situation in Romulan space. With the power mainly held by the Military, soon Donatra's power will be solidified, and using the Remans as the pawns, mostlikely granting them equal rights of the sort/posistions of power in the New Romulan Empire, a massive army will be erected. Bwhahahahahahahaha :D

[fireraven]

You know, I like how Wesley's story ended in "Journey's End." He's out there, he's doing his thing, but we don't necessarily need to revisit the character.

cmon Wesley should be in the game...... As a target for phaser training....throw neelix in too :D

[SirReginaldo]

cmon Wesley should be in the game...... As a target for phaser training....throw neelix in too :D

Hey... Neelix was cool... He had mad skills when it came to killing creature with his food and his pots and pans. He could take on an army of Klingons with some of his baking let alone any of the other concotions he could stir up.:D Just kidding :D No he was a cool character and he was funny at best times, and heck wesley was not terrible, just naive.

[fireraven]

Hey... Neelix was cool... He had mad skills when it came to killing creature with his food and his pots and pans. He could take on an army of Klingons with some of his baking let alone any of the other concotions he could stir up.:D Just kidding :D No he was a cool character and he was funny at best times, and heck wesley was not terrible, just naive.

yeah but the thought is in your head now.... next time you see him doing something stupid you'll be thinking.... hmm would be fun to shoot him with a phaser :D

[Davies82]

Thanks for the new timeline update Awen.
A very extensive timeline update indeed, really liked it.
keep up the good work.

[matt4tay]

You know, I like how Wesley's story ended in "Journey's End." He's out there, he's doing his thing, but we don't necessarily need to revisit the character.

Actually we do see Wesley in Nemesis. He is sat at the end of the table with his mum at Troi's and Riker's wedding. He is also wearing the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer for that era.

[Silverspar]

Actually we do see Wesley in Nemesis. He is sat at the end of the table with his mum at Troi's and Riker's wedding. He is also wearing the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer for that era.

Wesley also showed up in one of those Star Trek experience rides, he is the Engineer of the USS Titan for that, though he never makes an official appearance in the novels.

[Drunk1n]

Amazing, lots of good information. Stability seems to be forming but you can feel that it is potentially on faulty grounds. I am sad that the TNG crew is moving on - but alas all good things do seem to come to an end - as we saw in TNG.

I can't wait for the next update!

[Drunk1n]

Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

Well the Kestrel is a working wonder, and brilliant mind - I do have one complain though.

I can already tell it will be to long before the next update, as I already need more. :rolleyes:

[phoenix123]

Actually we do see Wesley in Nemesis. He is sat at the end of the table with his mum at Troi's and Riker's wedding. He is also wearing the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer for that era.

Isaw his name in the credits, but i could never remember where he was in the movie. now i know.

[phoenix123]

Well the Kestrel is a working wonder, and brilliant mind - I do have one complain though.

I can already tell it will be to long before the next update, as I already need more. :rolleyes:

I cannot agree with you enough. You would think that after the wait they gave us last time, the update would include more than one year, but i dontcomplain.

[Mjoellnir]

Actually we do see Wesley in Nemesis. He is sat at the end of the table with his mum at Troi's and Riker's wedding. He is also wearing the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer for that era.

There was also a deleted scene where he says that he's an engineer on the Titan. He then goes flirting with a few girls, so he seems to be over Robin Lefler. Kinda sad, they were a cute couple and she would have been a good reason to come back and be a normal human again.

[Delta4Elite2]

Thank You for the update. It's interesting to find out what happens to the ENTERPRISE ECHO and her crew. I'm happy to know Data's back aswell I hated that he died in Nemisis. I'm also glad to see what happens to Seven. I love how everything is unfolding in the universe. Thank you again!

[MajorD]

Every paragraph, except the Romulan ones, made me go, the hell?! None of it makes sense based on previous characterization, except for Worf going back to the Klingons, which is about time, and none of it makes sense on what has been established in previous updates.

The Klingons expel all non-citizens for no reason.

Picard stops being a captain and doesn't retire as an archaeologist. No reason given for why he retires.

Data is brought back, personality intact, despite Data's fears of losing his personality if he were shutdown to study his mind in TNG, and despite B4 being less advanced. Positronic minds form unique structures once they stabilize, it should be impossible for Data's personality to assert itself in B4 since it won't have been transferred, as only memories were uploaded by Data.

Laforge leaving Starfleet, again for no given reason.

Dismantling the fleet's combat capability... again! Despite what was an assured loss at Dominion hands, if not for the most blatant Deus Ex Machina ever, and several Borg incursions.

The Enterprise-E is not a warship. Bull.

Using the E-E as a test platform, even though the sensors in question were supposed to have already been tested on the Luna class. Why isn't this written as a straight upgrade, or at least a test upgrade that might be performed on the rest of the Sovereign class?

[Flatfingers]

Now that is what I'm talking about. Stories about characters.

That's writing the history -- future -- um... future history? -- of Star Trek the way it should be told: through the lives of action-oriented characters in the right place at the right time to influence events.

Nicely done!

Key points:

1. Beverly Crusher commands the Pasteur. This not only confirms the canonicity of the Olympic class (at least within Star Trek Online), it raises the question: is the future set on a course toward the events of "All Good Things..." as seen from the perspective of the year 2395? Will Worf die? Will Crusher and Picard marry (and then divorce)? Will Riker command a three-nacelled dreadnought version of the Enterprise? Or have events already changed in the past so that none of these future events are inevitable?

2. Why are non-Klingons being exiled from Khitomer? Deporting non-Klingons from any world would be serious, but Khitomer has special significance for relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

3. Data's back! Data's back! (Why do I care? I'm not sure I can say... I just do care, and I don't mind admitting it.)

4. I told you Sela was up to no good, didn't I? Next step: installation of a puppet Praetor, with herself as the power behind the throne. And after that? Donatra.

5. Marie Durant: the Neville "Peace In Our Time" Chamberlain of the 25th century?

6. Annika Hansen: the Winston "We Shall Never Surrender" Churchill of the 25th century?

"I should not speak to you, my friends, fellow countrymen, in this way, if I were not prepared to declare to you some of the measures of preparation by which I believe another great war may be averted and our destruction be prevented should war come. First, we must without another day's delay begin to make ourselves at least the strongest air power in the European world. By this means we shall recover to a very large extent the safety which we formerly enjoyed through our navy, and through our being an island." -- Churchill, warning the people of Britain of the Nazi threat, 1934.

"Our loyal, brave people... should know the truth. They should know that there has been a gross neglect and deficiency in our defences; they should know that we have sustained a defeat without a war, the consequences of which will travel far with us along our road... and do not suppose that this is the end. This is only the beginning of the reckoning. This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of the bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year, unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in olden time." -- Churchill, from his speech in protest against the Munich settlement, 1938.

"The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us now. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, 'This was their finest hour.'" -- Churchill, "Their Finest Hour", June 18, 1940.

So will history, as it so often seems to do, repeat itself? Is the Federation the last, best hope of the entire galaxy against a new and final Dark Age lit only by the (possibly green) glow of "perverted science?"

Kestrel... you have got one fun job.

--Flatfingers

[djnattyd]

Laforge leaving Starfleet, again for no given reason.

He didn't he left the Enterprise to work on his own starship designs

[Wardog00]

Why are so many people crying about Picard becoming an ambassador. In 2385 Picard would be 81. Most people 81 years old can't even wipe their own butt let alone be digging for artifacts. Give it a rest. It is an honorable path and on befitting a great diplomat that he is.

[djnattyd]

Why are so many people crying about Picard becoming an ambassador. In 2385 Picard would be 81. Most people 81 years old can't even wipe their own butt let alone be digging for artifacts. Give it a rest. It is an honorable path and on befitting a great diplomat that he is.

Also, why are people moaning about Data being back, when before they wanted him back?

[amb]

Thanks for the update Awen. And thanks for making me translating the whole, incredibly long, story of 2385! :P
Nicely done, indeed. Lots of stuff to read and I wonder where this will lead to. You seem to have a strong focus on the Romulans.

[Church01]

Great update Awen makes a lot of stuff to read and good information cant wait to see what the romulans do about remus.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

The Klingons expel all non-citizens for no reason.



2. Why are non-Klingons being exiled from Khitomer? Deporting non-Klingons from any world would be serious, but Khitomer has special significance for relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

I had to look this up, personally. In The Path to 2409: 2382, the Klingon Empire took military control of Khitomer, putting them in a position to impose their will on the planet.

Also, why are people moaning about Data being back, when before they wanted him back?

For what it's worth, I always had hoped that Data would be allowed to rest in peace.

[Mjoellnir]

1. Beverly Crusher commands the Pasteur. This not only confirms the canonicity of the Olympic class (at least within Star Trek Online), it raises the question: is the future set on a course toward the events of "All Good Things..." as seen from the perspective of the year 2395? Will Worf die? Will Crusher and Picard marry (and then divorce)? Will Riker command a three-nacelled dreadnought version of the Enterprise? Or have events already changed in the past so that none of these future events are inevitable?

