My thoughts

[Jesse3581]

Long time lurker here :)

I recently got COH/COV and I'm addicted! It has given me great insight into how MMOs work and what Cryptic is doing. I think STO is going to be a great game!

I think, based on how the storyline is shaping up, that the holographic rights legal battle will result in holographic crews. Which how they are able to be respawned, minus some experiance. If that's not the case, I think that's the way it should be :) It will also explain the customization of the bridge crew.

[Urantia]

Hail and welcome...only did the trial for CoX and gave it a C+...was a bummer capping out at lvl 14 but eh...got enough of a feel for it to know I would not be playing it beyond the trial. Be interesting to see how they handle NPC crews and what types they can be...or whether it will matter beyond vanity minus potential stats for the "species." there has been much disscussion on this....personally I think it would be lame if NPC type does matter. I suppose we shall have to wait.

[Grox]

Huh? Legal battle?.... holographs?

Oh... Did you mean in the show involving the EMH?

[Urantia]

Huh? Legal battle?.... holographs?

Oh... Did you mean in the show involving the EMH?

I just realized my reply was slighty askew :).

[weirdguy]

CoH is a good game. The character creation is superb, and litterally half the fun of the game. That ought to get even better in the next free expansion where you get to design your own arch enemy to fight.

It did fall flat when it came to that peculiar trait of most MMO's, the Phat Lewt. Because there was no hardware to collect and use for yourself, the game felt empty. All you did was level up.

I hope in Star Trek Online there will be more gear to collect, build and install into our ships. I would love to have a forward disrupter cannon on my Vorcha that was half the size and twice the firepower as a standard one, all because I was able to craft it myself using the rare purple Dylithium Crystals for a focusing lense, and Tritanium meta for the casing.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

It did fall flat when it came to that peculiar trait of most MMO's, the Phat Lewt. Because there was no hardware to collect and use for yourself, the game felt empty. All you did was level up.

Um, excluding enhancements, which not only play a pivotal role in customizing your character's abilities and performance, but now includes rare, craftable sets?

[weirdguy]

Not really, because I found the enchancments part of the CoH game to be as dull as it can get.

Most games have TWO rewards when you get something nice. The first is a stat boost of course, but not everyone plays for stats. In a fantasy MMO when you get a new sword with good damage and nice stats, you also get a new sword graphic to show off to everyone around you. Like a +30 damage stats, and a sword that has a blade that floats in mid air above the crosshilt of the handle by magic. I promise you that people will notice the floating blade first, and may never notice that you do a bit more damage.

In CoH, you just get a icon with some stats....thats it. They lost the fun part, the part where you show off and people can see it. What is the point to having awesome stats if you don't seem any different from the next guy?

Lets translate this to Star Trek online and say I do get a new forward disrupter cannon for my Vorcha Klingon Cruiser, and now I fire 5 shot bursts out of that weapon instead of a single shot. That would be more rewarding to me than just doing 10% more damage per attack. OK, a second example. All of use are using Federation ships with shields that glow blue when hit, until we all see your ship get hit and your sheilds are purple (the classic MMO color used to represet the best of the best in gear).

Now we all start asking you what you have and where we can get it? You are the center of attention for a short while. It is fun to be noticed as special, right?

There are all sorts of sublte ways to show off good gear in Star Trek if you look. Example, in TOS the photon torpedoes were blue, in the motion pictures they were red, in TNG they were also red, and in later movies torpedoes were blue-white quantum torpedoes. Quantum torpedos coicidentally had better stats one would think (that was a blantent rhetorical question, so don't answer that). Even with the two red torpedes between the movies and TNG, the sound effect changed, and that might mean those two have different stats.

And why did the Refit Enterprise have a glowing gold deflector dish in the first movie, and then a blue one from then on? Obviously something changed. Porbably got bigger and better one would think.

Stats are for mathemticians. Don't forget that people often like shiny things to show off to other people in the crowds.

[Urantia]

CoH is a good game. The character creation is superb, and litterally half the fun of the game. That ought to get even better in the next free expansion where you get to design your own arch enemy to fight.

It did fall flat when it came to that peculiar trait of most MMO's, the Phat Lewt. Because there was no hardware to collect and use for yourself, the game felt empty. All you did was level up.

I hope in Star Trek Online there will be more gear to collect, build and install into our ships. I would love to have a forward disrupter cannon on my Vorcha that was half the size and twice the firepower as a standard one, all because I was able to craft it myself using the rare purple Dylithium Crystals for a focusing lense, and Tritanium meta for the casing.

