IF you die, you're dead server ?

[Eron]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..
I can already see this game will be for casual and / or non trek fans...
kids.. and 'hardcore' gamers..

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions

[Vicelance]

simple enough just delete your character everytime you die and start over.

[TruthSeer]

Then your probably not going to be playing.

[Ill]

IF you die, you're dead server?
This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

I have no idea what that means.

[Eron]

simple enough just delete your character everytime you die and start over.

see this is what I'm talking about..

in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..
here.. you're going to accept their money
you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly
and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person ..
you know In Character (IC) they'd be demoted or released from StarFleet

does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack

[Eron]

Then your probably not going to be playing.

what's wrong with having a server where if you die you're dead
with how developed medical is in star trek.. you could literally die and be brought back to life
honestly you'd almost have to be vaporized to die .. that or get blown up

I have no idea what that means.

it means say you are a klingon (tlhingan) and you want to PVP a UFP and you die in a phaser fight
well, if your medics can't revive you, well .. you're dead and have start over with a new character

they should make an RP server that requires an approved background and character generation / roll
and if you die, you're dead and must make a new character with a new name ...

just like the text based online star trek games

[TruthSeer]

see this is what I'm talking about..

in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..
here.. you're going to accept their money
you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly
and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person ..

does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack

That or it could be because this has been talked about before, and nothing ever comes of the conversations. Also Cryptic has said the death penalty won't be harsh and there is no way of viewing perma death as anything other than a heavy penalty.

[TruthSeer]

what's wrong with having a server where if you die you're dead
with how developed medical is in star trek.. you could literally die and be brought back to life
honestly you'd almost have to be vaporized to die .. that or get blown up


They're looking at one server. For that conversation look at the thread "One server is a BAD THING".

[Welsh_Knight]

see this is what I'm talking about..

in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..
here.. you're going to accept their money
you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly
and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person ..

does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack

not that I wanna start a fight in this, but that doesn't come across as hostile at all

now, if someone was to say "you're opinion is stupid, just don't play because you are wrong!" or some other nonsense, THAT would be a personal attack.

what he said was a very simple suggestion as to how you could give yourself the gaming experience you want, while others can still have their own gaming experience the way they want it.

[Eron]

That or it could be because this has been talked about before, and nothing ever comes of the conversations. Also Cryptic has said the death penalty won't be harsh and there is no way of viewing perma death as anything other than a heavy penalty.

who do you think brought this up first

I've been talking about if for over 10yrs

anyway .. they SHOULD have that kind of penalty for the people who want to Role Play
for the people who want consequences for people's actions..

I have a feeling this is going to be a 'run and gun' or 'fly and shoot 'em up' kind of game
with no real RP , no real econ .. just a buncha kids throwing insults around and really
i'm not sure that credits Star Trek .. in fact.. it makes me wonder ..
it's not Gene's vision..


I could say alot about this but really I think at this point I'll save it for the people who are important in Star Trek
and that's not to say I'm going to cryptic .. results are one thing, but being true to Star Trek is another

[Eron]

not that I wanna start a fight in this, but that doesn't come across as hostile at all

now, if someone was to say "you're opinion is stupid, just don't play because you are wrong!" or some other nonsense, THAT would be a personal attack.

what he said was a very simple suggestion as to how you could give yourself the gaming experience you want, while others can still have their own gaming experience the way they want it.

I don't buy that.. I am very perceptive.. sure he's young and just wanted to have his say but ..

I can see the direction already.. I didn't write that to fight with anyone, simply to voice my opions and

well .. here comes what every one of these MMO's is infected with.. the teenage troll

[Vicelance]

see this is what I'm talking about..

in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..
here.. you're going to accept their money
you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly
and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person ..
you know In Character (IC) they'd be demoted or released from StarFleet

does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack


What you wanted a solution on how you could have perma death in a game where the Devs say there won't be any. If you think my answer was cocky wait till you see some of the other people on this site. Are you saying the Devs shouldn't allow cocky people to play? Are you trying to cut their subscriber base.

[mcintyre72]

what's wrong with having a server where if you die you're dead
with how developed medical is in star trek.. you could literally die and be brought back to life
honestly you'd almost have to be vaporized to die .. that or get blown up



it means say you are a klingon (tlhingan) and you want to PVP a UFP and you die in a phaser fight
well, if your medics can't revive you, well .. you're dead and have start over with a new character

they should make an RP server that requires an approved background and character generation / roll
and if you die, you're dead and must make a new character with a new name ...

just like the text based online star trek games

With the extent to how developed Character creation, this coupled with a tiered system of advancement makes permanent death impractical and undesirable. In games with Hierarchical gameplay, coupled with subscription, can never support a permanent death system. Who the hell is going to pay to play just restart every god damn week, not to mention custom create a new character everytime they die?

[Eron]

What you wanted a solution on how you could have perma death in a game where the Devs say there won't be any. If you think my answer was cocky wait till you see some of the other people on this site. Are you saying the Devs shouldn't allow cocky people to play? Are you trying to cut their subscriber base.

I'm not here to answer your questions, that's for sure.

also - TruthSeer - man .. figure it out already

I'm here for my solutions <--

if they can't or won't do that .. fine

I won't play & guess what.. A L O T of other people .. Won't play

[1MGSIX]

There will not be perma death. End of story.

[Qrion]

who do you think brought this up first

I've been talking about if for over 10yrs

anyway .. they SHOULD have that kind of penalty for the people who want to Role Play
for the people who want consequences for people's actions..


What he meant was that there are at least a dozen other threads on the subject on these forums right now. It has been talked to death. Honestly, there isn't any point in discussing it any further, because Cryptic has already stated that death penalties will be light.

You have to realize that not everyone shares your opinion. I personally like the way they're going with it. It's a game, and I play games to have fun, not to play for hours only to have to start over because I didn't see that cloaked ship coming up behind me. No single person can say that this is the way something should or should not be.

Like I said, they already said no Perma-Death. If that makes you decide not to buy this game, sorry.



well .. here comes what every one of these MMO's is infected with.. the teenage troll

That was more hostile than what he said to you in the first place.

[_Pax_]

I won't play
Good riddance.

Or, as I typically say to sophomoric whining of your variety: Don't let the doorknob hit ya, where the Good Lord split ya.

[Interdictor]

I won't play & guess what.. A L O T of other people .. Won't play
THERE we go! Was waiting for the "threat" card to be played. :D

[PugPug]

In "old trek games" you could reload a saved game before you died.

I imagine you wouldn't enjoy the game that you are now asking for.

[Maidel]

Having only played one online game (for 4 years i might add) im not sure if this is true - but do any other 'big' online games have perma-death?

To my knowledge, no, they all have some form of ressurection system/ cloning etc. (if thats not the case, i stand corrected)

Therefore, to implement a perma-death game, surely that flys in the face of exactly what everyone else wants, and thus, will cause a lot more people to 'not play' as apposed to people not playing because its not been implemented.

[loyaltrekie]

Having only played one online game (for 4 years i might add) im not sure if this is true - but do any other 'big' online games have perma-death?

To my knowledge, no, they all have some form of ressurection system/ cloning etc. (if thats not the case, i stand corrected)

Therefore, to implement a perma-death game, surely that flys in the face of exactly what everyone else wants, and thus, will cause a lot more people to 'not play' as apposed to people not playing because its not been implemented.

[edit] Multiplayer Games Currently Featuring Permanent Death

Diablo 2 allows players to create a 'hardcore' character once they've beaten the game once.


Sacred 2 features a hardcore mode in online closed play.

Dofus runs a server were every character suffers permanent death upon defeat on any single combat.

DartMUD was started in 1991 with permanent death as a specific design decision. Characters may obtain rare 'soul amulets' to enable later reincarnation, and characters dying without such an amulet may be resurrected if healed before their body rots away.

Discworld MUD has circumstantial permanent death - characters begin with seven lives, which can be replaced in-game, but a player who dies with no lives remaining cannot be revived. PvP deaths do not reduce a player's life total.

Armageddon has featured permanent death almost from its inception, circa 1991.

BatMUD Hardcore has featured permanent death using a separate copy of the 'normal' server which opened in 2000. This was heavily inspired by Diablo II hardcore.

DragonRealms, a spinoff of Gemstone IV, still features permanent death. To avoid it, the character must find favor with his or her god or goddess, rather than just the patron of death. The number of times the PC could die were counted as favors, and more could be obtained by placing "unabsorbed" experience points into an orb and then offering it to the character's god. If the character died and decayed without favors, the character would "walk the Starry Road"—DragonRealms worldwide messaging for permanently dying.

In Wurm Online, high level priests can choose to become Champions of their gods. While this makes them much more powerful, if they die three times, the character will permanently die.

Why do people ask when its so easy to just google something :(

While Diablo 2's status could be debated as if its a true "MMO" or not, its one of the most "Respected" games other there, and its "harcore" game mode has quite a lot of followers. SWG also has it in for Jedi, pre-CU of course.

The market for players who enjoy perma death is really a "niche market" as its not a mainstream liked feature. I for one am against totally killing a player, and would rather just have more severe "Death penalties" rather then character deletion.

[Vicelance]

Having only played one online game (for 4 years i might add) im not sure if this is true - but do any other 'big' online games have perma-death?

To my knowledge, no, they all have some form of ressurection system/ cloning etc. (if thats not the case, i stand corrected)

Therefore, to implement a perma-death game, surely that flys in the face of exactly what everyone else wants, and thus, will cause a lot more people to 'not play' as apposed to people not playing because its not been implemented.

Not the big ones, certainly none that ask for $15 bucks a month to play them.