No, it simply means that Captain Beverly Crusher is a competent officer who got the command over a medical frigate regardless of all the changes to that possible timeline. Nothing else.:)

2. Why are non-Klingons being exiled from Khitomer? Deporting non-Klingons from any world would be serious, but Khitomer has special significance for relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

As far as I understood till now the Romulans conquered Khitomer. The Klingons took it back "last year" and expelled the Romulan colonists. I'm rather wondering why the Federation took them in.:confused:

[JeanNYGUARD]

Awen you have no idea how long I was waiting for this. I check the website everyday for any new updates. And Finally yesterday I saw it pop up :) ... YEY

AMAZING PATH TO 2409. CANT WAIT FOR 2386... in MARCH :)

[fireraven]

No, it simply means that Captain Beverly Crusher is a competent officer who got the command over a medical frigate regardless of all the changes to that possible timeline. Nothing else.:)



As far as I understood till now the Romulans conquered Khitomer. The Klingons took it back "last year" and expelled the Romulan colonists. I'm rather wondering why the Federation took them in.:confused:
maybe after all the turmoil in the Romulan Empire they didn't feel safe or weren't wanted back on Romulus?

[Awarkle]

if you want to find out what happens to the voyager crew read "the father shore" and i think "homecomign". it explains that basically when the ship returns its instantly put into dry dock to be asset stripped for the future technologies they aquired. Jane way is promoted to admiral and effectivly the crew is broken up.

Seven of Nine goes to live with the one remaining relative she has an elderly aunt. The doctor is arested for being a holographic terrorist (based on the story photons be free) icheb enroles in starfleet acadamy but gets into all sorts of problems because he is blamed for the battle of wolf 359. (lots of folks died)

and to set it all off people are being randomly assimilated and they blame both icheb and seven who are prevented from returning to voyager for regeneration. Which sort of shafts them. (its the plot behind the plot) the doctor is threatened with deletion because loads of holograms have read the book and set up revolts which seems a bit bizare but anyways.

lots of plot twists and in the end janeway gives chakotay command of the USS voyager. But both good books explains a lot.

Very good timeline explanation, i never understood why they killed off data at the end of nemesis it seems to be a bit self destructive but i suppose you cant keep having the same crew stay alive all the time :P

but other than that seems to be a good read cant wait for the next one.

[Mysticone622]

Actually we do see Wesley in Nemesis. He is sat at the end of the table with his mum at Troi's and Riker's wedding. He is also wearing the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer for that era.

Not only that but Wesley wore the rank of Lieutenant, and other scenes that were cut for time that have not been released on dvd yet.


Never understand why people give the character so much trouble...He was modeled after Gene, and was made to drawn in the "Next Generation"/"Younger" Fans like I was in 1987.

[SupremeLegate]

There are actualy two non-cannon reason for his appearance at Riker and Trois wedding, one is from a deleted scene and the other is from one of the books in the A Tiime To... novels;

Deleted Scene
In a deleted scene from the Special Edition DVD of Star Trek Nemesis, Wesley explains at the wedding scene that he was being assigned to the USS Titan under Captain William Riker as part of the Engineering team. No explanation for his return from his journey with The Traveler was given.

A Time To...
In the "A Time To..." novel series, Wesley remained a traveler and was in a Starfleet uniform at Riker and Troi's wedding because he had appeared on Earth naked, expecting a Betazoid wedding and so Picard had a uniform beamed down from the Enterprise for Wesley.

As for why everyone hate him, it is becuase the writers made it seem like he was smarter than the trained and seasoned crew of the Enterprise, Wil Wheaton is even qoated as saying that was a bad idea.

"The character of Wesley was accused of always saving the Enterprise, however Wil Wheaton, defends this aspect of the character during an interview on DVD special features, saying that Wesley only saved the ship 'one and a half times' although in his reviews of early TNG episodes, Wheaton understands where the fan's hatred comes from and lays the blame firmly at the feet of the writers for giving him such dialogue that makes Wesley seem so pretentious and (in the case of the episode TNG: "The Battle"), having Wesley deduce the answer from just "glancing" at sensor readings made everyone else (including in Wheaton's own words, "the hypersmart robot") look ridiculous and that even Wheaton hated Wesley after these kinds of scenes. "


Read here for more info, http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Wesley_Crusher


Now as for the topic at hand; I really like the whole Path to 2409, I read them as soon as I see them. Though is there a set time table for each ones release or is it more random?

[Mysticone622]

Isaw his name in the credits, but i could never remember where he was in the movie. now i know.

I think you need the Wide Screen verison on a Wide screen TV... I remember seeing him on the Big Screen but because I had a normal TV he was cut out...he sits next to his mom at the head table.

on the big screen I was able to see Wes, Tell what uniform and rank he was wear. I was 7 years old during season 1(87/88) Wesley drew me into the show...which I would bet money was one of the reason Gene made and loved the character so much. Fresh Blood...

[Thalasi]

Ive really enjoyed reading this series so far. The way its told I can almost see a movie of these events in my head while reading. I especially loved to mention of Beverly Crusher getting command of the Pasteur, it was a nice touch that most people have forgotten about. That kind of dedication to detail gives me great hope for the future of this game and I cant wait to see more.

[Loekii]

Wheaton seems to have made a career of vo's in video games -

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (2006) (VG) (voice) Richard Burns.
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (2005) (VG) (voice) .... Richard Burns .
Rainbow Six: Lockdown .
Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter.
# Ghost Recon 2.
EverQuest II (2004) (VG) (voice) .... Festus Septimus/Overseer Zerrin/Merchant William/Innkeeper Valean .
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004) (VG) (voice) .... Richard Burns - Talk Radio
. Maybe he will do some of the voices in STO?

[Captain_Intrepid]

THANKS :) good stuff!

Well it looks like the Borg are the "ancient threat."

If by ancient, you mean about 40 years, then yeah, that would be ancient.:eek:

This is more of an example of one of the threats that was foolishly considered to be rendered harmless.

There are plenty of examples of ancient threats to the galaxy, such as the creators of the Doomsday Machine.


I'm very happy that it appears that android characters may be a possibility for players. But I wonder if they are just going to wind up as a new NPC 'species'.


I'm also glad the Remans look to be becoming more acceptable as part of the Romulan Empire (instead of merely powerful cannonfodder). I've been intending on making a Romulan captain/commander someday, and the choice of having a Reman'll will mean I'd have more than one from that faction :)

I still have a feeling that Sela's going to go for another powerplay soon.


Exiling non-Klingons from Khitomer's a good sign of things to come, esp. with Factions becoming more polarized.


It's interesting to see a facet of the alternate future come to fruition with Dr. Crusher becoming the captain of the USS Pasteur (sp?).

I wonder if that class of ship will become available for players to use?

[Mjoellnir]

if you want to find out what happens to the voyager crew read "the father shore" and i think "homecomign". it explains that basically when the ship returns its instantly put into dry dock to be asset stripped for the future technologies they aquired. Jane way is promoted to admiral and effectivly the crew is broken up.

Seven of Nine goes to live with the one remaining relative she has an elderly aunt. The doctor is arested for being a holographic terrorist (based on the story photons be free) icheb enroles in starfleet acadamy but gets into all sorts of problems because he is blamed for the battle of wolf 359. (lots of folks died)

and to set it all off people are being randomly assimilated and they blame both icheb and seven who are prevented from returning to voyager for regeneration. Which sort of shafts them. (its the plot behind the plot) the doctor is threatened with deletion because loads of holograms have read the book and set up revolts which seems a bit bizare but anyways.

lots of plot twists and in the end janeway gives chakotay command of the USS voyager. But both good books explains a lot.

Very good timeline explanation, i never understood why they killed off data at the end of nemesis it seems to be a bit self destructive but i suppose you cant keep having the same crew stay alive all the time :P

but other than that seems to be a good read cant wait for the next one.

I'm happy that Cryptic ignores most of the non-canon novels, after the Vegas Webcast I was afraid that they would copy crap like that (Doctor a terrorist, Janeway becomes new Borg Queen, Borgs go "Assimilation is futile, you will be annihilated!" etc.).:D

[Laibcoms]

Awesome update :) I don't exactly understand the need to resurrect Data though, but, since they've declared the movies canon and they did resurrect Data in the new Star Trek movie according to the prequel comic, I guess Cryptic can't back out on that, hehe good read though.

Ok, I'm confused. Star Trek XI in relation to timeline is during the time of Captain Christopher Pike, Data can't be "resurrected" since he hasn't "died" yet in that time period.

Are there information about the plotline of ST11? What you're saying is that ST11 is more about "telling the story of Capt. Pike in the present timeline, and in that present time, Data is back".

[Mjoellnir]

Ok, I'm confused. Star Trek XI in relation to timeline is during the time of Captain Christopher Pike, Data can't be "resurrected" since he hasn't "died" yet in that time period.

Are there information about the plotline of ST11? What you're saying is that ST11 is more about "telling the story of Capt. Pike in the present timeline, and in that present time, Data is back".

