Species versus Personalization

[Nyanya]

Watching the character creation video (the high-definition IGN Insider one) I began wondering something.

When they display the creation of new species they show a couple of things which I wouldn’t really consider part or a “species” and more individualization of a player character (in particular in this case different hairstyles and placing of scars).

So I wonder: how will they differentiate the creation of alien species from character individualization (after all, members of one species don’t look exactly alike generally speaking).

I can imagine a couple of approaches to that. But they have different complexity levels.


Species Separate

The first solution would keep species creation completely separate from character creation. The developers would include a pre-defined list of species (like all the well-known ones), but players have the option to create their own. Here you’d get broad options for skin colour, positioning of facial features, shape of the skull, selecting forehead and nose ridges and such, shape of eyes and ears and mouth, etc. This would also include defining limitations; whether they have hair or not, which styles they’re limited to, what eye colours they’re limited to, whether they always have beards or not, etc. And part of this stage would also be selecting certain ingame bonuses (if species have those, which I think was said they will).

The character personalization stage would be separate from that. When creating a player character you select a species from the list (which would list all the pre-defined ones and any ones you made or got from friends). Then you get the option for some minor adjustments to personalize the appearance. Based on the limitations set for the species you might be able to choose from different hair styles, facial hair, makeup, eye-colour, maybe make some slight adjustment in skin colour (bit darker or lighter), patterns of spots perhaps, maybe make some slight adjustments in skull shape and shape of facial features (slightly bigger or smaller nose, for example), placing of scars, using facial jewellery (earrings and such), etc.

This way you would have one “species” definition and next to that can individualize your character. The benefit is that you’ve got a clearly defined species. This species could be shared with friends and could even be (automatically) uploaded to the server so that the definition can help populate the procedurally generated planets for others and such. I can even see that on character creation you could (optionally) choose to display a list of all species created by all other players so that if someone makes a Mazarite (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Mazarite) species it’ll be available to everyone.

The problem might be that it could be too complex. Particularly defining the limitations each species carries with it could turn out to be troublesome. Saying “hair or no hair” is easy, but harder is to limit it to a set few styles (and what if Cryptic adds new hairstyles later). The creation of species could quickly become quite complex; adding switches for which sliders to lock, which ones to allow minor adjustment, etc. And how to deal with gender? Do you create the two genders simultaneously, or do you create separate definitions? And with the online content sharing it quickly becomes even more complex as you enter into a whole new world of issues (rating, naming, filtering, reporting, etc, etc). None of this is insurmountable, but it could be a lot of work.

Work I think it well worth it (and this is my preferred approach), but the question is whether the developers agree.


Templates

Another way in which they could do it is by making the customization for species and that personalization pretty much the same. Here when you create a species it becomes a “template” for the character customization. Thus when you create a new species you really are just creating a default specimen of the species, to be modified later. For character creation you’d then select a species template and then get the chance to completely customize it. This would give the most flexibility in personalization perhaps, but to such an extent that you could select a Vulcan template as species and make it look like an Andorian. Or a Klingon like a Ferengi. Thus ‘species’ would really just be a starting point for defining your character and once you selected it species becomes utterly meaningless.

Of course you could put restrictions on how much you can individualize a character (a prime candidate is only allowing bonus selection in defining the template), but that quickly puts you back in the first solution. Particularly when you consider that different species would have different restrictions (Bolian males don’t have hair, but the females can have and Romulans seem to only have one hairdresser who also knows only one style, etc). When is customization so much that it’s not the species you started out with anymore?


Universe of Clones

A third solution would be having no personalization at all and all you do in character creation is selecting a species. Here if you want to look different then you have to create a new ‘species’ that is exactly like the existing species with some minor differences. And in this gender would be separate species as well. So you’d have “Human Male 1”, “Human Male 2”, “Human Male 3”, “Human Female 1”, “Human Female 2”, etc. In this solution you’d be able to create a new species starting with an existing one and thus is close to the previous solution, except that each personalization would be marked as a separate “species”.

Though it might seem that this solution takes a step out compared to the previous one (you don’t do customization twice), it in fact adds a step because almost everyone would first copy an existing species and then modify it to your desires. And it’d make it so that there will be a lot of copies walking around of those that do choose the default. So let’s just say that I really hope that they don’t choose this one. But at least it’d make it very easy for someone to jump right in.