[phifur]

I am not sure if I am hearing this right? you telling me if somebody played for weeks or days without player death and some accident like lost connection in a middle of a fight or had to go afk to take care of business. Then we have to make a new character if we die. One of cryptic gold's is to make the game fun. Does that sound fun to you?

[Maidel]

Why do people ask when its so easy to just google something :(

While Diablo 2's status could be debated as if its a true "MMO" or not, its one of the most "Respected" games other there.

Well, to be frank, I wasnt asking - i was just qualifying my statement to avoid some smart arse saying 'you're wrong because X-game features perma death'


However, you made my point quite nicely for me - all of those games listed are no exactly current genre defining online games which STO will compete with for players. And thus, my statement in my previous post stands - introducing perma death is more likely to alienate more people than it will alienate by not including it.

[Arachnidus]

OP, if you're gonna complain about the game, make it legible.

[knightofhyrule730]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..
I can already see this game will be for casual and / or non trek fans...
kids.. and 'hardcore' gamers..

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions

You've clearly never played an MMO. It's not how they work. You will die. A lot. It's how these games work. A lot of guess and check for seeing what skills and tactics work against other people/NPCs.

Also, i am a hardcore player. I raid 5/7 days of my week for 6 hours. I die 5-6 times a night on new bosses 1-2 if im not paying attention on ones we can sleepwalk through. You do not speak for all "hardcore" players, sorry.

[SelorKiith]

Does anyone think theire tiny little pathetic threats to not play actually are of interest to anyone else then themselves?
I mean... I don't know you and I don't give a damn if you are not playing... would dare to say that it is even better without those...

[loyaltrekie]

Does anyone think theire tiny little pathetic threats to not play actually are of interest to anyone else then themselves?
I mean... I don't know you and I don't give a damn if you are not playing... would dare to say that it is even better without those...

I hardly view it as a threat, as much as a line in the sand. I mean when the dev team starts listing out features and what will and won't make it into the game, they know they will lose/gain subs depending on what they cut. They have to take into account that "line in the sand" where players will just not purchase their title.

[knightofhyrule730]

The Line Must Be Drawn Here!!!

:D

actually, I do think that crptyic takes a look at these kinds of "all or nothing" posts. Theyre always on the lookout to make sure the game is playable to the most amount of people.

[SelorKiith]

Do you really think that they will consider ONE angry Forumuser that "draws the line in the sand" by threatening to not play until they make it like HE wants it to be?

[Allerka]

Do you really think that they will consider ONE angry Forumuser that "draws the line in the sand" by threatening to not play until they make it like HE wants it to be?

Not in the slightest.

Clearly STO is the first real MMO for these folks. As it's been stated, you die a LOT in MMOs. It's just a fact of life. Whether you're doing PvE or PvP, you'll die a lot. Shoot, my main character in Warhammer Online has died well over a thousand times.

Perma-death simply isn't practical in an MMO of this scale. NO ONE would PvP. In PvP, players die. Constantly. That's the whole freaking point. And most of the time, there's nothing you could have done about it. Any grinding to get decent equipment would be rendered null and void, leaving people to not even bother.

Yes, it's not really lore-accurate, but in ANY MMO, you're gonna have to sacrifice some realism to make it an enjoyable experience for people. It's the same thing every other MMO based on a pre-established world has had to go through.

[Dext]

Things like this happening in a MMO now is way over with. People play the game to have fun, not to spend all there life re-leaving there toon. So having something like this now days is point less.

[CherryTerri]

I have no idea what that means.

It's called permadeath.

Unlike in most games, when you are defeated, you respawn.

There was an MMO that did this, when where you died .. there was no respawn.

DnD PnP ususally does this. Make a new char when you die.

I won't be playing with permadeath.

[CherryTerri]

I spilled my soda ... nothing to see here ....

[DanSeale]

I'm not here to answer your questions, that's for sure.

also - TruthSeer - man .. figure it out already

I'm here for my solutions <--

if they can't or won't do that .. fine

I won't play & guess what.. A L O T of other people .. Won't play

These kinds of comments (regardless of your physical age) .. are some what immature. At the very least we have seen others who attempt to be condesending with other forms of bitter threats of not playing if extreme death penalty is not a part of the game.

I use to play SFC and SFC Orions Pirates .. and the last SFC that was released. Most of them were fun until ship loss was not enough .. all servers where exteme ship-loss values were a part of the game drove away the numbers. Soon that was not enough and the number of capitol ships were controlled to just a handful .. (sound familiar?? ) .... The games died. Sure a handful stayed ... but less than 50 . That's right .. soon there was not enough to even put togeather a good server with two opposing teams.

I submit to you that while WoW style is not the answer ... Neither is EvE ...

DP (or death penalty) has in fact been discussed numerious times and several excellent suggestions made. The final out come of course is up to Cryptic.

While your opinion is welcomed and frankly we need it .. breathing threats (telling everyone that you wont be there .. and neither will most everyone who is a real gammer) ... is not the best approach. It does cause others around you to raise an eyebrow (so to speak) ... and see you in a light less than you want to be seen.

[Awarkle]

I think he is refereing to the old diablo 2 servers with perma death which to be honest work perfectly well against NPC's but as soon as you bring in PVP then no perma death would be the biggest failiure of any MMO.

Also perma death could never be possible due to the nature of the internet if you link dead because your mum pulls out your router or a power cut and you come back online to find your character dead then what whos to blame ?

perma death servers will never be implemented, harsh death servers maybe such as in darkfall with the fact that if you die ANYONE can loot your body thats the harshes form of death but no perma death is a flawed concept.

[marrinhas]

i understand your opinion, but seriouls this is a game for people enjoying

for exemple if i have the tier 7 and some bug i die !!! i will not star over and that stuff

so i say no to your ideia

[bridgeburner18]

who do you think brought this up first

I've been talking about if for over 10yrs

anyway .. they SHOULD have that kind of penalty for the people who want to Role Play
for the people who want consequences for people's actions..

I have a feeling this is going to be a 'run and gun' or 'fly and shoot 'em up' kind of game
with no real RP , no real econ .. just a buncha kids throwing insults around and really
i'm not sure that credits Star Trek .. in fact.. it makes me wonder ..
it's not Gene's vision..


I could say alot about this but really I think at this point I'll save it for the people who are important in Star Trek
and that's not to say I'm going to cryptic .. results are one thing, but being true to Star Trek is another

unfortuanatly what you spec of would fit strek canon yes, but it is not realistic in an mmo where you will be facing combat on a regular basis, unless ofcourse you expect to be uber leet right out of the gate and pwn nubs like a pro...
your idea is better suited to a single player game and not an online game that you devote lots of time and effort in building your charector.
what would happen say if my cat jumped on my desk while i was playing and her fatness steps on my keys and instead of fireing phasers i crash into a planet...
my cat would die sir...
and i do not promote the slaying of harmless animals to fulfill your rpg experience.
good day sir...




I SAID GOOD day...!

[bridgeburner18]

on the new Q&A Cryptic mentioned an idea of adding a letter to your ship everytime you blow it up...
the alphabet doesn't have enough letters...

to try and blend some realism to the game if you die, lets sya you and most of your crew make it escape pods and you are rescued... maybe even perhaps that once your ship is abandoned that it can be salvaged...but that would kill the concept of literally blowing up enemy ships and would not be as exciting.

[TheFeelOfCotton]

I just think it's funny that Eron has disappeared all of a sudden. Also I think people like that who want such hardcore RPing that whent hey die, they have to start over need to either, build a bridge and get over it seeing as how Cyrptic has already said THERE WILL BE NO PERMA DEATH. Or they can just not play because I don't want the whiners whining about how this game isn't true to Star Trek and what not. It's a game that supposed to be fun, not a Star Trek sim that let's you live out a life you don't have.

[Grox]

I'm not here to answer your questions, that's for sure.

also - TruthSeer - man .. figure it out already

I'm here for my solutions <--

if they can't or won't do that .. fine

I won't play & guess what.. A L O T of other people .. Won't play

Blah blah blah. Go cry me a river. You know I love how your whining about people being rude to you, while your being rude to others. Teenage trolls? What, are you jealous cause you an old troll?

And to everyone else who isn't going to play the game, well go then. Stop crying. I'm sick of reading about your woes.

Now I'm going back to having fun on the forums with others who are going to play the game.

P.S. Welcome to the forums Eron.

[Crazy-captain]

If you want permadeath go play EVE. Other than that Cryptic has spoken and in ths matter there word is law.

[Grox]

on the new Q&A Cryptic mentioned an idea of adding a letter to your ship everytime you blow it up...
the alphabet doesn't have enough letters...

to try and blend some realism to the game if you die, lets sya you and most of your crew make it escape pods and you are rescued... maybe even perhaps that once your ship is abandoned that it can be salvaged...but that would kill the concept of literally blowing up enemy ships and would not be as exciting.

I remember that too, but I'm almost positive it was a joke.

At least I hope so. No one is going to want to be driving the yourshipsname -(negative)P because they died too many times

[Crazy-captain]

I remember that too, but I'm almost positive it was a joke.

At least I hope so. No one is going to want to be driving the yourshipsname -(negative)P because they died too many times

Yea I don't want to fly around with a ship called USS Hopelesssssssssssssssss. When they said the punishment wouldn't be as hard as something like EVE I guess when you die you and your ship respaws only your ship has les crew and takes currency the repair it.

[indigowhale345]

simple enough just delete your character everytime you die and start over.


You know everything else in the thread aside, what exactly is wrong with this solution? Why can't you just delete your character to have permadeath when you want it? What is wrong with that? How are the ends any different from the server deleting your character automatically?