Okay, since you ask I spoil. The enemy of Kirk is a Romulan from the future whose story is told in the official prequel comics where we meet him, Spock, Captain Data and Ambassador Picard.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40202

[Fernos]

Okay I think we can dub Kestrel the D.C. Fontana of Cryptic :)

Awesome, awesome update...I am beyond pleased that Cryptic is putting so much into story...it shows that they really understand what it will take to make the game a huge sucsess.

[Trelane]

If Crytic really wanted to tie into "possible" Next Gen canon "futures"(i.e. Beverly Crusher being made captain of the Pastuer actually coming to pass), they would bring back Capt. Riker from the Tian and make him the next Captain of the Enterprise E(he likely will become a Starfleet admiral in this timeline and since admirals can choose their own starships anyway...).It only makes sense and i cannot picture ANYONE else being given the reigns over the Enterprise E after Picard but Riker.I'd hate to see some "made up" character given command of the Enterprise E.It would seem shallow and meaningless and an unfit move.The Enterprise E should only ever have been under the command of Picard and if he were to retire, then Riker.Imo, sans Data(who is REALLY dead), noone else deserves command of the ship.It would also serve as a way to give the "Riker" and "Troi" characters a meaningful mission(place)in the STO universe, while at the same time removing them from the STO area of play(the Enterprise E will be on the front line of exploration and therefoe not likely to
play any major role in the events or "goings on" in STO).

[jbarker82]

If Crytic really wanted to tie into "possible" Next Gen canon "futures"(i.e. Beverly Crusher being made captain of the Pastuer actually coming to pass), they would bring back Capt. Riker from the Tian and make him the next Captain of the Enterprise E(he likely will become a Starfleet admiral in this timeline and since admirals can choose their own starships anyway...).It only makes sense and i cannot picture ANYONE else being given the reigns over the Enterprise E after Picard but Riker.I'd hate to see some "made up" character given command of the Enterprise E.It would seem shallow and meaningless and an unfit move.The Enterprise E should only ever have been under the command of Picard and if he were to retire, then Riker.Imo, sans Data(who is REALLY dead), noone else deserves command of the ship.It would also serve as a way to give the "Riker" and "Troi" characters a meaningful mission(place)in the STO universe, while at the same time removing them from the STO area of play(the Enterprise E will be on the front line of exploration and therefoe not likely to
play any major role in the events or "goings on" in STO).

According to Star Trek: Countdown Data is in command of the Enterprise-E (presumably after getting his memories and things back after they unlocked the 'data matrix' in B-4). Also there has been mention of the Luna class ship in this latest 'Path to 2409' which leads me to believe that Cryptic will keep Will Riker as Captain of the USS Titan.

[Mjoellnir]

Well, as far as I know Captain Data is set 8 years after Nemesis I think we play 22 years later. And I don't think that Riker will sit 30 years on the Titan, he will probably get another ship someday. We'll see how everything turns out.;)

[joecool280]

Heres my take on it, sorry I havent read all 17 pages so I dont know if someones said this before, firstly, the Data thing, nonononono, Data's sacrifice was touching and symbolic, by reasurecting him, that makes that sacrifice meaningless. Next, I wasn't surprised when I read Picard was retiring, he is getting on people, hes not invincible! Finally, I presume with Captain "Ahab" Picard gone from the anti-borg taskforce, it would have been very easy for the beuracrats at Starfleet command to get rid of it, listen to Seven! She knows the Borg better than anyone so if she says the Borg will be returning, believe her!! Im currently finishing off the Destiny series so I believe that this alternate timeline is occuring because something severly hampered the Borgs preperations for invasion, perhaps species 8472 re-appeared, now resistant to the Borgs modified nanoprobes perhaps? Whatever the reason, it is obvious the Borg will be coming en-mass and dismantling the anti-Borg fleet is probably one of Starfleets greatest mistakes, its like leaving the gates of Troy wide open for the Greeks.

[Kenderoth]

It's pretty easy to take 2409 and minus it might 2085 and get 24, and since they com out with one countdown article ever month that's two years. So i hope it comes out no longer then that but them you think that damn this sounds like a big ass game, take your time the longer the better right.

[KL0k]

best part of the whole plot so far. thanks for it ^^

[Counselor_Zexx]

Great thread. Looking forward to more future future updates.

[IT_IS_GREEN]

Awesome. I'm sad that so many are leaving Starfleet, but I'm rejoicing now that Data might be coming back. I have an uneasy feeling that 7 of 9 is right. I'm a bit siappointed by the result of the Romulans, but I figure there'll have to be a war later. donatra has a full military support and Sela wants romulus for herself.
oh, Sela...when will you quit? I mean, I'm glad you're back, it makes things interesting, but Tasha Yar wasn't THIS tenacious!
overall, awesome. Could we have something about DS9 people?

[AnnikaHansen]

...The Borg will return....

[CherryTerri]

...The Borg will return....

Oh I'm fairly certain that they will.

[Jadetalon01]

This is really good, I like the idea of possibility of bringing back Data, I was actually doing a role playing scenario how they were able to get Data's memories from B-4 and build a new body for Data and bring him back...this is so cool that you people at Star Trek Online would do that. It's good to know that the Enterprise crew is still doing something for the Federation, but what about Captain Riker and his wife Deanna who are commanding the Titian, will we hear anything about them; also will former Captain Picard and the now Captain Crusher get together?

[Whisky]

Always good to read an update

[SirReginaldo]

This is really good, I like the idea of possibility of bringing back Data, I was actually doing a role playing scenario how they were able to get Data's memories from B-4 and build a new body for Data and bring him back...this is so cool that you people at Star Trek Online would do that. It's good to know that the Enterprise crew is still doing something for the Federation, but what about Captain Riker and his wife Deanna who are commanding the Titian, will we hear anything about them; also will former Captain Picard and the now Captain Crusher get together?

Were they ever truly together?:confused:

[Lolcutus]

If Geordi Laforge is doing his own thing testing his own ship designs, perhaps we as the players could get a chance to work out some of the kinks for him in STO?

[Ptahk]

An enjoyable read human. But don't think this makes us friends. Kapla!:D

[onesoul1982]

I think that it's the best timeline yet. :)



Awesome

wondering if you'll do any update with Kes? We last saw her try and change the past on Voyager but not much after that.

[Trelane]

According to Star Trek: Countdown Data is in command of the Enterprise-E (presumably after getting his memories and things back after they unlocked the 'data matrix' in B-4). Also there has been mention of the Luna class ship in this latest 'Path to 2409' which leads me to believe that Cryptic will keep Will Riker as Captain of the USS Titan.


One thing about unlocking the "Data Matrix" bothers me.The "real" Data is truely dead imo.If the "original"
Data truely was a unique sentient being, then this HAS TO be the case.If Data is nothing more than a 'file"
or program that can animate any Soong type android, then that not only cheapens the sacrifice he made but also cheapens the evolution of the character.As for Riker, considering the future that is unfolding it is likely that he is now a Starfleet Admiral and since Admiral's can choose their own ship it would only be likely that Riker would choose the Enterprise E as his command ship.It wouldn't really matter if a reconstitued Data/B4 was Captain of the ship, as Kirk did with the Enterprise in Trek:WoK, the Admiral can take command of the ship at
any time if he wants.

[Mjoellnir]

One thing about unlocking the "Data Matrix" bothers me.The "real" Data is truely dead imo.If the "original"
Data truely was a unique sentient being, then this HAS TO be the case.If Data is nothing more than a 'file"
or program that can animate any Soong type android, then that not only cheapens the sacrifice he made but also cheapens the evolution of the character.As for Riker, considering the future that is unfolding it is likely that he is now a Starfleet Admiral and since Admiral's can choose their own ship it would only be likely that Riker would choose the Enterprise E as his command ship.It wouldn't really matter if a reconstitued Data/B4 was Captain of the ship, as Kirk did with the Enterprise in Trek:WoK, the Admiral can take command of the ship at
any time if he wants.

Spock did pretty much the same thing, just that his old dead body got reanimated without memories or personality. He saved his soul and memories in Dr. McCoy. Data ist a KI, and he loaded everything he was into the less developed B4. It does in no way cheapen his sacrifice, because he didn't knew that he could come back, and it does not cheapen the evolution of the character, since he still knows everything up to Nemesis (which is a crappy movie, that you best shouldn't remember). That Data wasn't saved by mystical Vulcan mind-meld techniques but by him being a technological wonder doesn't make him any less valuable. If you really think so I recommend you watch "The Measure Of A Man" and "The Offspring".

[RetroX]

I liked it, it was a nice update. It was good story, nice to know what's going on in the federation...you know one of the two playable factions rather than the Romulans.

I do have a small problem with Picard suddenly giving up command of the enterprise to become an ambassdor to vulcan, how odd...it just dosnt seem like Picard.

[cv_coco]

We had to wait a while for this one, but it was more then worth the wait! Things are starting to get interesting :)

[Wardog00]

An enjoyable read human. But don't think this makes us friends. Kapla!:D


Can all you "Wanna be" Klingons please learn to spell your own Language it's Qapla'! NOT Kapla. Must be Humans in the Empire.