Superhero Costume

The fourth solution would be almost the reverse of the previous one. In this there is no species creation, just personalization to a very high degree. In essence you’d create your species and individualize your character at the same time. You might start with one of the pre-defined templates (for the popular species), but you wouldn’t be able to create your own species template beyond perhaps saving your personalized character definition. You’d share your ‘species’ with others (as they said you can do) by just sharing your personalized character definition. This rolls everything into one step, but it also makes ‘species’ rather meaningless. And it differs from the second solution in that there’s no separation between “create a species” and “personalize a character”. In essence in this solution each character could be seen as a unique species, just that there might be a lot of species (like thousands of species of human) that look very similar.


Conclusion

Ideal would be if “species” was a physical something that’s clearly separate from “character”. After all, many characters might share one species. It’d make the species definition more complex (as you’d have to define lots of restrictions to ensure everyone stays within the bounds that define the species and you’d likely have to include all the gender options as well), and as such something fewer people might do (or do well at least), but it’d lead to a more robust list of species that the community could share (preferably automatically) so that there is only one “Mazarite” species and not half a dozen for everyone trying to do their own thing (though undoubtedly you’d get variations on spelling if people disagree with the public version).

But since that’s fairly complex it seems more likely that Cryptic will go with a simpler solution. Perhaps they’ll let you define a species, but allow one to infinitely customize such a species on using it for a character, or perhaps they don’t allow customization being species at all and give you only one customization step. But doesn’t this invalidate “species” entirely?

As such I can’t help but wonder how they’ll do species creation and how they’ll allow for further personalization within that. After all, not all Klingons look the same.

What do you think?

[CherryTerri]

I'd break them down into windows (like choosing race, class, city etc)

1. Choice of basic template or customized template for race
-- body shape can colouring can prolly fall in here
2. Choosing facial features (adding all the parts by cycling through)
3. Choosing any accessories (jewlery, scars etc)
4. Preview of character before choosing class/starting side

[Kestrel]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

[Kinjiru]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

That is... downright awesome Kestrel.

I do have to say that the character creation concept is one aspect of the game that is exactly fulfilling my expectations.

[RyceSTO]

Good to hear.

I have to say I nearly cheered when I saw the nose slider in effect ... allowing you to very granularly change the length of the nose (as well as, apparently, the prominence of the nose ridges that were added). If that level if customization exists for all the facial attributes (for any given species) I'm going to be very very very very happy. (think: eye size, eye separation, eye angle, mouth position, mouth width, ear size, ear position, etc etc etc etc)

I've always been (and remain) a bit of a character customization snob ... I believe this to be one of the most important parts of the game as a matter of fact. It is after all the players first event,and their first introduction to their character.

I guarantee when the game launches I will spend HOURS creating the perfect character before I let myself Iog in to see the universe I've been waiting for (for so long) for the first time. :D

The more customization the better.

We really need to be able to create the character we have in our heads, rather than just the closest thing possible from a mishmash of relatively few face/hair options that some other games offer.

I want to be able to create the face I want to create ... not simply just be able to create a "reasonably unique" one.

[RyceSTO]

(think: eye size, eye separation, eye angle, mouth position, mouth width, ear size, ear position, etc etc etc etc).

I should also add that more 'base structure' things need such granularity as well. (chin shape, forehead height, check bone depth, face roundness, etc etc etc)

[PaperBackHero]

This will keep from having every one looking the same.

[Sevenblade]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

I have to agree with Kinj. Nyanya raised some very good points, all ones I was wondering about myself, but I rather like the way Cryptic is handling that. While there's no perfect solution to this, I'm all for the general template idea. If we want to create our own race, maybe we should be able to pick the Vulcanoid template (which includes such species as Vulcans and Romulans), but then we can alter this template to make a species with similar characteristics, but is clearly distinct (we could say that they evolved from a common Vulcanoid ancestor like the other two). It saves time for people, allowing them to springboard off a general design for a species, but allow them to throw in their own features that set it apart from the rest.

I guess it's kinda moot for me, as I'm too attached to the established species to want to make my own. Though I probably will go hybrid. Makes me wonder what an Andorian/Klingon would look like...blue antennaed crustacean warriors go! :D

[Varrangian]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

Awesome! You've confirmed once again that Cryptic likes to telepathically invade my mind and steal my ideas :D

[Icygrip]

Think there should not be too much costumization beause Star Trek Lore will be lost then.