I've even seen self-imposed alternate solutions in other games where a character is permadead to the ICRP community and will never be involved in RP situations again, but continues to exist in the game world and play rather than lose all the effort that went into making the character and leveling it up.

If you are all about serious ICRP then I find it odd that a simple self imposed rule, like deleting your character on your own, is too big of a taco to handle without a machine doing it for you. Every game I've played supports starting over, or starting a new character, or just lets you delete or forget your old one.

[amphigory]

Hmm no one has outright attacked you, yet you have started throwing out "teenage troll" etc... hmmm

Anyways, "perma death" does not equate to hard core RP in my opinion (in any case, cloning, that type of stuff could make valid RP).
Tell me, would your game experience by enjoyable if, initially, you had to restart your character perhaps 10 times within the first month?? As initially, you would be learning how the game plays and would invariably make mistakes which could cost you your character's life (just like any new game).
In a single player game - you would simply "reload" a previous save game and try again. Or did you not have any save games at all when you played the old Star Trek single player games, to have a sense of perma death? I find it hard to believe that you would never have used the save game feature of the old games.

In any case, "perma death" stuff is a moot point now. No developer will implement it, as they would lose too many players. Simple as that.

[Grox]

It appears we were duped by a flamer I feel silly.

[djnattyd]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..



There were other ST online games??? When was this? Did i have a stroke when the were available?

[handsomelass]

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions

But the thing is, this is not back in the day. Because it is a different game you must accept that it will work differently. Rather than bemoan the fact that it is not the same rejoice in the differences, or at least in the fact that it will exist at all.

Consider, the Star Trek series are all very different than one another, but there are things that each one did very well. It would be a waste to watch TNG and complain that Captain Kirk is not the commander.

[knightofhyrule730]

There were other ST online games??? When was this? Did i have a stroke when the were available?

Not real games. It was forum based text games. in other words, not real.

[osena]

see this is what I'm talking about..

in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..
here.. you're going to accept their money
you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly
and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person ..
you know In Character (IC) they'd be demoted or released from StarFleet

does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack

i see your abit off base the only game i ever played that hade prema death was SWG after i unlocked thw jedi class pre cu Prema death was complete insanity and you have nothing but player killers is that what you want players going around trying to kill one anther are you off your rocker man?

[knightofhyrule730]

i see your abit off base the only game i ever played that hade prema death was SWG after i unlocked thw jedi class pre cu Prema death was complete insanity and you have nothing but player killers is that what you want players going around trying to kill one anther are you off your rocker man?

if you remember, that pemadeath was taken away in about a month.

[Jenshae]

Perma death could work.

It is all a matter of game mechanics. Resurrections, cloned bodies and all the other things that give you another chance. They were created as a band-aid to fix a problem; it was a quick fix that has become a norm.

They can create tools to increase your survivability, the equivalent of ejection chairs to evacuate. So the option of retreat can exist. Disconnection, "link dead" can be detected, it can even pick up if you are pulling the plug on the network cable or if you are pulling your power.

Since the combat is meant to be 'strategic' and 'tactical' the chances for slow witted players to realise they are in trouble and call a retreat could and should be higher. They can have the NPCs turn and attack the rest of your squadron or team once your weapons are disabled and you are too damaged to keep fighting. That is the time to get out or sacrifice yourself.

Basically, the higher the stakes the greater a rush of relief you will have when you survive. The more of an achievement and kick you will get once you do win through. Only the brave will fight when they have everything to lose.

[doh123]

You know everything else in the thread aside, what exactly is wrong with this solution? Why can't you just delete your character to have permadeath when you want it? What is wrong with that? How are the ends any different from the server deleting your character automatically?

I've even seen self-imposed alternate solutions in other games where a character is permadead to the ICRP community and will never be involved in RP situations again, but continues to exist in the game world and play rather than lose all the effort that went into making the character and leveling it up.

If you are all about serious ICRP then I find it odd that a simple self imposed rule, like deleting your character on your own, is too big of a taco to handle without a machine doing it for you. Every game I've played supports starting over, or starting a new character, or just lets you delete or forget your old one.

because the poster wants it forced on everyone else. His/her point is that people will act differently if they know they have this penalty... you wont have someone sacrificing themselves just so their group gets an advantage and able to win a fight like some games can do...

I agree, in a perfect online game, permadeath would be cool.... Adellion (in development) is experimenting with a way to do this... but there is no perfect online game mainly for the reason of it being the internet. You have a lot of jerks that want to do nothing but make others lives miserable for a kick... they'll group up in groups of 10 to 15 so they are safe and go around and kill 1s and 2s that stand no chance... you also have the internet itself... how would you like to build the most awesome character/ship/crew/whatever for 6 months then lose it all because your ISP went down for 5 minutes at a bad time...?

If you could force only mature players who did RP for sure and were honest... and could make sure that there was no way you could be disconnected from the game and die... then the game would be great with permadeath. of course if anything was like that in RL to make this possible, there would be world peace, no hunger or want of shelter, and we wouldn't know enough of violence to even have Star Trek.

[Jenshae]

because the poster ...

... realises that the game mechanics will be weak and that deaths will be frequent, so he would be deleting his character a few times a day. Very realistic, all soldiers die every day. They never get pulled out of an area and given medical care or retreat.

[osena]

if you remember, that pemadeath was taken away in about a month.

yea it was more like all most 6 weeks give or take but shoot that was like all most 4 years ago:)

[Jenshae]

To add to all of that what I am saying is that you should plan to go into a situation and know you will win. If you are wrong and it should be a gamble you retreat and prepare again.

I hope that we don't have to loot everything, that we do have resource collection but that is randomly generated to help combat bots.

(This could be delightfully frustrating for those 'killers' who want to grief people, if they always have a way and a chance to escape. Even if that is an escape pod that can't be shot or a summoning warp from a friend with the technology way back at the space station.)

[osena]

comeing form a kilngon that is something but yeah i agree never pick a fight you can't win we ant rocky balboas here lol and this ant a movie yo adrrriiian i did it:D

[CherryTerri]

Perma death could work.

It is all a matter of game mechanics. Resurrections, cloned bodies and all the other things that give you another chance. They were created as a band-aid to fix a problem; it was a quick fix that has become a norm.

They can create tools to increase your survivability, the equivalent of ejection chairs to evacuate. So the option of retreat can exist. Disconnection, "link dead" can be detected, it can even pick up if you are pulling the plug on the network cable or if you are pulling your power.

Since the combat is meant to be 'strategic' and 'tactical' the chances for slow witted players to realise they are in trouble and call a retreat could and should be higher. They can have the NPCs turn and attack the rest of your squadron or team once your weapons are disabled and you are too damaged to keep fighting. That is the time to get out or sacrifice yourself.

Basically, the higher the stakes the greater a rush of relief you will have when you survive. The more of an achievement and kick you will get once you do win through. Only the brave will fight when they have everything to lose.

I have to disagree.

I remember in EQ, people would hit their reset on their pcs when they were loosing a battle. Hence they would disappear in a flash and not get killed, hence not getting hit with the exp loss of the DP and perhaps loosing a level.

That was fixed by having people stay in game 30 seconds for a log out so you more thank likely died. DIdn't matter if you did it on purpose or your power went out from a storm. It is easier to make it one way then spend forever trying to figure out who did what. Because there are ways, I am sure, to dupe the server into thinking "power outage" over "pulled plug"

As for sacrifing yourself? Who DOESN'T get the thrill of victory when you KNOW you survived that battle? I can't tell you how many times I've had a character win because they were able to get that crit hit off or that last heal from mana. Death is an excellent way to learn what you are capable of doing. Running all the time ... pffft. You don't win wars by running! (and it's called a tactical regrouping)

PD doesn't belong here. I see STO as a game for all people. So why alienate the casual gamer, or explorer, or RPer since you can't get out there .. putz around ... make mistakes ... have fun seeing if you really can take a phaser blast in the face ...

Rez was NOT a quick fix. I can tell you some tardy death penalties ... EQ2 had shards and group exp debt! Wann talk annoying?? When some person in your group died you ALL took an exp hit no matter where you were! Shards? Didn't pick up a shard from when you died? You took a hit to your STATS! Could never recover that IIRC.

Sure, armor damage and a bit of exp debt is NOTHING that can't be recovered. But so much time being put into a character (unless I'm the only wierdo who gets attached to someone I take time breathing life into) and having to remake them all over again because i wanted to try something is just not appealing.

[Jenshae]

There is a difference between the times. It won't be the same fight style. There are two things to consider, ships and characters.
If you run all the time you will get a reputation for it. If you lead people to their deaths, same thing.

... and as I said if your ability to survive is higher and you have more options, the casual players won't be punished. Basic instinct should kick in.

Death is over used, now when you die it is just a case of, "Oh well. How quick can I get back in there and continue?" It is even used to travel when people are too lazy to go back. Death "penalties"? Don't make me laugh. I don't care if my character dies. Even if there is a loss of a few missions worth of XP; so what? Now I just casually get myself killed to make it inconvenient to go back, that I am already back where I want to log off and now is a "great" time to log off or do something else. If I am in a bad team. All too often I will also just die so that they no longer have their healer and expect miracles that they will finally bail out and won't cry to me when they do die because of their own stupidity.

So, death is an every day thing that is boring and now used as a method of cheating or manipulating people.

Edit:
Oh and if you do have computer problems, people will be aware of that and make allowances for it; bail you out of a bad place, protect you and take agg ... but that is only if they care about you. So if you are a turd that no one gives a rat's tail about and they did implement these things then we can expect you to come crying all over the forums.

