Commanding Officer-A Suggestion for Cryptic [Archive]

onesoul1982

12-25-2008, 05:51 AM

marscentral

12-25-2008, 06:14 AM

Traditionally and in Star Trek, the CO of a ship is called Captain regardless of rank. There's at least one episode were Picard calls someone Captain and his ship has a crew of one, the Captain.

ianobs

12-25-2008, 05:26 PM

Traditionally and in Star Trek, the CO of a ship is called Captain regardless of rank. There's at least one episode were Picard calls someone Captain and his ship has a crew of one, the Captain.

agreed, remembering that the rank and position of captain can be different.

take DS9 for example. sisco was of the rank of commander when he was in command of ds9. then he was promoted eventually to captain. but he was still commander of ds9.

i read in a TOS era book that there could only be 1 person with the rank of captain serving on a ship, so there wouldnt be any confusion as to who the boss was. if there was a visiting captain he would be temp. promoted to commodore for the duration

jayrelo

12-25-2008, 05:31 PM

Personally I'm okay with that, however some are not, for whatever reason. So it may go over better, with the term Commanding officer.

bleh. who cares what they think over something so trivial. pish tosh to that good sir. :p

Anichent

12-25-2008, 05:51 PM

During the Romulan blockade, when Data took command of a Nebula Class starship, the Bridge crew reffered to him as Captain. The only exception to the rule of every commanding officer being refered to as captain is if an Admiral or Commodore are in command, (every Admiral, being it rear admiral or fleet admiral would be reffered to simply as Admiral on a bridge)

Merius

12-25-2008, 06:14 PM

I do have a tiny suggestion. Instead of using the term "Captain", those of the community may respond to the term "Commanding Officer" better. I remember reading in the early FAQ "everyone will be a Captain". Personally I'm okay with that, however some are not, for whatever reason. So it may go over better, with the term Commanding officer.

I know there have been episodes done where an LT. or whomever happened to be on the bridge took command of the vessel...be it Enterprise,Voyager etc etc.

That - and change the term "bridge crew" to "senior staff"

Anichent

12-25-2008, 06:18 PM

That - and change the term "bridge crew" to "senior staff"

Senior staff and bridge crew are two different things. Senior staff may include any membors of the bridge crew, as well as Medical officers, Engineering officer or basically any officers; while bridge crew are simply the officers stationed on the bridge.

Freejack

12-25-2008, 06:46 PM

I prefer Skipper
:cool:

Merius

12-25-2008, 06:49 PM

Senior staff and bridge crew are two different things. Senior staff may include any membors of the bridge crew, as well as Medical officers, Engineering officer or basically any officers; while bridge crew are simply the officers stationed on the bridge.

exactly, because we are going to have a medical officer and engineering officer assigned to us as "pets"

So we need to be calling it senior staff, not bridge crew.

Trekkie

12-25-2008, 07:02 PM

This actually isn't a bad idea, but I think that "captain" will be used simply because that is more common in the Star Trek universe.

Spawk

12-25-2008, 07:12 PM

I myself was in the Navy and they do have a very valid point, the difference between a captain and a commanding officer is rank... for example a O-3 (LT) could be the commanding officer of a destroyer or smaller vessel, on the other hand an O-6 (Captain) is the captain of whatever vessel he has been ordered to be stationed on. Just an FYI to those creating the game based on current Naval Ranks... myself and the entire family cannot wait for this game to be released we will be dropping World of Warcraft for this.

All in all Great Job so far!!!

Honestly i would rather start the game as a non-ranked nobody, and earn the rank of commanding officer or captain and as a reward for whatever highest rank you can get either PvE or PvP, then you can build from a shuttle to a starship/flagship.

for example

E1 - starting out learning the scheme of things (Tutorial)
E2 - Next Phase of Missions
E3 - "
E4 - "
E5 - "
E6 - "
E7 - Chief Petty Officer Senior Enlisted, has availability to Certain Items Missions, or whatever cryptic wants
E8 - Senior Chief Senior Enlisted
E9 - Master Chief Petty Officer (there is also Fleet/Force Master Chief under this title, but they usually only have desk jobs at the pentagon)
E10 - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (or in this case Federation would take the place of the Navy)

Warrant Officers (these are Enlisted Officers, normally the individual that knows their job inside and out and are of a high enough rank to get commissioned as a Warrant Officer)

W2
W3
W4
W5

Officer's

O-1 Ensign
O-2 Lt JG (Junior Grade)
O-3 Lt (starting at this rank and above would you be able to actually have your own command)
O-4 Lt CMDR (Commander)
O-5 Commander
O-6 Captain

(Optional Officer Ranks for those going above and beyond their mission objectives, or even PvP titles, which include special availability to certain types of ship's; Equipment etc..)