[Loekii]

Can all you "Wanna be" Klingons please learn to spell your own Language it's Qapla'! NOT Kapla. Must be Humans in the Empire.

Aren't their numerous dialects? meh, you all sound alike, almost as bad as the federation.

[pyriel32]

Can all you "Wanna be" Klingons please learn to spell your own Language it's Qapla'! NOT Kapla. Must be Humans in the Empire.

ROFLMAO..........

[Qnaz]

Can all you "Wanna be" Klingons please learn to spell your own Language it's Qapla'! NOT Kapla. Must be Humans in the Empire.

That's okay. Judging by what we've seen on the boards, there are some humans who ignore spelling and proper grammar of their language as well. :D

Getting back to the timeline update, I was hoping to hear news from the Gorn front. There's still 207 Klingons warriors that need to be answered for. It is good to hear that Worf is back with the Empire, though I was hoping he'd take a seat on the council. Now we hear he's tamed the heart of the mighty Grilka. He always seems to get the ladies.

[StraboV2]

I believe a retaliation strike against the Gorn is in order. It is good news the Romulans have grown in strength once more. They might make for more interesting targets. It is unfortunate that they seem to have averted a civil war though. So much could have been gained for the Empire should that have come to pass.

I believe Works efforts will be in vain however. He is much too fond of the Federation. He should take up arms and let the pieces fall where they may, and not waste time with all the fake smiles and promises of diplomacy.

[CaptainQuirk]

it looks to me like you need other people writing this, Picard would never take up an Ambassador role let alone resign, i think maybe some of you should go watch movie 7 Generations.

and all this reviving of data what has happened to B4??

Actually, in "All Good Things," when Geordi came to visit old man Picard, there was the reference to Picard having been an ambasador. And we also have to remember that Picard carried Sarek's consciousness for a shor time, and even though it was temporary, it surely gave him strong insight into the Vulcan side of diplomacy. We also have to remember that aside from commanding a Starship, Picard is an accomplished diplomat. Taking all these into account, him becoming the Federation Ambasador to Vulcan makes a great deal of sense.

As to who it is that talks him into it, it would have to be someone who shares a connection to both him and to Vulcan. That can only be Spock.

Regarding the Data/B4 issue, it only makes sense that the Data would return this way. I mean come on... Why make it a point to stress that Data's memories and experiences were transferred into B4, and then turn around and kill off Data, if there wasn't some intent (or at least a loophole) for him to come back. To me, it's more obvious than the way they brought Spock back. And also, In "All Good Things..." Data was there, though at this point, he was a university professor. He also had gray in his hair (looks like a ****** skunk). And he spoke using verbal contractions, something he wasn't originally programmed to do...

So advancements in positronic technology would explain these things.

Granted, we cannot go with everything seen in "All Good Things..." as the Enterprise-D is gone, and Troi didn't die. But Data, who was canonically preserved in B4, could plausibly be restored... In time to be a professor and Captain of the Enterprise-E, whichever comes first...

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

Regarding the Data/B4 issue, it only makes sense that the Data would return this way. I mean come on... Why make it a point to stress that Data's memories and experiences were transferred into B4, and then turn around and kill off Data, if there wasn't some intent (or at least a loophole) for him to come back. To me, it's more obvious than the way they brought Spock back. And also, In "All Good Things..." Data was there, though at this point, he was a university professor. He also had gray in his hair (looks like a ****** skunk). And he spoke using verbal contractions, something he wasn't originally programmed to do...

So advancements in positronic technology would explain these things.

With regards to the how and the why of the B4/Data relationship, you're entirely correct. It's plainly obvious that the writers' and producers' of Nemesis didn't want viewers to believe that Data's personality was lost forever. And, to be sure, it was abundantly obvious that given an opportunity, future Trek authors would cater to the character's enormous popularity by walking through the door that Nemesis left open. As far as the quality of the writing on Cryptic's part, the matter of the "Data matrix" abundantly meets the high standards they've set for themselves.

That isn't the crux of my objection, which relates to whether Data ought to be resurrected. I had hoped that Star Trek Online would avoid the temptation to walk through that open door, as a departure from the safe, stale, and inconsequential storytelling that had so come to mark later Star Trek. I will good naturedly confess that I didn't really expect them to do so, for a multitude of reasons - but I had hoped. To borrow from the text of Jurassic Park, "Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean you must do a thing."

As is so often the case (and curse) with Star Trek, in the matter of Data, even the most drastic actions had only the most minimal of consequences. In the matter of Spock and Star Trek II, Spock was killed in the belief that his character had come to an end because Leonard Nimoy was intent on departing the continuing franchise. Both the studio and the franchise so committed to fact of the character's death that they'd hired a different actor, Kirstie Alley, to replace Spock on the bridge of the Enterprise. It was only Nimoy's ultimate change of heart that resurrected his character. By constrast, despite Brent Spiner's desire to retire his character and the expected end of the Next Generation portion of the film franchise, the "B4 loophole" was inserted for no purpose that I can determine other than to avoid the controversy and hurt feelings.

Earlier in the thread, another poster suggested that to "discover the 'Data matrix'" did not compromise the essence of Data's storyline, and cited two of the more essential entries on the character, "The Offspring" and "Measure of a Man." Judicial rulings like that of the Starfleet magistrate in "Measure of a Man" are, as we know, subject to future review - and unfortunately, to argue that Data's personality can subsume B4's (as limited as that personality might at first appear) flips that ruling on its head and seems to prove Commander Maxwell's case that Data really was no more than a collection of parts and subroutines. The allegory most used is the transfer of Spock's katra to McCoy, but of course, McCoy did not become Spock; at this stage in the story, whatever B4 was or might have become appears to have been replaced by a more efficient, more effective, more functional, more desirable personality.

That's the essence of a computer, not a man.

I certainly don't begrudge Cryptic, and certainly not Kestrel, for conceding to the obvious popularity of the character Data. But I do wonder if there were not - and, with future editions of the story on the way, are not - ways of fulfilling that imperative without so directly contravening what seems to have been the essential message of that character and his experiences.

[ronaldheld]

The last update was more useful information.

[Mjoellnir]

That isn't the crux of my objection, which relates to whether Data ought to be resurrected. I had hoped that Star Trek Online would avoid the temptation to walk through that open door, as a departure from the safe, stale, and inconsequential storytelling that had so come to mark later Star Trek. I will good naturedly confess that I didn't really expect them to do so, for a multitude of reasons - but I had hoped. To borrow from the text of Jurassic Park, "Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean you must do a thing."

That has nothing to do with Cryptic. Data was ressurected in the official prequel comics for Star Trek XI, and Cryptic simply put it in their storyline....

Earlier in the thread, another poster suggested that to "discover the 'Data matrix'" did not compromise the essence of Data's storyline, and cited two of the more essential entries on the character, "The Offspring" and "Measure of a Man." Judicial rulings like that of the Starfleet magistrate in "Measure of a Man" are, as we know, subject to future review - and unfortunately, to argue that Data's personality can subsume B4's (as limited as that personality might at first appear) flips that ruling on its head and seems to prove Commander Maxwell's case that Data really was no more than a collection of parts and subroutines. The allegory most used is the transfer of Spock's katra to McCoy, but of course, McCoy did not become Spock; at this stage in the story, whatever B4 was or might have become appears to have been replaced by a more efficient, more effective, more functional, more desirable personality.

My point was partly that B4 is not able to evolve. He was completely static. Sure, he could talk, but that's something computers can do to in the future. It's more something like Dr Haynus from Evil Inc., someone who had his brain transplanted on a dog after his body was killed. If Picard would have sat there and tried to defend B4 he would've lost, because B4 isn't self-aware. He's really nothing but a strong talking automaton build to resemble a human. The only initiative he ever showed was picking up an object and looking at it or asking dumb questions without understanding the answers.
You don't seem to remember how McCoy started to talk about logic and tried to nerve pinch a Starfleet officer. Additionally Vulcans had a ritual and a name for the katra-transmission, so they must've used it for something. And rebirth shouldn't be a very common occurence.

That's the essence of a computer, not a man.

You argue like Riker and Maddox. He can do things humans can't do so he doesn't have human rights. It does not make Data less human just because he can download his personality in an android body that was pretty much build like him. Hell, in the comics Spock even discusses with him how similar their experience is.

[CinC-UFPForces-Cardassia]

To the question of the Countdown comic series, that work and its content is a licensed Star Trek product, just as Star Trek Online is. For that reason, its content is considered soft canon - and Cryptic can choose to accept or ignore what's contained therein. I don't mean to debate the merits of Countdown, but rather to point out that it's essentially irrelevant to the discussion that you and I are having.

With that in mind, the remainder of your post essentially constitutes the core of the debate over this subject. I, for one, accept as correct the finding of the Starfleet magistrate in Measure of a Man that Data was, in fact, a sentient being, rather than the property of Starfleet. My concern has been that the pressure to "resurrect" Data, and the decision to do so, undermines rather than reinforces that decision. That relates, in part, to how B4 "became" Data; according to The Path to 2409, B4 spent the previous six years in study at the Daystrom Institute (a fate similar to that which Data was spared from).

