Will STO have Spys/Espionage/Sabotage mission

[Fvillha]

(I would like a civil discussion here, and if possible a Dev. input)

Will Cryptic Studio allow for possible (Spying/Espionage/Sabotage) missions and/or between faction activities. This was brought up in a lengthy discussion in our Imperial Romulan Fleet thread (over 8 pages of comments, and a bit heated). IMO all factions have their version of a spy/Intel network, what-ever they prefer to call themselves(Tal Shiar, Obsidian Order, Section 31, 007), and after the discussion I feel we all need some insight from Cryptic on what may be expected in game for such activities, if there’s even consideration for it. Part of the discussion involved the concerns about how much of this would be consider cheating versus Role Playing or just actions expected from a Faction defending itself by getting to know their enemy. Guess the idea of covert operations into an enemy’s fleet with an alt player (agent/operative/spy...cough cheater) shouldn’t be allowed, but we recognize this would be hard to control in most MMOs, and vary for the type of server player are on.

I’ve seen in other MMO’s ways for players of one faction to betray to another faction, in which they had a series of quest/mission to complete to gain the faction their betraying to. I can see something similar being allowed in STO. Maybe a mission in the Neutral Zone (pick your location), to allow them to gain the new faction along with a set of known penalties for the faction swap, with maybe an option for a medical treatment to allow them to blend in (alter their appearance), as discussed in the thread Medically enhanced spying... (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=4530&highlight=Medically+enhanced+spying)

I can also see some ideas from the Agency Inc. (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/theagency/index.html) game being possible, if not at the start, maybe some update/expansion.

[jagerbolt]

This would be awesome. Some great Trek episodes happened when they were on espionage (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!) so I hope that they would have at least one mission.

[marscentral]

I personally think the addition of an Intelligence Officer class would be perfect for a Romulan (or Romulan/Cardassian) expansion. I think that Klingons and Starfleet should get them too, we know they do that sort of thing, but the Romulans should have more options at it, more dedicated to it.

[eNDIE]

were there is war there is spies so it should be included:)

[nicah64]

I would like to see a feature like this implemented if possible. The gathering of information about the enemy and conducting black ops in the 25th century greatly appeals. :)

[AlienTwo]

The problem/difference with what is being discussed here and what was discussed on the IRF thread is this;

Here you are talking about an ordered (in fact allowed by game mechanism)espionage class/mission set. On your thread the discussion was about human beings behind their computers lying about themselves and joining opposition guilds for the purpose of gaining information from the victim fleet.

Your suggestion is cool and dangerous in a sexy way. What that fool in your fleet was partaking in and condoning was purposefully deceiving people on planet earth who have trusted this person and accepted them into their real life online community/family. Donatrius forgot that there are real people with real feelings who play this game, many of whom are striving to craft relationships with their comrades.

Yes there is some role play, but there is also time when pretenses are to be dropped. I fully support and agree with your suggestion, and possibly it will help quell people's desire for that fast intelligence lifestyle. I do not however condone the later form. This is cold and unacceptable behavior anywhere. The only reason real life governments are able to justify and get away with this type of behavior is due to the fact real lives (counted in the millions and in some cases, the billions)are at stake.

Anyone who is involved with this community, this far in advance of the release of the game, is surely here at least for some form of socialization (I would have to say that goes triple for anyone wanting to join a Romulan fleet as the waiting will be even longer), and to prey upon those desires is just plain wrong.

[Donatrius]

The problem/difference with what is being discussed here and what was discussed on the IRF thread is this;

Here you are talking about an ordered (in fact allowed by game mechanism)espionage class/mission set. On your thread the discussion was about human beings behind their computers lying about themselves and joining opposition guilds for the purpose of gaining information from the victim fleet.

Your suggestion is cool and dangerous in a sexy way. What that fool in your fleet was partaking in and condoning was purposefully deceiving people on planet earth who have trusted this person and accepted them into their real life online community/family. Donatrius forgot that there are real people with real feelings who play this game, many of whom are striving to craft relationships with their comrades.

