Run-abouts as starter ships

[weirdguy]

I always thought of what would make a good starter ship for this game, and I think Runabouts would work for that job.

It would certainly make getting your next ship something special, as a runabout isn't really that impressive of a ship.

I have even seen a schematic for a Romulan Runabout, and it was fairly neat looking. Aparently it was also seen in a TV show somewhere, but I never watched DS9 or Voyager that much.

This is where I saw it, and it is listed under the "official ships only" section.

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/romulan/warpshuttle_h10.jpg

Anybody know where that one appears?

[Toaster87]

Ir its on DS9...the one where they try to get the romulans to join in with the domninion war...."Conspiracy" i think

[Powerhelm]

I'd actually like to see them adopt the Delta Flyer design as the prolific utility small craft. It proved itself repeatedly in the Delta Quadrant and the Runabouts by 2409 will be a bit old.

[weirdguy]

Yup, that was the one.

I found this video (a clipped down version of the episode). The "warp shuttle" appears at time index 4:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoKnCEcnFLg

Now we just need to see a Klingon Run-about.

[_Pax_]

I've been a proponent of Runabouts (or factional equivalent) as "N00b Ships" from Day One. The Federation Danube class runabouts are even described as being highly modular, allowing for a great deal of customisation - and/or, for variants of the same hull to be classified as any of hte three Ship Types the Federation will have (Explorer, Escort, & Science).

[Dahakra]

I'm very much agreeing here. I think a Runabout or Deltaflyer sized and type of ship was an inspired choice by Cryptic. I can very much imagine something like this being commanded by a Lieutenant, long before promotion all the way up to Captain. Also, what a great link weiredguy :D

- Dahakra

[SiskoBell]

I could see runabouts as starter ships. But I think small scout ships like the Nova class, or something similar to an Oberth would be good too.

[Fencer8]

It has been mentioned that ships will be sized (1,2,3,4,5,etc.) The smallest is size 1. So what ever Cryptic claims is that size every one will start there and most likely unlock all of that size class before ranking up to the next size class. The size class maybe done up on a mix of volumetric displacement, mass, number of crew, and maximum power for the class to determine which class vessels fit into.

[cv_coco]

The Romulan shuttle was featured in DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight_(episode)).

I agree that a runabout would be a nice first step. It's big enough to handle a few officers, can defend itself (albeit minimally), has cargo space and is warp capable. Everything you need to get started.

[_Pax_]

Even if it's just the ship you fly for yout tutorial, and first dozen missions, I think it'd be a good choice.

[weirdguy]

The first couple of hours playing will always be the way to hook people into playing.

Getting your first real upgrade, going from a runabout to an actual ship (say a USS Nova or IKS B'rel Bird of Prey) will be one of those once in a lifetime experiences you cannot do again.

You log on, you play with the runabout doing the tutorial, you do your first couple of missions and level up a few times, then at level 5 you get your promotion and get your small starship. Even better if it is treated as an event, maybe even a cutscene of the ship being revealed in spacedock, complete with rousing music.

You won't feel bad getting out of a Runabout, since it isn't really a ship, just a utility craft, a big shuttle.

Getting your starter starship right away as soon as you log in reminds me of something my Dad used to say.

"If you get something for nothing, then you treat it like nothing."

I can give up that runabout with no second thought. I also think they are intersting craft. I just don't want to keep it for long.

[neomarsala]

I've also always thought that a runabout would be the perfect starting craft.

[whatinblueblazes]

A runabout or something of similar size (like the Sacajawea from the old Perpetual concept art, perhaps?) would work nicely as a starting ship. It'd be nice if you got to keep the starter runabout stored aboard your new, larger ship as an auxiliary craft, complete with whatever upgrades you'd made to it.

[_Pax_]

Getting your first real upgrade, going from a runabout to an actual ship (say a USS Nova or IKS B'rel Bird of Prey) will be one of those once in a lifetime experiences you cannot do again.

You log on, you play with the runabout doing the tutorial, you do your first couple of missions and level up a few times, then at level 5 you get your promotion and get your small starship. Even better if it is treated as an event, maybe even a cutscene of the ship being revealed in spacedock, complete with rousing music.
^^^^^ Pure Genius and distilled /WIN. ^^^^^ :cool:

[Mr.Smithy]

The first couple of hours playing will always be the way to hook people into playing.

Getting your first real upgrade, going from a runabout to an actual ship (say a USS Nova or IKS B'rel Bird of Prey) will be one of those once in a lifetime experiences you cannot do again.

You log on, you play with the runabout doing the tutorial, you do your first couple of missions and level up a few times, then at level 5 you get your promotion and get your small starship. Even better if it is treated as an event, maybe even a cutscene of the ship being revealed in spacedock, complete with rousing music.

You won't feel bad getting out of a Runabout, since it isn't really a ship, just a utility craft, a big shuttle.