[doh123]

sounds more like your just wanting harsher death penalties... not exactly permadeath... games have done that, with very harsh penalties for dying... losing days worth of experience... losing levels... it was hated by the majority of the players in all of the ones I played... and all were lesser penalties than permadeath

and there is no way to account for being disconnected... there's too many variables of things that could happen that is a legitimate reason to get disconnected by accident for that can be spoofed... if you protect disconnected characters, you just nullified permadeath or any penalties for those smart enough to know how to take advantage of it. Make it where there isn't protection, and super harsh penalties, then you make the player base mad or upset and can lose players over it.

if you do have computer problems, your situation doesn't fit all cases. people around you might not know you well... not everyone is group with a large group of close friends every time they are logged on... and sometimes the turds are very good at getting large groups of friends (even non-turd friends) by being charismatic and liars. I knew someone who ruined the reputations of a few people and backstabbed many others, and was around and a "respected" member of the "community" in another game for almost 2 years before she was exposed and promptly disappeared... I'm sure that isn't an isolated incident....

I'm just sure your basis would not make a fun game... it might be fun to some (probably less people than the amount of Mac players that would want a native client), those who like a really tough challenge... but others like to choose the challenge, and have a really tough challenge in ways that they arent going to be totally devastated just because of an error.

[Jenshae]

Sounds more like your just wanting harsher death penalties... .

I am so glad you know what I want. I am so glad to see you are comprehending what I am saying and are not mouthing off what you have learnt from bad games and a lot of PR to cover up for things.

You do realise that at some point the person's computer will log back into the game? That there are neat little things known as flags for example? That all this is just off the top of my head and could be even more effective with some planning?

... to try and drive the point home I will repeat:

If you have the right game mechanics. You shouldn't be dying frequently and if you are any good at the game, what with friends that will care and know how to use the options, you shouldn't die at all. It is a case of and here we go again, increasing the survivability and having more options to survive and escape.

Do not forget that there is the possibilty of losing your ship but not your crew too.

[chris1701]

I am so glad you know what I want. I am so glad to see you are comprehending what I am saying and are not mouthing off what you have learnt from bad games and a lot of PR to cover up for things.

You do realise that at some point the person's computer will log back into the game? That there are neat little things known as flags for example? That all this is just off the top of my head and could be even more effective with some planning?

... to try and drive the point home I will repeat:

If you have the right game mechanics. You shouldn't be dying frequently and if you are any good at the game, what with friends that will care and know how to use the options, you shouldn't die at all. It is a case of and here we go again, increasing the survivability and having more options to survive and escape.

Do not forget that there is the possibilty of losing your ship but not your crew too.

Ive scanned the pages and havent seen someone post this.

If perma death was available, it could be exploited hugely by the player base, especialy if ramming a ship could kill you then players might do this if:

* you ganked my toon (klingone if your federation or other way tound)
* didnt give me money
* was going to quit the game anyway
* was paid by other faction to create level one toon for a suicide run
* because I can

I could of put more down but wont.

[_Pax_]

Good point - Prmadeath would lead to SUICIDE TWINKS: starter-level captains riding around in starships kitted out with impossibly-high-quality defensive systems, so that they COULD surive to make a ramming-speed run on an enemy.

The lowbie? Their player doesn't care - they were BORN to die.

The lowbie's target? Probably gonna be missed ...

[doh123]

I am so glad you know what I want. I am so glad to see you are comprehending what I am saying and are not mouthing off what you have learnt from bad games and a lot of PR to cover up for things.

You do realise that at some point the person's computer will log back into the game? That there are neat little things known as flags for example? That all this is just off the top of my head and could be even more effective with some planning?

... to try and drive the point home I will repeat:

If you have the right game mechanics. You shouldn't be dying frequently and if you are any good at the game, what with friends that will care and know how to use the options, you shouldn't die at all. It is a case of and here we go again, increasing the survivability and having more options to survive and escape.

Do not forget that there is the possibilty of losing your ship but not your crew too.

Never said i knew what you wanted, just what it sounds like your saying... even though I couldn't clearly tell with complete certainty.

For years many people, including myself, have tried to make plans like your saying, but it never works... there is always a hole... just saying "work it out" doesn't always work. If you think its possible, come up with a plan, and you can do what hundreds of others haven't been able to do. About the best you can hope for is something that will work good in about 90% of cases... someone who has something that falls in the other 10% can just get screwed over and tell them too bad because it works for the majority... I don't like having holes. If you make the perfect game mechanics to handle what you want, you still cant cover for internet connections... without either screwing people over, or leaving holes for jerks to exploit... there are technological limits that cant be surpassed by just planning how to make a game.. since most of the factors are unable to be controlled by the game.

[Jenshae]

Good point - Prmadeath would lead to SUICIDE TWINKS: starter-level captains riding around in starships kitted out with impossibly-high-quality defensive systems, so that they COULD surive to make a ramming-speed run on an enemy.

The lowbie? Their player doesn't care - they were BORN to die.

The lowbie's target? Probably gonna be missed ...

You are baring in mind that there are neutral zones? So these twinks without a levelling system, (I could be wrong but even if they have it) would need to cross through neutral space and into enemy space, find the lowbies and then convince the lowbies to attack them.

Finally, once the lowbies attacked them, they would have high chances of suviving, ways to escape and it wouldn't take just one bump. Look at how they get jolted around, lose shields and go on fighting for ages in the TV shows.
Can limit the maximum damage in PvP to say 30% per hit, that gives should give them plenty of time to hit the "eject button."

However, you are right in a way, it is a bit like security and theft, there is no perfect system, both keep evolving to fit each other but what ever problems there are, solutions can be found as long as you want something to work. Even the current systems have huge flaws, actually the whole MMO gaming world is flawed but that I think can wait for another thread and time.

[Mjoellnir]

Good Lord people. Death is absolutely unrealistic in Star Trek. Protagonists only die if they want to get payed more or play elsewhere (in an MMO that means want to pay less or play elsewhere). And that's what PC's are. Protagonists. So the most realistical way to die would be to call Cryptic if you want to stop playing STO for good and they unlock a special mission for you where you get your heroic death.
Dying in a Star Trek MMO is far easier than in the series, because we can't invent new techbabble solutions, Cryptic could never program all the effects you could get by channeling different energies through your main deflector or by remodulating your warp field. So I prefer either not being killed (with a good explanation) or being able to respawn.
Being able to die has nothing to do with good roleplaying in fact, in forum rpg's I don't let anybody die if he doesn't really act dumb enough to earn it (that means I'm even harsher than the writer's for Star Trek, Picard still lives after bringing fists to a knifefight with Nausicaans and a weak ramming maneuver :D). Roleplaying is about acting the way you should according to the role your playing. That means if you play a Starfleet officer you have to engange a borg cube that tries to assimilate a Federation world even if the odds are against you. Additionally it means that you don't insult alien diplomats, attack the ship of the Klingon ambassador, bomb a pre-warp civilisation or do any other crap "just for the lulz".

[_Pax_]

You are baring in mind that there are neutral zones? So these twinks without a levelling system, (I could be wrong but even if they have it) would need to cross through neutral space and into enemy space, find the lowbies and then convince the lowbies to attack them.
Um, no.

The person who wants to grief others MAKES A NEW CHARACTER, then uses the in-game maling system (or friends, as middle-men) to provide their new, disposable character with all the glorious money / gear / etc they could possibly hope for.

That brand-new-but-obscenely-well-equipped lowbie is then taken to the neutral zone, probably with high-level friends as escorts and possibly in GROUPS of similar suicide twinks ... and looks for a suitable victim.

Finally, once the lowbies attacked them, they would have high chances of suviving, ways to escape and it wouldn't take just one bump. Look at how they get jolted around, lose shields and go on fighting for ages in the TV shows.
My apologies, my statement was also predicated on the concept of Ramming / Collisions being at ALL realistically modelled.


If it were modelled even somewhat realistically, and exists alongside permadeath? The target would be turned into an expanding field of high-energy debris, instantly. I've gone over the math before, but ... a Centaur-class starship masses ~870,000 metric tons (per the DS9 Technical Manual). Thus, at 1m/second, it has a kinetic energy potential of 435 megajoules. At a speed of only 100,000,000 meters per second - one-third the speed of light, easily achievable with Impulse drive alone, a Centaur-class ship has a kinetic energy potential of (100,000,000 x 100,000,000 x 435 =) 4,350,000,000,000,000,000 megajoules.

That's actually 4,350,000,000,000 Terajoules. And at least during the TNG era, Phasers aboard Federation starships were incapable of reaching a SINGLE terawatt of output power (and one watt = "one joule, per second". So that kinetic energy potential represents far mro energy than any Phaser bank could emit, period, except over the course of WEEKS (as a steady, sustained beam). There is NO shield, NO armor, NO FEDERATION OR KLINGON STRUCTURE that could survive that impact. Period.

That's going to be a starter ship, keep that in mind.

[ivan50265]

Ahhh the perma- death debate. I was wondering when it would surface here. Perma-death is not viable the most hardcore of games does not kill you but respawns you naked with the knowledge that your killer is looting your stuff. Having to reroll chararcter would get annoying fast and people would stop playing and since this company desires to make money off of their game it jsut won't happen.

[Jenshae]

... The person who wants to grief others makes a new character, then uses the in-game maling system (or friends, as middle-men) to provide their new, disposable character with all the glorious money / gear / etc they could possibly hope for.

That brand-new-but-obscenely-well-equipped lowbie is then taken to the neutral zone, probably with high-level friends as escorts and possibly in GROUPS of similar suicide twinks ... and looks for a suitable victim.