Yes there is some role play, but there is also time when pretenses are to be dropped. I fully support and agree with your suggestion, and possibly it will help quell people's desire for that fast intelligence lifestyle. I do not however condone the later form. This is cold and unacceptable behavior anywhere. The only reason real life governments are able to justify and get away with this type of behavior is due to the fact real lives (counted in the millions and in some cases, the billions)are at stake.

Anyone who is involved with this community, this far in advance of the release of the game, is surely here at least for some form of socialization (I would have to say that goes triple for anyone wanting to join a Romulan fleet as the waiting will be even longer), and to prey upon those desires is just plain wrong.

Firstly since everyone else is doing it these days ive flagged your post as abusive directly at myself calling me a fool etc etc....

in our thread the Discussion was so confused and intermixed between real life aspects and role playing/gaming aspects its now difficult to say for definate whether the topic of discussion was specifically about real life people sitting behind their computers etc etc....

Here you go bringing that discussion here where it wasnt needed a poor attempt at bringing back your own honour i feel considering you have no basis or right to talk about such things since the info from the BoK forums prooves you used similar techniques to spy on the BoK which makes you a complete hypocrite.

You as a member (At the time) of 2nd fleet used your possition to create a fake character and infiltrate BoK and then you lost your nerve and admitted to them and betrayed your fleet to them.....

i dont forget that there are real people playing the game with real feelings at all and i understand that people want to forge relationships and friendships and trust with eachother in the fleet, however what would be the point of playing a game where real feelings werent involved at a certain level, how can i for example betray someone who cannot feel the emotion of betrayal.... there for i feel perfectly justified in any actions i may or might have partook in to create a scenario where members of a fleet may feel betrayed and upset about being betrayed, it isnt my fault that such people involved in previous discussions have difficulty getting up and walking away from the computer screen and forgetting about it, when ive had a bad gaming experience online and i get up and go out with friends i am never in a bad mood or angry about having a bad gaming experience because i know how to seperate those aspects of my life.....

your last two paragraphs i think its a joke you even thought to write them at all because you dont condone the actions rofl come on you yourself performed those actions against another fleet therefor you cannot come accross all high and mighty now....

and now your even referencing a online computer game to governments and world politics are you mad i ask because this is a computer game in a fantasy world and as such has nothing to do with real world politics, and as for the fact were here so early on, i am here to socialise, i am also here to have fun while socialising whilst building up the pretence of my character, many on the forum now know my character to be a dangerous individual skilled in espionage and sabotage with devious and intelligent tactics at my disposal, and as such they will avoid me ingame which gives me an edge, people fear me now in context to the game (of course it would be absurd to fear me in real life lol - another example of detatched emotion)

This is all i have to say in reply to you and the ONLY reason i am replying to you directly is because you mentioned my name i would like this thread to continue as a polite discussion without decending into arguements and flames over whos opinions are correct regarding the past 2 days drama.

On topic specific:

I agree with Fvillha entirely and also like to add my own aspect to this which is invading fleets outside of the game aswell as inside the game which i personally feel is fine to do as must many others who have partook in such activities so far...

Thanks

[Fvillha]

(sorry for the repeat post, but felt it will give up to romulans at heart).
Having Romulan like player in game at the start I feel is a possibility, even if the full Empire isn't there as a true Faction. With some imagination, creativity and patience there's always alternate possibilities. As my new Avatar shows one of them.
;)

[AlienTwo]

I explained in the letter you stole from BoK my reasons for the cessation of my actions. Your entire rambling first half of the post is countered by that letter. I will ask you to read what you have stolen. For the benefit of everyone who doesn't want to wade through the list of posts to get to the stolen material I will simplify: I am new to these games, I thought that is how they are played. As I learned by reading and participating in BoK culture, I was wrong. I stopped my actions then, and now have a new perspective on it. Call it hypocrisy if you want, but people are allowed to change and learn from their past actions and mistakes as I did, and god knows, I hope you can.

For you to claim you didn't know the difference between whether or not you were role playing is simply asinine, as people stepped "out of character" and requested you do the same. It's really that simple, Donatrius. You needed only take a moment to consider the heat of the situation and the way in which people were responding to you. You were being a troll in other forums, just trying to pick fights and people didn't want to take it. Surprise surprise.