[Varrangian]

Think there should not be too much costumization beause Star Trek Lore will be lost then.

Care to elaborate? I'm rather confused. It is not like Spock, Tuvok and T'pol all looked exactly alike.

[Icygrip]

Care to elaborate? I'm rather confused. It is not like Spock, Tuvok and T'pol all looked exactly alike.

From the video seams to me that you can put any racial trait form any of the species anyway you want so you can basically go nuts, put as many traits in any way on your avater... like that blue human in the video they put several face traits on him, though hard to tell what option are from the video so I might be wrong.

As well with ship customization I dint want bunch of pink ships flying around.
That is all.

Customization is good but in the boundaries of lore. The part where they say you can create your own race makes me feel you can go nuts and make what you want ex.Blue Ferengii-Jem'Hadar-Klingon haired warrior with Borg implants. On the end there will be buch of wired looking avatars running around.

[Varrangian]

From the video seams to me that you can put any racial trait form any of the species anyway you want so you can basically go nuts, put as many traits in any way on your avater... like that blue human in the video they put several face traits on him, though hard to tell what option are from the video so I might be wrong.

As well with ship customization I dint want bunch of pink ships flying around.
That is all.

Customization is good but in the boundaries of lore. The part where they say you can create your own race makes me feel you can go nuts and make what you want ex.Blue Ferengii-Jem'Hadar-Klingon haired warrior with Borg implants. On the end there will be buch of wired looking avatars running around.

Well the ship customization is a separate issue all together. But as far as species customization, the galaxy is clearly full of millions of species, so as long as it does not cross the line of what Cryptic deems decency then neither you nor I should have a right to say what is or is not fitting for Trek lore when it comes to a "new" species.

[Traveller]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

Wow that sounds like a great idea.:D
Still playing a human though.
Does this work for your bridge crew as well I wounder?

[Powerhelm]

I kinda curious about the possibility of a character creation demo for download? Something even if it doesn't include the abilities then at least something that could include the current character options for character creation...

[Varrangian]

Wow that sounds like a great idea.:D
Still playing a human though.
Does this work for your bridge crew as well I wounder?

According to an interview with Craig, we will have the same options of customizing out bridge crew as we will our avatars.

[Icygrip]

Well the ship customization is a separate issue all together. But as far as species customization, the galaxy is clearly full of millions of species, so as long as it does not cross the line of what Cryptic deems decency then neither you nor I should have a right to say what is or is not fitting for Trek lore when it comes to a "new" species.

Yea I agree, I just want it to feel and look like Star Trek while you play, thus the lore which I feel can be lost with over customization.

All I am saying there need to be balance that is all!

Create new race never seen before......dunno not feeling it... though I get the idea behind it driving it

[Varrangian]

Create new race never seen before......dunno not feeling it... though I get the idea behind it driving it

How are you not "feeling it" when that is practically what happened in every Trek episode there was? Was not the premise of Trek to seek out new life and new civilizations? How do you do that without creating "never before seen" species?

This is something that bothers me more than anything, is people's over conservatism when some myopic concept of cannon. Just because we only see Vulcans, Humans, Klingons, Andorians and the lot over and over again does not mean that the introduction of new player created species is against cannon.

[RyceSTO]

Just because we only see Vulcans, Humans, Klingons, Andorians and the lot over and over again does not mean that the introduction of new player created species is against cannon.

I think what people are afraid of is:

Captain Cuddle Bunny and First officer "Mr Turtle Head" commanding the USS My Little Pony .... etc

I would like to see reasonable constraints on creating new species (i.e. no avatars that look like care bares or unicorns) ... but extensive possibilities for "trek like" humanoids and dang near limitless customization of the myriad of features that make up any such player designed species.

[Varrangian]

I think what people are afraid of is:

Captain Cuddle Bunny and First officer "Mr Turtle Head" commanding the USS My Little Pony .... etc

I would like to see reasonable constraints on creating new species (i.e. no avatars that look like care bares or unicorns) ... but extensive possibilities for "trek like" humanoids and dang near limitless customization of the myriad of features that make up any such player designed species.

So who decides what looks like a carebear and what is a valid attempt at making a ursine like species? Anthropomorphism of felines, reptiles, even turtles is cannon of Trek why should we avoid other animal based species?