Getting your starter starship right away as soon as you log in reminds me of something my Dad used to say.

"If you get something for nothing, then you treat it like nothing."

I can give up that runabout with no second thought. I also think they are intersting craft. I just don't want to keep it for long.

I like the idea, but it probably should be for an even shorter time. Just like a basic tutorial then you get your starship. One of the hooks this game has is the NPC crews you design, and you just can't fit an entire bridge crew inside a runabout. So you'll need to get out of it ASAP.

On the other hand, the best way to do a tutorial might be a holodeck simulation, where you're commanding a big ship, like a galaxy or sovereign class. That way you get a taste for whats in store later one, where as if you only played it a bit in the Runabout stage, you wouldn't think its quite as fun.

They could still have runabout missions though, where you have to choose a couple of crew members and go on a mission in your runabout while sending your ship somewhere else for some reason.

[weirdguy]

Hmm, I would say being able to try out a ship in the holodeck is a bad idea.

Unlocking a game's content is what drives MMO's players to keep moving forward. One of the things I disliked about City of Heroes was the lack of stuff to get, like new armor or weapons that you would get often in fantasy MMO's. That lack of unlockable content made the game seem like a grind, because the only unlocked content was new powers, which was one power ever other level.

Getting rewards motivates you to keep playing.

Being able to try all of the ships right away would make them feel less impressive when you do get them. You have already played the game, and it wouldn't feel shiny and new and give you that feeling you ust got something good.

However, the one exception might be when you fnnally do level up so you can move out of your current ship and into a new class. At that point I think it would be a good idea to let you test drive all the available ships to see which one you like best. That way you don't get stuck with something you find out later you didn't like.

As for how long to go to get out of a Runabout and into a real ship, I would say an hour. Maybe level 3 or so, judging by other MMO level up rates.

1. Runabout
2. Runabout with a roll bar weapon pod on top.
3. Small starship
ect.

[_Pax_]

I like the idea, but it probably should be for an even shorter time. Just like a basic tutorial then you get your starship. One of the hooks this game has is the NPC crews you design, and you just can't fit an entire bridge crew inside a runabout. So you'll need to get out of it ASAP.
Well, also there's no "levels" in STO, or so it has been said.

But, still using levels just to discuss timing of this; assuming the levelling speed were similar to that of Cryptics prior product, City of Heroes ... you'd get to level 5 in just two hours of play, even as a rank, raw newcomer who insists on solo'ing their way up.

We'll also presume that Runabouts are size zero, and not intended for normal use as one's "starship", past the first few "n00b" levels. I'll also discuss this from the Federation POV, 'cause it's easier.

But let's say you're a newly-comissioned Ensign; the "tutorial" takes you to level 2 in a Holodeck simulation; you get to try out some of the Size 2 ships - one of each class/type, for example - in a series of brief missions. This is entirely skippable for your second or subsequent character, mind. Let's say it takes you ... 20 minutes? At the end of the tutorial, you receive a promotion to Lieutenant J.G. (That's "Junior Grade", for the uninitiated), and get your first Bridge Officer ... an Ensign, who'll be your "Number One" for the rest of your career.

Bang, end of Tutorial. Now, for your Shakedown Cruise period: the low low low levels just post-tutorial, when you're still relatively "helpless" on your own. The period fantasy MMOs would have you hunting down Giant Rats and/or Rabbits by the tens and hundreds, 'cause anythign else would prove too dangerous for you.

SO ... at this point, you're assigned a Runabout, and sent off to Starbase #### for your permanent assignment. Of course, paperwork being what it is - even the electronic kind, and even in the 24th century - you arrive, and your assigned ship isn't there (for any number of citable reasons - having a random pool of reasons for the script to draw from would be VERY nice, here). So, the Starbase commander - ever loathe to let wet-behind-the-ears recent Academy graduates sit on their hands and waste time, sends you (and that Ensign, in the Runabout) out on a series of relatively simple missions within the local system. These bring you to level 3, and let you practise your piloting, scanning, and even weapons-use skills in the process.

At some point - preferably wile you're out away from the Starbase by a good distance, say, across the star system in a little-travelled area - your current, relatively mundane task is interrupted by a priority request from the starbase: intercept an unknown freighter, approaching on an unusual course. Maybe they're just newcomers to the local area, maybe they're smugglers ... the Starbase wants you to check them out. And here, I'd love to see the quest-generator be able to pluck out a whole HOST of possibilities as to what sort of situation you find yourself in.

