Warp Speed max 10 or beyond?

[phifur]

I was just looking at a old star trek episode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ml2_FkNR90

4 mins and 20 sec in Spock say a projectile is going warp 15!!!!
and here too Riker say warp 13!!!! 4 mins and 20 sec in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vl-bj5Kn9U&feature=related

But in this episode (Voyager Threhold)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7WTghvLOK8

Warp 10 was the max? My questions is
What Canon is true?
What warp speed model will Cryptic use and why?

[demonic25]

I don't see it being out of the question for warp 10 or higher at this stage in the Trek universe.Maybe warp 10 atleast.

[Uben]

I would hope we keep it to below warp 10

I for one don't want to turn into a lizard :) (see Voyage - Threshold - worst Star Trek Episode EVER)

[stevedogg83]

there were 2 different scales used you can find the difference if you google star trek warp scale

[demonic25]

I would hope we keep it to below warp 10

I for one don't want to turn into a lizard :) (see Voyage - Threshold - worst Star Trek Episode EVER)

Yeah i mean wth was that all about...it was soooo stupid it's beyond words.

[LordDave]

As steve said, there are different warp scales. Basically, the warp scale was redone to more closely match the speed of light vs mass scale. As your speed increases towards the speed of light, your mass increases exponentially. At the speed of light, your mass is infinite. (theoretically)

So the warp scale as it is currently known has warp 10 at the max where you literally exist in every point in the universe simultaneously. This should require an infinite amount of energy, but Voyager played tricks with this for the sake of a bad story.

This is also why the difference between warp 2 and 5 isn't as great as warp 9 to 9.975

[Desterion]

We won't be seeing warp 10. We'l be seeing the high 9s, but i have a feeling max warp speed on a ship is going to be lowered depending on fittings and what's in the cargo bays.

[nicah64]

Here's hoping there won't be warp 10. It just seems a ripoff if you could dematerialise and reappear at any point in the universe.. think of how it could ruin the pvp aspect. You could be firing off torpedoes and almost destroy an enemy when bang! He is gone, who knows where.

[Desterion]

People will just always knock out the warp drive first then. Well, any remotely experienced pvp player would likely be doing that anyway.

[phifur]

wow lord dave that a good answer:eek: and thanks good information to know.

[KO_Gilligan]

As steve said, there are different warp scales. Basically, the warp scale was redone to more closely match the speed of light vs mass scale. As your speed increases towards the speed of light, your mass increases exponentially. At the speed of light, your mass is infinite. (theoretically)

So the warp scale as it is currently known has warp 10 at the max where you literally exist in every point in the universe simultaneously. This should require an infinite amount of energy, but Voyager played tricks with this for the sake of a bad story.

This is also why the difference between warp 2 and 5 isn't as great as warp 9 to 9.975

Oh ho, :eek:
I remember this exact discussion resulted in my 7 nacelle ship doing warp 9.999999999999999999998 last time. I can't remember the exact number of nines actually - but it was alot :(

[LordDave]

More Nacelles doesn't equal more speed. :p

[KO_Gilligan]

More Nacelles doesn't equal more speed. :p

Except when they're bigger :p

[LordDave]

Except when they're bigger :p

Unless it's Voyager. Those shuttles were small as hell, but they got it up to Warp 10.

[A-British-Ferengi]

Well size probably matters in getting to the speed of light but once your there i think its irrelevant (only theorizing)

[Denzen]

Voyager had so many holes, right from the start, no real story to work with *bam* hole -- zip to other side of galaxy, then the sotries just got holier from there, and Admiral Janeway talking to CAPTAIN Picard in Nemesis, say whaaat ?!?! Mind u picard was a bit of a rebel letting Hugh live and all, dratted morals !

Moreover the earlier point that warp 2 vs warp 5 has nothing on warp 9 vs warp 9.3476 it grows exponentially, especially after 9 as you approach the temporal horizon .... okay I made that term up.... where IS my tech manual .... hrmm

D

[LordDave]

Voyager had so many holes, right from the start, no real story to work with *bam* hole -- zip to other side of galaxy, then the sotries just got holier from there, and Admiral Janeway talking to CAPTAIN Picard in Nemesis, say whaaat ?!?! Mind u picard was a bit of a rebel letting Hugh live and all, dratted morals !

Actually Picard didn't take an admiral spot out of choice. Janeway, however, probably didn't want to command another ship again. lol.


Moreover the earlier point that warp 2 vs warp 5 has nothing on warp 9 vs warp 9.3476 it grows exponentially, especially after 9 as you approach the temporal horizon .... okay I made that term up.... where IS my tech manual .... hrmm

D
Exactly, that's what I said.

[wingnutf22]

You wouldn't want to see a captain promoted if they managed to get their ship back intact from thousands if not millions of light years away some 93 years or so ahead of schedule, through hostile areas of space no less. If anything deserves a promotion that does.

[A-British-Ferengi]

Or at least a raise lol

[OrabIbo]

I'm thinking that warp speed will essentially be irrealevant. Why? Because who is going to go at a slower warp speed when they have the option to go at maximum speed wherever they go?

I doubt cryptic will make slower max warp speeds for individual ships, but they might.