Did B4 choose to be studied in this way? Data made a choice to refuse to submit; was B4 even asked? Did he understand what the purpose of the Institute's examination was to be - to replace his personality with a "fully functional" one?

These are questions that aren't likely to be addressed, but I raise them to make this point. We simply do not know what B4, the individual, could have been given time; we cannot say that he's "nothing but a strong talking automaton" because of the extraordinarily limited time the audience spent with the character. Clearly, B4 was not given the opportunity to find out if he could evolve. It seems to me that B4's case cannot be proven to be anything different than that of an individual with mental development disabilities - and while it is entirely ethical to utilize medical science to aid that person's interface with society, even the science of partially modifying such a person's personality through pharmaceuticals or others techniques is extraordinarily controversial. What to say of totally changing that individual's personality in even a well-intentioned attempt to make them "better"?

If we argue that this is acceptable in the case of B4, then indeed I would say that that represents the "Maddox" side of the equation - that the Soong-type androids represent not sentient beings but property, devoid of individual independence or worth.

I don't seek necessarily to change minds, but rather to offer the countervailing viewpoint. On the one hand, this represents an opportunity for Cryptic, as it really represents one of the burning philosophical debates of the Trek universe, and one that could be pursued in the course of the game's storyline.

One final point: I would repeat and reiterate my point that the transfer of Spock's katra to McCoy and the "resurrection" of Data are very different, both practically and philosophically. I remember clearly, as you point out, that McCoy began to express Spock's personality as it intruded on his own - but it intruded on McCoy's personality, as if he was split. It did not replace McCoy. This incident is obvious precedent for Data, but to be sure, it is no direct comparison.

[Mjoellnir]

To the question of the Countdown comic series, that work and its content is a licensed Star Trek product, just as Star Trek Online is. For that reason, its content is considered soft canon - and Cryptic can choose to accept or ignore what's contained therein. I don't mean to debate the merits of Countdown, but rather to point out that it's essentially irrelevant to the discussion that you and I are having.

But we don't know how much of that will become hard canon when the movie is released. One mention of a Captain Data by Spock would make it hard canon, even though I don't know how they would fit it in the past, but we'll see.

Did B4 choose to be studied in this way? Data made a choice to refuse to submit; was B4 even asked? Did he understand what the purpose of the Institute's examination was to be - to replace his personality with a "fully functional" one?

B4 did not choose to be studied in this way, and he didn't understand what the purpose was. However I think it was not their purpose to get Data out there (except LaForge maybe), I think they wanted to learn how to build Soong-androids and it seems they didn't take him apart like Maddox intended. Just out of curiousity, did you already think that way when Data loaded himself up into him to improve him? B4 did not ask for it, and if it had worked it would've turned him into somebody with Data's whole experience and development, essentially into a copy with a few child-like additional memorys. Where's the difference between what Data did then and what Data and the Soong Foundation did now?

These are questions that aren't likely to be addressed, but I raise them to make this point. We simply do not know what B4, the individual, could have been given time; we cannot say that he's "nothing but a strong talking automaton" because of the extraordinarily limited time the audience spent with the character. Clearly, B4 was not given the opportunity to find out if he could evolve. It seems to me that B4's case cannot be proven to be anything different than that of an individual with mental development disabilities - and while it is entirely ethical to utilize medical science to aid that person's interface with society, even the science of partially modifying such a person's personality through pharmaceuticals or others techniques is extraordinarily controversial. What to say of totally changing that individual's personality in even a well-intentioned attempt to make them "better"?

What we know is that Dr. Soong didn't keep him. That he build him before both Lore and Data. There should have been a reason for that. When was B4 build? When did Soong discard or lose him? Why? Why didn't B4 have the return switch Data and Lore had? To me it seems that Soong got rid of B4 because he didn't evolve. He was a failure. We know that B4 is older than Data and laid only shortly on that planet where the Enterprise-E found him. So what did he do all the time that he is still the moron we see in Nemesis when he was able to evolve? Of course you can argue, that he was some kind of mentally disabled, but I actually worked with mentally disabled. And the difference is that they actually still live. They have fun, play games, like some foods better than others, understand some things, try to understand other things, make jokes, have social contacts. B4 does nothing of that.

If we argue that this is acceptable in the case of B4, then indeed I would say that that represents the "Maddox" side of the equation - that the Soong-type androids represent not sentient beings but property, devoid of individual independence or worth.

See, that's where I make a difference. An android isn't a sentient being because he looks like human. An android isn't a sentient being because he was built by Noonien Soong. Lore, Data and Juliana Tainer were sentient Soong-type androids. Ruk, Andrea and Roger Korby were sentient androids. The first two because they evolved and the third one because he had downloaded human thought processes (even though there were some personality changes). B4 is an android, but he's not sentient.

I don't seek necessarily to change minds, but rather to offer the countervailing viewpoint. On the one hand, this represents an opportunity for Cryptic, as it really represents one of the burning philosophical debates of the Trek universe, and one that could be pursued in the course of the game's storyline.

Personally I hope that they learn enough to build new androids and the first two are Lal and B4 who are downloaded from Data. Sure that's not the philosophical debate you would like, but a happy end.

One final point: I would repeat and reiterate my point that the transfer of Spock's katra to McCoy and the "resurrection" of Data are very different, both practically and philosophically. I remember clearly, as you point out, that McCoy began to express Spock's personality as it intruded on his own - but it intruded on McCoy's personality, as if he was split. It did not replace McCoy. This incident is obvious precedent for Data, but to be sure, it is no direct comparison.

Yes, and in Nemesis Data began a very weak intrusion when B4 began to sing that song. Now the Soong Foundation got him out completely. And there are more parallels. Spock was reborn without his katra in a manner that is very similar to B4. A body with the most basic of functions. Muscle control, breathing, mating instinct when he hit the right age etc. B4 was obviously build with the hope that if you have a blank slate with a few functions he could evolve. His constant child-like questioning and urge to take up and examine things seem to point that way. But it somehow didn't work and he didn't become smarter with experience. But he's somehow very similar to Spock as child, both are base templates for the persons that were reborn within them.
But that's just my philosiphical interpretation. The nice thing about philosophy is that everybody can have his own.;)

[Loekii]

Doh! I just figured out why there wasnt anything in the news about the Gorns.

They ate the reporter! :eek:

[Trelane]

Spock did pretty much the same thing, just that his old dead body got reanimated without memories or personality. He saved his soul and memories in Dr. McCoy. Data ist a KI, and he loaded everything he was into the less developed B4. It does in no way cheapen his sacrifice, because he didn't knew that he could come back, and it does not cheapen the evolution of the character, since he still knows everything up to Nemesis (which is a crappy movie, that you best shouldn't remember). That Data wasn't saved by mystical Vulcan mind-meld techniques but by him being a technological wonder doesn't make him any less valuable. If you really think so I recommend you watch "The Measure Of A Man" and "The Offspring".

Spock's corpse was still reanimated by the Genesis Wave matrix and later rejoined with his Katra(which he placed into McCoy's consciousness when he said "remember" while dying in STTWoK).All Data did in Nemesis was copy over a set of his instructions and memory files to B4).The real Data sacrificed himself to save Picard at the end of Nemesis and was blown into dust.Everything he was is GONE.The most B4 with integrated Data memories/instructions set could be is a near clone of the original Data.B4's original positronic brain wasn't nearly as advanced as Data's.It supposably wasn't even upgraded unitil (likely Geordi)unlocked (and somehow integrated enough of) Data's files to learn how to improve B4's positronic brain and nueral net enough to handle the Data programming.While this would be a copy of Data's programming,expiriences, and memory, it would in noway be the original Data.

Spock's soul(Katra)was reintgrated with his original body which was restored through the Genesis effect, the original Data(as i mentioned before)was blown into dust.One could say the same thing if somehow the Data files"matrix" were integrated into Lore's body.It might be a copy/clone of Data, but it's not THE original Data by any stretch.There were many storylines in Next Gen in it's seven years that explored whether Data was in fact a real "living,sentient being" or whether he was just the sum of extremely advanced programming and Soong android parts.I believe the answer was that he was a unique sentient being of which there was only one(Lore's programming being flawed and unfinished).There were other Soong androids with their own "personalities"(B4,Lore)and may be even more hidden away somewhere in the Galaxy, but as current canon dictates, the original Data(body,programming,esxpiriences,soul..whatever) is very dead.If they want to give B4 Data's expiriences and memories, that's fine, it just cannot be said truthfully that he is in fact Data.

[Loekii]

Never saw Data's sacrifice to be all that.

And I don't see much difference between Katra and Memory programing, other than ones biological and one is electronic. Just my opinion.

[nsl1987]

best one yet!

I love that Data is back. He was one of the top 4 best characters in star trek.

I don't like that Picard is no longer in command of the Enterprise, but I guess he isn't getting any younger. But of all places to spend his time after the Enterprise...VULCAN? Seriously? What did he do to **** off the President of the Federation? I mean, I like the Vulcans (Spock is another of the top 4), but that place has to be one of the most boring places in existance.