Maybe it's a smuggler - and you have to figure this out, and "deal with it"; best if the reason for smuggling is simply "avoiding ultra-high taxes", not "carrying completely illegal cargo".

the Militant route would be to demand permission to board the ship and inspect their cargo (which is of course refused), then have a fight where you need to disable the engines and weapons, without blowing it up. For a "mere" Runabout, even a poorly-armed freighter can be presented as a reasonable challenge.
the Diplomatic route would be based on conversation cues and options, whereby you could possibly get the captain to admit what he's carrying, and agree to adhere to the law (maybe he's avoiding taxes because he needs the money for repairs - and you can offer to come aboard and help make them, gratis?)
the Science route would be based on scanning the ship, penetrating it's anti-sensor measures, and ascertaining what cargo is aboard ... then simply quoting The Book at the captain, and reminding him that while your Runabout may have been the most-convenient responder, other larger and more-capable starships CAN, and will, intervene if necessary ...


Or, maybe the ship is a Derelict. Or a relatively new species in the area. Or an automated probe from an unknown culture. Or a ship full of refugees. Or a ship of SLAVERS, who claim to be a ship fullof refugees. And so on, and so forth.

(Having as many scenarios as possible to randomly choose between, would keep this first, "important event in your Story" mission as fresh as possible for alt-inclined players. Making them multi-solution lets the player DECIDE how this opening chapter of his story unfolds ...)

At this point, the game interface should "fade to black", and the player can enjoy a cutscene of their character being promoted straight to full Lieutenant "for meritorious conduct", and even being told by the Admiral commanding that starbase that Starfleet has decided to give the player command of a full - if small and possibly older - starship to the player's character. The camera pans past the Admiral to the large windows behind him, and then closes in on a spacedock berth ...

... which becomes the interface for ship customisation, for the player's first Size 1 ship.

Meanwhile, they get their first full Bridge Crew - that Ensign, scripted to have been a friend at the Academy, is selected as your First Officer; plus you can pick a Doctor, an Engineer, and either a Science officer or Tactical officer (your #1 will fill the OTHER role, for now). The Doctor and #1 are Lieutenant, JG's; the rest are Ensigns.

Note, I'm presuming your bridge crew grows as you gain rank and skill; for NOW, the other duty stations on your bridge are either "doubled up" with existing Bridge Crew NPCs, or, are filled by (nameless?) enlisted personnel.

...

I think that structure helps start the process of writing a STORY about your ship, and your crew; it serves as a sort of prologue, explaining how you got command of a ship so (comparatively) swiftly, and setting you apart from the beginning as someone above the ordinary (NPC) starfleet officer.

[47Wasps]

I'd actually like to see them adopt the Delta Flyer design as the prolific utility small craft. It proved itself repeatedly in the Delta Quadrant and the Runabouts by 2409 will be a bit old.

The Delta Flyer design was used in some concept art by Perpetual when they were working on STO.
So it seems pretty likely Cryptic will adopt it as a class of starship

[dturne10]

Wooooo long post, _Pax_... but I loved your ideas. Your proposed scenario would be a GREAT way to spoonfeed the basic controls and options to new players. As fun as it would be the first time, I hope it would be skippable. Some people looooove alts, and it would probably be extremely tiresome the fourth or fifth time through =)

[matt4tay]

Runabout definately.

Anyone think about the Argo as a starter ship?

I wouldn't mind either.

[_Pax_]

Wooooo long post, _Pax_... but I loved your ideas. Your proposed scenario would be a GREAT way to spoonfeed the basic controls and options to new players. As fun as it would be the first time, I hope it would be skippable. Some people looooove alts, and it would probably be extremely tiresome the fourth or fifth time through =)

The true tutorial bit, sure. The "First Command" scenario, I'd hope not - but if you prefer, yeah, I guess so. But keeping it fresh is why I'd like the actual nature of the ship you're sent to intercept to be RANDOM, chosen from a hopefully-LONG list of possibilities.:)

[Stryklone]

One of the hooks this game has is the NPC crews you design, and you just can't fit an entire bridge crew inside a runabout. So you'll need to get out of it ASAP.

Why would the game would teach ship command without a NPC crew, since that is the way the game handles flight? Look for the game to find room for them regardless of the starter ship size.

Stryklone
========

[Awarkle]

well the runabout crew basically double up on certain functions however its large enough for,

Ops normally doing the job of scanning and comunications, helm handeling navigation and controls, engineering and i suspect basic medical.

its only 4 but it would be a start to your command crew, i wonder if thye are going to do crew like elite drops :D

Woot i got a spock drop :P

[DanSeale]

The Romulan shuttle was featured in DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight_(episode)).

I agree that a runabout would be a nice first step. It's big enough to handle a few officers, can defend itself (albeit minimally), has cargo space and is warp capable. Everything you need to get started.

Good on all points. I agree.

[JDHester2000]

I made a post a week back talking about this. My idea was to have the training missions for flight be in a shuttle / runabout, then as you finish you fly the shuttle / runabout to your first ship posting. You get to see your first ship as you fly through the ship yard. I thought this would be a memorable experience.

[_Pax_]

[...] you just can't fit an entire bridge crew inside a runabout.
Actually, a Runabout can operate with a crew of much more than just 1 or 2 people. Optimally, a crew of 6 is what you'd want: Helm (pilot), Navigator (copilot), Tactical, Engineering, Sensors/Comms, and Medic. Add some Mission Specialists and the crew could go as large as 10.