O-7 Rear Admiral Lower half
O-8 Rear Admiral Upper half
O-9 Vice Admiral
O-10 Admiral

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O-11 Fleet Admiral (this rank only given to Game Master's, Instead of the Normal Title of "Game Master")

** again these are just my suggestions, Enjoy!

bradley1701

12-25-2008, 07:25 PM

KO_Gilligan

12-25-2008, 07:35 PM

I prefer Skipper
:cool:

^ LOL me too

Freejack

12-25-2008, 07:36 PM

From a different angle, a Commodore or Admiral could be in command of a ship and could still be addressed as captain without disrespect.
:cool:

_Pax_

12-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Spawk

12-25-2008, 07:44 PM

From a different angle, a Commodore or Admiral could be in command of a ship and could still be addressed as captain without disrespect.
:cool:

True, but Commodore is such an ancient title, they were given that title in the time of war and they were the only ones to command that vessel, the title fares from the wooden ship sailing days. when "ole Iron Sides" USS Constitution Rules the seas.

Anichent

12-25-2008, 07:47 PM

True, but Commodore is such an ancient title, they were given that title in the time of war and they were the only ones to command that vessel, the title fares from the wooden ship sailing days. when "ole Iron Sides" USS Constitution Rules the seas.

But the title did exist in the Original Series, so there is a chance it is still used to 24th century Trek

Spawk

12-25-2008, 07:48 PM

In Naval tradition - from which Starfleet takes the vast majority of it's inspiratin - the commanding officer of a ship is ALWAYS that ships Captain - even if they hold a rank different from "Captain" themselves.

A very small ship (let's call it the Venture) might be commanded by, say, a Lieutenant (let's call him "Lieutenant Joe Smith"). Aboard that ship, he is addressed as "Captain", or "Captain Smith". For the sake of precision, when another officer comes aboard, our friend Joe would introduce himself as "Lieutenant Smith, Commanding the Venture."

This is also very true in Current Naval Traditions, however, to coincide with this, he wouldnt be called "Captain" Smith, he would be "the Commanding officer of the USS Venture" The title Captain is ONLY reserved for those who hold that title and have earned it. Like i said this is Current Naval Traditions not Trek, i apologize i do not meant to start any arguments... i was just giving my ideas and my prospective on this forum topic.

Spawk

12-25-2008, 07:49 PM

But the title did exist in the Original Series, so there is a chance it is still used to 24th century Trek

Good point, i need to catch up on my trek.

Spawk

12-25-2008, 08:28 PM

From a different angle, a Commodore or Admiral could be in command of a ship and could still be addressed as captain without disrespect.
:cool:

thats actually kinda of funny, i was once on the actual USS Enterprise, there was a three star admiral on board and our DivO (Division Officer) told us to address him as "Sir" or "Admiral" Never call him "Captain" even though he was in control of the ship, it is a sign of disrespect and by saying Captain to an admiral you would be verbally demoting a very high ranking Naval Officer, not good, because the brig or some kind of NJP (non Judicial Punishment) would be in your future.

Merius

12-25-2008, 08:29 PM

plus, The Federation is entering in a time of war again.

So all the more reason for re-instating the rank of commadore!

Freejack

12-25-2008, 08:35 PM

I myself was in the Navy and they do have a very valid point, the difference between a captain and a commanding officer is rank... for example a O-3 (LT) could be the commanding officer of a destroyer or smaller vessel, on the other hand an O-6 (Captain) is the captain of whatever vessel he has been ordered to be stationed on. Just an FYI to those creating the game based on current Naval Ranks... myself and the entire family cannot wait for this game to be released we will be dropping World of Warcraft for this.

All in all Great Job so far!!!