[Icygrip]

How are you not "feeling it" when that is practically what happened in every Trek episode there was? Was not the premise of Trek to seek out new life and new civilizations? How do you do that without creating "never before seen" species?

This is something that bothers me more than anything, is people's over conservatism when some myopic concept of cannon. Just because we only see Vulcans, Humans, Klingons, Andorians and the lot over and over again does not mean that the introduction of new player created species is against cannon.

Because these new species creations are not part of the original lore, guess conservative I am, guess that my issue, thing that bother me is that this races will not be races but race on 1 (if everyone goes nuts with customization it will be a big mess you wont be able to tell who belongs were), there will not be any unity (in wow people may look different but you can tell there race and there allot of them).

New races are really not part of the lore cos what you create most likely will be unique, there no one like you in the universe you don't have history, home planet, story.......... cant really call you a race at all, spawn mabie.

My ideal would be original races with tons of customization whitin that race.

But I see your point guess new races make sense they might grow on me over time, need to w8 and see the game.

[Varrangian]

Because these new species creations are not part of the original lore, guess conservative I am, guess that my issue, thing that bother me is that this races will not be races but race on 1 (if everyone goes nuts with customization it will be a big mess you wont be able to tell who belongs were), there will not be any unity (in wow people may look different but you can tell there race and there allot of them).

New races are really not part of the lore cos what you create most likely will be unique, there no one like you in the universe you don't have history, home planet, story.......... cant really call you a race at all, spawn mabie.

My ideal would be original races with tons of customization whitin that race.

But I see your point guess new races make sense they might grow on me over time, need to w8 and see the game.

So introducing species like the Borg is not a part of lore? They were never seen in TOS, but play a role in TNG, DS9 and Voyager...

We only see two of Data's "species" in TNG. We only saw one of the travelers species in TNG and one of Odo's species in DS9 for a long time.

It fits cannon just fine. I'm sure I'll see a species and think, "man what was that player thinking", but it is their right (by paying the monthly fee) to do that. It won't ruin the game for me, it won't ruin Trek for me.

[RyceSTO]

So who decides what looks like a carebear and what is a valid attempt at making a ursine like species?

Well I do, naturally. :p

Anthropomorphism of felines, reptiles, even turtles is cannon of Trek why should we avoid other animal based species?

I'm not saying we should necessarily ... but there is a fine line that should have some level of control to ensure the mood/vision of the star trek universe isn't destroyed. I want to play a STAR TREK game, not Second Life.

Despite my joke above, this "control" should be put in place by the developers - keepers of the Star Trek IP in this game - not by me or other players ... but it should exist to some measure.

The Voth (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Voth) are a good example of a "dinosaur" species that is very Trek and not so much "Barney"

[Icygrip]

So introducing species like the Borg is not a part of lore? They were never seen in TOS, but play a role in TNG, DS9 and Voyager...

We only see two of Data's "species" in TNG. We only saw one of the travelers species in TNG and one of Odo's species in DS9 for a long time.

It fits cannon just fine. I'm sure I'll see a species and think, "man what was that player thinking", but it is their right (by paying the monthly fee) to do that. It won't ruin the game for me, it won't ruin Trek for me.

Thing your missing my point here. With costumazation in STO you wont have a new race like Borg. You will have tons of unique looking avatars which will be race for them self.. there will not be part of the lore; avatar "race" names wont be races name like Borg but they will be called by nick of that player like BigFluffyBunny (back off that my original game nic :D)

[Icygrip]

Well I do, naturally. :p



I'm not saying we should necessarily ... but there is a fine line that should have some level of control to ensure the mood/vision of the star trek universe isn't destroyed. I want to play a STAR TREK game, not Second Life.

Despite my joke above, this "control" should be put in place by the developers - keepers of the Star Trek IP in this game - not by me or other players ... but it should exist to some measure.

The Voth (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Voth) are a good example of a "dinosaur" species that is very Trek and not so much "Barney"


I'm not saying we should necessarily ... but there is a fine line that should have some level of control to ensure the mood/vision of the star trek universe isn't destroyed. I want to play a STAR TREK game, not Second Life.

This is exactly what I mean, nicly put, I want to play STO not Second Life or the Sims
There needs to be limitations and balance.