I fully back what I said throughout the entire encounter, and what I said today. If you don't feel that last paragraph was true, then please enlighten us all as to what brings you to the community so far in advance of the game, and even farther in advance of your chosen race/faction being a playable one. I hope that it isn't simply so you can act as deplorably as you want and have the ability to blame the mis-actions on your "role playing as a Romulan", but I fear that is the entire story.

I'm surprised you reported me, as it isn't very Romulan to run to authority as soon as you felt attacked... so I assume you are human today. Things get convoluted when you have the trouble you admitted to telling the difference between role play and real life. I suggest you keep a mirror close at hand always to remind yourself where you are living and who you really are.

[Donatrius]

I explained in the letter you stole from BoK my reasons for the cessation of my actions. Your entire rambling first half of the post is countered by that letter. I will ask you to read what you have stolen. For the benefit of everyone who doesn't want to wade through the list of posts to get to the stolen material I will simplify: I am new to these games, I thought that is how they are played. As I learned by reading and participating in BoK culture, I was wrong. I stopped my actions then, and now have a new perspective on it. Call it hypocrisy if you want, but people are allowed to change and learn from their past actions and mistakes as I did, and god knows, I hope you can.

For you to claim you didn't know the difference between whether or not you were role playing is simply asinine, as people stepped "out of character" and requested you do the same. It's really that simple, Donatrius. You needed only take a moment to consider the heat of the situation and the way in which people were responding to you. You were being a troll in other forums, just trying to pick fights and people didn't want to take it. Surprise surprise.

I fully back what I said throughout the entire encounter, and what I said today. If you don't feel that last paragraph was true, then please enlighten us all as to what brings you to the community so far in advance of the game, and even farther in advance of your chosen race/faction being a playable one. I hope that it isn't simply so you can act as deplorably as you want and have the ability to blame the mis-actions on your "role playing as a Romulan", but I fear that is the entire story.

I'm surprised you reported me, as it isn't very Romulan to run to authority as soon as you felt attacked... so I assume you are human today. Things get convoluted when you have the trouble you admitted to telling the difference between role play and real life. I suggest you keep a mirror close at hand always to remind yourself where you are living and who you really are.

You need your eyes testing if you concluded from my post that i cant differentiate between role play and real life.... people did not request me to step out of character and i will not do so the only reason i am replying to this in a semi realistic fashion is because other people are forcabley bringing their real lives into it for no reason at all apart from to justify themselves...

i did read what other people stole from the bok forums (accusing me aswell now are we?) and your letter does not counter anything i have said it more or less prooves what i have said to be true, as i described it perfectly (regardless of how new you are to online games or not) you lost your nerve and betrayed one fleet in preference for the one u were spying on because u felt you liked them better, this is still extremely hypocritical of you. people are allowed to change but just because you change dont expect everyone else to change to suit you and your views on things, i wonder just who the hell you think you are lol...

my reasons for being here are my own, and i dont need to share them with none romulans....

i will continue to behave as i always have done whether you see that as acting deplorably and nastily thats your business not myne just dont complain to me about it i have the right to behave the way i want to aslong as it is within the rules of the forum and i dont break those rules, i am not a forum troll lol go look up the definitions on google and tell me exactly how they fit into myself, ive already gone over this with hagon and prooved him wrong....

and i didnt report you i lied which is very romulan like if you ask me, and your assumption is meaningless how can i answer your repeatedly idiotic posts and answers to my every reply whilest staying in character or persona you must be mad and have some severe problems, i know perfectly well who i am in real life, what you people seem to have trouble accepting is who i am whilest on the STO Forums and who i will be while playing STO

all i have to say on this, if you want to reply do it in a pm which i hope will be much better than the last one i recieved when my tactics successfully caused disruption between you and 2nd fleet.

Stay on topic or i will be taking action in reporting you all to moderators because ive had enough of people posting against us because we choose to act like romulans and there is NOTHING and i repeat NOTHING wrong with that at all, its you people who keep bringing dilemas into this by bringing in issues which need not be involved in such things.

a final word, you cannot have it both ways, either stay clear of us and accept the fact we choose to play and behave like romulans pre game release or join in and have fun instead of getting all upset about it.