[47Wasps]

The reason I love the idea of runabouts as starter ships is because of the ships small size,which would allow the entire vessel to be mapped out.
Your first command might be the only one you could visit every inch of.
Take a Galaxy-class,its a large ship,and a player will only be able to visit a small portion of its interior.
But with a runabout,all the vessel is at your fingertips.

[Aerelleus]

i say give everyone oberths and watch the mayhem fly. itll make all the klingon players relive fantasys of the search for spock when the bird of prey blew up the USS Grissom. ah good times indeed. and as an added note itll make federation player a litlle more humble

[osena]

The reason I love the idea of runabouts as starter ships is because of the ships small size,which would allow the entire vessel to be mapped out.
Your first command might be the only one you could visit every inch of.
Take a Galaxy-class,its a large ship,and a player will only be able to visit a small portion of its interior.
But with a runabout,all the vessel is at your fingertips.

a runabout is not a ship its a shuttel there is big diffrence the stated we would start out whit our own ship i was thinking it would be something overworked and underpowered allmost ready for the scrap yard id don't like to idea of starting off whit runabout when there are tons of ships out there they made millions of like the miranda class and were are you geting that we won't be abel to go all around the ship we command? were are you geting this i have seen nothing on this what so ever?

[47Wasps]

a runabout is not a ship its a shuttel there is big diffrence the stated we would start out whit our own ship i was thinking it would be something overworked and underpowered allmost ready for the scrap yard id don't like to idea of starting off whit runabout when there are tons of ships out there they made millions of like the miranda class and were are you geting that we won't be abel to go all around the ship we command? were are you geting this i have seen nothing on this what so ever?

Each indivual runabout has a sepperate name,and registery.
In my mind at least,that qualifies them as being a starship,complete and unto themselves.
I like to start small,and as I progress in rank,work my way to a greater starship.

Cryptic hasn't released all the details of the interiors of starships.
But its unlikely every deck of a Galaxy-class will be available to visit,or any large vessel.
Because that would require each room to be mapped and designed for every starship.

[osena]

a shuttel is a shuttel and a ship is a ship and i can see your point of view but look at it like this whit if the starting mission has you takening over the command of a ship and those shuttels are part of the ship there stationed on the mother ship enterprise e hade like 15 diffrent kinds of shuttel crafth it makes no sense to command a lone shuttel when there ment to be part of a larger ship

[minago]

i would be fine with just a Danube class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Danube_class) runabout.

to the point, i would just want it as my main ship .:p

[Bamf]

Ir its on DS9...the one where they try to get the romulans to join in with the domninion war...."Conspiracy" i think


awesome episode. plain awesome.

[BreachAndClear]

I think it would be cool for the tutorial to be aboard a Constitution class (I know a lot of people love it) as part of a simulation at Starfleet. Only Federation players would go through this specific tutorial of course; Klingon players would have a different one. This would be the only time a player would be able to fly the Constitution class ship. Each player would do this individually before being dropped off into the world with other players; however, players that have already completed it once can choose to skip the tutorial for subsequent characters.

After this, your character will board an transport ship, maybe even an Oberth or Excelsior, and fly to a starbase where your new ship is docked. Along the way, the journey would be semi-cinematic, as the flag officer aboard the ship will be giving a motivational speech about how you are among the best and brightest in Starfleet, and you can see ships coming and going from the base through the viewscreen. When you get to the starbase you see your ship is a little dinky ship, like a runabout. The dramatic star trek opening tune plays (like in the STO trailer). Sort of tongue-in-cheek.

[osena]

I think it would be cool for the tutorial to be aboard a Constitution class (I know a lot of people love it) as part of a simulation at Starfleet. Only Federation players would go through this specific tutorial of course; Klingon players would have a different one. This would be the only time a player would be able to fly the Constitution class ship. Each player would do this individually before being dropped off into the world with other players; however, players that have already completed it once can choose to skip the tutorial for subsequent characters.

After this, your character will board an transport ship, maybe even an Oberth or Excelsior, and fly to a starbase where your new ship is docked. Along the way, the journey would be semi-cinematic, as the flag officer aboard the ship will be giving a motivational speech about how you are among the best and brightest in Starfleet, and you can see ships coming and going from the base through the viewscreen. When you get to the starbase you see your ship is a little dinky ship, like a runabout. The dramatic star trek opening tune plays (like in the STO trailer). Sort of tongue-in-cheek.

that was more along the lines of what i was thinking about

[Paulo999]

lol i think maybe the starter will be the fighter thing from ds9.. peregrine class i think... ;)

[Ardan_Blade]

A runabout sounds like a solid, if not slightly outdated option to me. Realistically, the Federation seems to have a lack of smaller ships that stay away from heavy combat, so I hope they add some solid ones in the game!