Or maybe there will be a slight penalty for consistently traveling at Maximum warp. I would like to think so. Like engines taking damage for excessivly going at warp 10 all the time. Or it starts eating into your power reserves.

Another option might be, it is automatically handled by the game. Short distances will be set automatically for lower warp speeds. Unless you are traveling several sectors, or on some sort of emergency mission. Wiill be able to travel at maximum warp.

But with Cryptics emphasis on no death penalties, or hinderances for other activities. It is a debatable subject until they come out with the final word.

For me? I would like to see limitations put in place to make slower Warp speeds a viable choice. Otherwise, nobody will travel at Warp 5 for any reason.

[LordDave]

I'm thinking that warp speed will essentially be irrealevant. Why? Because who is going to go at a slower warp speed when they have the option to go at maximum speed wherever they go?

I doubt cryptic will make slower max warp speeds for individual ships, but they might.

Or maybe there will be a slight penalty for consistently traveling at Maximum warp. I would like to think so. Like engines taking damage for excessivly going at warp 10 all the time. Or it starts eating into your power reserves.

Another option might be, it is automatically handled by the game. Short distances will be set automatically for lower warp speeds. Unless you are traveling several sectors, or on some sort of emergency mission. Wiill be able to travel at maximum warp.

But with Cryptics emphasis on no death penalties, or hinderances for other activities. It is a debatable subject until they come out with the final word.

For me? I would like to see limitations put in place to make slower Warp speeds a viable choice. Otherwise, nobody will travel at Warp 5 for any reason.

Just have fuel be an issue.

[A-British-Ferengi]

Im sure there will be plenty of people who want to RP favourate episodes of star trek or just RP on the whole, and they generally dont go at maximum warp much in star trek

[Spawk]

Honestly, it should be warp 9 and then you activate the 'Slip Stream Drive' (also as seen in voyager), because honestly i agree, when tom paris turned into a lizard, and mated with janeway, i must say i really didnt want to watch voyager anymore... however, i had already bought seasons 1-7.. needless to say i had two months off of work.. :) so yes back to topic... 'Slip Stream Drive' ....."Engage"

[Denzen]

Cryptic has already said there wil be ways to travel quickly, I assume it will be transwarp hubs. thanks to ADMIRAL Janeway, SF has been playing with these things for a few years now, personally I think this sux and grinding on long journeys should be an integral part (you could run into ANYTHING and should get some base EXP just for being online, more for travel, dahh well) , but then I'm hardcore :D

Luvvit

D

[A-British-Ferengi]

You dont get rainy days where you have to say inside in space where you can use the holodeck, the holodecks were built so you can keep yourself occupied both physically and mentally and if your alone most likely sexually, so if i were going to do it i would do it so you could run scenarios on the holodeck while travelling below warp ten:mad: and that criptic added more scenarios all the time, i myself think Gene Goddenberry himself would have liked it this way

[Denzen]

Are you trying to plug your holosuite programs again ?!??!?! :eek:

[A-British-Ferengi]

The dungeon program and close up tour of Dianna Troys camel toe are some of the most popular out there
lol

[PrimeDirector]

Or maybe there will be a slight penalty for consistently traveling at Maximum warp. I would like to think so. Like engines taking damage for excessivly going at warp 10 all the time. Or it starts eating into your power reserves.



If starfleet protocols are similar in 2409, there should be a limit on traveling faster than warp 5 (see "Force of Nature" TNG). Of course, this speed limit was alluded to in two later episodes where Picard was allowed to exceed this speed limit. I imagine with a war going on in 2409, some missions will be granted priority overrides, but I would not be surprised to see a capped warp at 5 for starfleet.

Perhaps this could be an advantage for Klingon ships??? AND perhaps Klingon space is full of warped subspace fields due the overuse of high warp drive which may add some interesting navigation to the game.

I do agree that the transwarp drive used at the end of Voyager will make an appearance and may be used to travel between quadrants (that and the rare but dreaded Q encounter).

[A-British-Ferengi]

What do you mean the Q are funny in my opinion

[PrimeDirector]

What do you mean the Q are funny in my opinion


I completely agree; Q episodes were some of the best...just looking at it from a Picard perspective (you know that was the only time when he was really an a-hole to somebody consistently, except in "Tapestry" one of my favs).

[Sorbek]

I think there need to be different ships that have different maximum speeds mostly because why do you need to consider if you can win a fight if you can just warp out and everything can only go so fast so you know once your ahead and out of weapons range it will never catch you.

I want to be able to chase down enemies that are running from me. I also want the option of attempting to get out of there and maybe leading the npc or player to a certain star system that will allow our ships to be on a more equal footing because of some kind of sensor interference or something like that.

The possiblities are endless with the Star Trek Universe.

[k.mpok]

I would hope to have a speed cap for general use of warp 5 and 9 used only for high priority missions.

If sticking to tech material then ships can only hold max warp 9.what ever. for only so long. I would hope that STO follows the same route.

General cruising the universe at warp 5 is just fine by me.


As to the OP no warp 10 is theoritically as you reach warp 10 your energy usage to push/pull and infinite weighted ship is just impossibly. I see no reason why you need to be in that much of a hurry. I still am not a fan of slip stream either. IMO once you start covering that much distance in an instance then your world/universe becomes infinitely smaller.