[ Cute techno babble and a monthly discharge.]
...

I understood what you were saying but what I am wondering is; why the new player would be in a neutral zone with no warning about the potential dangers in the first place?

I have seen what you are talking about. I play a game with one of the most complex twinking systems. Yet so very oddly, I still think that perma death is possible to work. This might have something to do with the way they have systems to protect and warn new and PvM players.

[_Pax_]

I understood what you were saying but what I am wondering is; why the new player would be in a neutral zone with no warning about the potential dangers in the first place?
So, you want the Neutral zone to be nothing but Suicide Twinks, and their high-level, "run away at the first sign of a hostile PLAYER ship" shepherds?

[Trekster]

if perma death existed this game's monthly rate should be free, or very very cheap. im not paying 15$ (relatively speaking) a month to be griefed by a borg cube that i took on with a fleet of 15 ships, where 5 of those captains forgot to remod their shields... ultimately resulting in my demise. the demise of my 20 days /playtime -captain/starship.

for all you fart knockers that say you wont play because of it, stick to your simplistic arcade games then, i hate paranoid players anyway

[Jenshae]

So, you want the Neutral zone to be nothing but Suicide Twinks, and their high-level, "run away at the first sign of a hostile PLAYER ship" shepherds?

Don't be naive. If you can twink, people will twink, gank and PvP.

[TheMasterpiece]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..
I can already see this game will be for casual and / or non trek fans...
kids.. and 'hardcore' gamers..

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions



Yea that sounds fun. I really look forward to losing 6 months worth of playtime and loot because i die.

[Jenshae]

Yea that sounds fun. I really look forward to losing 6 months worth of playtime and loot because i die.

Done properly it should only happen if you get drunk that night.

[TheMasterpiece]

Well cryptic has said, and I agree, that games are for fun, especially games we pay for every month. We need to have fun, not worry about penalties.

[knightofhyrule730]

Done properly it should only happen if you get drunk that night.

so...we'll never die? that's no fun. The last legend of Zelda was like that, and I disliked it greatly. I want to die a lot and see "lol rez" on my screen.

[Jenshae]

so...we'll never die? that's no fun. The last legend of Zelda was like that, and I disliked it greatly. I want to die a lot and see "lol rez" on my screen.

... and I think it is just another time sink and bad game mechanics that gets very monotonous, very fast.

[Interdictor]

... and I think it is just another time sink and bad game mechanics that gets very monotonous, very fast.
Well then, you always have the option of deleting your character the first time he/she dies. There - problem solved.

[Thibor]

Done properly it should only happen if you get drunk that night.

And in that statement lies the rub.

Or the WoW forum response ... "MMORPGS are serious business!"

Now the attitude of that response is not what I want to convey but the underlying message of it is.

The system you're advocating for Jenshae would go hand in hand with people having to pay a LOT more attention to their gameplay than they often do some/most nights.

When I choose to raid with my guild in WoW, I try to give 100% because they're people who I've come to respect and I don't want my short comings or mistakes wasting their time. But, plenty of times I just like to screw around with solo play in the game and if I die trying something that I likely won't succeed at (tho still maybe a chance, I may be foolish but not entirely suicidal), then the only person's time I'm wasting in WoW's light death penalty is my own.

With your idea, there would be no screwing around, taking it lightly, or just relaxing having fun in the game because any chance of hostile engagement could set you back weeks/months/years.

As for your "If it's designed right" ... to what difficulty level?
Make it so difficult that only the hardcore achievers are beating the best content and the resulting deaths for everyone else will drive them away.
Make it so easy that everyone who's at least paying attention can get past the content w/out having to worry about death unless like you suggest, they really screw up (ie. get drunk), then those I just previously mentioned will come down on the death penalty as being pointless because it's hardly a penalty to the non-uber gamers and they will likely end up bored with the game.

I know there are plenty of people who get the added andrenaline rush when the risk/reward system has higher stakes. Somehow though I have to believe there's a more common ground to appease those people instead of "Bang! Your dead. You just lost the last year of gameplay. Have a nice day."

[loyaltrekie]

If you look at the title of the thread, I'm pretty sure this started out as a seperate server just for that type of the game, so honestly, if you don't want to play that way, don't? They aren't advocating pushing permadeath unto everyone, so who really cares?

[Vicelance]

If you look at the title of the thread, I'm pretty sure this started out as a seperate server just for that type of the game, so honestly, if you don't want to play that way, don't? They aren't advocating pushing permadeath unto everyone, so who really cares?

theres only going to be one server according to Cryptic. This thread started out as a troll saying that it had to be his way or else and basicly went down hill from there.

[Interdictor]

theres only going to be one server according to Cryptic. This thread started out as a troll saying that it had to be his way or else and basicly went down hill from there.

Yeah - he even whipped out the "threat" card. Love it when they do that :D

[loyaltrekie]

theres only going to be one server according to Cryptic. This thread started out as a troll saying that it had to be his way or else and basicly went down hill from there.

Maybe you misheard, they said they would like to do one server, but they have not decided. Good try stating possibilities as facts, and if this is a troll thread, why is it the same "good" posters keep bothering to bump the thread <.<

[Azurian]

The Devs clearly said they want a single server, it's just they don't know if that will be the case until load testing is completed, to see if it's feasible or not.

[Jenshae]

Well then, you always have the option of deleting your character the first time he/she dies. There - problem solved.

Did you read anything in this thread except the last post at that point? The game mechanics are probably going to be weak, so I would be deleting it a few times a day. No risk, gambles or surprises in that. It is to be expected.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Dear OP,

Just because you want a permadeath does not mean everyone else does as well. Furthermore, to say that everyone should have permadeath force on them just because YOU want it only shows your own selfishness. As someone has already said, if you want permadeath, delete your character when you die. But unless you plan on paying for everyone else's subscriptions, dont say what should happen to their character when they die. In summation, grow up.

Disrespectuly,

The Entire STO Forum community

[_Pax_]

Dear OP,
[...]
Disrespectfully,
/signed. :cool:

[rogerwroten]

If you look at the title of the thread, I'm pretty sure this started out as a seperate server just for that type of the game, so honestly, if you don't want to play that way, don't? They aren't advocating pushing permadeath unto everyone, so who really cares?

Everyone should care. Since servers cost money, it is not cost effective to have a server with very low to no population. Unless you can prove that the said server would have a very high population...

[Profedius]

To many things outside the player control could result in death so there shouldn't be perm death in any MMO. What are the plans for PvP then? Are you saying that if we are killed in PvP that we will have to start over? Good luck finding people that will pay money to play a game where one mistake could have them starting all over again.

[Awarkle]

the only way perma death could possibly happen is if you could go from level 1 to end game content in less than a few hours, in which case you may as well juts play an online fps instead.

also consider if your on a poor connection and you loose con mid fight how would you feel to come back and find your toon perma dead ?

[MorganL4]

who do you think brought this up first

I've been talking about if for over 10yrs

anyway .. they SHOULD have that kind of penalty for the people who want to Role Play
for the people who want consequences for people's actions..

I have a feeling this is going to be a 'run and gun' or 'fly and shoot 'em up' kind of game
with no real RP , no real econ .. just a buncha kids throwing insults around and really
i'm not sure that credits Star Trek .. in fact.. it makes me wonder ..
it's not Gene's vision..


I could say alot about this but really I think at this point I'll save it for the people who are important in Star Trek
and that's not to say I'm going to cryptic .. results are one thing, but being true to Star Trek is another

i have a feeling that this game is going to be considered too geeky/nerdy by the masses and as such the majority of players will be people who are versed in ST lore ( at least to some extent) and as such most people will maintain the general respect that one Starfleet captain shows another. (or in the case of the Klingons the older strong one is the right one) in addition they said they were going to make sure to put measures in place to prevent greefing

[CherryTerri]

There is a difference between the times. It won't be the same fight style. There are two things to consider, ships and characters.
If you run all the time you will get a reputation for it. If you lead people to their deaths, same thing.

... and as I said if your ability to survive is higher and you have more options, the casual players won't be punished. Basic instinct should kick in.

Death is over used, now when you die it is just a case of, "Oh well. How quick can I get back in there and continue?" It is even used to travel when people are too lazy to go back. Death "penalties"? Don't make me laugh. I don't care if my character dies. Even if there is a loss of a few missions worth of XP; so what? Now I just casually get myself killed to make it inconvenient to go back, that I am already back where I want to log off and now is a "great" time to log off or do something else. If I am in a bad team. All too often I will also just die so that they no longer have their healer and expect miracles that they will finally bail out and won't cry to me when they do die because of their own stupidity.

So, death is an every day thing that is boring and now used as a method of cheating or manipulating people.

Edit:
Oh and if you do have computer problems, people will be aware of that and make allowances for it; bail you out of a bad place, protect you and take agg ... but that is only if they care about you. So if you are a turd that no one gives a rat's tail about and they did implement these things then we can expect you to come crying all over the forums.

Okay then ... how about death penalties from EverQuest? A corpse run.

You die a tthe bottom on a dungeon that the only way to get it back is to swim through lava ... and the earring to help you with that along with all your armor and weapons is still on your corpse. That hard enough for you? You end up more than likely dying while trying to GET your first corpse.

I don't see why you think that way as cheating people. When I die I hate it. I don't care what the penalty is. If I die because of someone else's stupidy I hate it more. As for the computer problems? Even in PuGs I had people protect me and they didn't even know me so don't see how that fits.

So what if I run? That's the way I play. So what if I stay and die? I will at least know what I can do!

The way you describe death penalties is very ... WoW centric.

This is another topic that shouldn't be discussed anymore.