Now back on topic please.

[AlienTwo]

in our thread the Discussion was so confused and intermixed between real life aspects and role playing/gaming aspects its now difficult to say for definate whether the topic of discussion was specifically about real life people sitting behind their computers etc etc....


Nuff said.

[Donatrius]

that paragraph merely shows the truth behind the fact that the discussion in the IRF thread did actually become highly confusing and mixed subjects, it doesnt say or show that i personally have difficulty in differentiating between role play/game play and real life....

Seriously if thats what you thought then you need to review your universal translator and put it in for servicing. take it to pms if you have anything to say kee this topic on topic and clean from your bile.

[Hagon]

i dont forget that there are real people playing the game with real feelings at all and i understand that people want to forge relationships and friendships and trust with eachother in the fleet, however what would be the point of playing a game where real feelings werent involved at a certain level, how can i for example betray someone who cannot feel the emotion of betrayal.... there for i feel perfectly justified in any actions i may or might have partook in to create a scenario where members of a fleet may feel betrayed and upset about being betrayed, it isnt my fault that such people involved in previous discussions have difficulty getting up and walking away from the computer screen and forgetting about it, when ive had a bad gaming experience online and i get up and go out with friends i am never in a bad mood or angry about having a bad gaming experience because i know how to seperate those aspects of my life.....

You have no right to force YOUR RP on others. That's your RP, not mine. Not our fleets. Not anyone else's fleet.

What you are doing is a form of harassment.

In any MMO it's always clearly stipulated in the EULA or CoC that RP will never be taken as an excuse for griefing, harassment, hate crimes,and any other form of disruptive behaviour that negatively impacts another player on a personal/real life level. You can do whatever you like within your fleet, but you have no right, none at all, to involve any other fleet in it without their agreement to it. Especially one that clearly says that it's not a RP centric fleet. That the game isn't released yet is splitting hairs too.

Plain and simple. What goes on within each individual fleet internally is and will be outside of this game. You are confusing the interactions between real people forming real bonds of friendship between real people within their fleets with game mechanics and elements. Most people aren't role plying these friendships they're forming. You can't force others to role play. Most people do not want, nor should they need to worry about, those real friendships and bonds being a sham in this way. What you are perpetrating is an attack on one of the core social structures of these games.

The game having missions and such that explore the "espionage" side of things would be great fun, but what you've admitted doing is an entirely different thing. That you actually believe the stuff you're spouting is almost unbelievable.

[eNDIE]

guys cant you settle this by PMs or in the other thread i think this thread is about the game mechanic:)

[Hagon]

guys cant you settle this by PMs or in the other thread i think this thread is about the game mechanic:)I agree that it should be. If it was just about in-game elements. If you read the OP's post carefully though, they're bringing up this particular type of behaviour as being a part of some possible espionage element within the game.

[Donatrius]

I agree that it should be. If it was just about in-game elements. If you read the OP's post carefully though, they're bringing up this particular type of behaviour as being a part of some possible espionage element within the game.

which clearly it is, the whole area of having a fleet website/forum baring in mind a fleet/guild is part of an INGAME thing thus it is not outside of the game being part of a fleet at all like you keep saying it is, is to discuss tactics like you would ingame and formulate plans, someone invading your guild before the game is live is just the same as someone doing it ingame or out of game once the game is live only we dont have the choice of doing it ingame because the game isnt live yet, you need to learn to understand that aspect of things and that point of view which will not change at all from my perspective.....

[Trekkie]

I seem to enjoy almost all of the episodes of Star Trek that focus on espionage and such, so I definitely want to see them in the game as long as they feel significantly different from standard exploration missions. I think that with the faction-based gameplay the developers have a tremendous opportunity to explore these different kinds of missions, and although I can see them waiting until some time after launch to implement them, I really hope they do not because I think that missions focusing on covert operations could add quite a lot to the game.

[joriandrake]

Well, it wouldn't wonder me if the federation and klingons would have no spy missions whatsoever, but it would be unthinkable to have none as cardassians or romulans