[evan.is.weyoun]

I would hope to have a speed cap for general use of warp 5 and 9 used only for high priority missions.

If sticking to tech material then ships can only hold max warp 9.what ever. for only so long. I would hope that STO follows the same route.

General cruising the universe at warp 5 is just fine by me.


As to the OP no warp 10 is theoritically as you reach warp 10 your energy usage to push/pull and infinite weighted ship is just impossibly. I see no reason why you need to be in that much of a hurry. I still am not a fan of slip stream either. IMO once you start covering that much distance in an instance then your world/universe becomes infinitely smaller.
Well put! That last statement is worthy of being quoted, haha. I definitely want to have to wait at least a few minutes traveled from sector to sector. In all other games it takes time to walk/ride places, it should be now different in STO but I definitely don't want the same scale as in the show unless we're just traveling short distances with warp (as in system to system traveling). Anything other than that, as in traveling to Talaxia or what have you, I want a Transwarp hub or a caretaker or something haha.

[Dracoprimus]

As steve said, there are different warp scales. Basically, the warp scale was redone to more closely match the speed of light vs mass scale. As your speed increases towards the speed of light, your mass increases exponentially. At the speed of light, your mass is infinite. (theoretically)

So the warp scale as it is currently known has warp 10 at the max where you literally exist in every point in the universe simultaneously. This should require an infinite amount of energy, but Voyager played tricks with this for the sake of a bad story.

This is also why the difference between warp 2 and 5 isn't as great as warp 9 to 9.975

As others have mentioned the scale was changed between TOS and TNG, in TOS each warp factor was considered to be a multiple of the speed of light, ie. warp 4 was 4 times the speed of light. But, in TNG, since they were going for more travel and longer distances, they revamped the scale to be more logarithmic, to avoid having people going warp 40.
But, the limit of 10 is not really based on the issue of speed vs. mass. Relative to the vessel, you're not really traveling at the speed of light, that's the trick with warp drive. You create warp bubbles that surround the vessel, and 'warp' the shape of space around the vessel so that the distance traveled is shorter inside the warp bubble, and then the bubbles push against each other to propel you forward. So, it's kind of like having the space around you move, rather than actually moving yourself, so you never technically exceed the speed of light. This is why you're not allowed to use a warp field to close to a planet, talk about ecological disaster. This also what inspired all the graphics where a starship appears to stretch out so much when it hits warp speed.

And as far as limiting how often you can use warp speeds of 9 or higher, it's like a car engine, sure it might be able to hit 100 mph, but keep that up to long and it burns out your engine, or you run out of fuel. I think most vessels have a cruise speed around warp 7 or 8.

[OrabIbo]

Just have fuel be an issue.

I doubt ppl will have the patience to deal with getting fuel all the time. It's one of those pesky RL problems that shouldn't be in a game. Unless it takes a real LOooong time to deplete your fuel reserves. which is.. what btw?! Deuritium? And can we refuel in space like we saw on Voyager?

That would stem some of the invonvience.

If starfleet protocols are similar in 2409, there should be a limit on traveling faster than warp 5 (see "Force of Nature" TNG). Of course, this speed limit was alluded to in two later episodes where Picard was allowed to exceed this speed limit. I imagine with a war going on in 2409, some missions will be granted priority overrides, but I would not be surprised to see a capped warp at 5 for starfleet.

Perhaps this could be an advantage for Klingon ships??? AND perhaps Klingon space is full of warped subspace fields due the overuse of high warp drive which may add some interesting navigation to the game.

I do agree that the transwarp drive used at the end of Voyager will make an appearance and may be used to travel between quadrants (that and the rare but dreaded Q encounter).

I'm pretty sure Federation newer federation ships than the Intrepid could get around this by variable geometry Warp Nacelles. How many Federation ships will include this in STO is beyond me. Will it be an upgrade? maybe.

But I would like for it to have some sort of importance in STO and the fact represented.

but I would hate to see Klingon ships being able to go nearly twice as fast as a Federation ship just because they don't have to adhere to the Prime Directive. I'm sure that would fall for a Federation ship as a emergency for the sake of her crew. And be allowed to travel as fast as she could go to get away or fight. Hence the restriction may be lifted for combat. But normal travel to get from sector or sector would be limited to Warp 5 and Trans Warp conduits to get to farter reaches of space faster.

[LordDave]

As others have mentioned the scale was changed between TOS and TNG, in TOS each warp factor was considered to be a multiple of the speed of light, ie. warp 4 was 4 times the speed of light. But, in TNG, since they were going for more travel and longer distances, they revamped the scale to be more logarithmic, to avoid having people going warp 40.
But, the limit of 10 is not really based on the issue of speed vs. mass. Relative to the vessel, you're not really traveling at the speed of light, that's the trick with warp drive. You create warp bubbles that surround the vessel, and 'warp' the shape of space around the vessel so that the distance traveled is shorter inside the warp bubble, and then the bubbles push against each other to propel you forward. So, it's kind of like having the space around you move, rather than actually moving yourself, so you never technically exceed the speed of light. This is why you're not allowed to use a warp field to close to a planet, talk about ecological disaster. This also what inspired all the graphics where a starship appears to stretch out so much when it hits warp speed.