I hope the Enterprise E's look didn't change any. I like the new ship that looks like the sovereign, but I like the sovereign a little better. I definately want a Sovereign class in the game, and maybe a galaxy class for a little bit.

I would like to continue to hear updates on what happened to the characters from the series, and also what happens to the Enterprise.

[Mjoellnir]

Spock's corpse was still reanimated by the Genesis Wave matrix and later rejoined with his Katra(which he placed into McCoy's consciousness when he said "remember" while dying in STTWoK).

Just a really, really, really dumb question: What the hell would they have done with Spocks Katra if the Genesis effect wouldn't have revived Spock? There's no way Spock could know that he would be buried on Genesis and what effects it would have. So what were they supposed to do? Clone him and transfer his katra to the clone??? He wanted to be brought to Mount Seleya.

All Data did in Nemesis was copy over a set of his instructions and memory files to B4).The real Data sacrificed himself to save Picard at the end of Nemesis and was blown into dust.Everything he was is GONE.The most B4 with integrated Data memories/instructions set could be is a near clone of the original Data.B4's original positronic brain wasn't nearly as advanced as Data's.It supposably wasn't even upgraded unitil (likely Geordi)unlocked (and somehow integrated enough of) Data's files to learn how to improve B4's positronic brain and nueral net enough to handle the Data programming.While this would be a copy of Data's programming,expiriences, and memory, it would in noway be the original Data.

Funny how you say that. "Everything he was." Most people believe in some kind of immortal soul. And another body with Data's experiences, personality and knowledge wouldn't be a "near-clone". It would be Data. B4 was a near-clone of Data. They had exactly the same body, only the neural pathways were less developed. If the pathways are updated and Data's whole programming is in there it's Data. Where do you draw the line between copy and original? When the old body is destroyed? When the new body starts out less developed and is improved after that?

Spock's soul(Katra)was reintgrated with his original body which was restored through the Genesis effect, the original Data(as i mentioned before)was blown into dust.

Original body is kind of stretch, it seems he went through nearly all stages of aging until his original age was reached and he was beamed away. It's more of a clone who used his original body as material.

One could say the same thing if somehow the Data files"matrix" were integrated into Lore's body.It might be a copy/clone of Data, but it's not THE original Data by any stretch.

If Lore is overwritten it would be Data. 100% Just because it's not the body Soong made for him doesn't make him less Data. A being is a mix of inborn character traits and experiences. And Data is in the lucky position to load everything of that into another positronic brain that's somehow advanced enough to store it.

There were many storylines in Next Gen in it's seven years that explored whether Data was in fact a real "living,sentient being" or whether he was just the sum of extremely advanced programming and Soong android parts.I believe the answer was that he was a unique sentient being of which there was only one(Lore's programming being flawed and unfinished).

So? He's still a living sentient being. He has just transferred his programming into another Soong-type android. The possibility of doing that comes with what he is just like the ability to bend durasteel or calculate travel times on the last second. Just like the ability of Vulcans to store their Katra somewhere else.

There were other Soong androids with their own "personalities"(B4,Lore)and may be even more hidden away somewhere in the Galaxy, but as current canon dictates, the original Data(body,programming,esxpiriences,soul..whatever) is very dead.If they want to give B4 Data's expiriences and memories, that's fine, it just cannot be said truthfully that he is in fact Data.

Only the body of the original Data is dead. Programming and experiences are downloaded into the body of B4 and please do not bring the word soul into this discussion.

"It sits there looking at me, and I don't know what it is. This case has dealt with metaphysics, with questions best left to saints and philosophers. I am neither competent, nor qualified, to answer those. I've got to make a ruling – to try to speak to the future. Is Data a machine? Yes. Is he the property of Starfleet? No. We've all been dancing around the basic issue: does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have! But I have got to give him the freedom to explore that question himself. It is the ruling of this court that Lieutenant Commander Data has the freedom to choose."
- Captain Phillipa Louvois

Current canon doesn't dictate anything of what you're saying. It's just your interpretation of the events. One that obviously some people share, but neither the people that make the Story for Star Trek XI nor the writers of Cryptic, nor many Data-fans like me. You can think what you want but in Countdown or STO it doesn't matter. Data is alive.

[Trelane]

Just a really, really, really dumb question: What the hell would they have done with Spocks Katra if the Genesis effect wouldn't have revived Spock? There's no way Spock could know that he would be buried on Genesis and what effects it would have. So what were they supposed to do? Clone him and transfer his katra to the clone??? He wanted to be brought to Mount Seleya.



Funny how you say that. "Everything he was." Most people believe in some kind of immortal soul. And another body with Data's experiences, personality and knowledge wouldn't be a "near-clone". It would be Data. B4 was a near-clone of Data. They had exactly the same body, only the neural pathways were less developed. If the pathways are updated and Data's whole programming is in there it's Data. Where do you draw the line between copy and original? When the old body is destroyed? When the new body starts out less developed and is improved after that?



Original body is kind of stretch, it seems he went through nearly all stages of aging until his original age was reached and he was beamed away. It's more of a clone who used his original body as material.



If Lore is overwritten it would be Data. 100% Just because it's not the body Soong made for him doesn't make him less Data. A being is a mix of inborn character traits and experiences. And Data is in the lucky position to load everything of that into another positronic brain that's somehow advanced enough to store it.



So? He's still a living sentient being. He has just transferred his programming into another Soong-type android. The possibility of doing that comes with what he is just like the ability to bend durasteel or calculate travel times on the last second. Just like the ability of Vulcans to store their Katra somewhere else.



Only the body of the original Data is dead. Programming and experiences are downloaded into the body of B4 and please do not bring the word soul into this discussion.

"It sits there looking at me, and I don't know what it is. This case has dealt with metaphysics, with questions best left to saints and philosophers. I am neither competent, nor qualified, to answer those. I've got to make a ruling – to try to speak to the future. Is Data a machine? Yes. Is he the property of Starfleet? No. We've all been dancing around the basic issue: does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have! But I have got to give him the freedom to explore that question himself. It is the ruling of this court that Lieutenant Commander Data has the freedom to choose."
- Captain Phillipa Louvois

Current canon doesn't dictate anything of what you're saying. It's just your interpretation of the events. One that obviously some people share, but neither the people that make the Story for Star Trek XI nor the writers of Cryptic, nor many Data-fans like me. You can think what you want but in Countdown or STO it doesn't matter. Data is alive.

You can believe what you want.If the original Data were to have lived and he had been the one to integrate his programming into B4, then there in fact could not and would not be two Data's.He did not transfer his memories and programming to B4 to make a copy of himself, he did so in hopes that his programming might take to B4's positronic brain and neural net, which it did not(at that time).I see this as marginalizingthe sacrifice the real Data made to save Picard's life.Good or bad, it is canon("good/bad movie or not).

You are saying that if the programming of ANY Soong android overwrote that of another, it would automaticly make the receiving Soong android "another" of the original.That would be impossible because each Soong androids build,neural net, and positronic brain were unique to that android.Even if updates were made, it still would be merely a copy,clone or "shared consciousness" as the original's personality and expiriences would still be there.This is why i don't think it's a great idea calling B4 "Data", as he clearly isn't THE original Data.He's B4 with Data's memories,files,and programming(life expiriences) , as well as his own.If Data and his fellow Soong androids are indeed sentient beings, then they aren't simply machines whose programming can be overwritten with better or more preferrable parameters thus erasing what was there before.If that's the case, then Data,Lore, or B4 could ever be considered as being "alive".If that were the case, then why was Data always striving to be "more Human" and more than the sum of a bunch of android parts.

Anyway.Where does that leave things?

For the sake of sparing confusion and hopefully sparing the game and it's community a million continuity and canon flame wars, if Crytic wants to call B4 "Data" for the sake of familiarity, then so be it(It's their game after all).99% of what happens in the game won't be considered canon anyway.It's a great story so far(besides bringing B4/Data imo,lol)and i give Cryptic alot of credit for coming up with a great timeliine for the "in between" era, but if i were them i'd stay as far away from most Next Gen characters in the game as i possibly could.Perhaps this is the reason that the Enterprise will supposably out on long range exploration duty during the time leading up to/during the game time.

[Mjoellnir]

You can believe what you want.If the original Data were to have lived and he had been the one to integrate his programming into B4, then there in fact could not and would not be two Data's.He did not transfer his memories and programming to B4 to make a copy of himself, he did so in hopes that his programming might take to B4's positronic brain and neural net, which it did not(at that time).I see this as marginalizingthe sacrifice the real Data made to save Picard's life.Good or bad, it is canon("good/bad movie or not).

Sure it wasn't Data's intent to make a copy but that's exactly what would've happenend. He wanted to stimulate B4 to grow new neural pathways but those wouldn't have been his. They would have been Data's.