I also hope they keep the Sacagawea-Class, even though its not likely.

[47Wasps]

A runabout sounds like a solid, if not slightly outdated option to me. Realistically, the Federation seems to have a lack of smaller ships that stay away from heavy combat, so I hope they add some solid ones in the game!

I also hope they keep the Sacagawea-Class, even though its not likely.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on her.
The Sacagawea was a great design for a runabout.
I would love for my first command to be one of that class.
and at the very least,Cryptic seems to be incorporating most of Perpetuals designs into STO,so I think chances are we'll see her.

[cv_coco]

a shuttel is a shuttel and a ship is a ship and i can see your point of view but look at it like this whit if the starting mission has you takening over the command of a ship and those shuttels are part of the ship there stationed on the mother ship enterprise e hade like 15 diffrent kinds of shuttel crafth it makes no sense to command a lone shuttel when there ment to be part of a larger ship

A runabout (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Runabout)isn't the same as a shuttle. Star ships are usually equipped with shuttles, only the largest would sometimes have a runabout and/or captain's yacht aboard. Most are stationed at a starbase (like DS9).

[Fvillha]

I'd recommend the Ale Carrier-shuttle (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/rreclan/shot0007.jpg) (image is from EliteForce2), you'd be the talk of the parties, the cargo doubles as reserve fuel, and you're hardly ever with out a supply for yourself.

[jojobean]

I always thought of what would make a good starter ship for this game, and I think Runabouts would work for that job.

It would certainly make getting your next ship something special, as a runabout isn't really that impressive of a ship.

I have even seen a schematic for a Romulan Runabout, and it was fairly neat looking. Aparently it was also seen in a TV show somewhere, but I never watched DS9 or Voyager that much.

This is where I saw it, and it is listed under the "official ships only" section.

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/romulan/warpshuttle_h10.jpg

Anybody know where that one appears?

Makes total sense to start out in a shuttle class ships since your just beginning the game also they should be customizable to be a formidable opponent in groups against larger class ships, every ships should be able to match another ships with upgrades and a little tactics and skill and grouping.

[jojobean]

Tbh , I would rather have the option of keep using my runabout or any other shuttle class if I choose to and be as effective as a starship, as I stated before when flying shuttles in groups provides tactics and more targets for the larger ship(s) to try and hit since they are the more manuverable , only drawback is damage is less, but say if I had a small fleet of shuttles attacking a ship, concentrating fire on critical areas of the starship , would prove a tactical advantage. Upgrades to these shuttles are a must for them to compete and be effective.

[ivan50265]

A runabout type ship is an excellent choice for a beginning ship I also believe I remember Jack saying early missions take place in the solar system of your homeworld. In that case a runabout would make perfect sense.

[1MGSIX]

I just hope they have Peregrine Fighters. Would really be fun to RP a fighter Squadron with your friends.

[_Pax_]

a runabout is not a ship its a shuttel [...]
You're wrong.

Shuttlecraft always bear the registry number of their "parent" ship or base. For example, every shuttlecraft on the U.S.S. Enterprise E bears the registry number NCC 1701-E-?, where the ? is replaced with a number ... i.e., "shuttlecraft eleven" of the Enterprise-E bears the registry NCC 1701-E-11.

However, Runabouts get their OWN registry numbers. They ARE "parent ships", in that sense. For example, in the Danube class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Danube_class), some of the runabouts have been:

USS Ganges (NCC-72454)
USS Mekong (NCC-72617)
USS Rio Grande (NCC-72452)
USS Rubicon (NCC-72936)
USS Shenandoah (NCC-73024)

If any of these had been shuttlecraft, they woudl all have had a "-1", or "-5", or similar extra piece in their registry numbers. Since none of them do, then obviously, none of them were Shuttlecraft.

Furthermore, Shuttlecraft names do not have "U.S.S." added to the front. It is always, for example, "the shuttlecraft Copernicus". That "U.S.S." designation is reserved for full Starships.

And every single Runabout has been named "U.S.S. ______" (see list, above). They ARE Starships ... just very, very, very small ones.

[...] they made millions of like the miranda class [...]
Source ...?

[osena]

You're wrong.

Shuttlecraft always bear the registry number of their "parent" ship or base. For example, every shuttlecraft on the U.S.S. Enterprise E bears the registry number NCC 1701-E-?, where the ? is replaced with a number ... i.e., "shuttlecraft eleven" of the Enterprise-E bears the registry NCC 1701-E-11.

However, Runabouts get their OWN registry numbers. They ARE "parent ships", in that sense. For example, in the Danube class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Danube_class), some of the runabouts have been:

USS Ganges (NCC-72454)
USS Mekong (NCC-72617)
USS Rio Grande (NCC-72452)
USS Rubicon (NCC-72936)
USS Shenandoah (NCC-73024)

If any of these had been shuttlecraft, they woudl all have had a "-1", or "-5", or similar extra piece in their registry numbers. Since none of them do, then obviously, none of them were Shuttlecraft.