I will say as parting, is that I enjoy exploring and I enjoy messing up and dying alot. If I had warnings ALL the time on where i am going, no point looking around for the excitement and fun of an MMO! Yeah I might into a new place .. go ooooooh, then get my head chewed off! I will know not ot go there again yet, but the time exploring a new place was worth the death.

Enjoy the game as you wish, but I do not think perma death will work in this game.

[CherryTerri]

And in that statement lies the rub.

Or the WoW forum response ... "MMORPGS are serious business!"

Now the attitude of that response is not what I want to convey but the underlying message of it is.

The system you're advocating for Jenshae would go hand in hand with people having to pay a LOT more attention to their gameplay than they often do some/most nights.

When I choose to raid with my guild in WoW, I try to give 100% because they're people who I've come to respect and I don't want my short comings or mistakes wasting their time. But, plenty of times I just like to screw around with solo play in the game and if I die trying something that I likely won't succeed at (tho still maybe a chance, I may be foolish but not entirely suicidal), then the only person's time I'm wasting in WoW's light death penalty is my own.

With your idea, there would be no screwing around, taking it lightly, or just relaxing having fun in the game because any chance of hostile engagement could set you back weeks/months/years.

As for your "If it's designed right" ... to what difficulty level?
Make it so difficult that only the hardcore achievers are beating the best content and the resulting deaths for everyone else will drive them away.
Make it so easy that everyone who's at least paying attention can get past the content w/out having to worry about death unless like you suggest, they really screw up (ie. get drunk), then those I just previously mentioned will come down on the death penalty as being pointless because it's hardly a penalty to the non-uber gamers and they will likely end up bored with the game.

I know there are plenty of people who get the added andrenaline rush when the risk/reward system has higher stakes. Somehow though I have to believe there's a more common ground to appease those people instead of "Bang! Your dead. You just lost the last year of gameplay. Have a nice day."

QFT! I think a few other's feel the same way. Good job! :)

[Jenshae]

Dear OP,

Just because you want a permadeath does not mean everyone else does as well. Furthermore, to say that everyone should have permadeath force on them just because YOU want it only shows your own selfishness. As someone has already said, if you want permadeath, delete your character when you die. But unless you plan on paying for everyone else's subscriptions, dont say what should happen to their character when they die. In summation, grow up.

Disrespectuly,

The Entire STO Forum community

Whoa, the ego! Note that he said in the very title "If you die, you're dead server," which implies that he thought it would be a multi-server system and just wanted one of them have this feature.

... and then you think you can speak for, "The Entire STO Forum community?" The audacity of this post is just so funny!

Okay then ... how about death penalties from EverQuest? A corpse run.
...

Again, you are thinking in the box of Everquest, try thinking outside of it for a bit, might help.

[UfcFan78]

ST + Perma death = bad

A penalty for dying is good but losing a toon? No thanks. I wouldn't go to that server. if Cryptic thinks they can make some extra $$ by allowing this kind of server then by all means.........I doubt many would go there.

[osena]

ST + Perma death = bad

A penalty for dying is good but losing a toon? No thanks. I wouldn't go to that server. if Cryptic thinks they can make some extra $$ by allowing this kind of server then by all means.........I doubt many would go there.

i agree i toughed it out durning my time as jedi knight pre cu when Prema death was on jedi think goodness it only lasted for 2 months

[Atavax]

how are you gonna get people to PVP with Perma Deaths? what if they had it so you lost your ship, but the captain survived, and because of his status, he was given command of a similar ship. comparing it to other MMO's it would be like loosing all your gear when you die, but keeping the character.

[OrabIbo]

If they make the server only a few ppl will actually play on it. Nobody wants to risk countless hours working on their character just to have it all taken away if they die. Much less ppl don't always die from being reckless.
Ppl lose their internet connection, lag will make them unable to see what is happening to them before it's to late, get attacked from several PC's at once with no chance of escape.

Why would you make a server that very few ppl would play on? It's not financially sound for an MMO company to do this. Your best bet to get this and still comply with the rules of the server is, what the 2nd poster said.
When you die delete your character and start over! It's not much different that what you are asking for.

Yet, your asking for options that when you die that medical officers should be able to bring you back to life. Well what I have to say to that is, what was the point of arguing for a perma death solution when medic officers can bring you back to life anyway?

And if you have been talking about this for 10yrs. It's even more unlikely that ppl are going to play in this style.
Nobody wants to pay a monthly fee to play their character, just to have all their assets and hard earned skills taken away and have to start over. Not practical in the least.

[MooseOfWoe]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster etc. etc.


I agree with the OP to a certain extent that there should be SOME, if only very minute, form of death penalty. Permadeath....not so much.


I believe there should be some consequence to playing/performing like a complete imbecile.
Many games, most notoriously MMO's, reward time spent playing over actual playing ability in to how powerful one's character becomes. (Or, at least, what tools are at their disposal)

IE: Should someone be granted, say, a Sovereign ship as a reward for beating their head against a wall...exceeding in the task of doing nothing but exploding and perishing in every combat situation? Should a Captain who mindlessly marches off in to battle only to cause the death of he, his shipmates, and possibly his FLEET be constantly bestowed his or her race's top resources?

I think a small penalty...say...a loss of ship class or demotion/demerits would be enough of a system where not everyone in the galaxy is running around in a flying doomsday machine. It would also merit choosing where and when to fight...and how to go about it. This would also give more diversity to ships we'll see if not everybody is able to EARN a top-notch starship.

A mock combat area for those who enjoy endlessly pummeling each other without fear of consequence or loss would be a great alternative. (Outfit ships with fake weapons as seen in several episodes across several series)


Anyway I registered just to post this...because I feel learning curve/challenge/rewarding intelligence vs stupidity is an integral part of any game. It has been stated there will be a mild at best death penalty...and I'm hoping it is just that. If there is nothing whatsoever (or too much) it will kill the game.

[Atavax]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster etc. etc.


I agree with the OP to a certain extent that there should be SOME, if only very minute, form of death penalty. Permadeath....not so much.


I believe there should be some consequence to playing/performing like a complete imbecile.
Many games, most notoriously MMO's, reward time spent playing over actual playing ability in to how powerful one's character becomes. (Or, at least, what tools are at their disposal)
.

i dont think MMO's are notorious for rewarding time spent over actual playing ability. raiding in MMO's is a very skill intensive task in most MMO's that have raiding and its usually the best gear in the game. yes, theres exceptions when PVP is involved because there is no accurate way to measure skill. you make it stat dependent and people find ways to stack stats, theres no way to measure skill.

[ktanner3]

simple enough just delete your character everytime you die and start over.

Well, that beats me typing it. :)

The days of perma death are over. It became very obvious that most players don't like it and it's just too harsh for an MMO. That's best left for single player games.

But if you like you can try Darkfall, where after death you get robbed of everything you have. Pretty much like starting over with the exception of skills.We'll see how long that lasts in the game.

[Jenshae]

Personally, I think that automatic escape pods that are indestructible and ship loss would be the best all round.

As for getting people to PvP? What would be more satisfying for them than to destroy someone's ship?

The main thing though would be better game mechanics and higher survivability.

[_Pax_]

As for getting people to PvP? What would be more satisfying for them than to destroy someone's ship?
Are we back to "satisfaction in PvP derives from taking other peoples' things away from them", again ...?

[Jenshae]

Experience has shown me little different. The only rare cases not like that I have seen are in an intense build game and they wanted to test it against some human players, they didn't do it for any extended period though.

Oh and to feed a belief that they are "better" than someone else, to prop up their weak self esteem.

[UfcFan78]

Isn't "winning" enough?

If a system like this was put into place I would also assume that you could lose your ship/items during PVE encounters, right? It's just a bad idea. What noob would want to go and try to PVP when you could lose what little bit you have? What vet would want his time and effort destroyed because he lost internet connection or his power went out or maybe just had a bad night or whatever.......

I am pro-PVP. I wouldn't want to destroy another player's items. i sure wouldn't want my crap destroyed, lol.

And people saying that this is par for the course for players who pvp is weak sauce. The all encompassing broad brush that's used is getting pretty old.

[CherryTerri]

Again, you are thinking in the box of Everquest, try thinking outside of it for a bit, might help.

Sadly that is the extent of my harsh death penalties as other MMOs I've played did not have them. It was the only example I knew of to add to this conversation.

I am thinking outside the box. And I am seeing it won't work here.

I find it ironic that you have in your signature that Star Trek is about exploration ... when you explore unknown worlds you don't have warning signs ... you have things that come out of no where and kill you. Sometimes you can't escape, sometimes you can.

How would having a stiff death penalty bring fun into exploring the universe? You can argue your escaping from the situation all you want. How does running all the time allow you to explore? Best it can do it let you see really well where you have been.

Well I'm done here. Cryptic already said no stiff DPs. Arguing the point and saying those who want it are just weak whiners wanting the easy way out is ridiculous.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Personally, I think that automatic escape pods that are indestructible and ship loss would be the best all round.

Thats fine, feel free to self-destruct your ship every time you are defeated if that is what you want. Just dont try to force what you want on everyone else.

As for getting people to PvP? What would be more satisfying for them than to destroy someone's ship?

Simple: being REWARDED for winning. If you cannot enjoy winning without somone else suffering, that is your own character flaw.

[Jenshae]

...
Simple: being REWARDED for winning. If you cannot enjoy winning without somone else suffering, that is your own character flaw.

Touch bitter about being called up on having such a big ego?

When I do PvP, it is usually to distract gankers or remove them from a badly designed area. I am a social player actually.