You are saying that if the programming of ANY Soong android overwrote that of another, it would automaticly make the receiving Soong android "another" of the original.That would be impossible because each Soong androids build,neural net, and positronic brain were unique to that android.Even if updates were made, it still would be merely a copy,clone or "shared consciousness" as the original's personality and expiriences would still be there.This is why i don't think it's a great idea calling B4 "Data", as he clearly isn't THE original Data.He's B4 with Data's memories,files,and programming(life expiriences) , as well as his own.If Data and his fellow Soong androids are indeed sentient beings, then they aren't simply machines whose programming can be overwritten with better or more preferrable parameters thus erasing what was there before.If that's the case, then Data,Lore, or B4 could ever be considered as being "alive".If that were the case, then why was Data always striving to be "more Human" and more than the sum of a bunch of android parts.

Sorry, but that argument doesn't work. You can do the same with humans. In one episode nearly the whole crew of the Voyager got its memories and personalities erased and replaced with others (even though the personalities were similar). There are lots of entities that can simply take over a human body. Does that make humans non-sentient beings? The other way works too. Humans can take over the bodies of Soong-type androids. Juliana Tainer was specially built for that purpose, and a dying scientist once took over Data. Where's the problem with Data taking over another Soong-type android?

For the sake of sparing confusion and hopefully sparing the game and it's community a million continuity and canon flame wars, if Crytic wants to call B4 "Data" for the sake of familiarity, then so be it(It's their game after all).99% of what happens in the game won't be considered canon anyway.It's a great story so far(besides bringing B4/Data imo,lol)and i give Cryptic alot of credit for coming up with a great timeliine for the "in between" era, but if i were them i'd stay as far away from most Next Gen characters in the game as i possibly could.Perhaps this is the reason that the Enterprise will supposably out on long range exploration duty during the time leading up to/during the game time.

I don't consider this a flamewar, just a discussion between some nerds. You are allowed to think what you want, I'm personally happy that Data ist back and hope we'll see Lal in the future. I agree that the storyline of Cryptic is great, but I hope that we will see old friends sometimes. I think we can stop this discussion now. There's no way one of us changes his mind concernign Data.:D

[robgomm]

To the above nerds, oh dear, how sad.

Great timeline though.

[Flatfingers]

CinC, your thoughts on the Data/B4 issue are some of the most beautifully written and smartly reasoned I've seen in a long time.

I think it's also worth noting that you're addressing a question -- what is a "person?" -- that is at the heart of everything the United Federation of Planets stands for. Even with its respect for other cultures and ethics, the Federation clearly has its own distinctive ethical position, and Star Trek is full of Starfleet officers actively defending that position against competing philosophical systems.

And the basis of the Federation's ethical system is simply put: persons have rights. Specifically, persons have rights that inhere to them solely and completely through their existence as persons. No individual or organization is required to grant those rights. And no individual or organization can take away those rights -- rights may be abridged, but they exist even if someone or some group chooses to ignore them. For the Federation, the defense of this fundamental ethical point drives every decision their officers and representatives make.

So how the Federation (through Starfleet) defines a "person" is a direct reflection on the seriousness with which they take their own fundamental ethical belief.

What, then, are we to make of Starfleet apparently choosing to destroy the B4 matrix in favor of Data's? Is "matrix" a polite euphemism for "person" or not?

When Data's personality matrix was reactivated, did it completely overwrite the B4 matrix? Did it destroy the B4 matrix, or is the B4 personality stored somewhere? If it's stored, is the B4 personality accessible as B4 to the Data personality, or accessible as information?

Or have the two personality matrices been merged into a single, new, composite personality? If so, is this situation affected by the precedent set from Captain Janeway's decision to destroy the merged "Tuvix" personality in order to restore the separate existences of Tuvok and Neelix? If they're merged, could the Data and B4 personalities be separated again?

The question of competence plays a role here as well. Where is the line drawn between someone who is considered sufficiently competent to be considered a person, and someone who fails to meet some determinative criteria of competence -- of "quality of life" -- for personhood?

What are those criteria that define the line of personhood?

And who gets to draw that line for someone else?

As you put it:

Clearly, B4 was not given the opportunity to find out if he could evolve. It seems to me that B4's case cannot be proven to be anything different than that of an individual with mental development disabilities - and while it is entirely ethical to utilize medical science to aid that person's interface with society, even the science of partially modifying such a person's personality through pharmaceuticals or others techniques is extraordinarily controversial. What to say of totally changing that individual's personality in even a well-intentioned attempt to make them "better"?

If we argue that this is acceptable in the case of B4, then indeed I would say that that represents the "Maddox" side of the equation - that the Soong-type androids represent not sentient beings but property, devoid of individual independence or worth.

Precisely. Was B4 a person or not?

If he was, how can Starfleet justify their deliberate efforts to activate the Data personality, knowing that this could result in the destruction of the person B4?

If B4 was not considered a person, on what basis was he considered an "unperson" while Data was a "person"... and is that rule applied consistently to biological lifeforms in the Federation as well? Where does the Federation draw the line of personhood for individuals who are disabled in some way (as we might say that B4 was)?

These questions regarding B4 are fascinating, not just for the continuing storyline of Data (although that's obviously something I enjoy myself), but for what they can reveal about how Cryptic views the Federation. I've been very impressed so far with Kestrel's handling of the "future history" of the Alpha Quadrant. What remains to be seen is how the B4/Data situation will be resolved for what it says about the Federation's dedication to its core principle of the rights of persons, and how that definition of the Federation will be translated into gameplay in Star Trek Online.

I would argue that what Kestrel is writing on this subject is science fiction at its best.

What impact will that creative effort have on the typical play experience of Star Trek Online?

--Flatfingers

[PaperBackHero]

Doh! I just figured out why there wasnt anything in the news about the Gorns.

They ate the reporter! :eek:

Was that not supposed to be the Kizinti that ate people?

[Loekii]

Was that not supposed to be the Kizinti that ate people?

Just a different cooking style.:D

[Athad]

Glad the Romulan Empire is restablizing, and hope they become a playable faction

[Loekii]

Glad the Romulan Empire is restablizing, and hope they become a playable faction

That is Cryptic's intent post launch. When exactly is unknown.

[juggernaut75]

I knew they couldnt quite get away with the way they killed Data. I always knew he would make a come back when they killed him off. It all made sense when You look back at when Data downloaded his matrix to B-4. I guess it was kind of a no brainer..............Has anyone bought the countdown comics to the new movie? Data is now the captain of the ENTERPRISE-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was extremely happy when i saw this, I wanna know what everyone thinks..................

[simiteen]

Picard becoming an ambassador doesn't surprise me that much, it's the Vulcan part that confuses me. You'd think his diplomatic talents would be better used at Qo'nos. I can't wait to see what Geordi comes up with in ship designs. Speaking of ships, I'm looking forward to seeing Luna-Class ships in action, even if it's only on exploration duties.

We dismantled the anti-Borg taskforce? That's just asking for trouble.

I'm a bit surprised that the Romulan Empire, which was on the brink of self-destruction, suddenly makes a come back and begins to settle down. Wonder how Sela will deal with her new situation.

[fablis310]

Ill admit that I'm not the greatest Star Trek fan out there but I know more than my fair share about the Star Trek canon. This timeline is really awesome and I can only hope that I get to meet some of these incredible characters within the game world itself. I look forward to more updates and that mythical time when the game comes out can't come quick enough.

[CharlieReynolds]

Picard becoming an ambassador doesn't surprise me that much, it's the Vulcan part that confuses me. You'd think his diplomatic talents would be better used at Qo'nos.

Ah. You forget his dealings with Sarek and Spock. He's one of the few non-humans to partake in a Vulcan mind-meld-- perfect choice if you ask me.

Anyways, I love how they're tying this in with the Star Trek: Countdown comics-- even down to the uniforms. Definitely a great read too-- when's the next one coming out?

[juggernaut75]

ya the uniforms are really badass, i like them, the comics usually come out towards the end of the month. so like march 27 around there somewhere.................

[MajorD]

He didn't he left the Enterprise to work on his own starship designs
They don't explain why. He could work on ship designs within Starfleet. The Defiant was pretty much Sisko's pet project when he was just a Commander.
Why are so many people crying about Picard becoming an ambassador. In 2385 Picard would be 81. Most people 81 years old can't even wipe their own butt let alone be digging for artifacts. Give it a rest. It is an honorable path and on befitting a great diplomat that he is.
People in Starfleet have stuck around past the age of 100. Also, Patrick Stewart's character is ten years younger than himself, meaning Picard has the mind and body of someone ten years younger than himself.
Also, why are people moaning about Data being back, when before they wanted him back?
I never wanted Data back. I said I might not mind too much if he were simply brought back, but I find it somehow disrespectful to bring him back especially in the manner it was done. First Data was dead, bringing him back cheapens his death. What's even the point, when other characters can simply be kept in Starfleet. By removing so many characters from Starfleet, it shows the creators of the game have no problem not having certain characters in the game. Secondly, by overwriting B4, they've killed the retard to bring back the genius. Thirdly, if they're using the Song B4 sings at the end of the movie as reason for Data coming back, their reasoning is wrong. Data explains he uploaded his memories only to give B4 greater experience, in the hope that it would allow B4 to develop a more complex personality, a personality that isn't Data. Data gave his memories to B4 because he thought it would help B4. By overwriting him, B4 isn't being helped he is only being used, I find it hard to imagine Data being alright with this situation, especially because Data considered B4 his brother.

