Lessons learned from SWG and WoW

[JDiesel17]

I am sure that some of these topics have been touched on in earlier threads but I just wanted to share some of the hopes / fears that I have for STO based on my earlier MMO experiences.

Skill Trees
This is one that I think SWG had right (before the CU and NGE stuff). There were so many options that it was easy to create a unique character to fit your play style. Now I don't expect STO to have 32 professions to choose from, but a healthy variety (of balanced and viable, not neglected like early Smugglers in SWG) of professions with various skills to specialize in would be my dream set up. Even members of the same profession could be vastly different. Jedi could be beefed up tanks or stealthy scouts with cloak. Doctors could be uber healers or viable in combat by taking some Rifleman skills paired up with their Medical skills. After the NGE, where everyone progressed in a linear level fashion and acquired the same skills was a real bummer.

WoW did ok with having 3 variations of each class but they still feel a bit too constricted to me. Note I haven't played WoW in about a year so this may be out of date. You could be a Fire/Ice/or Arcane mage, but the one you picked restricted your ability. Fire = PVP, Ice = PVE. Mixing skills was not a very viable option.

Crafting and Resource Mining
This one is big for me and I have never even played a crafter. SWG got this one right early on. Crafting was an art form. Sure anyone could get into crafting and make some credits by producing standard grenades and such that were used up on a regular basis. But there was also the ability to be an EPIC crafter if you put the time and effort into it. Resources with varying stats would spawn and despawn on a regular basis. Experimentation produced varying results. And when everything came together just right it resulted in that perfect weapon with just a bit faster Cooldown or just a hair more damage. Then a serious player with some credits to burn could invest in a fine weapon (this was where I came in on occasion) and feel like you had something special.

Also resource mining in SWG was a fun little distraction that lead to a great way to make credits. Surveying for resources and setting up and maintaining harvesters once a week could be a fun meta game / distraction from the normal grind. Space mining was even more active and fun as you blasted chunks off of asteroids and collected them while being harassed by pirates.

Wow crafting lead to a standard item that always had the same stats so there was no real reward to it in my view (as I said before though I never played a crafter).

Loot
Ahh the shiny, pretty stuff that we are all here for (not all of us, but a lot). SWG here, I think, missed the mark. Most of the best loot in SWG was just eye candy. Mando armor, Jet Packs, even rare color crystals (Lava Crystal) had no statistical advantage. These items were the most credit / time / resource intensive in the game and at the end of the day they were just wearable trophies. If I put all that work into something I want it to provide some useful bonuses in PvE or PvP. Note I am not asking for an “I win” button, just something that rewards me in the game, whether a cool ability, a little extra damage or whatever. Visual rewards are not all bad. One or two eye candy loots (a special deflector dish or captains yacht) is great, just not every high end item.

WoW is closer to a good system with its Tiers of armor that certainly bestow you with more power. However the requirement of 25 man teams to get a chance at one piece of armor dropping for you is a bit to intense in my opinion. 10 man groups are about the limit that a pick up group can manage and if that was the max group size required for a quest that would be awesome.

I am encouraged on this front by the news that there will be some starships that will require fleet owned shipyards. This kind of collaboration if implemented correctly could be the sweet spot for end game loot.

At the risk of running a post that is too long to be readable (too late?) I will end here for now. I welcome any thoughts from people who have or have not played the games mentioned above. Thanks for your time!

[Stryklone]

There are several lessons STO should learn from SWG. One is get the general look done - that looks like it will be done. It's also important that the gameplay should be along the general lines and general feel of the source material while still being a game.

More important is to not rush out a bug-riddled game. Most important of all is to be aware that it's better to not give something in the first place than to give it and then have to take it away.

Beyond that, I always found it funny in SWG that I could be standing in a river surveying for water and not find any.

Stryklone
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[jagerbolt]

I'd be thrilled if STO had an in-depth crafting system much like SWG did. Since they said that Fleets could create larger ships I am going to guess that ship building will be included in some form or another. Now I've played a lot of MMOs to various extents but I was never a hardcore crafter. But for some reason the thought of designing and building my own ships which I can then command is just awesome.

[Skelly]

Crafting was a nice in SWG, but the economy was horrible. Inflation hit and everything became to expensive for casual player. Loot drops IMO are just a bad idea. PvP and PvE should be balanced Equipment, but perked by learned skills. So to stock Sovey's going at it are equally matched but the Captain and his/her crew turn the tide. Now ship upgrades should be trading off one thing to gain another. Ie. If I increase the damage of my disrupters then I take power away from my sheilds. If i upgrade my shields, I draw from my engines. These upgrades should be from exploration, not killing something and getting a random drop. That creates loot farming, and loot farmers create ebay auctions, which spawn more complaints about how people buy there high level characters and gear.

I really liked SWG at first, I could get lost in that world as everything was new to everyone. I hope to get lost in STO the same way.

[jojobean]

SWG was great at first and catered to the adult gamers after the NGE it tried to cater to the 'Target Audience' which was the WOW generation and it failed hard, plus they ruined the game by dumbing it down and making Jedi a starter which killed the game in my opinion, and as of now the last remnants of the SWG population 70% of them are Jedi in a era where Jedi were supposed to be extinct and in hiding. I hope Cryptic doesn't drop the ball and make it too casual or WOW noob friendly or even try to emulate WOW game mechancis otherwise this game will be doomed like AOC, and WAR.

[eNDIE]

SWG was great at first and catered to the adult gamers after the NGE it tried to cater to the 'Target Audience' which was the WOW generation and it failed hard, plus they ruined the game by dumbing it down and making Jedi a starter which killed the game in my opinion, and as of now the last remnants of the SWG population 70% of them are Jedi in a era where Jedi were supposed to be extinct and in hiding. I hope Cryptic doesn't drop the ball and make it too casual or WOW noob friendly or even try to emulate WOW game mechancis otherwise this game will be doomed like AOC, and WAR.

war doomed?:)

[jojobean]

Crafting was a nice in SWG, but the economy was horrible. Inflation hit and everything became to expensive for casual player. Loot drops IMO are just a bad idea. PvP and PvE should be balanced Equipment, but perked by learned skills. So to stock Sovey's going at it are equally matched but the Captain and his/her crew turn the tide. Now ship upgrades should be trading off one thing to gain another. Ie. If I increase the damage of my disrupters then I take power away from my sheilds. If i upgrade my shields, I draw from my engines. These upgrades should be from exploration, not killing something and getting a random drop. That creates loot farming, and loot farmers create ebay auctions, which spawn more complaints about how people buy there high level characters and gear.

I really liked SWG at first, I could get lost in that world as everything was new to everyone. I hope to get lost in STO the same way.

I have to agree with you on this Skelly, loot drops in this game would be a bad idea, crafting tech, or perhaps exploration of planets could uncover ancient tech or new tech received from alien species, loot drops however are a bad thing, perhaps in ship battles there could be a type of skill to salvage ships for materials kinda of like in EVE Online, everything should be player crafted or discovered or rewarded by diplomatic achievement for new tech.