[Mjoellnir]

Balance won't be a problem as long as all races can have a limited amount of traits, and all traits are equally powerful.
And since the editor allows only humanoid aliens there won't be any SPORE ***** monsters. And you definitely can't get something worse than the Attrexians.:D

[Icygrip]

Balance won't be a problem as long as all races can have a limited amount of traits, and all traits are equally powerful.
And since the editor allows only humanoid aliens there won't be any SPORE ***** monsters. And you definitely can't get something worse than the Attrexians.:D

That would be good. If that was the case.
I just don't know what they mean by create your own new race in the video. Hope they will explain it betta, cos I don't want to play Second Life or Spore in STO

[Mjoellnir]

That would be good. If that was the case.
I just don't know what they mean by create your own new race in the video. Hope they will explain it betta, cos I don't want to play Second Life or Spore in STO

You create the look of a new race by combining different things, like for example making a species that is red-skinned and has white hair and some bone ridges on the head (you've seen how they changed the forehead and the nose of the blue test model?). Then you go to the traits menu (which is probably preset for other races like for example a bonus for humans in diplomacy, or for Klingons in close combat etc.) and choose traits that fit to how you picture your species. Of course they won't get more traits than preset species, so everything should be neatly balanced.
I can't say anything to second life, but as they already said there won't be any any non-humanoids, so no SPORE-Creatures.

[marscentral]

I'm very excited by the creation video. Personally, I have half a dozen species in my mind that I would like to create. Meeting new and exotic species are all a part of the lore, which we are getting to add our own parts too. That's the point of an MMO, to have our own adventures and tell our own stories with our own characters and races. Gaming, especially MMOs are about that collective story telling as opposed to films and television where we can only ever be the audience.

[cbesner]

The creation Video didn't show them able to create any weird care bear creatures just very trek like ones I think everyone is worrying about this a little to much. Unfortunately this being an MMO there will be many ridiculous names for characters and ships that is unavoidable I think. But I don't think you'll see a pink enterprise flying around.

Now Back to what the post was originally about. I think the best way to setup the race creator is to have it in stages like with City of Heroes.

1. Pick race or create one this would create a simple base model with what type of ears, colour, ridges, eyes etc. Also select male of female.
2. Set body type size, height, weigh, muscle, fat, etc.
3. Setup facial features like hair, eye colour, manipulation of all the shapes and positions.
4. Pick your branch: Security, Science, Command, etc.

[Flatfingers]

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

That seems completely reasonable. Actually, it reminds me of the design-your-own-race starting section of Master of Orion II, only with a lot more capability in the physical appearance department... and I really like that game!

Speaking of which, if I may make a suggestion?

The simple approach to the "pool of options" design is to give every player some set number of points and let them (or require them to) spend all those points on racial abilities. Nothing wrong with that.

But MoO2 put an interesting spin on it: your score at the end of the game was increased by some percentage depending on how many cool racial abilities you refused.

In other words, you could pick (say) 10 points' worth of perks, and your score at the end of the game would be whatever it was. Or you could choose to limit yourself to only 7 points of perks, and your score at the end of the game would be increased by 30%. Take no perks at all, and your score would be doubled (increased by the full 100% possible).

Being able to choose racial abilities was already fun. Rewarding the player for choosing to minimize such specializations made the character creation phase of play even more fun because it imposed a cost to each advantage. Instead of just grabbing everything you could, deciding which perks to take became a much more interesting set of choices.

So what about the idea of doing something like that in Star Trek Online?

Obviously there's no "winning" score here -- we don't want people thinking, "Hey, I beat Star Trek Online; I can stop subscribing now!" :)

But what about modifying the amount of reward that players get for performing actions like completing missions based on the number and strength of the racial abilities they give themselves?

Suppose that for every racial ability up to the maximum possible number that I choose not to take when I create my character, the amount of prestige I receive for successfully completing a mission is increased by (say) 10%. Would that make the character creation stage of Star Trek Online more fun?

Or would it feel less fun, as though players were being "penalized" for enjoying the fun of having as many perks as other players would be perceived as taking?

Comments welcome!

--Flatfingers

[Manx]

That seems completely reasonable. Actually, it reminds me of the design-your-own-race starting section of Master of Orion II, only with a lot more capability in the physical appearance department... and I really like that game!

Speaking of which, if I may make a suggestion?