[placidchap]

Here are some thoughts on Data and why I feel it is fine that he is back. Sorry for the rough quality...

1) It does not cheapen his death. He still did what he did without the intention of coming back. He sacrificed himself to save others, period. If anything, his death or even the whole movie cheapened the TNG experience. I felt cheated by that movie, after following the best Trek crew I’ve ever seen for years.

2) Those that say “rest in peace” are implying that Data had a soul and that he was in an after life and that he would want to rest.
a. If there is such a thing as a soul, would he really have one? He is man made, not “God made”b. Chances are, at least for Humans, Klingons, Cardassians and the Romulans, there is no afterlife considering it was shown in the TNG episode “The Chase” that all of the aforementioned races were practically genetic by-product of an ancient humanoid race from billions of years ago. Which proves that those above races were not made by a God (although you could consider that race itself “God”, I suppose, since they are the “creators”)
3) Him taking his own life dubbed the “ultimate human sacrifice” is jumping the gun a bit. That could just as easily be explained by his ethical programming and/or Starfleet regulations (of which I am not aware of a specific one that would apply, but could easily exist just the same). His ethical programming would certainly go towards sacrifice of one for the good of many, which is exactly what he did. There was little emotion from Data as he chose to blow himself up; it didn’t really feel like a “human experience”, at least not one that Data evolved to, he already had that potential.

4) As for Data not aging…that it a non-issue really. As others have mentioned, he has the ability to age…and even if he didn’t have an aging program, his skin is not real and he could simulate his own aging experience by modifying his fake skin in his quest to become more human.

5) Data copied his “memory engrams” into B4. It may or may not create an exact duplicate of Data. If B4 has the capability to assimilate Data’s engrams, I believe his positronic brain will evolve similarly to Data’s, which would mostly recreate Data. For example, if Data learned situation X by doing and seeing A, B and D; resulting in his (hopefully using the right term) neural pathways adapting to X by creating pathway Z. If B4 was also in situation X, chances are he would not do A B and D, but something else, which result in something other than Z, but since B4 will know situation X from Data’s download, his neural net will follow the same path as Data and as a result will end with Z. Rinse and repeat 1000s of time and you have the same positronic brain as Data Overwriting B4 may have not been Data’s intention but it could very well end up that way.
a. We also see earlier in the series that a personality can be transplanted into the Soong-type androids. Data’s personality could have just as easily passed on to B4 in a similar manner, except here it was a superior mind going into a lesser mind, whereas during the series it was a lesser mind (human) transplanting into an android’s. Since it was a “downgrade” in brains, it didn’t just ‘happen’ as it did in the series, it needed work and lots of it, to bring it out.

6) In B4’s defence, he doesn’t seem retarded; he seems like a little kid and by little I mean a toddler or thereabouts. I’ve heard kids ask questions similar to the silly questions B4 asked (shiny head, fuzzy face). B4 has potential, but he is inadvertently eliminated, which would be a good character development subplot for Data himself. He tried to help someone he thought was lesser and ending up ‘killing’ him and now he has to live with the fact that his life is based on someone’s death. Those are good human debacles for Data to grapple, it may even depress him! (if he gets his emotion chip back) It could also strain the relationship with LaForge as well, since he was the guiding hand in releasing Data.

Hopefully that was coherent enough…

[Bigmidget]

Just read this. It sounds pretty cool. Some of this is connected to the books and to the Countdown Comics. Does any one know where I can find a timeline of the events in the Star Trek universe. I want to start reading the books in order but there are so many I'm not quite sure where to start. I'm on the A Time To... series right now, but would like to know where all the books fit in from all the different series.

Also please check out my new blog, QuasiGeek. I'm trying to switch careers and am getting into blogging as a way to jump start my writing career.

http://quasigeek.wordpress.com

http://brainvomitdaily.blogspot.com

----------------
Now playing: Jerry Goldsmith - The Knife (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/jerry+goldsmith/track/the+knife)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Sarile]

Just a great read for a rainy Sunday morning with first cup of coffee in hand

Live Long and Prosper

[nagash303]

Awesome

wondering if you'll do any update with Kes? We last saw her try and change the past on Voyager but not much after that.

You mean Kes the one that has brain powers capable of boiling water, Tuvok, or anybody else? I am afraid her home planet lies a 75.000 lightyears away from earth, and her race has a life period of 10 years :eek: So by 2409 she will be as dead as Seska.

good story I enjoyed reading. Am very interessted on the politic situation in the romulan empire. Always had a 5 in historie :D

[AT2Howell]

Considering that the Borg were destroyed in 2381 by the Caeliar, it's good that Starfleet finaly gave up on them coming back.

[Mjoellnir]

Considering that the Borg were destroyed in 2381 by the Caeliar, it's good that Starfleet finaly gave up on them coming back.

That's not canon. So you better forget it. They'll be back.:eek:

[ronaldheld]

No but some influence of the novels and comics have been used here.

[Mjoellnir]

No but some influence of the novels and comics have been used here.

Yes, some. But not all that crap that was written and published like Borg Fleets with 7000 vessels attacking the Federation, Janeway's assimilation and time as Borg Queen before her death, Worf being new first officer of the Enterprise. The only thing that is actually worse than the Star Wars Expanded Universe is that of Star Trek. While reading Wookiepedia is fun, reading Memory Beta is something that drives tears in my eyes.

[Captain_K.C.]

*cough*
I can't believe how I missed that update a month ago... anyway my thoughts:

I'm most interested in the fate of the Enteprise E; it might be a while for Data (uploaded into B4's body) to be fully functioning and ready to command. It's like recovering from a heart attack. I note the clear parallels between Data --> B4 and Spock's katra --> reincarnated Spock.

Picard's "retirement": huh? Was he forced out by whoever the President is? I thought Spock was already Vulcan ambassador, why would they need another person?

Come to think of it, this most recent update reads like a newsletter. I hope to read soon about Lt. Wes Crusher on the Titan, Jake Sisko's (civilian?) life, and how much trouble we can expect from the Borg. And where are Riker and Deanna Troi? Are they still a couple?


Just a small FYI - Kestrel is the maestro who creates these timelines and yes, she definitely deserves pie for them. We are pretty darned lucky to have her on our team!

No offense Awen but I like Kestrel better... she's responsible for much of what we know about the STO universe ;) If there isn't a thread dedicated to her I'll start one myself!

[Mjoellnir]

*cough*
I'm most interested in the fate of the Enteprise E; it might be a while for Data (uploaded into B4's body) to be fully functioning and ready to command. It's like recovering from a heart attack. I note the clear parallels between Data --> B4 and Spock's katra --> reincarnated Spock.

According to the prequel comics for Star Trek XI Data soon will take command of the Enterprise.

Picard's "retirement": huh? Was he forced out by whoever the President is? I thought Spock was already Vulcan ambassador, why would they need another person?

Picard became a diplomat because that's what he does best. And Spock wasn't federation ambassador to Vulcan. Since TNG Unification I and II he led a Romulan dissident movement on Romulus and is now federation ambassador to Romulus.

[Ric_Adbur]

Picard's last mission should have been a bit more spectacular than just simply ferrying people off a planet if you ask me. :(

[ronaldheld]

Not if it was an indication that he wanted to move on.

[AT2Howell]

That's not canon. So you better forget it. They'll be back.:eek:

Oh, I'm sorry! You must be under the delusion that this video game is canon. Don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's about as canon as one of the "expanded universe" novels. Oh, and there are over 40 of them now. Star Trek is almost gone. These authors, with the blessing of the Trek franchise, are keeping it alive. How about you give them a little "thank you"?

[Loekii]

Oh, I'm sorry! You must be under the delusion that this video game is canon. Don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's about as canon as one of the "expanded universe" novels. Oh, and there are over 40 of them now. Star Trek is almost gone. These authors, with the blessing of the Trek franchise, are keeping it alive. How about you give them a little "thank you"?

What was said was correct.

The Destruction of the Borg is not Canon. The poster never claimed that STO was Canon.

Also, we already know that the Borg will be an antagonist in the STO.

So for purposes of STO, the timeline where the Borg was destroyed (in what ever novel) does not exist/is inaccurate.

[Nador_Ekoor]

organizing timeline together here...

[Nador_Ekoor]

organizing timeline together here...

[kellyicus]

Starfleet Command announces it has completed its re-evaluation of all of its post-Dominion War assets and resources and that it will be refocusing some ships that have been assigned to defense and diplomacy to exploration and scientific discovery.

Read More (http://www.startrekonline.com/timeline/2385)

OH NO!!! theyll be theere but i think itll be onna the old empires from 100,000-500,000 years ago like the gateway builders or those guys from onna the TNG season 1 episodes. id bet on them the akoran quaran something like that