And as far as limiting how often you can use warp speeds of 9 or higher, it's like a car engine, sure it might be able to hit 100 mph, but keep that up to long and it burns out your engine, or you run out of fuel. I think most vessels have a cruise speed around warp 7 or 8.

I know, I'm just saying that the warp scale is similar to the mass speed scale of Relativity.

[Citationpilot]

Speed is foremost a captains discretion! This has been a reality since the first dingy set sail, and will continue to be long after humans have actually traveled the stars.

As a pilot I think that the in-game system should function similarly to RL. How many times have you been on an airline flight and left late but arrived early? His supervisor didn't tell him what speed to fly he did what he thought was right. He probably burned more fuel but he achieved his mission goal. However, you can't always push the throttles up and solve your problems...eventually they come back to bite you when you can least afford it.

If I run at MCT (Maximum Continuous Thrust) every trip I fly; I will not only burn more fuel and shorten the useful life of the engines before overhaul, but additionally at some altitudes I will actually exceed the airframes structural capabilities. Space is not perceived as having the same density variability as our atmosphere so that might not directly port but there is a solution.

If Cryptic needs you to take X minutes crossing a zone they can always say "Due to the whatchamajig nebula there is interference with the creation of a stable warp bubble" and assign the speed they want you to travel at so the unknown pirates can jump you or whatever.

I believe that the speed selection can ultimately be decided by decay and loot. Constantly having to refuel or repair in-game might suck but that can be scaled to an appropriate level. Since everyone likes warp 5 for some reason lets say beyond 5 you accrue durability loss on certain systems. Increasing the faster you go obviously. Below this level your pudgy little scout ship could serve the fleet for centuries.

And as a reward if you fly at lower speeds you rarely have to repair/refuel so you end up being able to upgrade sooner. Perhaps you can receive a commendation for efficiency and be granted better equipment due to your efforts. This has a basis in RL too. If you constantly beat up the equipment you'll eventually get canned or relegated to the busted stuff.

[Kinneas]

Reminds me of the movie Spaceballs:

"Ludicrous speed" and "They've gone plaid!"

[cv_coco]

If I remember correct in the last TNG episode (All good things) when Picard is in the future (supposedly 2395) on the medic ship USS Pasteur they go to warp 13 or 15. And this should be on the 'new' warp scale. They probably forgot this detail when they were writing the Voyager story...

[joriandrake]

there is still transwarp and graviton catapulting to go beyond warp 10, i guess the new warp speed classification will be used after transwarp is more explored and researched

[knix]

If I remember correct in the last TNG episode (All good things) when Picard is in the future (supposedly 2395) on the medic ship USS Pasteur they go to warp 13 or 15. And this should be on the 'new' warp scale. They probably forgot this detail when they were writing the Voyager story...
I was a bit surprised by that myself. Maybe they had revised the warp scale again in that future timeline to reduce the number of decimals needed to represent high warp speeds as warp technology evolved. After all, It's a bit cumbersome to say "Set a course for the Rigel system. Warp 9.999875. Engage!"

[0wl]

As steve said, there are different warp scales. Basically, the warp scale was redone to more closely match the speed of light vs mass scale. As your speed increases towards the speed of light, your mass increases exponentially. At the speed of light, your mass is infinite. (theoretically)

So the warp scale as it is currently known has warp 10 at the max where you literally exist in every point in the universe simultaneously. This should require an infinite amount of energy, but Voyager played tricks with this for the sake of a bad story.

This is also why the difference between warp 2 and 5 isn't as great as warp 9 to 9.975

Well put as usual! :)

[OrabIbo]

Maybe the starship will shake and shudder. Or possibly drop out of warp when the durability on the Warp Engines start to degrade. Not that I want this to happen quickly or often. But c'mon. They won't last forever. And we need some moments where engineers can feel like Scotty and perform some "Mir-racles!" ;) Just to get her home or keep her going.

[0wl]

It is part 'o ST so yes anything "man" made must sometimes or rather often have its flaws or breakdowns! :D

[CRTimper]

Keep in mind, that according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, some time bewtween TOS, and TNG, there was a change in the way warp speeds were calculated. During TOS warp speeds were mere calculations of speed. Warp one was 1X the speed of light, warp 2 was 2X, and so on. In TNG, warp speeds were based on the maximum achievable speed versus power requirments. Warp on was still 1X the speed of light, for warp 2 was closer to 6X the speed of light. The maximum achievable warp speed was warp 9.98, and with that, a basis of warp speeds were calculated. With warp one at the bottom, and the unreachable warp ten at the top. Hopefully this will explain the confusion with TOS remarks to warp speed, and TNG references. By the way, one of the remarks on production notes from "All Good Things" TNG, is that warp 13 references were merely a joke, and that Starfleet would have presumably returned to the old way of calculating warp speed merely as a multiplication of lightspeed. By the way, warp 13 would then be around warp 3, a very SLOW escape speed from attacking Klingons.