The simple approach to the "pool of options" design is to give every player some set number of points and let them (or require them to) spend all those points on racial abilities. Nothing wrong with that.

But MoO2 put an interesting spin on it: your score at the end of the game was increased by some percentage depending on how many cool racial abilities you refused.

In other words, you could pick (say) 10 points' worth of perks, and your score at the end of the game would be whatever it was. Or you could choose to limit yourself to only 7 points of perks, and your score at the end of the game would be increased by 30%. Take no perks at all, and your score would be doubled (increased by the full 100% possible).

Being able to choose racial abilities was already fun. Rewarding the player for choosing to minimize such specializations made the character creation phase of play even more fun because it imposed a cost to each advantage. Instead of just grabbing everything you could, deciding which perks to take became a much more interesting set of choices.

So what about the idea of doing something like that in Star Trek Online?

Obviously there's no "winning" score here -- we don't want people thinking, "Hey, I beat Star Trek Online; I can stop subscribing now!" :)

But what about modifying the amount of reward that players get for performing actions like completing missions based on the number and strength of the racial abilities they give themselves?

Suppose that for every racial ability up to the maximum possible number that I choose not to take when I create my character, the amount of prestige I receive for successfully completing a mission is increased by (say) 10%. Would that make the character creation stage of Star Trek Online more fun?

Or would it feel less fun, as though players were being "penalized" for enjoying the fun of having as many perks as other players would be perceived as taking?

Comments welcome!

--Flatfingers

I loved Master of Orion 2 (won't run on my current computer though :().

I'm thinking that racial characteristics won't be a huge deal; in Star Trek you rely on your technology far more than the strength of your back. Therefore, long term bonuses for not taking full advantage of them (like exp bonuses) might, eventually, cause balance issues.

However, perhaps a more immediate benefit? Say, if you did not want to use all of your racial attribute points when you make your character, you get a bonus to your starting skill points instead?

Trading off muscle or brains (or whatever) for raw talent I guess.

[Flatfingers]

However, perhaps a more immediate benefit? Say, if you did not want to use all of your racial attribute points when you make your character, you get a bonus to your starting skill points instead?

Trading off muscle or brains (or whatever) for raw talent I guess.

Very nice!

I had been thinking myself that a MMORPG is a bit different from a single-player turn-based strategy game in that you'll probably have your character in the MMORPG for a lot longer. Allowing some folks to have a long-term reward bonus (even at the cost of some fun special abilities) could indeed have some long-term play balance repercussions.

So I think your suggestion is an improvement over where I started. I'd really enjoy seeing something like what you proposed, since it definitely fits the bill of making racial ability selection more interesting than everyone trying to grab as many abilities as possible.

--Flatfingers

[Decius]

So far I'm really liking what I'm seeing from the character creation video, a lot of possibilities. Now the only problem I would have with it... is do I create a standard known species or strive to create something completely my own. Hmmm.. decisions.

[MajorD]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

Vulcan ear length, size, and angle can be different, eyebrow size and angle can be different, and hair can be as varied as any human. Skin tone can also be very varied, considering someone such as Tuvok. Vulcans could reasonably range from very slightly greenish, as if flushed or sunburned, to dark brown. Perhaps they would tend to more vertical faces but over all they should have all of the adjustments a human face would have, such as eye size and depth, lip size and placement, chin, and so on.

[Nyanya]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.
Thank you. :)

Still leaves some questions open (as it always does until we get to see it in action), but certainly also answered a number of my concerns. So thank you.



New races are really not part of the lore cos what you create most likely will be unique, there no one like you in the universe you don't have history, home planet, story.......... cant really call you a race at all, spawn mabie.
Says who? You might not call it valid perhaps since it's not 'official', but I've got quite an extensive background (which I feel fits within the Star Trek lore) for the species I intend to add.

Just because it didn't appear in one of the episodes doesn't mean that it can't have history, a home planet, a story, etc.



I'm sure I'll see a species and think, "man what was that player thinking"
I'm sure there are some official species in Star Trek that has you thinking "what were they thinking" too. ;)



The Voth (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Voth) are a good example of a "dinosaur" species that is very Trek and not so much "Barney"
What about the Gorn (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Gorn)? Far more "Barney" of a "dinosaur" species and very much an official part of Star Trek.