Edit:
... when you explore unknown worlds you don't have warning signs ... you have things that come out of no where and kill you. Sometimes you can't escape, sometimes you can. ....

You have played MMOs and you really said that? There is no point discussing anything further with you or replying. I just can't actually believe that you really would think those things or believe that they wouldn't warn people they are going into a PvP area, that people would be totally oblivious to entering an area that is too high level for them.

Truly mind blowing and since you have no grounding in "reality" there is no foundation to address logic to you on.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Touch bitter about being called up on having such a big ego?

Hardly. The true sign of an overinflated ego is when someone thinks that their own personal game preferences should be forced on everyone; something you and the OP of this thread have in common :o

[Jenshae]

After this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=381778&postcount=95), you don't even have a wooden leg to stand on or any face to save.

... or any scape goats to switch focus to.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

After this (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=381778&postcount=95), you don't even have a wooden leg to stand on or any face to save.

... or any scape goats to switch focus to.

Sorry, but you fail yet again. The truth is, I(or anyone else) CAN speak for the entire STO community in telling the OP not to try and selfishly force his own personal game preferences on others unless he also plans on paying our subscriptions. There is a difference between saying 'this would be cool' and saying 'this is how it should be, like it or not'. Its called tact; learn it, live it :o

[MooseOfWoe]

Never go against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!

Sorry...I had to.

[ngille]

Sorry, but you fail yet again. The truth is, I(or anyone else) CAN speak for the entire STO community in telling the OP not to try and selfishly force his own personal game preferences on others unless he also plans on paying our subscriptions. There is a difference between saying 'this would be cool' and saying 'this is how it should be, like it or not'. Its called tact; learn it, live it :o


You, sir, have stated it succinctly. Going by their previous posts though I doubt it will get through his/her head as the OP hasn't replied in several pages (unless I missed it). The person you replied to seems to only reply in order to fan the flames in this thread.

If I'm wrong, my apologies, but my guess would be they are the type of person that just like to fan arguments/flames/heated discussions.

[UfcFan78]

You are not.

[JerryC]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..
I can already see this game will be for casual and / or non trek fans...
kids.. and 'hardcore' gamers..

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions

Just one simple observation. This IS NOT the old Trek games.

[Ytram]

Why does this thread keep getting bumped? It's not going to happen because no significant amount of people would actually want it to happen.

[Delta4Elite2]

see this is what I'm talking about..
in a star trek online text game, people with responses like this wouldn't even be allowed in the game..here.. you're going to accept their money you see what i'm saying ? every smart ass will be running around thinking their attitude will fly and you know they would never try to talk like that to you in person .. you know In Character (IC) they'd be demoted or released from StarFleet
does anyone see how dumb that is ? he knew what I was saying but really all he did was use it to launch a personal attack

Listen as I'M ONLY GOING TO SAY THIS ONCE! IT WOULD BE BORING AS HELL IF YOU DIED PERMANETLAY I ALONG WITH MANY MORE AND THATS NO ASUMPTION WOULD NOT BUY THE GAME! ITS A GAME LOOK UP THE DEFFINITION OF GAME! ITS NOT REAL LIFE DAMIT WAKE UP. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. If you want that kind of penalty FREEZ YOUR SELF IN A CRYOGENICS CHAMBER AND ASK TO BE A WAKEN WHEN THE UNIVERSE RESEMBLES THE STAR TREK UNIVERSE!
SMART ASS!:mad:

[Delta4Elite2]

AND BUDDY SMART ASS' Will fly around thinking there attitudes are fly ANYWAY! NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE THEY TAKE PLEASURE IN KNOWING OTHERS WILL BE ****ED. HELL THEY'LL ****ING FLY INTO U JUST 2 **** US OF. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS SPORTSMENSHIP OR WHAT EVER ITS ALL GONE TO ****! I know sorry for the anger but it's life.:mad:

[Profedius]

Funny thing is I would put good money on a bet that the first people to cry when they died would be the ones who wanted perm death in the first place.

Perm death is just a way for people to fill their dream of standing out within the crowd of other players and I don’t fault them for wanting to stand out only the means by which they plan to do it. I think the best way to handle it would be to allow players to take part in a quest once they reach the level/skill cap of the game and as they are on this quest if they are killed then their character is deleted if they succeed then they are allowed to progress a little bit beyond the cap and they should gain something visible to all other players. The quest should be extremely difficult and long with the possibility of failure there should also be some intelligence required to complete it. We would also have to create some randomizing of the quest in several stages so that it would be difficult for any website to post a walk through. If a player should take the quest and then fail, but not be killed they would not be able to take the quest with that character again.

[-Brett-]

On the off-chance that the OP returns...

who do you think brought this up first

I've been talking about if for over 10yrs

anyway .. they SHOULD have that kind of penalty for the people who want to Role Play
for the people who want consequences for people's actions..

I have a feeling this is going to be a 'run and gun' or 'fly and shoot 'em up' kind of game
with no real RP , no real econ .. just a buncha kids throwing insults around and really
i'm not sure that credits Star Trek .. in fact.. it makes me wonder ..
it's not Gene's vision..

Somehow I don't think Roddenberry's "vision" required the complete exclusion of anyone with the smallest shred of a life, a job, or a family. That's essentially what your suggestion boils down to. No one that doesn't want to live their life vicariously through a video game is going to be even remotely entertained by having to start all over every couple of hours (at most) of gameplay. Appealing to a handful of uber-nerds to the exclusion of all others is a sure way for this game to fail.

[AFGuardian]

The only game I played that had a permadeath possibility was a MUD called Dragon Realms. It was a heavy RP atmosphere and you were able to build up "extra lives" called favors. To obtain favors you went through some pretty easy temple of riddles and at the end you would be granted the extra life. As you stacked extra lives you would have to go through an extra room. pretty much a time sink. Run out of lives bye bye to your character. The game did have a pretty open PvP concept. in the wilderness you could attack anyone. In the cities....kill someone and the popo come after you and put you in jail. In your classes guild was the only safe spots. The population is relatively small so when there is a bad apple people usually know about who it is. If you did die you could stay in your body until a PAladin or cleric put some kind of seal over your body to protect your goods....then you would have sole access to your bodies gear (Which you would have to loot back). A concept like this COULD be a suitable middle ground. The game was hella fun, but it was because of the population and how they interacted. The population could and would take care of itself, but there was a lack of content. The only thing that kept people in the game was socializing and the fact there was no level capped and the random events in the game.

Straight permadeath I think has no place in the game and I would probably check it out and then stop playing within a couple of months. You give a real consequence to a fake situation. It would restrict what you could do with the game content wise and difficulty wise. Technical issues would own people. Player interaction would suffer as PUGing content has always been massive death in other games. Recruiting for any kind of endgame content would be a nightmare.

using the fore mentioned game a template I could see how the game could still be successful with an increased risk factor and penalty system. I believe a properly balanced and fair system I would support. You could make it where it is not likely for you to die/lose your ship, but often find your self disabled in content. Say once your ship is disabled it is often left alone till you decide to cause trouble again(varies with content and number in encounter when dealing with npcs). possible to be disabled to the point someone has to come tow you back to a starbase/outpost for repairs. If you do happen to die you have "extra lives" (easy to get but additional time sink building them up). You might decide not to have a permadeath for your character but maybe your ship. Run out of extra lives and your get a frigate to captain while a lot of your progress isn't undone...just heavier penalty to work back from for being lazy or stupid.

But in the end I am still a fan of the WoW and FFXI systems. Time sink and loss of money and or experience....you die a lot so it adds up...and its annoying time sink to make sure you have enough money/experience to cover end game activities with your guild/fleet.

[Traveller]

if you wana play like that feel free dont think u will get very far in the game though

[PoqkTer]

Good luck with that.....

[Jenshae]

Sorry, but you fail yet again. The truth is, I(or anyone else) CAN speak for the entire STO community in telling the OP not to try and selfishly force his own personal game preferences on others unless he also plans on paying our subscriptions. There is a difference between saying 'this would be cool' and saying 'this is how it should be, like it or not'. Its called tact; learn it, live it :o

Wake up? He spoke of A server and it is how he wants to play and how it was for him. Then you coming along and thinking you speak for everyone? Where do you get off?

He did NOT say that he wants there to be only one server and that everyone must "suffer" his way. I just am so incredulous at your sanctimonious egotistical blinkered attitude. Guess what? You don't always know best and not everyone agrees with you.

[kingcats]

I could see some time down the road them having perma death server. They should let yo uand your crew do emergency e-vac and self destruct. That way you can live after losing some how.

I understand everyone trying ot get everything they want is this game because this will probly be the last star trek MMO seeing as how its out there if it fails then well bye bye trek MMO

[SirReginaldo]

From the way I see it. Equipment is "expendable", and if a ship were to die, your crew would escape unharmed. Sorry to say this, but that is what escape pods are for. If your ship is set to self destruct, get in a escape pod, use a shuttle or just teleport the heck out of their. If you could/can, try to tele to an allied ship if they drop their shields to let you over. If this game turns out like Bridge Command, then I will be stoked:D

[SirReginaldo]

I could see some time down the road them having perma death server. They should let yo uand your crew do emergency e-vac and self destruct. That way you can live after losing some how.

I understand everyone trying ot get everything they want is this game because this will probly be the last star trek MMO seeing as how its out there if it fails then well bye bye trek MMO

Even if this game were to go, I would not mind if more star trek games would pop up. I have always had a weakness since my father showed it to me for the ships. Every ship holds a place in my heart. They are unique and I hope humanity will one day be able to create space fairing vessels of the sort, even when I am not here:D

[ngille]

Wake up? He spoke of A server and it is how he wants to play and how it was for him. Then you coming along and thinking you speak for everyone? Where do you get off?