Furthermore, Shuttlecraft names do not have "U.S.S." added to the front. It is always, for example, "the shuttlecraft Copernicus". That "U.S.S." designation is reserved for full Starships.

And every single Runabout has been named "U.S.S. ______" (see list, above). They ARE Starships ... just very, very, very small ones.


Source ...?
there have been countless miranda class star ships made over the years http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class http://www.ditl.org/ and if you like at the new screen shot thre is miranda class sporting that new NX-91001 registry so by that there still being made and captains are still commanding them so my point is vild

[weirdguy]

I agree with correcting that misconception that runabouts are just shuttles.

They have more in common with everyones favorite pirate ship, the Millenium Falcon than they do with shuttles. They're about the same size as well.

Think of it this way. Use the age of sail as a guide. A shuttlecraft is a rowboat. You use it to get from your ship to the land. That is it (and most rowboats in that day could rig sails so you don't have to always row, and shuttles have a small warp drive).

A Runabout is more like a 30 foot yacht. It isnt' going to be used for much, but they're not short ranged craft. They're fully capable of traveling through space on their own.

I also suggest this simply because I think a guy straight out of the academy isn't going to be given command of a real ship. He has to make a name for himself somehow, though.

And this screenshot is another one I love. Looks like the ship has room for 8 people sleeping in bunk beds. More if they "hot rack" like a submarine.

http://wiki.maquis.com/w/Image:Science_Runabout2.jpg
http://wiki.maquis.com/images/a/a9/Danube-cutaway-a.jpg
http://wiki.maquis.com/images/5/5d/Danube-cockpit.jpg

[Sealance]

i'm sure theres plenty of mirandas and constitutions in the starship graveyard, waiting to be refurbished ;)

[Tranchera]

I hope we do start out in runabouts, because I think Mirandas or Novas are too high up the chain to be starter ships.

They're also too cool to see 50,000 newbies flying in on the first day.

[Itsbeenalongroad]

Tbh , I would rather have the option of keep using my runabout or any other shuttle class if I choose to and be as effective as a starship, as I stated before when flying shuttles in groups provides tactics and more targets for the larger ship(s) to try and hit since they are the more manuverable , only drawback is damage is less, but say if I had a small fleet of shuttles attacking a ship, concentrating fire on critical areas of the starship , would prove a tactical advantage. Upgrades to these shuttles are a must for them to compete and be effective.

I agree a player should be able to play however they want, and this game won't be completely centered on combat. However, I do not think a runabout, no matter how upgraded, should be a substitute for a full blown ship with a large crew. The defiant was made to be a fast nimble attack ship. Let's leave it in that role. I don't want to see 20+ man fleets of starter ships everywhere that can take out anything they want just to make it fun. A galaxy class should be able to like 5 hit a runabout, a soveriegn should be able to almost 2 hit it (just example numbers). A defiant should have a bit harder time but still..........it's a runabout. Fast small ships should be fun to operate but should be a niche ship like they we're designed to be. They we're never meant to replace any larger ship, just be a supliment in a fleet, or fill a specific role.

[Tranchera]

Why would you attack in a group of 20 runabouts when you could use 20 big ships? :/

[Itsbeenalongroad]

Why would you attack in a group of 20 runabouts when you could use 20 big ships? :/
That's what I'm talking about. I don't want runabouts or a shuttle for that matter, to be able to be upgraded to be your ship throughout the game like he was talking about.

And people would use 20 runabouts (if theyre the starter ship) if they were comparable to other ships since they are the starter ship. You wouldn't have to do anything to get it. Gold farmers do the same thing in EvE with the beggining ships. You can fit a pretty decent miner set on them so they just get dozens of trials with one real account. The trials all run the beggining ships on one roid while the one real account uses a hauler (restricted from trials) to haul all the ore in. That's not the combat side of things but just an example of what can happen when starter ships can be upgraded to a point where they can be comparable to higher end content in groups.

[weirdguy]

I think using EVE Online as a base line for how things in STO will work is going to cause trouble. You probably should hold off on that because we don't know how the gameplay works here. A fear of a Runabout "Zerg rush" is probably permature, don't you think?

We're probably not going to be doing a lot of asteroid mining for example. We're Starfleet officers and Klingon warriors, not miners.

[Itsbeenalongroad]

Haha I know, but an MMO is an MMO, and people are people. If you make the starter/lower tier ships comparable to the higher ships no one will get the larger ships, there will be no need. Just join a group of 15+ runabouts and your fine. Like I said, I like the approach they stated they are taking, make each ship upgradeable to a point. A top tier 1 just shouldn't be able to match a top tier 2 when both are or aren't tricked out.