Honestly i would rather start the game as a non-ranked nobody, and earn the rank of commanding officer or captain and as a reward for whatever highest rank you can get either PvE or PvP, then you can build from a shuttle to a starship/flagship.

for example

E1 - starting out learning the scheme of things (Tutorial)
E2 - Next Phase of Missions
E3 - "
E4 - "
E5 - "
E6 - "
E7 - Chief Petty Officer Senior Enlisted, has availability to Certain Items Missions, or whatever cryptic wants
E8 - Senior Chief Senior Enlisted
E9 - Master Chief Petty Officer (there is also Fleet/Force Master Chief under this title, but they usually only have desk jobs at the pentagon)
E10 - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (or in this case Federation would take the place of the Navy)

Warrant Officers (these are Enlisted Officers, normally the individual that knows their job inside and out and are of a high enough rank to get commissioned as a Warrant Officer)

W2
W3
W4
W5

Officer's

O-1 Ensign
O-2 Lt JG (Junior Grade)
O-3 Lt
O-4 Lt CMDR (Commander)
O-5 Commander
O-6 Captain

(Optional Officer Ranks for those going above and beyond their mission objectives, or even PvP titles, which include special availability to certain types of ship's; Equipment etc..)

O-7 Rear Admiral Lower half
O-8 Rear Admiral Upper half
O-9 Vice Admiral
O-10 Admiral

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O-11 Fleet Admiral (this rank only given to Game Master's, Instead of the Normal Title of "Game Master")

** again these are just my suggestions, Enjoy!

You forgot 'Midshipman' or cadet (where ST strays from naval rank). A midshipman is an officer candidate enrolled in the Academy (or NROTC) and while serving on tours aboard ship they are below ensigns, but they are considered to outrank (and according to protocol require a salute from) all enlisted and warrant officers.

Optionally (or archaically), O-7 is equivalent to a Commodore where an O-8 would be simply titled Rear Admiral.

Spawk

12-25-2008, 08:44 PM

You forgot 'Midshipman' or cadet (where ST strays from naval rank) which would rank between W5 and Ensign. A midshipman is an officer candidate.

the actual rank of a midshipmen would be after all the enlisted ranks and just before ensign, those are the individuals in the NROTC at their local Universities (and NOT commissioned officers yet... And as a courtesy it is polite to salute them yes), but ONLY after four years of schooling/training before they go to the actual Naval academy, the Warrant ranks are more of a side order or "Optional Ranks" after the enlisted phase if you chose you could become an officer at which time you would go through OTC vice the Naval Academy, because your more "seasoned" than the new "Cadets" going in fresh after school.

But to add to your post "Cadet" and "Midshipmen" are actual ranks... its kinda like calling someone a novice or "Noob"

Freejack

12-25-2008, 08:45 PM

thats actually kinda of funny, i was once on the actual USS Enterprise, there was a three star admiral on board and our DivO (Division Officer) told us to address him as "Sir" or "Admiral" Never call him "Captain" even though he was in control of the ship, it is a sign of disrespect and by saying Captain to an admiral you would be verbally demoting a very high ranking Naval Officer, not good, because the brig or some kind of NJP (non Judicial Punishment) would be in your future.

That's just 'Captain's prerogative'. Semantics, really. The point being there is a difference between a Captain and a captain. :cool:

Spawk

12-25-2008, 08:48 PM

That's just 'Captain's prerogative' :cool:

you are very correct by saying that, some Admirals dont care what you call them, so long as it isnt anything derogatory.

Anichent

12-25-2008, 08:49 PM

That's just 'Captain's prerogative' :cool:

I disagree, Admirals are Admirals. We need only look to specific references in the different series to see examples of Admirals commanding ships yet being referred to as Admiral.

We shouldn't focus too much on the way the US Navy has worked or works now because this is a slightly different system.

Spawk

12-25-2008, 08:50 PM

That's just 'Captain's prerogative'. Semantics, really. The point being there is a difference between a Captain and a captain. :cool:

actually more or less a difference in "Being a captain" vice "Captaining a Vessel" (without holding the title of captain.)

Spawk

12-25-2008, 08:57 PM

I disagree, Admirals are Admirals. We need only look to specific references in the different series to see examples of Admirals commanding ships yet being referred to as Admiral.

We shouldn't focus too much on the way the US Navy has worked or works now because this is a slightly different system.

you are very correct and i apologize if i have stirred the pot, im just trying to make sense of the ST ranking system.

Flatfingers

12-25-2008, 10:25 PM

Instead of using the term "Captain", those of the community may respond to the term "Commanding Officer" better. I remember reading in the early FAQ "everyone will be a Captain". Personally I'm okay with that, however some are not, for whatever reason. So it may go over better, with the term Commanding officer.