Aye....very cool idea from Cryptic et al.....one I know I never saw in any other MMORPG I ever played. I have also mentioned on these forums at differing times in the past how I this would make an interesting addition to this project as well. In short, I would like to see that in STO.

[weirdguy]

From what I understand Cryptic doesn't work on City of Heroes anymore, but they are close to releasing Champions Online, which basically is CoH-2.

Champions has the arch enemy creation already built into it. City of Heroes is run by NC Soft, now, and they're also putting that feature into CoH.

However, Champions goes one further and also has a power creation gimmick as well. I assume that means you can pick and chose effects and powers to mix together, such as you prefer a green laser that shoots out of your eyes, while I prefer red lasers that fire from my hands.

I hope that Crypic continues that trend, and from what I have seen they are. You can design your own alien race (sounds a lot like costume creator from CoH, though we can't change clothes this time because its a uniform). Also, there seem to have what I call a "Kitbash" system, where you can design a ship from a library of stock parts. You can have different engine nacelles, and they're mounted on a wing that swoops backwards instead of forwards.

That sort of thing.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

In CoH, you just get a icon with some stats....thats it. They lost the fun part...

You do appreciate that what might very well be the "fun part" for you, can be a major detractor for other people? Personally, part of the greatest joy for me in City of Heroes was the very fact that my appearance (excluding the visual effects of powers themselves, of course) was completely independent of my performance/build — and in large part, available at level one character creation. I loved that enhancements were an "under-the-hood" mechanic for improving/customizing my capabilities and didn't detract/alter my costume.

That said, City of... has gotten a taste of your visual, "phat lewts". For example, costume items such as wings and jet-pack boots have been introduced as craftable, looted recipes. Furthermore, exclusive weapons, armor and other accessories have been included as rewards for obtaining badges.

Now we all start asking you what you have and where we can get it? You are the center of attention for a short while. It is fun to be noticed as special, right?

Yes and no. You risk alienating the playerbase (not to mention your friends) if the desirability of something significantly outweighs its attainability (see SWG and Jedi). Also there's the issue of the "clownsuit" phenomenon. This occurs (all too often in gear-oriented MMOs) when players are faced with the dilemma of choosing between aesthetics and performance. We've all seen it; the guy wearing a yellow hat, purple cape, brown shoes, and a polka-dot w0aistcoat. Not because it looks cool (although there's one of those in every crowd too), but because the stats are the shiznit.

To their credit, Turbine has addressed this in their own way with a recent addition to LotRO by introducing a system wherein players can override the visual appearance of items (presumably with favorable stats) with alternative clothing/armor/weapons/etc. that are cosmetically more appealing.

[Itsbeenalongroad]

I think it would be cool if loot was shown in STO but it's not that huge of a deal to me since our avatar will be part of an organization, so they shouldn't look different, and our ship is a ship. So the ship maybe would be ok for displaying loot, but definatly not the avatar.

I also fear what crypticfan was speaking of, the clownsuit. I played a certain MMO, name doesn't matter, and when I got to the mid point of the game I looked ridiculous. I was a sweet tank, but I looked ridiculous. Having awesome stats is nice, but things need to blend. Or atleast have the ability to be blended via paint or dye or whatever.

[Varrangian]

To the OP. CoH/CoV are good tastes of the MMO world. While Cryptic is no longer involved in those projects the foundation they laid in those games still exists.

I do believe that both CO and STO will be different not only from CoH/CoV but also from each other, so keep in mind that one example of game play (hopefully) is not a statement for all gameplay.

As to address the issue of "visual vs. stats". This is something I hated about many MMO's was that in order to have good stats I had to sacrifice the look of my character. I really, really hope that STO addresses this. Especially since I doubt I'll be coming across a "starfleet spandex suit +3".

[weirdguy]

I hate the clownsuit phenomenon as well. Hate it with a passion. It definitely has no place in Star Trek Online, because the look of the shows is iconic now, and shouldn't be messed with (looks at the new screenshot of a rusty red Miranda in disgust).

That is why I suggest something a bit more subtle. While stats should change something to look different, it doesn't need to be radical. Try just using a slight change in color for anything that glows, different rates of fire for weapons, and different sound effects.

But, I don't like everyone with the same ship to be 100% exactly alike.

This is probably worth making it's own thread about, since we're now off the subject of City of Hereos.