[osena]

Haha I know, but an MMO is an MMO, and people are people. If you make the starter/lower tier ships comparable to the higher ships no one will get the larger ships, there will be no need. Just join a group of 15+ runabouts and your fine. Like I said, I like the approach they stated they are taking, make each ship upgradeable to a point. A top tier 1 just shouldn't be able to match a top tier 2 when both are or aren't tricked out.

i think a runabout should only be used for training missions am more in favor a fedaration mission scout ship like deta hade in that movie it was more a fighter then any thing els but like you said a group of runnabouts would make the need for the larger ships not in demand lol its a no win any way you go lol

[TheMasterpiece]

Id rather start off with a small ship than a run about. Obviously a small scout vessel has a small crew and is a good way to start, while still giving you an official starship.

[osena]

I hope we do start out in runabouts, because I think Mirandas or Novas are too high up the chain to be starter ships.

They're also too cool to see 50,000 newbies flying in on the first day.

why are the too high up many ensings are asinged too those ships by 2409 miranda class allready have more then a foot in scrap yard by 2370 how low end would the be by 2409?

[osena]

Id rather start off with a small ship than a run about. Obviously a small scout vessel has a small crew and is a good way to start, while still giving you an official starship.

but am not sure if that ship deta hade was big enof for a small crew i know deta was more then abel to fly it by him self plus he i asume he can link up whit the scout ships systeam am not much of trek fan my self i just have seen the tos and all the movies so far

[_Pax_]

there have been countless miranda class star ships made over the years http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miranda_class
"Many", even many thousands, does not equate to millions. I on't think Starfleet has made "millions" of any starship class.

Look at the Battle of Wolf359. That was EVERY starfleet ship that could get there, even at MAXIMUM warp - right in theheart of the Federation. And it wasn't even thousands of ships - despite being dozens of different classes.

http://www.ditl.org/
Even this link does not support the idea that millions of ships within the one class, Miranda, were ever manufactured. It doesn't even support the idea that the whole of Starfleet comprised ONE million ships, among ALL ship classes.

[...] and if you like at the new screen shot thre is miranda class sporting that new NX-91001 registry [...]
That is a gross error, then. A given NCC Registry Number is only ever, EVER, held by a SINGLE starship. The ship holding the NX 91001 registry number has been declared to be the Sovereign-Refit class ship seen in earlier screenshots, and given it's own article to boot.

[...] so by that there still being made and captains are still commanding them so my point is vild
No, it's not. There are not nor never were millions of ANY single class of ship in Starfleet.

[osena]

"Many", even many thousands, does not equate to millions. I on't think Starfleet has made "millions" of any starship class.

Look at the Battle of Wolf359. That was EVERY starfleet ship that could get there, even at MAXIMUM warp - right in theheart of the Federation. And it wasn't even thousands of ships - despite being dozens of different classes.


Even this link does not support the idea that millions of ships within the one class, Miranda, were ever manufactured. It doesn't even support the idea that the whole of Starfleet comprised ONE million ships, among ALL ship classes.


That is a gross error, then. A given NCC Registry Number is only ever, EVER, held by a SINGLE starship. The ship holding the NX 91001 registry number has been declared to be the Sovereign-Refit class ship seen in earlier screenshots, and given it's own article to boot.


No, it's not. There are not nor never were millions of ANY single class of ship in Starfleet.


ok i used the million thing as point but the have made alot of them in if that screen shot holds any mert and in that contest you can see a miranda class above that planet how are we to know that there not still makeing this class desing alone is vary classical and may not take alot of stuff to make so there still makeing them in 2409 or i could be wrong and that NX-91001 registry could be some kind of combat package for all we know and there is noting that states that NX-91001 is refit of a sovereing show me were you geting this at? it looks like a new ship in its own right to me

[SiskoBell]

I've been looking at Memory Alpha and was thinking that perhaps the runabout isn't the only solution for a starter ship. While I agree that even low level classes like the Miranda or Nova might be inappropriate, I still think the runabout is less a "ship" than a glorified shuttle.

Instead, how about using other small vessels such as the Raven Class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Raven_type) or Sydney Class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Sydney_class). The Raven class, especially, showed considerable range and independent capabilities, much more like a starship than a shuttle. Cryptic says we'll pilot starter ships, the Raven seems more like what they suggest.

In either case, canon offers more choices than just runabouts and Mirandas.

[weirdguy]

Dude, we're talking about only using it for the tutorial and maybe a level or two. They'll be the "rusty sword" of this game. You have it, but want a real sword as soon as you can lay hands on one.

Then you get a ship like a USS Nova or a Bird of Prey.

[_Pax_]

That Raven Class ship would indeed be a nice choice for the post-Tutorial/Starter perior. Picture one of those being what you're assigned after the ship-intercept in my scenario, outlined above.

[Dahakra]

I'd recommend the Ale Carrier-shuttle (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/rreclan/shot0007.jpg) (image is from EliteForce2), you'd be the talk of the parties, the cargo doubles as reserve fuel, and you're hardly ever with out a supply for yourself.