I agree with that suggestion -- in fact, I made precisely the same suggestion a few months back in my thread, "Captain" vs. "commander": A Terminology Suggestion to Cryptic (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6312).

The thing a lot of people miss is that "captain" is a courtesy term used when addressing or referencing someone who has been assigned legal command of a vessel. And that usage is given in lower-case when written to distinguish it from the rank of Captain, which is not a courtesy term but an indicator of rank in a hierarchical organization.

To quote some examples I used before:

[T]here's a difference between being temporarily responsible for a ship's operation, and being the single officially designated "master and commander."

The person who is legally assigned as master of a ship will be given the courtesy title of "captain" in address and reference, even if they don't hold the rank of Captain in some official organization.

But someone who is only temporarily controlling the ship (such as an officer of the watch) is not given the courtesy title of captain. The commanding officer is still the commanding officer; that doesn't change even when someone else is given temporary responsibility for operating the ship. Therefore only the official commander is granted the courtesy title of "captain."

If there's an official change of assignment -- something like what we saw in the TNG episodes "Chain of Command, Parts I & II," when Captain Picard was officially relieved of his command of the Enterprise and that command was formally (and legally) passed to Captain Jellico -- then that new officer becomes the commander of the ship, and will be given the courtesy title of "captain" even if they don't hold the rank title of Captain.

This is why Lt. Cmdr. Hobson (eventually) referred to Lt. Cmdr. Data as "captain" at the end of the TNG episode "Redemption, Part II." Although Data was not a Captain in rank, because he had been officially assigned to the Sutherland as her commanding officer, he was entitled as a traditional courtesy to be addressed in speech and writing as "captain" of the Sutherland

So yes, it's correct that you call someone "captain" when they are legally the commanding officer of a vessel, but that does not imply that they hold the rank of "Captain." As I suggested to Cryptic, saying things like "you'll be the captain of your own ship" is guaranteed to confuse people who don't know this distinction; they're going to see the word "captain" (even if it's in lower-case) and leap to the unsupported conclusion that "OMG, every character will start with the rank of Captain!"

To try to minimize this, I proposed that Cryptic try instead to prefer phrases like the following, which are less confusing without becoming less correct:

"command your own ship"
"be the commanding officer of your own ship"
"be the commander of your own ship"
"As commander of your ship, you'll be able to..."So far Cryptic's PR folks keep using the unnecessarily confusing "captain" term, but there's always hope. :)

--Flatfingers

marscentral

12-25-2008, 11:55 PM

Guys, I don't think this is a difficult concept and Cryptic do explain it pretty clearly what they mean by captain. From the FAQ:

Q: Will everyone be the Captain of their own ship?
A: Yes, but you will have to earn the responsibility and skill to command larger and more powerful vessels. Remember, in Star Trek as well as naval tradition, whoever commands the ship is the "Captain," even if it is not your current rank.

How is that unclear?

Flatfingers

12-26-2008, 12:22 AM

How is that unclear?

If it was clear enough, why would people be misunderstanding it?

Saying "commanding officer" in the FAQ and other PR materials (instead of using the capitalized word "Captain" which suggests rank) costs only a few extra keystrokes, is correct, and reduces the chance of some people mistakenly believing that Cryptic is giving starting characters the rank of Captain.

Is this a big deal? Of course not -- it's trivial compared to some game design decisions. (And even those aren't exactly life-and-death in the Real World.) This is just a very minor suggestion for more accurately communicating a game feature, which Cryptic is obviously free to ignore.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll sleep just fine whichever way Cryptic chooses to go on this bit of terminology. :)

--Flatfingers

marscentral

12-26-2008, 12:41 AM

If it was clear enough, why would people be misunderstanding it?

--Flatfingers

Actually, I don't think I've seen a single post were someone didn't get the difference, unless they hadn't read the FAQ. I've seen plenty of people complain about being captain, but that's a whole other arguement. I think if you don't get that difference, you probably won't grasp it any easier by being called "commanding officer".

But you're right, it is a minor point.

Hyperion2206

12-26-2008, 01:58 AM

plus, The Federation is entering in a time of war again.

So all the more reason for re-instating the rank of commadore!

The rank of Commodore isn't used anymore according to memory alpha:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Commodore

So instead of beinga Commodre you'd now be a Rear Admiral Lower Half.