He did NOT say that he wants there to be only one server and that everyone must "suffer" his way. I just am so incredulous at your sanctimonious egotistical blinkered attitude. Guess what? You don't always know best and not everyone agrees with you.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how you can call people names here. No one but you have been outright hostile (okay maybe the guy with all caps, but I digress). Instead of having an intelligent conversation of the matter you state that people are sanctimonious or egotistical, you tell people they fail because they have a different opinion than you do.

I'll grant you that no single player knows best and no one is going to agree with everything that anyone says, but if you actually read the posts that have been made in this thread you'll see far more are against this idea than for it.

As far as speaking for the entire STO forums, yeah probably not, but in this particular instance I will say that he probably speaks for the vast majority of us (again read the rest of the thread for validation of that opinion)

[OrabIbo]

Wake up? He spoke of A server and it is how he wants to play and how it was for him. Then you coming along and thinking you speak for everyone? Where do you get off?

He did NOT say that he wants there to be only one server and that everyone must "suffer" his way. I just am so incredulous at your sanctimonious egotistical blinkered attitude. Guess what? You don't always know best and not everyone agrees with you.

But... But... He is the "Grand Nagus" his name says so. He must be right! ;) lol

Yeah I don't know why, ppl are acting so harshly to this opinion. Granted it is very unlikely to happen. Because it's not financially applicable. There are very few ppl that would play on such a server if it was available.

I'm in the boat of several ppl that I would not want to play this way and get things I worked hard for months get taken away, all because of things that may have been out of my control. Like getting ganked, loss of connection with ISP, lag, etc....

And even if it was in my control, starting completely over to earn your hard earned stuff all over again is not anybodies idea of fun. For some though, they have many characters because the fun is in the journey of getting there. But even then, I don't think those players would play if they got to the so called "End game" and their character gets up and deletes itself.

They usually want to keep the character like a reward or or achievement that they can show off. Which is what most MMO players want to do. Earn achievements that they can show off to other players to show their "eliteness" and dedication to the game. For that Ooo awww "where did you get that?" factor! lol

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I just am so incredulous at your sanctimonious egotistical blinkered attitude.

Time to take a break from the internet ;)

Guess what? You don't always know best and not everyone agrees with you.

Which is why I dont try to force some game system I want on everyone else :o

[oleum]

This is the only way I want to play.

Seriously.

that's how the old trek online games did it ..
I can already see this game will be for casual and / or non trek fans...
kids.. and 'hardcore' gamers..

it's probably going to change a lot of people opinion's but..
I gotta say.. that was the only way to play back in the day.. if gave you real consequences for your actions

simple every time you die just delete your character ;)

Or play darkfall - if it weren't so harcore you couldn't even buy it.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

simple every time you die just delete your character ;)

Or play darkfall - if it weren't so harcore you couldn't even buy it.

Sadly, its not that simple. Or it least, ti wasnt for the first person (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=377386&postcount=5) who told the OP the same thing you did :rolleyes:

[TechDragon]

simple enough just delete your character everytime you die and start over.

14 pages and Vicelance already won it on the second post.

What the heck have you guys been talking about for 14 pages??

[jimbo2150]

I don't think perm death should be dolled out. I'm sure for many who get harassed and repeatedly killed would not be a happy paying customer. And also, what about the harassers? Do they get punished? You see the dilemma. I think any kind of resurrection system is better than no system.

Now in terms of if you loose anything when you die, that is a whole other matter. If there is a larger war going on and you die in a large battle then yes I think you should stand to lose something (be it rank, ship upgrades, resources, etc), but just being attacked by some raiders I think you should only loose a minimal amount.

[ngille]

As TechDragon eluded to in his post, this topic has been talked to death and is really a non issue as Cryptic has already announced that there will be no harsh death penalties.

The only reason I am posting is for some reason I can't let the attacks of certain posters go unresponded to, not my nature (not attacks against me, but against some other posters, she seems to ignore what I've been saying lol )

[oleum]

The only reason I am posting is for some reason I can't let the attacks of certain posters go unresponded to <snip> she seems to ignore what I've been saying lol )

Ah it's to get the attention of a female... NOW I understand ;)

[bradley1701]

I don't think there should be perma death for our avatars, but I do believe that after losing our starships maybe 3-4 times in battle that after the final point is used up we have lost that ship forever and need to get a new one.

Games are fun because they have consequences, risk and require the player to work on their gameplay and skills. I don't want to be able to start at point A and do an easy hop skip and a jump to point B even though there were tons of enemies in my face and the odds would have been against me had I been able to lose my ship.

I understand that some have said the gameplay is more fun if all you do is achieve things and don't actually die, but where is the fun for the hardcore gamers?

[oleum]

I don't think there should be perma death for our avatars, but I do believe that after losing our starships maybe 3-4 times in battle that after the final point is used up we have lost that ship forever and need to get a new one.

Games are fun because they have consequences, risk and require the player to work on their gameplay and skills.

I agree completely with this idea. It's not perma death for your captain, its decay of your ship. Decay is a reason that you need to replace materials and or ships. There needs to be some kind of partially gimped fallback type ship you get by default until you can replace the lost ship but the loss should hurt to some degree. Conesquences agree - perma death, its not gonna happen in any MMO , ever.

[hustlecore]

listen the idea of starting all over when you die is crazy i understand loosing your ship and everything u invested in it thats fine but loose'n ya character that would be crazy

[hustlecore]

I agree completely with this idea. It's not perma death for your captain, its decay of your ship. Decay is a reason that you need to replace materials and or ships. There needs to be some kind of partially gimped fallback type ship you get by default until you can replace the lost ship but the loss should hurt to some degree. Conesquences agree - perma death, its not gonna happen in any MMO , ever.



Thant last line u said about games is exactly right

remember games are fun and a way to take a lil break from life not to stress u out like life does

[NicPre]

Yeah, true, I do like Eve-Online's way of doing it, they make the ships so massive, expensive, and time consuming to outfit, that you basically have to RP and be Diplomatic. The loss of a ship really sets you back, especially if you're running your own POS (Player Owned Station) which requires constant upkeep and are often in remote areas of space.

-np-

[hustlecore]

I don't think perm death should be dolled out. I'm sure for many who get harassed and repeatedly killed would not be a happy paying customer. And also, what about the harassers? Do they get punished? You see the dilemma. I think any kind of resurrection system is better than no system.

Now in terms of if you loose anything when you die, that is a whole other matter. If there is a larger war going on and you die in a large battle then yes I think you should stand to lose something (be it rank, ship upgrades, resources, etc), but just being attacked by some raiders I think you should only loose a minimal amount.

lol i disagree death penalties are death penalties and a challenge is a challenge im all for good and even harsh death penalties i.e. loosing your ship because it makes u use tactics and gives you pride at being good at the game whats the point of playing if a baby could beat u by mashing buttons just because of the game machnics i wanna feel danger and like im in a real war not just dink'n around in space for cry'n out loud...when i blow up that klingon i want him to curse my name and ship because of what he lost and when the same happens to be i want to prowl the universe for that one ship so i can return the favor after i recoup and rebuild my assets

[oleum]

lol i disagree death penalties are death penalties and a challenge is a challenge im all for good and even harsh death penalties i.e. loosing your ship because it makes u use tactics and gives you pride at being good at the game whats the point of playing if a baby could beat u by mashing buttons just because of the game machnics i wanna feel danger and like im in a real war not just dink'n around in space for cry'n out loud...when i blow up that klingon i want him to curse my name and ship because of what he lost and when the same happens to be i want to prowl the universe for that one ship so i can return the favor after i recoup and rebuild my assets

I call troll on you.

[UfcFan78]

Thant last line u said about games is exactly right

remember games are fun and a way to take a lil break from life not to stress u out like life does

lol i disagree death penalties are death penalties and a challenge is a challenge im all for good and even harsh death penalties i.e. loosing your ship because it makes u use tactics and gives you pride at being good at the game whats the point of playing if a baby could beat u by mashing buttons just because of the game machnics i wanna feel danger and like im in a real war not just dink'n around in space for cry'n out loud...when i blow up that klingon i want him to curse my name and ship because of what he lost and when the same happens to be i want to prowl the universe for that one ship so i can return the favor after i recoup and rebuild my assets

Is this the same guy?

[oleum]

Is this the same guy?

It is called humour, no not humor , that doesn't exist ;)

[DanSeale]

Yeah, true, I do like Eve-Online's way of doing it, they make the ships so massive, expensive, and time consuming to outfit, that you basically have to RP and be Diplomatic. The loss of a ship really sets you back, especially if you're running your own POS (Player Owned Station) which requires constant upkeep and are often in remote areas of space.

-np-

Which is exactly why STO needs to avoid Perma death ... and extreme penalty for ship loss. This has been disussed several times in the stickied PvP discusisons .. and I agree with Cryptics position: No extreme penalties.

[Jenshae]

... Which is why I dont try to force some game system I want on everyone else :o

You even have a reading filter because I have repeatedly pointed out how the OP and in fact neither do I want to force this system on anyone. I have even put forward a compromise but something like that oddly enough doesn't get quoted.

You sir, are a troll.

*Placed on ignore.*
(I am not upset, right now. I am relaxed, breathing calmly, I just think you are not worth reading or replying to any longer, a simple waste of time.)

[The.Grand.Nagus]

(I am not upset, right now. I am relaxed, breathing calmly, I just think you are not worth reading or replying to any longer, a simple waste of time.)

Thanks for taking the time to reply that my posts arent worth taking the time to reply to! :o