Thing your missing my point here. With costumazation in STO you wont have a new race like Borg. You will have tons of unique looking avatars which will be race for them self.. there will not be part of the lore; avatar "race" names wont be races name like Borg but they will be called by nick of that player like BigFluffyBunny (back off that my original game nic :D)
Star Trek has many, many, many species. Sometimes a species appears only in a single episode, and some of those times just very briefly. Though of course we all know the big, familiar species there are loads that I seriously wouldn't be able to name if I saw them.

As such it wouldn't matter to me, when I run into an unknown species, whether that species exists officially in the lore or whether someone invented it and added it themselves. One nose ridge makes about as much difference as another.

As for the names, it wouldn't surprise me if you never actually see the names of the races the other players created (unless they choose to share it with you). But even if you do then it's just a matter that players will always create poorly-fitting names even just for their characters. Does it really make a difference if you see a character named "BigFluffyBunny" or a character with a race named that?



However, perhaps a more immediate benefit? Say, if you did not want to use all of your racial attribute points when you make your character, you get a bonus to your starting skill points instead?

Trading off muscle or brains (or whatever) for raw talent I guess.
That sounds good to me. Though I can see that they'd add 'general' things like that anyway. So one of your racial benefits would be "bonus starting skill points". You'd still have to select the same number of benefits, you just choose a few more general ones instead of more specific ones.

[SenshiBat]

an improved image v the movies actor generator..

Stats to buff your Chosen Field of Specialty.. Garage machanic or Ferrari mech Veshace Tailor or Gucci knock off
warp core or wind up rubber band engineer.. Tactical MACO or Astromechanics.. skill points make sence.
command motivation skills or repair and upgrade design and construction skill bonus.

[ymichael]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

From what I've seen of the trailer, the customization is perfect. Cryptic is dead on. But the thing that concerns me the most is the "racial abilities." So many MMO's have failed at this. For example, Vulcans can mind meld and nerve pinch...really cool abilities. I potentially see a universe in which 90 percent of Federation players want to be Vulcans because they are cool with great racials.

I simply hope that you guys keep racial abilities balanced in a way that a player would want to play a human as much as a Vulcan. One particular MMO, a big one, recently dumped its racials for a class because of balance problems. It took four long years for them to decide to do it, but they finally realized the racial abilities were imbalanced. Finally. I believe the Cryptic Team can do better :)

[Trekkie]

To be honest customization is one of the aspects of the game that I have never worried about in the slightest, but it is good to be reassured that races will be highly customizable all the same. Considering the relatively uniform nature of a lot of the Star Trek universe I was concerned that many characters would look sort of similar, but the more that we have learned about the game the more I realize that players will have many opportunities to distinguish the appearance of their characters, which is undoubtedly a good thing.

[Desterion]

I hope we're able to create some races beyond the standard 2 eyed, 2 eared, 2 legged humanoid that pretty much all star trek races are. Enterprise started exploring the possibilities with the Xindi but i hope it can be expanded upon. Not so much as playing a full blown insect, but fluff like being able to add cat ears or something.

[TheMasterpiece]

I hope we're able to create some races beyond the standard 2 eyed, 2 eared, 2 legged humanoid that pretty much all star trek races are. Enterprise started exploring the possibilities with the Xindi but i hope it can be expanded upon. Not so much as playing a full blown insect, but fluff like being able to add cat ears or something.



Watching the character creation video and reading about possibilities it sounds like we'll have a wide array of options. Bipedal only in the beginning was mentioned but that doesnt mean its restrictive.

[Flatfingers]

I hope we're able to create some races beyond the standard 2 eyed, 2 eared, 2 legged humanoid that pretty much all star trek races are. Enterprise started exploring the possibilities with the Xindi but i hope it can be expanded upon. Not so much as playing a full blown insect, but fluff like being able to add cat ears or something.

How about the Hydrans (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Fleet_Universe#Hydran_Kingdom) from the Trek-like universe of Star Fleet Battles?

Hydrans are short non-humanoid creatures, approximately four feet tall, with three arms, three legs, and three eyes. They also have three genders (male, female, and matriarchal), and all births are triplets - one of each gender. ... Hydrans are methane breathers; their home planet, Hydrax, has a methane-rich atmosphere that would be fatal to unprotected Humans.

;)

--Flatfingers

[IG_Slayer]

Yeeeeah, I love customization.