Freejack

12-26-2008, 03:44 AM

Actually, I don't think I've seen a single post were someone didn't get the difference, unless they hadn't read the FAQ. I've seen plenty of people complain about being captain, but that's a whole other arguement. I think if you don't get that difference, you probably won't grasp it any easier by being called "commanding officer".

But you're right, it is a minor point.

I think the issue arises when people might expect to start this game as a cadet/midshipman in the Starfleet Academy and then have to work their way up from there. They are still in the mindset that this will be a level-based MMO as opposed to an experience/skill based MMO.

In fact, Cryptic has said that we won't even be starting as Ensigns. We will all be in command of our own ship (making us captains), but we might be starting at a reasonable rank of Lieutenant.
:cool:

DerManiac

12-26-2008, 03:46 AM

The rank of Commodore isn't used anymore according to memory alpha:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Commodore

So instead of beinga Commodre you'd now be a Rear Admiral Lower Half.

Wrong. It is assumed that the rank isn't used anymore, because no Commodore has been shown other than in ENT and TOS. That doesn't mean that there is none. It is simply unknown, whether the rank is still used.

exactly, because we are going to have a medical officer and engineering officer assigned to us as "pets"

So we need to be calling it senior staff, not bridge crew.

But you are also going to have non-senior staff on your bridge, in engineering and hopefully in the infirmary. So none of the terms is 100% correct.

Freejack

12-26-2008, 03:52 AM

The rank of Commodore isn't used anymore according to memory alpha:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Commodore

So instead of beinga Commodre you'd now be a Rear Admiral Lower Half.

By the time I reach O-7, you can write whatever you want on my paycheck, but by all means everyone in my general vicinity will refer to me as Commodore! Why? Because at that point, I can command it.
:cool:

I would refuse a promotion to Admiral if it included the words 'rear' and 'lower half'. :rolleyes:

Admiral-Darren-Wright

12-26-2008, 04:16 AM

First of all, awesome job thus far with development. I can say,a long with many others that we're very anxious for the game to come out.

I do have a tiny suggestion. Instead of using the term "Captain", those of the community may respond to the term "Commanding Officer" better. I remember reading in the early FAQ "everyone will be a Captain". Personally I'm okay with that, however some are not, for whatever reason. So it may go over better, with the term Commanding officer.

I know there have been episodes done where an LT. or whomever happened to be on the bridge took command of the vessel...be it Enterprise,Voyager etc etc.

Anywho, keep it up...you guys are doing great. :D

Im not sure where you have got your information from,

NEWS FROM THE DEV'S - We will all start off in control/command of a small ship from which you can get better ships as you go through playing the game now being in control/command of the ship does not mean that you will start off as captian but it will be a stage where you can get to captian !

So for you to say that well all be captians is mistaken as we can all get to Captain but not from scratch and also you not wanting the captian to be knows as captian means your going against all the films and series of Star Trek and the legacy from Gene Roddenbury and his family and the STO game has been promised to stick to the legacy of the Star Trek empire from its beginning so you have came out with a stupid idea there tho im not saying al your ideas are stupid you seem a friendly happy nice guy and i hope to see you in game but that thread of yours wasnt thought about or put in the right way.

Admiral-Darren-Wright

12-26-2008, 04:22 AM

It was explained to Nog by O'Brien in DS9 that who ever is in command of the ship/base was referred to as Captain, regardless of rank...even if they were an Ensign.

In response to a different post that said there would only be one Captain so everyone knew who the boss was...in Star Trek 2-6 Spock was a Captain and from Star Trek 3-6, Scotty was a Captain so from Trek 3-6 there were two other Captains on the Enterprise besides Captain Kirk so while I think the response was good as a suggestion, it certainly doesn't follow what has been established in Trek.

It was said to him in encouragement when he was nervous to take the helm,

Senior Officers can command the Bridge but there not the Captian,

Like in ST VOYAGER, Ensign Kim, etc would be speaking with the alien hail then Janeway would come on the Bridge and they say Im the Captain etc.

DerManiac

12-26-2008, 04:32 AM

It was said to him in encouragement when he was nervous to take the helm,

No. It was said to him when Jadzia took command over the Defiant, and they all called her captian, since Sisko stayed with Admiral Ross, at the time when DS9 was occupied during the Dominion war. Nog was confused about why they called her captian, and then O'Brien explained to him that it is an old naval tradition to call whoever is in command of the ship "captian", regardless of their actual rank.