Does it have its own mobile brewery on-board? If so, then I second this motion!! :D

You're wrong.

Shuttlecraft always bear the registry number of their "parent" ship or base. For example, every shuttlecraft on the U.S.S. Enterprise E bears the registry number NCC 1701-E-?, where the ? is replaced with a number ... i.e., "shuttlecraft eleven" of the Enterprise-E bears the registry NCC 1701-E-11.

However, Runabouts get their OWN registry numbers. They ARE "parent ships", in that sense. For example, in the Danube class (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Danube_class), some of the runabouts have been:

USS Ganges (NCC-72454)
USS Mekong (NCC-72617)
USS Rio Grande (NCC-72452)
USS Rubicon (NCC-72936)
USS Shenandoah (NCC-73024)

If any of these had been shuttlecraft, they woudl all have had a "-1", or "-5", or similar extra piece in their registry numbers. Since none of them do, then obviously, none of them were Shuttlecraft.

Furthermore, Shuttlecraft names do not have "U.S.S." added to the front. It is always, for example, "the shuttlecraft Copernicus". That "U.S.S." designation is reserved for full Starships.

And every single Runabout has been named "U.S.S. ______" (see list, above). They ARE Starships ... just very, very, very small ones.


Source ...?

Not that I don't agree with you, I consider Runabouts Ships and not Shuttles, however I'd like to point out that I recall episodes of TNG where the shuttlecraft where in fact named individually.

- Dahakra

[Aerelleus]

i still think people will start out with the oberth class. there small and limited to just defensive weapons definatly a good starter ship if they even exisist still

[osena]

i still think people will start out with the oberth class. there small and limited to just defensive weapons definatly a good starter ship if they even exisist still

i was hopeing for a saber class my self there the succer to the oberth class

[BreachAndClear]

Who's to say there's only one starter ship? The Nova seems more appropriate as a mid tier science vessel, closer to the Intrepid in performance than to something like a Miranda. The Oberth is certainly a valid choice for a starter/lower tier science vessel. Perhaps the Constellation will make an early cruiser, etc. The Klingon ships are a bit more easier to predict in terms of which canonical ships are more advanced than others, but there surely will have to be a lot more original Cryptic designs for the Klingon Empire than for the Federation.

I still think the Constitution class would make a perfect ship for a Federation tutorial, and perhaps a D-7 for the klingons. The Constitution is extremely old, and the D-7 was replaced by the K't'inga, so it would be an appropriate way of allowing players to "captain" one of these older vessels in a simulation.

[_Pax_]

Not that I don't agree with you, I consider Runabouts Ships and not Shuttles, however I'd like to point out that I recall episodes of TNG where the shuttlecraft where in fact named individually.

- Dahakra

Yes, shuttlecraft can be named individually - but never with the prefix U.S.S., was my point.

[Dahakra]

Yes, shuttlecraft can be named individually - but never with the prefix U.S.S., was my point.

True that and point well taken.

- Dahakra

[osena]

Who's to say there's only one starter ship? The Nova seems more appropriate as a mid tier science vessel, closer to the Intrepid in performance than to something like a Miranda. The Oberth is certainly a valid choice for a starter/lower tier science vessel. Perhaps the Constellation will make an early cruiser, etc. The Klingon ships are a bit more easier to predict in terms of which canonical ships are more advanced than others, but there surely will have to be a lot more original Cryptic designs for the Klingon Empire than for the Federation.

I still think the Constitution class would make a perfect ship for a Federation tutorial, and perhaps a D-7 for the klingons. The Constitution is extremely old, and the D-7 was replaced by the K't'inga, so it would be an appropriate way of allowing players to "captain" one of these older vessels in a simulation.

i don't want a oberth as starter ship cos the have a auto engineer systeam on abord am wanting something that i could work on as engineer a Constellation might make fine frist posting for a engineer that is like the stargazer right not the enterprise ncc 1701 typ right?

[Arocks]

I think if you are federation you should start with the 5 crew ship.

[osena]

I think if you are federation you should start with the 5 crew ship.

well the pod cast said light curiser/frigate i would asume a frigate would be a startership a lightcriuser in the US navy is pretty big and frigate is dinky

a light curiser/command ship is like 20 tonns fully loaded

a Frigate is like 5 tons fully loaded

[IG_Slayer]

I'd rather be in a frigate than a shuttle craft type ship to start out! :D

[Sinclair]

I'm for starting in something bigger than a runabout. A small scout-class starship would be nicer than a runabout. Runabouts just seem too unheroic of a starting point. I think the game needs a bigger grabber at the start than being placed in what amounts to a big shuttle craft. That's my take in terms of fun factor.

[apexearth]

A choosing of a variety of similar sized ships would be nice. I don't want to be stuck with only one choice. :)