[Tain]

I don't think warp speed is even going to enter into this game. You can't actually "warp" anywhere. FTL travel is accomplished with an rpg style overworld map movement system where you fly around as if you were under impulse power.

In effect, "warp" in STO works more like hyperspace in babylon 5. You enter hyperspace by "going to warp" in STO, this puts you into the sector travel map. You then fly around in "hyperspace" until you get to a point of interest and then you leave it, re-emerging in "normal space", the instance that is your destination. Warp factor is actually totally irrelevant in this setup.


The Only things we are missing are the jump vortexes when we enter and exit "sector" space :D

[Chianzi]

We won't be seeing warp 10. We'l be seeing the high 9s, but i have a feeling max warp speed on a ship is going to be lowered depending on fittings and what's in the cargo bays.

But if you're in a warp bubble and bending space around you, your mass is irrelevant.

[mine777]

Wait...what?

As of TNG and forward, warp 10 is a theoretical maximum, where a given object occupies all points in the Universe at once.

Warp 13 would crash the servers...

[YoshiSato]

I don't know if this has been posted but I'm really going to show my Trek Geekness.

The TOS warp scale is as follows

V/c = WF3

Where V = Velocity of the vessel, c = the velocity of light, and WF = the warp factor.

The TNG scale is:

V/c = WF(10/3) and works up to Warp 9

After Warp 9 the following formula takes effect

V/c = WF[<(10/3)+a*(-Ln(10-WF))^n>+f1*((WF-9)^5)+f2*((WF-9)^11)]

Where a is the subspace field density, n is the electromagnetic flux, and f1 and f2 are the Cochrane refraction and reflection indexes respectively. Under ideal conditions values of a = 0.00264320, n = 2.87926700, f1 = 0.06274120 and f2 = 0.32574600 can be expected within a "normal" area of deep interstellar space.


:eek:

:D;)


As Warp speeds faster than factor 9.975 become more and more common place it would only be logical that a new scale would be invented. After all its not that easy to remember if the captian said Warp 9.9995 or Warp 9.99995 when you have consoles exploding all over the bridge.

[xsteinbachx]

As Warp speeds faster than factor 9.975 become more and more common place it would only be logical that a new scale would be invented. After all its not that easy to remember if the captian said Warp 9.9995 or Warp 9.99995 when you have consoles exploding all over the bridge.

Thats when you just say " Maximum Warp, Engage "

[JamesCGamora]

I don't know if this has been posted but I'm really going to show my Trek Geekness.

The TOS warp scale is as follows

V/c = WF3

Where V = Velocity of the vessel, c = the velocity of light, and WF = the warp factor.

The TNG scale is:

V/c = WF(10/3) and works up to Warp 9

After Warp 9 the following formula takes effect

V/c = WF[<(10/3)+a*(-Ln(10-WF))^n>+f1*((WF-9)^5)+f2*((WF-9)^11)]

Where a is the subspace field density, n is the electromagnetic flux, and f1 and f2 are the Cochrane refraction and reflection indexes respectively. Under ideal conditions values of a = 0.00264320, n = 2.87926700, f1 = 0.06274120 and f2 = 0.32574600 can be expected within a "normal" area of deep interstellar space.


:eek:

:D;)


As Warp speeds faster than factor 9.975 become more and more common place it would only be logical that a new scale would be invented. After all its not that easy to remember if the captian said Warp 9.9995 or Warp 9.99995 when you have consoles exploding all over the bridge.

I could be wrong, but I remember seeing an interview years ago with Gene and one of the questions asked was how fast exactly is Warp Speed. I seem to remember him stating that Warp speed was a variable speed depending on where you were. Which I took to meaning that depending on what anomlies and gravitational forces were in the sector of space you were travel in the speed could be faster or slower than the speed of light which in turn would also apply to factors higher than 1

[BoydofZINJ]

I was just looking at a old star trek episode

....

What Canon is true?
What warp speed model will Cryptic use and why?

From some of the fake tech non cannon book things. It has always been said warp 10 is always maximum. However, the Next Generation warp 5 is faster than the original series Warp 5. However, all warp 1s were the same speed and there were tiers of warp. So, a ship with the engine power of the Original series could see a Next Generation ship travel and it look like it was traveling faster than possible and faster than warp 10... even though it may only be traveling warp 9 in its own power curve. Likewise, outside the ship situations (gravity wells, spatial anomlies, Q) could effect the speed of the ship without making it go into warp 10.

WITH ALL THAT IN MIND,

the one thing to remember is....


ITS NOT REAL. IT IS FICTION. THEY ARE NOT GODS. STAR TREK IS NOT REAL! STAR TREK ACTORS ARE SOMETIMES GIVEN BAD SCRIPTS THAT DONT MAKE SENSE (aka SPOCKS BRAIN) and we want to make every word and minute into a dramatic real life event.

[Seru1]

(see Voyage - Threshold - worst Star Trek Episode EVER)


I must completely disagree it put a cap on the ridiculous ever expanding warp number. I found it very interesting.


The future of warp would be trans warp or folding space.


BTW, In those episodes with Riker and Spock were those episodes containing organisms or just machines. It may only affect machines adversely.