Admiral-Darren-Wright

12-26-2008, 04:38 AM

No. It was said to him when Jadzia took command over the Defiant, and they all called her captian, since Sisko stayed with Admiral Ross, at the time when DS9 was occupied during the Dominion war. Nog was confused about why they called her captian, and then O'Brien explained to him that it is an old naval tradition to call whoever is in command of the ship "captian", regardless of their actual rank.

Ok i see what you mean, i geuss i prefer the way Voyager does it than DS9 i watched both but i am VOYAGER / Janeway fan for ever lol

And she runs a tight ship, she would have them called by there actual rank and as im biast and love her id be doing the same, In fact in game ill be a Janeway Clone pretty much were quite alike anyway so its not that there would really be much differnce lol

Freejack

12-26-2008, 04:47 AM

There is a difference between "You have the conn" and "You are the captain". There was an episode of Voyager where Janeway and Chakotay beamed down to a planet and were infected in such a way that they could not return to the ship.

After exhausting all possibilities, Janeway relinquished command of the ship to Commander Tuvok, at which point he became captain of Voyager. He did not receive a promotion, he simply took over command and subsequenttly was addressed as Captain Tuvok.

Admiral-Darren-Wright

12-26-2008, 04:51 AM

Freejack

12-26-2008, 04:59 AM

He wasnt Captain just as he had the command codes

I won't argue with you. I'll leave it for the rest. :rolleyes:

_Pax_

12-26-2008, 05:28 AM

I agree with that suggestion -- in fact, I made precisely the same suggestion a few months back in my thread, "Captain" vs. "commander": A Terminology Suggestion to Cryptic (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6312).
The problem there?

Commander is ALSO a rank that someone could hold. :rolleyes:

_Pax_

12-26-2008, 05:37 AM

He wasnt Captain just as he had the command codes
The prior Captian and her first officer resigned their positions aboard Voyager. Thus, as per standard military procedure, "command devolvd upon Tuvok".

Pretty much permanently, I might add: normally it woudl have been "until Starfleet could assign a new commanding officer", but that would still be over 50 years in coming.

At that point, he became "Commander Tuvok, commanding the U.S.S. Voyager" and as such, entitled to the "courtesy promotion" of being addressed as the captain of Voyager.

Note, that would make him "Tuvok, captain of the U.S.S. Voyager" ... not "Captain Tuvok, of the U.S.S. Voyager". There is a difference - rather non-subtle to those who understand the tradition - between those two statements.

marscentral

12-26-2008, 06:13 AM

Note, that would make him "Tuvok, captain of the U.S.S. Voyager" ... not "Captain Tuvok, of the U.S.S. Voyager". There is a difference - rather non-subtle to those who understand the tradition - between those two statements.

I think you're at a point of splitting hairs, he is entitled to be addressed as "Captain Tuvok" despite not holding the rank. Picard showed that courtesy to a non-starfleet captain, Captain Okona, even though his ship only had him on it and was grossly inferior to the Enterprise. It's just a quirk of language. On the otherside, there are plenty of people who hold the rank that aren't in command of a vessel.

Hyperion2206

12-26-2008, 06:15 AM

Wrong. It is assumed that the rank isn't used anymore, because no Commodore has been shown other than in ENT and TOS. That doesn't mean that there is none. It is simply unknown, whether the rank is still used.

Well, if the rank was still used it would have been mentioned during TNG, DS9 or any of the recent movies, don't you think?

I guess the reason why the rank of "Commodore" isn't used any more because it doesn't exist anymore. When TOS was shot the rank still existed in RL, but now the rank is long gone so the writers replaced it with the current equivalent and that Rear Admiral Lower Half. At least that's my explanation why we don't see that rank anymore.:cool:

Freejack

12-26-2008, 06:27 AM

I got yer lower half, and it's hangin' right here! :D

It's fairly simple. On the open seas in the heat of battle, the men want to be led by a Commodore, not a lower-half Rear admiral.

But in time of peace, these lower halves want to be "Admirals" and the lower-half rear part is left out.

Anichent

12-26-2008, 08:46 AM

He wasnt Captain just as he had the command codes

When Kim, or Tuvok, or Paris took command of Voyager WHILE Janeway was still in command they were not referred to as captain. But when you are in command of the ship, such as when Voyager was going to procede to the Alpha quadrent without its Captain and XO, Tuvok became the CO of the ship.