[deanp3]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

This is neat, I really do like the character creation process for COH/COV .. So I expect that STO will be even better.

[deanp3]

I hope we're able to create some races beyond the standard 2 eyed, 2 eared, 2 legged humanoid that pretty much all star trek races are. Enterprise started exploring the possibilities with the Xindi but i hope it can be expanded upon. Not so much as playing a full blown insect, but fluff like being able to add cat ears or something.

I agree, it would be nice if you could "create" outside of the box in this area.

[Loekii]

What about heights? Are we limited to one height, or can we make short races - ie like a 3' halfling or goblin type race, or large races like a 8' Kzinti?

[Nyanya]

What about heights? Are we limited to one height, or can we make short races - ie like a 3' halfling or goblin type race, or large races like a 8' Kzinti?
City of Heroes/Villains had quite some height differences, though I think not quite that much (close though).

[cv_coco]

Interesting to see that mixed races hasn't been mentioned once in this thread. This is something Cryptic has stated several times and in my opinion has a definite impact on how flexible the creator has to be. After all you then have features of both species that have to be adjustable to a much greater extent than would be likely for just the one species (like for instance Klingon ridges cfr. B'Elanna). Same for abilities as a later step.

[Loekii]

City of Heroes/Villains had quite some height differences, though I think not quite that much (close though).

Do you happen to have any screenshots? I am curious about how they do it. SWG simple reduced the scale, so a 4.0' humanoid just looked like a reduced copy of a 6.5' humanoid, like it was shot by a shrink ray -- instead of just looking shorter.

I would rather have something more realistic looking -- like how dwarfs dont look like shrink-rayed humans,

[Nyanya]

Do you happen to have any screenshots? I am curious about how they do it. SWG simple reduced the scale, so a 4.0' humanoid just looked like a reduced copy of a 6.5' humanoid, like it was shot by a shrink ray -- instead of just looking shorter.
CoX did pretty much the same thing; Just scaling the model down.

I would rather have something more realistic looking -- like how dwarfs dont look like shrink-rayed humans,
For that you either need a separate model or enough scale controls so that you can scale the width of arms and legs and such independently (though even then it might not look as natural as you'd want). Also note that it's not just the model, but the animations as well; someone built like a dwarf doesn't walk the same was as someone built like a human.

I wouldn't expect completely different models and animations and such, but perhaps they'll give enough scaling controls to at least make it look a little less than a scaled-down human.

[Loekii]

Vanguard included width sliders that gave the illusion of 'shortness' instead of photocopier reduction, but that would mean adding another slider to the CG, which may not be practical.

I certainly hope they copy the multiple torso system, as I dont think Gorns, Kzinti, Nausicans, etc should share the same torso/arms/legs as humans and vulcans.

[KO_Gilligan]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

The way we're looking at it now (and remember, we're still working on this!), choosing one of the Trek races means you get preset racial abiltiies and maybe some preset character options -- all Vulcans have pointed ears, for example. But there's still a lot of room to customize the appearance of your character.

When you design your own race, you choose the appearance and then you pick the racial abilities from a pool of options.

Urban Translation:

Cool sliders and buttons to pimp up your look. Custom Races = more Cool buttons and sliders

[Loekii]

There will be customization within races. Not all Vulcans look the same.

I do hope there is a short leash on how diverse Vulcans may look and still be considered vulcan.

[KO_Gilligan]

I do hope there is a short leash on how diverse Vulcans may look and still be considered vulcan.


I can see people crying foul on this one. Is that Chewbacca with pointed ears a customized race creation?
Knowing Cryptic, and seeing that CO "Rate My Champion" thing, the diversity of humanoid things might be overwhelming. What bugs me is how people seem to pick so many gothic-evil monstrosities. What would your mother say if she knew a Captain in the Federation looked that way?

[Kinjiru]

I can see people crying foul on this one. Is that Chewbacca with pointed ears a customized race creation?
Knowing Cryptic, and seeing that CO "Rate My Champion" thing, the diversity of humanoid things might be overwhelming. What bugs me is how people seem to pick so many gothic-evil monstrosities. What would your mother say if she knew a Captain in the Federation looked that way?

Heh, what about a Tellarite?

"Yeah mom, that pig-faced thing is my captain." :)

[Manta2015]

Thanks greatly for the response, Kestrel ~ It's appreciated =)


-Manta-