[Brane_Ded]

Keep in mind, that according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, some time bewtween TOS, and blah blah blah blah blah treknobabble blah blah blah

Every day is a great day for thread necromancy.

[JamesCGamora]

I lol'd at that

[Treklover]

i thought that warp 10 was the highest... i remember reading that q doesn't even travel at warp 10. He moves at speeds of like warp 9.9999 or something to that effect. But also remember... the enterprise or any ship in a warp field does not actually move... it's the space that is being moved around the ship. The Warp field expands space behind the ship and contracts it in the front. Thus giving the appearance of the ship moving. Cool thing is i just watched a program the other day on discovery sci channel and we currently have a working theory or an actual equation that proves that warp field tech is possible. ds2 = -dt2 + (dx-vsf = (fs) dt)2 + dy2 + dz2
Note that all the 2's are squares but i couldn't post it as such here :) Pretty cool imho.

[rejarial]

i want to point something out, as taken directly from two sources, one, being a previous post i made on a diff thread covering much the same topic, the second source is from where i pulled the information in the first place. I cite the following book written by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda called: Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. I cite page 56 with an excerpt taken direct from the book:

Theoretical Limits:
Eugene's Limit allows for warp stress to increase asymptotically, approaching but never reaching a value corresponding to Warp Factor 10. As field values apporach ten, power requirements rise geometrically, while the aforementioned driver coil efficiency drops dramtaically. The required force coupling and decoupling of the warp field layers rise to unattainable frequencies, exceeding not only the flight system's control capabilities, but more important the limit imposed by the aforementioned Planck time**. Even if it were possible to expend the theoretically infinite amount of energy required, an object at Warp 10 would be traveling infinitely fast, occupying all points in the known universe simultaneously.

For those of you who do not know what Planck Time is, it is a unit of time defined in physics. i supply a link so you can see the definition yourselves hehe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time

----------------------------------------------
NOW, i want to go on record saying, warp 10 is IMPOSSIBLE. no starship can produce the energy needed to achieve warp 10. it was even said by the authors of the book, that when the traveler was doing his thing, in the episode: "Where No One Has Gone Before, they estimate the speed achieved was ONLY warp 9.9999999996. taken from the prior page, pg 55. now, can we stop this silly thread now?

[JamesCGamora]

i thought that warp 10 was the highest... i remember reading that q doesn't even travel at warp 10. He moves at speeds of like warp 9.9999 or something to that effect. But also remember... the enterprise or any ship in a warp field does not actually move... it's the space that is being moved around the ship. The Warp field expands space behind the ship and contracts it in the front. Thus giving the appearance of the ship moving. Cool thing is i just watched a program the other day on discovery sci channel and we currently have a working theory or an actual equation that proves that warp field tech is possible. ds2 = -dt2 + (dx-vsf = (fs) dt)2 + dy2 + dz2
Note that all the 2's are squares but i couldn't post it as such here :) Pretty cool imho.


Q instanteously travels...so technically he could possibly travel @ Warp 10 or possibly not...who knows.

Everything else in that statement seems spot on to me.

[YoshiSato]

I could be wrong, but I remember seeing an interview years ago with Gene and one of the questions asked was how fast exactly is Warp Speed. I seem to remember him stating that Warp speed was a variable speed depending on where you were. Which I took to meaning that depending on what anomlies and gravitational forces were in the sector of space you were travel in the speed could be faster or slower than the speed of light which in turn would also apply to factors higher than 1

That is true.

The Cochrane Scale(TOS Era) was an indicator of the actual speed of the ship.

The Terrance-Neltorr Graduated Scale is indicative of the subspace stress levels which the vessel must both create and endure, rather than the actual velocity of the vessel itself.

Daystrom Technical Library (http://ditl.org)

[YoshiSato]

----------------------------------------------
NOW, i want to go on record saying, warp 10 is IMPOSSIBLE. no starship can produce the energy needed to achieve warp 10. it was even said by the authors of the book, that when the traveler was doing his thing, in the episode: "Where No One Has Gone Before, they estimate the speed achieved was ONLY warp 9.9999999996. taken from the prior page, pg 55. now, can we stop this silly thread now?

It's only impossible under the TNG scale.

I'm very sure once Warp Factor 9.9999999996 becomes common place a new scale will be designed to make it a lot eaiser.

When you're under attack and have bulkheads falling down and consoles exploding everywhere there is no time to count how many 9s you were just ordered to input into the helm/ :eek:

The difference between Warp 9.9999999996 and 9.999999996 might only be one point but it has a HUGE impact on your survival.

[Laediin]

My starship's warp drive goes to eleven.

[rejarial]

It's only impossible under the TNG scale.

I'm very sure once Warp Factor 9.9999999996 becomes common place a new scale will be designed to make it a lot eaiser.