1st: XO and CO are used because you don't have to be a Captain or Commander to be the commanding or executive officers.

2nd: When Tuvok commanded Voyager, when Data commanded the Sutherland, and when Jadzia commanded the Defiant they were all refered to as captain. An added example is when Riker became (and was reffered to as) captain of the Enterprise when Starfleet though Picard was assimilated, but he got no promotion.

3rd: When any officer had the bridge temporarily and were not assigned as CO of the ship, they were not referred to as captain, unless their actual rank was captain, such as when the Captain of the Cairo took command of the Enterprise temporarily as Picard was on a mission.

Hyperion2206

12-26-2008, 08:48 AM

Merius

12-26-2008, 08:55 AM

Its part of star trek canon - for Kirk and Picard anyway to be very passionent about being in command of their own starship - not being trapped behind some desk as an Admiral.

Kirk said himself do anything to stay on the bridge of your own ship.

In the game mechanics, they are going to reach a point where you are a high ranking captain, and in a time of war they may want you to take command of a group of ships. I also attribute this to taking command over a larger group of senior staff members.

So maybe the next step from captain will look like this:

Captain: 7 Senior Staff Officers: Large Ship:
-
Commodore: 11 Senior Staff Officers: Large Ship: + Small Ship
Now you can reassign some of your senior staff to the small ship - so that you have 7 senior staff on your large ship, and 4 senior staff on your small ship (one being a commander.)
Or:
Commodore: 11 Sneior Staff Officers: Large Ship: + Small Outpost
Now you can reassign some of your senior staff to the small outpost - so that you have 7 senior staff on your large ship, and 4 on your small outpost (one being a commander.)

From their start going into the admiral ranks.

onesoul1982

12-26-2008, 09:05 AM

It was just a suggestion guys

As for where I got my information, from the earlie FAQs and video interviews with Jack.

Thanks all for the feedback:D

Flatfingers

12-26-2008, 09:21 AM

Commander is ALSO a rank that someone could hold. :rolleyes:

That unconstructive objection was already raised and addressed in the previous thread as well.

--Flatfingers

Dahakra

12-26-2008, 11:23 AM

Most people don't know or forget that Commodore actually isn't a rank but a title. As long as you've been given command over a group of ships you are a Commodore, but as soon as these ships leave you're a "mere" Captain again.

And to be honest: I'd rather be an Admiral (even if it's just an O-7) then a Commodore!:D

Er no. Commodore is an actual Rank use in many modern Navies today, as well as Air Forces. Including my own country's (Ireland) navy, where in fact it is the most senior rank there is. Ceannasóir in Irish.
Rear Admiral Lower Half (O-7) is used in the U.S. Navy. It is not a different Rank to Commodore,it is simply a different Name. Having been originally Commodore Admiral (1981), then Commodore (late - 1981) and then Rear Admiral Lower Half (1985). These where changes in name not in rank.
As for the Title of Commodore,it is true that a senior Captain in charge of a squadron of ships is conferred the Honorary Title of Commodore the same way whoever is in legal command of a ship is refereed to as captain.

- Dahakra

DerManiac

12-26-2008, 01:05 PM

Well, if the rank was still used it would have been mentioned during TNG, DS9 or any of the recent movies, don't you think?

That's an assumption, but it doesn't proof anything.

I guess the reason why the rank of "Commodore" isn't used any more because it doesn't exist anymore. When TOS was shot the rank still existed in RL, but now the rank is long gone so the writers replaced it with the current equivalent and that Rear Admiral Lower Half. At least that's my explanation why we don't see that rank anymore.:cool:

According to your logic, there must be a mention of the rank "Rear Admiral Lower Half" for it to exist. I can't remember that rank being mentioned in any of the series, but I haven't seen all of them,so please enlighten me if I am wrong. So basically none of those two ranks has been mentioned in the series, which means both of them could exist - or just as well none of them.

I understand that considering the rank was removed from navy ranks after TOS, it is most likely that they removed it in the series as well. But one can not say that this is for sure. We simply do not know.

Most people don't know or forget that Commodore actually isn't a rank but a title. As long as you've been given command over a group of ships you are a Commodore, but as soon as these ships leave you're a "mere" Captain again.

Not exactly. In ENT Admiral Forrest is once shown in a flashback where he was refered to as "Comodore Forrest", but he wore 3 pins, just like later when he was an admiral. I'm not quite sure what that means, but at least he was not a "mere captain".