When you're under attack and have bulkheads falling down and consoles exploding everywhere there is no time to count how many 9s you were just ordered to input into the helm/ :eek:

The difference between Warp 9.9999999996 and 9.999999996 might only be one point but it has a HUGE impact on your survival.

ok, your wrong, just flat wrong. until they <cryptic> says they have adopted a NEW warp speed scale, ALL warp speed factors are considered the same as TNG. afterall, we are only 30 <thirty> years after NEMESIS. not NEAR enough time to devise an entirely NEW warp speed scale. so, sorry. and NO current starship until once again, cryptic, with paramounts permission mind you, says we have ships capable of breaking past warp 9.9990 we are limited to only 9.9990. you seem to fail to understand just HOW MUCH ENERGY is needed to go even THAT fast. they just lack the programming speeds, technological capabilities to forcably couple and decouple warp field layers at the speeds needed to drive past 9.9990. its just impossible.

[JamesCGamora]

My starship's warp drive goes to eleven.

I lol'd at that.

Spinaltap ftw

[rejarial]

oh, btw, i also want to point out, that, the book, im pulling this info from, is not written by just anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the trek universe, this book is written by two people who, guess what folks, had their hands in MAKING STTNG. doubt me? check up on Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda. and if THEY say warp 10 is IMPOSSIBLE, im inclinded to accept with 0 hesitation that warp 10 IS IMPOSSIBLE. now, we can continue to debate this needlessly when the fact is, if two members of the production staff of a canon SERIES say it aint a possiblility, then, guess what, their word is LAW. to further point my point out, they are some of the people who designed warp drives, impulse engines, and every other bit of technology in the trek universe. some of the staff have been on staff since TOS, and when they say, its not a possibility, it is. you can keep debating it all you like, but your wasting your time. THEY wrote the book, THEY wrote the law, you cant wish it changed because you want it. cryptic cant change it because you want it. the deal is, until the original production staff says differently, an apple is an apple. and warp 10 just aint gonna happen, let alone warp 9.9991. case closed. new thread

[YoshiSato]

ok, your wrong, just flat wrong. until they <cryptic> says they have adopted a NEW warp speed scale, ALL warp speed factors are considered the same as TNG. afterall, we are only 30 <thirty> years after NEMESIS. not NEAR enough time to devise an entirely NEW warp speed scale. so, sorry. and NO current starship until once again, cryptic, with paramounts permission mind you, says we have ships capable of breaking past warp 9.9990 we are limited to only 9.9990. you seem to fail to understand just HOW MUCH ENERGY is needed to go even THAT fast. they just lack the programming speeds, technological capabilities to forcably couple and decouple warp field layers at the speeds needed to drive past 9.9990. its just impossible.

No you are wrong! First I never said anything about Crytic making a new Warp Scale.

Second, in All Good Things, Riker orders his ship to engage Warp 13. :eek:
Now either 1 Paramount violated the Warp 10 limit or a new scale was invented. Either way the Nerd war is on. :cool:

Oh and don't try any of "that different time line" crap either. The laws of physicals are the SAME in between parallel universes.

[deamonomic]

In 2370, the Hekaran scientist Serova discovered that the use of conventional warp engines caused damage to the fabric of spacetime. The Federation Council imposed a speed limit of warp factor 5 on all Federation vessels in all but extreme emergency cases, such as medical emergencies. (TNG: "Force of Nature", "Eye of the Beholder")

taken from star trek wiki

[YoshiSato]

In 2370, the Hekaran scientist Serova discovered that the use of conventional warp engines caused damage to the fabric of spacetime. The Federation Council imposed a speed limit of warp factor 5 on all Federation vessels in all but extreme emergency cases, such as medical emergencies. (TNG: "Force of Nature", "Eye of the Beholder")

taken from star trek wiki

I recall somewhere that Warp engines were modified to fix that problem.

[deamonomic]

oh, btw, i also want to point out, that, the book, im pulling this info from, is not written by just anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the trek universe, this book is written by two people who, guess what folks, had their hands in MAKING STTNG. doubt me? check up on Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda. and if THEY say warp 10 is IMPOSSIBLE, im inclinded to accept with 0 hesitation that warp 10 IS IMPOSSIBLE. now, we can continue to debate this needlessly when the fact is, if two members of the production staff of a canon SERIES say it aint a possiblility, then, guess what, their word is LAW. to further point my point out, they are some of the people who designed warp drives, impulse engines, and every other bit of technology in the trek universe. some of the staff have been on staff since TOS, and when they say, its not a possibility, it is. you can keep debating it all you like, but your wasting your time. THEY wrote the book, THEY wrote the law, you cant wish it changed because you want it. cryptic cant change it because you want it. the deal is, until the original production staff says differently, an apple is an apple. and warp 10 just aint gonna happen, let alone warp 9.9991. case closed. new thread

btw. nothing is impossible, just not possible at this time. i guarantee that if you go back to the middle ages and ask them to make a flat screen tv, they will tell you its impossible. them ot being capable of making it doesnt mean that will always be so. eventualy they may find a way to do it.

[NemoFrog]

Warp is fading away after voyager comes home. By 2409, Transwarp should be nearing the end of successful tests, warp will be outdated soon enough in their timeline. All moot. Problem solved...

The real question is, what natural disaster will occur because of TWCs.

[JamesCGamora]

No you are wrong! First I never said anything about Crytic making a new Warp Scale.

Second, in All Good Things, Riker orders his ship to engage Warp 13. :eek:
Now either 1 Paramount violated the Warp 10 limit or a new scale was invented. Either way the Nerd war is on. :cool:

Oh and don't try any of "that different time line" crap either. The laws of physicals are the SAME in between parallel universes.

I wouldn't count the events of All Good Things as evidence of anything since that was a possible future that so far has not even come close to coming to pass

[rejarial]

No you are wrong! First I never said anything about Crytic making a new Warp Scale.

Second, in All Good Things, Riker orders his ship to engage Warp 13. :eek:
Now either 1 Paramount violated the Warp 10 limit or a new scale was invented. Either way the Nerd war is on. :cool:

Oh and don't try any of "that different time line" crap either. The laws of physicals are the SAME in between parallel universes.

you will take note, that, the timeline in which riker makes that order, had been signifcantly altered, and the idea of warp 13 notes the ORIGINAL warp scale, not the one that was used before Q had his fun with picard.

[rejarial]

btw. nothing is impossible, just not possible at this time. i guarantee that if you go back to the middle ages and ask them to make a flat screen tv, they will tell you its impossible. them ot being capable of making it doesnt mean that will always be so. eventualy they may find a way to do it.

to hit warp 10, you need to expend an infinite amount of energy. something NO starship can do, not even the most powerful force in the known universe is capable of, a super massive black hole, and they are sources of purely frightning amounts of energy, and yet, even they couldnt provide the power needed. and, as the following says, it just cant happen.

Theoretical Limits:
Eugene's Limit allows for warp stress to increase asymptotically, approaching but never reaching a value corresponding to Warp Factor 10. As field values apporach ten, power requirements rise geometrically, while the aforementioned driver coil efficiency drops dramtaically. The required force coupling and decoupling of the warp field layers rise to unattainable frequencies, exceeding not only the flight system's control capabilities, but more important the limit imposed by the aforementioned Planck time**. Even if it were possible to expend the theoretically infinite amount of energy required, an object at Warp 10 would be traveling infinitely fast, occupying all points in the known universe simultaneously.

For those of you who do not know what Planck Time is, it is a unit of time defined in physics. i supply a link so you can see the definition yourselves hehe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time

how many times must i put this on here?

[SyberSmoke]

Game wise, bets are it will be as others have stated. We have two modes of travel. First is warp and this will be through the Astrometrics view of the game. the second will be Transwarp, applied when you hit a certain rank or distance from earth.

Warp will be your standard navigation through a sector and will be a set single speed that players all go at so that we are all equal in game terms. Transwarp will be more like a quick travel system for crossing multiple sectors of space.

As for theory, it is just that. As much as people wpould like to say that the maximum speed is 10 and that is the hard limit. History is replete with statements like this...look at the sound barrier. So really, all people need to figure out is a new form of travel. This can be transwarp...this can be some other way. But there will always be people (scientists or writers) that find a way around it. And once they do...the sale will change again to reflect it. But till then it does not matter.

[rejarial]

Game wise, bets are it will be as others have stated. We have two modes of travel. First is warp and this will be through the Astrometrics view of the game. the second will be Transwarp, applied when you hit a certain rank or distance from earth.

Warp will be your standard navigation through a sector and will be a set single speed that players all go at so that we are all equal in game terms. Transwarp will be more like a quick travel system for crossing multiple sectors of space.

As for theory, it is just that. As much as people wpould like to say that the maximum speed is 10 and that is the hard limit. History is replete with statements like this...look at the sound barrier. So really, all people need to figure out is a new form of travel. This can be transwarp...this can be some other way. But there will always be people (scientists or writers) that find a way around it. And once they do...the sale will change again to reflect it. But till then it does not matter.

you speak of transwarp, which, is not normal warp. its something else entirely, governed by its own set of physics. im speaking of warp itself. in normal space, not down in a subspace layer, which is where transwarp resides. but, until the orginal production staff says differently, we can take for absolute certain that warp 10 is NOT going to be a thing we shall see.

[doh123]

people seem to not point out a fact....

warp numbers are arbitrary made up numbers to describe something, they are not a direct linear rating of how fast you are moving.

The scale goes from Warp 0 to Warp 10
where
Warp 0 is 0 times the speed of light
Warp 10 is infinity times the speed of light

They could have called it warp 50 if they wanted to, but they chose 0 to 10.

Regardless of stupid plots and Voyager episodes, warp 10 would be impossible on that scale, as it would be infinity times the speed of light... or in other words, so fast you'd be everywhere in existence at the same nanosecond. (including everywhere.. even in middle of stars where your toasted, and more then likely would destroy the entire universe)

Transwarp, or anything else does not break the barrier of infinity times the speed of light.

The problem with the scale going up to only 10 is you get stuck with.. as you get closer to infinity, getting a lot of decimals, as others have pointed out. If warp is continuously used, the scale needs to be changed, but most likely warp will be replaced with something else, like transwarp, which will have its own scale. A high speed transwarp might take the same travel time as something like warp 9.999999999995, but its not actually using warp. so they can make a new scale with new numbers....

[Onomas]

Will warp speed be used even to travel. Ive read posts talking about insta-travel and some about using real time travel. Or is this just for combat areas? Id like both. Insta-travel = less time spent, but lose out on potential exploration. Real time = long and boring but offer the best results for finding things and aliens :o